Vitamin D deficency may be causing your problems [Archive]

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panicface

14-09-15, 00:27

I went through years of anxiety and depression:
- sleeping 10 to 14hrs a day
- joint and muscle aches
- anxiety
- palpitations
- brain fog
- depression (severe)
- little paranoia
- overall just feeling bad, like i had chronic fatigue syndrome
- migraines with aura

took b2 and magnesium daily to keep things in check.

then had a doctor tell me to get my Vitamin D checked. Sure enough I was extremely deficient (15).

there's also another condition called 'hyperparathyroidism' (just a small tumor on your parathyroid gland - can be removed in 15 min)

so you should get your calcium checked when you check Vitamin D. if your calcium is over 10.1 probably you have this. (google it)

both of these issues (low D and high Calcium) can lead to just about all of the problems you see on this board.

i just now got my results of very low D and fairly high Calcium. right now doing daily sun exposure and supplementing D - will test blood monthly. but have high hopes that this has been my problem for the last decade.

Zeldagirl

14-09-15, 01:45

Please please update your progress with this. During a really bad episode a few months back i insisted on blood work because I was falling apart and I had a strong feeling I had something physical causing or amplifying it. I thought it was my thyroid because I have had nodules on my thyroid for years and never had it checked. Basic thyroid test came back normal but I kept pressing for more tests. Sure enough I found out I have Hashimotos which is an autoimmune disease of the thyroid and its trying to kill my thyroid but so far it's still working. Also a bad vitamin d deficiency (16). I can't take vitamin d so have been doing it with the sun but have managed to bring it up to 24 this summer. I feel so much better than I did im not sure if raising my d that little bit did it or not but I'm certain this is all connected no matter what the doctors say. Please let us know how this goes :)

MyNameIsTerry

14-09-15, 05:25

I know a have most of those symptoms along with various others. I have also found that the more my sleep schedule slipped, so that I was receiving less sunlight, the worse the fatigue seemed to get. The first 2 times I noticed this were followed by improvement in the sunnier months but now my sleep schedule means I will rarely get any sunlight so my vitamin D don't be great anymore.

I have also found myself having more problems with joints and aches over the last 18 months which could be connected to this since the lack of vitamin D will affect calcium. The funny thing is too that calcuim is used for excitory neurotransmitters so too much could be a problem too and this may tie in with a lack of magnesium balance as well as lack of vitamin K2 to push to calcium to where it is needed.

I also take a decent dose of transdermal magnesium for the joint issues which is going to be hampered by a lack of vitamin D.

I have bought some D3 5000IU to add to the high strength Omega 3 oil which has 400IU in it.

SADnomore

14-09-15, 07:16

Hello, all!

I would like to chime in here on the need for vitamin K2. I am finding numerous scientific studies which confirm the roles of K2 in bone health and the prevention of atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries caused by calcium deposits). Still there is no RDA for Vitamin K2, nor routine blood testing. My own doctor dismisses the findings of the Japanese women's study in which bone fractures in osteoporotic women were prevented by K2 in doses of 45 mg per day. I have in past had results for osteopenia in bone scans, yet he refuses to test my levels.

There has never been an issue with harm from overdose with K2 reported, and yet I cannot find a supplement containing any useful amount in Canada. I feel I will be forced to order 5 mg K2 online (made in US) pay the duties, and hope I receive it, since rumour has it that anything over 1.5 mg is not allowed in the country (and I am unable to find even that distributed here, online or otherwise).

My main caution to anyone at present taking higher doses of Vitamin D is to bear in mind that without vitamin K, the calcium it supports may very well end up in our arteries and joints instead of our bones and teeth! This is not conjecture or bad science. It's the truth. Vitamin K2 is what shunts calcium around, it is not self-directed at all.

Consequently, I have once more moderated my daily supplementation of both until I am able to take a decent K2 supplement to go along with them. (Yes, there are food sources, but unless one is eating natto (the fermented soybeans) at least 3 times per week, it simply is not going to be adequate.) I have exhaustively researched food sources, and was shocked to learn that, contrary to popular nutritional citing, vegetable sources once digested are woefully small, even in spinach etc., and cheeses such as Brie and gouda outside of Switzerland are heat-treated (pasteurized) in such a way as to nullify their natural vitamin K.

Also, I had hoped that my omega supplement would contain vitamin A (also plays a role), it doesn't, so I am seeking a good beta carotene supplement for my body to use for this. I dare not take Vitamin A and risk toxicity with it, because ... you guessed it, this is only prevented by an adequate level of Vitamin K!

For the life of me I don't know why the medical establishment is so willfully reluctant to support the roles of these crucial elements and vitamins which we DO NOT get from our diets and northern climes!

Vitamins A, D, C, K, (particularly K2 (K2-MK4 for osteoporosis treatment), magnesium and calcium are all of needs, synergistic, and critical to our physical and mental health. Taking one or two without the others is to put ourselves at risk of harm through imbalance. But good luck finding a doctor who will acknowledge and support this, they really only study pharmaceuticals!

Rant over ... :mad:

MyNameIsTerry

14-09-15, 07:40

I agree, Marie. My GP is a pretty typical "pill pusher" and in 9 years nothing has ever been discussed about diet other than "are you getting 3 meals a day?". :doh: My works occupational heath nurse surprised me by wanting to discuss diet in regard to more serotonin but then fell flat on his face when he started citing "serotonin foods" :doh:, since we both know those are rare and it's tryptophan foods but then there is the whole issue with how they are even used.

I just don't understand why doctors refer people for expensive therapies and dish out endless meds yet they don't consider the basics of nutritional requirement and how a deficiency could have developed. In poorer countries they don't even give out meds until they have looked at these issues so it seems we could be learning from their methods.

I know what you mean on the synergy issue too. My magnesium is bound to be not used as well as it could with my lack of sunlight. I get plenty of calcium as I eat dairy and have yogurt daily but I probably lack in k2 (although maybe my Quark helps here? I will have to check on whether it is heat treated now after you mentioned this) but I certainly will be lacking in D3.

Have you noticed that there are now tanning beds with D3 lamps? I've seen them as a recommended form of D3 treatment on the Mercola articles but it did make we wonder how safe they were. (surely they must be somehow or no doctor would ever recommend them?)

SADnomore

14-09-15, 08:18

I had one doctor, one time, tell me to go to a tanning salon a couple of times a week when I lived in Prince Rupert, BC - he even said, "but I'll bet I am the only doctor who will ever advise you to do so!" He did say not to TAN, but just to lay inside the bed for 3 to 5 minutes, with eye protection. ... I think that maybe until I have the Vitamin K supplement I will try this again. The kind of vitamin D our own bodies make in short sessions is probably safer than the multiple drops I have been ingesting up to now ...

Also *** PLEASE NOTE: Do not take Vitamin K if you are on anticoagulants. (Eg. Warfarin)***

Sorry, forgot to mention that.

MyNameIsTerry

14-09-15, 09:07

There's a difference between the lamps too, those with UVA don't help you produce vitamin D as far as I know but UVB does but I think there is also a wavelength range in there too. It seems that it's something to do a couple of times a week too which is interesting when you consider the SAD lamps are an everyday thing.

Sounds like that doctor might have been clued up?

Also, there are greater benefits to natural production on vitamin D anyway so it makes sense to get it that way if it's possible.

pulisa

14-09-15, 11:49

So is taking Vitamin D3 on its own useless without the K2 as well?

Should we all just b*gger off to the Tropics?!:D

MyNameIsTerry

14-09-15, 12:12

We need K2 to show the calcium where to go properly or it ends up as calcified deposits in places we don't want. (Marie, doesn't the Serrapeptase break that down or does that stuff just work on dead protein cells? I can't remember). But when you take D3 above a certain level, it can end up causing more harm than it does good so you have to increase your K2 to make sure it is kept in check.

Marie knows much more about this. I only know what I have learnt from Marie recently and some Googling to see what some of the online medics say about it. One clinic was advising K2 at 100mcg for every 5,000-10,000IU that you take.

The tropics would be nice though! :yesyes:

SADnomore

14-09-15, 21:54

Lol! Yes, yes, we should definitely all bugger off to the tropics, ha ha! Keep on buying those lottery tickets, and whoever wins first will invite the others down for a month! (It may be a year or two to accommodate us all, be patient! :winks: )

Until then ... Terry's found recommended dose of 1,000 mcg (1 mg) Vitamin K2 for every 5,000-10,000 units of Vitamin D sounds reasonable. I know I will feel much more comfortable this way!

And yes, it's true! Serrapeptase works to remove deposits in our arteries that have found their way there, whatever the reason. Even in the case that, and for as long as, arthritic and other inflammatory pain is not being relieved, inflammation elsewhere in the body is being reduced. I will feel even better about that factor once I have K2 on board as well. Call me crazy, but serrapeptase is safe, the way it works makes sense, and if it helps to cut down on chemical pain relievers, then to me it is worth a try. So far it has kept me off them for weeks, and I am hopeful that once some of the other inflammation in my body is resolved, then it will be a real boon once winter comes and I can look forward to taking fewer pills than usual. My liver will thank me. :D
Marie xx

blue moon

14-09-15, 21:55

Plenty of sun and wide open spaces down under,come on down:hugs:

sial72

14-09-15, 22:37

Hi guys
I have pharma induced polyneuropathy. Since you seem to know a lot about supps... I am on B-vit complex, magnesium, iron, vit D, vit C and Reishi...anything else you would suggest? Also any idea if it is bad to take any of these for long periods of time? Thanks xx

MyNameIsTerry

14-09-15, 23:26

SADnomore

15-09-15, 04:17

Blue_Moon! Just post directions and I'll be right over ... as it gets colder here, it's warming up there, right? Perfect, lol!! :D

Sial72, hiya! It sounds like a great protocol you're on, the only one I can think of that warrants a caution on long-term use may be iron? Only because it can build up and create an excess, but regular blood testing ought to give the heads-up to prevent that. I was vegetarian for a good 8 years before my iron level dropped to where I needed supplementation, and then the minute my bloodwork came back normal, the doc had me stop taking it. ... They say it's quite readily absorbed in our diet, although as I say, I don't eat liver and I limit spinach and the like because of the oxalates (exacerbates pain from arthritis). As with food sources, you will want to take your Vitamin C or eat a good C source at the same time as you take your iron. :) I am no expert though, so I would do some research on natural treatments for your polyneuropathy, there may be additional supplements recommended?

Terry, that must be what I also read awhile back! THAT's what I have been wracking my brain to remember - goat's milk kefir and why to use it! I mean, I bought and tried some when in BC awhile back, but even then i couldn't think of why I had made a mental note to look for it there. Sure, it's a good source of calcium, but I'll bet it was something to do with goat's milk especially as kefir being a high K2 source that was behind that! Lol, I gotta start writing some of this stuff down ...

---------- Post added at 20:23 ---------- Previous post was at 19:50 ----------

p.s.
Talked to my doctor about a "K test" today, and firstly, he listened to why I wanted it, then he told me I "read, waaay too much!" Lol! However, he agreed to send me for a "clotting factors panel". Says this is what is done: if there are no clotting deficiencies, then there is no Vitamin K deficiency. Says he has never had a healthy patient who had a Vitamin K deficiency. So, I do feel better, but will still take the 1 mg/per 5-10,000 units of D. :D

---------- Post added at 21:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:23 ----------

Sial72,

Dr Andrew Weil is a longtime naturopathic physician in the US. Here is what he has to say:

"If you have no underlying disease, you can try one or all of the following strategies:

Take one B-100 B-complex vitamin daily. The B vitamins are necessary for normal nerve function, and supplementing is a good preventive measure. Do not take more than 200 mg of B-6, as higher daily doses can actually cause symptoms of neuropathy.
Take 100 mg of alpha-lipoic acid daily. This antioxidant protects microcirculation to the nerves. You can gradually increase the dose to 300 mg twice a day over the next month.
Acupuncture can help relieve the pain of peripheral neuropathy. Additionally, a practitioner of Chinese medicine can provide you with herbs that may speed recovery. You might also try reflexology for neuropathy of the legs, feet and toes. If a toxic exposure is the cause, time is your greatest ally - injured nerves will slowly recover, as long as the exposure has stopped."

:hugs:
Marie

MyNameIsTerry

15-09-15, 05:12

I think it was 100mcg that I read for K2. But I only did a quick search for a decent source after spotting someone on Amazon reviews talking about it. So, I suggest you check that as I started looking for 100mcg tablet forms.

There are online articles about goat's milk if you Google "vitamin K and goats milk" so it must be a natural source itself but if you also Google "vitamin K and kefir" it brings up articles too so I thought it might be a good fit for you. Remember as well that kefir grains eat the lactose so dairy is less of an issue for lactose intolerant people with this type of product and some online discussions are around from people that are trying drinking kefir before a meal to then eat dairy as the kefir prevents digestion by eating the lactose before you digest it. It's interesting stuff and very healthy...and over 2,000 years old.

I think my GP would look at me blankly if I asked him something like you do. he wouldn't know. The thing is though, it's either do your research and try things or go with the meds routes and ride the rollercoaster but even then you are not maximising your gains if your diet is poor. The funny thing is, we have a whole world of nutrionalists telling us to change how we eat and even our governments running awareness campaigns but GP's often have a poor attitude to it unless you have a physical problem that means you have to change your diet! :doh:

Lack of vitamin K is something I have heard a few times on the cardiotheracic ward in Holby City. BUT they are talking about dangerous deficiency and even though you may not be dificient, I can can see how a lower reading could be a signal to you because your higher doses of D3 could be causing that and it would make sense to make a small adjustment to counter it.

Great news on the serrapeptase then. I thought I could recall something because I remember arterial plaque being mentioned and a specialist in either Germany or France that actually treats his patients in hospital with it in certain cases.

Sial - magnesium is an essential mineral used on over 300 processes and it's also known as a "calming mineral" as it works on the CNS too. It is very safe. Just a thought though, what type of magnesium are you using? Some are not very well absorbed and whilst they say 400mg, it's only thr "elemental" magnesium that is delivered and the rest is fillers and additional elements to help delivery & absorption. From that, some won't be absorbed anyway so it will be even lower. There are more efficient forms of magnesium and with your condition I'm wondering whether the topical versions would be beneficial i.e. transdermal magnesium. The benefit of this is that it can be applied to areas that are deficient as well as them being absorbed through the skin is is far better than digestion so less if lost. I apply it to areas I'm having trouble with e.g. knees, hips, sciatica and it does show it is helping so perhaps this would help with specific areas where your nerves give you pain?

I don't know anything about your condition and the others vitamins are something Marie knows more about. The best vitamin C you can get is liposomal vitamin C. This is a turbo charged version and gets into the cells. It is a far superior form to the pills we buy. There are some companies making it. You can actually make your own and it's not much work but it's not true liposomal but more an enzyme but it is still superior to the standard vitamin C piils.

Things that work on GABA might be useful e.g. Taurine. That can be calming too and it is used throughout the body so I wonder whether it has any impact on the rest of the CNS? I would have to check up on that. GABA supplements have been shown to cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB) even though it was previously thought they weren't but this was because some studies have shown it where people have health issues so the question is whether they mean the GABA does cross the BBB due to a permeability problem. I'm not sure whether that would help you but GABA was known to also calm the rest of the CNS down and they put that down to how people felt calmer. So, if it doesn't cross the BBB, would calming down the rest of the nervous system help you out? Not sure on that so needs some more looking into.

SADnomore

15-09-15, 06:23

Oh, sorry for misreading: 100 mcg K2, well that should be much easier to find! After speaking with the doctor I am very optimistic that I don't have a Vitamin K issue, will go ahead with the blood test to be sure.

Getting testing from my doc is often tough, he first said "no" but hearing my explanation re: my lack of food sources, my high supplementation of D, he said he "understands how it all works", and proposed the clotting test to rule out deficiency. I was surprised! He is just as likely to scream at me and huff out the door. Yes, really.

When I get the expected good news re: my K, I will go ahead with a bit (just a little!) of the skin source D, and incrementally resume increasing my supplemental D. I would like to commence then with food sources of K (some of which contain calcium too), kefir if I can find it and other fermented foods if only for their awesome digestive help. Then I can make sure of the calcium I need from food and supplements (if needed), and track all of it for awhile until I am on a roll, balance-wise!

Panicface, thank you so much for starting this thread! You are SO right about Vitamin D! My doctor won't even send any of his patients for D tests anymore, as he says he has concluded that we ALL in Canada are deficient! Sad but true, however, forewarned is forearmed, right? Glad you have your calcium number too, and are on your way to relief! Good luck!
Marie :bighug1:

blue moon

15-09-15, 08:33

Marie :D

First pack your cozzy,hat and thongs,then jump on qantas(I prefer Etihad) get off at Brisbane,we call it Bris-Vegas...lol,then you walk around to Virgin gate 47 to Townsville.I will meet you at airport,with a big sign and big smile.See you soon.:D

pulisa

15-09-15, 08:53

Can I just ask why you are taking such high doses of D3? I just swig down a 1,000iu tablet and think I'm covering myself against all known evils:D I'm probably taking the wrong type of tablet but it has effectively raised my D levels.

sial72

15-09-15, 09:40

Thank you so much Marie and Terry!!
Terry I take Magnesium Bisglicinado (in Spanish, maybe bysglicinate?) plus I also use transdermal. I taje powdered vit C, I will look into liposomal vit C.
Marie I will look into the alpha-lipoic acid.
Thanks again! X

SADnomore

15-09-15, 23:57

Pulisa,

For covering off most all the things related to health that are dependent on it, you probably do have your bases covered with the 1,000 units of D you take now. :) But for example if you have the problems Panicface lists in his opening post here, then they may be the result of a severe Vitamin D deficiency as in his case. ... Sub-optimal Vitamin D is linked to depression, which I can believe is probably at least partly responsible for my SAD. I just started last year bumping it up for the winter, but since I have been reading more on its role in calcium absorption (K, too), I am keen on balancing it to keep that calcium going into my bones! My mother had osteoporosis, which makes me a bit more at risk for it, but my last bone scan was normal and I am happy about that!

:bighug1:
Marie

MyNameIsTerry

16-09-15, 08:16

I've also seen an ongoing vitamin D study quoting 10,000IU per day to get people to the 40ng/ml level and this is still considered deficient. But there are some acknowleging <10,000UI per day to get into therange of 40-60ng/ml (50-70ng/ml being optimal):

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/02/17/vitamin-d-supplements.aspx
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/10/10/vitamin-d-experts-reveal-the-truth.aspx

I did see some reference to how upping your count requires a bit of welly in terms of supplementation so that you shift it with a load more and then settle. I can't seem to find the reference now though. Marie, any ideas on this?

It does seem to be aboutreduction of risk factors and how old RDA's are a long way out of date.

My mum has osteoporosis and so did her mum.

---------- Post added at 08:16 ---------- Previous post was at 07:27 ----------

Thank you so much Marie and Terry!!
Terry I take Magnesium Bisglicinado (in Spanish, maybe bysglicinate?) plus I also use transdermal. I taje powdered vit C, I will look into liposomal vit C.
Marie I will look into the alpha-lipoic acid.
Thanks again! X

What type of transdermal do you use? I have the oil. From what I gather from the Ancient Minerals website, the oil is supposed to be best for levels of magnesium over things like the bath salt/flakes but not so sure on the creams. I wouldn't mind trying the creams though as the oil can make your clothes a little sticky unless you planon sitting in the buff for the 20 minutes of absorption! :blush:

Does the oil cause you problems because of it stinging?

Yeah, it is bysglicinate.

sial72

16-09-15, 08:34

I use the oil and yes, sit in the buff for a while lol
I made my own oil from the flakes because for some strange reason they don't sell mag oil in Spain.

MyNameIsTerry

16-09-15, 08:50

I'm having a look into making my own oil as it looks a much cheaper way and it would be good to have the odd bath with the flakes anyway. Marie posted a link on her SAMe thread so I need to have a read as Ancient Minerals were blogging about this and how the increase in certain contents if their flakes could be bad for people butt might just be their "mix" and I don't use their oil (far too expensive!).

I've just ordered some ionic magnesium. You might want to have a look at that too. I had to buy it from the US though! Far cheaper than the UK for the exact same product. Luckily the price reduction means it's under the VAT & Duty starting levels. :yesyes:

pulisa

16-09-15, 09:15

Thanks for the explanation re what one should aim for with vitamin D levels. I'm sure I'm at risk of osteoporosis but haven't broken anything yet-touch wood. I've always tried to keep my calcium levels up without furring up my kidneys but, like everything, it's a balancing act!

SADnomore

16-09-15, 21:23

Exactly, Pulisa! It's a balancing act. I know my doc thinks I go too in-depth about this, but you know what, I don't agree with their practice of not dealing with risk factors before the disease state is clear. :mad: The naturopathic physician I used to see took an extensive history from her patients, including parent's health and all. Among other things, this would reveal possible risk factors for disease, and then she could do in-depth testing for this. Firstly she started with a wide panel for bloodwork for all her patients, and went from there, which is a good strategy we just can't get from MDs here. Things come up that might not even show otherwise for years. She showed me the scale of "normal" for my thyroid results, for example, and how it was clear that my number was low on the "normal" range for this test. She then started me on a supplement that included porcine thyroid and re-tested in my next round of bloodwork. Voila, the number had come back up to mid-range of normal. And stayed that way! Disease prevention by managing risk factors and testing and treating (naturally). What a concept!

Unfortunately, no one gets such personalized medical care unless they pay for it. No way can I afford her any more! So I have accepted that my GP will, like most, only step in to test and treat once symptoms of disease have shown themselves. Prevention is up to me. I ask about any supplements I take that have any real risks attached to them, and listen to what he advises. Moreover, no matter how much I read, I know I will fail to grasp the significance of certain self-administration in terms of overall health, so, I keep things conservative. Supplements are a huge industry and they will have us believe we need huge numbers of them to stay healthy, but, as I say, we need to eat, anyway, so why not just eat to meet our needs, firstly? Then we can take into account the realistic failings of present day foods. For example, green grass feeding used to mean the goodness of the plants, from sun and soil, would go into meat, milk, and the butter and cheese made from them. Factory production relies instead on grains (chiefly corn which lacks most nutrients), and the animals no longer contribute what they did once, and high-heat processing pummels the rest. Soils are depleted of minerals, and these along with all the vitamins that we don't produce in our own bodies have got to be found somewhere, or our health will suffer.

This article is cheerfully optimistic about food sources, but hey, nothing wrong with that! It's a great place to start, particularly if you have access to farm-fresh produce and traditional dairy. (Methinks the monolithic industrial farms have likely not taken hold in the UK, so you lot may not need to worry about the "failings" bit so much.) :)
http://www.goodnet.org/articles/11-essential-vitamins-minerals-your-body-needs

One rule of thumb often discussed is that as we age, our bodies become less able to absorb what we need from the food we eat and other sources. Both men and women are affected, but for women this problem is even more pronounced.

"Older adults (50+), menopausal, and postmenopausal women: These individuals should consume vitamin B12, calcium, and a vitamin D supplement. Vitamin B12, calcium, and vitamin D, work together to maintain healthy bones and reduce the risk for fractures.

Vitamin B12 is absorbed less readily from foods as one ages. These individuals should receive vitamin B12 from fortified foods such as breakfast cereals, or through a dietary supplement.
Calcium may not be absorbed as well in older adults and this population may experience bone loss. A combination of calcium intake from both food sources and supplemental form is important.
Vitamin D is not produced as efficiently in older adults upon exposure to sunlight. Additionally, the ability of the kidney to convert vitamin D to a form that the body can use is also dampened with age." (Colorado State University)

Note that they don't mention Vitamin K. It is only now starting to become known just how it works in acting as a traffic director, shunting calcium away from joints and arteries, (and likely kidneys from our blood as well). The wide-scale supplementation of calcium recommended by doctors to older women may actually have caused the rise in heart disease in this population. Unbalanced by adequate vitamin K, it can and does end up in our arteries, new research has found.

Hence the need for a balanced, holistic approach to nutrition and supplements. THIS is why I am working so hard to balance out vitamins k and d and calcium. As I slowly raise vitamin D to offset lack of sun for the winter, I appreciate that it will boost calcium stores at the same time. I face the risk factors for osteoporosis but I am not willing to trade this off for heart disease. So, I am slow to supplement calcium as well, taking it firstly from dairy. That critical vitamin K is a challenge to introduce, partly because I get arthritis flares from greens. But since I don't currently have either osteoporosis or heart disease I have decided to be conservative with supplementation of K2, to start. As I increase vitamin D over the winter, I will increase my K2 as well. (K2, specifically the MK-4 type, provides direction of calcium into bones and teeth, but MK-7 does seem to help with arteries). A balanced supplement in a reasonable dose is what I am after.

I like the recommendation that Terry found for us; 100 mcg per 5-10,000 units of vitamin D we supplement with. Here is a 500 mcg K2 MK4 supplement I will probably take in mid-winter, along with 20,000 units of D. This should create an ideal balance for my dietary calcium plus supplemental calcium I will be taking by then.
https://m.vitacost.com/products/superior-source-vitamin-k2

Terry, as you noted, the advisories for vitamin D vary widely, but personally, I honestly believe ALL of us in the northern parts of the world need to supplement with D, and in the winter, especially if we suffer from depression, by 10,000 units at least. But only IF this is balanced by K2 for the calcium deposits to bones and teeth. :D Lol!

Once again, here is that recipe from wellnessmama for homemade magnesium oil. I looked into those "manufacturer's links" she inserted. Again, call me a cynic, but the arguments of their commenters make sense; if the flakes are non-toxic in a bath, then they should be just fine as a topical oil. Read them if you like! I have concluded that they argue about making your own because they want you to continue buying their magnesium sprays and gels. It's easy enough to find out if the homemade works as well!
http://wellnessmama.com/5804/make-your-own-magnesium-oil/
At the moment, I still have most of my bottle of magnesium gel to use up. I mix it lately with less of the distilled water than it says on the label, and it dries much faster that way. I'd get the chills sitting around long in the buff around here, ha ha! :roflmao:
Marie

pulisa

16-09-15, 21:50

I know that here in the UK the GPs all push for vitamin D and calcium supplements for the elderly and housebound as a matter of course. I wonder how long it will take for the K2 "message" to hit home? Marie, you are way ahead of most of us on here and are probably the most Nutritionally Correct person on NMP! I bet my GP wouldn't have a clue what I was on about if I mentioned K2 supplementation...

I need to book in for an appointment with you, I think! I think I'm covered for Vit B12 as I'm a marmite addict!:D

SADnomore

16-09-15, 23:03

Lol!! Well, I likely have to go to the big superstore in town, among the international aisles to find your marmite; (I wonder if it helps with iron as well?)

Indeed, I am afraid I have become OCD about the whole nutrition thing, mostly because I'm vegetarian, and it turns out we really do need to watch that we get enough of the things that are common in a diet that includes meat. Despite what all the vegan/vegetarian support pages have to say, the fact is that plants do not deliver the same kind of quantity or quality of important nutrients. And this includes protein, we only need to compare the nutritional listings to see it. So I still eat fish, shellfish and (when I can manage it), dairy. Eggs are nutritional powerhouses too!

I became aware that I needed to learn more when I tested low on iron a number of years after giving up meat. (I may have to look at the tablets again.) It came right with supplementation, but it got me started on reading about all the critical things our bodies can't produce. If I'm not eating something, then I look at the range of supplements I can find. From there, I have beaten to death every word about every single one of them, it seems, ha ha! But then, how else would I have found out about these imbalances? Really important to try to avoid those ...

I really have to say that just as we keep hearing, if we are going to consider supplements, we should optimize our dietary intake first. And enjoy little foodstuffs like your marmite, no doubt! So much of what we eat as whole foods has proper balance, and we may just need to remember things like having a vitamin C food with iron (like fresh orange juice!) and small amounts of fats throughout the day for vitamins absorption. Mangia, mangia! :)
Marie xx

---------- Post added at 16:03 ---------- Previous post was at 15:35 ----------

p.s., the Mercola links are probably the clearest I have seen for vitamin D requirements, and I can hardly believe it, but ... clearest too on the need to co-supplement with K2!

MyNameIsTerry

17-09-15, 06:45

I will try and find that site about the 100mcg. It was some form of clinic doing high dose therapies but I don't know if it was a medical or naturopath one.

I agree with you on it all, Marie. I know it can seen like a lot of work and obsessive, but once it's done, we all benefit anyway. So, it's something we can maybe all piece together through places like this.

You want to look up liposomal vitamin C. Some docs are saying it rivals IV infusions. Near my house we have a main road and rosehips have spread all along it since it was built 18 years ago. Blackberries too. They don't spray them and the birds seem to leave them alone for some reason. Rosehips are supposed to be good for vitamin C, you just have to scoop out the hairs otherwise they irritate digestion.

On the subject of complete proteins, did you know that there are now studies of vegan proteins that have demonstrated a match to whey? Brown rice is the closest but it lack in one amino so they mix it with pea which is the highest in that amino so that you end up with a complete protein. I know you use pumpkin seed but thats less common from what I've seen. Hopefully that will gain in popularity though since they are a good source. I have toyed with just buying them and grinding them, which I used to do at first with my Nutribullet mixer.

On the K2, did you notice the problem with saturation? MK4 has a very short life in the body but MK7 is far longer. So, that seems a bit of a problem unless you plan on splitting it all out? Was there something about wastage too?

It's definately best to get everything from a food source if we can so we get all the enzymes & fibres too. It can be tricky though.

Sounds like a good argument to be knocking back the Serrapeptase too to eliminate the excess calcium deposits.

I will have a look at the link for making the oil (thanks again), just not had chance yet. Ancient Minerals were just saying how all ingredients in their flakes are much more concentrated because of the dilution of the bath so in an oil that could be a problem. They didn't say no, just advised against it so it sounds a bit ropey about whether those higher levels of other added ingredients (that are removed as they create the oil in a later process) are an issue or not. It certainly seems a lot cheaper doing it this way though.

sial72

17-09-15, 07:22

Since I lost all my muscle mass due to illness my acupuncturist put me on hemp protein and it seems to be working.
Terry, I made my oil, very very easy to make and I find it effective although I can't compare to ready made oils because I have never tried one. I have only found it to sting a bit once, but I have been supplementing magnesium orally faithfully for about 5 months and I don't know if it is that but I am sleeping much better

MyNameIsTerry

17-09-15, 07:45

Thanks, Sial. If it stings, it's obviously potent enough to deliver magnesium. I guess I will have to try it and see how it fairs against my current oil. It's an easy test for me because my knees ache and I can feel the change very quickly after applying it.

I've found it can sting, then stop, then sting again in the same area another day. So, I reckon I need something more regular on top of this to get my levels up as I've heard it can take a while. So, I've ordered the Angstromm stuff (ionic) to add a half dose (it's expensive).

I once applied it over a scratch I had done in my sleep. I didn't think with being in the routine. Yikes it did sting a fair bit for an our with it being a salt!

I haven't noticed any benefit other than to acheing joints. So, I'm probably not getting enough.

panicface

17-09-15, 20:06

wow, this became a great thread on a bunch of vitamins.

i've been at the sun thing everyday for a week now. basically set a timer for 25 min midday (uv B rays) and flip over after 12 min. i live in southern hemisphere and not too bad - as lay on pool float. however it's the first time i've been in the sun for over 8yrs and hard to get used to:

- the sun is HOT
- the sun is BRIGHT and have to cover my face with a black towel to block out some of the brightness (migraines)
- i dislike the sun on all levels (vampire)
- however (sigh) will begrudgingly admit it has it's uses....

they say it takes at least 2 months to regulate / increase your D however after a week i think i feel:
- healthier, younger, less like i'm dying (no sense of doom over my head)
- muscle in shoulder from rotor cuff injury honestly feels 50% better
- more energy for sure
- less aches and pains when getting in and out of tub, bending over
- more inclination to do house chores and fixing thing
- random palpitations down by 70%
- no change in lackluster sex drive

on the downside i had horrible nightmares for the first 3 days (never have) and now just have VERY vivid dreams everynight.

hasn't done much for my tiredness, but am coming to terms with the fact this may be mental (depression). overall the D has been a success and will stick with it another week and then get my bloodwork done. (and report it)

HOPING to see that my D goes up a few points and my Calcium comes down. If my Calcium is also up I guess that means i have hyperparathyroidism - in which case i will stop the sunlight and have to get the operation done to remove the tumor on thyroid gland.

i've read if you have hyperparathyroidism you can't supplement D because it will make your symptoms worse (increased calcium) that is definitely NOT happening with me - so i have hope i don't have this issue.

never read about K - will look into this. i do have high calcium so am now worried about arterial deposits. i have really low blood pressure 107 / 68 and always have - dunno.

this is my regiment, would be greatful for feedback:

- 400mg magnesium citrate (migraine prevention)
- 200mg B2 (migraine)
- Krill oil
- Garlic tablets (heart)
- Baby aspirin
- 1000mg vitamin c
- 2000mg milk thistle (drinker)
- 15mg zinc
- 5000 mcg biotin
- Basis capsul (nicotinamide riboside & pterostilbene)
- 250mg resveratrol
- half tablet of multi-vitamin (GNC mega men)

my dentist had a hard time stopping some minor bleeding. i'm assuming due to garlic, aspirin - now after reading this thread maybe low K?

do you think any of the above would cause my calcium to go higher?

thanks.

SADnomore

18-09-15, 01:31

Panicface, from what I know about what you are taking, it looks good to me! Magnesium is SO important for so much, so, thumbs up on that ... and you may even want to try the "magnesium oil" we all keep talking about to boost it a bit more! If you want to try it first without making your own, you will want to read the labels to see which type offers the most bang for your buck. The ready-made-spray I found here is nearly negligable in magnesium content, a 10-spray (1ml) dose provides just a fraction of the 60 mg of magnesium that is in 1ml of the gel (different brand). One teaspoon is 5 ml, so I mix a heaping teaspoon with roughly 3/4 teaspoon distilled water to make a watery oil of approximately 360 mg magnesium. I have been using this amount on my feet where they're stiff, my bad shoulder, my back and hips, elbow and finger joints, and do feel a bit of relief afterwards. Because it is transdermal, you don't get the diarrhea side effect of increasing most oral forms of magnesium. So we can go up to 600-800 mg, which is being advised in some places.

I wish I could take baby aspirin, good for you! I have had ulcers so my doc put the kibosh on aspirin in any dose, unfortunately.

Milk thistle: Okay, I get your strategy. Milk thistle helps to detoxify the liver. :winks: I am assuming that you are a social drinker, because of course you just know that the physical and mental tolls to heavy drinking can't be offset by any kind of natural detox, right? Jk. Lol! :D If I drank, I would have one glass of red wine of an evening. For the resveratrol. Which I see you are taking, ching ching! Ha ha! ... Typically, if you drink, you may (I said may) have lowered B vitamins, so if you don't think you are getting enough from your multi-vitamin, then you would do well to add a B complex to your regimen. I have problems with OTC B vitamins, everything from bad stomach ache to anxiety soon after taking. I found a good tonic made from fermented yeast, which causes me no problems at all.

In a nutshell, obviously I'm no doctor (not that they know much about supplements), but nothing I see would seem to cause your calcium to go higher ... I agree, the bleeding you had at the dentist is probably an indication that your K could use a boost!
Last blab I posted a link for the 5 mg MK4, and I still think I might work up to that as I go to my winter dose of 20,000 units of vitamin D. Meanwhile, a few months on I am liking the idea of this one!
http://www.lifeextension.com/vitamins-supplements/item01724/super-k-with-advanced-k2-complex#

You're right, Terry, yes the MK-4 form is short acting, necessitating split dosing, but I read that this is not a bad thing. It is more concentrated, just shorter-acting/works better, and so the two forms complement each other nicely.

I have no idea really how I will make out with this clotting-factors test, but if I score okay then I will still go ahead with the MK-4 of K2, according to the amount of vitamin D I take at any one time. I found out that we are allowed only one bone density test every 5 years here (!), so between that and likely no more K testing unless warranted I will go ahead with it anyway. The case for K2 is too strong to ignore, I feel.

So, me and my big mouth about not "looking for reasons" to take more supplements; here I am now supplementing my iron, lol! In this latest round of research I have learned that as a vegetarian, my needs for iron are twice what they would be otherwise. Argh! Having oatmeal again and a fortified rice crispies I found (the vanilla flavour has more iron, go figure!), my mixed nuts have up to 15% RDA, and my new iron glycinate has 27 mg. Gonna bump the B12 too, hey, maybe the dark rings under my eyes will lift? K cream is supposed to help with that, too ... Lol!

Oi, Panicface, we're stopping off at your place on the way down under! Everyone add a floatie for the pool to the suitcase! :shades:

SADnomore

18-09-15, 06:13

ps to Panicface:
Just now thinking about your zinc supplement, and low sex drive ... A bit of research reveals an upper limit (safe) of a little more than twice what you're taking (15 mg). Wonder what would happen if you doubled up for a bit to see?
"Usual Adult Dose for Dietary Supplement

Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA)-expressed as elemental zinc:
19 years and older:
Male: 11 mg (Upper intake limit: 34 mg)
Female: 9 mg (Upper intake limit: 34 mg)
Pregnancy: 11 mg (Upper intake limit: 40 mg)
Lactation: 12 mg (Upper intake limit: 40 mg)"
http://www.drugs.com/dosage/zinc-sulfate.html

According to Mayo Clinic, the upper intake limit is 40 mg elemental zinc. There are some cautions as well, so you may want to be under your doctor's care, just sayin'...

pps ... At the end of that loooooong post on the mayo site, there is a huge list of herbs and supplements which 'may interact' with zinc, and resveratrol is one in the list. You may want to investigate that and any conditions you have ... And, welcome! welcome to my nightmare! :wacko:

MyNameIsTerry

18-09-15, 10:56

So, if thats "elemental" zinc, does that mean that supplements will have fillers like we have with magnesium so that the dose is lower than the mg often shown?

Panicface, Marie is the NMP vitamin queen :D the only thing I would say would be to look at other firms of magensium, like Marie mentioned, because citrate is one of the forms more likely to cause GI issues. Also, are you aware that even though a bottle might say 400mg, it's the "elemental" magnesium in it which counts as it's the maximum? Places like Wiki list how this works as there is a ratio involved. Also, Marie mentioned transdermal and this might be useful for your migraines too because it can be applied anywhere on the body and I've seen reviews including people saying it has helped their migraines. For your worries about calcium deposits, Marie mentioned earlier how Serrapeptase breaks them down. It also works on scar tissue, inflammation and reduces mucus. You can only get that from supplements otherwise you have to eat silkworms! :D

SADnomore

18-09-15, 18:02

Lol! Yes, it sounds completely far-fetched, I'm sure, but the serrapeptase really does work for us much as it works for the silkworm, by "digesting" (literally) non-living tissue. This includes inflammatory fluids and such, and this is where they feel it works against some forms of pain. And even where we can't feel it, it is working to clean up inflammation throughout our systems. Including our arteries, which is great! I did a fair bit of research before deciding to plonk down the money. I have accepted that, like the magnesium, it needs a good big boost at first to get to work on the inflammation we can't feel, before there is enough of it resolved for it to get around to the inflammation we do feel. I've done that, and it does act on my shoulder pain and stuff, but I haven't done as well when I have decreased the dose substantially, yet. Still, I have more-or-less halved it, and am open to increasing as needed. I have lots of the 60,000 unit capsules, and at the moment am taking two, three times a day on an empty stomach most days. When I do that, I do notice more relief. Sometimes when I am out it is hard to fit in that middle dose, but I shall persevere!

Terry knows lots about the elemental vs the whole capsules dosing. Too true, this is the important bit. A lot of supplements have way too little to be worth buying. Here in Canada, they must list the actual amount of elemental you're getting, and where it is derived from. Sometimes the effective supplements cost more, this is often a reason to check more closely the labels of the cheaper types.

I figure that by narrowing things down to just what is really needed in supplements, the things you are truly unlikely to get adequate amounts of from foods, then I can afford to spend the extra for the good kind. :D Tell yourself you're worth it!

SADnomore

19-09-15, 06:59

Update: I talked to my old naturopathic physician today, at one of the workshops she offers. She absolutely agrees about Vitamin K, says she takes it herself, asked if I wanted to have her order some for me too! I asked if it had MK4 as well as MK7 and she said yes, so I said, yes, please! I will see what it's all about when it arrives, but I imagine it will be better than the smidgen-dose tablets we have locally, and I may not have to worry about online, at least not for now.

Sorry, I mispoke about why we want MK 4 in addition to the other forms, it is because of it's increased absorption. Not "better" per se, but better absorbed. So, while it does leave the body quicker, it does a lot of good while it's with us!

Just on my way to bed now as I have yoga in the morning, but I can take a look at that cheese again, Terry, tomorrow. I lost my head at the meeting tonight and helped myself to some cheese :ohmy: I had to take a lactose enzyme again after the fact, and am lucky that it has worked enough for me to go to bed and (hopefully) sleep! :weep: Owie!

SADnomore

20-09-15, 04:19

Snowden Cheese Company Beechwood Smoked Cheddar Cheese ... I will defo be taking the lactose enzyme [I]before[I] trying it, lol!

Also, I guess I had forgotten that oysters are an amazing source of zinc! I love the tinned, smoked kind, and don't mind having a tin a couple of times a week. Which is more than enough given the content!

Oh, yeah! And just a heads-up for anyone on antidepressants, milk thistle (and St John's Wort, for two), are contraindicated. Good luck all!

MyNameIsTerry

20-09-15, 05:48

I've bought some milk thistle as I've heard it's good for liver health. I've been wondering what the impact is of my current SNRI on my liver, and I know it has links to liver disease in heavy drinkers, because my fatigue just seems too unnatural to me. I'm hoping this might help because maybe my adrenaline surges may be causing some issues as they tend to get followed with periods of fatigue.

SADnomore

20-09-15, 06:14

You can research your SNRI with milk thistle, Terry, I just have seen mine contraindicated with it. It is said to actually interfere with the dose, making it stronger, in one source I researched. As I say, even just continuing with the L-tryptophan as I increase my ven made me nervous, which is why I ran it by him. He would freak out if he knew I had gone ahead and just taken it without checking with him, and he knows I know this, so he assumed that I hadn't and wrote me a prescription, lol! By the way, the dose is a whopping 500 mg, compared to the 50 mg (glucose fermentation) I have from the health food store. I will need to take it with corn syrup, which I don't have in the house, will have to pick some up.

Have you researched your SNRI about it's effects on the liver? Some of the major side effects listed on the leaflet are there only because they have occurred in patients who are taking the drug. Which is not the same thing as being a causal agent of them. ... I would think that adrenaline surges would definitely set you up for fatigue later! Wonder if some sort of hormone support (hopefully natural) could help? What, if anything, did you think of propanolol if you have tried it?

MyNameIsTerry

20-09-15, 07:05

Yeah, I always check them on Drugs.com and have a look on WebMD for the supplement too. Mine is ok with milk thistle.

I haven't really had much of a look about my meds affect on the liver. I know it has a major marker against it with heavy alcohol intake, not moderate or light intake, which is because it did cause liver disease in some and the manufacturer ended up on the end of various law suits over it and had to change the PIL. I have never drank on this one, not because of that but because I never felt I recovered enough to take such a chance, so I will be ok there but with it being a liver absorbed one it made me wonder whether part of my fatigue could be because of not clearing out toxins quick enough.

I know adrenaline from just anxiety is going to bring on fatigue but in the last couple of years it has gotten worse. I also found it occurs more when the nights draw in. So, I suspect my unnatural sleeping pattern has been taking it's toll with my serotonin & melatonin all over the place.

Thats interesting about milk thistle & Ven. Milk thistle seems to improve liver function in clearing toxins but it must also work in general to impact on that. Isn't it strange though that mine is ok with it?

5-HTP supplements can cause the jitters so if you get any of that it might be the high dose. It will probably be manageable anyway with you being on a stable dose of Ven. I'm not sure if this happens with tryptophan but doesn't it convert into 5-HTP?

panicface

20-09-15, 09:01

pulisa

20-09-15, 09:02

This is probably a stupid question but does ginseng help with maintaining cortisol levels? Like you Terry I have issues with adrenal rushes and burnout and I wonder whether this may help?

MyNameIsTerry

20-09-15, 09:39

sorry, missed the bit about Milk Thistle - what is MT contraindicated to? Or what are the negative effects?

I have fatty liver and do drink a few nights a week socially. I take MT daily to help offset (some tiny bit) the effects as i heard MT helped the liver detox?

Are you saying MT is no good for Vit D levels? or for K?

Some common interactions are shown here:

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-138-milk+thistle.aspx?activeIngredientId=138&activeIngredientName=milk+thistle&source=1

But to check individually I use this checker:

http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

The only problem with the checker is that some supplements are not on their database. Milke thistle is though so you can certainly check that against meds.

---------- Post added at 09:39 ---------- Previous post was at 09:29 ----------

This is probably a stupid question but does ginseng help with maintaining cortisol levels? Like you Terry I have issues with adrenal rushes and burnout and I wonder whether this may help?

Thats an interesting one I've been meaning to look into, pulisa. I used to always take Siberian ginseng for years. The health shop owner told me that the "male" plant, the Korean form, (have they got danglies? :winks:) can give you headaches so he advised the Siberian. From what I remember it has some unique benefits anyway over the Korean.

I've been meaning to look at trying ginseng again. Since my anxiety is always worse the first half of the day, there will be a strong cortisol link since thats exactly how the pattern of cortisol works! The only thing that put me off was that ginseng can cause anxiety, aggitation, palps, etc at certain doses and with me having problems with trying supplements, I think I put it further down the list.

I guess it means doing it like exposure? Start smaller, and build up.

I would be very interested what Marie has to say on this.

SADnomore

20-09-15, 17:18

Hi, all!

To be honest, between the reports of this and that herbal not proving effective in studies and the general crocodile pond of contraindications for them that I have noted, I try to stay away from herbals when on meds. As I say, I am a bit conservative really with anything that may mess with my equilibrium ...

I have to say I am learning lots from all of you about what can cause anxiety as a symptom, and trying to manage it; for example, it was only since I've been on NMP that I realized the B complex I was taking made me feel anxious within a half hour of ingestion! I now just take a tonic made from fermented yeast, and also nutritional yeast even though the Bs are added to the latter. Meanwhile, I am preparing to order the tonic in tablet form, as there is alcohol in the tonic. Not like a tincture, but it does contain some.

And yes, Terry, now that you mention it, I think I was feeling a little anxious after a few weeks on the L-tryp. Of course, until I knew for sure it wasn't going to cause problems, that may have been just natural, lol! I think I will maybe try the bigger capsules for a shorter time, and perhaps just three days a week. My idea is just to raise the serotonin in my brain. And then what with the SNRI inhibiting the reuptake, my hope is to be able to keep the dose of that lower. See, conservative. Plus, there may be some truth to what I was told about how using the lowest required dose of my med can help prevent poop out, which I want to try to avoid at all costs.

From a new question on an old thread of Aprilmoon's, I just learned that she has experienced a flatness of emotions that I think mirrors what I felt on my highest dose of our ven last winter, which was 300 mg. It beat being in "the pit", for sure, but I too would like to be able to still feel some little bursts of uplifted mood, not just plodding along without, if possible.

As for anxiety, I am not a particularly anxious person normally, although I will respond to anxiety-provoking situations for me, such as arguments, emotionally unsafe situations, etc. It's the black dog that follows me around in winter... And Effexor has been really very helpful at keeping him at bay, I am so grateful for that!

The protocol my doctor does with his SAD patients on venlaxafine is to introduce a maintenance dose, which is then ramped up in winter according to relief needed. And then back down again come spring. Side effects were minimal for me doing this last winter, my first full winter on it (except for the mood flatness at the highest dose), and I had no trouble with titrating down either. Slowly, 37.5 mg at a time. :)

Panicface, I didn't mean to suggest that MT could interfere with Vitamin D or K. It was just me remembering that it could interfere with certain medications or conditions. I used to do cleanses that included it, quarterly, but now I leave it out to be on the safe side. I make salads of bitter greens and radishes and oil and lemon juice, and don't have animal protein for the duration. I drink big juices I make fresh with greens and veg like carrots, celery, cucumber and sometimes tomatoes and then whisk in a blender for a few seconds with a raw protein powder. I try to only have one juice containing fruit to two which are all vegetable. Basically the only cooked item I have is rice, but I think I could probably do fine without that if I had enough fresh vegetable soup made up to stave off hunger. I do find after 5 -7 days I get past my sugar cravings, but this last one left me craving bread, which I had to use big-time willpower to avoid, lol!

p.s. Terry, about the protein powders, this last cleanse I used the raw vegan protein powder, which I do find really easy to digest. I tried my pumpkin protein too, but felt my system toiling with it. Pea protein gives me gastric distress and binds me up. :blush: I tried it numerous times in mixes before finding this vegan powder which gets all it's proteins from spirulina and stuff.

MyNameIsTerry

21-09-15, 07:27

How about brown rice protein? You would have to check what amino is missing from the rice though but I would imagine pumpkin has the same issues as thats not on the agenda for the bodybuilding people. Maybe that could even add the amino needed brown rice? I can't remember which is was without checking but it could easily be in pumpkin.

There are some useful looking adaptagens out there and some good product reviews on Amazon including for anxiety so they may be worth some looking into. I reckon I would go with the powder though so thatI could start really small and gauge any impact to my anxiety first.

Just having a look at transdermal magnesium on Amazon and come across liposomal magnesium! I didn't know anyone was making it. Like other liposomal's, it's not cheap but it does bring up the question of whether you can make your own (albeit it will be an enzyme, not true liposomal from my understanding). Those are interesting as they make it into the blood stream much quicker but they are oral products. I'm wondering what the difference it between them and ionic though and then there is the skin absorption route ans how that compares.

SADnomore

21-09-15, 21:14

And now, there is yet another new form of magnesium! I have a ton of capsules right now (Magnesium glycinate), but will look for it when I begin to run out.
Magnesium L-threonate. Check it out if you like.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-magnesium-l-threonate-90-veg-caps?csi=LE182&csp=SWU700

As far as protein powders go, as I say, if I am already having protein that day from eggs or fish or what-have-you, I don't bother with them. On days that I am juicing though, and also on my "vegan days" (beans and rice, nuts and seeds, quinoa) I like my new raw vegan protein powder. Lots and lots of goodness in there, and it's super-easy to digest.
Note the spirulina, chlorella, and blue green algae!
https://well.ca/products/schinoussa-raw-vegan-paleo-protein_104430.html

SADnomore

22-09-15, 05:31

*bump*
After any responses to this last, I think I will try threading some of the topics out and linking this thread to them. Lol! ... And turn it back over to Panicface! Very worthy topic in its own right re Vitamin D deficiency manifestations. Tks again, buddy!
Marie

tanisha

17-11-15, 11:43

the best and most trusted remedy to increase back vitamin D is to soak in the early morning sun... along with it eat a bowl of curd, but not plain. take 1 tableppon of flax seeds and roast them followed by grinding it. add this powdered flax seeds to your bowl of curd. Guaranteed increase in Vitamin D in a month!

Justanutter

14-04-16, 08:51

Hi. Can anybody answer if they have experienced side affects with taking high dose Vitamin D? My level is very low apparently and Dr has put me on 20,000 twice a week and I'm terrified it's too much. Of course I read the bad side affects on Dr Google and as my anxiety is already through the roof I am too scared to take them. It I know I must. I have ordered K2 already as I read up about that and I am wondering if I need to take mag although my levels are okay for that. Help! I am not getting much better from my anti depressants and Dr said low level D could be causing it now. I already get heart palps and health anxiety around heart so terrified it might bring bad attacks on.

Plaidlaid

18-04-16, 15:56

Thank you for this thread! Loads of really useful info.
I do remember that being in sunlight and taking vitamin D and vitamin D rich foods helped, so I\m going to try some things that were suggested in the comments.

MyNameIsTerry

19-04-16, 05:52

Some interesting info about light boxes that shows some updates since I last looked at them:

http://www.naturalmedicinejournal.com/journal/2016-03/light-therapy-more-effective-prozac-patients-major-depression

Key Findings

At the end of the 8-week trial, mean changes in MADRS scores from baseline were significantly greater in those who received the full-spectrum light therapy compared to fluoxetine. Of the patients receiving the light therapy, 43.8% went into remission compared to 19.4% of the patients who were taking fluoxetine alone. There was a 58.6% remission rate in the patients who received both the light therapy and the fluoxetine.

It looks promising and all without nasty start up side effects.

KatiePink

19-04-16, 11:13

I think i may be deficient in vitamin D based on the symptoms and the fact that i have more or less been in my house for the last 3 months, bar the odd doctors appointment. Doctor hasn't mentioned anything could i bring it up and request it to be checked?

skittlebeanz

20-04-16, 14:17

I've also found that supplementing my diet with B1, B6 and Inositol is having a positive affect on my mood. I'm less 'foggy' and anxious when I keep up to date with these supplements than those periods when I forget to take them or eating badly