Do you think my brother will be sectioned?

[ShaunRyder]

Ok, my family is going through a massive hard time at the moment. My brothers fiancee is in a coma with liver damage, has been for two weeks. The stress has got too much for my brother and is having a psychotic breakdown.

He does not know who anyone is, he thinks people want to kill him, he says all drug dealers need to die, he saying he is dead, he thinks he is god and switching from aggressive to calm behavior.

Mental health team are giving us a home visit tomorrow to asses him, it sounds bad but i want him to get sectioned so he can get proper treatment. He was sectioned last year for the same thing but not until he smashed his house up and attacked three policeman. I am worried they will let him stay at home as so far he has caused no damage but from past experience he could do.

Just want some advice as I am so scared and worried and no where else to turn to as I have had to leave the house due to him thinking I was there to hurt him so I had to stay somewhere else. Anyone think he will be taken into hosp? or kept at home? :weep:

[Greenman50]

No idea , sorry .

But you will know more than the team , insist and state the reasons in your post and dont take no for an answer imho .

Best wishes

[aprilmoon]

Hi
I've been through this with my daughter so know how distressing it is.
There's no way of knowing what will happen until he's evaluated really,tell them everything that's been happening, perhaps write things down that you think could be important.Hope things go smoothly for you and your family.

[eastofeden]

I know this is very stressful and scary for you, but if he is sectioned, it might be the best for him. Remember, he won't be there forever, it's a temporary management thing. He won't be able to hurt himself or other people, and he won't end up being arrested for attacking anyone. Being put in a jail cell is much more dangerous than being sectioned. Police officers often don't know how to handle mental breakdowns. At least in a hospital he will be able to get medication/treatment that he really needs and there will be people there keeping an eye on him. I know mental illness is really scary, but it can be managed and controlled, but it's not possible to fix it by yourself. My uncle had paranoid schizophrenia and it was very hard to witness. Sometimes he'd just lie there not moving for 3 days in a row, sometimes he was so aggressive and manic and said he could see people and figures, and threatened to hurt us so we had to leave the house for our own safety. One time he took all his meds at once and the family was so stressed because we thought he was going to die, but he was okay. But he did eventually get it under control and he is much more stable now as he takes his medication. He has to take it on time though otherwise it flares up again. Obviously this is a very traumatic situation for your brother and it must have triggered his underlying illness. Does he take meds for his illness? Has he been diagnosed? Has he been taking them as he should? Just remember psych nurses and doctors are there to help, not hurt him. Some doctors are fantastic. One doctor in particular helped calm my uncle down so much he managed to stop having hallucinations and delusions.

[ShaunRyder]

Hi eastofeden, Thank you for your reply. Last year he was diagnosed with psycosis due to stress. Last time he was sectioned was a year ago and he was there for about 3 weeks, he came home and stopped taking his meds(despite the whole family telling him he needed too) but he returned to his normal self and this lasted a whole year until the last couple weeks with the stress of his fiancee. I know what you mean about leaving the house for your own safety, he is fine with my parents, but me he thinks I am there to hurt him and when he saw me he would getting angry at me or cry (it killed me to see it he was so scared of me) so my parents asked me to stay at a friends until he has been assessed which of course is for the best. They have managed to calm him but they are having to play along with what he is saying otherwise he gets mad. Mental health team will be visiting him tomorrow and I do hope they take him to Hosp to get proper treatment. Also how is your uncle now?

[eastofeden]

Hi ShaunRyder, I'm not a psychiatrist but I know like you said some people oddly don't exhibit any symptoms of psychosis until they suffer a stressful event, and for some reason that chemical reaction in their brain triggers a relapse again. It can be hard to get someone to take their meds. But if a doctor says he should be taking them, he should probably be taking them.

Ask your parent to bring this up tomorrow, tell the mental health team about him suddenly stopping his meds a year ago, maybe he can be re-assessed and they will be able to provide him with a new dosage or a different medication.

Sometimes stopping medication suddenly can feel normal, but it can be dangerous to stop without consulting a psychiatrist first. It can cause even worse flare-ups without even knowing it. They're powerful drugs and usually need to be slowly weaned off of, sometimes withdrawal causes worse symptoms, they might even be delayed like in this case.

I know it feels pretty devastating when someone with delusions thinks you are bad or want to hurt them. They say things that are really strange or behave in ways which are frightening. It makes you start questioning yourself. But please don't feel guilty or sad about your brother being scared of you or thinking you want to hurt him. Remember it's not really him, it's his illness talking and making him see things that way. It doesn't mean it's true. It's like when you have a fever and start imagining things that aren't there or hallucinating. It doesn't mean you actually feel that way. Just remember his illness can be managed. I'm sure they will get him back on track again, and he will stop feeling so frightened or paranoid. There's a lot they can do. Tell your parents to seize this opportunity and voice all their/your concerns, don't be afraid to ask about certain things, that's what they're there for. There's nothing to be ashamed about.

My uncle went from completely psychotic and paranoid to stable and functional after a few days of the right meds. It helped re-balance the chemicals in his brain. If he can recover, so can your brother.

The good news is that your brother's psychosis obviously isn't permanent, it's aggravated by stress, and he did go back to normal before, and he can go back to normal again this time. Flareups are a lot more treatable. It's not a permanent thing. He won't be that way forever, and you will be able to build up your relationship again. Don't take anything he says right now to heart. He's not himself. They might not even section him, but at least if they do, he'll be safer there and can get all the help he needs.

It might take a while, but this too shall pass. :hugs:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Really sorry to hear about this, Shaun. It must be a very stressful time for you all. How are you holding up?

I don't know about the sectioning but like you and eastofeden say, it might be for the best. At least that way you know he is getting the help & support he needs through this difficult time.

As suggested, write down what you want to say. In sectioning there will be a family member involved in the process anyway and this will give you a chance to get across your worries for any potential escalation.

Sectioning isn't straightforward as there are different types of sections but maybe this excellent guide on the MIND website will help you understand?

http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/sectioning/#.Vd6J7rJViko

[Fishmanpa]

Ultimately, if he is sectioned, it will be for his own good and safety as well as that of others but you know this based on the history.

When I was on the road touring many years ago, our bass player had this happen. He was always kind of a peculiar guy but a fantastic musician and nice fella. We knew he had some issues in the past and was on meds. Unbeknownst to us, he has stopped taking his meds. We knew something was off as we could see him more inside of himself and then the psychosis taking over. Then, one night during a performance he went off on our lead singer accusing him of turning off his bass rig. He literally thought this happened! His amp was on and there was sound coming out but he wasn't hearing it.

Long story short, he was hospitalized for a couple of weeks while they got him back on his meds and stabilized.

I'm glad to hear help is forthcoming. Hopefully the health team will get him back on track.

Positive thoughts

[MrAndy]

I think you have to have some faith in the mental health team,try and talk to them about his condition I am sure they will listen.I was put into hospital twice but given the choice voluntary and nowhere near as bad as your brother sounds
good luck

[ShaunRyder]

Thank you eastofeden, Fishmanpa, MyNameIsTerry and MrAndy for your replies I read them this morning and was a huge help, so thank you.

Right, got another concern/question as something else has just happened..

This afternoon, the mental health team visited my brother. They said he was un well and took him to the nearest mental health hospital for an a assessment. Well... We have just had a call from the local police station... We have been told he has assaulted a doctor and he ran off, the police picked him up near by. The police said they are waiting to hear from the hospital to see if they will take him back.

Now, what will happen if the hospital will not take him after the assault? What will the police do? It is very clear he is a threat to other people and maybe himself.Surely the police will not let him back onto the streets on his own? He needs to be at a hospital.

Thanks guys.

[Fishmanpa]

Dang! I'm sorry to hear this. Anything that involves the well being of our family certainly can be stressful. Hope things work out....

Positive thoughts

[MrAndy]

He will probably get sectioned which wouldn't be a bad thing,I was in a pysch ward the doctors and nurses got assaulted every day.THey will know how to handle him

[MyNameIsTerry]

I bet if you posed this question to the doctor be assaulted be would reassure you that is an occupational hazard to him. It's not like someone kicking off in A&E drunk, this is someone who doesn't understand what they are doing.

The police just need advice on how the hospital intend to deal with it so they ask.

MrAndy had been in there and knows how it can be. I have been chatting to a guy in my local supermarket because his elderly dad was very ill at the city hospital. They transferred him to a smaller hospital and he said people were kicking off & attacking the staff a lot. I knew straight away which hospital be was going to say because it's the one that deals with serious mental health conditions.

He was accepted last time after violence towards the police. These hospitals have to take them, there are no other facilities to handle this without being convicted. If not that hospital, there will be one with better facilities to handle the situation.

[eastofeden]

To be honest, psychiatric nurses and doctors are very used to violent/aggressive patients, it's just one of the risks of their jobs. Like Terry says, it's not malicious because he doesn't understand what he's doing. But it sounds like they might have underestimated how much help he needs. A person suffering from psychosis needs constant supervision by numerous staff. They will probably just take him back to the ward and try to calm him down again until he's more stable. I know it's unfortunate for the doctor and I hope he's okay but don't feel too bad about it. It's probably not the first time he's been assaulted by a patient.

[swgrl09]

Well I am so sorry to read about what you and your family are going through. It is unbelievably difficult to watch a loved one who is not doing well actively fight help.

I worked on an inpatient unit for behavioral health and all of the staff is trained in how to work with aggressive and violent people. I would be surprised if they turned him away. If anything, it just demonstrates that he really does need to be there. I don't think we ever said no to somebody who was violent but instead worked with them so they could be stabilized.

[ShaunRyder]

Hello everyone,

Thanks your replies and advice been a real help.

My brother has been sectioned now and will be in for a min of 28 days and more if needed. He will now make a full recovery :) The doctor he assaulted has no injuries and was safe and said he understood my brother was very unwell.

Thank you all for the support and advice :)

[Greenman50]

Hi Shaun

Good News in bad circumstances .

Wish you all well chin up buddy .

Best wishes

xxx

[swgrl09]

Glad to hear he is going to get the help he needs and be in a safe place!! :hugs:

[eastofeden]

Good luck Shaun. Your brother is in safe hands.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Glad to hear things are more settled and he is getting the help he needs. That must be a massive relief for you & your family?

[ShaunRyder]

Hey guys,

Yes, well the last few days have been a relief, but now we have another situation and just wandered if anyone of you could help?

He has been moved to a different hospital, where they say he can have his mobile phone 24/7, now this is a huge problem for the safety for a family member of ours plus himself.

My younger brother(Not the one in hospital) was a witness in a court case where his evidence sent down a few 'nasty' people, he has had threats but it all stopped. My older brother(the one who is in hospital) before getting sectioned and was having his breakdown threatened to message these people saying he is going to get them etc. Which will put my younger brothers safety at risk. The hospital were informed of this.. But now they have giving our brother his phone back where he has access to facebook and whatsapp, he has messaged my younget saying he will message them. My mum has rang the hospital ASAP and demanded it is taken off him for the safety of our youngest. But they are refusing ''its not our problem'' they have said.

Can they do this? Let a mental health sufferer have a phone when he is threatening to message people and put others in danger? Also if they do not take it off them can we somehow get him moved to a different place?

What can we do, call the police and say someones safety is could be at risk? So worried and confused as to what is going!

[23tana]

It sounds to me as if you need to involve the police if you cannot get the phone back.

[swgrl09]

I would have to agree with getting the police involved..

[ShaunRyder]

Thank you so much, we are going to contact now.

Disgusted how a 'hospital' would let a mentally ill person who has been sectioned go on apps like facebook and whatsapp to give out threats without a care who else it could affect, after being begged to removed it from him many many times.

[ShaunRyder]

Well.. Police were contacted, told us at this stage there is nothing they can do. So, we rang the hospital again, we bluffed a little this time said we had contacted a a solicitor, the hospital then told us ''Everything is fine, his phone was taken off him and has been locked away''

We was so relieved..

But wait... an hour a later he is sending messages to us, saying he is in a gas chamber and it is all 'X' Fault (Will not give out the name he said) and he is going to message him on facebook saying he will get him! (This is how unstable he is to have possession of a mobile phone with the freedom to do what he wants)

So they have lied to us because we brung up the word 'solicitor'. For anyone who is in the UK, this guys is a great example of our NHS!

What hope does my brother have in a hospital like this? They lied to us just to keep us off their backs. This is meant to be a high secure NHS Hospital.

I will apologize now for these messages, but its 2am, i've not slept since Friday, not eaten since friday because of the stress of the situation. My anxiety is..well, my anxiety has left the universe its that bad. My HA is making me think I have Lung cancer, I am worrying about my brothers health and worrying if he will message anyone that could potentially bring danger to my family!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Call their bluff on the phone, raise a complaint about being lied to and put pressure on them.

Perhaps spin it around and remind them they could be allowing an inpatient to potentially break the law by sending threatening messages that could see the police contacting them.