please help

[tricia56]

for the past week ever since I started to get the intrusive thoughts back every morning I wake up feeling panicky feeling im losing it going mad anxeirty thro the roof, I went to see my gp on tue and told her about the intrusive thoughts and how im feeling, she did say to try antidepressants but im so petriefd of taking them and don't really want to go down that root, and like ive said in my last posts i cant have have cbt nomore because I wont take meds, I dont know what to do anymore.the thinking im going mad its the feeling im loosing it and because of the intrusive thoughts i keep thinking what if they make me act on them that's how mind has been going all week and I don't know if its that that's making me feel the way i do. sorry for posting again but ive no one else to turn to for advice

[urbanhermit]

for the past week ever since I started to get the intrusive thoughts back every morning I wake up feeling panicky feeling im losing it going mad anxeirty thro the roof, I went to see my gp on tue and told her about the intrusive thoughts and how im feeling, she did say to try antidepressants but im so petriefd of taking them and don't really want to go down that root, and like ive said in my last posts i cant have have cbt nomore because I wont take meds, I dont know what to do anymore.the thinking im going mad its the feeling im loosing it and because of the intrusive thoughts i keep thinking what if they make me act on them that's how mind has been going all week and I don't know if its that that's making me feel the way i do. sorry for posting again but ive no one else to turn to for advice

Hi Tricia

I'm sorry to hear that you are having some intrusive thoughts. Like a lot of people on this forum, I've had similar feelings and they will pass.

I've managed to keep my anxiety in check by using CBT and haven't gone down the meds route, so cannot comment on the effectiveness of them but, please talk to your GP because, if the meds can help them and you can get some more CBT, then your therapist will be able to help you get off the meds.

It's a really difficult concept to grasp - I should know - but please remember your thoughts are just that - thoughts.

I've found it useful to take a step back when I've had unhelpful thoughts in the past to physically write them down and really question those thoughts.

Example:

I used to get anxious about my partner going away and would think that I'd be unable to cope and have physical symptoms because she wasn't there and wouldn't be there for a few days.

However, when I looked at it another way:

My partner going away means she gets a break from work, the issues we've had with our house and will get to spend time helping her parents which will make them happy.

When I 'chose' to think that way, rather than the unhelpful way, the anxiety went away.

You mention you have no one else to turn to, but you may like to contact No Panic on their helpline:

01952 680835 (It's a 24 hour recorded message that will help you calm down)

Try not to think too deeply about the future - just focus on being in the present, take some deep breaths in through the nose and out through your mouth. The anxiety cannot harm you, it's not the very pleasant but it will past.

Take care, Tricia.

Urbanhermit

[Goldfinch]

Hi Tricia,

Just wondered why you don't want to take meds? A lot of people find them really helpful - I know I have.

Take care, Goldfinch.

[nicnac1987]

Hi, I feel the same as you in the mornings as I dread all the thoughts and panic. I'm at my Whits end so I've started on ciltapram a week ago. So far I feel worse but they do tell me you have to stick with them and in a few weeks it will make it better and everyone reacts differently. I'm waiting for CBT as well but figured I needed something else to help me. I too was scared of anti depressants but I have to do it for my family and have research a lot of good things about them. I hope you find a way to help you.

[Davit]

Why would you need meds to do CBT. I did it it without, they are not a prerequisite but for many it does make it easier. Problem comes in when you decide to do just meds because they don't work for everyone. I am not the only one who can't do SSRIs, but it is rare. CBT does work if done right and stuck with it to the end. Part way only gives you coping skills. CBT is long and hard and definitely worth it, but there are other things that work in some people that can and actually should be tried first. These too though are usually guided, and so take time. I wonder how far you got in CBT. How much it would take to finish.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Tricia,

There is a thread by Tish on the Therapy board I think for Mindfulness apps. I started this through my therapists recommendation when my CBT was midway and it helped me far more than CBT in reducing my GAD and reducing my OCD rituals. My intrusive thoughts decreased and my attitude to them changed so I no longer reacted to them.

Its worth a try and the resources on there are free.

---------- Post added at 06:56 ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 ----------


Why would you need meds to do CBT.

Its after you have had CBT and they think you may not be able to progress with drug therapy alongside it.

[tricia56]

hi thk you all for replying bk to me, I was in such a mess yesterday so sorry for not getting replying sooner,i ended up foning the crisis team because i was feeling so over welmed feeling I was loosing it and very frightend because of the intrusive thoughts I was getting. they had a chat tome over the fone and made me feel a little bit better but they never told me why i was getting them and to fone them bk if I feel I cant cope with them. i just want to ask terry or davit if if maybe you could help in way as getting the feeling im loosing it and and keep thinking wat if the thoughts make me act on them when I get them my mind just spirals from there and then I start to think is it my mind trying to tell me something and am I really loosing my mind and that's when I get so scared sorry to keep asking for advice. I know you all are not medicaly trained but if i got a better understanding of why im they way i am as no one in the medical profession has done that with me i just think maybe i could move forward. thk you

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Tricia,

Here is a website that provides some very detailed explanations for the various forms of OCD:

http://www.steveseay.com/unwanted-thoughts-sensations-ocd-treatment/
http://www.steveseay.com/category/conditions/ocd/pure-o-symptoms/

There are some good articles on there explaining intrusive thoughts and what they are.

Some people see them as punishments or judgements of what they are truly like as opposed to what they know about themselves. This is completely untrue. These thoughts are no more a reflection of your "true self" just like how our anxiety symptoms are merely overexaggerated normal processes.

Intrusive thoughts occur in all people, its only the reaction that matters. If you react with emotion, you give them focus and the subconscious thinks they are valid so should be used again. I can say that by not judging or reaction to these thoughts, they have gone away or those that occassionally pop up no longer bring any anxious reaction.

Reducing overall anxiety can play a big part in this. So, work on relaxation techniques and try to bring those levels down because when they are high, they fuel everything else. I noticed I had less of them as my anxiety reduced even when I was still reacting to them and this is probably a good indicator that OCD is not my main problem, but GAD is.

You are not loosing your mind, it just feels that way. OCD can make you feel powerless to control your own body and mind. I knew nothing about OCD when mine developed but in reading about it, it helped with my worry because I knew I wasn't losing my mind.

I wonder whether intrusive thoughts develop based on what scares you the most? For me, it was largely about my parents suffering which is a massive problem in my eyes because I would do anything for them. I've seen people on here with kids who develop sexual or harm based forms about them and it naturally scares them to death because their kids are their whole world.

I don't know your theme(s) but perhaps yours is the same in that it is so scary because it is attacking an area of strong morailty?

You won't act on your thoughts. Why? Because you are so scared of them or disgusted in them, dependent on which form they take. This website isn't very good for OCD but if you look at places like OCD UK, they make a point of stating things like this and they deal with these issues a lot. OCD UK & OCD Action are very close to specialists at places like Maudsley so their views are based on their contact with these medical professionals.

http://www.ocduk.org/types-ocd

I think I might have said this before to you. I come from a pretty rough city. I've known nutters and they don't who they hurt. There is no anxiety in what they do and if there were, its only when they are in the dock trying to worm their way out of it. The same goes for sexual themes. Sexual predators do what they do because they enjoy it, they don't feel this disgust at the mere thought of it, they want those thoughts.

Now it is possible for people with OCD to have feelings of "liking" their thoughts. I've had those. However, afterwards you start questioning it and making yourself worse by thinking you are a monster. Monsters don't question themselves like that or cause themselves anxiety.

[tricia56]

hi terry thk you and ive been reading the ocd website and trying to understand it more,terry you mentioned wat scares you the most and what scares me most is getting depression and suicide as i have a sister who has sufferd with clinical depression since her early 20s and a drink and drug abuser she is 50 now and for the past 30yrs its always been me that has had to look after her and took the abuse off her when she was drunk she used to come to my home at all hours of the night and start on me infront of my children when they were young i had to take her to hospital every time she harmed herself and i even had to let live me with me on afew occasions and has tried to kill herself while being at my home as even tho ive got 2 other brothers and sisters who have washed their hands with her as both out parents have pas taway along time agoit has been left to me to deal with her over the yrs and also my son tried a 2yrsago to take his life and now i have a son inlaw who is is also suffering in a bad way with severe depression so i don't know if all that has had a bad effect on me and maybe this why im the way i am. Even now while ive been writing this post to you terry its made me feel quite anxiouse just talking about for some reason.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Thats OK Tricia, people talking about the subject of their intrusive thoughts often feel that way as it forces them to think about them when they are trying to keep them out of their minds all the time. You will see others say this on the OCD board.

I think you have been through a lot and there is a sizeable theme around depression and suicide so its bound to affect you. I used to work with a lady who had a sister who had attempted her life a few times due to trauma and losing her husband and I remember all the stress & worry it caused her, especially when the anniversary dates came around each year.

If you think about it logically, of course your biggest fears should scare you. Its common sense isn't it really? The problem with it in OCD is that it becomes too frequent & intense. The way out of it seems the opposite of how you should feel because you have to dispell it by not reacting, being non judgemental when examining it and treating it as a thought that means little more than one suddenly popping into your head that you need milk when you are in the supermarket.

When it comes to intrusive thoughts, acceptance is part of the approach. You have to accept these thoughts as coming from your subconscious due to your disorder and they don't realise the difference between right & wrong. The subconscious also doesn't understand the difference between what you don't want & what you do want, it just fires off what it believes to be relevant.

Another part of it is bringing down underlying anxiety levels as these will fuel these thoughts and also make your reaction worse which just reinforces them. So, try to use relaxation techniques and get exercise, preferably outside such as walking, to keep your body managing these emotions better.

Have a look at this too. Its a good example of how the subconscious views your reaction to distance yourself from intrusive thoughts:

http://media.psychology.tools/worksheets/english_us/thought_suppression_en-us.pdf?

http://media.psychology.tools/worksheets/english_us/intrusive_thoughts_brain_metaphor_en-us.pdf?

These thoughts can't make you depressed. Only you can do that by engaging with them and allowing them to affect you.

Suicide is not a guaranteed outcome of depression either so even if you did at some point experience depression, it is not in indicator that you would do this.

You might see some threads on here, on the HA or even OCD boards about people being afraid they are getting schizophrenia. This is due to intrusive thoughts. If you read those thread you will see them saying the same things as you, in fact what you are saying is what I see on probably all intrusive thought threads. I've been there myself, I remember how I questioned myself and started to think it was giving me "glimpses" into my real character but its not, its just some temporary faulty wiring!

[pulisa]

That's such good advice, Terry. Tricia, you've been through such a lot of trauma so it's no wonder you are terrified. Has anyone ever helped you to talk about your past experiences and how much of a legacy they have left you with? I don't mean CBT but actually talking about what has happened to you and the emotional burdens you have carried for many years?