Help with specific associated panic

[AndyMichael22]

Hey guys,

Ok, so I will explain very briefly :)

Had a PD for about the last 14 years, went through lots of the usual trauma etc etc, then the last few years I've dealt with everything great, learnt my best way of coping, however apart from the odd freak out that I am very happy dealing with now, I am left with this symptom that I'm not sure how to describe best, as I never use forums or understand all the terminology!

This sounds nuts, so bare with me...In a nutshell, it started with a basic feeling on the back of my neck when driving which I thought 'what if this doesn't go away', then I'd get very conscious of my t-shirt, shirt etc touching my neck and I would get the usual surge of adrenaline and panic everytime. This escalated to being at home etc and also at times different parts of the body.

After about 9 months of this I learnt to deal with it by just ignoring it as best I could until it faded, then I would forget, and as I did so it would go. But then any time it popped back in my mind if I was having a weak brain day I'd go back to thinking and it would begin again, until it faded. A cycle of this every 6 months ish.

Now it is back again but I am sick of just ignoring until eventually I have a weak moment, it gets back in there and I can't get rid of it for weeks again. So is there anyone who has had a similar symptom and if so is it best to just keep pushing it away? Or is there a good tactic or certain way to think which will help my mind stop being so bothered by it?

It is on one hand more of an annoyance, compared to the traumas I went through, but on the other when it focuses, as now, it completely takes over my life and it annoys me that it is winning!

I think the basic panic is over 'what if it doesn't go away' and have usually dealt with it by a basic; it has and it will go again, then saying a firm 'no' to it everytime it pops in there, until it fades. Any better ways to deal with or cope would be amazing! :yesyes:

ps. I don't take meds.

[shelzmike]

This is not uncommon for anxiety folk like us. That is point 1 to remember. The good thing is that you realize this is not an actual problem; rather, it is a trigger for you.

In some ways, I think that it might help you do to exposure therapy as weird as that sounds. Instead of spending all your time trying to wait for it to go away, use the same graduated exposure therapy methods for other phobias to master dealing with it and accepting it. Accepting the feeling will allow it to go away more quickly and then potentially never return again, or if it does it would only be fleeting.

Mike

[MyNameIsTerry]

It sounds like an OCD cycle to me. Have you had any other anxiety issues? She mention a PD, was it OCPD or another in the anxiety cluster by any chance? Do you find the urge comes more at times when you are more anxious due to some other factor?

[JessicaAdamson]

You had well managed your anxiety issue but what happened then? I think this may be due to stress.

[AndyMichael22]

It sounds like an OCD cycle to me. Have you had any other anxiety issues? She mention a PD, was it OCPD or another in the anxiety cluster by any chance? Do you find the urge comes more at times when you are more anxious due to some other factor?

It's funny you mention this as it has occurred to me more than once it may be more an OCD thing rather than linked to panic, as it is mostly a massive irritant, although the stupid worry of it not going away seems to keep it there also at a constant rate sometimes and can wash over everything. So it seems a little bit of anxiety mixed in also.

I have no idea what you would class it as but over the years I have developed 'ocd' type behaviour, having to repetitively touch things many times, move things etc etc until i satisfy the urge, things like that. I'm getting more convinced when this blows up more I get this symptom coming back, which is a whole lot more controlling as it can be constant in my head.

Was diagnosed with a panic disorder I had for many years which I mostly have control over now. This was the basic range of anxiety and panic being there from opening my eyes until going to sleep and then manifesting into attacks, sometimes to the point of having the want to knock yourself out to just end the current spell and lots of other lovely dark stuff like that.

These were mostly what i would call inward attacks without the breathing difficulties and I would always have to seek refuge in a private space, bathroom, home etc for them to pass. I have always been of a very positive mindset though, mostly, and think this helped me through it.

I'm always aware they may come back but also now very confident I will also beat it and get back normal again if it does. Anyway, I digress! :) For the moment this annoying little symptom is the only thing left that seems to be able to have a grip and I have in my head most of the day and would love some more thoughts or advise on what I could try! :yesyes:

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 ----------



In some ways, I think that it might help you do to exposure therapy as weird as that sounds. Instead of spending all your time trying to wait for it to go away, use the same graduated exposure therapy methods for other phobias to master dealing with it and accepting it. Accepting the feeling will allow it to go away more quickly and then potentially never return again, or if it does it would only be fleeting.

Mike

Thanks Mike, sounds like something I could try. Most of the time in getting rid of the problem I do try to accept the feeling and the fact that it is just that, eventually with being less bothered it does help and it eventually fades away, along with then ignoring thoughts of it coming back. But maybe I am not using this tactic properly or in the best way.

Do you have any way that you think I could try to use this method better/properly? Or maybe a good link to something specific such as a method I can try out? :)

---------- Post added at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------


You had well managed your anxiety issue but what happened then? I think this may be due to stress.

Think stress can also be a factor here, as I have been more stressed recently. But think sometimes the main association is within a car, as thats where it started, so if I get the thought/memory of it when driving (I travel long distances a lot for work and seeing family)

Thats what annoys me that it will always come back as i will always remember, which is why this time I am trying to get some advise into my head that will help it stay away, so when I do remember I just dismiss it without the worry that it will manifest again for weeks. :doh:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, a positive mindset is very important. Those negative thinking patterns can be a pain to sort out.

Sorry, when you said PD I assumed Personality Disorder and didn't think or Panic Disorder! :doh:

Touching things to satisfy urges is one I have had. (I've had a fair few forms of OCD in the last few years, most I have stopped now). When you say moving things around, do you mean to line them up somehow or make them symmetrical, etc? If so, this is known in OCD too.

Given how it is becoming more & more, it sounds likely OCD is on the cards. They don't usually diagnose it until it's sufficiently affecting you since many elements of OCD can be experience across the range of anxiety disorder e.g. intrusive thoughts are common to any of us but thats because all people have intrusive thoughts but don't realise.

The exposure Mike mentioned is one of the standard treatments for OCD within CBT. It's known as Exposure & Response Prevention (ERP) therapy. It's really an element of CBT. As Mike mentioned, you sit the worst fear at the top of a hierarchy and then set a load of lesser steps from easiest upwards so you work through them. You keep repeating the current step too. If you find a step too hard to conquer, you can insert a "stepping stone" if the therapist doesn't think the current aimed step is achievable.

The whole idea is based on habituation and extinction. You stay in a situation until your anxiety decreases by 50%. Eventually as you move upwards beyond that step, previous ones should no longer provoke anxiety hence become extinct. The therapist should also look for a step after your worst, often something you normally wouldn't do even if you didn't have an anxiety disorder e.g. with contamination you may put your hands in the toilet.

I'll post some info in of a thread I've posted some stuff in for someone else but you will find tons about it if you Google it since it's the staandard treatment for OCD in the UK and is used all over the world.

EDIT: Here are some links for on here. The second one is a thread with a report about best practice that has some good examples in of how they use it as the report is aimed at therapists:

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=160784
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=159265

[AndyMichael22]

Sorry, when you said PD I assumed Personality Disorder and didn't think or Panic Disorder! :doh:

Touching things to satisfy urges is one I have had. (I've had a fair few forms of OCD in the last few years, most I have stopped now). When you say moving things around, do you mean to line them up somehow or make them symmetrical, etc? If so, this is known in OCD too.

The whole idea is based on habituation and extinction. You stay in a situation until your anxiety decreases by 50%. Eventually as you move upwards beyond that step, previous ones should no longer provoke anxiety hence become extinct. The therapist should also look for a step after your worst, often something you normally wouldn't do even if you didn't have an anxiety disorder e.g. with contamination you may put your hands in the toilet.

EDIT: Here are some links for on here. The second one is a thread with a report about best practice that has some good examples in of how they use it as the report is aimed at therapists:


Firstly thanks so much Terry for the reply and links, it really is a massive help and I will start to look into all of that this week.

Well I put PD for panic disorder but as I say I don't have a clue about most terminology so it probably was wrong! :shrug:

Yes, I line things up sometimes, but also it can get to a stage of anything and everything I touch and it has manifested into, at the worse times, having to touch or move literally everything I contact in a sequence of 5, it gets worse at some times of the day than others and has other forms.

Generally it does not bother me much anymore and ranges from an annoyance to extreme frustration, which I can deal with. But the past week I have been trying very hard to back up the train bit by bit as i've had enough. So far so good.

The main neck/back thing though, which is much more intrusive, is still there although signs of dying down again, I hope! As it is completely irrational it seems difficult to find a fix. As I explained in the first post it seems somewhere in-between ocd and some sort of irrational anxiety/fear. With, I think, the core fear being that of it not going away and at the moment is there from morning until night.

In very simplistic terms I got rid of the majority of my panic/anxiety attacks for many years from realising irrational fears were just that, so when they try to manifest now i can control them. But this is not even a thought really, just an association/reminder of panic. The surge of bad feeling is sent when I consciously feel my neck/back, then is also reversed when I am reminded of the thought of it. The cycle just kind of continues like this. This has also tried to manifest into other parts of the body when I overly feel something like under my arm, places like that, but I have always reigned that in as best I can.

I've had a first look through the info you sent and seem a bit lost on what fear i could expose myself to for exposure therapy, as my fear seems a bit unspecific. Would I concentrate on the feeling of my neck, or the thought of it not going/staying, I'm not sure.

Sorry if any of this is not very clear! As i never really talk about this stuff to anyone, ever (everyone thinks I'm completely normal :shades: ), it can be difficult to explain it all in a concise way as I'm not used to it. So all of this help is massively appreciated! :yesyes:

[MyNameIsTerry]

So, you have some Symmetrical Thinking going on in there, a known form of OCD. I've had some of this with the need to line various items up, move them and line them up again until it feels "just right". I've done it in number sequences, odd or evens, multiples, etc. The strange thing with mine was that it was not all items as I could happily live with quite a few being all over the place but not certain ones.

Frustration is one I know all too well. I've very often found that acting out a compulsion to end the obsession just ends with frustration that builds the more you do it. I think this is because you know you don't need to do it and you get frustrated with feeling like you can't control yourself. So, even if you reduce the anxiety by way of the compulsion you can end up annoyed and frustrated at the need to do it and yourself.

OCD is built on irrational fear. I used to do so many of mine because I felt I had to in order to ensure something was "just right". I would also do it ensure nothing bad happened to my family or nothing bad in an unknown way (maybe resulting in more anxiety & physical sensations) or to avert insomnia.

OCD is not just about compulsions or intrusive thoughts on top of all the obsession, it can also be about urges.

ERP is not just about exposing yourself to something external, it's all about exposing yourself to the feeling of your own fear. So, it doesn't need to be a hierarchy based on ever increasing difficult external factors to expose yourself to. For instance, if you had to check the locks 50 times you could structure a hierarchy that aims to reduce the number of checks. This will result in more anxiety because you are stopping yourself acting out the required compulsions as many times as your obsession is driving you too. Some can just stop altogether and wait out the fear until it subsides but it's not so simple for many of us. Another way is to use time in the hierarchy, for example you could extend the time between checks so you spend more time waiting it out or you could insert a delay time between the need to act the compulsion.

Does that make sense?

So, perhaps you could attempt to react less quickly in a structured way and extend this until you feel you could have a step where you don't do it all. This way you should become more able to resist it bit by bit until it feels like you can prevent your response altogether.