View Full Version : *** IF ***
There has been so much talk about suicide even if it is a subject not allowed. If is the positive to counter suicidal thoughts. (it can be used elsewhere)
If you add if to your suicidal thoughts they get neutralized. If I do this, who gets hurt, If I do this what will people think of me. If I fail I could be a veggy.
I agree, Davit, it isn't allowed and it does show up a lot. Sometimes in that moment the person can see no other way out, but maybe by countering can see that it is not the answer. I have never been suicidal though, so don't know what it's like in the moment.
swgrl
I talked to people who tried and failed and they said at the moment it seemed like the thing to do. It does feel like that.
MyNameIsTerry
10-06-15, 07:48
I've read about some cases where people have attempted suicide and they have said they felt like it was literally the right thing to do, as right as it would be to look both ways before crosses the street. Thats worrying because how can they challenge that? That almost like a delusional state, isn't it?
If it comes from depression or out of frustration/anxiety then you can see more possibilities towards being able to challenge.
How can "If" be used in anxiety & panic?
I know somebody who attempted this past weekend, he was drinking at the time. Sometimes substances can influence, but other times people are 100% sober. I don't know.
Terry
There it would be more than likely a "what if", a challenge of the facts to see if they are right.
Davit,
To clarify, the subject of suicide is not prohibited - the forum rules state that members are not permitted to post about:
Threatening suicide, hinting you may attempt committing suicide, and describing attempts/methods. Members are free to post their worries about the subject.
I have personal views on the subject which I shan't air here but suffice it to say that the topic is seldom as black and white as many people portray.
Regardless, the most important point is that you seek urgent professional advice if you are feeling suicidal. It's critical that you can talk through how you feel with someone who can listen and advise. In our highly anxious states, it's often impossible to have the clarity of thought to think rationally and see solutions which would be obvious to others. There are rarely no solutions to problems but it often takes someone else to help us find them.
I hope that helps
Pip
Been there. Went to the psych ward for six weeks because of suicidal thoughts. Definitely thought it was the thing to do at the time. Volunteered but was committed upon examination. Never knew how bad I was or how close I was. In my case it wasn't depression but pain.
Been there. Went to the psych ward for six weeks because of suicidal thoughts. Definitely thought it was the thing to do at the time. Volunteered but was committed upon examination. Never knew how bad I was or how close I was. In my case it wasn't depression but pain.
Physical pain? What happened? And what did you do about it?
Fell off a tractor about five feet onto my hip and shattered my femur. Putting it back together I got some nerve damage and infection. Pain was horrendous unless I stayed in one position. Had to be slung in and out of bed. Like most pinched nerves heat helped temporary. Death looked like the only way out. It looked like I would never walk again even though the leg was pinned and healed. I did not know my spine was damaged also. There is still pain but it is tolerable. 6 years ago now I think. You can find a reason to live if you really want one so maybe I was a bit depressed. I certainly did not want to live.
Hobbling out to transplant 30 cabbages and the same in cauliflower and broccoli. Because I can. Because I love sauerkraut.
worrywart29
11-06-15, 03:19
I think members expressing their intent to commit suicide may be helpful,who knows maybe someone here could offer words that could possibly talk them off the ledge.
Personally, if you are thinking about it,I doubt whether I would log in to find other people's help my mind would on be thinking of nmp.That is just my view on the topic.
MyNameIsTerry
11-06-15, 05:30
It comes in different forms so for people have intrusive thoughts, NMP is the place to help them and for people feeling that way because they are frustrated or depressed then I think the same but its those that are set on it that are more of an issue and they need professionally help & quickly. Another catagory that springs to mind are solely for the pros but they are thankfully very rare anywhere.
At worst, we can try to encourage them to call The Samaritans or talk to a loved one or ring a medical professional.
Its not for everyone though, I know some people don't like reading threads like that as it upsets them. It doesn't me because I've felt like that in the past but never to the depth of someone on the edge of doing it.
These websites are triggering in all sorts of ways, the HA board is an obvious example.
In my opinion the HA board is awful and just encourages the condition.
MyNameIsTerry
11-06-15, 09:10
In my opinion the HA board is awful and just encourages the condition.
I agree. It needs restructuring so that it is more than an issues board.
From reading more into HA & OCD I have also started to understand how that board is misused by people (innocently) talking about a different condition. Even GAD is a differential diagnosis and then there are somatoform disorders (the umbrella group to hypochondrical disorder) and since there are 2 diagnostic manuals used with different criterias for these, its a bit of a free-for-all.
That might not sound too bad at first given everyone feels the same. The trouble is, telling someone with OCD to stop Googling may not be valid at all as its not always part of the cycle as it is with the somotaform disorders and then there is the GAD issue.
It also needs supervision.
I guess a load of people have really left now as they wanted to focus on recovery, which there is a seperate set of boards in here for anyway that the rest of us use, instead of engaging with Nic & co to get it changed for the better.
Fell off a tractor about five feet onto my hip and shattered my femur. Putting it back together I got some nerve damage and infection. Pain was horrendous unless I stayed in one position. Had to be slung in and out of bed. Like most pinched nerves heat helped temporary. Death looked like the only way out. It looked like I would never walk again even though the leg was pinned and healed. I did not know my spine was damaged also. There is still pain but it is tolerable. 6 years ago now I think. You can find a reason to live if you really want one so maybe I was a bit depressed. I certainly did not want to live.
Hobbling out to transplant 30 cabbages and the same in cauliflower and broccoli. Because I can. Because I love sauerkraut.
So what turned you around, Davit? What made you want to live?
"Oh death, where is thy sting". Shakespeare.
There are a number of reasons to seek death. All wrong. The biggest is that life is not worth living. That is total negative attitude. That is not even the person talking but associated memory. That is a negative thought going through the contemplation side of Amygdala and finding suicide in associated memory as a solution. We all have memories of some one or ones who have killed themselves. and we all know it was stupid or unnecessary, but that is not what we think in a negative mood, we think I won't be able to stop myself. Because that thought fits the negative attitude where as thinking it is a shame about ...... but I'm not going that route is positive and doesn't fit with Amygdala's memory. (put it there, give it a choice. Left side can access positives, more farther down the page)
The next reason is no hope. Bills are piling up and you are getting no help only complaints. Financial things are not working out. So why do people kill themselves? They can walk away from their responsibility that way but not do it by just not paying their bills. People will think the same about you if you are dead or alive. Again memory. How many people do you know who got in debt and took the easy way out. More negative thoughts for Amygdala to use. Amygdala has no feelings, no heaven or hell, nothing but you to influence it. You die, it stops working is all. There is nothing but your memory to influence it's decisions.
No one will ever love me so I'm going to kill myself. They won't love you anymore after death. Again we have memory to blame for this.
Change how you see those memories.
So Jake what changed my mind. A cat. Responsibility. And you have more than that. So my If's were. If I die so do the cats. If I die someone has to dispose of my farm animals. If I die someone has to take care of my estate. If I die I will never know what the future might have been.
The pain is still there every day but tolerable. It does drive the negative thoughts but now Amygdala is met with positive thoughts in memory. I survived unbearable pain. I survived debt. I am a responsible person, I never let anyone down, not even a cat. I will be remembered for this.
So it would be responsibility changed my mind and changing memory kept it changed.
Yesterday I spent hours transplanting cabbages in pretty bad pain but afterwards I could sit on my deck and feel good because I did it. This is attitude. Thinking accomplishment not chore. Thinking sauerkraut not the bugs are going to eat them. Today I have peppers to put in a green house and I'm done planting. I'm weeks behind and I'm tired and sore and the cats don't care. I have only me to do this for, not like I had family it might mean something to. So my responsibility is to me mostly.
But really it is about memory. It is about giving Amygdala a better choice which it won't need as long as I think positive because then it gets bypassed and the suicide thought doesn't come up because that thought is attached to it only.
---------- Post added at 11:32 ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 ----------
Terry, pulisa
I agree with you and if anything was to drive me away it would be it, but you must remember that their fears are real. (mostly) So is it not up to us to lead with positives. To change the mood to success not gloom and doom. I am mentally quite strong but enough gloomy repetition and even I will start to think that way. I want to type forget this there is hope, there is a cure at the top of every page. It would get moved to the joke forum and buried. So here I sit, cured yet I have been told on here more than once there is no cure.
Okay, I'm wrong then in their eyes. Forget cured. I have no worry, anxiety, fear or panic. None, is that good enough. I don't take pills anymore and enjoy life even when it is sitting on my head kicking the crap out of me.
Second hand anxiety is anxiety you get from someone else venting excessively to get rid of their anxiety. It is a temporary cure for the venter and needs to be repeated and it does get repeated. This tiny bit of relief drives them. So vent, but not excessive please. Look for answers instead.
This is going to get me flack. Going to go get my armour ready.
Davit, I hope to be as wise as you someday.
As for your green thumb, I have to admit I never had a want to do that until recently. A large tract of land opened up behind my townhouse. It belongs to the state I live in. I decided to start a small garden this year and I tell ya, its been fun so far. Its not much, just some fruits and veggies, but next year I plan to expand it and have a lot more to choose. Yeah, the state can come by and make me take it down, but they won't. Its not like they're doing anything with it, anyway.
As for the HA forum that you guys talk about - I really don't have HA, I have mental HA, if you know what I mean. I'm consistently worried I'm going to become bipolar, schizophrenic, psychotic - anything related to mental health. Large black mole on my skin? Nah, I don't care. Heart skipping a beat and getting dizzy? Nope, doesn't phase me a bit. Strange lump on my neck? Probably an ingrown hair. Hell, I did a Marine type boot camp charity run, where you slide through mud, climb ropes, dive into mud pools - when I finished, I noticed both my knees were the size of softballs and bleeding profusely, yet I wasn't phased a bit. I just toughed it out.
Good for you jake. Gardening has it's disappointments but they just keep us sane. I lose a few plants to bugs but get most of it. The first strawberry or the first raspberries are worth it. Nothing tastes as good as your own garden. So another reason to live right.
I love spaghetti squash. I grow eight ball zucchini just for stuffing with lamb and rice.
Plant some small stinky marigolds in the rows to keep the bugs away. Put wood ash on the beets, and other root crops to kill carrot fly that causes maggots on all root crops.
MyNameIsTerry
12-06-15, 06:09
Terry, pulisa
I agree with you and if anything was to drive me away it would be it, but you must remember that their fears are real. (mostly) So is it not up to us to lead with positives. To change the mood to success not gloom and doom. I am mentally quite strong but enough gloomy repetition and even I will start to think that way. I want to type forget this there is hope, there is a cure at the top of every page. It would get moved to the joke forum and buried. So here I sit, cured yet I have been told on here more than once there is no cure.
Okay, I'm wrong then in their eyes. Forget cured. I have no worry, anxiety, fear or panic. None, is that good enough. I don't take pills anymore and enjoy life even when it is sitting on my head kicking the crap out of me.
Second hand anxiety is anxiety you get from someone else venting excessively to get rid of their anxiety. It is a temporary cure for the venter and needs to be repeated and it does get repeated. This tiny bit of relief drives them. So vent, but not excessive please. Look for answers instead.
This is going to get me flack. Going to go get my armour ready.
Yes, I agree. There have been several threads since I joined about that board and how it has changed to the negative and whenever I saw one I asked what they thought should be done. The result was silence other than I think one person who has headed off to the Facebook group now.
I also think a greater amount of driving needs to be done from the admins like on other forums but I know its all down to time and I don't know whats going on behind the scenes. It can be a problem with these places if the ship is largely on autopilot.
I find the issue less so on the other boards though.
It would be great if we could try and steer it but it needs a plan otherwise some of us would end up swamped by it all.
It does concern me also that my impression of the HA board is that its almost a separate website and I don't see many people on there posting elsewhere. If they are not reading around to understand their disorders, since HA is not a medical definition but a big bracket, then they miss out on other help and all the top tips/therapy stuff.
Yes, if they are reading the other threads they are not commenting. It does feel like a site of it's own. There are still some threads that are not negative but they seem few and seem to be getting fewer. Yes Terry if we try to lead you will get the load since you are the most knowledgeable and well respected.
MyNameIsTerry
13-06-15, 05:11
Yes, if they are reading the other threads they are not commenting. It does feel like a site of it's own. There are still some threads that are not negative but they seem few and seem to be getting fewer. Yes Terry if we try to lead you will get the load since you are the most knowledgeable and well respected.
Thanks for your confidence. Its a team effort though, there are loads of excellent posters on here and very knowledgeable people and this is my point, there are people on the Meds board I would want to answer my threads and people on the other like yourself and I think HA people are not benefitting where they could.
There is a long running support thread and some stickies but beyond that everything gets buried. This is something I don't understand about HA, the need for reassurance and diagnosis seems to overrule the need for recovery in many but it doesn't seem the same in the other disorders.
I think that there are some very needy people on the HA board who appear to "thrive" (ironically) on the attention they receive from posting about their symptoms and comparing notes with others. They also get very annoyed if their threads are "ignored" and are loathe to take on advice from others, preferring to develop their own lists of escalating symptoms.
I have HA and I really can't stand this approach.
Terry, could this need for reassurance be a personality trait they share that makes their posts so similar and appealing to each other. Could this need be a mental disorder of it's own that just doesn't have a name we are familiar with.
pulisa, support and reassurance does not seem to work as it does in other disorders. In fact it seems to me that it does the opposite. Could it be that having a reason to panic reduces their need to panic.
MyNameIsTerry
13-06-15, 09:25
I believe there is nothing wrong with reassurance, all human beings get & give it throughout their lives in some way and its used heavily in the workplace anyway. Its when you need to obtain it and then it only provides something temporary and you need to keep repeating this that becomes a problem as its a negative cycle of behaviour.
Reassurance in OCD is seen as a compulsion/ritual. I see it as the same in HA. But and its a big but, not everybody shows the same traits and thats the issue. Some people are in need of it, some have accepted their conditions and some are both. I don't think the way the HA board is set up and the descriptions work in favour of it and I believe there is a big assumption that if you post a thread on that board you are a hypochondriac. The trouble is, that old dictionary term doesn't match the diagnostic manual in use overhere thesedays and so what you end up with is a load of people with potentially different disorders all being given the same advice. This might work for many but telling someone with HIV OCD not to Google won't achieve anything since Googling isn't even in their compulsion!
Personality is definately an issue. At the most basic there is going to be a division between stronger minded people and those who are less strong minded. The ability to cope. In some it could be a personality disorder and we have several on here and several bipolar people and who knows if we have any schizophrenics too. This is why I don't like assumptions, you have no idea who you are talking to and what they write in a thread doesn't reflect everything they may be suffering with.
Its likely people more likeminded will be drawn together but in the case of some of the people I believe Pulisa would be referring to, not always as they are too engrossed in their issues.
So, probably some personality/character traits in play.
Having a reason to panic may infact do that. I wonder whether the level of panic would increase if a fear was realised via diagnosis or whether it would just be the same and their would be some level of short term relief that does the same for them as reassurance does.
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