View Full Version : meds reduction update
So im coming upto two weeks now from 2.5mg olanzipine..iv cut it down 1/8th for two weeks as from tomorow..iv noticed headaches and slight dizzy spells tight head and tirednes even tho my sleep has been good 8-10 hrs a night.blurry vision and slight raised anxiety making me focus on negative thoughts most days thinking of bad unhappy things that have happend in my past,im not sure but ! Tomorow i plan on taking it down by another 1/8th and stick to that for two weeks.the meds is olanzipine.iv gained so much weight being on it and feel iv never been myself since being on it for two years,i feel iv lost confedance and motorvation and drive.my mood has felt low and not many normal thoughts go through my mind.i feel its made me feel numb and no happy emotions no laughter or happiness..any thoughts ?
Carry on reducing, greg. It can only be a good thing for you overall mental and physical health. Just take it slowly as you are doing.
Greg. Have you discussed these new symptoms with your gp or mental health worker?
They may at least be able to reassure you that they are withdrawal symptoms and won't last forever.
Perhaps you could ask for additional mental health support while going through this period?
Perhaps loom back at your posts to remind yourself why you want to stop these drugs and this will help you to keep reducing.
It is not easy. But you are doing it slowly, which is the key.
Xx
Thanks pulsa/dally.im going to continue.i realy want to come off this drug and after that,work on coming off my trazadone,iv been on that for nearly three years 200 mg...that will take alot longer..my mental health said i will get withdraw from this olanzipine so just riding it out for now.when i come off both i will see how i feel in myself and see if i feel any better,if not i could start on something new.mirtazipane has been sugested by my suport worker,she said she has patiants that have done well on it
I would go slower Greg,olanzapine is very hard to get off once you reduce to tiny amounts
I've still got headaches and my sleep has been really bad the last few days,I'm sure it's withdrawal
Sorry to hear that andy..what are you down to now ? I thought i was on small amounts 1/8th of the tablet,dont feel to bad,more anxiety than normal,tight face feeling esp on my nose,and feel more tired than normal,my sleep is all fine,if anything longer,bit more DP than normal but managing that..was planing to do another 1/8th drop from tomorow night see how that goes.if i feel to bad after a couple of days ill go back up 1/8th
MyNameIsTerry
04-11-15, 05:06
If your sleep has continued ok, then it can't be doing much for that area. I think until you spend some time on the reduced dose, you never really know if anything is lurking below it so what MrAndy says is important for me.
Mirt is known for weight gain. I've seen some discussion over the best doses for sleep on the Mirt board by people like hanshan and SmiliingAlbert. I've seen MrAndy talk about the best doses too in the past. I'm surprised they haven't looked at this before since Mirt is one of the go-to meds for sleep issues :doh: Thats annoying considering your old GP's attitude of "just put up with it" when there are other things they could have tried!!
I think your dropping in small enough doses Greg but should hold each dose longer at least for a month to be sure.In the past when ive tried to get off olanzapine the drop in dose hasnt hit me until 3 weeks later.Im now on 2.5mg but waking very early at 4.30 ish and struggling to get off to sleep.I am going to hold on 2.5mg until at least early next year
Well prehaps ill stay on this amount for another week then see how i feel,and if i feel in control,ill drop another 1/8th..i see what you are saying andy and understand ,and to you terry,about you dont know what it lurking underneth,..i didnt realize mirt has weight gain properties to,jesus christ whats the mater with my doctor,i wont be going on that then.id like to feel once off these medications i will feel more normal anyway.....good to hear your managing andy on your reduction,hopefuly you will get there soon..whats your plans when you do come off it ? Different meds or clean off them?...terry my sleep at this time seems ok although i was very tired last night and it did take me longer than normal to fall to sleep,then i remember having a realy vivid disturbing realistic dream that woke me at 6.30am this morning,had a pee then manage to fall back to sleep untill my alarm at 9am....
MyNameIsTerry
04-11-15, 09:31
Thats good, Greg. These meds do cause vivid dreams but if you can just go back to sleep, it's no problem. Some people can't do that and toss & turn because of it. You've got the right attitude to it.
It's worth looking into the Mirt. Not everyone has the weight gain issue with it, but I thought it worth mentioning as you are concerned about the weight you have gained. Some of the guys on the Mirt board talk about the weight gain issue so it's worth asking on there I reckon. Mirt seems to do different things at different doses and maybe they can advise on where the weight gain issues tend to be seen? Don't let it put you off asking.
Cheers terry.i will investigate the forum and see whats what,cos i dont want to loose one drug and gain another that gives more weight gain again..still a long road yet before i try another meds,as i say mate i want to come off both meds first so i can see just how i feel without any meds,i may feel fine and not need the suport of another med..ill give my body time to recover without any meds for a couple of months before i make and disisions of starting anything eles
I want to come off them for good Greg and start with a clean slate
Yes me to andy..thats what my mental health sugested..i just feel ever since iv been on any meds that iv never been me,i know i had a lot of stress over the last couple of years and am not sure if the meds helped me through it all or if it was just my own frame of mind and strength..but a clean slate is a good place to start the whole thing again..my trazadone will take a long time coming off esp as im on a high dose at 200mg....
You will get there mate just don't get frustrated and rush things
No i wont mate..ill take it slow..i can def feel something tho which is iritating me and that this tight face feeling down one side and a crawling ant kind of feeling in my face.iv had it before but mever lasted this long.iv had it for a couple of weeks now
I always get effected by poor sleep which kicks my anxiety off
Its hard to concentrate at work when your knackered
For what it's worth I think that you are both doing the right thing however hard the withdrawal process is
Must be hard for you andy being at work with it all,you cant escape it..im lucky realy as i can just be in my flat and not have to focus on people and work....poor sleep is always a problem if suffering mental health,my anxiety is always worse through lack of sleep to.....feel ok today as it goes,got the face pain and headeche but feel quite relaxed for the first time in ages weather thats the reduction if olanzipine or just a one off day of feeling good i dont know,but im lapping it up while iv got it because tomorow i could be back to my anxiety depression....thanks pulsa,we will get off this med ,im determind to get off it,as long as my sleep remains good
For what it's worth I think that you are both doing the right thing however hard the withdrawal process is
Thanks I've never been comfortable having something control my mind
Its been nearly three years now and I don't want anymore chemical's in my body
Thanks I've never been comfortable having something control my mind
Its been nearly three years now and I don't want anymore chemical's in my body
Good for you. They've served their purpose and you are strong enough to do without them now.
Agree with that Andy,exactly...as pulsa says,maybe the body and mind is ready to go it alone now..
MyNameIsTerry
04-11-15, 22:24
I think its a good strategy to see what happens when you are completely free of them. It could be that you need the support of a med but it could also be that they are hindering you and the latter has been noticed because of how they are blunting your emotions.
The fact you are managing current symptoms is a good sign. If you were definitely going to crash when you stopped, I don't think you would be feeling so good about the withdrawal.
I was much the same when I came off. I did relapse but I returned to a very stressful work environment.
Well iv been on two weeks of my first reduction of 1/8th off and tonight iv gone down another 1/8th.ill stick to that for a couple of weeks see how i feel terry..iv not had a bad day today as it goes so pray my reduction is letting my personality back through...like the sun burning through the clouds..i could be wrong and just having a good day but ill see.ill be happy if this reduction goes well for a couple of weeks as that will meen iv droped a quarter of this med
MyNameIsTerry
04-11-15, 22:59
If the med was stopping underlying severe anxiety, I think it would show very quickly. That med had a long half life but it will drop by 50% of the reduction by half life, 75% of two, etc so it would show quickly. My gut tells me that having a good day would be very unlikely and med changes can be scary alone.
I see what you are saying terry and will keep this in my mind,i just think two weeks on the first drop would have shown some high anxiety if it was hiding...the thing is,i never had high anxiety to start with before they put me on this med over two years ago.i had depresion due to my relationship breakdown,they only put me on olanzipine to help me sleep,but over the last couple of years iv had a lot to deal with and have been very low indeed.so dont know if i coped because the olanzipine was holding back any anxiety,or i just coped with it and was stronger than i think.i guess only time will tell over the next week or so now on this next drop as from tonight..i remember very well tho,before i was put on this drug i felt happier and had a personality and confedance in myself,and since this drug that all went...fingers crossed things will improve for me coming off this drug
MyNameIsTerry
05-11-15, 04:51
This is something I found that is a standard pharmacokinetic model for meds and I post it when people are talking about withdrawing so they can get an idea of how fast it is leaving their system.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Clear elimination has the following:
HL.......%
0.........100
1.........50
2.........25
3.........12.50
4.........6.25
5.........3.13
When its under 5% its no longer clinically significant. It's more complicated than this when you consider how people taper as it will mean some overlap and then with some meds (e.g. Benzo's) you also have the storage outside of blood plasma which also needs elimination.
Factors involved in speed of distribution (drug starting to work) & elimination (clearance out of blood plasma) can be things like age (children differ, there are specific calculations for age that can be used for older people), speed of metabolism, weight (which will impact on metabolism), renal insufficiency conditions, etc. There are some very complicated guides on the internet for those interested such as some books on pharmacokinetics on Google Books but they are very difficult to understand without a medical background.
-------------------------------------------
Olanzapine has a half life of 21-54 hours with a Mean average of 30 but the blood plasma clearance has been clocked at 12-47 with a Mean average of 25.
So, between 21-30-54 hours at some point you should be seeing 50% of the dose amount that is above what you are currently taking disappear out of your blood. All 100% is being eliminated really but since you have been on long enough to reach "steady-state" (as much going in as coming out) the extra elimination is of that eighth, if that makes sense?
As that reduces via that model, if you are going to get withdrawal symptoms, they will start appearing. I think though that what MrAndy is saying is not just about the withdrawal as it is about how you will actually feel in terms of what is left underneath. For this, it may take longer. It was months before I started seeing the signs after going to 0%.
It's like pulisa always says, some of these meds do more harm than good. They can be a great helper but some of us end up with new symptoms and to be honest I have found some of mine worse than what was there before but I battled on because my GP refused to believe it was a med and I was naive back then.
I think GPs believe what the drugs companies tell them...
Wow ! Terry thats a lot of info,science.i understood some and not the other,very in depth,my brain just couldnt understand some of ot mate,but very good reading mate thanks for taking the time to put all this down in writing for me to read.i think i understand some of it with the half life etc,i do believe everyone is different tho when withdrawing from meds and we dont all get the same experiances.
Well last night was the second drop of 1/8th and didnt sleep very well at all,i woke several times but did fall back to sleep each time,but dont feel satisfied today as iv been used to deep regular sleep for months...this was my biggest fear that my sleep is efected and the insomnia that this med was given for returns..its early days tho and will have to see how things pan out,maybe my sleep will settle down once my brain excepts the lower dose.i think you are right pulsa,GPs dont seem to have a clue realy
Gps are trigger happy with meds,I've been on all sorts and also stopped cold turkey which was a disaster
I never had any anxiety until I was put on citalopram so go figure
From my experience for what its worth ,when you reduce olanzapine the withdrawal effects don't really show up for 2-3 weeks
I've tried to come off it twice but terrible insomnia got the better of me each time but looking back I tried to get off to quickly
Its when you reduce to a tiny amount then go to zero it really kicks in
I dropped from 5mg to 2.5mg but I am going to hold this dose until next year and then decide my next move
Again from experience you should only come off these meds as slowly as possible
I was put on that citalapram in the begining andy,i i had the worse 19 days of my life on it,day and night,chatterbox head that i could not swich off and severe anxiety and paranoia and more..my doc told me to keep with it but my mental health team told me to come off it straght away..it was a relief after a few days my norm self started to return...never again.GPs are usless in my opinion....well if all goes well on this drop i will stick with it for 4 weeks before the next drop and go from there,i just hope my sleep dsnt get to bad because this is what also happend to me the last time i tried to come off it and ended up going back to normal dose
That's why I stress the slower you reduce the better
I was taken off citalopram and quetiapine cold turkey and it seriously damaged me
Coming off quetiapine gave me really bad tinnitus which I still have to this day,insomnia and migraines
Never again
Oh mate thats a shame,bloody meds mate,and to think there supose to help us when all they do in some cases,is screw us up....will go slow..if i dont sleep in the next couple of days i might go back up 1/8th and sit on that for a couple more weeks
After two weeks droping olanzipine by 1/8th its day three of the second drop tonight...slept ok last night but woke once for the loo and fell back to sleep,waking up remembering my dreams in alot of detail..weired ....so far all ok dont feel much withdraw ,slight raise in anxiety and headheachs and tiredness.
MyNameIsTerry
07-11-15, 06:55
wow ! Terry thats a lot of info,science.i understood some and not the other,very in depth,my brain just couldnt understand some of ot mate,but very good reading mate thanks for taking the time to put all this down in writing for me to read.i think i understand some of it with the half life etc,i do believe everyone is different tho when withdrawing from meds and we dont all get the same experiances.
HL % Dose (Mg)
0 100 0.3125
1 50 0.00625
2 25 0.0125
3 12.5 0.025
4 6.25 0.05
5 3.13 0.099840256
Thats how it could look in red, Greg.
I think I prefer the use of "eighths" even if for the reference to my younger days. :winks:
Sorry to hear your sleep is suffering, Andy. I bet you thought it would be the case with that though as I recall you having that problem last time? Hopefully it will adjust quite soon. Given how settled you are in life, it's very likely mate.
my sleep has been better the last few days so things are settling,I will hold this dose and be patient until the new year then drop again by splitting the tablet in half
I feel more alert and less drugged up and ive lost 1/2 a stone in weight which is all encouraging
MyNameIsTerry
07-11-15, 09:34
Thats all good news then. I was really surprised with the weight given all that training you did as I would have thought there was nothing left on you by then!
These antipsychotics really do seem to slow things down. It's good to hear that you feel more alert.
Cheers tery for the encouragment mate and the stats....and well done andy for holding your dose and getting some sleep.its good to hear you lost weight,thats what im looking forward to..im sure over the last few weeks iv lost some to,because my jeans are not so tight and when i where a shirt,i dont have this bog belly sticking out.....i slept ok last night but again had some crazy dreams which i remembered when i woke up.also i that brain zap thing iv talked about getting,iv cracked it ,what i meen by that is i know exactly what it sounds and feels like.......if you can imagin a symble that a drum kit has,its exactly that sound....but as if you were hiting the symble with that brush thing they use,and about once every 3 seconds and with it is a slight pulse in my head at the exact time of the noies.still cant stand it....its like just as im droping back to sleep ,someone is in my head and hitting that symble....
MyNameIsTerry
07-11-15, 10:05
When I had them from withdrawing from Citalopram they were like a twang of a guitar string in my head. I remember hanshan saying the same thing.
So, thats 2 guitars, a cymbal, I wonder whether Andy might get a Sax? We've nearly got a band!!! :D
Ha ha ..lol terry..thats funny...:D
Lets form a boy group and audition for x factor,we could call it the loonies :)
MyNameIsTerry
07-11-15, 11:12
We could start a trend. Some blokes off the Erectile Dysfunction forums could go on as 1Erection :winks:
I think we would be more sane than the panel though :whistles:
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