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This thread although posted by me is actually by a group of us. Someones name has to be on it. It is about important things that need to be addressed. The first that we have all agreed on is the lack of success stories. So we want your input.
What therapy have you used, did it work, if not why do you think not?
How long were you on it? Feel free to say exactly what it involved and if it was missing something what it was.
This is not about medication, there is already plenty of coverage on that.
We want to know why there is not more success in something that is curable.
If you think it is not we also want to know why.
Lets see if we can have this site live up to it's name.
:D
I'm looking forward to following this thread. Exactly what we need.
If it doesn't get response it can only mean that the majority think there is no cure or that what they are doing is good enough.
I think this is a great idea Davit :) Please let's move forward with this.
Sunflower2
16-05-15, 22:28
I had 4 months of weekly CBT therapy for severe anxiety, low self esteem and an eating disorder. It successfully helped me overcome the worst of my eating disorder. And brought my self esteem back up. However my therapy was cut short due to the psychologist finishing her placement and her supervisor deciding I was well enough to manage it on my own. This meant all my actual issues weren't dealt with and I was not at a point where I was able to manage it on my own and have gone backwards since. So I still have severe anxiety and OCD.
CBT quite possibly saved me from bad health problems my bad eating habits were giving me and it's made me so much more positive. However I find it a lot harder to use it with my anxiety as its a lot more severe and deep set from years of thinking. I'm now at a point where I'm considering medication to help work on the anxiety. Without CBT I could never have even considered this because of such a bad phobia. It's given me the tools to give me my life back.
Is this just for people with panic disorder, or can all of us chime in?
Yes chime in swgrl09 :D
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It successfully helped me overcome the worst of my eating disorder. And brought my self esteem back up. However my therapy was cut short due to the psychologist finishing her placement and her supervisor deciding I was well enough to manage it on my own.
Is trying CBT again an option Kimberley?
Any one, we want your input. It doesn't have to be therapy per say, it can be anything you think made you better, worse or did nothing. I see we have some good posts, thank you.
I have used several types of therapy to address different aspects of my anxiety. I have been in therapy for 5 years on and off and have seen 3 therapists.
My first therapist was very CBT and family-systems based. I used general CBT on and off throughout the years, found it helpful but not a cure. I felt like the reasons I was anxious were not being addressed and it was really hard to change my thoughts without working on why I had those thoughts. I was well aware my thoughts were distorted, but struggled with actually changing them.
I then went to another therapist after two traumas. My health anxiety worsened due to trauma, so I also tried EMDR, which helped as well, but also not a cure. She did some CBT, but same thing as above. We did family therapy, which was helpful because some of my current depression and anxiety was stemming from some family issues. It was helpful to express how I felt to my sister, have support, and voice my opinion. I was always a "stuffer" and hid my feelings to keep the peace. Getting a chance to find my voice again took one layer off the anxiety. The HA was still there though. In between the first two therapists I lost my mom to cancer, which made it worse. A lot of this therapy was for grief and depression. Once the depression was treated, anxiety came back again.
I learned about IFS in graduate school (Internal Family Systems Therapy). I took a few courses in it and got trained it in. I sought out a therapist who uses a combination of IFS and sensorimotor psychotherapy. This has been the most helpful therapy I have had. I have felt a combination of these two has addressed the underlying issues which keep my anxiety going and I have learned a lot about myself. Through IFS, I have identified why the anxious part of my mind functions and does it's job (it's to protect me from feeling hurt ... which is usually at the core of most behaviors we do, even those we think are destructive). We have been exploring the parts of my personality and mind that got hurt because if we can heal those parts, the anxiety does not have to always be doing it's job to protect it. It sounds confusing, but when you put it into practice, it is extremely helpful and eye-opening for me. The compassionate lens IFS uses also helped me release some of my shame and guilt, as well as self-criticism about why I have struggled to get over this anxiety. Having compassion and patience for myself was healing in and of itself.
The sensorimotor psychotherapy adds another level to it. I can really get in touch with these parts of myself that got hurt and that trigger the anxiety to kick in and access them at a deeper level. There are a lot of therapists out there who really believe trauma and pain get stuck in our body to some extent, and by using motion and sensation, we can access these traumas and work through them. It has helped me get in touch with things I never even knew had an effect on me today as an adult and has been really helpful.
Here's the thing in my opinion. CBT is extremely helpful for symptom management. It is evidence-based and supported by research. I believe it is helpful to an extent and have worked with people using CBT. Some people have felt they were cured by it and I believe them. For me, it wasn't enough. I knew my thinking was distorted. I actively tried to challenge my beliefs and put it into practice. It helped me make some progress, but I did not feel it hit the deeper issues that gave me anxiety in the first place. I think THAT is the true core of why some people get stuck.
swgrl09
You know what I call CBT is different and has five steps. So far I have not found anyone doing more than three with some delving into core beliefs, but often not. Terry says the same so we are looking for anyone who has done all five steps of course but why CBT is so watered down is more important. And you are certainly right, if you don't deal with the root of the problem it comes back or doesn't go in the first place.
I think with enough input we could create something that works with the right variations for everyone. Have it online and free.
If PTSD is bad enough it gets shuffled to a part of memory that has no access key for survivals sake. What does have a key is that it happened. By filling in the blanks, by replaying the trauma watered down and slowly increasing the facts a person can either open the key or replace the memory and get rid of the black hole that appears every time a person gets the "it happened thought". The problem with black holes is Amygdala can't work with them, it needs negative or positive so it runs wild looking for an answer that isn't there. This can create anything from all day anxiety as it searches or bad panic
I agree with you, a lot of people get a watered down CBT for many reasons.
Currently working in the field, it is frustrating with the limitations we have, be it insurance only paying for certain amount of visits, even then only providing 50 minutes at a time, having an insane amount of paperwork and not enough time to spend with clients, stress and pressure on providers to reach productivity standards or you get fired, and having the focus be on money and money alone. It is all backwards because if you treat people correctly and tailor treatment to the individual, you reduce recidivism and the need for people to return to higher levels of care, that in turn are more expensive for insurance companies to pay for. But that's an argument for another day ... don't get me started :)
There are models that access those trauma memories that are trapped in the brain, seemingly without a key. EMDR has been shown to be one of those models. There are providers in the IFS community, the model that has been helpful to me, and the sensorimotor psychotherapy community, doing research to demonstrate that they also have this ability. I'll have to look into it more, as I haven't had time to keep up with what has been going on. I have heard about trauma-based yoga being used for veterans with PTSD to access and release some of these memories. I also looked into ART, Accelerated Resolution Therapy, which is similar to EMDR with eye movements and the client rebuilds the memory in a different, safer way. We do this in IFS, be it accessing a trauma from childhood and having the person change the memory over time (have an adult be there to support them when they were unsafe, have them take over the situation and take control, whatever works for that person). The eye-movement therapies help access and alter those stuck spots for some reason.
So on a personal level, I needed more than CBT because I needed that deeper shift. I am still working on it. It is a long journey, it takes time, effort, commitment, and unfortunately in the USA it takes money, which also has gotten in the way. I am now paying out of pocket and it is a hit, but I found a therapist who works well with me and am trying to make it work. It sounds like the CBT you went through provided that for you as well, and I am glad that it did.
PanicAttackGurl
17-05-15, 03:24
I did online CBT, 12 weeks without a therapist and then did it again for another 12 weeks showing my progress to a psychiatrist who highly approved of the online course. During the course of CBT, I have had many health issues and was concerned Dr Google was giving me HA. After a week of self talk learned in CBT, I was able to stop Dr Google from killing me off each and every day by being able to ignore Dr Google. I currently have many health issues and see Drs every other week. As for my Anxiety and Panic attacks, I haven't had one for many months and the last one was medicine induced. I do have some underlying anxiety, but its minor. This is a bonus to me as I am currently going through a divorce that is very ugly, while dealing with cancer, copd and valve prolapse with leakage in my heart.
Honestly, in my humble opinion, the CBT is what has helped me the most. There are occasional nights I listen to sleep hypnosis, but vary rarely nowadays.
I did try tapping at the request of a friend of a friend and laughed my way through it because I could not take it serious enough. I do not know if that works.
swgrl09
There is a thing called going in the back door. Since each neuron is connected to a thousand others there are multiple pathway possibilities. In fact important information uses pathways that are twinned. This shows on fMRI. The new function MRI. Twinning makes them twice as fast. It is possible to ride on the back of something related to bypass a blocked gate. I do this with names because when I lost my spleen I got damage from loss of blood. It is embarrassing not being able to remember a name.
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PanicAttackGurl
That course is more than the watered down version that is often no more than exposure. I think though that 12 weeks is not enough time to do it justice but it is something you can do on your own.
Red said no one from here has logged in to do it. But they might still be able to read it, I'll check.
So just to clarify, is this thread a discussion about what has worked and hasn't worked for people, or are you trying to design a model off our responses? I'm just a bit confused!
For me I have a five step program that works except I don't have OCD, HA or depression. Cognitive restructuring, the fourth step should work for them, but there may be different coping skills. I still think core beliefs, which are often passed over, play a role. Anxiety and panic are a function of the mind based on memory, no matter where that memory comes from. The question is where did that memory come from and why have you chosen to use it when their are other choices. Different therapies may work on this choice making.
But this is also to lump therapies in one place so that people know what is available besides CBT. Hence the title of the thread.
Secondly it is also to get some positive posts in among the, what word can I use, discouraging maybe. Those posts are real but do give a sense that there is no answer and no cure. I think there is and want to know what it is.
If we did put together something that worked from this it would be so different would anyone do it. With anxiety people are scared, scared of their medication side effects, scared of any change that will increase their anxiety, scared of any question that will get them thinking scary thoughts. I've seen that deer in the headlights look and been there. That, which way do I jump look. That just leave me alone, can I please just die feeling.
Positive posts would add some direction and show it doesn't have to be like that. Unfortunately those who get better tend to leave and get on with their life. I know three people who have done that since I have been here. How many before and how many in the future. Wanting them to stick around is greedy on my part because they could post positive. Still the object is to get better and live a normal life.
So if we and I say we, because this is about us, not me, could formulate something that worked without the need of a therapist what would we do with it. It would just be another self help program. To be catchy and sell (even if free) it would have to be catchy and offer people what they want, not what they need. I have a book, it isn't published and never will be but it is free. At 47 pages it is just an outline of things to look up on the internet to fill it out. And yes I will be adding the therapies people talk about to it this coming winter when I have time. Off the deep end exposure will not be in it but ERP will be. Writing a book without just babbling is a lot of work.
I have questioned why I'm still here putting in time I could use elsewhere. It is rather simple really, I will never have another panic attack but I am also stable enough to remember how bad they were without spinning out of control. Every day I think that there are people going through that yet. People with less than half a life that could have a whole one. But worse is the number who give up because nothing they know works, nothing they have been offered works. (for them anyway) It would be nice to have something that worked for everyone, but even if we did, what would we do with it.
So it goes back to input on therapies and positive experiences for the most parts butalso what hasn't worked. There may be an answer why.
PanicAttackGurl
17-05-15, 19:58
So, I got a watered down version of CBT? I'd say that's the icing on the cake today, but I'd lick it off. I'm not concerned of it being a watered down version because, "hey, I'm getting by just fine. My question however remains, what would my progress be if I had a full CBT course instead of a watered down version? Would I be 100% instead of the 98% recovered I feel? Would the underlying minor anxiety be gone?
I'm ready to invest the time needed to do that. Also, once I'm 100% recovered, I won't bail out of here, but my posts will be much more positive and I might be able to help others.
No no, you didn't get a watered down version, the UK and most of the US, even Canada has a watered down version. Because of the time factor. That program is good, but there are things I would add still and things I would change based on new facts is all.
You know 12 weeks was not enough time so how can 8 weeks of therapy do anything.
To the best of my knowledge you are doing the whole thing. But the year isn't up yet is it and the added stress is going to add to the time factor. You will get that extra 2%. You are incentive. Many would love to be 98%. And they don't have the stress load you have.
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Bump
PanicAttackGurl
17-05-15, 23:23
I think I will add mindfulness to my CBT self therapy and see what happens. Unless I'm instructed to sit on floor cross legged and hum omm then I'm good to go. :roflmao:
I would, you might find you are already doing it or some of it. I was looking at something on top tips some one five starred and I can't see why.
I find any type of meditation is easier for me when I add movement, so I do yoga. I found an online free yoga channel on youtube that I really like - called Yoga with Adrienne. When I focus on breathing with movement, it is much easier for me to relax.
PanicAttackGurl
18-05-15, 00:31
Thank you swgrl,
I need a sitting chair type of yoga. Back injury prevents me from being limber and copd prevents me from getting out of breath. I'm looking on youtube now for that. :shrug::doh::blush:
Davit, what has a 5 star? I'm starting on the Palousse(sp?) mindfulness course. :bighug1:
On top tips two that are the same very old posts, 2007.
Here goes my story.
I was diagnosed with General Anxiety Disorder a year ago after a bad Car Accident.
I also suffered from Health Anxiety and have always had OCD issues.
I would say I was about 80% cured, which can fall back during a blip to 60% and sometimes I may even be 90%. But, I do lead an almost normal Life.
I got no help professionally, apart from on here.
I made the decision to fight it and WANT to get better and live my Life rather than the Anxiety take over and lead it for me. (I think this is very important).
I firstly gave myself time to recover by dismissing anything stressful in my Life, cutting down on work and chores, changing my routine, taking up Yoga, attending massage therapy sessions and finally seeking my own private Therapist for Counseling as the NHS advised that I could wait for up to 1 year!
I also took on the attitude to fight and push through any barriers of fear and used bits of CBT to cope with scenarios that would Panic me.
I also listened to my body and when I was tired, I would rest, if I was hungry, I would eat; no matter what the time of day or night.
I would say that my improvement began after 6 months, but I still have a great fear of driving and that needs work and I am also fearful when I am on my own.
I challenge myself now and give myself goals; which 9 times out of ten are successful.
Just to point out how bad I was and how far I have come.
One year ago; I could not put a sentence together, could hardly walk, could not face any person, but my Partner. Had horrendous pain shooting through my body with muscle twitches constantly taking over my body. Did not sleep, just an hour here and there. Could not eat very well. Had hair loss and crying all of the time.
Did not breath properly, and as a result had permanent stiffness in my shoulders and neck. Severe head pain like I have never known. Blurred vision and dizziness.
Nightmares when I did sleep. Incontinence; which is very embarrassing. Super senses. Cramps. Pulsating veins. Confusion with daily tasks. A feeling and Doom and Depression. (There were loads more, but that gives you some idea).
I would say that I was around 20% functional.
What do I think worked for me?
Most importantly, the WANTING to get better.
CBT and re-thinking your thoughts.
This Forum, because you feel so alone and you can compare your symptoms and share advice.
Yoga and Meditation.
Gentle Exercise, especially walking.
Changing you Life and outlook on Life.
I have to point out that I took no Medication for either my Anxiety, Depression or Pain.
I still have a way to go to be cured, but I feel that your way of Life and Living conditions have a lot to do with your progression.
I could leave this Forum, but I have chosen to stay on and help others as much as time allows me. (Although I do still have a few issues myself, I could cope.) :)
Carnation
You have the key to doing what it takes. All in one word "want". More people need to use that word.
I have had all those symptoms even the incontinence. Some times I just wanted to give up. I'm glad I didn't. It is hard living when all you have to live for is a cat. A partner would have been nice. I love to drive now.
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I forgot to mention, I hit a moose and for years it was hard to drive past that point. It really shook me up.
Oh Davit, how could I forget my Cat!!!
He was a big part in my recovery too. :hugs:
I have adopted a stray that showed up half starved a week after my favourite died. He is a sweety and this is definitely home to him. The other cat is going deaf and blind he might not make the summer so I'll be down to one.
Davit, I'm sorry to hear about your cat's health. We lost a kitten at Christmas time and it was so hard. I still have one who I love, even if she is a loud-mouth in the morning.
They have a good life here. Thomas was 18 as was Deedee. Theodore is 14 which is good since he started off poor, he was going under the hammer literally so I brought him home.
He should have been on his mother longer. I have the odd mature barn can visit but not kittens, I think hawks get those. My cats all get special food so they don't get stones if they are fixed.
Cats hold a special place in my heart, it is actually a transfer disorder, but a mild one, I have seen it extreme in a lady that lived with me for two years. My jasper cat only shuts up when he is sleeping.
Wow, they do have good lives, long too! We had a 1 year old kitten who got sick at the end of last year with Feline Infectious Peritonitis. It's almost always fatal in cats under 2. She must have been exposed at the shelter we got her, they don't test for it bc it's so rare. Thankfully our 2nd cat was old enough to get over the virus.
I hear you about your jasper, our cat is the most vocal cat I have ever met. Never lets me sleep!
MyNameIsTerry
20-05-15, 05:58
Thank you swgrl,
I need a sitting chair type of yoga. Back injury prevents me from being limber and copd prevents me from getting out of breath. I'm looking on youtube now for that. :shrug::doh::blush:
Davit, what has a 5 star? I'm starting on the Palousse(sp?) mindfulness course. :bighug1:
Cool, let us know how that course goes.
I don't know about yoga but I do know that Master Kam Chuen Lam has a book for Qi Gong for anxiety. All the poses are seated, lying or standing still. I've picked up a copy and the following exercises are in it which you may be able to Google:
Coming up for air (standing)
Sitting up (sitting)
Resting the golden ball (sitting)
Rolling the golden ball (sitting)
Your inner reservoir (sitting)
Standing and rolling the golden ball (standing)
Gathering your energy (standing)
Holding on and letting go (standing)
Arm swinging (standing)
Opening the curtains (standing)
Tensing and relaxing (standing)
Working with a wall (standing)
Clenching and relaxing (standing)
Spreading and relaxing (standing)
Standing and opening (standing)
Resting while standing still (standing)
Using the rolling pin (sitting)
Holding the golden ball at your belly (standing)
Expanding the golden ball (standing)
Golden ball energy stance (standing)
Coming back (standing)
Overwhelmed, lying down (lying)
In the middle of the night (lying)
Giant strides (sitting)
Bubbling spring (sitting)
Waves on the rocks (sitting)
Fearless rider (sitting)
Crushing the flanks (sitting)
Holding two forces (sitting)
There are also some massages:
Neck and face self massage
Soothing your back
Easing headaches
Energy circuit
Thats what they are called and the order they are in. So, you might be able to find them from that although some may be his own. The standing positions seem to be mostly using arm movements from a neutral position of straight legs at shoulder width or on one or two it shows a slight bend in the knees. I haven't tried them yet, I'm reading it at the moment.
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Where was I at the beginning of my relapse?
I have used my relapse as it has been much worse than the initial breakdown. My first breakdown left me with sleep routine issues, difficulties with change or the unknown so all the typical stuff really. Social situations were difficult and I didn't like eating in front of others but I had that before a lot of the time but now it became an anxious issue rather than a dislike. I think the eating issue was more about being self conscious as I have yellow teeth from all the antibiotics I had when I was young (before they found that out and banned them!).
I had various OCD behaviours from childhood but they didn't cause any problems or cause any anxiety and were few & far between. I have mentioned these in my later response to Carnation below.
After my first recovery I resolved the sleep routine issues and regained most if not all of my previous confidence except I wouldn't travel long distances for work anymore due to the previous nausea issues & didn't want the old patterns of working very long hours with very early starts that could mess my sleep up again. Once I started backsliding towards my relapse all the old issues came back plus I was getting pretty obsessive about my work.
These are the main issues at my worst in relapse:
- Couldn't leave the house whether to go for a walk or even in the front yard although I could manage the back yard with a real struggle.
- Touching 100+ objects per day. This would be multiple times, see the issue about odd & even numbers, totals, etc below.
- Touching routines extending to my body e.g. I would touch my leg, hands, fingers, face, etc. The issue of odd & even numbers, totals, etc below would also be applied when brushing my teeth, using toilet paper or soap or when splashing water on, etc.
- Checking windows, door handles, oven door, asthma inhalers, boxes, cupboards, drawers, books I opened & closed again, literally any item I could touch may have this checking issue. Everything had to feel "just right."
- Issues with symmetrical thinking on many objects but strangely not all of them. I could live in clutter but certain objects MUST be pointing in the correct direction or be lined up, etc.
- Having loads of intrusive thoughts that were harm based and also magical in nature which combined with imagery and touching/checking routines. The “just right” issue with touching & checking applied to this. Images of certain faces meant the rituals were needed and if the face was someone I didn’t get on with I would need to usually replace it with my parent’s faces. I would believe I was wishing harm on my parents with the imagery hence the ritual resolved it otherwise something would happen to them. This extended to the “liking” of the thoughts issue with happy emotions involved. There were more issue in here though including with strangers. Some sexual stuff too.
- Urges were present a lot that made me believe I had to do something straight away as I couldn’t wait.
- Hoarding money and believing I always had to hit a target or I would be destitute later in life. As one target was achieved another would be created and the old one would be associated with being destitute again.
- Counting the swallows when I drank.
- Drinking and eating in even or odd numbers that added up to certain numbers or totals between multiple routines.
- Combining counting with touching & checking rituals so they were completed to even or odd numbers in the same manner as with the eating & drinking.
- Only drink at allotted times no matter how thirsty.
- Double checking emails, texts, refreshing frames for hours, endless surfing of things I probably didn’t need to know, some macabre at times.
- Highly anxious 24/7.
- Triggered by phones ringing, messages left, a text message coming through, an email coming through, seeing I had written messages, a letter being received, seeing someone I knew, my brother coming around, watchin TV, eating (this one was causing panic more than most), any appointment would be on my mind for several weeks before, etc. Pretty much anything. Because I was anxious all day it meant that my anxiety attached itself to everything I was doing whether washing, cleaning my teeth, even going to the toilet! It was very much about sensations so anything different was a possible threat. I would monitor my breathing and find it difficult to keep it going which caused a lot of muscle tension and I felt like I could stop breathing or that breathing was too hard to even do due to lack of energy. Certain sounds could be a trigger, anything unexpected could make me jump. Eating different foods to that which was suspected on the correct day of the week would make me more anxious.
Then I started going out again walking the dog with my dad. This was very hard for a few weeks and then I started going out on my own and gradually extended the journeys until I could get to the supermarkets. As soon as I could get there, I went into supermarkets and stayed in there for at least an hour no matter how sick, dizzy or anxious I felt. I made a point of talking to people in there fairly quickly into this routine too so I could avoid my issues with this when I had my first breakdown as I was walking outdoors only back then and struggled going into places later because of it.
Now I was getting out my OCD moved to also add:
- Always walking the same routines, even trying to use the same footsteps if possible.
- Having to step on the coloured "no dog fouling" signs that were painted on the pavement.
- Reading ALL lampost signs for their numbers, any roadsigns, car reg plates I could see (often front & back, even if moving), always checking the same cars & shops on each walk, touching certain objects, etc.
-The outdoor routines on my walks turned into multiples just like with the eating & drinking except that they would be lower numbers. I started head bobbing to make the reading "stick" in my head and it had to feel "just right" or it would be repeated.
- This further extended to always checking the same items in the shops, reading the labels in the same manner as the lamposts, walking the same way around the shops, using the same tills, etc.
I could keep going really. I didn’t have hardly any of this OCD with my first breakdown but the walking routes could usually be the same but were more easily broken later.
Why was I this bad?
Well, I had none of the above OCD otherwise until I went up to the standard dose of Duloxetine. I put it down to the increased adrenaline that was giving me. Things felt different than the first breakdown, some things weren't as bad but others were worse and many things were new.
I had never recovered properly from my first breakdown and my GP was pushing me to return to work (which was a good thing as I needed it) but he also pushed me to come off Citalopram and I wasn't ready so I started to see the signs within months and the full relapse came at 6 months after about 5 weeks of hell. (especially the under sleeping of the last 10 days that was the last straw). My work was very stressful as I was doing work I shouldn't have been because the company wouldn't resolve issues with me being on my own so much I felt like a contractor. I had to learn processes that no one new how to do which were of a regulatory nature (people left or retired and the company didn't succession plan) and this meant everyone waiting for that work to be done pounced on me and I became the only person at a multinational able to do it which was a ludicrous situation! My work was always planned out 12+ months ahead and further projects pulled me in so I was drowning for a long time. I asked for help and they spent the next 6 months doing nothing aside from giving me more work!
What helped me?
Calming breathing technique helped a little but did nothing for my specific breathing issues which were combined with my asthma.
Progressive Muscle Relaxation (PMR) helped a little.
My self help Wellbeing Practitioner gave me various leaflets, workbooks and information sheets that helped me to understand the basics. I had 4 20 minute telephone sessions with her which really achieved nothing as she had said from the start that my issues were far too complex but their process meant that you couldn’t access CBT without passing through this stage first. I had already waited 3 times the target waiting time of 30 days and then was told I had to wait 3 months for CBT after completing a stage they said wouldn’t be much use to me. So, I had to push my GP again and he referred me to the mental health team who work on more advanced cases (Level 4) who put pressure on them to speed up my CBT which worked. I would have be happy to wait 3 months normally but not when 60 days of incompetence on my GP’s part in referring me had added to it so I pushed and said I would go private even if it was used for 3 months as a stop gap. The CBT people said no chance, wait 3 months to the mental health team nurse and the next day I had a call to arrange an appointment! So, she must have taken it higher to put pressure on the service manager who had refused.
CBT was useful in that it got me started. I learned about panic cycles, how thoughts feelings sensations & emotions all worked together and fed each other, basic ERP, Behavioural Experiments (although they weren’t explained enough for me to adapt them beyond a certain point), understanding about Safety Behaviours, how to deal with environmental triggers in a basic manner, etc.
My CBT was mostly behavioural in nature. Progress was limited and I hit various brick walls which there seemed no really way around so I left feeling it was a bit of a limp therapy.
My therapist introduced me to Mindfulness later on in therapy though and this did have a greater effect but it took some time.
The first few weeks didn’t really do anything and at first it made me anxious just doing it (I felt the same with breathing techniques & PMR – it was new, change, uncertainty, etc) . I felt paradoxical to actively do something to think about my thoughts & bodily sensations.
Over 1-2 months I started to feel more into it though and I remember telling my therapist that I felt better for it. After several months I was out walking through a green area between estates where there was an old bridge & stream and I felt that I wanted to sit down. I sat, watched the insects grass & birds, listened to the sounds, ran the long grass through my fingers, smelled the air & plants, etc. I felt truly free for about 45 minutes until I needed to get further on to do my shopping yet I felt a lot better the rest of the day and didn’t really know what had happened. This was repeated for a day or two. My GAD reduced which meant some of my rituals disappeared, others reduced and I could now work on them easier which couldn’t be achieved at all in CBT prior to this.
Around this time I quit my job. I had been fighting to get them to make reasonable adjustments and despite the backing of their own occupational health team, they wouldn’t. They got to a point where they wouldn’t even respond to the nurse dealing with me when they had initiated him getting involved! I won a capability appeal and launched a large grievance complaint against some of the people involved covering the things they had not followed correctly per HR policy, the notes they had “altered” between me signing things, their lack of action over a long period of time and complete denial there was even a problem when they had acknowledged it in writing on several occasions. I won the grievance but nothing changed. They wouldn’t even comment on my manager “losing” paperwork, a disciplinary offence alone, that I had never seen which I knew he had lied about as they needed my signature and despite challenging the managers hearing my case to produce it, it fell on deaf ears. I was faced with escalating this up to the next 2 levels of senior managers who all played golf together so I knew I would need to take it to a solicitor to get anywhere. After a talk with my parents I decided I couldn’t change a culture issue on my own, I had to prioritise my health. I quit and my therapist said she thought it was the best thing to do, but was not allowed to influence me, and said she had thought my CBT would not work whilst that mess was ongoing. I think it went on for about 13 months in the end and covered most of my CBT period. I had a long CBT period though of over a year but it was because I took gaps of a month at a time and longer in some phases to allow for complicated goals to be worked on. My CBT had started about 6 months or so after I went off sick.
6 months down the line and I felt my attitude shift to being more compassionate thoughts about others and I started to work on the CBT goals I couldn’t get past. My intrusive thoughts had all but been resolved at this point too.
I joined a charity walk-in group at the suggestion of my therapist to give me more social interaction. I think she also did this though because she was conscious my therapy wasn’t progressing very well, this was a good call. I attended these sessions weekly for about 15+ months and learnt more about CBT than when I actually had CBT!
My sleeping pattern began to badly slip though after a short period of illness and I couldn’t make the sessions and within 6 months I joined NMP. From here I started to research my condition a hell of a lot from reading what people were going through & talking to them and also from reading online reputable sources. This was most helpful for my OCD because my therapist never really explained my different forms as she only concentrated on the standard thought-feeling-emotion-sensation issue. There was no core belief work, cognitive distortions, cognitive restructuring, etc. I did my reading to understand this. I also spent a lot of time following up peoples issues by reading around about it whether I was responding or not. This filled a lot of gaps in for me and allowed me to pass this information on in a more complete state.
More recently I have had success with adding high strength Omega 3 EPA & DHA >800mg per day and a 500mg vitamin C up to twice a day. At first my anxiety increased for several weeks but my depression lifted (hence why I think I focussed more on the anxiety) but after about 6 weeks this levelled back out again. My mood has been more stable due to this than from the Duloxetine which I believe has been the cause of my anxiety cycling issue. I stopped these supplements at Xmas 2014 for 3 weeks and by the end of it I was destabilised again! I added them and within days I was more stable again but for another couple of months I experienced greater levels of adrenaline & anxiety when my regular blips came (every 7-10 days on the cycle).
I have walked daily to get out and around people unless an event like a family gathering got in the way. This walking routine did actually become a major problem for me and I felt I had to do it so at Xmas 2013 I stayed in purposely for 3 solid months without leaving the house (other than to go in the back yard, round the side of the house, etc) and then I restarted my walking. This helped to break it up and whilst it was hard to start again, I did find my mind was less tied to the routes.
So, that’s most of it. There is still lots to do but I’m not rushing this as I am financially stable with living at home and I didn’t dare move out and potentially lumber myself financially plus with the cash hoarding issue I have some freedom as long as I live on a budget. This is not ideal but it saves me being forced to jobhunt when I may not have been well enough to and just having a further relapse on top of the one I’m still recovering from.
I have left out the physical symptoms stuff, I think we all know about that anyway.
I consider myself more at 60-70% at this stage. I still have some rituals but most of the above are either gone or reduced significantly. I have newer obsessions over daily routine though which have become the current focus after removing more rituals recently as some started to come back when I went backwards for a while. I am still too focussed on some physical symptoms which need more work but I was in a terrible mess before and I see it as a long term recovery from a long term illness so it will be bit by bit and chipping away until I can look back and see it has all been resolved.
I have plans for various activities, increasing my Mindfulness study, volunteering, physical fitness, etc.
Currently I am diagnosed with GAD. As you can see from above, I clearly have OCD. Sadly, whilst my therapist reported it, my GP seemed to never read my reports and would not refer me to Level 4 therapy as my therapist advised. She also said I could have Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) as I had the minimum 4 traits but said she couldn’t make that diagnosis. My GP won’t refer and said I could pay to go private but I would work it out on my own (trying to give me some confidence I think) and at this point I disengaged and haven’t been back for about 20+ months now as the appointments were more for his benefit than mine. I did my own research about OCPD and found that the traits alone are not indicative of it, there has to be a mindset of not accepting the advice of others and that’s not me. To an extent I can be like that and I was like that more at work, but I had to be as the environment was a mess and very few people seemed to have the experience to get things done, but not to the extent of the OCPD person who believes their behaviour to be correct - I know mine is flawed.
MyNameIsTerry
20-05-15, 11:16
I think I will add mindfulness to my CBT self therapy and see what happens. Unless I'm instructed to sit on floor cross legged and hum omm then I'm good to go. :roflmao:
I think you're safe there, I think thats more Transcendental Meditation (TM). You can use things like "singing bowls" to get the bell sounds if you are really into Mindfulness, I think the TM lot prefer lots of "omming" :wacko:
Terry, that's interesting about the numbers thing, I had never heard of this before.
Would you class yourself as a 'Perfectionist?
I didn't go in to my OCD, but I believe that it is a huge contribution of how I have become today.:ohmy:
From a child, I knew I had issues.
I have a very vivid imagination; it says so on my School Reports. But, it the same time, it has allowed me to be very creative in my Life.
I.e. Writing Music and playing Instruments. Poetry. Drawing. Cooking. Window Dressing and so on.
But, my imagination has also haunted me. To the point of hallucinations and Panic.
I like to be in control; not control things, but control of my Life. I don't like anyone else driving; even though I can not drive anymore. I like to cook my own food.
I am definitely OCD on Hygiene and do not like to have contact with strangers incase I catch something. 'Food', is the main one here.
I also have a thing with alignment. It bothers me. Curtains not equal on either side. Not equal spaces between ornaments or they just don't flow to the eye. (This is why I did Window Dressing). All cupboards and drawers have to be organized in their place and all tins of food have to have their labels facing front ways.
I don't mind clutter, but it has to be organized clutter.
I also like to be prepared for any emergency. I need to know if there is a flood, fire, earthquake, that I am prepared. I also panic over Money in the future.
I like to be organized and pre-plan ahead and a change of arrangements bothers me.
Being late also throws me in to Panic. (Unfortunately, my Partner is always late).
I have had a phobia with food for most of my Life, but I am now a healthy weight and have it under control. I hate noisy eaters!
I have a phobia with Thunder and Lightning and think I am going to die!
And when I was a young child, I used to hold my breath until I went blue in the face.
I am a very addictive person. If I like something, I want more and more until I am sick of it. And I am very competitive to the point of pushing myself too far.
My Father had the checking doors, fires, oven, windows thing.
Do you think it could be hereditary?
Also do you believe in Colour Therapy, because I find that if I am wearing certain colours, I have a bad day; or is this me being Paranoid?
Davit, all my Cats have been rescued or strays. I only have one at the moment and it is a Norwegian Forest. He acts just like a dog. He weighs over a stone and he follows me everywhere. He came to me in a storm and I said it was a 'Gift from God'. :smile:
My oldest cat lived to be 21!
MyNameIsTerry
21-05-15, 04:37
Small world, Carnation, my GF has got a rescued Norwegian Forest. He's a right fluffball in his winter coat and to think they roam wild in their home region. He's always after attention and loves lying on you often staring into your eyes for ages.
Yes, I am a bit of a perfectionist and if I recall rightly thats on the criteria list for OCPD.
I have always hd a thing for speciali items of clothing. I didn't make me feel anxious but I just liked wearing certain ones above the rest. I can remember in my childhood I would have a slight "tug" on my emotions/thinking if I couldn't wear the favourites but it wasn't much.
I also have trouble discarding things which I recall was also on the OCPD list (see how criteria alone can be very misleading as loads of us would have it?!) which includes old statements, even bits of paper with things written on. I would save things from childhood when I could probably get rid of them. I had a big sling out over the last 2 years to get rid of a lot of it...the charity shops were very happy! :D. I would flick the light switch a couple of times and hold my finger to the bottom part of the switch for a few seconds until it felt "right". I would replace the top on my pen several times for the same reasons.
Noisy eating really bothered me when I was going through the worst of it but it doesn't now.
Since I was a child I have eaten mostly by working through each element of the food on the plate rather than tucking into it all and always most of the veg first or eggs before chips but meat is generally last unless I have things like carrots or peas which I like less. I suspect a lot of this is learnt though.
I do also tend to reach for the same types of forks unless I have no choice. Another one from childhood that has been learnt.
I also did skin picking as a child which has continued but it seems less due to anxiety, its more just a habit and its not bad like many people who suffer with it.
I've always had an issue with having food in my teeth too which seems to be linked to my self consciousness due to my yellow teeth so this is probably more where the eating in front of others comes in. Plus I used to have an issue with food touching my lips or my hands being covered in it as I viewed it as bad in some way or perhaps a bit filthy. So I ate without that and if I had to use my fingers I would wipe them quickly or have to rinse them to feel they were clean. Most of this has gone now though.
I suspect a lot of these types of behaviours were learnt from home due to misinterpretation e.g. "eat your greens", "wipe your mouth after eating and rinse your hands", etc.
None of that caused me any anxiety as a child though. I did suffer a few weeks with anxiety in my final year where I was going to the toilet to try for a number 2 even though I had already been. This was always when I was due to leave and at the time I thought nothing of it.
Thats the key for me - I thought nothing of it. It was another 15 years until my GAD started and even then none of this OCD exploded. It was only when I went on Duloxetine that this really got out of hang quite badly.
I don't think I've heard of colour therapy. What does that entail?
My mum always brought us up like boy scouts "you should have this, that & the other just incase X happens". You end up carrying a load more stuff around with you. I can remember having several of most things due to this e.g. pens, pencils, etc.
If I was travelling I would take an extra bottle of water or too much food. etc.
My dad does do a bit of checking with light switches, windows & locks. Nothing like OCD though, just more for security. I doubt he realises like I didn't as a child.
I know that anxiety can be passed on in genes as science has found this. However, if you read about epigenetics it states that there are so many cell lives involved in this in the parents genes so as I understand it, they can recover and restore their own genes and then it won;t be passed on. Even if it is passed on, this science as shown that these genes remain inactive until a process to activate them occurs, namely methylation. They state that genes are blueprints but they are actually changed due to environment. It may sound a bit mad but how did each species evolve in the first place? To its environment over many generations. Those changes were huge leaps, nothing like this as we are talking more minor things that we can change within ourselves. I've seen a study in children with anxiety where they used the methylation process to reduce anxiety by returning methylation to its normal range. Its interesting stuff and its had a big focus in cancer research so other areas like mental health have been pulled along by that. Thats as far as I have got with that stuff though. I do know that methylation can be influenced by the same factors that influence mental health issues e.g. diet, exercise, stress, certain vitamin & mineral deficiencies and other disorder such as thyroid ones. So, a lot of the stuff we talk about on here anyway.
My dad had depression for 2 years in his thirties. The interesting thing is that I wouyld have been born in his thirties and I have a brother & sister who are 9 & 10 years older so they would have been born in his twenties. They don't have any mental health issues. However, I primarily have anxiety disorders over depression so I don't know whether there could be a genetic link there and why my condition differs. Maybe he was misdiagnosed? I know he has mentioned anxiety to me but his primary issue seemed more depression based. I haven't asked whether I was born before or after this though.
There is also some evidence behind a parent with OCD having a child with BDD.
Fascinating. Really find this interesting.
My Partner eats his food in the same way.
Least favorite first, like the vegetables and the best to last.
I asked him why he does this and he said he doesn't know, he has always done this.
He also picks his skin and scratches his head. When I mean scratch; he is well in there digging deep in the centre of his crown, so much that he has caused a bald patch.
He also has the No2 toilet thing. (Hey, you could be Brothers?)
I used to have problems with eating in front of someone. I couldn't seem to chew or swallow or sometimes even open my mouth. I put it down to my Anorexia, but maybe that was another issue. I was very self conscious and I mean VERY.
I had an extremely strict upbringing and as an only child you can imagine how that was. My Father had Victorian values and Mother was always sick, so he took charge most of the time. I basically was not even allowed to speak, so that did my confidence the world of good. :ohmy:
I have wondered whether Anxiety is build up from Childhood days, Genes or misfortunes in Life. The cause of Anxiety must be a question for all of us on here. :shrug:
Colour Therapy. Don't know all the ins and outs of it totally, but apparently we have a colour that makes us tick and that puts us in the right zone.
Apart from that, I know that is I wear certain colours, they can give you different emotions. Blue is supposed to be calming, black obviously is linked with Depression.
I always used to wear black, unknowingly to me was making my Depression worst, which I didn't know at the time, because I did not know I was suffering from Depression; I just went for the black clothes every day.
This is something I will look in to further, because there are colours that give you energy, confidence, and so on.
When I lived alone on Lake Athabasca routines were important, Nature can harm or kill you very fast. At -40 you can make no mistakes. This is not OCD. I like everything in it's place and labels forward because I'm disabled and like to be able to do things with a minimum of effort. This is not OCD. Here every label is in French and English. Mother nature is random. Because she has to be. A plant grows where a plant grows because it can. I'm learning to be random because I can. I tuck stuff in my flower beds because there is a bare spot with little concern for colour unless I have a choice. LOL I have garlic growing in a flower bed because it is the only place that doesn't get tilled in the spring. It is growing better there than anywhere.I have scarlet runner beans in a flower bed that climb the deck. They put nitrogen into the soil. I'm organic totally.
But there is very little between what I do and you do except because you could do things different it is OCD. I don't like noisy eaters. I have a preferred set of silverware. Dishes too.
Jasper isn't very pretty, his eyes are too close together and he has a scruffy coat for a siamese. He looks cross eyed but isn't. He is very good at keeping the vole population down though. Yet I don't know if he eats them. Ravens would clean them up if he doesn't.
Norwegian Forest are pretty, huge too. Jasper is 13 pounds in summer and 15 in winter.
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As for colour. I do not like blue. As kids we all had these blue parkas. I feel most comfortable with earth tones and will not even be buried in black. Going to be cremated anyway. I will wear black but it is not first choice. I eat fries first because they are not very good cold. I'm half French, we tend to eat one item at a time. I love asparagus, it doesn't wait for anything.
---------- Post added at 11:59 ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 ----------
I can not understand why more people do not have something positive to say. Do they not know it would be beneficial to their recovery.
Sorry Davit, apologies for steering off the subject and the main object that you are trying to achieve.
I think this Thread is a good idea, but more people need to post their experiences.
I don't know why not more people are posting on this????:shrug:
If it doesn't get response it can only mean that the majority think there is no cure or that what they are doing is good enough.
Maybe people are afraid to say the "wrong" thing here? It may not always be possible to maintain the positivity but this doesn't mean that people have "failed" in their attempts to improve the quality of their lives?
To be honest I don't believe that I can rid myself totally of anxiety/gad/ocd etc and I wouldn't want to lose my personality but my goal is to live comfortably and to be able to deal efficiently with my personal challenges as and when they arise. I think this is a very achievable target.
If somebody is happy/satisfied with what they are doing, their progress and their life that's brilliant, but if they aren't happy and their life is still ruled by anxiety then change is needed for recovery, it took me a long time to realize this.
You can recover fully, now i'm not saying this applies to everybody and every disorder because i couldn't possibly, for me personally positive thought is the key to everything.
I'm enough proof for myself that it is possible to turn things around and not just to the point of coping but actually living and living happily. I wish this for everyone, although understanding that not every situation is the same and everyone has different journeys to take.
I've had anxiety,HA, PTSD for years and i never took any medication(personal choice), I'm not 'against' it, i know it helps people and is needed with some to enable them to start the first stages of their recovery.
I'm the same with painkillers, i don't take them even when i'm in agony, only once or twice in my adult life have i took one and i think it's because i know it isn't a cure to what's causing the pain, it's just masking the pain and i don't like that idea. Just a weird thing i have.
Carnation
As the title says, ...............of interest. Anything of interest. Hell I think I wander more than most people.
Pulisa
I do believe I said this is our thread, not mine and for me I'd like to hear anything even if it is people telling me I'm out to lunch. (which I just had and which I'm not)
Do you think with all my technical threads and lingo that I scare people? There are no wrong questions, answers, comments or ideas. It is just a forum with a preferred format of positive, but that doesn't mean some one can't say that is wrong if they think so.
You would not have to change who you are but you might. Lets say the things you don't like about you are the root to all your anxiety etc. not your good points would they not be worth losing, would you not have a better personality? If you could get up each day ready to take on what ever comes and feeling happy just to be alive, if you could shelf all your worries as concerns instead would it not be worth it. 80% recovered is accepted as cured, I just think a person can get better. Sam is proving this as are other people. I don't think her personality has change other than for the better.
Sam
Positive is very good, and you are proving that, but you also want to. The two go together.
Thinking we are the way we are because that is how we are is false. We are the way we are because we learned to be that way. We can learn to be who we want to be. But who we want to be has to be realistic. Trading one reason for anxiety for another is not going to do anyone any good. My neighbours are happy millionaires. Even some of their money would improve my life, but not change my health issues. I'd rather be me and happy. Which I am.
I have noticed the change in you. And if people are honest they will say they have too. But never mind us, what about you husband and family, is anyone saying they want the old Sam back?
Sam, I am the same as you, in the sense of not taking Medication or Painkillers.
I choose not to because as you say 'The Masking' and I have a bit of a phobia about them. Despite my choice, I was still able to recover to my 80%.
My Partner does take Meds and Painkillers and that is his choice.
That is what Life is about; choice!
For me, I think I get confused and struggle to follow the direction the thread is going! I think that is just me being brain-fogged and tired though, nothing against the posts as I find them all interesting. I just don't know what else to contribute. I like reading what other people are saying has worked for them and would be interested to see more of it.
I don't know if I will ever be 100% "cured" if that even is a real possibility at all. I think that our experiences shape who we are, and you are definitely right that we can relearn things and function in a more positive way, however for me personally I don't know if I will ever be "cured" of health anxiety. The way it developed over time and worsened by events in my life, I can't unlive those. I can retrain my brain, but I can't forget what has happened and I guess that's why I don't think I will ever be cured completely. My goal is to be able to live happily and take each day as they come, not getting caught up in worry all the time. I want to enjoy life in spite of my fears. I know I can evolve and grow, thinking about it differently, but it will always be a part of me. I am working on being ok with that and accepting me for who I am.
I find acceptance is something challenging but can be so helpful when I am in a place where I can do it. People sometimes think acceptance is giving up, but it's not. It's being at peace with who I am, not beating myself up for having anxiety, taking care of myself, listening to my own needs, and still knowing what I need to do to get better as well. I have been reading up on acceptance and commitment therapy, a newer type of CBT. I like it, but kind of forgot to keep reading when I bought the book ... so I will do that again :blush:
swgrl
This is how the brain works and this is why you can be 100%. Things are not stored as they happened as episodes but as pieces and a code is used to put them together to make the episode. So actions like going to the doctor, going to the store, going to the dentist are not repeated, Lord knows we would have ran out of memory. A separate code is used to add dentist to the already going to. So code "a" uses the same neurons except different ones for doctor, dentist, store etc. These codes are negative or positive so hippocampus knows if they should go through Amygdala or bypass it. If you fear the dentist hippocampus will attach a negative code to the thought before storing it in memory. You need this negative code to access it and as such because it is negative, hippocampus alerts Amygdala (your fear centre) Emotions dictate how fast it reacts. It can be fast and confusing if fear is the emotion where as sad would make it slower but in alert still. Happy and it bypasses it. Not many people are happy about the dentist.
Now here is the interesting part. Positives can not open this code so to think about going to the dentist you need a negative thought and Hippocampus gets this out of memory. Usually as a core belief or past experience. It does this because it has no other Option. It can only use what it has. So right here it looks like you are hooped since Hippocampus can do nothing else. Wrong. It does what it does because it has no choice. Give it a choice. This is cognitive restructuring and it is the hard part, but it isn't a coping skill but a permanent change that will change how you see going to the dentist. (dentist is just an example) For every negative thought you have you want to build a positive one. The hard part is that it takes not one reason but ten to get this positive thought into memory. Hippocampus is very protective of it's negatives. All survival skills are negative, (fight or flight) So you work real hard and build a positive thought about the dentist And then (only then) you do the exposure by going to the dentist using a little CBT skill called "want to" which is positive. You can start by just driving there and going home. This because it wasn't bad is a positive start, then go sit in the office, explain to the receptionist what you are doing. Finally after doing this enough to feel reasonably comfortable and still feeling positive make the appointment. (this is exposure but not exposure because with this you can only think positive as soon as you think negative it fails) If the experience fails, and it might the first time because the negative is still the appropriate you can salvage most of it by thinking positive. This adds a positive code to it. So it splits because the thought of the actual failure is there too with a negative code, but at least you now have a choice although the choice is still loaded toward the negative. But again you need a negative to open it. So if you have been working hard and I do mean hard to be positive and think positive you have a better chance of using the positive choice. Again though you have to give memory a positive thought Hippocampus can use. But it is not just positive thoughts, but positive emotions to reduce the severity of Amygdala's reaction if you do open a negative thought.
Okay, it is a lot of work, but it is permanent where as coping skills are not. When you hear it said CBT works but you have to do it all the time it is not CBT.
Positive thoughts, positive emotions give you a positive attitude and this can not cause anxiety or panic because they need a negative to open. Over time without use the negative part fades because it's neurons are needed. Not totally. The fact it happened is remembered but exactly how, why or what it was is not.
I can remember having had horrendous panic attacks, but only pieces of them that are not enough to trigger any reaction. A few more months, maybe less and they will be gone, their neurons salvaged for something else. Salvaging unused neurons is a fact.
Now the honest part. It takes time usually six month to a year. Really dedicated people like Sam123 and PanicAttackGurl are doing it in less. Juanita who is not on here did it in 6 weeks. I took longer because I had no help. Medication can help ease the transition. As can coping skills designed to handle HA or OCD or what ever anxiety form you have. Terry has posted lots of information on these and core beliefs. You might want to look at the Triangle I posted in one of my threads.
MyNameIsTerry
22-05-15, 07:21
The right Amygdala is the fear centre but what about the left Amygdala? I understand that one is associated with more positive thoughts. So, does the Hippocampus also take a feed from there for the positive ones?
Also, by having positive experiences, don't you create new memories that the hippocampus can use which are positive-based? I take it that these then become the appropriate because they are being "fired" more often than the negative ones.
Swgrl - have you seen anything about Compassion Focussed Therapy?(CFT)
Terry Both Amygdala do the same thing but in different ways and in different ways in men and women. Women's mature 1 1/2 to 2 years faster, the left matures faster so that children can react to fear faster. Men were hunters, women protected the family men with a larger Amygdala tend to use aggression as a solution, women are more emotional. Men were more valuable so were protected and there was no need for the Amygdala to mature as soon. Women were berry pickers they needed to be able to fear sooner. Women react to a horror film with the left (emotional) men with the right. (fMRI) Both react to negatives, but in different ways. The left is more thought, the right is more action this is why women get more anxiety and panic than men who tell it to .....off. Men do exposure therapy better than women, women do restructuring better than men. Positives do not go through either Amygdala. Hippocampus directs positives strait to Hypothalamus. Positives can not cause panic, a negative attached to a positive can. So fighting anxiety allows Hypothalamus to search for an answer in associated memory since you are ignoring the one it is trying to give you. if it finds a negative associated with the positive and uses it, it then passes through Amygdala, which one depends on Emotion. If you go to a happy event with a negative attitude you will have negative's pass through Amygdala when there shouldn't be any.
Yes if you build strong positives they will become appropriate and not go through Amygdala. You will still react to danger the same way, especially new danger. but it will be short lived because positive thought will not follow it and the adrenalin rush will be smaller and dissipate faster. which in turn will not cause negative thought. Acceptance is appropriate here, EG: I had another panic attack, so what. That is rather neutral but better than a negative thought. Pretty hard to think positive about a panic attack. It could be done though. So the Amygdala is only a tool, it needs a reason and that reason has to be negative. We no longer have much need for strong negatives (over caution) but we do because we live in a negative world unless we choose not to, but we are social creatures so we react the way we do to be social and accepted. Some people brought up to think positive never have anxiety, some though have trauma and the support is so negative they get a strong reaction from Amygdala and here begins there life of anxiety and panic unless they stop it right away. Medication shuts down Amygdala temporarily but does not build positives. It does this by increasing Seratonin which controls the amount of information going to hippocampus for redirection.
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As an aside, animals are the same, testosterone is needed for the Amygdala to mature. Neuter a cat and it becomes mellow yet still has enough to be a hunter, just not as aggressive one as a tom. This has no affect on emotions because they are separate as is learned behaviour. Kick a cat enough and it will fear and hate you.
MyNameIsTerry
22-05-15, 10:12
Since the left is developed earlier and can process both positive & negative emotions and then the right develops to become a main fear/negative processing Amygdala as opposed to a shared use one like the left, does it mean that women continue to use the old Amydala but men move to use the larger right version out of survival need in hunting/tribal warfare/alpha needs?
Is that all it really means? Women have less use for the right so it develops less? In which case, what is the point of it at all in women?
At this point I understand the use of the left in positives for men and the new use of the right for fear (so assuming the left is no longer doing the fear part) but I can't understand what the right is doing in the case of women at all.
Fear conditioning uses the right but is that just for men or for both? If both, why has the left not done it for the women?
Ah this is where emotions come in. Emotions dictate which side is used, An aggressive female would be treated like a male and use her right and react without thought. Instinctively. A passive male would use his passive emotions and his left. Females have less testosterone so they mature sooner and have smaller left and right. Does this mean they have less capacity to process fear? Did they not need it? They certainly do now. We have female armed forces and police which tells me attitude dictates more which side gets used. Positive emotions may dictate the left be used, but for what still has to be negative or hippocampus bypasses it. All thought goes through this fork for redirection. The amygdala have separate memories depending on which emotion is attached to them. So angry negative emotions would use the right and record it as fear without consideration of the logic that the left would do. The Amygdala are thought to have other roles than just fear. I didn't look much into it because my main concern is it's role in reaction to a negative trigger. So hippocampus send thoughts from the trigger to which ever side emotions dictate. Anger sends it through the right and the right sides memory records it as being very strong. This influences hypothalamus's reaction (symptoms) Just sad would send it through the left where it could be challenged in a search for logic and modified before going on to Hypothalamus and getting less aggressive symptoms. If you look at my triangle you would see how it cycles around and around till it times out or another thought sets it aside. But the object is still to have hippocampus bypass it or in the beginning use the left. Men are conditioned to use the right although I seldom was. Flight was more my reaction whenever possible. I would stand my ground if it was my only choice, just never my first. So is this why I got a cure, because I'm passive and don't normally use my right.
Do very negative angry days set you up for worse panic attacks? Do over time because of the rights memory and influence on hypothalamus and its reaction slowly make then worse?
Ok, I am trying to understand so be patient with me :) I get lost with lots of words in one clump. So basically if we have a negative experience we have to replace it with lots of positive experiences and positive emotions to change the neurons in the brain. Is that the basis of it?
I guess what is difficult for me is finding positive thoughts AND emotions about my mom dying very quickly from an extremely rare cancer. This made my HA ridiculous. It was a situation where there were so. many. negatives one right after the other and very strong emotions associated with it. I don't really know how to find a positive, or well even if I can, how I can find enough positives with the right emotion associated with it to replace those memories. Does that make sense? How do I apply this to a situation that I cannot revisit or change? I can't really get rid of that in my brain.
But if I am misunderstanding how to do it, then I appreciate the feedback.
Terry - I am a little familiar with Compassion Focused Therapy, but not very well-versed although sounds like something I would like as other models that I have fit well with have compassion as a basis.
swgrl.
Set aside your mother dying and all the negatives for the time being, we will get back to it.
If you start to think positive to the other negatives you can reduce the load going through the Amygdala and the stress and anxiety it causes and give Hypothalamus, the part of the brain that causes reactions and symptoms something other than anxiety to base these reactions on. Once you feel a bit better you can add peoples reaction to your mothers death. Positive being things like they are negative because they are ignorant or inconsiderate. Their opinion is not important. Real important is the positive, "I don't have to please them". When you can do this then you can look at the tragedy of your mothers death, without so many negatives colouring it.
My mother died at 53 of cancer, I was 18. She had a crappy life not totally of her making, but a large part was. I've accepted there is nothing that could have been done to change this. I like to remember her good times.
If you have positive thoughts and experiences in relation to a negative you don't want you give hippocampus a choice. It then can use either, If you think negative it will use the one that causes anxiety, but if you have a positive attitude it will use the positive thought and bypass Amygdala where fear and anxiety are generated. If it offers you the negative option you only have to say, I don't want that one and it will use the other, but it has to have another it can use so you have to give it a positive option. To keep from drifting back into depression and using the negatives in memory you need to think positive to every negative piece of crap in your life. You did this once, you can do it again. The two years you were happy you did this unconsciously, now you have to make a conscious effort. The only reason the neurons were not salvaged was that once in a while you remembered the past enough to make you sad and keep them active. It doesn't matter if they are still functional as long as you don't use then they will just sit there harmless. And eventually be salvaged. This salvaging will take many many years because of the trauma building strong neural pathways.
I also get a bit confused with the 'Tech' stuff, but I have used 'Positivity' to cure my Anxiety. as well as 'Health Anxiety'.
Although I mentioned CBT as part of my cure, I was never actually put on a course.
My Therapist used bits to help me use in my recovery.
But Positivity, I found the most effective.
Let me give you some examples.
As you know I was in a bad Car Crash and thought I had died!
This prevented me from driving a car and at one stage even being in a car with someone else driving and the extent of being near a road where I would see and hear cars passing. I was really bad.
At first, I had to divert my thoughts in to lots of brain exercises like counting to 100 and back, counting the trees as we passed them, humming a tune and fiddling with the text on my phone. I did all of these things at the same time.
Then I eliminated them until I have remained with just the one; which I still use today. I have even driven a little, although only a mile, it is a huge step for me. Looking back I would cry hysterically and Anxiety would be through the roof.
Now the 'Positivity' comes in when I had a Holiday booked and all my |Fears were coming at once.
The Car, The Motorway, 200 Mile Journey and no safe zone for 3 hours.
So, I used 'Positivity'. I wanted the Holiday so much and I wanted my Partner to have a break; we had already cancelled 2 Holidays previous.
So, all the way, I kept saying that there's something at the end of the journey that makes it worth while. My Partner also needs this break, so I am doing this for him. I will be safe when I get there and if I get there feeling ok, then I can get back; that's logical. Then I kept saying to myself that you are more likely to have an accident on local roads than a Motorway; this is a fact. And if I do this, I am one more step beating the Anxiety. I kept the Mind occupied with word games and I was absolutely fine.
Whether I would have made it without this thought process, I will never know, but I would not have been able to even get in the car without that thought process.
As well as 'Positivity', I used 'Thought Diversion'.
This helps a lot with Health Anxiety.
First I got checked by the Doc, through blood tests and so on, because my biggest Fear is Cancer and it has been looming in my brain for many years.
My Mother suffered very badly with Cancer during my childhood and Teenage years and I have grown up thinking I would get it too.
The first thing is acceptance that what the Doctor tells you is a true fact.
You can't go away and think; "But?" You have to accept it.
Then the pains and aches and twitching and all those things that you feel from your body. You eliminate them with practical reasons and NOT, "I've got this and I've got that". You start telling yourself, I've got Heartburn/Indigestion, aching muscles, too much sun, and so on. This stops the Anxiety from getting a hold of you.
I also had the fear of 'Parkinsons', as my Dad died from this last year.
So, what I have done is not let those thoughts in anymore. The more you do, the more you will become relative to them.
Think Healthy, be 'Healthy. As the saying goes; "Healthy Mind, Healthy Body'.
Now in the case of losing a loved one too early, it does leave you to question the 'Positives' in Life.
I have lost 3 of my friends to Cancer. One was 36, no other 38 and the other 51.
This can set in Panic. But then I look at my Mum who is 83, who had Cancer and survived. And then I look at my Life and think how grateful I am that I am still alive.
There are no answers in Life to why someone is taken from us too early, I suppose it was just there time. But, when I spoke to my friend who knew she was going to die, she was POSITIVE. It was me that was negative at that time.
What we have to do is make the most of our Lives. To do things that we aspire to and appreciate the nature and Life that is given to us. To see the good things and not the bad so much. To try and keep positive and realize that Anxiety is not the end, but a diversion in to a New Life. That is how I see it.
I apologise if I may have struck a chord or two here, but I am speaking truthfully and close to my heart and I also apologise if I have made any spelling mistakes, because I have not checked it and my dinner is ready. :)
What a great post Carnation. Sounds very similar to my own journey.
You're right positivity is key, not only for beating anxiety but for life, i find happiness in even the smallest things, i stop to look at the tree's and i gaze at the moon, i'm very humble and content and i appreciate everything in my life.
The first thing is acceptance that what the Doctor tells you is a true fact.
You can't go away and think; "But?" You have to accept it.
Then the pains and aches and twitching and all those things that you feel from your body. You eliminate them with practical reasons and NOT, "I've got this and I've got that". You start telling yourself, I've got Heartburn/Indigestion, aching muscles, too much sun, and so on. This stops the Anxiety from getting a hold of you.
I can completely relate to this. In terms of my Health Anxiety, i still have it, i still have some spells of irrational worry, but what's important is i am improving all of the time and i don't expect something like this to go over night, it takes consistency.
Carnation, Sam.
Notice the use of want to. I started the thread "words " because of the importance of positive words. Want to is probably the most positive of words.
I too used bits of CBT but right from the start I refused to do "off the deep end" exposure. I used relaxation and distractions. I don't need them anymore. Core beliefs were a challenge but also a turning point. So I figured it was an important thread too.
Thank you Sam.
You can get over Health Anxiety. Time can help, but you know it is deeper than that. I don't have to tell you, you know that already. Worry is a feeder and if you are a born worrier like me, it is hard task to stop. Worrying filters through in everything, so if you can try and let a few worries go, that will help you. :)
The difference between worry and concern is if you are concerned you pick one solution and stick to it, even if it may be wrong. With worry you either have too many solutions or none so can't let it go.
Carnation, thank you for your story. I really appreciate reading what you went through and feel like I can relate to some of it. I'm sorry about the losses you have been through. Cancer is a huge fear for me, and yes, I have made some progress with trusting doctors with their first response, but I do fall back into those old habits of thinking the worst at times. I guess it just takes repetition and practice.
I am inspired by how you found the positive in all of that. I need to try that too. It is hard, like you said, it is deeper than it seems. But it's been 4 years since she died and I am better than I was before. Who knows what more time and effort will bring?
It is hard to not worry, but I do have to remind myself that I am making progress. Thank you for your story!!
Davit, I know you look at this Thread quite regularly.
Just wanted to say that I have just found out that Gardening is hard work!
How on earth; excuse the pun, do you cope?
I had sown some lettuce seeds and there are about 200 of them.
My Mum said I have to pinch them and re-pot them. My God, it is so hard to do and tricky.
Once again, I apologise for going off the subject.
Maybe we should have a Thread on Gardening? :shrug:
Thin your lettuce to about four inches apart and bury the stems part way for support. If you have the room leave some crowded to slow them down. Lettuce transplants well but not in hot weather.
How do I do it? I work hard at it but space myself. That is why I'm on here right now, a little rest before going on to the next period. And my house gets neglected bad for the first two or three weeks while I plant after that things slowdown some. There are four sprinklers. for the garden on their own hoses, I only have to turn the valves on. I till with a tractor to start and after use a small electric tiller. I can use it in the green houses also. I have two hoses for watering flower beds. so I don't have to drag one all over the place.
It is a labour of love. I also have a bench on skids that straddles the rows and I sit on it to plant and weed. Except for a few plants everything is in raised rows that I make with a tractor. They vary in length from 20 feet to 60 feet. So weeding is only time consuming and I have birds I can watch. Having a system is important and not using the same muscles for more than an hour at a time is more important. It used to take four hours to plant 300 potatoes, now it takes four days. Same with the five hundred onions. But see I only do a bit and then switch to something else. Same with harvesting.
The flowers make it worth while. I put marigolds in most of the rows . I love bicolour marigolds. I'll stick in a hundred or more.
It is hard work but only for a while, but the days are long. I must say though that it really has to be something you like to do it on a subsistence level and it is harder to do it organic.
Blimey, I'm not surprised that you're losing weight, Davit! That's a mammoth task but it also sounds very therapeutic. Do you ever sleep?:D
MyNameIsTerry
26-05-15, 08:28
Well, he's got to work up an appetite to eat all that stuff!
It must be nice though, just a lot of work.
Pulisa
Right now, four to five hours is all. I will get back to eight when everything is planted.
Got brave and stood on the scales, I've lost ten pounds. Dug out my belt so my pants will stay up.
That's a lot to lose Dave, do you think it's everything you've been doing as well as the heat?
Be careful, Davit. You must be burning off a lot of calories with all your hard physical work? Plus the lack of sleep. Maybe you need to slow things down a bit?
Just not eating. My goal weight has always been 175, I won't go lower than that. Having a tough time today, lots of aches and pains.
Sweat is running in my eyes just sitting. It is hot today. Going to town for gas and supplies, maybe when I get back it will be cooler. Time for pain killers.
Every day gained in the spring is a week saved in the fall. Not quite, but you can see my drive.
You have a tough life. Take care and keep your pain under control as much as possible.
Pulisa
But it is a good life full of wonders, birds and flowers and good things to eat. Right now it is asparagus, shortly it will be strawberries followed by raspberries and other berries, but my favourite is tiny new potatoes. Come winter it will be pie, apple or pumpkin. Gallons and gallons of fresh apple juice. Cantaloupe at the end of summer.
Pain isn't to bad today but I'm tired and my muscles don't want to work.
You're only human, Davit. There's a limit to everything despite all the good work you are doing which will reap rewards later on in the year. Can you ease up a bit?
Went into the house, got more seeds, put them down and went out and picked the asparagus instead. I could live on it alone. Bit of tinnitus today so going to go slow. One sprinkler to fix first. One to move since the forecast says rain but it isn't raining. Looking forward to getting caught up so I can do some baking. Once everything is planted things slow down some. It is looking like it is going to be another very dry summer.
---------- Post added at 07:43 ---------- Previous post was at 07:41 ----------
You know this probably looks like OCD but thank God it isn't, I do have to say enough some days.
Thanks for the Tips Davit.
I haven't been on here that much lately, because there is so much gardening to do!
I am so busy, there just does not seem enough time in the day.
I am hoping by mid-June, I can relax a bit more, but I doubt it.
Hope you try and get a bit of rest. My guess is the rain will only stop you from working!:)
Thunder today but no rain. probably the other side of the mountains. Going to put out Pumpkins Friday or Saturday. Thursday I'll plant summer squash seeds. And stick twenty eight marigolds in the rows. Four to a row. They confuse root maggot fly. They stink. Going to fill the flower boxes with soil and plant nasturtiums and petunias in them. Put the snap dragons out too soon, they died in the heat. Pumping out of the pond for the sprinklers. Once this is done the asparagus and strawberries need weeding. I hope to have everything left planted by june 1st except cabbages cauliflower and broccoli. They need a wet almost cold day to go out. Some where in here I have two green houses to plant too. Tomato, peppers, (hot and bell) cantaloupe, and watermelon and some herbs. Lemon balm and oregano are ready to harvest. Valerian is doing very good.
There's a new book just been released called; 'It's all in your head', True Stories of Imaginary Illness by Suzanne O'Sullivan.
It was featured in a complimentary magazine in a week-end newspaper.
Dr Suzanne O'Sullivan is a Consultant Neurologist and talks about her patients that turn out to have psychosomatic illnesses; which apparently are now cured.
It looks an interesting read. :shrug:
Hi Davit, I hope you are ok and you have not suffered too much in the heat.
Hi everybody
These are things that have helped me.
Art therapy
Acupuncture, I had done this before with somebody else and was not effective, but now I go to a person who is fantastic. She also does psychoneuroimmunology and has changed my diet completely.
And the most important thing in helping me overcome panick attacks has been acceptance. Both Claire Weekes and my best frienr (who has completely overcome a panic disorder) said that unless I stop fighting against my feelings and accept them I would never recover. I always understood this but could not seem to put it into practice, but in my case it is a control thing, as soon as I FULLY believed...if I have a panic attack then so be it...they started to get fewer and far between.
I tell this as a success story because I have had a panic disorder for years and have been housebound for months.
Don't loose faith and be open to make certain lifestyle changes if necessary
Xxx
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 04:40
Bump
Davit or anyone? What are your views on EMDR?
There is a lot of research showing it is successful not only with trauma but anxiety now as well ... It helped me get through a difficult trauma. It felt more distant from me after. It was difficult and exhausting during the process though.
EMDR is supposed to put thoughts back on track. I've not studied it though other than to read it. It was mentioned here a while back. If it can block or modify thoughts going to Amygdala it would stop the back feed to Amygdala's memory and reduce or eliminate the tendency to add negative riders. It would help. You would still need positive thought. More would get through to where it belongs.
Are you going to try it? we might find the person who posted it with a search.
---------- Post added at 17:01 ---------- Previous post was at 16:58 ----------
Swgrl
But worth it I gather. Would you do it again?
I would if I needed to. It was worth it, as it helped me start to distance myself from my trauma. During the process, my therapist actually would have me incorporate a positive and calming memory after reexperiencing the trauma. From what I know, researchers aren't positive WHY the eye movements help access and shift trauma, but extensive research shows it does work. It's interesting for sure. I'd love to do a training but it's very expensive.
My kind of post, useful information plus support. And it gives people an option to try that has some actual fact to it. And thank God it isn't another of mine.
Thank you Swgrl I like learning new things.
MyNameIsTerry
01-07-15, 04:41
Davit or anyone? What are your views on EMDR?
This thread popped up last night about EMDR.
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=171059
They do seem to be broadening it out as there are studies on the NHS evidence base for OCD and depression from a quick glance.
NICE info here:
https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg26/resources/cg26-posttraumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd-understanding-nice-guidance2
---------- Post added at 04:41 ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 ----------
There's a new book just been released called; 'It's all in your head', True Stories of Imaginary Illness by Suzanne O'Sullivan.
It was featured in a complimentary magazine in a week-end newspaper.
Dr Suzanne O'Sullivan is a Consultant Neurologist and talks about her patients that turn out to have psychosomatic illnesses; which apparently are now cured.
It looks an interesting read. :shrug:
I read the newspaper article as someone posted it on here. Luckily they didn't post it on the HA board so they avoided a flaming!
She talks about some of her cases, some of which included accounts if how poorly the patients were treated due to stigma. These were really extreme cases of Somatoform Disorder, of which the UK versions of what NMP callls HA fall into. By extreme, I mean these people could be mimicking real disabilities e.g. one was blindness.
The power of the mind, eh?!
There is some evidence you can block or induce IBS with thought. Studies were small. A person off here, managed to do it by thinking positive about the trigger. It worked for her.
Two people are staying away now till this is settled. They told me so I wouldn't think they are deserting me. If they want to play games with my posts I will delete them all. PM they can't mess with.
Two people are staying away now till this is settled. They told me so I wouldn't think they are deserting me. If they want to play games with my posts I will delete them all. PM they can't mess with.
You really think you are so important.Why don't you start your own site and insult everyone who doesn't agree with you, but initially go to a shrink.
I won't stop until you stop mentioning my name on various threads.
At least I have the bottle to stand up to you.
MyNameIsTerry
01-07-15, 10:14
Well I hope we don't see thread deletion out of this, I've put my own efforts into some of these. If so, maybe I want my posts to move somewhere else as I come back to them to pick up some of the links from time to time.
There are also active conversations going on, like in this one and regardless of what is going on here today, those people may want that information e.g. Carnation.
Well I hope we don't see thread deletion out of this, I've put my own efforts into some of these. If so, maybe I want my posts to move somewhere else as I come back to them to pick up some of the links from time to time.
There are also active conversations going in, like in this one and regardless of what is going on here today, those people may want that information e.g. Carnation.
it's always Davit not me who starts stirring things up on this and many other threads.I have just looked around I think he is obsessed with me, lol.
Sorry Terry, but as long as he keeps putting me down or refering to me in a roundabout way,trying to get me banned, I will respond.He should know as he is a guru that he shouldn't have posted the above as it isn't relevant to this thread..
it's as simple as that.
Rennie1989
01-07-15, 10:46
As a teenager I had a few sessions of counselling where they were able to teach me to control my panic attacks from daily to monthly. That meant that they were cut 30 times less than before! One of my biggest achievements in my road to recovery.
In 2013, after I got married, I had CBT for 6 weeks. She was able to train me to change my way of thinking by allowing me to record and study my anxiety, challenged my way of thinking and encouraged me to get out of my comfort zone. It took a year after the sessions for the therapy to work but the wait was worth it. At the time I was on medication but was able to come off it afterwards.
From my memory Rennie you posted some photo's of you in your gown.
Rennie , you must be very proud of yourself to have achieved so much making use of all the work you did to find yourself in such a positive place today.
Rennie1989
01-07-15, 13:00
Blue Moon - my wedding gown? I don't remember sharing them but I do remember having my profile picture of me on my wedding day.
Pulisa - I am very proud, sometimes people do not understand or appreciate how much work and determination I've put in, and some don't believe how bad I used to be, but if I can inspire people and make them believe that they CAN get better if they put the work in then that's what matters most :) thank you x
It's to your credit that you have done so well. You are an example to us all.
I tried to put pedasi on here but this computer won't allow it unless some one else can find it and post it I will have to use my other computer.
Hi Rennie.I remember now,you looked beautiful :D
Okay, I had to type it out but padesi is on here, look at how many rules were broke. Such a stupid shame.
---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:40 ----------
Everyone just click on her name on any post, she is beautiful, Rennie you put it on your personal file.
I don't know what is going on Davit. I have just been catching up on a lot of your threads and reading some very unpleasant posts.
If Moderators read this, it is very upsetting considering the nature of everyone's illnesses on here.
You seem to be under attack from quite a few members and I do not know the History on how this started, but the whole situation could get really out of hand.
That's why I said on one of your other threads, is this a new game????
I thought bullying was a big issue for a lot of Members on here including myself and now it looks like there is a divide on here with two new leaders?
Is NMP at War and do the rest of us have to choose which Leader to follow?
Can you not like both leaders or will you be judged yourself for following the wrong Leader?
If there is a problem, it should be resolved. Why is there been banter going on for days and days?
It is really upsetting me and changing the way I feel about the Forum.
This was my safe haven. This is where I thought I could share my experiences and progress. This is where I made friends. This is where I get support. This was part of my recovery.
And I don't know who is for who and how I will be judged now, but I had to say something because I think it is wrong. :weep:
nomorepanic
02-07-15, 00:44
NMP is not at war at all.
There are not two sides and two leaders.
We have been trying to resolve it but some people won't let it go!
It is still going on because as I said people will not let it go.
Take everything with a pinch of salt please. It will sort itself out. We have been here before, got the t-shirt and got over it again.
There is no reason for you not to continue to be here if you want to and post as you want to.
This really is a storm in a teacup compared to life's real problems I promise.
venusbluejeans
02-07-15, 00:49
If there is a problem, it should be resolved. Why is there been banter going on for days and days?
The Admins are trying to sort it Carnation, but uinfortunately at the minute just as we are catching up reading the threads another post is hijacked to argue about things on there.... so we are always playing catch up.
We are being asked to sort things from all angles but not sure people realise we have to get the whole story and more arguments just make it all go on for much longer, which we don't want so those people need to stop!
Wow! Thanks for your really quick reply at such a late time in the day.
I realize that this is not an easy task for you and as you pointed out that there are much more 'Real Problems' to deal with in Life. (As if you have not got enough on your plate Nicola). I hope that the Members will bear that in mind when posting.
---------- Post added at 01:06 ---------- Previous post was at 01:02 ----------
Thanks Venusbluejeans.
I really Love this Forum and think a lot of the Members on here and some of them are making great improvements because of this Forum; including myself.
nomorepanic
02-07-15, 01:11
We have just been keeping an eye on things carnation as it was getting out of hand and we are too hot to sleep lol.
My personal problems are not an issue here as such and I don't need special compensations but I just want people to know that there are worse things going on in the world. My neighbour died today after a long battle with cancer so it puts things in perspective when you come on here to see all this bickering.
We are all grown-ups at the end of the day and we can sort things amicably
Carnation, I backed off, it is ended as far as I'm concerned, I still have things to say but they are not about the people involved. They may seem that way though. I study padesi, I understand it and I try hard to practice it but some times it is impossible. Sometimes you are not allowed too.
MyNameIsTerry
02-07-15, 05:47
I don't know what is going on Davit. I have just been catching up on a lot of your threads and reading some very unpleasant posts.
If Moderators read this, it is very upsetting considering the nature of everyone's illnesses on here.
You seem to be under attack from quite a few members and I do not know the History on how this started, but the whole situation could get really out of hand.
That's why I said on one of your other threads, is this a new game????
I thought bullying was a big issue for a lot of Members on here including myself and now it looks like there is a divide on here with two new leaders?
Is NMP at War and do the rest of us have to choose which Leader to follow?
Can you not like both leaders or will you be judged yourself for following the wrong Leader?
If there is a problem, it should be resolved. Why is there been banter going on for days and days?
It is really upsetting me and changing the way I feel about the Forum.
This was my safe haven. This is where I thought I could share my experiences and progress. This is where I made friends. This is where I get support. This was part of my recovery.
And I don't know who is for who and how I will be judged now, but I had to say something because I think it is wrong. :weep:
Carnation,
There is no war or leaders, but groups, a small number of divided people. There is no need to join anyone's group and I have people I like & respect in both camps on this one. Not all people expressing their opinions are on any side, just stating how they feel. I know what Nic is saying, and I shouldn't have to disagree but I'm afraid I have to and thats my right. And I'm not fueling anything by stating that based on my experiences through this.
It will get sorted out, people will leave it alone or people will leave. Some already are. But you still have the same support network on here that you had 24 hours ago and there is no reason for that to change.
My advice to you would be that if you want to avoid confrontation, merely be yourself and steer away from the disputes. People should respect that and not treat you differently for it. If an issue should arise, which I strongly doubt, report it to admin.
Try not to let this cause you further anxiety. Like I said, nothing has changed in how people will talk to you as you are not involved in all this, you don't need to feel you should be either, everyone is an adult on here.
I never meant anyone to get hurt, even those opposed to me. When I was 15 my village tried to railroad me into jail as an example to their children. They were wrong and didn't care. I was nobody. I didn't fight then, I should have. I got two years probation dropped out of school and learned not to trust anyone. I thought that was over but here I am again, that 15 year old kid again. I'm not hiding this time. Please don't push me, I will fight.
MyNameIsTerry
02-07-15, 07:57
From what I know, researchers aren't positive WHY the eye movements help access and shift trauma, but extensive research shows it does work. It's interesting for sure. I'd love to do a training but it's very expensive.
Is it this?
http://www.emdrassociation.org.uk/home/about_EMDR_therapy.htm
The alternating left-right stimulation of the brain with eye movements, sounds or taps during EMDR, seems to stimulate the frozen or blocked information processing system.
In the process the distressing memories seem to lose their intensity, so that the memories are less distressing and seem more like 'ordinary' memories. The effect is believed to be similar to that which occurs naturally during REM sleep (Rapid Eye Movement) when your eyes rapidly move from side to side.
Is it just that they haven't wired someone up to a scanner yet to show the brain waves to prove it?
---------- Post added at 07:57 ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 ----------
There is an interesting article here about the eye movements in EMDR:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-eye-movements-treat-trauma/
For instance:
In a January 2011 study in the Journal of Anxiety Disorders, for example, some patients with PTSD went through a session of EMDR while others completed all the components of a typical EMDR session but kept their eyes closed rather than moving them. The patients whose session included eye movements reported a more significant reduction in distress than did patients in the control group. Their level of physiological arousal, another common symptom of PTSD, also decreased during the eye movements, as measured by the amount of sweat on their skin.
One of the ways EMDR's eye movements are thought to reduce PTSD symptoms is by stripping troubling memories of their vividness and the distress they cause. A study in the May 2012 Behaviour Research and Therapy examined the effectiveness of using beep tones instead of eye movements during EMDR. The researchers found that eye movements outperformed tones in reducing the vividness and emotional intensity of memories.
Those studies relied on self-reports of symptom severity, however, so researchers at Utrecht University in the Netherlands sought more objective confirmation of a change in vividness by also measuring participants' reaction times to fragments of a previously viewed picture. The work, published online in July 2012 in Cognition and Emotion, compared two groups of participants who had committed one detailed picture to memory. When asked to recall the picture and focus on it mentally, one group was instructed to perform eye movements. That group had slower reaction times to the familiar picture fragments in a subsequent memory test, and subjects reported that the vividness of the recalled pictures had decreased.
Another interesting statement I noticed was this one:
a common theory is that EMDR takes advantage of memory reconsolidation: every time we recall a memory, it is changed subtly when we file it away again. For instance, parts of the memory may be left out, or new ideas and feelings are stored alongside of it. Making eye movements during recall, Lee explains, may compete with the recollection for space in our working memory, which causes the trauma memory to be less intense when recalled again.
So, perhaps something you want to consider, Carnation, is how the feelings being processed seem to be less than those not doing that?
You remember memory is in pieces put together by codes. Here they are talking about very traumatic PTSD, not run of the mill. During Rem sleep the days memories get sorted into their appropriate storage areas. What if eye movement generates the keys to do this. Then eye movement would open. What if instructions say put it together but leave out this and this for survivals sake. Amygdala can send messages through ??? have to look it up again, or straight to panic. What if there is a control in that area that says play it without the more traumatic parts that we will keep locked up. Or simply if repetition gets it updated different each time, we know memory updates continually. Some times negative, sometimes positive depending on mood. If REM put it into long term memory then EMDR could mimic the key to open it. But The instruction to play only part would have to come from Amygdala's memory because only Amygdala does fear. Worth more study.
MyNameIsTerry
02-07-15, 08:46
Yeah, it sounds like they have the theories and various studies of what works best but haven't stuck the electrodes on to see what is happening and in which areas. I would imagine that is a step that will happen as its got a lot of money & support behind it.
It reminds me a bit of the hypnotist, Paul McKenna, in his audios where you are told to continueally count backwards from 100 while different sounds are coming in through each ear. I can't say I've ever looked into that one but he says its about distracting the conscious mind to allow the audio to reach deeper. Who knows.
That's really interesting, thanks for the post Terry. I love learning about things like this.
F.Y.I.
I have been a Guinea pig for Paul McKenna in one of his Shows, but he was NOT successful in hypnotising me?!?! :shrug:
MyNameIsTerry
04-07-15, 05:40
F.Y.I.
I have been a Guinea pig for Paul McKenna in one of his Shows, but he was NOT successful in hypnotising me?!?! :shrug:
:yesyes:you can claim to have beaten him then!
Its not supposed to work on everyone. If you are quite anxious, its going to be tough too as you need to relax and all know that can be impossible at times.
F.Y.I.
I have been a Guinea pig for Paul McKenna in one of his Shows, but he was NOT successful in hypnotising me?!?! :shrug:
He is yet another con man and I have first hand knowledge of that.
Several years ago when he wasn't so famous or rich he did actually see the general public in his offices in Hammersmith London.
I spoke to him at length about all my GAD issues and he arranged to send one of his top men to see me for a day, over in Spain I might add at a considerable cost.
When questioned about it being one session he convinced me I would be cured and if not completely cured I would have the tools to quickly recover.
It was my decision to go ahead as I was desperate and of course the 4 hours the guy spent with me turned out to be a complete waste of time despite me giving him several follow up calls when he kept assuring me I would get better.
McKenna,|Speakmans and whoever these so called miracle workers are just show business con people.
Why did you have to rain on her parade, I thought it was nice she beat him, So what if he is a fraud, (your word) It was a positive post and positive thoughts. And I'm supposed to be adding to anxiety? Bull.
There you go again sticking your oar in once again and twisting my words.
Why shouldn't I tell of my experience( which cost a fortune) to others . You just like causing trouble all the time unless someone bows down to you.
This most probably will be deleted if the admin are around.
Oh by the way you are the provoker every time and I think you quite enjoy it.I will never ever forgive you as to the way you spoke to me and also wrote inaccurate facts about me, which again were not deleted by admin.
I might as well get everything off my chest once and foreall.
You davit always seem to doubt anything I say.
Would you like the name of my cardiologist or the numerous therapists I have seen or Paul Mckenna's secretary e mail address.
Yes I have GAD , can't go anywhere on my own which of course would be something you wouldn't believe either, yet you are anxiety free and have a bit of arthiritis.
TonyBDavies
04-07-15, 10:44
There are definite discernible stages to my healing. The first was my confiding in a priest who suggested I seek therapy/counselling which I did. I stayed with the first therapist for a little over a year until I pushed for compensation and was assigned a therapist who specialised in sexual abuse therapy. We used the ACT model as the basis for the work we did, exploring all the paths of thought that we could discover together. I reached an impasse though, and realised that therapy could only take me so far, at which point I asked her advice as to whether I ought to see a doctor about medication. I was still experiencing monthly cycles of panic/depression/total withdrawal. The doctor put me on a first dosage of 20mg Citalopram, which I found relieved my depression from monthly to about six weekly. Reaching this plateau I asked for a further increase to 40mg and this took my 6 week cycle out to two monthly cycles. Not able to tolerate the down phases, they were experientially no better than the worst of my down phases. An increase to 60mg I thought had eliminated all cycle periods until I had a further setback. I really wanted to stop these horrible down phases and reported to my doctor who put me on 150 mg Zyban daily and reduced Citalopram to 40 mg daily. And so far after 1 month I have survived a down phase from which I was able to recover quicker and more completely than ever before, so I do believe I am now on an effective medication regime.
All in all therapy followed up by a working medication regime has really given me hope than maybe just maybe I can restore much of what I've lost as far as personal self belief goes.
Ricardo,
While on the continual search for a 'cure'.
And as I have only tenatively 'tried' just about everything else!!
...I have often said , if I win the lottery I would pay 'Paul McKenna (or some other famous hypnotist) to travel TO ME (as I am aggrophobic).
Well, I suppose I can cross him off my list now too!!
Thanks for the infoM
Having tried absolutely everything Paul's post above made me think of one of the last people I went to see and that was a Medium.
I went a couple of times with scented candles soft music and a form of hypnosis but as with everything else regardless what I was meant to do, be it listen and relax or concentrate on words, my mind would wander after a few seconds every single time . The outcome was that in her opinion she told my wife that my subconscious wouldn't allow me to try and get better.
I have to add that she was no quack back street outfit, but a reputable person who had treated many famous people.She wasn't cheap but then again didn't try and fleece me by saying after only two sessions that she couldn't help me.
Depression is chemical and needs chemical to restore it but the root is mental so if the root can be found the need for the chemical (serotonin) gets reduced and a person can reduce or eliminate their medication. Medication is only a problem for those it makes sick or worse. I'm not against medication, I'd just like to see people do something cognitive with it. It is still their choice. The information is here.
Ricardo,
While on the continual search for a 'cure'.
And as I have only tenatively 'tried' just about everything else!!
...I have often said , if I win the lottery I would pay 'Paul McKenna (or some other famous hypnotist) to travel TO ME (as I am aggrophobic).
Well, I suppose I can cross him off my list now too!!
Thanks for the infoM
I am financially quite stable so just to tell you that brief visit cost £1200.00 which is still a fortune but at the time his going rate which today would be considerably higher.
There's also a psychologist who specialises in compulsive hoarding who travels to clients and offers a cure in 6 weeks. I watched a whole series on Channel 4 about it. The psychologist I was seeing at the time totally rubbished the series and said that these "clients" were specially selected and that the whole thing was a sham.
And as for Dr Christian Jessen (Supersize Superskinny?) the man totally exploits eating disorders for freak show TV.
Paul McKenna also is an "interesting" man:winks: and in it for financial gain. It is appalling how vulnerable people are fleeced. I'd advise you to be very careful before parting with any money, Dally. Ricardo's experience is sadly a very common one.
All this shows as I have said so many times that we are very vunerable people and often get desperate for help and people (many of who aren't even specifically trained) take advantage of our plight and their main interest is how much money they can get out of you. That may sound blunt but unfortunately its the reality.
The trouble when the service is free such as the NHS, they are under funded and if one is lucky to get any form of therapy there is usually a long waiting time and the sessions are very limited.
Its a no win situation for so many, so the GP's just prescribe drugs when you get your ten minutes to explain your symptoms (which is impossible to do fully in that time) and off you go with the GP dsaying give them a week or so and you will feel better.
Before I went to live in Spain I was privately seen by a top psychiatrist at The priory at Roehampton. Our sessions were 30 minutes after the initial hour and spread out every two weeks. in the end (6 years later) all we were doing was having a chat and there was no improvement in my condition. Whilst in Spain I happen to read about very man who had been practising at The priory for years had been struck off for taking money off a patient who had more than befriended him.It was in every National paper. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7706665/Millionaire-actress-left-Priory-psychiatrist-1.2m-in-will-after-secretive-treatment.html
How do you think I felt , as Peter had become a crutch and friend for me.
Shocking and I'm sorry for the distress this must have caused you, Ricardo. It's like a betrayal as you have trusted this person and then he has behaved in this fashion...
I was an inpatient at the Priory Hospital in Woking and the psychotherapist I was seeing was done for inappropriate behaviour with a female client. This was 20 years ago, I have to say. One would hope that more thorough monitoring is now in place. I wasn't surprised at the news. For you it was far worse, Ricardo.
brief visit cost £1200.00
be very careful before parting with any money, Dally.
It was a tongue in cheek remark.! I am aware of charletons.
But IF I did win over a MILLION on the lottery £1200 wouldn't be too bad to 'waste'. Lol
XX
There's also a psychologist who specialises in compulsive hoarding who travels to clients and offers a cure in 6 weeks. I watched a whole series on Channel 4 about it. The psychologist I was seeing at the time totally rubbished the series and said that these "clients" were specially selected and that the whole thing was a sham.
And as for Dr Christian Jessen (Supersize Superskinny?) the man totally exploits eating disorders for freak show TV.
Paul McKenna also is an "interesting" man:winks: and in it for financial gain. It is appalling how vulnerable people are fleeced. I'd advise you to be very careful before parting with any money, Dally. Ricardo's experience is sadly a very common one.
Is that the guy with a Greek name,pulisa.
Yes I think so. He was very suave and well-dressed. Always managed to cure the client in 6 sessions...
---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------
Paul, that sounds as if you had a very thought-provoking session and I certainly think it helps to believe in something whether it's religion, science or mash therapy!:D
At the start of all this we all are desperate for some relief from our issues. I tried music therapy for my then 3 year old autistic daughter at great expense and under pressure from others and surprised the therapist once as she was strumming her guitar whilst my daughter was cowering behind the sofa. She had told me of the improved interaction they shared and foolishly I wanted to believe it.
We are all vulnerable and have to take a leap of faith in order to trust anyone.
Yes I think so. He was very suave and well-dressed. Always managed to cure the client in 6 sessions...
---------- Post added at 19:58 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------
Paul, that sounds as if you had a very thought-provoking session and I certainly think it helps to believe in something whether it's religion, science or mash therapy!:D
At the start of all this we all are desperate for some relief from our issues. I tried music therapy for my then 3 year old autistic daughter at great expense and under pressure from others and surprised the therapist once as she was strumming her guitar whilst my daughter was cowering behind the sofa. She had told me of the improved interaction they shared and foolishly I wanted to believe it.
We are all vulnerable and have to take a leap of faith in order to trust anyone.
http://www.stelioskiosses.com/ thats the guy Pulisa
I think it's fair to say that over the years and with accumulated experience you can normally sniff out the bad eggs but sometimes, like with Ricardo's experience, it can be an enormous shock to discover that someone in whom you have had complete faith has acted inappropriately and has taken advantage of his position of trust.
It would be good if all therapists could be monitored by a Care Quality Commission type of body or maybe they already are?
http://www.stelioskiosses.com/ thats the guy Pulisa
He looks expensive, doesn't he? Would need to maintain his sartorial splendour. Credentials are impressive though. Good therapy couch manner?
Ricardo, I was the same.
I could not go any where on my own or be left on my own. At my worst, I could not even be in a room on my own.
I tried to get help from the NHS, but they wanted me to wait a year!
I got my own private Therapist which cost me over a thousand pounds, which I could not afford, but when you are desperate, you are prone to pay anything to get better.
I am much better now and currently 80% improved.
I did this mostly on my own, but with the help of some mindfulness techniques and CBT. I do not take Medication as I have a phobia and I believe it just helps you get through the day but not actually heal you. My Partner who also suffers with Anxiety, does take Meds, but he still has a lot of the symptoms and is not cured by far.
We are all different and heal at different times.
It's got nothing to do with how strong you are or how much you have tried.
what I am saying Ricardo, is don't give up hope.
I don't know your circumstances or what happened to make you the way you feel, but we do suffer with the same illness. You can still live and you can still achieve things. Life is precious; I have only just lost a friend to Cancer who is only 50 and two other friends aged 36 and 38. You and I and all the people on the Forum are Alive. We just have to get through this and come out the other side.
I was NOT offended or upset me about your remark with Paul McKenna.
Davit has been very kind to me and helped me tremendously. He knows I am very sensitive, so he was probably protecting me.
Unfortunately everything we say can be taken in two ways and if there has already been friction, you will both be dissecting every phrase and sentence. This last week has had me in tears because of what has been going on. We all have to remember that we suffer from Anxiety including yourself.
Thanks Carnation
I really appreciate your response. I am a good person but apparently according to Nic last night 3 more people are complaining about me, so I would like to know exactly what I did wrong yesterday so I can correct my ways.
I am honestly not aware of doing anything wrong yesterday.I was on all sorts of threads, look for yourself.
Anyway time to move on.
MyNameIsTerry
05-07-15, 06:34
The sad thing is, there has been a Bill of Parliament raised for the last 2 sessions and each time the idiot MP, Geraint Davies, has just allowed them to not progress and has not asked for them to be carried over to the next session so they have been scrapped. Its seems to me he is just raising them to show he is doing something for his money!
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=143666
The Health & Care Professions Council (HCPC) were his proposed regulator to cover all counsellors & therapists. These guys are a full regulatory body like any other and can strike you off or fine you.
Currently anyone using the following titles have to be registered with them by law which also means you can't use these titles without their permission or you face prosecution:
• Art psychotherapist
• Art therapist
• Dramatherapist
• Music therapist
• Practitioner psychologist
• Registered psychologist
• Clinical psychologist
• Counselling psychologist
• Health psychologist
• Occupational psychologist
They are just the ones relevant to mental health, there are others.
Sadly, the BoP is very very woolly. The second one jumped on the media coverage over gay conversion therapy so the guy has failed in that area too and maybe at some point the media will have a programme that exposes his incompetence in protecting the public?
I'm not sure he even has his seat anymore. Its Wales though, so its likely.
So, if you come across someone using the above titles, you can check them here:
http://www.hpc-uk.org/aboutregistration/theregister/
If they aren't on there, report them to the HCPC.
Another problem I have with the BoP is that it doesn't consider the many areas these charlatans can be seen in. It look purely at those giving sessions. The trouble is, we have all these online coursees thesedays and I can think of one we can't talk about on here that the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) have ruled against and cannot get them to change their advertising. The ASA have no power, they rely on your agreeing to be a good boy and if you don't, they just put your name on a naughty list. Unless they pass it to Trading Standards, nothing happens with these people. The one is question, has not changed anything, refuses to and still complains the ASA are wrong. Make an example of these people and it sends a message!
So, when the HCPC did come in, people like The Speakmans would likely not hold the required qualifications to continue practicing. The BACP model is one that is seen to be an industry standard and an internet or local college diploma with no clinical supervision (ongoing) or minimum training hours is just not going to cut it. So, what happens to them? Will them be "grandfathered" in until a client complains and they get booted off the register? Or will they be booted off straight away at industry "go live" of the Act or will they be giving a period of time to upgrade their credentials?
The one we can't talk about claims CBT cannot work yet the BACP model & the BABCP, both of which the NHS endorse, state you have to be pro-CBT to be with them. There are ways around this which I know of e.g. train, pass, use whatever you wan't that the association doesn't approve of and get a "tame" psychologist to sign off some supervision hours where you do use a bit of CBT, etc. Then someone has to catch you out. So, going back to some of the "guru" sector, some of them actually employ fully trained psychologists who have turned away from evidence based therapies in the pursuit of money. These guru's can simply sit back and stop giving personal client sessions (because they would not be qualified under new legislation) and let their paid therapist keep selling the dream.
I have little faith in that BoP in its form as it needs cover all this. What about hypnotherapy? It is not mentioned and would not be a title covered but they treat many of the same issues that the counsellors & therapists who will be covered would. So, its a messy BoP and I question whether he ever intended to bother and its just to raise his profile as a pointless backbencher.
---------- Post added at 06:34 ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 ----------
Dr Paul Salkovskis wrote on a blog about how the TV company behind Obsessive Compulsive Cleaners asked him to be in the programme. I think they asked him for the first 2 seasons and he refused because of how they portay OCD sufferers and even OCDUK tried complained to CH4 about them.
https://psychonoclast.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/oc-cleaners-and-betty-tv-my-response-to-their-request-for-expert-input/
So, the "experts" that will be seen in that one are either of the "tame" variety, money & fame chasers, or the quacks. Salkovskis is a patron of OCD UK and he's a very well known top of the game expert in OCD & HA. He was the clinical director at the Maudsley for 10 years and is now with Bath university and overseeing a new specialist treatment centre for OCD & anxiety in Bristol. So, I think I would go with his expertise over the fame chasers!
Jesson and Pixie and the other one make me laugh anyway. You've got a programme about people being embarrassed and to apparently avoid embarrassment you show your bits to the whole country :roflmao:Its a bit like saying someone with severe shyness applies to go on Big Brother! :doh:People who go on that aren't embarrassed at all, its the condition that is the embarrassment but not to them, to people who don't want to do anything just to get 5 minutes of fame.
Its a joke anyway. I saw a brief bit of it not long ago (I don't normally watch it) and Jessen looked at a guys swollen penis and then said he would refer him to a urologist. The guy said he has been suffering with it for ages and been back & forth with his GP. His GP is either massively imcompetent or just plain stupid - we all know how they want us out of the surgery as quick as possible and referring your care to a specialist is an ideal way!
The whole Supersize vs. Superskinny is a daft one. You eat mine, I'll eat yours.
There is one I have seen advertised that takes an obsessive cleaner into the house of a hoarder to clean it up for them. I'm not sure if they truly have OCD but if so its like getting a guy with a house full of beer he wants rid of them sending in an alcoholic! :doh:
I want it known I have never complained to nic, any complaint I had went right to you. I'd just like this to go away. Moving on is your decision, but not one I would push for.
---------- Post added at 23:10 ---------- Previous post was at 23:09 ----------
Hopefully this is my last word on this. I have a movie to watch if possible.
I never mentioned you and if you read my post I want to know what I have done wrong yesterday so that we can all move on. I don't think that is an unreasonable request by myself.
Why you have to be so rude to me without provocation is beyond belief. " I have a movie to watch if possible" what is that all about, a rider that is distasteful, perhaps.
There is a new show called the Autistic Gardener starting this week on Channel 4. I hope it sticks to the plan of it being about a group of autistic horticulturists and how gardening improves the quality of their life rather than hauling in the experts and dissecting their behaviours. I hate the freak show aspect of some of these shows.
I've met Jessen. Wouldn't like to again.
MyNameIsTerry
05-07-15, 07:51
Yes, that looks interesting. Since the programme seems to be using him as the presenter, I would hope it doesn't bring in experts unless they just talk about the benefits of gardening without the psychologeuse as you put it. When you get these ones with an expert presenter, you normally know its going to be freak show.
There was one on ages ago about phobias that wasn't bad. It was mostly exposure. Can't remember much about it now.
When I was reading the negative reviews about OC Cleaners, I did notice that ITV's Bedlam did actually get favourable reviews about its portrayal. I only caught the end of it though. I was a bit skeptical given the name.
I don't think you've got the equipment to be his type, pulisa :winks:
Fortunately I haven't:winks: Not my tasse de te in other respects as well.
Bedlam addressed cases such as my daughter presents with. I didn't dare watch it as it was too close to home. I prefer escapist TV if I'm able to watch anything at all.
I have so many posts in PM that I have no time for movies any more is all I meant. I meant I hoped I would not have to keep answering for my actions is all. I do not know what you might of said yesterday, sorry I never looked. Nine hours today. This is getting to be a very common thing. I'm not complaining, I invited people there. It takes time to look up things for people. My garden looks like crap and my house the same and I had to increase my Data flow a lot to cover the internet time. I put in more time than my therapist. I can't complain even if it sounds like I am. I chose this the minute I said CBT.
And then there is Email. Do I want you to go, No, there is not enough support as it is now.
I really want to watch a movie and wind down, and my tea has gone cold.
---------- Post added at 00:17 ---------- Previous post was at 00:14 ----------
I guess I just talk too abrupt, I'm tired. Too tired even for strawberries and whipped cream. Need to heat my tea. Good night all.
Yes I'm sure you work hard all day but internet forums are demanding facilities when people are constantly seeking help from someone who has found a cure for anxiety. There always the option to log off though.
No there isn't. Which is why I'm watching a dumb movie and checking here too. UK is awake, Canada, Us is asleep.
I don't think you should sacrifice sleep in order to monitor and attend to pleas for help from UK-based NMP posters? I'm sure they would be happy to wait. Everyone needs to sleep.
Davit. Pulisa is right. Please try and get some rest and relaxation.
You have so much to do and it can be quite exhausting on this Forum at times. :hugs:
It is interesting that when I was at my worst I would get very anxious waiting. I see people go through the same things I did, I pace the floor with them. Most is in PM. I can sleep during the day if I have to. Too hot to garden. You know todays little lark gave me ten extra PMs to answer. (26) So I drank tea and answered them, Like I said, too hot to garden. Six hours sleep is lots because it is solid. I used to need ten. I have a UK Skype friend (the one I sent candle sticks to) so I'm still up. I must admit if it was a paying job other than anxiety I'd quit. As soon as it cools down and the mosquitoes go I'll have to seriously garden or till it under. I bought some spray real whipped cream but something in it makes me real sore. Bought some plain instead today, I'll whip it. Thought it was the strawberries but banana and whipped cream does it too. In fact banana, strawberry. orange juice smoothy is okay too.
Ahhh....smoothies....the world would be such a better place if we discussed smoothies!! I miss my friend tonight. Praying he is ok. I'd take him a smoothie if it were possible. Hospitals are such lonely, frustrating places. Get better my dear friend!!
MyNameIsTerry
21-07-15, 08:27
A grape smoothie then :yesyes:
Terry...I have not made grape yet! I shall make one in your honor! Are you into healthy smoothies or something more like a crushed ice smoothy?
MyNameIsTerry
22-07-15, 06:06
Thank you.
I tend to go for fruit smoothies. Funds are tight so I can't do much experimenting though and end up with similiar things a lot. I was putting things like kale in to.
Terry...I will get some grapes at the store and find a suitable recipe! Do you ever use baby spinach or nuts?
I know this is nothing to do with Smoothies, but I have a announcement to make.
I HAVE TOMATOES! :yahoo:
300 and still counting. Sorry, but it is my first time growing. :D
Out of interest, can you make tomato smoothies?
Yes!! Smoothies can be made with tomatoes!!!! Impressive gardening! When I find a good recipe with tomatoes I will let you know, Carnation! It's a hobby I have. :)
In1peace, I made a French Tomato Flan once, it was delicious. :)
Unfortunately I lost the recipe. :weep:
What can I do with a big bunch of celery? (Without being rude). :D
Carnation.....I will look into both! I found several and Ill try them out and tell you what's tasty. I won't have smoothies if they don't taste good...LOL! In the meantime check out this website https://juicerecipes.com/juicing/ You can put in what ingredients you already have and it pops up with several recipes! Cool, huh?
MyNameIsTerry
24-07-15, 04:43
You are going to be living off salads, Carnation! Can you sell any? Or give to charity maybe if they are doing stalls and you don't want them all?
I'm not a fan of fresh tomatoes, I always preferred tinned. I tried them in a smoothie once but it wasn't for me.
Yes, in1peace I have tried spinach but it was a bit peppery for me so I stuck to kale.
Yum I love baby spinach,rocket and persian feta with roma tomato on turkish bread,washed down with carrot,celery and apple juice.Or nice big mug of skinny extra shot Latte.
Have to settle with Pumpkin soup:)
MyNameIsTerry
24-07-15, 07:26
Yum I love baby spinach,rocket and persian feta with roma tomato on turkish bread,washed down with carrot,celery and apple juice.Or nice big mug of skinny extra shot Latte.
Have to settle with Pumpkin soup:)
Pumpkin is supposed to be good for you isn't it, Petra?
I was probably not getting the flavours right as I've heard spinach should be mild but in mine is was overpowering. When I made my first I put strawberries, kale and plum together and stupid me...I didn't cut the shoots off the strawberries and god it was very strong tasting! Totally different and lovely smoothie once I sorted that out.
in1piece - I did put some pumpkin seeds in some times. I've got some cashews to try. I can't get to the cheap place I get things like that from at the moment so I've not wanted to overspend on expensive supermarket ones.
I think it is Terry,I like to flavour the soup with Tahini.I know Kale is good for you.
I munch on graze mix,it has mixed dried fruit,nuts and seeds.I also add this to salads:D
MyNameIsTerry
24-07-15, 07:44
Pine nuts are nice in a salad. I don't know what they would be like in a smoothie but they are pretty sweet so I guess they could be good. I like nuts. I eat Quark cheese on crackers as a snack and add a little bit of peanut butter. I think I might make my own peanut butter as its very easy with a good blender like the Nutribullet I have. I was thinking of making the Quark to as its a pretty easy probiotic cheese.
We have a company over here called Graze who send out selection boxes with nuts, seeds, etc in. You would like them. They do the first box free and I new a guy that did that and then went and bought his own and reused the box as it worked out cheaper :D
Ha ha Terry.
No, I am going to give some away and hopefully make stuff with the rest. I too love tin tomatoes. I don't really like celery or lettuce, but my Mum does.
I am going to have a go at carrots and onions next.
The celery takes so much water, I think it has a drink problem. :lac:
MyNameIsTerry
25-07-15, 05:24
Can you make anything with it? For instance, a chutney? Thinhs like that which will keep a lot longer?
Red onion is great on a salad.
Tasted my home grown tomatoes for the first time.
And, I am still alive! :scared15:
Actually they were lush. (Sorry, stole your word in1peace).
But they were. :)
Tasted my home grown tomatoes for the first time.
And, I am still alive! :scared15:
Actually they were lush. (Sorry, stole your word in1peace).
But they were. :)
Which word? Are you calling me a lush Carnation? :shrug:
Terry, baby spinach is much nicer than regular spinach. I only use about a 1/2 cup to a cup of whatever else I'm mixing. I use nuts in some of my smoothies or seeds. I like to get heavy on the protein, so that I am nice and full, like a meal.
Oops! :doh: I got you mixed up with someone else.
It was SarahH. SarahH on Terry's 'Smell' Thread.
Ooh, that sounds strange too. I am digging a deeper and deeper hole here. :ohmy:
Anyway, I don't know whether you are lush in1peace, I can't see you. :D
Maybe I should go now and just not say anything else about this. :blush:
:roflmao: I am not a lush, but I'm in Savannah right now, so I might seem like a lush shortly! �� And, God help me, the town I live in is like Mayberry with alcohol more common than soda pop and water!! �� The weekend starts on Wednesday where I live now. I'm not a big drinker...anxiety and depression follow me the day after. And topping it all off is Narcolepsy which causes me to sleep all day the evening following a few drinks. I'm so fun!! ��
MyNameIsTerry
28-07-15, 04:14
I feel the need to point out the thread is about the power of smell, not I smell :blush::D
As long as your tomatoes are ripe they should taste nice. I grew some in one of those hanging bags last year and gave them to my mum. She said they were nicer than the ones she buys with them being homegrown. They were a small variety though.
I'm outta here. Throwing tomatoes is not my style. Eating them, however, is. Terry please bump Davit's original post in this thread after you have read this, thanks!
Sorry Terry, no pun intended. :blush:
And they smell nice too. :D
MyNameIsTerry
29-07-15, 05:25
This thread although posted by me is actually by a group of us. Someones name has to be on it. It is about important things that need to be addressed. The first that we have all agreed on is the lack of success stories. So we want your input.
What therapy have you used, did it work, if not why do you think not?
How long were you on it? Feel free to say exactly what it involved and if it was missing something what it was.
This is not about medication, there is already plenty of coverage on that.
We want to know why there is not more success in something that is curable.
If you think it is not we also want to know why.
Lets see if we can have this site live up to it's name.
Bump as requested.
---------- Post added at 05:18 ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 ----------
I'm outta here. Throwing tomatoes is not my style. Eating them, however, is. Terry please bump Davit's original post in this thread after you have read this, thanks!
Have done.
Take care and I hope you find a way out of your anxiety. :hugs:
---------- Post added at 05:25 ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 ----------
Sorry Terry, no pun intended. :blush:
And they smell nice too. :D
Thats ok, I know you would never mean anything. :flowers:
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