View Full Version : The dreaded letter
Yesterday the letter I've been dreading for ages has arrived.
The one from my line manager requesting a meeting to dicuss the report they received from my psychiatrist and the likelihood of my return to work in the foreseeable future.
Now I can't obsessing about it and worrying and the ' what ifs' are taking over
What if they want me too return before my psychiatrist recommends ? She estimates a further 3 to 4 months for me too be in a position to consider returning to work. She also says that there are no specific adjustments that they need to make at this stage and when I'm ready she recommends a phased return. My line manager is not the most understanding of people and I have the fear that she wants shot of me and will look for any excuse to make me look like I can't carry out my job properly.
My mind is in a turmoil
MyNameIsTerry
22-11-15, 10:32
The first thing to remember is that this comes under Capability, not Disciplinary, so employers are expected to have a different process more aimed at looking at the reasons behind it and how to support you to maintain your position. It's true, there will always be managers who want to manage people out and this can be a style based on poor relationships between people or to save on cash or even just for an easier life but I think you will already know if you have one of those types of managers.
There really is no timeframe with these disorders so it's all an estimate based on your severity and progress. It's still not an exact science. A phased return is a good way to ease you back in and see how you are coping with the adjustment.
Whilst she has not stipulated "reasonable adjustments" this doesn't mean they won't be needed in the future if something comes to light. At a minimum your line manager should be spending more time helping you through this.
At the end of the day if you are not ready to return by that time a GP would quite happily sign you off. They have no interest in the employer, only you.
This will be a shock right now, it puts a firm deadline on what you see as a point in your recovery. However, it's changeable. Concentrate on what you are doing to recover and see how close each step takes you. Try not to look at deadlines or big goals because they will cause anxiety. I know this is hard though, I've been through it too.
Thanks Terry
Work has been my main bug bearer since this illness began. I keep scanning myself and thinking could I go to work the way I feel now and the answer is always no. I just want to be able to go back, I'm scared I get sacked because of my illness or they won't wait until I'm recovered so will pay me off due to ill health. I would feel such a failure if I have to give my job up after all the hard work I put into to get the position I have.
When I tried to return earlier in the year due to feeling pressurised by myself I was told they don't do phased returned and if I needed one maybe I wasn't ready to return. I ended up having to use my holidays for my phased return . It ended badly with me being admitted to hospital. I don't want to be in that position again.
if a doctor writes to your employer stating phased return I think they have to tow the line,they did where I worked and it really helped.Try and remain positive I was in the same position as you and work became a good distraction in the end,it was hard going back but its better than being at home worrying all day with no company
MyNameIsTerry
22-11-15, 11:06
Thats just bad management, phased return is an industry standard and you will see all the unions state it is what employers should be doing, along with the NHS. All the business sites that employers use, the HR sites, etc all state they need to do it as it saves them money by encouraging people back to work - and it works! Them making you use your holidays is just a sneaky way to get out of some extra hassle. I've seen tricks like that and it can be managers pulling fast ones or just being inexperienced.
I know how those thoughts go about being a failure because I had to face this decision in my relapse. I spent 18 months fighting my employer for reasonable adjustments, won on two occasions but they still didn't do anything, and I decided it was either a job for a solicitor or I walk away. I had some long chats with my parents about this as they are well used to working for crappy employers by the time they had retired and they told me to prioritise my health or I would just keep fighting and making myself worse. They were right and I quit. The managers I was seeing at the time were quite surprised, I guess everyone took it for granted that I would keep putting up with all the crap because I had been there ages and built my career. I looked at it and saw that because of it being an environmental issue they wouldn't change for anything more than short term and unless I found ways to cope with them as they were, I would just keep relapsing. I knew they were lieing about loads of stuff about the pressure having left their dept because I spoke to others there behind their back and they painted the picture I expected - it was the same old mess it had been for years. I kept in touch with them and they told me it just kept getting worse. So, I knew I had made the right decision.
So, whilst it can feel that way, taking a positive action to prioritise the rest of your life over a mere job is the most important. You may not get one as good, but if it makes you ill, whats the point?
I'm not saying leave or anything, just trying to help you understand it's not all about work. I chased the career & status. My dad told me years ago that if you look back on your life and don't like what you see about how you were as a person or that you missed out for work when you could have been having a good life, it's not good. He's done all his fights over the years but raised a family too so I respect his advice on things like this, my mum too.
Do whats right for you.
My daughter works part time in a retail outlet and can often literally feel so bad with her migraine etc that she just phones in practically without any notice.
This is accepted but she is on a zero hours contract but to the best of my knowledge one can't get sacked due to illness be it physical or mental, but please correct me if I am wrong.
MyNameIsTerry
22-11-15, 11:16
if a doctor writes to your employer stating phased return I think they have to tow the line,they did where I worked and it really helped.Try and remain positive I was in the same position as you and work became a good distraction in the end,it was hard going back but its better than being at home worrying all day with no company
I would have to check to be sure on this Andy but I know an employer isn't legally obliged to even do what their occupational health teams state, in the private sector anyway.
A GP can use the FIT note to specify reasonable adjustments but it's not a fixed thing in law, it's a bit woolly. I think the issue is more that if they are given expert medical advice and choose not to follow it, it leaves them wide open in any later legal action. In a capability process if they don't follow it correctly it can mean you winning appeals and if it goes to a tribunal they may take the employees side.
So, a GP could use the FIT note for that if they tick the right box and then the employer has a problem if they don't want to do it. They can then use a company contracted doctor to get advice and overrule it if they wish. I remember a girl I worked with needed 6 months off after an op to correct her back and she would be in a brace for a lot of it. They sent her to the company doctor who did a basic examination and said the opposite of her consultant who was performing the op! Who would you trust? A retired GP or a consultant? Sometimes it can be a stupid battle with HR people.
It's one to look into, it could have changed since I went through it all. The ACAS site will be a good place to look. There is also solicitors websites that can be useful because they publish their test cases.
---------- Post added at 11:16 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------
My daughter works part time in a retail outlet and can often literally feel so bad with her migraine etc that she just phones in practically without any notice.
This is accepted but she is on a zero hours contract but to the best of my knowledge one can't get sacked due to illness be it physical or mental, but please correct me if I am wrong.
They can, it's called a Capability process. They just have to prove you can't do the job and they can't offer you one you can do. At this point they can offer you redundancy or just give you the push with the option of a payout.
It can take a long time though as they have to be very careful as you can take them to a tribunal. It's the same process for people not hitting their targets.
My last employer used this process to manage out two people undergoing cancer treatment. That should give you an idea of what kind of company they are. These people had taken them to a tribunal the last I heard.
I know were I worked my contract said 6 months then they could offer me an alternative role or dismiss me.I went back after about 3 months which in hindsight was far to soon
I then decided to step down from my management role to try and relieve some of the stress,the trouble is they gave me a huge pay cut but treated me exactly the same as when I was a manger.I finally plucked up the courage a few months ago to look for another job and so far it's been going really well
The best advice given here Lan is Terry's regarding doing what's right for you,I found you have to be selfish when dealing with anxiety and put yourself 1st
There are plenty of others jobs out there if it ever came down to it
I actually feel sick at the thought of seeing this woman. I'm hoping I'm allowed to be accompanied by my advocate or my support worker. I thnk if I meet her alone I will feel like a naughty school girl being sent to the head masters office! And I will agree to anything
I really need to work for financial reasons being the main reason. I'm a widowed parent so the only income I have is what I earn. I'm currently surving on benefits and the thought of living like this forever terrifies me.
I no I have to do this and face the fear I'm just scared I feel intimidated I'm not a person who can stand up for herself and I'm a people pleaser
I took my wife to almost every psychiatric meeting and employer meetings I had so I don't see why you can't have some support
MyNameIsTerry
22-11-15, 11:48
In a formal meeting they should allow you to have a witness but they may insist it is someone from within the company. I argued this was totally inappropriate in amental health case (it is in many physical health cases too) and they allowed my dad to attend. They said this was not catered for in informal meetings but since they were coming to my home as I couldn't go to the office they hardly had a say in this! They did try it on but were reminded who's property they were entering regardless of their process & rules!
Andy, the rules at my company kept any timescales out of it so they could be flexible to their own needs when it came to a final decision. They had a process of formal hearngs though but again with no timescales between but they had to be reasonable so you try to achieve something. They made me laugh to be honest because they put a date on my recovery to which I asked if any of them were medically trained and told them my GP wouldn't give a timescale...and it was quite easily removed from the paperwork.
I should add I work in the private sector and they seem to make it up as they go along
My support worker informed me they do have someone working with them that deals with employment and helping me back to work when I'm ready but I'm scared they won't take any notice of them and try to force me to return before I'm ready
Trust it to be happening at this time if year I'm already worked up about Christmas and now this on top... I also have major problems with my son at the mo which is a major trigger for me
MyNameIsTerry
22-11-15, 12:06
They can't force you back to work, your GP can easily sign you off. What they can do is enter you into their Capability process and go from there. In mine if it was impossible to return and the process itself would be more detrimental, there was an option to dismiss with the payout but other than that it was a longwinded process of several further meetings with space inbetween to show improvement.
I would suggest you get a copy of your company handbook or their HR policies off any intranet they have, etc. They havce to have them documented in HR.
You can also call places like ACAS for advice of the CAB.
I've spoken to my CPN who is going to come with me, so I've emailed my boss with his availability next week. Now I'm all chewed up waiting for a reply
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