View Full Version : Words
There isn't really a place to put this but since words can silently influence mood and anxiety i'm putting it here.
Most words have a definite meaning but a lot leave space for interpretation. And boy can that get you in trouble. Especially if the other persons mood is such they are just looking for a reason. But this although similar is about ourselves and our own interpretation. There are alternatives to some words that give a definite positive or negative cast to the sentence. Want to, instead of have to because have to can influence depending on mood and can then enhance that mood if it is negative. In some such as me have to is treated like want to because I truly want to.
Then there are words like Well that throw a definite question into the rest of the sentence and leave the statement open. eg: "I'm going shopping" is a definite. Where "well, I'm going shopping" can be interpreted as but "I don't want to", or "I'd rather do that" Sometimes well is needed for that very reason. Just keep in mind that it is negative.
Hope is another word we all use. Hope is what you have when you don't have an answer. I hope the store is open means it possibly might not be.
I hope I don't panic leaves the possibility you might. And increases the possibility you will by making that possibility the focus. So hope can be just a fact like the expression take care or it can be the key to subconscious negative thoughts. you can't always replace it with a positive word but you should when possible. I hope I can do this, take out hope and you are left with a positive statement. I can do this, I will do this.
Should is another of these words open to meaning. I should go shopping. Does that mean you will or you won't or you will but don't want to. This is too close to have to. Could on the other hand is closer to want to but still leaves the possibility of not without the guilt. To be totally positive you would say I will go shopping, like should it has no fixed time but is still positive.
I'm not saying we should not use these words (I just did) but we need to be aware of the negative side effect they can give our mood. Which snowballs and affects the mood. It becomes a vicious circle.
There are probably more words like this that influence us that we are not aware of.
Interesting thread, and come to think of it i use 'Hope' all the time.
I hope my alarm clock goes off
I hope we don't get stuck in traffic
I hope it's not raining tomorrow
I hope i don't catch that cold
Basically that's me worrying about all those things and yes it's negative thought.
Sam
Normally it is only mildly so but have you noticed if you are anxious how it balloons the anxiety. Coupled with other negative thoughts it can have quite a negative effect if a person isn't aware. The sub conscious affect I think is more damaging than the conscious.
Most definitely.
When i think about it, i never really say 'I will do this' or 'I'm going to do that'
It's always 'I should really' or 'I could but' and again a lot of 'I hopes'
Really interesting i never thought of how the words we use can have an affect on your mood. :lac:
Juliette14
22-04-15, 22:03
Same for "I am anxious" and "I feel anxious" , the first one is wrong to use as anxiety does not define a person, "I feel anxious" suggests that it is just temporary.
And "I am a mistake " and "I made mistake", the latest suggest that you take responsibility and will do something to correct it.
I recently downloaded a list of words expressing feelings and emotions, by reading the list I can better define how I am feeling at the time and helps me deal with certain difficult situations.
Emotions define forks in the path ways in out brains. An emotion can open a thought we don't want purely by sending the request for information down an unwanted path. The brain has no choice but to answer the request. It then needs a modified request to stop the unwanted thought. Repetition then makes the request and answer appropriate and gives it priority. The basis behind the CBT technique, changing negative to positive. But you still have to change the emotion.
PanicAttackGurl
23-04-15, 00:35
Same for "I am anxious" and "I feel anxious" , the first one is wrong to use as anxiety does not define a person, "I feel anxious" suggests that it is just temporary.
And "I am a mistake " and "I made mistake", the latest suggest that you take responsibility and will do something to correct it.
I recently downloaded a list of words expressing feelings and emotions, by reading the list I can better define how I am feeling at the time and helps me deal with certain difficult situations.
Do you have a link so others can download the list of words expressing feelings and emotions?
MyNameIsTerry
23-04-15, 06:46
There is an interesting article here about how some of this works at a chemical level and how to counteract it.
I haven't read into this to understand the background of those they are quoting or the studies, so I don't know how it may fit in, I'm sure Davit will have a better idea, but perhaps it presents a case for affirmations?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/words-can-change-your-brain/201208/the-most-dangerous-word-in-the-world
I did affirmations in my CBT. However, I was just told to use them throughout the day or when something seems to be causing me anxiety. I never found this useful unless I was having a better day in which case I would easily take them in. This article stipulates a minimum number required, so maybe that is the key and I wasn't told this?
When I used to attend the charity walk-in groups they often had a short session where we would take turns reading out sections of a module from CBT. We covered unhelpful thinking styles, Cognitive Distortions and use of language in one of them. We did this a fair few times and then would have discussions about how we feel about it, can we identify ourselves in it, etc.
I think Cognitive Distortion is linked to use of language because when we lean towards the negative we will typically use these keywords so they must reinforce our feelings in the distortion.
Here is a good explanation on Wiki that matches the ones we we handed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion
I bet you can identify some of your behaviours in there. I know I can. Being an obsessive, I have real trouble with "all-or-nothing-thinking". When I look back I can see myself becoming more & more controlling about my work and being tougher on people to deliver...I must have driven some of them to the brink!
Also, because we now know about use of certain key words and can understand how we use them in Cognitive Distortions and also understand how we should replace them with positives, we should also consider Cognitive Restructuring. This sits within "Cognitive Reframing" in positive psychology and is used in Cognitive Therapy and CBT. It allows us to understand our thinking patterns but more importantly how to change them. So, how does this tie in with Davits words? It makes sense that when we write down a problem it is going to use the negative words so in restructuring we need to be careful not to use them again and always aim to use the positive words. This was never explained to me in CBT but its obvious when you work through it in this logical order.
Here are some worksheets used in Cognitive Restructing. See what you think and how you could use them:
http://psychology.tools/cognitive-restructuring.html
Is that ok in your thread, Davit? It just seems a natural step onwards that still needs your words in there for maximum effect and I think this gets neglected as you don't see much of it on here.
Also, perhaps this thread should be in Top Tips?
The article on negative words is very accurate although I have been told for very strong negatives it can be up to ten positives. This is because all survival skills are negative so negatives get priority. A word that opens survival thoughts will stimulate more negative thoughts.This triggers the fear centre as seen by fMRI. A different machine than regular MRI.
It is fine by me, people need to know how this works, not just that it does. I would be willing to bet every negative word has a connection to something scary at some point. "No" probably has many scary associations. "Hope" failed probably makes it more negative than just having a chance of failure. I thought cognitive restructuring might have been a word of mine since I don't hear it that much in CBT even though it is a big part of it. It should be in top tips.
Something I have not heard any one but me say is "CBT is the hardest simple thing you will ever do". People who are recovered tell me this is very true.
---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:22 ----------
Cognitive restructuring as described on that site is exactly as I learned it and part of CBT as I know it.
MyNameIsTerry
23-04-15, 07:40
A lot of CBT is simple. A lot of it is good old fashioned common sense being explained in a way that we can understand its meanings.
I've posted links to worksheets of that psychology website on here a lot. Its pretty good. It does worry me that so many people don't seem to work on things like Thought Records as they are very relevant and they rarely seem to get a mention. It makes me wonder how much CBT is getting stripped down.
Are there any particulat words that are considered very strong? Is there a breakdown somewhere, maybe a table showing the strength of the category? It makes sense in that not all stimili are equal e.g. a small animal vs. a big toothy one or something with limited damage capability vs. something poisonous. You would expect stronger chemical reactions otherwise we would react the same no matter what the threat. In modern terms, a bloke who fancies a fight with you vs. a mugger with a knife. Big difference so stronger survival reaction required.
How does that tie in with suppression? Just thinking about such as dangerous occapations. Is it really suppression or just greater control through positive psychology?
Does memory also play a part with this. Certain words can become a problem, there is an OCD thread with someone like this as you know. Is it that via the neuroplasticity process it links memories to these words, which I am assuming will be based on stronger emotional response? The article hints at this where it says we should avoid creating a negative memory but doesn't seem to explain that further.
Juliette14
23-04-15, 13:19
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Do you have a link so others can download the list of words expressing feelings and emotions?
I have just typed on Google "list words expressing feelings emotions" and I found many results.
Examples :
http://www.sba.pdx.edu/faculty/mblake/448/FeelingsList.pdf
http://www.psychpage.com/learning/library/assess/feelings.html
---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------
Emotions define forks in the path ways in out brains. An emotion can open a thought we don't want purely by sending the request for information down an unwanted path. The brain has no choice but to answer the request. It then needs a modified request to stop the unwanted thought. Repetition then makes the request and answer appropriate and gives it priority. The basis behind the CBT technique, changing negative to positive. But you still have to change the emotion.
I agree with that. By trying to pinpoint the emotion which in my case is often irrational when anxious, I can correct it, make it more rational/appropriate.
PanicAttackGurl
23-04-15, 16:15
Thank you to MyNameisTerry and Juliette14 for the useful information.
While my printer is busy printing the information I might add that I had previously came across a list of positive words that I posted on another forum similar to this forum. There was no description of how to use these words on a daily basis to change how one negative word in front of it would damage the process to being something positive, so I have not had an opportunity to use the words. I have used "I want to" suggested by Davit on many occasions, but in normal daily life sometimes find myself back sliding with negative words/thoughts.
Yesterday I read an article from Time Magazine mentioning how the brain can rewire itself also known as neuroplasticity. It also mentioned the fMRI scan as one of the articles mentioned in MyNameIsTerrys links and also mentioned by Davit. I've attached the link to article below.
http://palousemindfulness.com/docs/brain-rewires.pdf
Of all the useful information I have found and read over the past year I think using words in the way Davit describes will be beneficial.
Words are only as strong as your interpretation. Like the word hope. It can be interpreted either way depending on what is influencing you.
Poor CBT would be better if they would quit selling it. The buyer gets to dictate what they will buy and in todays world it has to be fast first, convenient and pretty. CBT is none of these, so it got stripped. Badly stripped to fit the buyers needs. The sellers said lets cut to the chase and give them the end at the beginning so they can skip all that filler. After all if you do something often enough you will get used to it. Todays high stress world doesn't leave time to do exposure to every thing that causes anxiety. And the new CBT requires this to fit the buyers needs. So we have a disposable product, use it and discard it and get another when you need it. Never mind that the accumulated time will be more than the real deal would have been, the promise is that you can have it now. Sounds like the reason for pills too doesn't it.
Maybe because I'm crippled enough I can't afford to do things over and over has allowed me to take my time and fix it once only. And it is fixed. Maybe because I need my whole world is why pills don't do anything for me.
Real CBT with all it's explanations and exercises is only for those willing to follow it and put in the time. It can be done without medication because you won't need pills protecting your back. But you will need time, something people won't give up. People are so afraid they will die before they have lived. (Health anxiety) Yet they run the clock down trying to prevent this, wasting their life away. Need I mention pills that let you sleep but not remember positives. For all you men with ED. Pain and pleasure sensors are very close together, what blocks pain blocks pleasure. As the song goes, "I could have skipped the pain but I'd have missed the dance". Anxiety has a flip side, with real CBT you learn how to flip it over in any situation. And you then learn how to have it not visit in the first place. A far cry from the buyer controlled repetitive get by CBT people are getting because that fits the bill.
I used to fall trees for a living. Unconscious survival skills did a lot of the work for me and I survived longer than the average expectancy for a faller. Many a time I reacted just before tragedy without any clear reason. Driving home, still buzzing with too much information in my head I would look at the forest and see the lean on the trees not the beauty. It passed in time and I could see the beauty again. But I was happy and enjoyed my job so all that negative survival stuff never surfaced. I'd shop on the way home in a hurry so never had time to panic. Besides I was still in suppression mode. Still packing a big stick to keep the wolves at bay. Home was where I could let it all go. I was good, and in a good stand I could put a tree down every two minutes. There isn't time to think or worry. We are perfectly capable of doing survival things without them coming to the surface. We are supposed to do it that way. The conscious is supposed to be just for positives. So why do we keep putting negatives in it. External stimulus? Why aren't we blocking it? Peer pressure? Ah, number one reasons for core beliefs. So it boils down to thought processes.
So CBT is a simple thing, but doing it every day till it is automatic and the thought process is what you want is so hard to do. It wouldn't be if not for the stumbling blocks and CBT that is only part CBT is one of them. Pills that block your ability to experience new things is another. But still conditioning is the worst. There is help, you just need to find it. Sometimes like a cat, it is staring at you and you can't see it.
Memory plays a big part. Memory tells you you might have a chance with a drunk in a fight and you might have help, but a knife, not a chance and you are on your own. So different reaction and different reaction from different people based on what they have in memory. Maybe you have the adrenaline to chance wasting a good leather jacket to take down a mugger. Memory plays a part in all our actions so you don't want anymore negative ones than you absolutely need for survival. But negative tells you what your chances would be in a fight. They are like magnets, they attract other ones. You do need some but mostly you need control over them. This is conditioning, Cognitive restructuring.
This thread is going to get buried and it is a shame because it has some useful information in it.
MyNameIsTerry
24-04-15, 06:26
Move it to a slow moving board like Top Tips, Davit. Those boards are so slow that threads can be on page 1 for months.
---------- Post added at 06:26 ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 ----------
Thank you to MyNameisTerry and Juliette14 for the useful information.
While my printer is busy printing the information I might add that I had previously came across a list of positive words that I posted on another forum similar to this forum. There was no description of how to use these words on a daily basis to change how one negative word in front of it would damage the process to being something positive, so I have not had an opportunity to use the words. I have used "I want to" suggested by Davit on many occasions, but in normal daily life sometimes find myself back sliding with negative words/thoughts.
Yesterday I read an article from Time Magazine mentioning how the brain can rewire itself also known as neuroplasticity. It also mentioned the fMRI scan as one of the articles mentioned in MyNameIsTerrys links and also mentioned by Davit. I've attached the link to article below.
http://palousemindfulness.com/docs/brain-rewires.pdf
Of all the useful information I have found and read over the past year I think using words in the way Davit describes will be beneficial.
Thanks for posting this, I've read some of this before as Wiki quote it if you read their Mindfulness page.
Things have even moved on from the Mindfulness study. More recently I have a few articles that show:
1) during scanning it could be seen that areas of the brain related to fear (e.g. the right Amygdala) were less active and areas related to compassion were more active.
2) before & after scanning of MBSR participants after 8 weeks showed a decrease in the volume of structures in the fear centre and an increase in positive structures and could also inlcude the insula with further study.
So, they have since found that its not just the pre-frontal cortex (the conscious, cognitive mind) that experiences changes during and increased ability to activate them but also changes to the subconscious areas of the brain in the limbic system at a physical level via neuroplasticity.
MBSR has a lot of studies out there including in symptom management e.g. asthma, cancer, etc. CBT is also part of cancer treatment options, most likely for the same reasons.
So, one question to consider is whether CBT has the power to make further changes to the subconscious. I don't know if they have done before & after scans for that, but they have for MBSR and that shows it working long term.
So, if Mindfulness has the ability to work on both areas, it makes a lot of sense to use it.
Another form is Loving Kindness meditation, another school of Buddhism, which are more about forgiveness of oneself and directing love inwards. There are studies/articles out there for that.
An older study over 8 weeks but showed no chance to the inula whilst showing changes several areas including the hippocampus (which Davit can explain far better than I ever could!):
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110121144007.htm
This study went on to prove it was Mindfulness that caused the changes:
http://www.feelguide.com/2014/11/19/harvard-unveils-mri-study-proving-meditation-literally-rebuilds-the-brains-gray-matter-in-8-weeks/
http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to-a-better-brain/
Some evidence highlighted by one of the UK's long running mental health charities under a name they use for mindfulness (they are the Mental Health Foundation):
http://bemindful.co.uk/mbsr/mbsr-evidence/
A compilation as a springboard if you are looking for studies:
http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/opus/issues/2014/spring/sethi
So, going back back to the subject of words, Loving Kindness might be a way to use an exercise to concentrate on it because I'm using it will be using internal dialogue within meditation. Mindfulness is practiced outside of meditation as well, thats the idea really so you do it as much as possible, so does Loving Kindness allow for the same so that you can spend time using positive language throughout your day? Since Mindfulness includes elements of non judgemental focus you will be using a more neutral position to view thoughts, feelings, sensations & emotions and the internal dialogue will reflect that e.g. its just a thought.How does this tie in with the words already discussed or known by you, Davit?
MyNameIsTerry
25-04-15, 07:35
Does positive self talk fit int with this, Davit? Does negative self talk reinforce the very things we are trying to escape from within the CBT landscape e.g. reinforcing core beliefs that are skewed to the negative?
Well both yes.
The mind can only use what it has in memory. It can use the senses to experience something but what it does with that experience depends on what is in memory. Also, last entered first accessed, so when you look at something it compares it to what you have in memory or if nothing explains it then it uses semantic memory, also called associated memory to make a decision about it. it also sends it for a survival check. Semantic memory is where we store what things are. If what we were looking at brought up the thought, how does that work it would go to procedural memory, but still do a survival check to see if it is dangerous. So positive self talk would go into the appropriate memory and also not set off the fear centre so that the thought doesn't get recorded as a fear trigger where negative self talk would do that, basically putting a flag on that situation. Positive self talk would fit under cognitive restructuring as changing a negative to a positive. In actuality what it does is put the positive thought on the top of the pile where if you do this a few times it becomes appropriate and the mind can only use appropriate. So if you think negative as self talk the mind will take that for appropriate and use it. This is how core beliefs are built. As I stated in another thread, you can not delete core beliefs, you can only bury them so you don't use them in which case memory finds them not appropriate and no longer uses them. It really is simple, the hard part is holding and using the positive self talk long enough for it to become appropriate. Doubt ruins this attempt pretty fast. I don't know if repetitively not doing something OCD would work like this or if the compulsion would block doing it. Obsessions and compulsions are going to interfere as bad as doubt. My problem with exposure therapy as CBT is that it is to easy to throw in the negative self talk, I have to, or worse still I don't want to. This totally destroys cognitive restructuring.
---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------
Every neuron in the brain is linked to a thousand others and these are called clusters. When a thought is strong or has priority it doubles up the pathway reducing resistance and making the thought faster. This is a basic law of electrical resistance. so a positive thought on a doubled up pathway can override a negative one on a single pathway.
The FMRI (functional magnetic resistance imagery) shows this doubling up of pathways with repetitive use. So in normal use a lot of information does not get where it is going because another beats it too it. An article on this said with cognitive restructuring that a positive thought saying this is wrong on a twinned pathway could beat the OCD impulse to the centre for action and override it. But it has to be cognitive restructuring and as we have seen, not all CBT is that. Mindfulness focusing on the thought will twin the pathway and do the same thing as cognitive restructuring in that they are both strengthening a neural pathway. Mindfulness possibly more so since you are observing a falsehood not just thinking it is one. Although tests did show thinking finger movements got the same reaction on the FMRI as actually doing them. I can't try this because I don't have OCD.But I know that some negative thoughts come up and go nowhere now. The same with the urge to cry at some situation but not actually doing it. Like the thought gets stopped half way because something more appropriate happens. This could change the whole practice of CBT and make it work for more than just anxiety and panic. But first therapy has to become more in depth than it is.
Very few are interested in this so I'm going to drop it. From what I can see people here are satisfied with their pills and pain so why rock the boat. CBT as I know it does work. I can't understand why anyone would want to do anything else. Anyone who wants to learn more about CBT can PM me.
Well, Davit, for someone who has dealt with all their issues you are quite quick to take offence. People can take or leave your information and there is no time limit.
Juliette14
26-04-15, 23:37
Please Davit do not drop it, there is so much to learn from you.
Pulisa
I'm not offended, I'm not sure what I am but I feel I'm wasting time bumping this information up if no one wants it. Besides it isn't my information, The majority is from my Therapist who like me pushes CBT instead of pills. She feels it would be nice to fix people before the Doctors fill them up with pills instead of after. But that isn't the case.
And you are right, there is no law says you have to read it, or do it, it was always an option and still is, and it looks like you did read it but had no comment. Cognitive restructuring does work. I don't like to use the word CBT any more because the vast majority of what passes for CBT is not even close. You can do cognitive restructuring on your own, all it costs is time. I know from PMs that people are doing just that with success. It will take time but I know they will be able to get off their meds. How many posts here are bout side effects. I took the pills, I know about the side effects, and I know about addiction. Never again will I use them and because of cognitive restructuring I never will have to. I'm free and clean and have been for over five years. Who else has managed to stop the pills with out first replacing it with some form of cognitive therapy and not relapse. At the very least my kidneys and liver don't have to flush out CBT every day.
And this is not venting, don't take me wrong it is just facts. I like to deal with facts because then at least I know what I'm dealing with.
I've been retired for fifteen years with nothing better to do than study. Knowledge is power.
But yes, everyone has an option including me.
Juliette14
I'm not going anywhere, I like it here, the stress is good for exposure. People are asking about an alternative. Change takes time.
MyNameIsTerry
27-04-15, 07:07
Part of the problem Davit, is that NMP is heavily geared towards HA if you look at the thread/post counts and the numbers viewing the forums throughout the day. They may not use the Panic Disorder board much, so you are likely to be getting less hits than you would and with the title not saying its a help thread, people may not realise.
So, it will get swallowed up on here eventually. People searching the site for things may also use the board name in their search so if they are searching the Therapy board, for instance, they are going to miss all of this.
This would be a shame because whilst we do talk a lot across many threads, I know I don't tend to see too many long running support threads and not many discussion style threads where we spend ages getting into the meaty stuff. I think we should be doing more of this, picking and concept and people discussing it. I think NMP lacks that.
Forum comes from the Roman. It was a place of support but also a place of debate. I don't mind if I get the thumbs down I'm not standing in the coliseum. I wonder how many people have done something other than meds or even with meds. Even if it didn't work. When my therapist said I should do this, (actually she said I should get my masters but I don't want it that bad) she said don't try to win them all. Some people will be on meds for ever. And it isn't always there choice. Some people have more stress in their life than anyone could handle. So pills it is. At least there are choices if people want to try something alternative. And there is information if they want it. They don't need to post to get it so who knows how many are reading. Well actually it does say on the page. Right now I'm the only one.
At least there is some action here, last site I was on was dying pretty fast.
MyNameIsTerry
27-04-15, 09:34
It says next to the thread if you want to see how many have ever read it at least once.
"Friends, countrymen and Pompeiians, lend me your feet"
"Lend me your feet, don't you mean ears?"
"No, I want their support so I need their arches"
:roflmao:
I'm sure people will keep reading it. It just might need the odd bump to keep it up with it being on a problem board.
I like having a good debate anyway, I used to be on a forum that wasn't related to health and there was a lot of that going on. It keeps the mind healthy!
I'm not on pills and I have an anxiety disorder/OCD/ED plus I care 24/7 for my autistic daughter. My point is I don't have all the time in the world to study all the info on here and I suspect it would all be too "deep" for me anyway. I know that there's no quick fix but for me there has to be something inbetween these two extremes.
I do respect your profound knowledge, Davit but my brain can't process it. For me simple strategies work well.
Pulisa
I have an anxiety disorder too, and like you will always have it. It could come back anytime which is why I don't believe in exposure therapy as a CBT cure. CBT as I know it is very simple and in steps that can be done at ones own pace. With it you don't move on to the next step till the one you are doing is well established. There is nothing to fill out every day. Like Mindfulness there is a self check each morning to see what coping skills you will use. This becomes subconscious later, and at this point a person starts the search for why the triggers are happening. There is no "off the deep end exposure" No adding stress to see if you can get used to it. That is old school and most of the time doesn't work. Once a person knows what triggers their anxiety they can go about changing the though to the triggers so the trigger gets a different reaction. This is cognitive restructuring. Once this is done and only then a person does exposure to make sure the reaction to the trigger is what you want it to be. These are all simple strategies done in very small steps and set aside when there are more important things to do. They are never done during the evening when they could activate anxiety. I did mine when I was weeding my garden and during meals or taking a break. Most of this type of CBT is repetitive contemplation asking the question, is this thought right or wrong. If it is wrong, what would be the right one. All the rest of the information is for people like me and Terry who want to know why. But it is not necessary to know why to do CBT it just makes it easier knowing why anxiety is there and why the coping skills work. You are probably doing most of this on your own already. As Terry said in one of his posts this is common sense. As for deep, It might seem so, mostly it is different than we were brought up to think. Anxiety doesn't just happen, there are very good reasons mostly due to survival. Knowing these reasons makes it easier to accept and ignore. But even more so to change your thinking towards them so they don't cause anxiety. So many CBT programs never address this so they don't work.
---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 ----------
Friends, Romans, countrymen lend me your years I'm tired of being old.
PanicAttackGurl
28-04-15, 03:32
Using words in the proper context, or as Davit is suggestion in a positive manner, instead of a negative or neutral is not as complicated as it seems.
I have been panic free aside from a medication induced panic attack for a good while now. I do however suffer from anxiety and many other illnesses including sinus tachycardia which in itself feels like a panic attack non-stop if I allow it. Now, take a minute to dissect that last sentence. "If I allow it" were the key words.
I'm a researcher by nature because of all the illnesses I have and have read at least 100+ books on anxiety/panic disorder, and over a thousand articles on all the acronyms that are posted about on this site and did the self help CBT on another forum.
Now, after following this post I am going to research Cognitive Restructuring, as I have not heard this mentioned before. Alas, I will be a scholar before my next birthday.
P.S. Enough with the acronyms already. My brain wants to type WTH and IDK every time I read another that is unfamiliar. just an FYI. I know I am guilty of it in my post above and in this edited section.
MyNameIsTerry
28-04-15, 07:44
P.S. Enough with the acronyms already. My brain wants to type WTH and IDK every time I read another that is unfamiliar. just an FYI. I know I am guilty of it in my post above and in this edited section.
Sorry, I meant No More Panic above :winks::D
The fact you can't recall hearing about Cognitive Restructuring is worrying given you have done a Computerised Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CCBT) course. Davit is always saying how CBT discussed on here seems to be watered down. I've never used the CCBT versions but my therapy was light on all this too.
---------- Post added at 07:44 ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 ----------
I'm not on pills and I have an anxiety disorder/OCD/ED plus I care 24/7 for my autistic daughter. My point is I don't have all the time in the world to study all the info on here and I suspect it would all be too "deep" for me anyway. I know that there's no quick fix but for me there has to be something inbetween these two extremes.
I do respect your profound knowledge, Davit but my brain can't process it. For me simple strategies work well.
Hi Pulisa,
We used to discuss 1 module a week at the charity walk-ins and this was one of them called "Recognising Unhealthy Thinking".
It was about 3 sides of A4 but most of it was dedicated to Cognitive Distortions. Language is very important in those too but they are a larger area in that they probably sit above the language one which could appear in any of them as an element contributing to the distortion.
When it came to the language issue only, they had it under "Should/Must/Ought to, thinking". This is what they said and I've encased it in quote marks so it stands out more. .
Should/Must/Ought to, thinking: there are always options, it is your right to choose and make decisions. However, using shoulds/musts/and ought to, suggests that you haven't and that you must obey a rigid set of rules.
When applied to yourself, the emotional consequence is guilt.
Examples - 'I should visit my parents more often'.
'I must finish decorating the house'.
When directed to others the consequence is - anger, frustration and resentment.
Examples - 'My Mother should be more understanding'.
'My boss ought to appreciate me more'.
Whereas, using the word could - implies choice.
We used to then discuss this and it did seem to make sense to us. I think it probably helps to make it bite-sized like this with examples so that people can see how they may be using them.
Yes I think that this was probably the first CBT "lesson" I was taught. Of course in life there are things that you should/ought to/do. In a perfect world we would all be Cognitally(sic?) Restructured but this all sounds a bit too Gwyneth Paltrow-y doesn't it?:D
For me personally I need simple strategies to improve the quality of my life. Too much information just confuses me but that's just me as I have a very demanding lifestyle. All credit to those who have gained expert knowledge-I think you have far more knowledge than those practising in mental health fields today.
I agree about bite size. Also don't skip. Ever since Bill Wilson designed the twelve step AA system we have been trying to make CBT a twelve step also.The other site I was on was a twelve week twelve step CBT program and it was good as is but was missing a lot and twelve weeks isn't enough to absorb especially as it isn't guided. It also is based on exposure therapy with some cognitive practice thrown in. This just is not enough to be affective. People fail at exposure and drop out right there. They don't realize there is an option. There is more than one way to skin a cat (crawler tractor, not puddy cat) And if something isn't working they should ask why. They might need to do it a different way or they might need different coping skills.
MyNameIsTerry
28-04-15, 09:02
It probably matters more when concerning a situation that could be anxiety provoking. I'm not sure, one for Davit really.
Funny thing is, that never got a mentioned in my CBT. I picked it up after I finished from the groups that the therapist recommended I join!
Some things work better for others. Some people find it easier to respond to behavioural methods or see more from them. I've always struggled with the cognitive side to be honest. I can understand it but to get it into my head for it to work is hard because I'm analytical and part of that means I will tear up strategies to understand them which can result in the internal voice "its only words". Science proves it can work but I've spent over a decade questioning what could work and its hard for me to change that behaviour to fit therapy. I'm open minded but critical!
I've always thought you were demanding, Pulisa :winks::D
In my booklet that I wrote because a dear friend who used to have Agoraphobia asked me to the first thirty six pages are a simple description of what panic attacks are and what to do about them, there is some humour to make it easy reading and a few diagrams. The last twelve pages are technical and can be skipped. It is by no means a CBT course, just information and mostly because it saves a lot of time trying to explain things. If a person wanted to expand their knowledge they could go to the internet and look up things like say core beliefs. They are not particularly complicated to understand. I give it to people who have no idea what they are dealing with. Partners of people with anxiety can benefit from knowing what is wrong with their partners. None of us want to be thought crazy because we are not.
PanicAttackGurl
28-04-15, 21:26
No offense was meant on the use of acronyms. My apology firstly. The comment was actually referring to all of the posts in other sections of the the forum.
In the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy course I did, it never referred to Cognitive Restructuring. It was a cut dry this is what you read, this is your homework for the week. I did throw myself into it and diligently did the work required. I also went back and did it a second time for good measure in case I missed anything "cognitively speaking". It is a good course, but not meant for people who get easily frustrated with themselves, their success or lack thereof, and give up before finishing.
As for the use of words, I think the use of more positive statements is healthy and helpful. As is the example posted by MyNameIsTerry on the Should/Must/Ought to thinking.
MyNameIsTerry
02-05-15, 11:45
No offense was meant on the use of acronyms. My apology firstly. The comment was actually referring to all of the posts in other sections of the the forum.
In the Cognitive Behavioral Therapy course I did, it never referred to Cognitive Restructuring. It was a cut dry this is what you read, this is your homework for the week. I did throw myself into it and diligently did the work required. I also went back and did it a second time for good measure in case I missed anything "cognitively speaking". It is a good course, but not meant for people who get easily frustrated with themselves, their success or lack thereof, and give up before finishing.
As for the use of words, I think the use of more positive statements is healthy and helpful. As is the example posted by MyNameIsTerry on the Should/Must/Ought to thinking.
I was only joking, no need to apologise, I think we all know what any of them mean in this thread. I can remember joining and thinking "what the hells BDD, BPD, etc?" I had to use Google a fair bit at first!
Maybe in that course they were trying to keep the jargon out? I prefer to know some of it but some people can be intimidated by it which may be why. Did it actually show the detail in Cognitive Restructuring without mentioning it?
I guess they are quite limited with an online course so they have to decide the best fit and its not going to work for everyone, they never do no matter what the subject when its a diverse one with many inputs.
I used to write a lot of training guides & process maps in my last role. Some areas had so much detail that the guides would have ended up so large they would have been hard to use. Modular tends to work but sometimes even the modular process maps can get big, especially if you are documenting an industry process with lots of parties involved with multiple processes that can feed in based on a variable.
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Davit,
This might be useful in explaining how words can influence mood:
http://www.psychology.tools/cross-sectional-formulation.html
This one is like the above but also involves a situational trigger and a core belief stage (with a link to schemas in):
http://www.psychology.tools/belief-driven-formulation.html
It would be useful to understand how the use of words can influence a core belief which then influences the use of words in the thought process which then impacts on the rest.
PanicAttackGurl
02-05-15, 20:35
I was only joking, no need to apologise, I think we all know what any of them mean in this thread. I can remember joining and thinking "what the hells BDD, BPD, etc?" I had to use Google a fair bit at first!
There are a few new acronyms showing up more frequently. I have adjusted to using Google to research although one should know that MBCT is not just mindfulness based cognitive therapy. If the government is tracking my search history they will perhaps be concerned about the nato ammo I clicked on in my search. :roflmao:
If you are interest in viewing the site for CBT MyNameIsTerry the link is attached below this sentence.
http://www.paniccenter.net
Hopefully I don't get my hand smacked for attaching it, but it is a free CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) program. This is the program I used for CBT and it worked for me. To answer your question, yes, there is cognitive restructuring but it is not worded as such. They left the "jargon" out and put it all in layman's terms.
I'm all for jargon-free vocabulary. If I'm going to be Cognitively Restructured I'd want to have the process explained in good old fashioned plain English:D. I'm a linguist by trade but don't speak psychologuese...
PanicAttackGurl
02-05-15, 20:54
I'm all for jargon-free vocabulary. If I'm going to be Cognitively Restructured I'd want to have the process explained in good old fashioned plain English:D. I'm a linguist by trade but don't speak psychologuese...
:yesyes:
I agree with you even though I have a medical background and a good memory of my medical terminology, I prefer it simple, but can keep up with the intellectual conversations as needed (if I decide to) :D
Thanks for the laugh for using the word psychologuese. I needed that word today and the laugh.
Did you note the interconnection between all parts. each can and does affect the other. The thing that is not obvious is the fact that all are in memory, even in the case of panic attacks, situation can be from memory too. Changing memories function can change any corner and will affect the others. EG: positive thought will change the reaction to the situation and leave a memory to draw on that affects mood and reaction and ultimately core beliefs and mood again, because they are related, nothing changes except you add a different memory and a different code to access it. (positive thought verses the old thought), Same area of the brain same trigger but now two memories and two access codes. Keep thinking positives and you reinforce the positive memories, not by adding memories if they are the same but by strengthening the pathway. I've mentioned this before somewhere, doubling the pathway increases the speed of access two fold, basic principle of any electrical impulse, milli amp to mega amp. So thinking positive to a situation gets to the reaction centre before the negative thought can even if it starts first.
Repetition makes the thought appropriate and the negative code no longer applies, The memory isn't gone but because we store things in pieces it can't be accessed without a code to put it together. So it never comes up again. This is the difference between cognitive restructuring and coping. One builds tolerance, which is fine and you know that can get you through some tough situations, but there are always after affects. The other removes the affects of the trigger so there is nothing to tolerate and no after affects. This is the difference between my CBT and most others, which are not really CBT but exposure therapy. Which is why all my triggers get a different reaction than they used to. Which is why there are no more panic attacks unless I go open that negative access code which I have no reason too.
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Sorry, Should have mentioned I was talking about the URLs Terry posted.
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Thing with cognitive restructuring is how can you do it if you don't understand how it works, It would be like waking up in Bagdad naked.
I'm from that same site and the course is good as far as coping goes and their exposure therapy is not off the deep end therapy but as close to cognitive restructuring they got was telling you to challenge thoughts and change the negative ones to positive but there is no explanation of how or why. It is Canadian, Panic Centre beta 3.0
MyNameIsTerry
03-05-15, 06:32
Here is a few that NICE mentioned in their CCBT review:
Panic/Phobia
FearFighter http://www.fearfighter.com/
Depression
Beating the Blues http://www.beatingtheblues.co.uk/
COPE http://icope.nhs.uk/therapy-informat...-therapy-ccbt/
Overcoming Depression (not sure whether this one is still going)
OCD
OCFighter, previously known as BTSteps http://www.ocfighter.com/
---------- Post added at 06:18 ---------- Previous post was at 06:00 ----------
Did you note the interconnection between all parts. each can and does affect the other. The thing that is not obvious is the fact that all are in memory, even in the case of panic attacks, situation can be from memory too. Changing memories function can change any corner and will affect the others. EG: positive thought will change the reaction to the situation and leave a memory to draw on that affects mood and reaction and ultimately core beliefs and mood again, because they are related, nothing changes except you add a different memory and a different code to access it. (positive thought verses the old thought), Same area of the brain same trigger but now two memories and two access codes. Keep thinking positives and you reinforce the positive memories, not by adding memories if they are the same but by strengthening the pathway. I've mentioned this before somewhere, doubling the pathway increases the speed of access two fold, basic principle of any electrical impulse, milli amp to mega amp. So thinking positive to a situation gets to the reaction centre before the negative thought can even if it starts first.
Repetition makes the thought appropriate and the negative code no longer applies, The memory isn't gone but because we store things in pieces it can't be accessed without a code to put it together. So it never comes up again. This is the difference between cognitive restructuring and coping. One builds tolerance, which is fine and you know that can get you through some tough situations, but there are always after affects. The other removes the affects of the trigger so there is nothing to tolerate and no after affects. This is the difference between my CBT and most others, which are not really CBT but exposure therapy. Which is why all my triggers get a different reaction than they used to. Which is why there are no more panic attacks unless I go open that negative access code which I have no reason too.[COLOR="blue"]
The relationship in the first, the bun, was what I was taught first in CBT. My therapist explained how each worked and their interelationship. Back then I dount I really believed it much and it wasn't until I started to see progress that I believed it.
I realised that I could have an impact on how something went despite how I felt but it wasn't something I could always do. This is possibly due to medication though after talking to people on here (including pulisa) because my regular anxiety cycle comes without anything different and nothing works on it but I'm suspecting it is due to too much adrenaline which my body spends a few days every about 7 days ridding itself of. It feels more akin to my side effects period.
So, discounting that but, I can take more control through my thoughts. My behaviours too because by taking part in something worthwhile, it has a knockon effect to the rest.
My therapist also stated that emotions are much harder to deal with than the others as they represent something stronger. The fact they feature in the chart must prove that we can at least influence them though into something more of a positive nature. This makes sense since we experience emotions based on what we see, hear & do. So, we need to do what we would to change the emotion to the one we want it to be.
The building of new neural pathways is something I know is accepted science. Neuroplasticity has been around a long time and it replaced the previously held theory that are brains matured at an early age. Another interesting feature is that its not something hidden, they can see this with MRI.
This was how they did it in the studies mentioned earlier in this thread. The brain changes shape based on how we choose to develop it. If we choose to follow compassionate ideals, we grow that area. If we choose to experience ongoing fear, we grow that area instead.
Davit, there is one area involving memory that confuses me when I look at this model so hopefully you can explain it better to me?
How we choose to react will allow the subconscious to create new neural pathways. I understand this takes some time, possibly known as Long Term Potentiation. Is that correct? How does that really work in terms of number of experiences and over what timescale? I've never looked into it but I'm sure you will know this.
I also know that the areas of the limbic system that look for emotional response play a big role in this. They will see stronger reaction as greater evidence for something being appropriate to create a pathway from or make associations between neurons in the correct area of the brain. So, given we have discussed how negative words are more powerful than positive ones and the same applies to emotional response as explained in one of the earlier links, does this mean that the speed in which we make these changes will be slower and that we need to stimulate change far more times for the subconscious to commit to it?
Are some ways better than others? For instance, are some situations less likely to generate change because they may be related to lesser fears?
You mention creating a new memory. I take memory to mean an association between the image, thought, emotion (where evoked) and situation to create an experience. Do we need to repeat this over & over exactly or can we reinforce it with similiar experiences?
---------- Post added at 06:32 ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 ----------
I was only joking, no need to apologise, I think we all know what any of them mean in this thread. I can remember joining and thinking "what the hells BDD, BPD, etc?" I had to use Google a fair bit at first!
There are a few new acronyms showing up more frequently. I have adjusted to using Google to research although one should know that MBCT is not just mindfulness based cognitive therapy. If the government is tracking my search history they will perhaps be concerned about the nato ammo I clicked on in my search. :roflmao:
If you are interest in viewing the site for CBT MyNameIsTerry the link is attached below this sentence.
http://www.paniccenter.net
Hopefully I don't get my hand smacked for attaching it, but it is a free CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy) program. This is the program I used for CBT and it worked for me. To answer your question, yes, there is cognitive restructuring but it is not worded as such. They left the "jargon" out and put it all in layman's terms.
Thanks, I'll have a look at that.
I think it must be with you being in US and MBCT being more well known over here. If I click on the same link as you, perhaps they will think we are a "cell" :winks::D
PanicAttackGurl
03-05-15, 16:47
Thanks, I'll have a look at that.
I think it must be with you being in US and MBCT being more well known over here. If I click on the same link as you, perhaps they will think we are a "cell" :winks::biggrin:
If we could gather a few from different countries to click that same link, we would be a bigger cell all linked to this forum. :roflmao:and just joking as well.
I wonder if there is a way to change my Google search to UK and Canada. Sadly psychology/psychiatry/therapy here is expensive and they don't post enough information for the public online on a free basis. 95% of my bookmarks/research are from Canada and UK. Thankfully I have also met wonderful people from these countries in the forums.
My positive word for today is "Pleasant".
Terry you have some things close but I'll explain when I come back in. Including why you have a seven day cycle. Hypothalamus is feeding you the extra adrenaline because it thinks it is supposed to, hypothalamus controls the glands through the pituitary. Memory has been found to be the cause of IBS in some studies because a core belief tells hypothalamus to create the reaction to a given thought. (an exaggeration of that similar situation, the nervous pee)
BRB.
PanicAttackGurl
03-05-15, 19:19
I'm going to jump in on this conversation occasionally because of the IBS factor and knowing how this cycles with the hypothalamus/pituitary glands.
I'm still working on being able to eat Pizza from a certain restaurant without an IBS flare-up, but that triggers the PTSD as well.
Welcome panicattackgurl
Okay. We can build new neurons but not complete pathways, what we do is different but close. At around the age of 18 we drop approximately 50% of the unused and unnecessary information we have freeing up whole pathways so we supposedly can handle the stress of being adults. Some childish actions disappear. (in most) and we think different. New thoughts can use these pathways but usually by this age we are repeating thoughts based on core beliefs. The problem comes in that the brain works on appropriate, so if a core belief says it is appropriate then it is. Carved in stone, (brain cells, coded to happen come hell or high water)If it is a small thing it stays on a single neural pathway, but if it is important thoughts shift so the neural pathway can twin. It actually shows on fMRI as being thicker. Because twinning something lowers the resistance and the electrical charge can use this to move faster lowering reaction time and speeding problem solving. This shows as increased activity on the fMRI. Some of this though is the same thought traveling down the twinned pathway.
If you have a core belief saying a thought is important it gets priority and if that thought causes anxiety, it stops in the fear centre instead of passing on. Actually, it goes to hippocampus and is passed on to the fear centre then to hypothalamus instead of directly to hypothalamus for an action. Hypothalamus is very close to semantic and procedural memory and it makes use of them without our permission, but again can not do anything without permission of core beliefs. Of which we have millions. Some minor, some major. Most connected like the neurons are. Some control function. Like getting up and going to the toilet at a certain time every morning. Anxiety can override this core with another and you can end up constipated for reasons unrelated to food. But food can override that core with another saying go or I'm going to make a mess. Your bladder can hold a litre, but at about a cup it wants to be emptied.
Cognitive restructuring makes use of this twinning to change priority by calling for a twinning because a thought has been repeated often enough to be important. The thought it is replacing loses its twin pathway if it has one and the new thought becomes twice as fast and therefore gets used before the old thought can. So although the old thought appears to be forgot, it is still there, it just doesn't get used. So you would think this should be easy, it should even work for OCD. But there are those damn core beliefs telling your brain what is important, even if it is wrong. And it is important because you have always done it. It takes very conscious and much concentration to change a core belief but mindfulness should be able to clear a path to the core you want to change and strip it of its protection. (minor cores that say leave it alone) Positive thoughts are protection killers if the cores are negative. They do this by repetition stealing their pathway.
So why is core beliefs neglected in so much CBT if they are this important. Because we don't want to accept that 99% of our thoughts get treated with out our input. We have a core control saying stay out in an attempt to prevent anxiety. Our minds try very hard to stick to a routine even though in crisis this can be over ruled. Hippocampus through its neighbouring organs can do a lot more than just shuffle negative thoughts to fight or flight, it can call for positive actions. EG, putting a tourniquet on or just standing and screaming. Personality and attitude play a big part in this. So to get back to your chart showing how everything is connected there should be one more square in the centre saying core beliefs, but how can there be if people don't know what they are or how they work.
Panicattackgurl
With exposure therapy done right you would spend the day eating pizza and doing cognitive restructuring. You would eat a tiny bit of pizza and say this is not causing IBS, the thought that it will is, the thought is wrong. If a core belief is causing the IBS then you are going to get it anyway, but you have started the process of stripping that core. You have planted doubt and this time doubt is on your side. So you need positives attached to the pizza so that if you do get IBS you can say it is not connected. Because it isn't pizza. The thought is only the trigger, core beliefs cause the reaction. Even if you are allergic you still need a core belief to cause the reaction, they control everything.
We think we have only a few core beliefs, like major ones that are very obvious like the negative ones, I am ugly, I am stupid, no one likes me. In that light. but major cores all spin off minors called situation cores. Your sitting in a restaurant and something unpleasant happens. You go home upset and your stomach reacts, maybe you get diarrhoea. This is a situation core connecting the two when there is no connection. This core leads you to expect you will get the same reaction from that restaurant when in fact it was the incident instead. The restaurant is harmless. The core that spun this one off is that people get sick from restaurants so it must be the restaurant. I got diarrhoea once and had pizza that day, it must be pizza. If it happens more than once then it is set. Negatives take less repetition than positive because of survival, positives don't harm us so they have less control. They need more repetition. Most CBT courses say change negative to positive but not how many times or why. Feed back are the unconscious triggers for hypothalamus. Feed back says, I just ate pizza. Episodic memory says I know what to do with that and it tells Hypothalamus what to do and Hypothalamus tells pituitary what to request the necessary organs and glands to do based on last time. And last time started out a very longtime ago. But if you did not always have IBS then there could be some truth in this theory that it is caused by the mind thinking it belongs. Just like it thinks OCD belongs, or HA.
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People often cycle and that cycling can be a major cause of fear. If say you visit your mother in law every week end because it pleases your wife and your mother in law rides your ass, you would soon build a dislike of visiting which you transfer to your wife because you are doing it for her. All hidden away in the subconscious, often not even there till friday night. So if you look for it you may find a reason why you needed extra adrenaline every seven days and if you find the reason then you could say this is not necessary any more. You could just say it anyway but that would not override the core causing it, because you need a reason. It is probably work related. Psyching yourself up for Monday. Using that adrenaline to get through the first days till you hit your stride. It might not be this at all but there has to be a reason for it. When I retired I still got anxiety over work that I no longer did but it had lost it's day relationship because there were no work days specific any more. So it would pop up if something happened that was close making it seem out of the blue. You can stop it but you really need to know what it is related to. Cognitive restructuring is using repetition to build priority pathways to override a negative but if that negative has a strong pathway and protectors it takes a lot of repetition. So why not just do exposure? Because exposure doesn't get rid of the thought totally where as Cognitive restructuring does. It comes back to appropriate, building a thought you want to be appropriate.
Does this sound as foreign as it did to me. I used to think things just happened and never questioned why. But it would be impossible to change things if they just happened and we would have no direction, we would function very erratic. Now if we are erratic it is because we have core beliefs causing it.
How long a thing has been there dictates how long it will take to change it. Emotions dictate which core belief we will use and they are very protective of their favourites. Emotions can give a different meaning to triggers. Emotions can lead to depression so strong it causes a black hole that sucks the life out of you.
But as emotions control core beliefs, there are core beliefs that control emotions. As long as we leave them subconscious we function as we always have, nothing changes till it comes to the surface for examination and even at that we most often react the same way, like trying to solve "bug" but making the same moves over and over even though they don't work.
PanicAttackGurl
04-05-15, 00:08
Davit,
Lets get in-depth. This Pizza, that causes the IBS-D flare up and triggers the PTSD is a deep rooted semantic cognitive belief. (The pizza is real for anyone else reading) On both occasions of two different car accidents, *first one- called for pizza carryout, *second car accident-had just started driving again and picked up pizza from same restaurant. I want to eat this pizza without triggering either the IBS-D or the PTSD.
Theoretically speaking: I need to change the negative thought that is traveling the pathways. Lets say, I call and order this pizza for delivery right now. I'm hungry anyhow. I do not have to drive to go get it. Not avoidance, they deliver now which automatically stops part of the core belief. Correct?
Pizza is ordered and will arrive in approximately 30-35 minutes.
---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:55 ----------
Pizza is here.
Step one after finding out I could not attach photo of my pizza: change profile pic to pizza.
Step two: Its just a pizza. A yummy thin and crispy pepperoni pizza.
Step three: Take a bite.
---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:54 ----------
Davit,
Pizza was slightly cold once I got to take a bite after trying to upload photo. I can honestly admit I ate a whole slice. My cognitive restructuring was as follows:
Telling myself its just a pizza. Confirming to myself I am not allergic to any of the ingredients. Thinking about how tasty this pizza was going to be. Not associating anything beside the taste of the pizza with the pizza. I also took my pulse and oxygen rate while waiting on pizza. O2 was 98%, surprisingly with the COPD and pulse was 88 which is really great with the sinus tachycardia.
If I have an IBS-D flare it will happen within 30 minutes. Sorry..Too much information.
Am I missing anything for this trial?
Okay you know the pizza is not the cause of the accidents but semantic memory has a definite connection because there is one, but that is just a fact, but PTSD says if you buy a pizza you will have an accident. If you eat this pizza and don't get IBS then you have a code key to open a positive path and build on it. (that is why it was only supposed to be a small piece, but who can only eat a small piece. I went to the store and bought a whole bag of six inch individuals) So grab every opportunity that comes, Lets say IBS is less than usual, you get to say ok.Hypothalamus you are still wrong, pizza is okay. If it doesn't happen because you are stronger than semantic memory (probably not right now) You have the key to build a new positive core belief. Use it ten times and you will have a priority pathway overriding the other. Believe it and it will happen faster. in the IBS tests it didn't say what the triggers were that brought on the IBS.
Positive to help build the positive core. Have you had pizza before and enjoyed it.Have you had pizza without an accident. Do your friends have pizza and not have accidents. Sigmund Froid just popped into my head. (have you had sex with your father and did you enjoy it lol) Nothing to do with this thread but associated enough for semantic memory to offer it. It does that. Often causing panic we think is out of the blue. I hope you are enjoying your pizza. I can't think of any movies where the pizza guy gets killed delivering a pizza so you should be free of that associated memory. The other thing is that you "want to" eat this pizza without side effects and be assertive, you are damn well going to. If you end up on the toilet thinking that didn't work remember to add, not this time.
---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------
Hi Sam, I'd like your comments too.
PanicAttackGurl
04-05-15, 01:14
:yesyes:
No flare up, no troublesome thoughts.
The drawback from this trial was there was a ordering minimum, delivery charge and tip. I am also left with a large pizza with only one slice missing. I could eat a slice tomorrow for lunch, but that defeats my healthy eating choices since this was a trial for cognitive restructuring. The secondary test will be driving to get the pizza in two weeks. This will be exposure therapy and cognitive restructuring together. I'm pleasantly surprised at the outcome of this trial.
Davit, The Sigmund Froid was funny. Even funnier is I have never killed a pizza delivery guy so had no associated memory associated to it. Or did I and I just can't recall....:whistles:
Pizza freezes well, you have till tomorrow to have a crap attack. I'm bating your ability to stay positive, I'm also going to put pizza in the toaster oven. Or does IBS usually work this fast?
PanicAttackGurl
04-05-15, 02:59
Davit,
With the Bile Salt Diarrhea and IBS-D when I eat something that typically causes a flare-up it will happen within 30 minutes. I can't eat at a lot of restaurants because of this, unless I know I will make it home within 20 minutes of eating. Its been that way since Dr took out my gallbladder many years ago. I can say I am still good this evening. No flare up, no anxiety. I even pushed my luck by drinking soda with it. :yahoo:
I need to practice for the trip in two weeks to this particular restaurant. I want to succeed so this is no longer a trigger/core belief. It's not the pizza.
MyNameIsTerry
04-05-15, 06:46
Positive to help build the positive core. Have you had pizza before and enjoyed it.Have you had pizza without an accident. Do your friends have pizza and not have accidents. Sigmund Froid just popped into my head. (have you had sex with your father and did you enjoy it lol) Nothing to do with this thread but associated enough for semantic memory to offer it.
What if I did have sex with my father, enjoyed it...and then had a pizza?! :yesyes:
---------- Post added at 06:36 ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 ----------
The drawback from this trial was there was a ordering minimum, delivery charge and tip. I am also left with a large pizza with only one slice missing. I could eat a slice tomorrow for lunch, but that defeats my healthy eating choices since this was a trial for cognitive restructuring.
I'm liking your justification there. I will remember that next time I fancy something I know I shouldn't have. Reframing has its merits :winks::D
---------- Post added at 06:38 ---------- Previous post was at 06:36 ----------
Pizza freezes well, you have till tomorrow to have a crap attack. I'm bating your ability to stay positive, I'm also going to put pizza in the toaster oven. Or does IBS usually work this fast?
Its hard to tell thesedays. Years ago you know by not getting a response but now everythings wireless, small, portable and even in tablet form...well, its easy enough replying on the toilet :yesyes:
---------- Post added at 06:46 ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 ----------
Davit,
Lets get in-depth. This Pizza, that causes the IBS-D flare up and triggers the PTSD is a deep rooted semantic cognitive belief. (The pizza is real for anyone else reading) On both occasions of two different car accidents, *first one- called for pizza carryout, *second car accident-had just started driving again and picked up pizza from same restaurant. I want to eat this pizza without triggering either the IBS-D or the PTSD.
Theoretically speaking: I need to change the negative thought that is traveling the pathways. Lets say, I call and order this pizza for delivery right now. I'm hungry anyhow. I do not have to drive to go get it. Not avoidance, they deliver now which automatically stops part of the core belief. Correct?
Pizza is ordered and will arrive in approximately 30-35 minutes.?
It would be avoidance if you chose to order in rather than face the journey due to a skewed view of the possible outcome. If you can chose to do either without such a consequence, its not avoidance. If not avoidance could it be considered a safety behaviour?
The 2 are distinct from what I see. The PTSD can be overcome by creating a new pathway that shows a care journey to this destination without incident. Initially this is going to mean some level of anxiety hence its not going to be a very clear or strong belief but as you strengthen it through repetitiion it will become the dominate pathway of the 2.
Then there is the self monitoring issue to consider. In the future it is going to be possible to re-activate that old believ as being the stronger if you create an environment for anxiety to flourish. So, healthy behaviours and ongoing healthy thought processes will be key.
Thats how I see it. Is that right in terms of memory? I understand thought, emotion, situation & sensations in terms of how they will group together, but the memory side is newer to me.
BTW I want a pizza now!!! :emot-drool:
If you went to a whore house with your father you could have pizza and probably beer too.
Might get to clap about it the next day. But that might increase (lol) your anxiety.
---------- Post added at 22:57 ---------- Previous post was at 22:54 ----------
Yeah and you can cover the mike on your cell phone.
---------- Post added at 23:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:57 ----------
Oh definitely go to the head of the class, you even got the possibilities and solutions to the possibilities. Now to put it into practice. And that is where it becomes the hardest simple thing you will ever do because you have those never talked about core beliefs to deal with. Those hidden controlling factors.
Time for a thread on core beliefs I think. Time to see how many even know what they are.
MyNameIsTerry
04-05-15, 07:50
If we could gather a few from different countries to click that same link, we would be a bigger cell all linked to this forum. :roflmao:and just joking as well.
I wonder if there is a way to change my Google search to UK and Canada. Sadly psychology/psychiatry/therapy here is expensive and they don't post enough information for the public online on a free basis. 95% of my bookmarks/research are from Canada and UK. Thankfully I have also met wonderful people from these countries in the forums.
My positive word for today is "Pleasant".
Yeah, you might be able to do it. You can change your location in Google. The only problem is that it will only allow you to change to a location within the current search engines domain. So, if you change to Google.co.uk first, you could pick anywhere in the UK and you should get relevant searches I would think.
It changed mine to Italy for no reason recently and it wouldn't let me change it back. After a day, it changed back to UK again! :mad::huh::shrug:
---------- Post added at 07:24 ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 ----------
Davit,
More is always needed on things like this. The way I see it, the forum is mostly on its own and its down to the people on here to do things to change this.
There are no guided threads from what I see or articles that create a discussion as there are on larger forums or the charity forums. NMP lack this but I realise why as its a small team of people doing what they can.
The trouble is, it largely becomes a forum of problems/issues with not much going on other than rationalisation and tips on individual cases. The fact the positive boards barely move is evidence of this. People also need to understand what is going on underneath their current concerns and how to change them. Part of the problem as well is that people offer excellent advice but whether the OP understands how they reached their conclusions is left unknown at times so the OP does not always have the skills to get there on their own when it happens again.
The way I see it they need to understand things like Cognitive Restructuring, Cognitive Distortions, correct ERP & how it is used alongside the other 2.
---------- Post added at 07:37 ---------- Previous post was at 07:24 ----------
With regards to my cycling issue, I agree that there will be a core belief there but I also know what adrenaline rushes feel like from before this as I experienced them from artifical stimulus. So, I strongly suspect the medication to be the issue as it started from day one on the dose where it interacts with adrenaline but I recognise that there will be a core belief about the bodily sensations that creates and a response to the heightened adrenaline. This can be changed but I need to eliminate the trigger too which appears to be the medication.
So, memory will be kicking in when that period starts i.e. 3-4 days of target time, expected outcomes based on previous ones, etc. I can then choose to keep that minimised or make it worse through how I think and my behaviour.
The issue of the limbic system acting before the neocortex is one I have not managed to pin down in my head at the moment. As I understand it, the amygdala will create the relevant adrenaline response after finding a record of what to do from the hippocampus. As I understand it, the input to this is from the thalamus and it splits the signal between the amygdala and neocortex. The amygdala checks with the hippocampus and if there is a match it will act so quickly that the neocortex hasn't had a chance to process its input. If the amygdala cannot find a match, it waits for the neocortex to catch up and then acts based on what it tells it.
Presumably then, and I haven't got this far yet, the resultant output is in the way of adrenaline and information to the prefrontal cortex for decision making? I know the prefrontal cortex is involved as they have performed studies of rats to show it firing up based on creation of a fear response to stimulus (fear conditioning).
---------- Post added at 07:50 ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 ----------
A point you mentioned earlier was about exposure. From reading a fair few threads on here I'm not sure if exposure is that well known.
My understanding of ERP is to create a ladder, a hierachy, from low to high which you will progress through. Then you start with Step 1. For each step you have to remain exposued until you feel your anxiety subside by about 50% as it won't usually go lower. If you leave before this point you have doing nothing more than face a trigger to reinforce the expected outcome.
Then you move onto Step 2. This doesn't allow for any restructure and dependant on the issue, you have a very good chance of feeling anxiety again in Step 1. If you keep repeating Step 1 you will see anxiety reduce the more you do it until there is little or nothing left. Step 2 usually starts before this though in an attempt to take your resilience to a higher level so as to render Step 1 defunct. I just think we should repeat Step 1 in inbetween so we keep the repetition going and reduce the impact of the upcoming Step 2.
But I'm not sure people are doing this. I've read threads where people are doing exposure and I haven't seen any reference to the 50%. People are often confused about timing as well. My therapist showed me a chart where anxiety levels drop after about 20 minutes. So, this tells me that exposure must be beyond that point but there are many exposures which can't last even that long. I don't know how they then deal with this part.
I created a thread with an exposure guide for therapists for when exposure isn't working. It should say in there but I haven't gone back to it to check yet.
I think though that once you have done exposure, restructuring should commence anyway as you want to keep those pathways open more often. In fact, it should really be before & after. You write down the restructure and keep reading it through and thinking about it in a positive way. Then once exposure is complete, attempt to reinforce the both of them in the outcome period.
Thats just how I feel about it, I don't know if thats right, but some of the things I see said about exposure I know are not right and contradict what my therapist said as well as expert sources I've read.
There are three kinds of exposure, two are therapy, the third is as a test. Number one is a jump off the deep end all or nothing exposure, Grandma's just do it therapy, It only works with aggressive type A persons used to bulling there way through.
Number two is the slow get used to it therapy as you mention it. It is easy to revert back if something changes the situation. You conquer driving and then on TV is a multi car crash. Number three is doing exposure after cognitive restructuring to see if it worked and the old thought will stay put. number two is easier to do than cognitive restructuring and only needs relaxation and coping skill before being done. Core beliefs seldom come into play. Because there is eventual belief that you are okay that is considered cognitive and therefore it is CBT. It is but it is stretching it a bit. Or we need a new name, total cognitive restructuring therapy. A therapy that covers every thing and answers the question 'Why"
TCRT for short hey to separate it from CBT since they are not the same. Just joking I don't have the credentials to create something like that even if I have the knowledge, and gaining more every day
MyNameIsTerry
04-05-15, 10:37
There is another form called Interoceptive Exposure. This ones a little different as they bring on the symptoms on a controlled environment e.g. create hyperventilation, use of caffeine stimulation. So, if you are ever in need of a free cup of coffee :winks::D
Maybe the therapist gets to dress up as a clown for that particular phobia? I guess its a 2-way helper since it could require a custard pie in the face! Either that or drives through the door in a little car making honking noises. :roflmao:
Within them they can also use Imagery to take the client into something that would cause panic. I'm not sure how effective that is, I guess its like with hypnotherapy, not everyone allows it to work for them.
Hi guy's, when my husband arrives home I will let him read all this,being a psychiatrist it would be interesting to hear his view on these topics.:D
PanicAttackGurl
04-05-15, 16:08
Update on trial.
I'm still fine, no sudden urge to run to the toilet. No overwhelming feeling of dread from the PTSD.
MyNameIsTerry,
For the exposure therapy if you have anxiety over 50%, you can add another step to the hierarchy. Your own comfort is what matters. When I started my exposure therapy for driving I always did all the steps without leaving one out and never with an anxiety level above 50%. There was one incident where I was thrown into deep end exposure and it was not practical and caused a major setback.
It would be avoidance if you chose to order in rather than face the journey due to a skewed view of the possible outcome. If you can chose to do either without such a consequence, its not avoidance. If not avoidance could it be considered a safety behaviour?
The 2 are distinct from what I see. The PTSD can be overcome by creating a new pathway that shows a care journey to this destination without incident. Initially this is going to mean some level of anxiety hence its not going to be a very clear or strong belief but as you strengthen it through repetitiion it will become the dominate pathway of the 2.
Then there is the self monitoring issue to consider. In the future it is going to be possible to re-activate that old believ as being the stronger if you create an environment for anxiety to flourish. So, healthy behaviours and ongoing healthy thought processes will be key.
Thats how I see it. Is that right in terms of memory? I understand thought, emotion, situation & sensations in terms of how they will group together, but the memory side is newer to me.
BTW I want a pizza now!!! :emot-drool:
You're right on all of the above. It could have been avoidance or a safety behavior, but in my mind it was all about eating the pizza without the prior cause and effect of an IBS-D flare up or symptoms of the PTSD.
There is plenty of pizza in my refrigerator, but I'm in a different country. :doh:
Originally Posted by Davit http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/images/nmp/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1421899#post1421899)
Positive to help build the positive core. Have you had pizza before and enjoyed it.Have you had pizza without an accident. Do your friends have pizza and not have accidents. Sigmund Froid just popped into my head. (have you had sex with your father and did you enjoy it lol) Nothing to do with this thread but associated enough for semantic memory to offer it.
What if I did have sex with my father, enjoyed it...and then had a pizza?! :yesyes:
I'm wondering how you got into my kitchen and took my pizza. :huh:
Blue moon
Hi. We are open to anyone reading this, even people who don't agree. My experience, and don't take this wrong has been that Psychiatrists work in a different field, in an area of actual mental disease that calls for medication that needs to be adjusted and monitored. Here they have little time for anxiety and panic disorders unless the person is suicidal and then it is off to the psych ward and on to medication.
I think he may well tell you he does not have time to spend a year working with single patients but leaves that to Psychologists and Therapists. The therapy we are formulating here is more than just cognitive restructuring it is a total rewriting of CBT by those who need it, dropping what doesn't work and adding what does and putting them in the right order. Only someone experiencing this can know what works, for all others it is theory. What we could really use is more people willing to try this.
---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:13 ----------
PAG
It can't be your pizza I have, mine isn't very good. They must have used a spray gun to put on the thin layer of sauce.
---------- Post added at 09:26 ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 ----------
Terry
IE is the last step in my CBT. it is purposely opening that closed door to see if you can beat it to the action, to see if you have actually built a new pathway, because the only way to be sure is to use the old one, and I know there is a micro second blip of knowing before it is gone and the new thought appears. It does have its hazard if done too soon.
MyNameIsTerry
05-05-15, 07:20
PanicAttackGurl - yes, thats my understanding too. Where you hit a brick wall, you insert another step to get you closer.
I want your fridge!
Davit - I don't know whether IE is used over here and when I have looked at the OCD guidelines it is ERP within CBT. The GAD guidelines just state CBT though so it could be anything with it. I guess they could since its within the realms of CBT. I would imagine though that we are talking about more senior therapists though as there are too many medical considerations when introducing foreign substances.
---------- Post added at 07:20 ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 ----------
Welcome panicattackgurl
Okay. We can build new neurons but not complete pathways, what we do is different but close. At around the age of 18 we drop approximately 50% of the unused and unnecessary information we have freeing up whole pathways so we supposedly can handle the stress of being adults. Some childish actions disappear. (in most) and we think different. New thoughts can use these pathways but usually by this age we are repeating thoughts based on core beliefs. The problem comes in that the brain works on appropriate, so if a core belief says it is appropriate then it is. Carved in stone, (brain cells, coded to happen come hell or high water)If it is a small thing it stays on a single neural pathway, but if it is important thoughts shift so the neural pathway can twin. It actually shows on fMRI as being thicker. Because twinning something lowers the resistance and the electrical charge can use this to move faster lowering reaction time and speeding problem solving. This shows as increased activity on the fMRI. Some of this though is the same thought traveling down the twinned pathway.
If you have a core belief saying a thought is important it gets priority and if that thought causes anxiety, it stops in the fear centre instead of passing on. Actually, it goes to hippocampus and is passed on to the fear centre then to hypothalamus instead of directly to hypothalamus for an action. Hypothalamus is very close to semantic and procedural memory and it makes use of them without our permission, but again can not do anything without permission of core beliefs. Of which we have millions. Some minor, some major. Most connected like the neurons are. Some control function. Like getting up and going to the toilet at a certain time every morning. Anxiety can override this core with another and you can end up constipated for reasons unrelated to food. But food can override that core with another saying go or I'm going to make a mess. Your bladder can hold a litre, but at about a cup it wants to be emptied.
Cognitive restructuring makes use of this twinning to change priority by calling for a twinning because a thought has been repeated often enough to be important. The thought it is replacing loses its twin pathway if it has one and the new thought becomes twice as fast and therefore gets used before the old thought can. So although the old thought appears to be forgot, it is still there, it just doesn't get used. So you would think this should be easy, it should even work for OCD. But there are those damn core beliefs telling your brain what is important, even if it is wrong. And it is important because you have always done it. It takes very conscious and much concentration to change a core belief but mindfulness should be able to clear a path to the core you want to change and strip it of its protection. (minor cores that say leave it alone) Positive thoughts are protection killers if the cores are negative. They do this by repetition stealing their pathway.
So why is core beliefs neglected in so much CBT if they are this important. Because we don't want to accept that 99% of our thoughts get treated with out our input. We have a core control saying stay out in an attempt to prevent anxiety. Our minds try very hard to stick to a routine even though in crisis this can be over ruled. Hippocampus through its neighbouring organs can do a lot more than just shuffle negative thoughts to fight or flight, it can call for positive actions. EG, putting a tourniquet on or just standing and screaming. Personality and attitude play a big part in this. So to get back to your chart showing how everything is connected there should be one more square in the centre saying core beliefs, but how can there be if people don't know what they are or how they work.
Where action is instinctual thats called Amygdala Hijack, isn't it? There must be some further rules around that though or can't we literally be trained to act out an inappropriate (or criminal) action without control?
On the issue with the pathways, doesn't synaptic plasticity use a principle called "use it or lose it" which deletes the synapse that connects the neurons? So, if it does this, wouldn't that mean that single pathway no longer does anything because the synapse would be needed to make the connection?
Reading, I want to get this right. You see there is a very high emotional element in Amygdala highjack.
A synapse is a gap between two neurons with multiple paths between the two sides, chemical door men with big sticks stand guard. Seratonin can only say piss off. But dopamine can point with it's stick and say you cross or you piss off. Seratonin is logic, Dopamine is emotional. When there is not enough seratonin the rabble can overrun the gates and seratonin doesn't have a big enough stick to stop it. Dopamine could but because it is emotional it is leaning on it's stick with it's thumb up it's ass saying, I just don't know, give me a reason. So if you don't us a synapse they don't die the neurotransmitters stop doing their job and that gate no longer works. If you can't open the gate you can't use the path. Some times as is with the amygdala having two choices it is just using one path over the other because emotions have thrown in their two cents. The other path isn't dead, the gate is just closed. Emotions are like sheep, they wander all over and logic is a path they just don't see even though it is clear.
I thought I answered this.
---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:15 ----------
Too tired for this, going to leave it till tomorrow.
Amygdala is just part of hippocampus but a very important part. It only has one job but two ways to do it. It normally does things logically but logic is slow. The other path is fast but has limited choice which probably is why it is fast. Still it is very capable of saving our bacon. In panic disorders because it gets it's instructions from hippocampus and because hippocampus is the sorting and forwarding centre it isn't Amygdala's fault when it goes into hijack mode. It is using false information. Still that doesn't change the fact. If it was just a short hijack and it went back to normal logic fear it would be okay but feed back it gives hippocampus causes a fear directive to be sent to hypothalamus which of course says "what did I do last time." All perfectly normal in normal circumstances except hypothalamus finds panic attack in episodic memory and that is what it uses. A little anxiety and panic is normal in life but as long as Episodic memory has panic attack the only choice then that is what it has to use. Cognitive restructuring gives it not only another choice but a priority choice. Hijack will still happen but the final reaction will be different and that will help to reduce unnecessary hijacks. So many times I have been glad of instinctual reactions. I was a faller of the tall timber, the difference between death and a close call can be micro seconds. I wonder if I see the brain different, to me it looks like popcorn balls, clusters of neurons held together my synapse points on each neuron. Paths are not paths in the true sense but series's of neurons with connecting synapses firing at the same time. This electrical charge is what I think fMRI sees. It looks like a path because they are so close together.There would be no room in the brain for wasted space like actual paths.
MyNameIsTerry
15-05-15, 06:37
Davit,
I think you may find this clinical report interested on exposure in OCD. I posted it in a thread ages ago as it talks about the pifalls that therapists face and how to overcome them:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/files/attachments/72634/gillihanexrppitfals2012.pdf
I think you will find sections 6-7 of particular interest.
There is an interesting article here about how some of this works at a chemical level and how to counteract it.
I haven't read into this to understand the background of those they are quoting or the studies, so I don't know how it may fit in, I'm sure Davit will have a better idea, but perhaps it presents a case for affirmations?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/words-can-change-your-brain/201208/the-most-dangerous-word-in-the-world
I did affirmations in my CBT. However, I was just told to use them throughout the day or when something seems to be causing me anxiety. I never found this useful unless I was having a better day in which case I would easily take them in. This article stipulates a minimum number required, so maybe that is the key and I wasn't told this?
When I used to attend the charity walk-in groups they often had a short session where we would take turns reading out sections of a module from CBT. We covered unhelpful thinking styles, Cognitive Distortions and use of language in one of them. We did this a fair few times and then would have discussions about how we feel about it, can we identify ourselves in it, etc.
I think Cognitive Distortion is linked to use of language because when we lean towards the negative we will typically use these keywords so they must reinforce our feelings in the distortion.
Here is a good explanation on Wiki that matches the ones we we handed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion
I bet you can identify some of your behaviours in there. I know I can. Being an obsessive, I have real trouble with "all-or-nothing-thinking". When I look back I can see myself becoming more & more controlling about my work and being tougher on people to deliver...I must have driven some of them to the brink!
Also, because we now know about use of certain key words and can understand how we use them in Cognitive Distortions and also understand how we should replace them with positives, we should also consider Cognitive Restructuring. This sits within "Cognitive Reframing" in positive psychology and is used in Cognitive Therapy and CBT. It allows us to understand our thinking patterns but more importantly how to change them. So, how does this tie in with Davits words? It makes sense that when we write down a problem it is going to use the negative words so in restructuring we need to be careful not to use them again and always aim to use the positive words. This was never explained to me in CBT but its obvious when you work through it in this logical order.
Here are some worksheets used in Cognitive Restructing. See what you think and how you could use them:
http://psychology.tools/cognitive-restructuring.html
Is that ok in your thread, Davit? It just seems a natural step onwards that still needs your words in there for maximum effect and I think this gets neglected as you don't see much of it on here.
Also, perhaps this thread should be in Top Tips?
That article was very very interesting Terry. My therapist has been explaining the importance of how I say things, both out loud and in my head. I can now understand what he means as i can tell the emotional difference when I use certain words. I use the "word watching" as part of my mindfulness practice now and very often I catch myself about to say something less than helpful and challenge it before re-framing the sentence into something more helpful.
What I found most profound about the link to the article is the impact of words on other people from newspapers and media. I don't watch the conventional news anymore and rarely read a paper but what impact do words used by the media have on people, especially in light of the fact they like to make things as dramatic as possible and tend to use the most fear inducing language! This becomes apparent to me when I hear people regurgitate, almost word for word, what they read/hear about. This must certainly affect people on an individual level, and a collective level, and I've wondered whether this has contributed to the increase in anxiety/depression levels in our society over the last few decades.
MyNameIsTerry
24-05-15, 10:43
The obvious example is the HA sufferers who are very sensitive to any media about cancer. Its strange how its always cancer that seems to get the most attention. You get people talking about various brain issues, clots, etc. Cancer is forever being put in front of us on TV in programmes, in adverts, on the radio, on billboards, in the papers. Its everywhere. Clots seem to be on here a fair bit too - could that be because we have heard quite a lot about DVT in the last 10 years and now we even have people actively marketing products to help reduce the risks?
Something I've seen Davit say on the HA board a few times now is 'you wouldn't know it could X if you hadn't already learned what it was'. He suggests that memory plays a big part in this. To someone without HA, memory is used quite normally in that we don't suffer the distortions of the HA person but they fixate on that outcome and reinforce it in their subconscious. They seek out new memories of it by Googling and reading all the symptoms.
One of the things that really annoys me about cancer awareness is that it is somewhat irresponsible. Where does it say "but don't worry, it could be any number of minor ailments"? The NHS have opted for the scattergun approach and they've been quite aggresive with it. We can all understand why they do it, but it clearly has a very negative impact on HA sufferers. (I do also wonder how annoyed the GP's get at all the extra pointless visits they are getting).
The power of words is easily seen in that message "blood in your poo? It could be a sign of cancer". They use "could", which is appropriate, but they don't use it for any psychological reason, they use it for legal reasons as they can't say "is". (It's not an "is" for anyone reading this, I'm just demonstrating the fact they would be crucified for writing that in if it wasn't 100% accurate) However, the word everyone is focussing on is cancer, the rest has become less important.
Newspapers especially are awful for things like this. Their use of language is quite deliberate, its shock value. I've seen a few threads on the GAD board about terrorism & war since I joined. In these cases I would bet the use of words has added additional impact to people who are already suspectible to negatives.
Davit also says 'negative attracts negative' and whilst we often thnk of this as people who are negative, the power sappers, could it also be applied to reading material? If you continually read negative material, how does it alter your core beliefs?
I wonder if there are any studies out there? There must be some somewhere.
I wonder how many positives we need to cancel out all these negatives or whether they bounce off us but whether they don't when we are more anxious since we are already engaged in a negative mood.
If there are studies they would be shut down real quick. Too many people would lose their reason for existence.
There are two distinct personality types I coined as apples and oranges and was proud of my discovery till my therapist told me someone beat me too it. That just proved my theory. Apples and oranges because they are so different from each other. It is a sliding scale and people can fit anywhere on it but most are toward the apple end and this is a hold over from primitive times when negative was important for survival and aggression for success and hunting. Look where it got us and how. War and destruction, greed and distrust. We live in a world of convenience but the mental cost is high even though for the most part the physical is low. I doubt it can be changed because the blind are leading the blind and are deaf to the sighted.
MyNameIsTerry
08-06-15, 07:41
Bump
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 04:37
Bump
I was just going to let these all fade.
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 06:16
I've subscribed to them so I won't lose them so if you don't want them bumping further, I'll respect your decision.
No, it seems people are using them.
MyNameIsTerry
22-07-15, 08:38
Something I have been monitoring more recently is my mood and use of certain words. I have noticed how when my mood is better I will more instintively use "Want" more and if "Should" or "Have" crop up I can easily replace them with a positive and feel little or no impact from the original negative.
It's much more challenging with low mood though. There is a tendency to let it slip but we can't afford to do this as negatives are more powerful so we are undoing the good work we do with our positives.
This leads me to believe that mood plays a key part in all this as it gives you the opportunity to challenge as much as possibility so that in each good period you pull yourself that much further forward. You still need to learn to challenge in the blips though.
When I first started my recovery journey I wouldn't add anything new in the bad periods but would in the good ones. I used them to pull me out of that dark hole, bit by bit.
So, perhaps the same can be achieved with moods & words? But only until you can do it in both.
MyNameIsTerry
03-08-15, 05:10
Positive Affirmations seem a nice tie-in with this words thread. For instance:
“I can’t afford a vacation” becomes “I can afford to take a nice vacation.”
“It’s hard to lose weight” becomes “Losing weight is easy for me.”
“I can’t save any money” becomes “I’m good at saving money.”
“I’ll never meet the right guy/woman” could become “I’m open to new relationships” or “I’m ready to meet my perfect mate.”
Notice how present tense has been used in the positive affirmations.
Negative words are coloured red, positives ones green.
So, in using these affirmations you also need to be careful with your use of words to prevent including negatives which will only serve to preserve those skewed beliefs and negative thinking styles.
MyNameIsTerry
09-08-15, 06:04
This one is interesting but also relevant to this thread:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/let-their-words-do-the-talking/201011/words-have-power
Whilst this is geared towards criminal investigation & interrogation, it does discuss Negative Primacy. This is a useful concept to employ with words when entering or imagining a scenario or event.
The basic premise is that if you are influenced in a negative manner, you will continue to view the scenario/event in negative terms. This is going to reinforce your resistance to shifting your view to the positive.
I think that is very relevant when considering how we often look at something in terms or risk, failure, anxiety provoking, etc. It further confirms previous discussion in this thread about the power of negative words, especially some more than others.
So, we need to work on seeing things in a more positive, or at least neutral, way to steer clear of this.
Found this thread very interesting
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