View Full Version : How to come off Antidepressants without relapsing
Hello Everybody
How lovely it is to find such a nice little group of nutters like me :D
I have had health anxiety and generalised anxiety for over 10 years now.
Been on and off anti D's but I really want to stop them now for good. Reason been, I have health anxiety for of course I don't like having all these drugs inside me. But more so I don't think they are doing that much for me anymore on a 20mg dose and I really do not want to be on 40mgs or higher as eventually I'll be on a mega high dose then what happens when they don't work anymore. I am tappering off my anti d very meticulously by removing 10 balls from my capsule every 2 weeks or longer sometimes when I feel a bit funny. I am currently 50 balls down out of an average of 200 balls and I am getting panic attacks in university so I am therefore missing a lot lately but I am catching up at home. I'm so fed up with it. These drugs are super strong and I seem to be overly sensitive to drugs.
Is there anything I can do or take to help this process or should I just give up and give in and look forward to a life on anti d's?
Why haven't doctors got some programme in place to help with this like!!??
So pissed off and FED UP
Weaning off meds is tricky at best. This is something to be discussed with your doctor especially in light of your current reaction.
Positive thoughts
Hey yogi bear. Welcome to NMP.
It sounds like there is a lot going on in your life right now. University, panic attacks, probably much more.
What are you on? I can only speak from my own experience. I'm on citalopram. You have to stay on it for at least 6 months once you have found your correct dose. You have to be on it for a really long time for it to stop working. I'm not totally clear if you're meant to go on to a 40 mg dose - where has that come from? Normally it's possible to raise a dose incrementally over time, and there is an absolute maximum dose to go on. Everyone is different, so for some people, 20mg will be fine, and others, 40mg is needed for the same effect. There's nothing wrong with you if you need a higher dose.
If lowering your dose is giving you panic attacks, can you work on coming to terms with being on meds? Being on meds can feel uncomfortable philosophically - but if it raises your quality of life, go with it! It's possible to change your beliefs to benefit yourself.
Doctors actually do have programmes in place to deal with this - why don't you book an appointment and talk it through honestly with them? It sounds like you're messing with your dose a bit more than is healthy. Doctors have seen lots of people on lots of doses, so they know what's normal and usual - trust their experience to help you.
Just because you're on meds now does not mean you always will be.
Thanks for that. To be honest I cannot see what doctors can do. As far as I can see they are totally useless when it comes to mental health. They only want to stuff meds down your throat and hope that shuts you up for a while, truth! Maybe I do need to resign to the possibility that I may be on anti d's forever.....living a fake life in a fake world!
MyNameIsTerry
03-11-15, 05:27
That can be the case with some GP's, mine is the same, but there are people on here who have better GP's who do understand mental health more and have experience of managing antidepressants. We should be able to rely on them but many of us really can't and find they give us outdated information about these meds.
However, there are online sources we can use like these experts:
http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/treatmentswellbeing/antidepressants/comingoffantidepressants.aspx
http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/drugs-and-treatments/medication-stopping-or-coming-off/planning-withdrawal/#.VjhDRNLhD4b
They know much more than our GP's afterall.
When you said you were counting beads it made me think of my med, Duloxetine, but the dosages for the bead versions are not the same as the mg's you mentioned.
There are guidelines in place for these disorders if you look at NICE but it can be a bit of lottery because our GP's don't seem to be aware of these things a lot of the time and they have no excuse as they are easily available online to any of us and they have been around for some years now.
In terms of relapse, thats a much harder question. It will rely on whether you have resolved all the areas of the anxiety and this can include underlying factors such as self confidence, self worth, self exteem, fulfillment, etc. I didn't have any therapy the first time as I couldn't access it without waiting 12 months and I wasn't planning being off work that long (they would have managed me out by then!) so I worked through it on my own. I went back into a pressurised environment with additional unresolved baggage and I coped really well until I came off meds. 6 months later I relapsed. So, you have to review all the factors involved to determine if you have the bases covered or a relapse is a possibility in my opinion.
Thanks Terry. It is duloxetine I'm on. Are you still on this drug?
MyNameIsTerry
06-11-15, 05:28
Yes, I';m still on it. I can't say it has ever done much for me, more the opposite with the ongoing side effects and it does make me tired too but it's the agitation that keeps coming back that is the worst. Some people on here say it has helped them though.
I was confused when you said 20mg since that's a generic version and it's just one big pill inside the capsule. I thought Pfizer only make the 30 & 60mg capsules which contain the balls?
Hi
The startup side effects, general side effects, no effectiveness, then withdrawal side effects from dugs that GPS put us on horrifies and frustrates me.
I know some people get relief from ADs, mabey the only ones I read about are the ones that DONT work.?
Yogi bear, you have said yourself, you have tried are and for you, they haven't helped. I do think however withdrawals should be supported with help from mental health teams. Even if only to discuss a withdrawal schedule and potential withdrawal symptoms and ways to deal with them!
Also, any issues you had before taking the are may not be resolved and should be addressed now too
Good luck x
Thanks guys.
Defo balls in my capsules so not sure? To be honest I think duloxetine has made me a bit depressed and it's usually only anxiety I struggle with. Do you find this relates at all to you Terry? I also get funny head pressure and brain fog so I just don't know. Saw the doc today and he wants me to try the drug mirtazapine. I'm not sure how I feel Abt this. Perhaps it will work better but I'm scared it sets me back. I've read some good reviews and it helps with sleep which I defo need help with at the mo. Very hard to decide and I'm left to research myself for the weekend as I just can't trust these doctors!
Thanks for that. To be honest I cannot see what doctors can do. As far as I can see they are totally useless when it comes to mental health. They only want to stuff meds down your throat and hope that shuts you up for a while, truth! Maybe I do need to resign to the possibility that I may be on anti d's forever.....living a fake life in a fake world!
In the Matrix perhaps??
Ever wondered if that could be true??
MyNameIsTerry
07-11-15, 04:34
Yes, it was mostly anxiety and obsessive thoughts that I had but I did have some low moods too. I have found Duloxetine has given me mood swings. I didn't realise this until I talked it through with some other members about a med in the same class, Venlafaxine, and their experiences. Prior to this I had even been looking into whether I could be bipolar but it has only happened since starting this med along with a load of other problems, namely agitation (which I never experienced before this med), adrenaline rushes (again, not before this med) and my underlying OCD traiits turned into fullblown OCD which owned my life completely for some time. I know of others who have had the OCD problem with it but the agitation is a known side effect. None of these have ever gone over the years but I stupidly trusted my GP when he said it was my anxiety!
The low moods were bad. I would be walking the streets (my daily walks) in tears somedays. I've resolved this now by taking high strength Omega 3 (EPA & DHA >1000mg). It went after about a month but it did increase my anxiety in my "blips", most likely because the low mood was bringing the anxiety back down as they always appeared after the adrenaline increases that my blips feature as. Lat Xmas I stopped taking Omega 3 as I was having a lazy period and what happened again? Can you guess? It took 3 weeks and my mood was destabilised. I started the Omega 3 again and within days I was better. So, in terms of moods, the Omega 3 has been far better than this med which is licenced for Major Depressive Disorder!
Have a chat with the guys on the Mirt board, it's a sub board of Meds. Members like hanshan and SmilingAlbert are on quite a bit so will likely help you out. They seme to know quite a bit about Mirt but there are others on here too.
---------- Post added at 04:34 ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 ----------
In the Matrix perhaps??
Ever wondered if that could be true??
If we are, Phill, I would welcome waking up in a tube of my own "fluids" to battle the robots...and if it involves a Trinity too then :yesyes::yahoo:
I too have wondered abt bipolar since I have been on this drug but I am convinced its the drug now. I get quite angry close to my time of the month too which I never experienced ever. Not just angry, real furios, blood boil anger to the extend that I have broken things! I also started taken fish oils and I did notice improvements in mood and aches and pains but unfortunately I haven't been able to buy them since about 6 weeks ago as can not afford them anymore and I don't want to take the cheap crap as not worth it. I also experience over excited, giddiness type symptoms quite often since been on this drug. Are you planning to stay on the drug?
---------- Post added at 19:24 ---------- Previous post was at 19:23 ----------
What is this mirt board Terry? You seem to know a lot about everything and I can't keep up. Is that a sub board on here?
MyNameIsTerry
08-11-15, 05:15
I see you've found the Mirt board. I noticed you mentioned Pregabalin too. Hanshan, SmilingAlbert & the regulars on there seem to have experience of both of them and I know I've seen hanshan talking about their combination so I reckon you will get some good answers. I've been here a while and use most of the boards on here so I've got a feel for who is where.
Anxiety is definately influenced by hormonal changes and I've seen many women on hear all saying how they experience intensified symptoms.
It's interesting you mention about the anger because I never had issues with this until I went on this med. Anger is found in anxiety disorders but mine isn't like that. Mine is anger but I also feel sparked up. I've not only felt anger but I've felt violent and needed to get away and this just isn't me at all, I'm not like that and neevr have been even with the worst of my anxiety. I have also had plenty of occasions where I have not felt angry but felt like I wanted to fight. I felt very confident and wanted to challenge people so I had to make sure I was away from other people. For me, this was like "roid rage" because there was no anxiety and no fear, I just felt totally sparked up for anything and this is surely increased adrenaline. I don't get it much but I've never had any of this before this drug.
I can also tell you that the year after my relapse was by far worse and the only thing I have found that influenced that is this med. My GP just wouldn't accept it and I trusted his experience...a mistake I won't make again. But it also latched onto my previous sleep issues and made me sleep later & later until I've reached the point where I live at night and sleep through the day. This makes it very hard for me to see my GP as he only works afternoons now as he is part time. But I don't plan on staying on this med at all and I wish I had never been put on it as it has robbed me of years. I spent the first couple of years sorting out my OCD...thats the OCD I never had before! The obsessional thinking this has brought with it has meant I couldn't change a single element of my day for a long time. It was veyr hard for me just to change my clothes, it got that bad!
Once I get back to my GP he will be getting told I will be coming off this but I don't know where I will go from there. I haven't seen him for 2 years now and he hasn't even noticed I've stopped booking the appointments for every 6-8 weeks. Basically, a shabby surgery. I walked away from the NHS at that point because he wouldn't refer me for further therapy and with the comment "you will work it out on your own", I thought it was pointless wasting my time going to appointments that didn't help me in the slightest and seemed to be more for him to tick a box on his computer. After my sleep slipped badly and I couldn't get back anyway. I ended up joining here and starting learning about what this med has caused.
So, it's a current long hard job to try to change my day around to get back to those regular visits and see where it goes from there. I have made a ton of improvements but all the OCD was unplanned. Every 7-10 days I have a pattern of 3-4 days of increased adrenaline causing a load of agitation where I will feel urges to bite myself or scratch at things, clench my fists, etc...thats all adrenaline. This pattern has been pretty steady for a couple of years but before that it was far far worse and the first year I was having much more in the way of solid bad periods.
Thanks god for Omega 3 though! So, I'm now experimenting with more natural stuff so see if it helps me to improve on my current stumbling blocks.
I used to buy the Tesco own brand Omega 3 liquid as it was very cheap. It was £3 for a 30 day bottle (based on 2 tea spoons per day) and they have a permanent 3 for 3 offer on. They have stopped producing the liquid form now and only make capsules. High strength capsules are garbage, the liquid forms are far superior in terms of dose vs. cost. For now I have just kept buying Seven Seas Original from there which is £4.60 per month and the 3 for 2 is on that too. So, it's a bit cheaper with that deal. I did do some Googling but it was all more expensive but I did notice that Asda made a very similiar product to the Tesco liquid, also for £3.
It's interesting that you have also had the mood swings and thought about bipolar. I have come across people who have struggled terribly with side effects of this med when starting but not anyone who has had ongoing problems until now.
This is all very enlightening and in a way, confirms to me that this drug has caused a lot more issues...
You should find yourself a new, BETTER doctor. He sounds like an absolute tool. telling you that you will work it out on your own?!! That is very strange. Just to show you how angry and reved up I get, just writing that line abt your doc made me want to march up to my surgery and tell them all how bad they are and shout like crazy at them (not a normal response)! You should see me close to my period, just crazy! I know for a fact it is the duloxetine as never had it before then and since I started to tapper off it a little I do feel a little calmer but still close to my period is a nightmare and I never experienced this before then. When Im this angry its funny as I know its not me, but I can't stop the rage, its horrible and unnatural! Unfortunately sleep is a nightmare too, even more so since I've tappered down a little so I need to sort something or I won't be able to get back to Uni and I don't intend on messing up my chance of a new start as a mature student! My plan is to get to the doctors this week sometime and I think now I may start pregabalin after doing my research. Its so hard to decide on the right drug especially when there is an element of heath anxiety going on and unfortunately I have not found a doctor I can fully trust and rely on. I do wonder sometimes where these docs went to med school! I hope to find a good GP practice one day as alot of the docs where I am are clueless. I spent half an hour last week in a waiting room while a locum (child) doctor made calls and went through books to see if I could take pregabalin whilst on duloxetine then he called me back in and told me that he couldn't get an answer so I would need to come back next week when they knew???!!! Sorry what! I was sent home with nothing other than thinking how bloody incompetent he was!
Anyway, I will try pregabalin and hopefully it will be great and I will tapper more off this duloxetine rubbish and hopefully it will help with the withdrawals! The reason I am choosing the pregabalin is because I get aches and pains similar to fibromyalgia really so think it may be wiser to go with that drug as can't risk migraines etc reappearing or I'd be in bigger trouble then.
I really hope you go see a doctor soon. Its easy to just give up on them and stick to feeling like crap. You can feel better and there are better docs out there, just need to find them :) x
It's difficult to take the plunge and make a clean break once you're on the meds treadmill. Having the confidence to see what your mood is like without the input of an AD is no mean feat particularly if you've been on various meds for yonks. It's very much a personal decision. I've done it and there are times when I wonder whether I've made the right decision because I'm always going to have my issues but I didn't really see any benefit from my meds and since I have a diagnosis of "agitated depression" I'm not sure whether SSRI/SNRIs are appropriate with their added adrenaline "bonus"?
Overall I've been about 6 months without ADs and I don't really notice any difference which is good, I suppose?
I thnk your right Pulisa,meds are a crutch and you start to believe you can't do without them.I have never felt so ill as when I was put on citalopram,thank god I had the balls to stand up to the doctors and say the way they were making me feel just wasn't right no matter what they told me
Then there is the added bonus they are so hard to get off with withdrawal thrown in the mix
The only way to get off them safely is very slowly and to listen to your body,support from your family and a good well informed doctor also help
I think if you're lucky enough to have a good, well-informed doctor then he or she will know that these are powerful drugs which shouldn't be prescribed/increased with abandon but instead should be used only when genuinely indicated and started with caution at lower doses to check for individual response.
A rule of thumb when attempting to taper an antidepressant is to reduce the dose by 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks.
So, for the sake of an example, let's say that you started at 100mg of drug X. You would proceed something like this.
Week 0 - 100mg
Week 4 - 90mg
Week 8 - 81mg
Week 12 - 72mg
etc.
You might need to go slower if you experience withdrawal effects. You could reduce every 6 weeks perhaps, or drop by 5% every 4 weeks.
There is a whole lot of information on The Surviving Antidepressants forum (http://survivingantidepressants.org/)
Fish oils and magnesium supplements that are recommended.
Thread very carefully though and good luck!
I think if you're lucky enough to have a good, well-informed doctor then he or she will know that these are powerful drugs which shouldn't be prescribed/increased with abandon but instead should be used only when genuinely indicated and started with caution at lower doses to check for individual response.
You're right Pulisa
They're far too quick to increase the dose even though it may not be needed.
As far as withdrawal goes I came off 10mg Lexapro cold turkey after 5 yrs with no bad effects.
I had a horrific experience when I finally came off seroxat Abt 3 years. I had many failed attempts when tapering by the doctors guidelines which was far too quick so I went it alone at an incredibly slow dose, close to a year! I lost 2 stone, wasn't overweight anyway but the thing that scared the living shit out of me was near the end of tapering. Every night repeatedly through the night, just after falling asleep I'd wake with an explosive tight headache at the dude if my headband extremely dizzy and vomit.id turn the light in and try calm down go back to sleep and it would repeat. It was absolutely sole destroying. An bad drug made by an evil manufacturing company! I came off Prozac Abt 2 years ago and it was a breeze with its longer half life but then I relapsed again. LIFE!
MyNameIsTerry
09-11-15, 06:43
You're right Pulisa
They're far too quick to increase the dose even though it may not be needed.
As far as withdrawal goes I came off 10mg Lexapro cold turkey after 5 yrs with no bad effects.
Very true Phill & pulisa. I can't believe some of the threads on here where GP's are telling people to increase to a "guideline" dose when they are already showing signs of recovery and I see Phill telling people not to fall for it.
Yogi's post above is an indicator of how the most basis drug knowledge can be lacking. That locum can't check whether you can take Pregabalin with Duloxetine? I just did it on Drugs.com in less than a minute.
http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=949-0,1937-0
nteractions between your selected drugs
Moderate
duloxetine pregabalin
Applies to: duloxetine, pregabalin
Using DULoxetine together with pregabalin may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.
It took me less than 10 minutes to find the complete list on the BNF website and thats with all the NICE paths. :doh:
https://www.evidence.nhs.uk/formulary/bnf/current/a1-interactions/list-of-drug-interactions/antidepressants
I think I would walk away from a GP displaying so little knowledge as to not knowing how to even check for an interaction! Thats one of the most basic elements and I would love to know how this locum even got through their initial placements in a hospital setting given they should be checking interactions constantly. Thats the NHS, I guess.
---------- Post added at 06:43 ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 ----------
This is all very enlightening and in a way, confirms to me that this drug has caused a lot more issues...
You should find yourself a new, BETTER doctor. He sounds like an absolute tool. telling you that you will work it out on your own?!! That is very strange. Just to show you how angry and reved up I get, just writing that line abt your doc made me want to march up to my surgery and tell them all how bad they are and shout like crazy at them (not a normal response)! You should see me close to my period, just crazy! I know for a fact it is the duloxetine as never had it before then and since I started to tapper off it a little I do feel a little calmer but still close to my period is a nightmare and I never experienced this before then. When Im this angry its funny as I know its not me, but I can't stop the rage, its horrible and unnatural! Unfortunately sleep is a nightmare too, even more so since I've tappered down a little so I need to sort something or I won't be able to get back to Uni and I don't intend on messing up my chance of a new start as a mature student! My plan is to get to the doctors this week sometime and I think now I may start pregabalin after doing my research. Its so hard to decide on the right drug especially when there is an element of heath anxiety going on and unfortunately I have not found a doctor I can fully trust and rely on. I do wonder sometimes where these docs went to med school! I hope to find a good GP practice one day as alot of the docs where I am are clueless. I spent half an hour last week in a waiting room while a locum (child) doctor made calls and went through books to see if I could take pregabalin whilst on duloxetine then he called me back in and told me that he couldn't get an answer so I would need to come back next week when they knew???!!! Sorry what! I was sent home with nothing other than thinking how bloody incompetent he was!
Anyway, I will try pregabalin and hopefully it will be great and I will tapper more off this duloxetine rubbish and hopefully it will help with the withdrawals! The reason I am choosing the pregabalin is because I get aches and pains similar to fibromyalgia really so think it may be wiser to go with that drug as can't risk migraines etc reappearing or I'd be in bigger trouble then.
I really hope you go see a doctor soon. Its easy to just give up on them and stick to feeling like crap. You can feel better and there are better docs out there, just need to find them :) x
I've also had issues with what I believe is slight mania, hence the bipolar worry. This is harder ti understand though because some of this can be seen in OCD as a bit of a hyper issue as I would be positive and obsessively working on things which could be seen as mania. Then there is the sleep pattern issues which were largely born out of wanting to stay up longer & longer.
I've had the fibro worry too. I have often felt a bit sedatated (you can get this on others too) but felt weak. This med is known to be a possible cause of liver issues so I've wondered whether it could be making my liver a bit overwhelmed since some of these symptoms match to the liver struggling. I've never had so many aches & pains and especially in the last 18 months. I've starting supplementing with various things to see if it helps with this because I have rarely been outside in the sunlight this year and it could be vitamin D too.
I wonder if you came off Duloxetine whether these aches & pains would go?
Pregabalin is a 3rd stage med but it is indicated in NICE guidelines that it should be used in GAD after trying various options. The trouble is, it's expensive and so you may find unscrupulous GP's coming up with some creative excuses for why we don't need it. I've seen this on the Preg board a few times.
If you are in Bucks, forget about it - you have no chance. Their trust have blacklisted it not only for anxiety patients but also for the real reason the med was created - epileptics. There is evidence it has been prescribed in over 200 CCG's in this country and yet Bucks have done this. It is clearly about saving money and hopefully at some point a savvy patient will take this to court because there are question marks over whether this could be classed as NHS descrimination. Public services are covered by the Act that covers descrimination. Whilst they may get away with it on the basis of no patient in their region gets it (although one annoyed patient even raised a Freedom of Information Request (FOIR) to prove they have prescribed it in their local hospital), I would question whether it is descrimination at a NHS level in not awarding equal services. The trouble is, we all know the NHS actively practices descrimination as proven by the local trusts who have denied llife saving drugs based on cost when others have allowed it. :doh:
The problem I have is that my GP surgery is one of the better ones around here. They do at least offer an early morning walk-in service and many don't around here. My GF has to wait 3 weeks, they won't do anything sooner and you have to go to A&E if you think it could be urgent. There are many around here like that so switching is very problematic. I will give him one chance to switch me off this the next time I can get there and if he won't agree, I will simply see another of the partners and maybe even raise a complaint. The trouble is, I've got to somehow fight to solve this problem with my sleep & routine which is very firmly in the way right now and not shifting easily...another problem caused by this med that I have been chipping away at for years now.
Thanks for caring.
Terry, could you see another doctor at the practice in the morning? I appreciate the difficulties of getting there but you need to have this drug and its impact on your future progress fully assessed in my opinion.
Aw Terry, I hope you get to docs soon. I had to drag myself out of the bed to go to docs this morning as another sleepless night.
All in all, it was a good experience I suppose. Got one oft the more competent doctors who actually asks some questions as well as prescribing! I told him I wanted duloxetine out of my system and I'm unsure weather to try pregabalin or mirtazapine. I did say I was steering towards pregabalin only because of the weight gain possibility of mirtazapine. But I left the surgery with mirtazapine lol I suppose we agreed that sleep is such a big issue and needs fixing before I can think Abt anxiety getting fixed. He gave me 7 tablets of 20 mg duloxetine (usually on 30) to take for week to see how I go with the drop then I'm meant to start the mirtazapine. I'm just going to start it tonight instead as I have to get into university tomorrow for something important so if I sleep well in that I should put down an ok day. Not sure how he thinks I'm going to cope after just a week of 20mg duloxetine then cold turkey! Not sure this mirtazapine will cover up the withdrawals?!
mirt blocks a shed loads of receptors so should help withdrawing from the Duloxetine
but if it was me i would ask for more and taper off it slowly
I think it's beneficial that so many can share their experiences with meds but please keep in mind that everyone is different. What worked for one person may not be ideal for another. As I stated in a previous post in this thread, weaning off medication is tricky at best and one should really be discussing this with a professional. Far too often I see posts where someone is doing this totally on their own and often the results are less than ideal.
Everyone is different as well concerning their experiences with the medical profession. Certainly that can create a bias as is often seen on the boards.
I urge caution when giving and accepting advice concerning meds, especially the powerful meds many here take. I would again defer to the professionals and if you're not confident with your doctor, find one who you can trust.
Positive thoughts
Not always easy, FMP. I think it's important to point out that there is often a huge gap in GPs knowledge of how ADs work, how to withdraw safely and slowly from them and how side effects can impinge on any potential benefits. There has been an increasing tendency to prescribe these powerful drugs without the prescribing clinician being fully informed as to how these ADs work in the optimum manner.
For example a GP for whom I have huge respect astounded me with some advice he gave me regarding an SNRI which was quite frankly downright wrong and potentially dangerous. We need to be in possession of all the facts in order to make appropriate decisions as to what meds if any we are going to take in order to tackle our mental health issues. As mental health training for a GP is very low priority here in the UK we as patients need to arm ourselves with as much knowledge as we can. If GPs feel out of their depth prescribing then they need to be honest and refer on to the next level.
Try being in a UK mental institution,they dish out meds like sweets and yank you off them cold turkey.Then wonder why you relapse or get worse
Not always easy, FMP.
I understand that and I said as much in my post. I just feel it's equally if not more risky to do this on your own or by advice from non professionals or Dr Google (regardless of the website it's from). Ask questions and be your own advocate, yes, but tread carefully.
Positive thoughts
Try being in a UK mental institution,they dish out meds like sweets and yank you off them cold turkey.Then wonder why you relapse or get worse
Absolutely
---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ----------
I understand that and I said as much in my post. I just feel it's equally if not more risky to do this on your own or by advice from non professionals or Dr Google (regardless of the website it's from). Ask questions and be your own advocate, yes, but tread carefully.
Positive thoughts
Of course we must all be careful and I think being careful means having the knowledge and confidence to know what is best for you, not what the NICE guidelines specify. I'd never take advice like this from a website.
Of course we must all be careful and I think being careful means having the knowledge and confidence to know what is best for you, not what the NICE guidelines specify. I'd never take advice like this from a website.
That's my point. Everyone is different and guidelines are just that... to guide. The path to a destination isn't always a straight line but the general direction is the same.
Positive thoughts
You know reading all these posts sickens me.We aren't people when it comes to mental health especially, we are just numbers to the majority of GP's.
Never mind me, but my daughter who is in her twenties, was initially seen by two different GP's in our Practice and both told her it was anxiety despite that she has had crippling symptoms of Shogens or M.E. still to be confirmed, nearly 4 years on. It is ruining her life and raising my anxiety.
I can't take AD but I would never take them and as I said the other day, in this day and age the only people benefiting are the drug companies, we are guinea pigs here to make them a fat profit.
I will start by saying that I don't advocate tapering as I am not a professional and therefore am not qualified to do so. I do have some experience of trying it myself though. It's no picnic.
However, very often when somebody tries to taper they will be told that they should do so under medical supervision. This is good advice. But, the doctor may wish to go at too fast a pace.
For example, let's say that you were on 150mg of venlafaxine (aka Effexor) . The next step down is 112.5mg because the smallest dose of Effexor is a 37.5mg capsule. This would be a 25% reduction and could be a serious shock to a CNS (central nervous system) that has become accustomed to 150mg.
As I said in an earlier post reducing 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks or so seems to work for some people. Or go ever more slowly. It takes a long time but slowly can be the winner in this race. If you were going to try to reduce by 10% accurately you would need to count beads or cut up tablets and weigh them precisely with a highly sensitive digital scales.
But, I would be sure to tell a doctor what you are planning to do also. And proceed very carefully. Another complication would be if you were taking more than one drug. Some should be tapered before others.
It would also be a very good idea to let somebody close to you know what you are attempting to do.
http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/drugs-and-treatments/medication-stopping-or-coming-off.aspx#.VkENu3rfWrV
MyNameIsTerry
09-11-15, 23:21
You can rely on the advice of a poorly trained GP or you can arm yourself with information from the people your GP's refer you to or the charities who work with real sufferers and produce their information from speaking to specialists NOT GP's.
Read a GP's medical licence and it well tell you that they cannot specialise.
So I think I will stick with the large amount of experts who I can find through Google over a GP who couldn't even do what they do.
We have plenty of threads on here where people have suffered in withdrawal due to a poor GP. If those people had looked up the right information they could have challenged that and formed a better plan. But then is the issue here really about Google? I wonder...:whistles:
Lets remember that GP supervision is not like real supervision as well. It's a quick chat every couple of weeks. It's a medical disclaimer really as GP's do very little. We should do it but it's a safeguard.
It's all well and good to say find another GP but we don't live in that world. We don't know how bad others are so its a gamble.
I definitely would like to say that I am in charge of my own health and no G.P will be making any decisions without me fully looking into things. I am now sitting here again wide awake at this hour when most sleep as I am anxious about the whole withdrawals that most definitely await me. I will go the week on 20mg and then decide where to go from there but just stopping them and then starting mirtazapine is quite a scary thought as the half life of duloxetine and most antidepressants is quite short apart from prozac so very worried I will do through all that shit again....or perhaps the mirtazaine will actually block it out, oh I really don't know
MyNameIsTerry
10-11-15, 07:47
Terry, could you see another doctor at the practice in the morning? I appreciate the difficulties of getting there but you need to have this drug and its impact on your future progress fully assessed in my opinion.
Yes, it is a possibility as there is an open surgery in the mornings. The problem is that it's a 5 minute appointment deal and first you have to get past the receptionists telling people to book an appointment as it's really for emergencies e.g. coughs, colds, infections, allergies...all those vital things. :winks:
If I really can't do anything else, I will do this but it's not ideal as they won't have any time to discuss anything. I can't see much hope in an assessment eitherway as they just don't have th experience so will just go for the switch. I know that needs to happen anyway or just withdrawal at a minimum as this has never helped.
Future progress-wise, it will hinder any real recovery, that I have known for some time after speaking to you before about it.
---------- Post added at 07:36 ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 ----------
I definitely would like to say that I am in charge of my own health and no G.P will be making any decisions without me fully looking into things. I am now sitting here again wide awake at this hour when most sleep as I am anxious about the whole withdrawals that most definitely await me. I will go the week on 20mg and then decide where to go from there but just stopping them and then starting mirtazapine is quite a scary thought as the half life of duloxetine and most antidepressants is quite short apart from prozac so very worried I will do through all that shit again....or perhaps the mirtazaine will actually block it out, oh I really don't know
Here is some information of switching guidelines to doctors:
http://www.mims.co.uk/switching-withdrawing-antidepressants/mental-health/article/882430
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=1651179592
http://cks.nice.org.uk/depression#!prescribinginfosub:2
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD8QFjAFahUKEwjgzKPRqYXJAhXEVSwKHSbGDI8&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpathways.nice.org.uk%2Fpathways%2 Fdepression%2Fantidepressant-treatment-in-adults.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE_HElD-MX0utgJb76g5MDC6NxCfg
That final link is a more exact guide about how to manage meds including augmentation so worth a read.
The above links are all for professionals and if you Googled "Switching Antidepressants NHS" you will see all the same information on the NHS local trust websites. For instance:
http://www.sussexpartnership.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/documents/antidepressant_guidelines_for_use_in_adults_-_oct_14.pdf
These guides are from the local trusts to all doctors in their region. It's what they are supposed to be doing. So, patients can see if their GP's are following guidelines and if not enquire as to why. Seems sensible to me and the NHS obviously seem ok with it. Punch your area into that search and you should pop up your local trusts guidelines to your GP. There is the odd slight difference because the first 2 links show the Maudsley Protocol and there are several very similiar ones so in the Sussex Partnership they advise cessation as opposed to a cross taper with yogi's switch but bare in mind this is an example of a trust, not yogi's trust and that one should be checked to be certain.
In terms of how fast a drug is eliminated from your blood plasma, I always post this standard pharmacokinetic calculation that is used as an averege for all drugs:
-------------------------
Clear elimination has the following:
HL.......%
0.........100
1.........50
2.........25
3.........12.50
4.........6.25
5.........3.13
When its under 5% its no longer clinically significant. It's more complicated than this when you consider how people taper as it will mean some overlap and then with some meds (e.g. Benzo's) you also have the storage outside of blood plasma which also needs elimination.
Factors involved in speed of distribution (drug starting to work) & elimination (clearance out of blood plasma) can be things like age (children differ, there are specific calculations for age that can be used for older people), speed of metabolism, weight (which will impact on metabolism), renal insufficiency conditions, etc. There are some very complicated guides on the internet for those interested such as some books on pharmacokinetics on Google Books but they are very difficult to understand without a medical background.
-------------------------------------
Given Duloxetine has a half life of 12 hours (range 8-17 hours) multiply it by the above but it's going to come out of your blood really quickly. If you want to play very safe, I guess you could go 7 half lives between doses but since Mirt is a cautious cross-taper you should be ok under medical supervision.
I have to say that I wonder about Duloxetine when you compare it to SSRI's which are >24hrs for half life. In theory, Duloxetine can go 3 half lives in a 24 hour cycle at the minimum range making it down to 12.5%. Even at normal range it is 2 half lives at 25%. And...now I've started taking it before bed I have noticed that unless I am having a particularily bad blip where the adrenaline is high, I feel much better in the last 6+ hours of the day and want to do more things which has led to my sleep pattern slipping further too.
I remember my GP saying I could take it 30mg twice per day as some people start off that way. I've done some Googling about this across drug forums and people seem to only do this when starting to reduce the side effects and then go to 1 60mg tablet per day.
I just can't get my head around this because I've seen people on the Ven board talk about how the XL version is better for them and I wonder whether it is because of this issue as Ven has an even shorter half life.
---------- Post added at 07:39 ---------- Previous post was at 07:36 ----------
That's my point. Everyone is different and guidelines are just that... to guide. The path to a destination isn't always a straight line but the general direction is the same.
Positive thoughts
But a GP will apply the the same guideline across ALL their patients regardless of the source of their information so how exactly is that achieving what you are suggesting? It isn't and it doesn't. It comes back down to the GP having enough brains to look at how the patient is responding and guess what...you will have been through withdrawal by the next time they even see you so unless YOU take responsibility and go back to them, you have to put up with it.
So, why go through all that when you could have had that chat first? Thats just common sense to me.
---------- Post added at 07:47 ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 ----------
Aw Terry, I hope you get to docs soon. I had to drag myself out of the bed to go to docs this morning as another sleepless night.
All in all, it was a good experience I suppose. Got one oft the more competent doctors who actually asks some questions as well as prescribing! I told him I wanted duloxetine out of my system and I'm unsure weather to try pregabalin or mirtazapine. I did say I was steering towards pregabalin only because of the weight gain possibility of mirtazapine. But I left the surgery with mirtazapine lol I suppose we agreed that sleep is such a big issue and needs fixing before I can think Abt anxiety getting fixed. He gave me 7 tablets of 20 mg duloxetine (usually on 30) to take for week to see how I go with the drop then I'm meant to start the mirtazapine. I'm just going to start it tonight instead as I have to get into university tomorrow for something important so if I sleep well in that I should put down an ok day. Not sure how he thinks I'm going to cope after just a week of 20mg duloxetine then cold turkey! Not sure this mirtazapine will cover up the withdrawals?!
I'm pleased you got a better GP this time, yogi.
I am surprised you are on 30mg though as the whole point of Duloxetine for anxiety/depression is to go to 60mg so it works as a SNRI. At 30mg it''s just acting as a SSRI so you might as well be on any of the others. If this med was causing you so many problems on that dose which is considered a start to the taper, the 60mg could have been much harder on you.
The drop to 20mg might not be too bad and with this med having such a short half life it will get down to the new dose within days. The 20mg will be a generic as Pfizer don't make them from some searching I did on it. Now this is interesting because the generics don't make the tiny balls, they just put one large tablet inside the capsule. So, this means what you have the ability to do now is cut the pill just like with other meds. However, it does need to go back in the capsule just like the small balls since Duloxetine irritates the throat without. So, if a drop from 20mg is going to be too harsh, you have some options. BUT if you plan a slower taper, make sure you be careful over when you start the Mirt as your GP wants you off this first.
Getting sleep sorted is certainly worth it as sleep is so important in fighting all this. Exercise can be a real helper with sleep too and proven in studies to make you sleep deeper. Perhaps even some walking?
Thanks, I will get to my GP. He left me in the situation for years and I've found many ways in which to manage the problems and also make a ton of progress. My 24/7 OCD compulsion days are long behind me, for instance.
keep the faith Terry and keep up the good work,many people on here appreciate your posts
MyNameIsTerry
10-11-15, 09:47
Cheers Andy, I really appreciate that mate.
Fear of relapse must be such a powerful thought, Terry? Once you've been in the abyss you never want to go back..ever. With me it would be about finding the right professional to consult as there are a hell of a lot of duds practising out there with numerous qualifications after their names.
MyNameIsTerry
10-11-15, 11:50
It's definately a concern, pulisa. The thought of switching certainly is since I seem to withdraw ok but starting is a very different issue and none of us ever want to feel like that.
In think it will likely be a matter if having a period to assess the real disorder like you said before by seeing how things are without. It's very hard to judge now but I can see what has gone and what is sticking around that has been before or due to this med. I'm not going to really know without trying this as I could otherwise end up on the meds merry-go-round and not be able to work out what is going on.
This way I might be able to at least avoid heading beyond a GP and find things aren't as bad as they have been over the years. If not, I guess some expertise is needed but I was much better on Citalopram (20mg) so starting there would seem a good option.
What do you think?
Hi Terry,
Would you mind giving me/us a background story of your situation. A bit personal perhaps but I am interested in your situation. When you do get yourself fully better which you will soon I am thinking (positive thoughts coming your way), I think you could possibly do anything. You seem like such a nice guy with an enormous brain just waiting to get to work on some amazing project in the world. I am assuming you are not currently working? You are right abt getting the sleep pattern fixed. I know I feel and accomplish so much more when I am not been a night owl. I hope you get to the G.P with a plan to switch meds as the sooner the better. I also wondered why I was on 30 mgs and there was never a word of 60 mgs but as you said it prob would have made me fee a lot worse so I am more than likely better off!
I am on day 2 of my 20 mg and nothing out of the ordinary to report yet :blush::hugs:
As you may know I'm on venlafaxine I started on 75mg at the beginning and went up to 150mg with no effects. After I'd had a few years of doing good I asked gp could I go back down to 75mg and he said no problem . I had no withdrawal symptoms and was on that dose for7-8 years until this last meltdown. Going up to 150mg then 225mg had no bad effects either. Maybe I'm a lucky one but its obviously true GPS have no idea of the recommended tapering of SSRI !!!
It's definately a concern, pulisa. The thought of switching certainly is since I seem to withdraw ok but starting is a very different issue and none of us ever want to feel like that.
In think it will likely be a matter if having a period to assess the real disorder like you said before by seeing how things are without. It's very hard to judge now but I can see what has gone and what is sticking around that has been before or due to this med. I'm not going to really know without trying this as I could otherwise end up on the meds merry-go-round and not be able to work out what is going on.
This way I might be able to at least avoid heading beyond a GP and find things aren't as bad as they have been over the years. If not, I guess some expertise is needed but I was much better on Citalopram (20mg) so starting there would seem a good option.
What do you think?
From my point of view a period going meds-free may be an option but I realise that this would be a gamble and I'm in no position to advise you, clearly. Failing that a day out with Carol Vorderman may set your synapses firing...:D
Whatever you decide to do Terry we will be here to support you
It'll be huge for you, Terry, as you know but I think you deserve some input from the NHS if you think the time is right as you've saved them a shed load of cash by doing such a lot of the work yourself and not many people could have done that successfully. There are a lot of minutes to endure when the agitation/OCD is a 24/7 package.
As you may know I'm on venlafaxine I started on 75mg at the beginning and went up to 150mg with no effects. After I'd had a few years of doing good I asked gp could I go back down to 75mg and he said no problem . I had no withdrawal symptoms and was on that dose for7-8 years until this last meltdown. Going up to 150mg then 225mg had no bad effects either. Maybe I'm a lucky one but its obviously true GPS have no idea of the recommended tapering of SSRI !!!
Venlafaxine is notoriously hard to taper for some reason.
Antidepressant Discontinuation Syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant_discontinuation_syndrome)
"venlafaxine (Effexor) seem to be particularly difficult to discontinue"
Venlafaxine is notoriously hard to taper for some reason.
Antidepressant Discontinuation Syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antidepressant_discontinuation_syndrome)
"venlafaxine (Effexor) seem to be particularly difficult to discontinue"
It's got a very short half life,that's why some doctors do a bridge or switch to Prozac which has a long half life to help tapering easier
It's got a very short half life,that's why some doctors do a bridge or switch to Prozac which has a long half life to help tapering easier
Yes indeed. I've heard of bridging with prozac. I don't know whether it is generally successful or not though.
Coming off prozac was the easiest thing I ever did, it is true! The rest of the meds were killers though!
MyNameIsTerry
11-11-15, 07:59
It'll be huge for you, Terry, as you know but I think you deserve some input from the NHS if you think the time is right as you've saved them a shed load of cash by doing such a lot of the work yourself and not many people could have done that successfully. There are a lot of minutes to endure when the agitation/OCD is a 24/7 package.
Tell me about it, I never really had agitation until this med. The first year or so was absolutely horrid as the agitated spells were originally 3 weeks long. So, I can handle a few days now after going through all of that, but long term is does hinder full progress.
I respect your opinion on this matter so any advice is gratefully received. I only ever go my own way when I'm feeling more myself (like thesedays) but it's good to have other peoples input to help me make such difficult decisions.
---------- Post added at 07:42 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------
Whatever you decide to do Terry we will be here to support you
Cheers Andy, I really appreciate that mate. :yesyes:
---------- Post added at 07:45 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------
As you may know I'm on venlafaxine I started on 75mg at the beginning and went up to 150mg with no effects. After I'd had a few years of doing good I asked gp could I go back down to 75mg and he said no problem . I had no withdrawal symptoms and was on that dose for7-8 years until this last meltdown. Going up to 150mg then 225mg had no bad effects either. Maybe I'm a lucky one but its obviously true GPS have no idea of the recommended tapering of SSRI !!!
You are clearly one of the lucky ones, Jay, but I'm glad for you. Some people seem more tolerant to SNRI's. I know mine isn't licenced for OCD and guidelines state it shouldn't be used off label either unless part of a comorbid OCD condition so I've been suspecting whether this is the reason why.
Mine is used more for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) than GAD, I think. I guess when you are depressed you need something stimulating but when anxious thats really the last thing you need but it's so complicated when there are so many anxiety sufferers on these meds too.
---------- Post added at 07:59 ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 ----------
Hi Terry,
Would you mind giving me/us a background story of your situation. A bit personal perhaps but I am interested in your situation. When you do get yourself fully better which you will soon I am thinking (positive thoughts coming your way), I think you could possibly do anything. You seem like such a nice guy with an enormous brain just waiting to get to work on some amazing project in the world. I am assuming you are not currently working? You are right abt getting the sleep pattern fixed. I know I feel and accomplish so much more when I am not been a night owl. I hope you get to the G.P with a plan to switch meds as the sooner the better. I also wondered why I was on 30 mgs and there was never a word of 60 mgs but as you said it prob would have made me fee a lot worse so I am more than likely better off!
I am on day 2 of my 20 mg and nothing out of the ordinary to report yet :blush::hugs:
Yep, there is no point going on it below 60mg otherwise they are wasting a lot of money since this med is one of the more expensive ones.
You might not feel much of a drop from that. I bet you will know soon if it brings any side effects but hopefully you will be fine and can get off it and onto something that helps you more. :hugs:
Thanks, I really appreciate the positive thoughts. I'm not sure about the brain, some might say a big pain though :roflmao:
I don't mind discussing my background. What do you want to know? I've only had all this 9 years and was fine before then, all pretty normal other than some minor confidence issues in certain areas that could have been sorted with some support. I worked in a business analysis role running projects of my own, within larger company programmes or acting as a business lead on the projects of others or as a Subject Matter Expert (SME) as I was a specialist in complex areas of the industry I worked in. So, tons of research, tons of analysis, tons of fighting with stakeholders and telling senior managers why something wouldn't work, etc. The trouble is in a multinational in an industry that was far too complicated for it's own good, you could be old & grey and still see the same issues as when you were starting out. It can be a very frustrating role. Because I became so specialised, and other fellow specialists either legged it or were retired, it just meant more pressure & more work until one day I came into work feeling a bit rough from a night out and something snapped in my head. I spent the next few hours back & forth to the toilets until I was struggling to get back into the building let alone the doors to the office. I had time off, didn't understand what was happening and things escalated slowly and a few months had a breakdown. Everything changed. I did get back into work for a few years (not working now with all this mess) and got to a much better place but it came back and the relapse was a bit worse than the breakdown...and then came Duloxetine! From here things were much worse. Full blown OCD with hundreds of compulsions combined with many themes of OCD and intrusive thoughts which I never had before. I spent over a year reducing these and it took Mindfulness to get that started as CBT went nowhere (probably because of this med).
Things are much better thesedays but until I've got past quite a bit more, I'm not in a good position to re-enter a stressful environment. I can't go back to that career now anyway as my employment gap would prevent getting any jobs like that. I did want to go self employed doing it but without a track record thats dead in the water now.
sounds like you need shut of this Med,its done you more harm than good hasnt it
I agree with Mr Andy but I know from my own experience how hard it is to make that decision and risk relapse. However it sounds as though the duloxetine has given you additional symptoms which were never present before. It stands to reason that withdrawal would improve your quality of life but of course the legacy of the drug would be an unknown.
MyNameIsTerry
11-11-15, 09:20
Yes, I'm not staying on it. I was naive about trusting my GP when I should have done what Andy did and force the issue. I've learnt from all that though.
It has crossed my mind just how much of this will be left behind in unhealthy behaviours but it will be easier to handle those when it's not there keeping them topped up. The fact I have managed to completely eliminate so many compulsions is a good sign though because if I was still so ill underneath all of this, that wouldn't happen. I don't doubt there is still anxiety under there because I know some of the symptoms and thinking styles were there before, albeit in a much reduced intensity with the thinking styles. Some of my original anxiety symptoms are either gone or very low key now and thats another good sign although anxiety does change it's tactics so I will remain open to that possibility and one ppain does lessen another with these disorders. So, I have to remain realistic and open to needing future med support. I'm fine with this though although I doubt I will be so happy when the side effects kick in!
Thanks for the ongoing support everyone. :hugs:
You'll be eliminating chemicals which are not serving a useful purpose so whatever withdrawal symptoms you get will be in a "good cause" so to speak and you now know so much about anxiety that it won't stand a chance once you've removed the duloxetine stumbling block!
I agree and I know you know yourself that you need to get off this drug. You can't stay in this duloxetine mess any longer and you know as well as I do that if we don't tell the doctors what we want to happen, nothing will change. We really are just a number on their systems. You are a smart guy Terry, you will sort this, I just worry for the people who can't stand up for themselves or even trust their doctors when they continually feel shit. Sounds like you have had it very rough the last 9 years but things can change, they can improve. Do you know what med you would like to switch to or do you just want to try come off duloxetine fully and then see where you are?
You were right about feeling the withdrawals quick and I knew they would come too as I seem overly sensitive to meds. I felt great all yesterday then last night I spent about 3 hours crying, I was crying over worthy things but the withdrawals made it extreme. I then tossed and turned feeling twitchy, jittery, dizzy with stomach discomforts and pains down the outside of my arms which come with fibro. I can handle it though. I think someone who withdraws from seroxat and comes out alive can handle anything to be honest.
So day 3 on 20mgs today. Going to try and get some university work done today and not think about later when I am sure withdrawals will creep in. I am chopping and changing plans the whole time but I am now thinking that if withdrawals get worse or still feeling now great on Monday I may just switch to prozac for a couple of months then have a non existent withdrawal period. Then when my body realsies I am med free and frightened in this big bad world I will have counselling to perhaps back me up this time. It ain't easy but I am glad this site is here and I am glad I can relate to your situation Terry :hugs:
http://www.willhall.net/files/ComingOffPsychDrugsHarmReductGuide2Edonline.pdf
A very informative article, Thank you!
Felt quite normal overall today. I even felt tired when I went to bed earlier but never actually fell asleep . Am feeling a lot less anxious though so maybe flushing this drug out of my system is actually benefitting me!
MyNameIsTerry
13-11-15, 08:36
Thats good news, yogi!
I think it comes to down to seeing how you feel after you get this out of you. Some of the things you have mentioned like the pains are something I have had develop over the last couple of years and I've looked into fibro, CFS, etc but I'm coming around the conclusion that it could easily be something connected to this med. Duloxetine has been linked to liver problems and whilst that is only a possibility (and moreso in heavy drinkers) I think it means it puts a bit of strain on the liver to clear it out. Many of my symptoms are also connected to the liver working harder and there are recommendations on how to improve diet to sort that out. So, it could be that you will feel better when it's gone out because you liver is working harder too? Just a thought.
Given you are starting to feel better, I don't think you will be struggling much coming off this med. I think you should remain open-minded about the Mirt too and if you need it, you could try it. Starting a med can bring side effects but you can always just stop it early on. Some people have had problems with Mirt and they are not suited to it (pulisa will tell you this) but for many it has a lower side effect profile than SSRI/SNRI's and is known to kick in quicker in terms of the med working to help you.
I think for me I am leaning towards coming off and seeing what is lurking underneath. If I need something I think I will try to steer my GP towards the Citalopram I was on the first time as that did actually help me! He shouldn't have veered away from it anyway as guidelines tell them they should first try one that they know has worked before! :doh:
Thanks for the positives though, I really appreciate it.
---------- Post added at 08:36 ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 ----------
Failing that a day out with Carol Vorderman may set your synapses firing...:D
I just knew it would find it's way in somewhere after that body confidence thread! :D
I think Vorderman might qualify as a med of the same class as mine, an excitory & inhibitory influence, a SNRI. :yesyes: (well, there would be excitement but whether I got any relaxation out of it afterwards or just a black eye from the slap in the face...:whistles:)
That woman's Best Before date was last century. She's such an attention seeker and not worthy of your adoration, Terry!:D
Terry sertraline is worth considering I was on it twice and both times it helped ,Cit on the other hand send me bonkers and I ended up in hospital.I found sert very easy to both get on and off with very little side effects
MyNameIsTerry
14-11-15, 04:54
Cheers Andy. Sert is one I think is worth trying if I need to. I only planned on Citalopram because I did ok on it before. The side effects were bad but a lot of that was because my GP didn't make me aware and I had no clue about anxiety so early on. Going on the current med was worse but I knew my GP wouldn't be any help anyway so just battled through it.
---------- Post added at 04:54 ---------- Previous post was at 04:40 ----------
That woman's Best Before date was last century. She's such an attention seeker and not worthy of your adoration, Terry!:D
:D
She still looks better in a dress than me :ohmy::D
Oh well, maybe I can still have Nigella?! :yesyes:
Sunflower2
14-11-15, 16:49
Good luck Terry if you are going to come off the duloxetine! As you know, I had a surprisingly easy time with sertraline - I remember the first day I took it I soooo almost backed out and you actually helped me take that first terrifying step. You've been here and helped so many of us on nmp. I hope you can find some more relief from changing meds or coming off them completely :)
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