View Full Version : In order to accept, do I need to physically let go of my body?
This is what Claire Weekes says...as I feel this way 24/7...should I be letting go 24/7?
---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------
If someone who used Claire Weekes for GAD and recovered and understands floating and all that stuff could answer that would be great...
“I tried to make him understand that he must be prepared to let his stomach churn and to continue reading his paper while it churned. He must try to loosen that tight hold on himself, literally let his body sag into the chair and go toward, not shrink from, any feeling his body brings him. In this way, and only in this way, would he eventually reach the stage when it would no longer matter whether his stomach churned or not.”
This loosening thing is very important in her work…that’s basically the definition of “floating”. I have chronic anxiety and was wondering if I should be “floating” 24/7…loosening any tension my body brings, etc. Wouldn’t that become a battle in itself, though? Or not necessarily?
I've never actually heard of Clare Weeks curing anyone. Coping yes, but not curing and there is a difference. Why not just do something Cognitive, that at least works.
I've heard of Claire Weekes' approach curing plenty..
Your one up on me, And I know licensed councillors (4) Who don't know her work.
But you know the rule, if it works use it. It is your life.
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 05:35
I've never heard of empirical evidence that is accepted that Weekes methods work, however some of what she says can be seen in therapies that have.
The rest is individual testimony. This is something you have to be careful with because you will find all the dodgy "guru's" also have this but in Weekes defence, she wasn't doing it for money unlike all of them! However, I would still find myself skeptical on the basis of anyone trying to sell her books because from my own research of some of the "guru's" I have found such people to often be fakes.
I think JonJones is going to be your man for this Ryukil. I don't see Weekes discussed much on here nowadays, it was when I joined, so I don't think there are as many people around using it.
Well I trust the testimony of people...I don't think people would lie about having suffered for 5, 10, 15, 20 years and then having recovered...they understand how awful anxiety is and would not lie.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure that the main thing all anxiety sufferers have to do is get to the point where they can get on with their lives and not be so bothered by the feelings anymore.
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 06:39
I think you mean you trust the testimony of people you trust.
If not, then have a look at some of the fake market affiliates. I can show you one on this forum that has been told off before by Nic for advertising. He goes by 2 different names and has left 2 testimonies on his "guru's" website, one of which says he had anxiety before he was even born if you look at his age on his affiliate marketers website!
You don't have to have suffered at all to make something up, just do your research, write an ebook and make your money.
I would trust Claire Weekes though, but people do try to profiteer off the best of intentions. I don't dispute that people likely have, just that I don't see real trusted evidence and until you have that, you do get lumped in with the guru's, some of which are very dodgy. She didn't go that route for her own reasons and maybe she would have eventually so it leaves some doubt there and I think you will only dispell that by reading the products and seeing if the make sense.
Claire Weekes isn't even alive anymore so I don't think she's trying to profiteer.
There is a guy who took Claire Weekes's work and charges 137 pounds for basically an expanded version of her stuff...which seems like a bit of a rip off considering you can buy one of her books for about 5 pounds.
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 06:56
Absolutely. Its not Weekes that would be profiteering, its guys like that and they have loads of testimonials I'm betting. You just have to separate out the sellers as they can't be trusted.
If its the one I'm thinking you mean, the market affiliate on here was one of his too.
Its a major bugbear of mine because we even now have people writing their own short books and publishing them via Amazon and people are parting with their money for recycled Claire Weekes with a blogppost attached for their backstory. I'm all for updated versions of Weekes but only from professionals, not the profiteering bunch. Sadly, recovering from such a life limiting disorder as this hasn't proven to improve the character of some of the sufferers which is a real shame.
But getting to the point you can get on with your life still sounds like coping, not cure, Cure is never having an anxiety or panic attack again. Clare has one thing in common with most therapists. Coping is treated as a cure. If coping is all you need then it is a cure I guess, but there is more. I believe she died before Behavioural therapy and Cognitive therapy were combined to become CBT. I will quit knocking her. She may be all you need, not so for me though. Like Terry said, some of her work has been combined into other therapies.
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 08:30
CBT was starting in the 1980's wasn't it so it would have been in the last 10 years of her life at most as didn't she die in 1990?
Just a thought, Ryukil, there is a Facebook page for her. Maybe they have some groups on there that could help you?
Davit, you say "I have actually never heard of Claire Weekes curing anyone" but the thing is that people aren't "cured by anyone", we cure ourselves. Some people get better using what they learn from Claire Weekes and others get better with what the learn from CBT.
If there was a one size fits all, nobody would be suffering.
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 09:19
I took it to mean a lack of evidence. CBT has evidence.
I don't put everything on evidence though because something can still help or be a cure without evidence. Lack of clinical evidence can mean no one has performed an adequate study yet. There are examples of treatments in the NHS which a few years ago were laughed at by doctors, yet here they are and endorssed by NICE. So, I'm open to things outside of evidence, but we can't the ability of the treatments that have it - it just coes back to what you say about us putting them effort in, along with getting a good therapist which can be a sticking point.
Davit, you say "I have actually never heard of Claire Weekes curing anyone" but the thing is that people aren't "cured by anyone", we cure ourselves. Some people get better using what they learn from Claire Weekes and others get better with what the learn from CBT.
If there was a one size fits all, nobody would be suffering.
Absolutely. I think it also depends on how you define "cure". Does it matter whether we are "coping" or "cured" if the end product is that we are leading happy and productive lives and not continually obsessing over anxiety and all that this entails?
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 10:44
I think thats the difference between "recovered" and "cured" to me.
If I'm "recovered", I accept that I still have it and have to manage it to prevent slipping. CBT does teach this and includes a maintainence training point in therapy for it (not that it happened in mine!). "Recovered" can still include issues that have not been resolved at a physical level. Relapse is possible but I have the skills in place to notice & try to prevent it.
If I'm "cured", then I know that everything has been corrected at a physical level. Even at the level I can still get an anxiety disorder, it just requires the right set of conditions to influence it but its less likely with the skills in place notice and stop it happening which will be easily as there is no remaining issue that will make it easier for anxiety to return.
I'm not sure that I could make that distinction, Terry. I don't actually think that anyone should be concerned about cure v coping if they are getting on with life-I don't see why it should matter?
Davit is passionate about becoming cured but this word means different things to different people. There is no set "way"-we are not robots (not yet, anyway:D)
Anxiety can't exist without us not caring if it's there or not. Sure we may always be more sensitive than other people but that's a good thing.
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-15, 12:20
I'm not sure that I could make that distinction, Terry. I don't actually think that anyone should be concerned about cure v coping if they are getting on with life-I don't see why it should matter?
Davit is passionate about becoming cured but this word means different things to different people. There is no set "way"-we are not robots (not yet, anyway:D)
The only reason I see it could matter is where coping becomes a life where you spend it fighting your way through situations that other people would take in their stride. If you get through much easier than that then I think it's perhaps closer to what I view as recovered so I should probably have had 3 terms instead. Cure I see as being able to withstand stress tests without a possible slip that could be seen in someone I see as recovered.
I guess my distinction between those 2 is a bit like the recovered alcoholic who has to manage future behaviour to prevent relapse whereas the cured person can happily engage in that level of activity that the recovered person is wary of I.e. higher levels of stress.
Perhaps we all feel differently about it but if you are happy, that's always your choice. Regardless of our beliefs though, we can move forward together.
I've never actually heard of Clare Weeks curing anyone. Coping yes, but not curing and there is a difference. Why not just do something Cognitive, that at least works.
I don't often disagree with you but even though this was 60 years ago Claire Weekes actually cured many many people but more importantly made them understand why they had anxiety and how to cope with it with the aim of a full recovery.
You could easily say that all the SSRI drugs that many on here and elsewhere take, don't cure the particular mental health problem, but mask it and some people feel a lot better than before.
It's all about quality of life, isn't it ?
---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:38 ----------
Davit, you say "I have actually never heard of Claire Weekes curing anyone" but the thing is that people aren't "cured by anyone", we cure ourselves. Some people get better using what they learn from Claire Weekes and others get better with what the learn from CBT.
If there was a one size fits all, nobody would be suffering.
Exactly,Sial.
CBT didn't work for me, only a 60% success rate where I live but that is still 60 out of 100 are now leading a better life, hopefully without medication.
Rennie1989
23-06-15, 13:03
CBT started in the 50's and 60's by two guys called Aaron Beck and Albert Ellis, but it has shaped itself over the years to be as it is today.
I went on a stress course and we were taught how to relax by purposely tensing your muscles (group by group) and releasing them. It gave you a feel of what it was like for your muscles to be in a relaxed state and to give you awareness of when you're tense. So in that respect she sounds logical to me, the 'floating' business, however, I'm not so sure. I've never read Weeke's books and never felt the need to, so I can't really say.
But 'floating' and such 24/7 doesn't sound right to me. You need to make time to relax, sure, but you can't be relaxed all day unless you meditate or something! But the awareness is far better.
The only reason I see it could matter is where coping becomes a life where you spend it fighting your way through situations that other people would take in their stride. If you get through much easier than that then I think it's perhaps closer to what I view as recovered so I should probably have had 3 terms instead. Cure I see as being able to withstand stress tests without a possible slip that could be seen in someone I see as recovered.
I guess my distinction between those 2 is a bit like the recovered alcoholic who has to manage future behaviour to prevent relapse whereas the cured person can happily engage in that level of activity that the recovered person is wary of I.e. higher levels of stress.
Perhaps we all feel differently about it but if you are happy, that's always your choice. Regardless of our beliefs though, we can move forward together.
Yes, I certainly agree with that. "Coping" can be seen as negative or positive anyway- I tend to see it with a positive slant. I think that's OK? I don't really know what "cured" would be for me? The levels of stress I deal with on a daily basis would challenge most people without an anxiety disorder.
Ah well, at the end of the day we all deal with our problems in different ways but it's good to exchange views on here with people who understand.
Rennie1989
23-06-15, 13:47
One thing I learnt on my counselling course that relates to this is that an event does not, itself, trigger the anxiety or depressive symptoms/disorders, rather it's how we view and react to that situation. An example of this is a film I watched called United, which represented the Munich Air Disaster that killed most of the Manchester United football team, two characters avoided serious harm, one got up and helped those in need whilst the other was paralysed by the realisation of what happened. They both experienced the same disaster but reacted differently. This is kind of where CBT comes in because it states that if you change your way of thinking and behaving to a certain situation then you will react positively to it.
I like the definition of 'recovered' and 'cured'. There is obviously a very grey and murky line between the two in mental illness, I would class myself as 'cured' from panic disorder but 'recovered' from GAD because I can now stop panic attacks from occuring but I can manage my anxiety to a point where I can use my techniques to lessen it. I won't give myself a hard time if I never cure myself from GAD because I know that I need to still feel anxiety to be a normal, functioning human being (for example having that heart thumping moment when I heard my husband was in hospital and having the sweating and shaking on my first day at work) but it's understanding the definition between normal anxiety and severe anxiety.
And, I think, that's where people fall. Anxiety is a nasty thing, but we cannot be anxiety free. People without anxiety disorders get anxious.
One thing I learnt on my counselling course that relates to this is that an event does not, itself, trigger the anxiety or depressive symptoms/disorders, rather it's how we view and react to that situation. An example of this is a film I watched called United, which represented the Munich Air Disaster that killed most of the Manchester United football team, two characters avoided serious harm, one got up and helped those in need whilst the other was paralysed by the realisation of what happened. They both experienced the same disaster but reacted differently. This is kind of where CBT comes in because it states that if you change your way of thinking and behaving to a certain situation then you will react positively to it.
I like the definition of 'recovered' and 'cured'. There is obviously a very grey and murky line between the two in mental illness, I would class myself as 'cured' from panic disorder but 'recovered' from GAD because I can now stop panic attacks from occuring but I can manage my anxiety to a point where I can use my techniques to lessen it. I won't give myself a hard time if I never cure myself from GAD because I know that I need to still feel anxiety to be a normal, functioning human being (for example having that heart thumping moment when I heard my husband was in hospital and having the sweating and shaking on my first day at work) but it's understanding the definition between normal anxiety and severe anxiety.
And, I think, that's where people fall. Anxiety is a nasty thing, but we cannot be anxiety free. People without anxiety disorders get anxious.
Rennie
When you quote the United players as an example don't you think it maybe far simpler that a person's make up is in their genes and also some people are always positive whilst others are not.
We are all born that at some stage in our lives we maybe faced with anxiety that gets out of control and becomes an illness or that we have the angst for a brief period but then get back to normal. Why are we all so different ? Maybe it's just too complex to explain.
All I know is that generally most people don't understand those of us afflicted with this illness and we are very vunerable at varying stages of our lives and sometimes clutch at straws as we are desperate for help.
And that's where the charlatans dive in.....
As regards the Munich air disaster, no one can predict how individuals will react in such a trauma. The most anxiety-ridden individual could be the brave hero whereas the calm and collected strong man could be a juddering heap. And it's not always a different perception of the threat- it could be down to sheer bravery?
MyNameIsTerry
25-06-15, 07:22
Thats a pretty complicated issue. Its not like the lads that join the army are SAS candidates by day 1 and then they have to be put through intense training to be able to act that way. A lot of it can be training and they do teach them how to control their adrenaline, not stop it.
A fair bit of it can be said is formed by how we grow up and then in later changes as we grow or adapt in adult life. I don't see it as being genetic although I can't say I've ever reads into it.
There is an interesting book called The Good Psychopaths Guide. It explains how the word "psychopath" is known commonly for the bad when it is a term that has 2 forms and one of them can be used for good. This is explained by the use of certain core attributes and how the good psychopath can turn them up or down from their balanced state in order to tackle extreme challenges e.g. special forces (Andy McNab is mentioned in this book a fair bit). It also explains how the traditionally viewed psychopath, the bad one, can't do this to adjust back to normal society and that their levels (the dials) are permantly fixed at a high level.
Its interesting.
There are likely some physical issues in here, such as the size of certain areas of the brain.
Hi Rennie
It is good to hear some one say the things I have said. But see they still missed the point, whether you have a negative or positive attitude it is still how you see the trigger that causes the reaction. Hippocampus, Amygdala and Hypothalamus have fixed rolls.
You could say of negative thought, garbage in garbage out. It can do nothing else because of the fixed rolls. But if you put positive in positive comes out. Unfortunately negative riders too often get attached and then it is negative and positive does not come out.
MyNameIsTerry
25-06-15, 10:14
And that's where the charlatans dive in.....
I must not mention "Lord Vordemont", he could still have his spies watching...:winks:
Who is he? Any relation to your fave Carol Vorder-look- at-me-man?
MyNameIsTerry
28-06-15, 07:46
Who is he? Any relation to your fave Carol Vorder-look- at-me-man?
Its the baddie in Harry Potter and for most of the early films he is referred to as "he who's name can't be spoken", so it fits well for this guy http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=152271
My fave, Carol "honest I'm still wearing my daughters clothes" Vorderman? :blush: I feel I've let myself slip something out...:D
Sunflower2
28-06-15, 08:15
Pulisa you don't know who Voldemort is?? I am shocked!
I know, Kimberley:blush: It's sad, isn't it?! I never have been interested in Pottermania although I have been to platform 9 and three quarters ? at Kings Cross station where you can queue up and get your pic taken (I didn't:D)
I do watch Big Brother though and am well schooled in The Phenomenon Wot Is Kimye.:winks: But I've passed on Potter:)
MyNameIsTerry
28-06-15, 09:00
I know, Kimberley:blush: It's sad, isn't it?! I never have been interested in Pottermania although I have been to platform 9 and three quarters ? at Kings Cross station where you can queue up and get your pic taken (I didn't:D)
I do watch Big Brother though and am well schooled in The Phenomenon Wot Is Kimye.:winks: But I've passed on Potter:)
Do you follow the forums on Digital Spy when its running? And people think this place has people with issues?! :D
I used to read the threads when it was running but it kind of takes over your life. I don't watch BB much now though but I used to.
Ah this is what makes this site interesting.
Do you follow the forums on Digital Spy when its running? And people think this place has people with issues?! :D
I used to read the threads when it was running but it kind of takes over your life. I don't watch BB much now though but I used to.
I am actually "required" to watch BB with my daughter as she feels compelled to watch it (+ BOTS with Rylan)I know all about Digital Spy as even my daughter had to give up following the threads as they were just coming thick and fast and were total BS!
Now I make a confession- I have actually been an audience member on 3 Big Mouth shows with Russell Brand and 1 Little Brother show with Dermot O'Leary:ohmy:My daughter loved these shows but was too young at the time to take part so I went instead and told her all about it! I was on the Jade Goody eviction show following the Shilpa Shetty race row and that was very exciting-the police were there with their tracker dogs etc
Happy distractions! I cringe now when I think about those shows but it was an experience!
Sunflower2
28-06-15, 16:32
Ahh Pulisa, I grew up with Harry Potter as they were the same age as me when the films came out! The final one was like the end of an era because it meant we were all grown up too.
Wow, you're practically a celebrity!! The most I've done is get in my local paper!
---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------
I also haven't heard of Digital Spy... Who's the old one now!
Rennie1989
28-06-15, 16:38
Rennie
When you quote the United players as an example don't you think it maybe far simpler that a person's make up is in their genes and also some people are always positive whilst others are not.
Environmental factors is also an issue. I remember when hubby and I were coming home from our honeymoon the plane had an awkward landing and the wings were rocking up and down. My hubby asked if we would be OK whilst me, an experienced flyer, knew that this landing was not normal but I put a brave face on and told him that this was normal. I had the anxiety disorder, he didn't, yet I was more calm and brave than he was. It's really hard to know how people will react until they are in that situation, which is my point.
Davit - I think I have gone over the biological factors enough now, yes they do play a part but there are psychological and environmental factors that play a part too.
Yes but like the wings on your plane, they are only triggers and can get two different reactions.
No matter if you change your environment, job, diet or meds, they only help. Cognitive restructuring is what cures. Sometimes changing the above allows you to without noticing you are doing it. And the change gets all the credit.
Rennie1989
28-06-15, 16:55
I am a counselling student, I self-analyse and notice a lot regarding my psyche ;)
Don't tell people that, they will know you are studying them too. Lots of raw material here.
:-)
MyNameIsTerry
29-06-15, 05:30
also haven't heard of Digital Spy... Who's the old one now!
Kind of a mix between Twitter, Facebook & a review site. I have a look sometimes but it is a place for trolls so its not somewhere I would frequent.
I used to be on MoneySavingExpert for a few years. Less trolls on there, more sellers getting booted off by the admins. A good place for advice & tips though and FULL of people who work in the industries it has forums on, like I was, so you get advice telling you when companies are lieing to you and how to kick them, what your rights are, etc.
---------- Post added at 05:30 ---------- Previous post was at 05:28 ----------
I am actually "required" to watch BB with my daughter as she feels compelled to watch it (+ BOTS with Rylan)I know all about Digital Spy as even my daughter had to give up following the threads as they were just coming thick and fast and were total BS!
Now I make a confession- I have actually been an audience member on 3 Big Mouth shows with Russell Brand and 1 Little Brother show with Dermot O'Leary:ohmy:My daughter loved these shows but was too young at the time to take part so I went instead and told her all about it! I was on the Jade Goody eviction show following the Shilpa Shetty race row and that was very exciting-the police were there with their tracker dogs etc
Happy distractions! I cringe now when I think about those shows but it was an experience!
I couldn't handle being required to watch Rylan, I have enough issues already!
So, you are being treated to The Speakmans then? The final nail in their coffin being put in the same box as Judy James & co!
Perhaps I've seen you booing then, I used to watch it more back then? :D
Urgh....Dame Judy James and Dr Pam Spurrrrrr Gruesome twosome but not as bad as the vile Speakmans.
Instantly switchoffable
MyNameIsTerry
29-06-15, 09:30
No matter how many times I press the red button, they are still there and breathing! :doh:
Don't forget Jet, I was pretty young back then so I can't! :blush: (she should have stuck to the rings though)
She's not on anymore. I think The Speakmans have supplanted her....or she saw sense
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.