View Full Version : Withdrawing from mirtazapine
Hi everyone
I have had a strange journey with mirtazapine and now feel I want off.
I was initially prescribed sertraline - 50 mg, then 100mg 2 weeks later. Horrible side effects and came off them after 4 weeks, GP prescribed Mirtazapine initially at 15 mg, and then 30 mg 2 weeks later.
So I have been on 30 mg for around 6 weeks now. I still have fairly acute anxiety and my sleep is pretty non-existent. Not too much trouble getting to sleep, but awake around 3 hours later and then toss and turn. Often I awake in an absolute sweat - bed linen and night wear absolutely soaked. This was the case last night.
GP won't give me anything to help with my sleep, and because I am so tired during the day I feel awful - jittery, shivering, hot and cold sweats etc. Plus, I still have the nervousness and anxiety.
So what is the point of taking the meds ? They are clearly not helping with my sleep, nor am I free from the anxiety.
I am now thinking that perhaps the best thing I can do is come off the meds or at the very least reduce down to 7.5 mg - ie, that dose which is generally regarded better to aid sleep.
Any advice or helpful info, personal experiences of Mirt etc would be very welcome.
I spend a lot of time on my own - my husband works away, so am alone with my thoughts a lot of the time. I know this is not a good thing, and if I am withdrawing from meds on my own then I don't expect it to be easy - but if I could just get some sleep it would be much easier.
I took Mirtazapine for 8 months 4 years ago but it made me feel terrible but my doctor persuaded me about 8 weeks ago now to give it another go, blaming my bad divorce on my mnetal state 4 years ago, but I am finding I am crying all the time and very depressed again so want off also! I had a bad time getting off before but was on a much higher dose (15mg this time) and am starting to think I am much better off going medicine free as ad's just seem to make me so much worse.
I lived with my 12 year old son but my ex husband took him from school 5 weeks ago saying my depression has gone on too long, this has been horrific for me as he tooke mt to court to reverse the residency and told a pack of lies about me which the judge believed. I cannot stand being on my own in my house so am stating with my parents but my dad just yells all the time, so it's a no win situation. Really hope things get better for you. I am going to drop to 7.5mg tonight as I cannot stand this terrible grieving any longer and would rather just see how I feel on my own now. hugs darl xxx
:bighug1:
Sandie and Karen, you both have such a lot to deal with and mirt is obviously not helping at all. I don't take any meds either as they didn't help me with my anxiety and my life is always going to be very challenging and stressful with my home situation.
Sometimes meds don't help and you and your liver are better off without them IF they prove ineffective and just give additional long term symptoms. Mirt is NOT a gentle anti-d-I had the most horrendous reaction to it myself. There are no "gentle" anti-deps but if they help and improve quality of life then they play a part in healthy functioning.
Your GP is the only one to advise but I think you both have a right to choose whether you continue with meds or not. I really wish you both the best of luck with your decisions xx
Thank you Pulisa - can you tell me did you have night sweats and increased anxiety on Mirt ? Did you also find it made you almost 'hyper' - it seems to have given me so much nervous energy and I am jittery a lot of the time.
Nor have I benefitted from it's supposed ability to enhance sleep. Did Mirt disrupt or enhance your sleep ??
I was literally punching walls with mirt-I had a horrible reaction and felt the most overpowering sense of aggression. I couldn't sleep and was taken off it straightaway. I don't know what dose I was given as I took it in good faith about 10 years ago now. I wouldn't be so trusting now....
One of the things I think GPs don't always take into account when prescribing a dosage, is the patient's size. I am not especially large, and yet no doubt I was started on the same dose another person twice my size might be prescribed.
I am concerned about tapering too quickly, but am keen to be off these meds. I have masses of nervous energy during the day and wonder if this is what is waking me up and not allowing me to get back to sleep.
While I wouldn't describe it as punching the walls, it is a bit hyper.
I think size is a very important criteria to take into consideration. For me a lower dose is always better tolerated. Personally I think for anxiety and agitation less is always a better option.
Hi Sandie,
I have a very similar story with mirtazapine. I am also on Citalopram, which I have just increased from 20 mgs to 40 mgs - more on that later.
I started on 7.5 mg of Mirtazapine a couple of years ago. I had depression and anxiety last February and was put on 15 mgs of Citalopram; I had to reduce to 30 mgs of Citalopram to 20 mgs at the same time.
At the end of October I became severely anxious and depressed. I was put up to 30 mgs of mirtazapine; Citalopram remained at 20 mgs. I was signed off work and am still signed off. Every since then, like you, I've been sleeping for three or four hours a night: no real problems getting off to sleep, but I typically am bang awake between two and three am. The insomnia is now my biggest problem by far; like you, I feel I could cope much better with some sleep. I've taken a couple of small overdoses: often feel as if I can't really carry on.
So, after six weeks of this, I've reduced the mirtazapine to 15 mgs and upped the Citalopram to 40 mgs. Hopefully my sleep will begin to improve. It's an ongoing nightmare. You have my real sympathy!
Let me know how you go.
---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 ----------
Sorry, I should have said I was upped to 15 mgs of Mirtazapine, not Citalopram.
---------- Post added at 10:59 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------
I get the sweats as well! Need to go and change the bedding now!
I have husband at home for around 4 weeks now - he arrived back yesterday. He is a very positive and supportive person and I cope much better when he is at home.
After the awful sleep issues and awaking in a perspiration soaked bed, I decided last Wednesday to come off the Mirt. Because I only had 30mg tablets in the house I broke these in two and only took 15 mg on both Wednesday and Thursday nights.
My GP had given me a prescription for 45 mg tablets which I had not used, so on Friday on had this dispensed. I was worried that to reduce down to 15 mg, was to big a drop, and thought that to go from 30 mg to 22.5 mg (ie, half of a 45 mg tablet) , might be more sensible.
I know it was mixing dosages - going from 30 mg, to 15 mg for two nights, and then up to 22.5 mg, but thought that this was probably the safest and slowest way of withdrawing.
Barely managed 3 hours sleep, and today I am jittery and very anxious. Can't wait to get all of these blasted meds out of my system - I just hope that it is not a bad withdrawal experience.
One question for any Mirt users out there. Did any of you develop phobias while on the Mirt or did any of you become agoraphobic ? Certainly in the 3 months since I have been on meds (4 weeks sertraline and 8 weeks Mirt), my anxiety has worsened and I have developed some almost manic behaviour with certain things.
Mirt introduced anxiety and panic for me at 45mg and the anxiety remained at 30mg. I found that I could not tolerate being in confined spaces after taking mirt. The whole point of being on mirt is to improve mood and reduce anxiety. If it is not doing both then what is the point in persisting. I am on a journey back to no meds and it is the most difficult thing that I have ever done. Good luck in your journey
Hipha, good luck with your journey too. I made the same decision 6 months ago and don't regret it-neither does my liver. I still have agitation but it's no different to when I was on meds.
Hello Sandie, Pulisa and Hipha,
I can empathise with what you have experienced on 30 and 40 mgs of Mirt.
Like Sandie, I have slept about three hours a night since my doc upped my dose to 30 mgs of Mirt: this strikes me as too much of a coincidence. Tonight will be my second night on 15 mgs. I think it will probably take two or three days for the levels of Mirt to reduce, which is probably why Sandie only got three hours sleep last night.
Everyone is different, and I know from this forum that some people do really well on 30 or 45 mgs of Mirt. In my own case, I think six weeks is long enough: if it isn't going to work now, then there is probably no point in continuing at 30 mgs.
I empathise with Sandie's description of her doctor being unwilling to prescribe sleeping meds. Most doctors now seem full of the horrors of 'addiction'. Yes, no-one wants to get addicted to benzos or 'Z-drugs', but I really feel that it is often better to get a few hours rest from a couple of tablets than it is to spend most of the night tossing and turning. When you feel a bit more 'normal' mentally, then you can reduce your reliance upon benzos or Z-drugs: they need to be used as they were intended to be used, I would say; they are not 'evil' per se.
Hipha - may I ask how long you were on Mirt and at what dosages ? How has your withdrawal been thus far ?
So I have seen my GP today and told him that I am weaning off. I told him that I had dropped from 30mg to 22.5mg, and that I intended to stay on this does for 8-10 days, and then drop to 15mg, where I will remain for another 8-10 days. From here to 7.5 mgs for around 8-10 days and then take 7.5 mgs on alternate days for maybe a week or two.
I want it to be gradual and in as small increments as possible in the hope that it will cause me less side effects.
BUT, GP seems to think it is not necessary to be this slow and gradual, and suggests, drop by half straight to 15mg, for 2 weeks, and then continue 15 mgs on alternate days for another 2 weeks before stopping altogether.
His reasons ? The drug companies make the tablets in 15mg, 30mg and 45 mg tablets. Therefore he can only prescribe increases or reductions in these dosages, ie, he cannot condone splitting a pill (which is what I am doing with the 45 mg tablets I was given but never used, in order to drop from 30 mg to 22.5 mgs.) It is also the reason why he started me at 15 mg, even though one of my issues is lack of sleep - I barely manage 2-3 hours a night - and research/evidence points to 7,5 mg being the very best dosage of Mirt for promoting restful sleep.
I like my GP and I think I could trust him with all things physical, but however experienced a GP might be, he is not a mental health professional.
I still believe that the young and inexperienced GP who started me on ADs back in September should not have done so as speedily as was the case without having given me some breathing space. Yes I was anxious because all sorts of things were happening in my life over which I had no control and I was struggling, but I think she felt - and in some ways led me to believe, that ADs were a magic bullet and they most certainly are not.
Istherehope?
14-12-15, 18:21
Gosh my heart goes out to everyone on this thread...this is so so tough isn't it? A63 I can relate so much, I am often feeling that I don't want to carry on too...
I've wondered about the Mirt introducing more fears for me Sandie. I've become fairly convinced that we can't cope financially as a family, which is (hopefully) irrational and wasn't something I was worried about before the meds...its just so hard to know what is meds and what is the illness, it does my head in.
Anyway, I've no real answers but want to give hugs to everyone here :hugs: xx
Hipha - may I ask how long you were on Mirt and at what dosages ? How has your withdrawal been thus far ?
Hello Sandie. I was on mirt from November 2014 through to July 2015 including 10 weeks withdrawal. 3 weeks on 15mg, increased to 30mg which was ok but still did not give relief for persistent nausea, increased to 45mg for 3 weeks but was too much and introduced panic so dropped back down to 30mg and mild anxiety emerged. Decided to withdraw after recognising that I was feeling no better on mirt than before taking. Withdrawal was tough and I dropped quickly but it was bearable for me... Over 4 months off mirt and as I am currently withdrawing from lyrica I am not sure whether I am suffering any lingering withdrawal from mirt.
MyNameIsTerry
15-12-15, 07:52
One question for any Mirt users out there. Did any of you develop phobias while on the Mirt or did any of you become agoraphobic ? Certainly in the 3 months since I have been on meds (4 weeks sertraline and 8 weeks Mirt), my anxiety has worsened and I have developed some almost manic behaviour with certain things.
Whilst I haven't been on Mirt, I have been on Citalopram and Duloxetine. Both made me agoraphobic. I've always said that it wasn't true agoraphobia though, more increased anxiety of my GAD manifesting this way as months of getting out sorted this and I don't think that does justice to how a true agoraphobic has to battle out of their disorder.
---------- Post added at 07:52 ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 ----------
I want it to be gradual and in as small increments as possible in the hope that it will cause me less side effects.
BUT, GP seems to think it is not necessary to be this slow and gradual, and suggests, drop by half straight to 15mg, for 2 weeks, and then continue 15 mgs on alternate days for another 2 weeks before stopping altogether.
His reasons ? The drug companies make the tablets in 15mg, 30mg and 45 mg tablets. Therefore he can only prescribe increases or reductions in these dosages, ie, he cannot condone splitting a pill (which is what I am doing with the 45 mg tablets I was given but never used, in order to drop from 30 mg to 22.5 mgs.) It is also the reason why he started me at 15 mg, even though one of my issues is lack of sleep - I barely manage 2-3 hours a night - and research/evidence points to 7,5 mg being the very best dosage of Mirt for promoting restful sleep.
I think this is a big problem with these GP's, the based dosage on a manufacturing unit size. The unit size should be there to provide them with the ability to do what they want, it shouldn't dictate treatment. Drug companies don't make them with withdrawl in mind anyway.
If we go by this GP's advice then we can't ever follow what MIND have reseached or what the Royal College of Psychiatrists say. The latter being the very people GP's refer more complex issues to when they are out of their depth. To put it in terms of physical illness, who's advice would you follow - your cardiologist or your GP when it comes to your heart?
I think you have summed it up perfectly Terry.
I also believe that my GAD / Health Anxiety has been exacerbated by the meds, and this has increased my sense of agoraphobia, which because I then spend more time indoors, along with my thoughts, then worsens my general anxiety.
Now if all of this happens during the dark, grey, gloomy and wet months of winter - is it any surprise that the depression / anxiety often deepens.
By the way Terry, I have hopefully sent you the attachment about withdrawing from ADs, etc via PM - hopefully it has worked.
So last night I reduced my Mirt dosage - from 22.5 to 15 mg. I slept well for the first time in a long while, but put this down to the fact that the previous night was very badly disturbed, my husband is home and this is a huge comfort and relief to me. I have also been taking a small dose of Melatonin. I only started this on Saturday night (hubby bought me some back for the US), and it may be having a compound effect.
I plan to drop to 7.5 mg in a week or so's time and then perhaps stop the Melatonin, to see if the 7.5 dosage helps my sleep.
My GP started me on 15 mg of Mirt - which never helped with my sleep. Perhaps had he started me on 7.5 I might not have had all the issues I have experienced with this awful AD.
---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 ----------
Thought I should add that even though I got a decent night's sleep, and despite this morning being very mild, I am jittery and anxious and shivering; I suspect this is withdrawal and hope that I will be over the worse by Christmas Day. I shall reduce down to 7.5 mg, probably on Boxing Day night - this will be 11 days on 15 mg, which should be a slow enough taper
MyNameIsTerry
17-12-15, 12:54
Thats good to hear, sandie. It must have been a relief to have a decent nights sleep for once.
My GP gave me a month of Zopiclone but didn't tell me how to take it properly, according to the crisis team who he called in who advised to restrore my sleep, so I had to wean off that after becomng tolerant to it. It took over a week of using a "night on, night off" protocol which the nurses said should have been how I was taking it. I knew nothing and was given no advice so just tried this and I couldn't sleep hardly at all on the nights without it but it steadily got a bit more and after about a week & a half I was getting 5 hours or so. It took months beyond that though but it took months before the Citalopram that caused it all started to help me anyway so it could have been a bit of both.
So, maybe you will get some alternating good & bad nights? But as long as it's restoring overall, thats an improvement. No doubt the dosages will affect you in different ways anyway given what other users say about the right dosages for different treatments.
Melatonin eh? :winks: A prescription drug overhere so it's also illegal to import it or bring it back BUT I've seen a letter from the MHRA a few years ago saying they didn't even care about personal use quantities as long as they weren't counterfeit. They may change their policy though and Customs are free to seize it but if you know where to look, there are companies that have postal offices in the UK but dispatch banned products like this from the US where it is legal. The thing is though, you can buy it anywhere in the US, it's not a prescription drug, so my view of this is that we have a very advanced medical system saying it's fine to use and we should be fine with that. I also know that some of the banned substances in the UK only made it on there because of the athletic scandals (DHEA) or the date rape media pressure (GBH caused GABA to be banned). There was NO science behind that, it was political. The US have a very advanced medical system and if they believe these things are fine, why don't ours?
I found Mirtazapine really hard to come off when I was on it 8 months. Far worse than getting off Lorazepam. I am back on it now but just cannot seem to settle on a dose so sure it just is not for me but my doctor keeps pushing it! I stopped altogether for 6 nights and just felt low not like before when I was on it a long time but took it again last night...I just wish I cold have the Lorazepam back as it really was not that bad to get off (two years on it) and it made me feel NORMAL which surely is the most important thing, where as I just never feel right since coming off it. The only AD I ever took on it's own and felt great on was Citalopram but I cannot get back on it without Z drugs or benzo's as SSRI's give me panic attacks for about three months before they really kick in and I didn't find Escitalopram anywhere near as good as Cit. xxx
Hi, all,
I am not feeling smug, believe me, only just grateful that I went another route than mirt for the sleeplessness I was having this past spring. Well, really, I have had sleep issues for years, and ended up quite dependent also on zopiclone, despite them saying it wouldn't happen. ... I struggled again last winter with depression even on Effexor. Having read that zop is a contributor to this (great, hey? not only addictive, but it can worsen depression!), I decided to withdraw from that. (Not the Effexor.) When I talked to my doctor about a low dose of mirt for sleep, he wasn't all that keen. I read some more (on here), this time about Trazodone. This is one mild AD, so mild in fact that it is rarely prescribed as such anymore. It is, however, used for sleep! Much more gentle than zopiclone, but I find it both effective (more gradual), and can stop it whenever I like. It took me just two weeks of substitution with it to come off of the zopiclone and sleep with nothing at all!
Just thought I would pass that along. I know how vexing it is to not be able to sleep, on top of anxiety and depression. I take one 50 mg usually, but have taken two tablets and slept like a log, straight through! This is the dose my pharm says is normally prescribed for depression. And call it placebo effect if you like, but I honestly think it is boosting my mood!
Best to all! xx
Marie
With regards to the Melatonin - I know it is prescription only in the UK, and I have a friend who was diagnosed with CFS and has been given Citalopram AND Melatonin for her insomnia.
Whenever I have mentioned the sleep problems I have experienced, my GP has refused to give me anything to help. When I mentioned to him that my husband could bring me back some Melatonin from the US, he was reluctant that I should even consider taking it; he firmly believes that all sleep aids are addictive and eventually lose their efficacy.
I find it so ridiculous that GPs dole out powerful and expensive ADs which mess with 'brain chemistry', and yet don't support a patient's decision to take something which is 'natural' - and which hasn't cost the NHS a penny !
MissyMischief
17-12-15, 20:19
Hi Sandie,
Sorry to hear you are struggling with mirtazapine. You sounded so hopeful about it in the beginning when you switched from sert :huh:.
I had no idea melatonin was prescription only in the UK. I've read that taking propranolol and maybe other beta blockers can cause insomnia and melatonin is a good fix for that, which is why I've started taking it. Wish I could just mail you some, lol
Take care! :bighug1:
You may want to consider valdoxan (agomelatine) which can help restore sleep patterns and is used for major depressive disorder. There are potential side effects of raised liver enzymes though. There are no gentle anti depressants no matter what the doctors say..
I'm happy with the melatonin - but don't intend to use this long term - only while withdrawing from Mirtazapine.
Melatonin is 'natural' and as far as I am aware not harmful.
Withdrawing from Mirt is not easy - and when you consider I have only been on it for around 8 weeks this is quite a surprise.
Last night was my second night reduced down from 22.5 to 15 mg. I slept okay and so far this morning I think I feel less anxious than yesterday.
Yesterday I was tired a lot of the day - but I think being anxious and having adrenaline surges can be so tiring.
I know that ante-depressants are necessary to so many people, but I do feel that often they are prescribed too freely - I think this was the case in my situation. Had the young and newly qualified GP spent more time talking to me and understanding why I was anxious and depressed, perhaps she would have thought twice about suggesting them.
I hadn't fully appreciated the impact they would have on me - I thought they would be a magic bullet and that I would feel 'better'. In my 12 week journey with ADs I have not had one day when I felt 'better' - but lots of days when I felt exhausted, anxious, and unwell.
I think the ADs have heightened those things over which I have felt anxious and then exacerbated an already difficult situation. I was concerned about my husband's blood pressure (for all sorts of reasons), my anxiety honed in on this concern and I have become fixated on the amount of salt and sugar in our diet - this has given me quite a phobia about eating. It is all so ridiculous and at aged 62 not something I have ever given a second thought to.
So let's see what today brings; yesterday my anxiety was quite high at one point during the day, so I reluctantly took a 2 mg diazepam. My GP gave me a prescription for these some 6 weeks ago and I have only taken 12 in all that time.
Husband is just off to the GPs to have a 25 hour BP monitor fitted, so let's see what this does to my anxiety !
Good luck today, Sandie. Anxiety can provoke many behaviours which we would not otherwise find rational.
I'd love to see anti depressants restricted solely to prescription by mental health professionals. GPs haven't the knowledge nor the experience to monitor patients on these powerful drugs
I managed a reasonable day yesterday, but do find my anxiety is heightened quite considerably in the morning. Yesterday I took a 2 mg diazepam and it helped.
Last night I had another night sweat but while it disturbed my sleep it was not as bad as previous nights.
I am already feeling jittery at the moment but hope this eases as the morning progresses.
I really wish I had not started the AD journey.
I feel really hot today but think I have PMT, grrrrr! I could cry at the drop of a hat and just feel exhausted but can't sleep. Just going to chill today and watch Christmas movies I think as my shopping is all done and wrapped up. Just wish the weather was brighter as I am sure it effects my mood too. Really not sure if Mirtazapine is helping right now, it's till early days and my doctors keep swapping my dose so I never seem to settle, moan, moan, moan, lol. xxx
I really hope I am not tempting fate by saying this, but despite a disturbed night's sleep, I didn't have a night sweat, and I don't feel very anxious today.
Yesterday was my fourth night on 15 mg Mirt, having already reduced from 30mg to 22.25mg before dropping further.
Yesterday was a VERY anxious day and for the first time in the 12 weeks I have been on ADs, I had to take 2 diazepam (albeit they are only 2 mg tablets) - most days I manage without any diazepam.
It really helps having my husband at home - that extra support makes a huge difference.
My GP has been refused to give me anything to help with sleep - and I have been surviving on around 2-3 hours sleep most nights. My husband bought me back from the US some Melatonin which I have taken for the last 7 nights and I think they have helped, but tonight I shall give them a miss and see how I manage without them.
I shall stay on the 15 mg until just after Christmas Day (a total period of around 10 days) before dropping to 7.5 mg.
Fingers cross the day continues well and I get a decent night's sleep without the Melatonin !
Fingers crossed for you too xxxx I always feel so much worse if I haven't slept. I am down to 15mg now after being on 30mg for a couple of weeks so even though I do have anxiety and feel exhausted, I don't have terrible probs with lowering the dose back. When I was on Mirt for 8 months and used to drop a dose it was pure hell for a few days until I settled again. Hope all goes well for you xxx
So on Sunday night I chose to give Melatonin a miss and my night's sleep was disturbed, not horribly but enough for me to have a significant panic yesterday morning. During the hours I spent laying awake my stomach was churning and my heart palpitations were quite unpleasant.
I ended up taking a diazepam at breakfast and it kept me calm for most of the day. I had a bit of a wobble in the mid afternoon, but managed to calm for the evening.
I took a Lorazepam sleeping tab last night and have managed a whole 7 hours sleep - fantastic - not enjoyed that quality of sleep for many many months, and it has left me with some sense of motivation today.
So tonight will be my 7th night on the reduced rate of 15 mg. As things stand at the moment I plan to stay on this dose for a few more days - certainly until after Christmas.
I do feel a little jittery this morning, but hope that once I get sorted and start on some of my chores, the distraction will be enough to calm me.
Istherehope?
22-12-15, 11:28
Really hope doing chores has helped Sandie, I've been doing the same, cleaning floor, etc., to try to distract myself from panicking x
This is going to sound ridiculous, but.. I WISH I could do chores. When I'm messed up mentally my Chronic Fatigue just goes into over drive and I can't do much but lie in bed all day. Even watching tv gets too much. Having crazy anxiety that's making you want to run around, but simply walking to the toilet tires you out, is maddening in itself.
So yeah, if you run out of chores at your place I have a mounting list at mine. :unsure:
Hope things level out for you soon Sandie. Did you get the Melatonin from your GP? I asked mine about trying some a few month back and he told me they didn't prescribe it to people my age (37).
I have the Melatonin and while my GP knows I am taking it, he did not prescribe it - he refuses to help with anything which might aid my sleep.
Yes the Melatonin is helping - or at least I feel it is. A friend of mine as CFS and her consultant has prescribed Melatonin, and she is also on Citalopram. She says both are helping her.
My husband bought me some back from the US. They are 5mcg and are chewable. Melatonin is widely available OTC in the US and Canada and there is a huge body of evidence that as a supplement they help mop up the free radicals better than a lot of other supplements specifically designed to do this job.
You might be able to get them from Amazon, and my research suggests they are not harmful to be taken alongside the Mirt.
MyNameIsTerry
22-12-15, 14:29
You won't get them on Amazon I'm afraid, it would be illegal for Amazon UK to sell them and I've noticed US supplement companies advertising various US OTC products but when you select your country they display a message about not exporting to the UK. This is only on a few I've looked at and not for Melatonin but I would expect Amazon US would do this but you could always try.
However, I do know one company that will export OTC products that are on the banned list overhere. Obviously I can't post it due to forum rules but I'll get the name to you :winks: I've ordered DHEA myself when I was training a lot and I didn't know at the time it was banned but it sailed through no problem. Obviously the law doesn't care about ignorance as it's not a defence but I've spent time looking at the banned lists and there is no way you could expect people to be aware and some substances aren't even on the published list (they have a sneaky clause to cover that).
If the US medical system and the FDA at's fine with it, it's fine as far add I'm concerned. They have very advanced regulation like ourselves and an excellent medical system, they aren't a back water country with dubious regulation. So, if it's helping, why not use it?
Prescription only in the UK and yet over the counter in most large supermarkets in the US and Canada. It does seem a bit crazy. Ron bought me 2 x 100 at a total cost of around £10.
How much is a UK prescription for one item of say around 28 pills ? Yet the GP is not happy that I am taking something which is helping me sleep.
There is a lot of good evidence out there about how Melatonin is one of THE best supplements for soaking up the free radicals.
Istherehope?
22-12-15, 18:06
[QUOTE=Doze;1502526]This is going to sound ridiculous, but.. I WISH I could do chores. When I'm messed up mentally my Chronic Fatigue just goes into over drive and I can't do much but lie in bed all day. Even watching tv gets too much. Having crazy anxiety that's making you want to run around, but simply walking to the toilet tires you out, is maddening in itself.
So yeah, if you run out of chores at your place I have a mounting list at mine. :unsure:
Feel for you Doze...ME is such a horrible illness. I have a few friends who suffer terribly with it...combined with anxiety must be so hard xxx
I have a friend diagnosed with ME - she has now been off work for around 7 months. Her consultant (whom she saw privately), suggested she been on ante-depressants and she is now on Citalopram. Her sleep has also been badly disrupted and she has become a very bad insomniac. What did her consultant suggest her GP prescribe for her ?...... Melatonin - and it is working for her !
MyNameIsTerry
22-12-15, 22:52
Citalopram did that to me. Within days I had barely slept and my mood plummeted. I could barely eat either. My GP panicked and called in the crisis team. They just said to help me sleep and that really did help. However, my GP didn't tell me how to take Zopiclone properly and within a month I was tolerant to it.
It's strange how they will easily dish out Benzodiazapenes and Z drugs but useful meds like Melatonin, which can be prescribed to children so it must be much safer, address a no go.
Melatonin is very cheap, Sandie. Just looking at a private prescription basis puts it at £14.40 post month.
GP's won't prescribe it because it would be "off label" so they become legally responsible. GP's like to cover themselves rather than do the research and try to help.
Canada's OTC and even prescription drugs regulations are even tougher than in the States. My sister used to smuggle in melatonin and Alleve when she would visit her son in Texas. Years later, yes they are both OTC here now, everywhere from health food and grocery store aisles to pharmacies. In all strengths up to 10 mg. However ... I feel I must warn you that, like most aids, they can quit working at the original dosing within a few weeks. And they are meant to come off of so that one's own melatonin becomes regulated. It may have done that for me and I just wasn't aware of it, but, I found that the original dose quit working the first time inside of 2 weeks, and the next time, within days. And since it had been sheer stubbornness that allowed me to use the zopiclone at the prescribed dose even as I became dependent on it, I wasn't about to start taking stronger doses of melatonin. I just wanted to point out that it isn't all that, not for everyone.
If one is coming off an antidepressant that is creating hard withdrawals, including insomnia, I would honestly recommend switching or cross-tapering with another antidepressant with a long shelf life, such as Prozac, and then withdrawing from that. Just a suggestion.
While my sleep pattern was disturbed, my insomnia really kicked in badly when I went on ADs - initially sertraline and then Mirtazapine. Unfortunately my GP started me on 15 mg Mirtazapine and I have since discovered that 7.5 mg is considered the best dose to help sleep. My GP then increased me to 30 mg - and I have been surviving on between 2-3 hours sleep a night.
If someone told me that standing in a tonne of elephant dung would help me sleep, then I would be first in the queue at the local zoo.
When you're back on level ground I recommend checking out thesleepschool.org/ (http://thesleepschool.org/)
I've heard some good things about their approach to dealing with insomnia. Its a completely different way of tackling it to most therapeutic approaches, and seems much better than the half arsed CBT based ones I heard in the past.
Istherehope?
23-12-15, 16:09
Sandie you actually made me smile with the elephant dung quip, and I've not smiled much today.
Seriously though, 2-3 hours sleep is horrible, I really hope it changes for you xx
I had extreme anxiety for most of yesterday and had to resort to a 2mg diazepam. Out last night and home very late, as a consequence I didn't take my Mirtazapine. It will be interesting to see the effect of this on my day today.
Last night I managed 4 hours sleep.
4 hours sleep sounds like an improvement at least.
When I spoke to my Dr about coming off slowly he actually recommended skipping days, so it may work out fine. Mirt stays in your system for quite a long time as well.
Well Christmas Eve was okay (I didn't take my Mirt on the previous evening because I was out so late).
Christmas Eve night I took just 7.5 mg and one of my husband's sleeping tablets. Enjoyed 7 hours sleep awoke with no anxiety and continued with an anxiety-free day. Felt 'normal' for the first time in months.
Last night, 7.5 mg but no sleeping tablet. Fell asleep really easily but awake at 3 am - some anxiety - which still persists, and feeling shattered.
Let's see what today brings ....
I'm guessing that's a typo and you didn't really take 75mg. Glad things seem to be going well for you S.
It most certainly was a typo !
Boxing Day started badly for me - I was shattered. Another bad night's sleep - I barely managed 3-4 hours. I don't like taking hubby's sleeping tablets, so only take on when I am desperate for a reasonable night.
I had taken one on Christmas Eve, enjoyed a good night's rest and consequently had a very good day on Christmas Day.
Last night I took a sleeping tablet and I had a disturbed night - awakening at around 3 am, but I did get back to sleep again, although not so deeply.
But I have little anxiety this morning - just feeling a little groggy and I suspect this will go as the day gets going.
Last night was my third at 7.5 mg of Mirt. Plan to continue on this for around another week, before then going to 7.5 mg ever other night.
Withdrawing from Mirt is not easy - and to me it is clear, if I can get a decent night's sleep I think I can cope with the anxiety - the Mirt hasn't helped me - so why bother to be on it in the first place ?
I have also had the awful weight gain ! Having lost weight on the sertraline, I have now gained what I lost and an extra 3 pounds !
I know the coming weeks and months won't be easy, and I shall be coming to NMP for help and support.
I have my next GP appointment on 8th January, hopefully my GP will listen to my requests for help with sleep ........
Hey Sandie. I tried taking 7.5 last night, when for the last few nights I've taken about 12mg or there about. It felt like a nice dose when taking it, but I only slept for about 4 or 5 hours. I think I might have to face that I'm stuck on this pills for now, as I don't think I'm strong enough right now to handle the withdrawal. Caught between a rock and a hard place.
Did you take a look at that Sleep School link I posted above. It really does have some great success stories with treating insomnia.
I will try to take a look today Doze. Thanks for the link.
It does sound as though you are reducing slowly and by small increments, so this should prove successful.
Perhaps if you have a plan on which you can focus for when you have finished the Mirt, then this will help you through the withdrawal process.
Would your GP help with a sleep aid ?
I don't really do well with sleeping pills. They'll maybe get me to sleep for a few hours but I find the hangover the next day hard to handle with my ME. The Mirt has been helping me sleep, but at the same time I haven't found it particularly restful sleep, but this may well be down to stress as much as the Mirt.
I would like to come off the Mirt but at this point I just don't think I'm up to it. So I just feel stuck. I seem to have managed to paint myself into a corner.
I dunno about you Doze but I always wake up lots of times on Mirtazapine. I'm back down to 15mg but was awake after only an hour last night. I'm feeling rough with a throat and chest infection though so this is probs worse at the mo than normal. I am the same with sleeping tabs though, they don't make me feel hung over the next day but they can get me off to sleep and I can wake up an hour later, not brill! xxx
I managed 2 hours last night before waking at 1 am. But I did then doze on and off and I don't feel quite as anxious or jittery today. Normally when I awake I can feel the huge burden of anxiety on my chest and lots of jitteriness and tension in my stomach.
Often I also feel shivery and trembling - especially if I have not had much sleep.
Of course it does help having people around me. Normally I am on my own because my husband works away for 8-12 weeks at a time, and our son lives in London. Both are home at the moment - although our son returns to London today.
I am still on 7.5 mg and last night I took a Melatonin. I shall start reducing to 7.5 on alternate nights later this week and see what happens.
Doze - I did take a look at the sleep workshop site. It looks familiar so I think I might have looked at it before. Of course so much of what is suggested is common sense, but not so easy to put into practice. I also suspect that if I could afford to attend his workshops then a lot of the stress and anxiety which causes my sleep problems would not have occurred in the first place, nor would they be present today !
I know exactly where you are coming from about having the 'strength' to withdraw from Mirtazapine (or any other AD). If you are like me it is a question of "..well I feel pretty bl**dy awful now, but if I start to withdraw will I feel worse during and after, and if that is the case I might just as well stay on them...."
I know I shall be very lonely when I am home alone again; not enough meaningful stuff to fill my time, sitting alone with my thoughts - all of which make me anxious and depressed ....... and so the chances of then feeling the need for a magic bullet (which is what we sometimes believe and AD might be), will be high.
Don't misunderstand me - for some people AD's are the best and correct way forward, and they play an important part in the treatment of anxiety and depression. I'm just not sure they are right for me.
I found talking with a counsellor helpful, an I had some hypnotherapy - which I feel also helped. But I cannot afford to continue with this and am now awaiting NHS CBT.
How did you sleep and cope yesterday Doze.
Karen P - are you withdrawing from Mirt ?
I felt very week and jumpy after dropping my dose down to 7.5, I also developed an upset stomach. I decided to go back up to not quite 15mg last night in the hope of at least getting a nights sleep. I slept a little longer but also had terrible nightmares. Anxiety filled dreams, followed by awakening to anxiety in the middle of the night is most confusing. It was like the danger I felt in the dream was still there. Managed to talk myself around though which I felt quite happy about.
Today I feel a little improved mentally from taking the higher dose, but the stomach upset has worsened and I'm feeling sick all the time now. I don't know if it's the meds or a bug, but I could do without it obviously. Hopefully it will pass soon.
I was put on these meds cause I was having severe anxiety brought on by a couple of days of unusual very low mood. I felt like I was having a breakdown. I wasn't sleeping and the Mirt seemed to help that, lowered the anxiety and within a week or so my mood had greatly improved. Great I though. Since then I seem to have just fallen from one problem to the next, worsening mentally with each step. So now the sort of situation I was hoping to avoid by taking the meds, has in some way been caused by the meds. But if I stop taking them I will likely still have severe anxiety and be very unstable, so I don't see what option I have now but to continue taking medication I don't really want to be taking. I've gone over this in my head now so many times I hate typing it out.
I guess I should try life on Mirt properly, but I find taking 15mg unsettling, I don't know how I could stand 30. Whe I take my dose it can make me feel quite strange, with slight sort of burning sensation in my chest and I find it both oddly stimulating and eventually kinda drowsy. Then I spend my day finding it hard to concentrate and feeling quite disconnected and not myself. I don't see how people can live on a drug that makes them feel that way, so I guess it fades with time. I certainly couldn't drive safely feeling like this.
Sorry to derail your thread talking about myself.
There is a Sleep School book, so you can work through his techniques without the expense. I would love to write more about why I was impressed with his approach but I've completely run out of steam and need to rest.
I think if you are lucky enough to find an anti depressant or a combination which works for you and continues to work with no resulting blood work dyscrasia or physical side effects then all well and good. I think regular full blood counts should always be carried out with long term use.
If you've tried a variety of these meds and have stayed on them for an appropriate length of time to gauge efficiency and there is no improvement or an actual worsening of symptoms then I believe that you're truly better off going meds free.
Going meds free for me hasn't been a brave decision-I've been hospitalised with acute anxiety/agitation so I know how bad it can get-but I just feel better not trying to justify why I'm taking powerful meds which are not helping me one iota and it's not compulsory to take meds with a severe and chronic anxiety disorder-it's down to personal choice.
Doze - jumping around from one dose to another, will (I suspect), trick your body into behaving erratically.
Pulisa is correct - you will need to commit to either withdrawing or sticking with a specific dose of the Mirt. Please talk it over with your GP.
Going without meds won't necessarily be easy for you (they aren't for most people)., but perhaps Mirt isn't right for you and there is another AD which will suit you better.
It's a tough call and I know I am in for some hard times ahead - today I am tired and a bit uneasy, - and that is while I have my husband at home. When he returns to the US for 8 weeks or more, it will be worse.
Perhaps you need to discuss your current situation with not only your GP but your immediate family - ie, those who will be around you for most of the time.
I do feel for you though - and you need not worry about 'derailing my thread'. Us Mirt users need to stick together !.
Thanks all.
I definitely agree I need to commit to one or the other. This flip flopping is just making the situation worse. The plan originally was to try and find some stability on 15mg and then possibly come off. Unfortunately I haven't found any stability, quite the opposite. I never thought of Mirt as a long term solution and even my GP prescribed it as a short term fix.
The thing that's holding me back is that I've been through a full on insomnia anxiety breakdown before, 5 years ago after reacting badly to Citalopram uptake. I came off after immediately reacting badly but then barely slept for a fortnight. It took some superhuman effort to get through the following month or two of hell and I just don't think I have the strength left in me to go through another one.
I am trying to find a counsellor to talk to. My family are very supportive but even they I think are getting sick of my inability to stick to one plan. Or rather they are just finding it very frustrating because they see me in such anguish but can do little to help.
I think I will have just have to accept being on Mirt and eventually try the higher dose.
Istherehope?
28-12-15, 19:31
Hi all, just catching up with this thread...sounds like things are pretty tough.
Doze, I totally get that feeling of being stuck on a med because you can't face the thought of coming off. if you do go up to 30mg Mirt though it might not be worse than 15mg, I didn't find much difference when I increased, possibly felt less groggy. Like you I've had a disastrous attempt with Citalopram, and experiences like that create an understandable amount of fear around any medication. I really wish the meds had more predictable effects..and it must be more complex for you with ME symptoms to contend with too.
Keep letting us know how you're doing.
And Sandie, I hope the rest of your day has been ok, when does your husband go away again? I really hope tapering off the Mirt goes ok for you, you have done so well to get this far with it.
I'm kind of doing Ok with adding Venlafaxine to the Mirt...not feeling any benefits yet though and getting scared that I'm stuck like this - depressed/anxious - but of course it's only a week and to early to tell.
My day yesterday was not much better than OK. I had mild to moderate jitters and anxiety for most of the day, and the gurgling in my stomach worsened during late afternoon and evening.
I came close to taking a 2mg diazepam late afternoon, but decided to leave it until bedtime in the hope that it would help me have a less disturbed night (the anxiety and stomach gurgling often keeps me awake in the early hours).
I am averaging 3 x 2 mg diazepam a week, - really trying not to become too dependant on these.
Lights out at 11pm and asleep almost immediately; awoke briefly at 2.30 but back to a light sleep very quickly. Consequently, this morning I feel as though I have enjoyed a reasonable night's sleep.
It may be that the last week on 7.5 mg is kicking in with its sedative effect (I was started at 15 mg so never benefitted from what I know others have enjoyed at this dosage).
Delighted to say (and I so hope I am not tempting fate by saying this), I haven't had a night-sweat for over a week.
My husband is off to Helsinki for a couple of days next week, and then, around mid January, probably either back to the US or maybe to India for 6 - 8 weeks. If by that time I have settled happily on 7.5 mg of Mirt, and it is helping me sleep without any other aid, and if my anxiety is either at a manageable level or at the very last significantly reduced, then I MIGHT stay on this dose.
I am seeing the GP in a couple of weeks, so will chat things through with him, but ideally it is my intention to withdraw completely. I have been referred for CBT and really hope that starting this will coincide with final withdrawal from Mirt.
I am a worrier - always have been, but it has never made me this ill before. I have to somehow find a way of managing my anxiety. That's not to say that there are not things happening in my life which are creating the anxiety - there is - not least of all my husband being away so much. I have the care of his 91 year old mother, a brother who is very ill, and have had some serious money issues - which are still not resolved. But AD's haven't made me feel better able to cope, - on the contrary they have made me feel even more ill and have wrecked my sleep.
I think we do tend to box ourselves into a corner once we are on meds. We might not like how we feel on meds, but are frightened we will feel worse if we withdraw from meds. It's a horrible quandary.
Ten years ago we experienced a situation far worse than we have endured in the last year and I coped without ADs. I suspect it is worse this time around for me because my husband can't be here.
Just one add: When I was on Sertraline for one month I had no appetite and lost weight. My initial few weeks on Mirt didn't change my weight - and then POW, the cravings started - especially for carbs and sweet things usually during the evening. As a result I have put on 7lbs in almost as many weeks. For the first time ever, we made a conscious decision not to have chocolates, biscuits or other goodies in the house over Christmas, and we have eaten sensibly, and yet I have put on another 1lb during the week.
So let's see how today pans out ......
Istherehope?
29-12-15, 19:48
I hope today hasn't been too bad Sandie, good to hear some progress though I realise it's still very tough.
You really do have a lot on your plate right now, it must be very stressful worrying about finances, and having family members to care for. I'd really struggle if my husband was away for that length of time on top of everything else. You've done so well to taper down and have a plan for moving forwards. It's such a shame Mirtazapine made things worse instead of better.
Hoping you sleep well tonight. Thanks for keeping us posted.
X
Bonnibelle
29-12-15, 20:14
Great thread.
I was on 7.5my in May 2013 to aid sleep. I had terrible anxiety and needed some support. It worked and I slept great. Then in November that year my anxiety got worse and I felt awful so I did what my gp suggested and increased to 15mg. It helped a little but not enough because my anxiety has never left me. In fact the intrusive thoughts I was having got worse and I now have anxiety about most things. Phobias of going out and socialising. Mirt hasn't helped and I forever worry it's caused all my anxiety to get worse. My gp says I'm much better on them as does my husband but inside I still have intrusives and feel anxious I just am used to it now I guess. I want to withdraw but I'm terrified of ever feeling as bad as I did when I was bed ridden with anxiety. I'm terrified of feeling worse so yes I stay on them for the sake of not having worse anxiety from withdrawing. I've been on 15mg 2 years and I'd love nothing more than to wean off but I am car too scared to make things worse.
I am not one for meds. They've never agreed with me. I am lucky physically I don't have side effects from mirt but I worry it made my anxiety and intrusives worse.
Good luck. I hope it goes smoothly for you.
Bonnibelle
Have you shared with your GP the fact that you still have such intense anxiety and intrusive thoughts ? And, more importantly, has he referred you for CBT to help you find coping mechanisms and strategies to manage the thoughts ?
Perhaps if you could manage a course of CBT then this would help you find a way of weaning off the Mirt.
BUT, remember, if you were a diabetic and needed meds for the rest of your life to cope with this illness, then why should it be any different for you to have meds for the anxiety illness from which you are now suffering ?
Bonnibelle
30-12-15, 12:15
Yes my gp is aware. I had cbt all.last year privately and it did help. I still have them now but they don't scare me. The aim of the treatment isn't to be rid of them as they say, it's how you react to them.
If mirt helped my anxiety I would stay on them but I don't think they do. They've helped me gain weight and sleep which has been a blessing though.
At last I think I might be getting the sleep benefits of Mirtazapine now that I am down at 7.5mg. Of course it might also be that because my husband is home I have some company and I think I am a little less anxious and certainly a lot less lonely.
Yesterday was a great DAY. Awoke relatively refreshed and with no anxiety. Felt pretty good all day and didn't need to take a diazapam - I am always delighted when this isn't necessary.
The heavy rain woke both me and hubby last night and so I had a disturbed night and this morning I have some anxiety, but a lot less than on many previous occasions. I also feel less jittery.
It was my plan to completely withdraw from Mirtazapine, but if at 7.5mg I find I am sleeping and coping well during the day, then I might stay on this dose for a little while - at least until some of those issues which are making me anxious are resolved.
Whatever else happens, I do not intend to increase or change meds; if for some reason 7.5 mg stops suiting me, then I will withdraw completely ..... (well, fingers crossed, that is the plan !)
---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 ----------
... okay, so maybe today is turning into a jittery day.... now seriously considering taking a diazepam.
---------- Post added at 14:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------
So I sat down with a cup of decaf coffee, put the TV on for background noise and settled down with one of my Christmas gifts - an adult colouring book. The jitteriness seems to have settled and I have doodled between the lines.
I have seen these books in the shops and thought they might be a good distraction, but they aren't cheap, so would not have bought myself a book.
The alternative would have been a Diazepam ..........
Istherehope?
31-12-15, 17:06
I've taken diazepam yesterday and today... Like you I would much prefer not to take them. I was also given a colouring book for Christmas (also didn't want to spend money on one) and have enjoyed it so far, I'm glad it helped you today and i hope the rest of today is better for you.
Interesting that you are getting the benefits at 7.5mg - is what you suspected all along isn't it? Do you feel more tired in the day or is it just at night?
Thanks for keeping us posted x
I am trying to conserve my supply of Diazepam because I know the GP is reluctant to prescribe them. If I can somehow work through the jitters and intense anxiety without resorting to a Diaz. then I know I will have a supply for any desperate days.
At the moment I have my husband at home, and while is spends a lot of time at his desk, at least I know he is in the house and we have the evenings together. When he returns for long stints away then I will have days when I will need more distraction and perhaps will need the diazepam more then.
I think the initial Sertraline and the Mirtazapine were ill prescribed right at the beginning of my problems. If I had been referred immediately for CBT or if perhaps I had been allowed to work through the anxiety .... well who knows,..... I do think the meds increased my anxiety and now I have the devil's own job to sort myself.
But Yes Istherehope - I am sleeping better. This could be the Mirt at the correct dose or it could be because hubby is home, or it could be the Melatonin which I am occasionally taking - maybe all three ? To be honest I don't care - at least I am sleeping better.
I have been a little jittery this evening, but will try to make do without a diazepam. What strength diazepam are you taking Istherehope ? Mine are only 2 mg - to be taken twice a day if necessary.
Istherehope?
31-12-15, 19:40
I think 2mg is pretty low isn't it - I have a stash of 5mg diazepam from a couple of months ago when I switched from Citalopram to Mirt, but I didn't need them. I'm currently breaking them in half and have only taken one half each day as I hate the thought of getting dependent on them. The crisis team nurse I saw a couple of days ago reckoned I shouldnt worry and take as much as I needed while I was getting used to new meds, but I think, like you I also want to save them for any desperate days....just hard to know which days are more desperate than others really!
It's so tough that the meds actually made it worse for you on top of the very valid reasons you have for being anxious. I think you've shown incredible strength to get this far and to get back to sleeping.
xx
I have such strong beliefs that my jitteriness and acute anxiety is linked to sleep - it is always much worse when I have had a bad night.
I tend to wake up around 3 am, but if I am having a decent night then I can usually go back to sleep again relatively easily.
Unfortunately, this has not been the case for the last two nights. I awoke last night at 3.09 and my husband was a little restless, hence I never really went back to sleep. As a consequence, this morning I have some jitteriness and anxiety.
When I have had a really good night's sleep, I have a really good day.
Istherehope?
01-01-16, 09:47
I'm sorry the last two nights haven't been so good for you Sandie, I hope today isn't too difficult as a result. x
I had to resort to a diazepam today around lunchtime. It might only be 2 mg but it really sorts my anxiety and quickly too - within 10 minutes I am calm and the stomach-churning and heart pounding stops.
It lasts around 8 hours too.
Oh that's good Sandie, 2mg wouldn't even touch me. I was on equiv of 20mg Lorazepam until May and then got taken off abruptly after two years, I have been through bad wd but not anywhere as bad as Mirtazapine withdrawal so you are doing great xxxx
It was quite late last night when I realised I hadn't taken my mirtazapine - so I made the decision not to bother, and to perhaps think about taking my 7.5 dose on alternative nights. (I did still take a .3 mcg melatonin).
Well I had a half-decent night's sleep, not perfect - I awoke briefly around 2 am, and then I think I drifted into a half-sleep until around 5'ish.
I am feeling a little anxious this morning, but no different to those mornings after I have taken a Mirt.
I still have 'worrying' thoughts, but they are a lot less black than they were. Of course what I have to remember is that I currently have my husband at home and this makes a HUGE difference to my life.
How I cope with or without meds when he returns to work and is away for 6-8 weeks, well that will be a REAL test.
KarenP - 2 mg of diazepam taken at lunchtime yesterday, lasted me through the entire day.
Istherehope?
02-01-16, 20:55
It's massive progress Sandie, but I can tell you're very cautious about it until the test of your husband being away...wish he didn't have to go, but hoping you'll be even stronger by then xx
Managed all of yesterday without a diazepam. I could just feel the anxiety hovering in the background but managed to work through it.
Last night I took 3.75 Mirt (one quarter of a 15 mg tablet). as well as a melatonin. Managed a half-decent night's sleep - awoke around 2 am, but then drifted back into a half-sleep. Still far from perfect but hugely better than 6 or 7 weeks ago.
I now have to decide as to whether or not to continue at one quarter of a tablet (3.75mg) each night and then after a week or so either stop completely or take it on alternate nights.
Of course here comes the difficult part - this decision will co-incide with when my husband leaves for the States for 6-8 weeks.
It will be very easy to stick with the 'comfort' of a very low dose Mirt, especially if I manage to get some sleep. Will the 'psychology' of no longer being on the Mirt coupled with the fact that hubby is not at home, prevent me from sleeping ? Sleep plays such an important role in our lives and I know I am a different person when I am very tired.
I suspect my GP will say that 3.75 is such a low dose it's not doing anything.
I have a telephone assessment for CBT tomorrow. I wonder how long I will have to wait for treatment ?
---------- Post added at 09:48 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------
So here I am less than an hour after making the last post, admitting that I have to take a diazepam.
I suppose I have to accept that I am withdrawing from a powerful medication and that it will have effects, at the same time accepting that I have to deal with the effects of the illness.
Two nights ago I didn't take any Mirt and last night it was just 3.75. These may only be small amounts but in reality I have dropped from 30 mg to these small amounts in less than a month - I suppose it is inevitable that I a feeling some heightened anxiety / panic attacks / sweats.
Bearing this in mind, and also accepting that depression and anxiety is a powerful illness, it should come as no surprise that for sufferers it sometimes feel easier to just stay on the meds and hope that things get better. After all, if my GP told me tomorrow that he could give me a pill and that without any side effects it would make me feel 'normal' then I would grasp it with both hands. We all want a magic bullet. Summoning up any sort of motivation to help ourselves is impossible when in the depths of despair and anxiety.
This illness is b**dy awful and it's not our fault.
The 2 mg diazepam will kick in fairly quickly - it usually does, and hopefully the day will then improve. I have to keep telling myself that this return to heightened anxiety is because I am withdrawing - I must not let myself believe that it will stay like this once the meds have finally left my system.
---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------
Much more calm now, with hardly any jitters and no anxiety - all within 15 minutes of taking the 2mg Diazepam
I do firmly believe that I am someone for whom even the small amounts of meds has a significant impact - hence why I can't take large doses of the ADs - even 15 mg of Mirtazapine was far too stimulating for me.
Istherehope?
03-01-16, 18:31
Glad the diazepam helped Sandie, and yes it's not surprising given both medication withdrawal and the illness that you need to use it.
I fully agree with you, this illness is b***dy awful and if only medication was more straightforward.
Hugs to you x
Ps hope the CBT assessment goes ok tomorrow x
So the CBT assessment call went well - lasted for around 45 minutes. It will be a few weeks yet before they can offer me an appointment but once started, then I should receive between 8 and 10 sessions.
Slept okay again last night on 7.5 mg of Mirt. Not a straight-through-the-night 8 hours sleep, but so much better than was the case on the higher doses of Mirt.
I did NOT take a Melatonin last night either - I decided not to rely too much on these and I don't want them to lose their efficacy.
I have had some anxiety this morning and some palpitations and minor panic, so took a half of a 2 mg diazepam. I know it seems silly to believe that this miniscule amount could possibly work, but it does seem to be the case.
It is horribly, grey, wet and gloomy here in Kent - very depressing. Managed to get the dog outside for some brief exercise earlier this morning and had hoped to pop out quickly later - but will wait until the rain stops.
I think I will remain on the 7.5 mg - at least until my next appointment with the GP in a week's time and possibly until I have started CBT. All the time it is helping me get some rest and some sleep, then it seems worthwhile.
It's been just the same in Yorkshire Sandie. Dark all day and just miserable which makes me worse this time of year. How long have you been taking 7.5mg? I have been on Mirtazapine a couple of months now but it is rubbish. I took it for 8 months before and tried every dose but non worked, just made me more panicky. I only gave it another go because my doctor asked me to give it one more go. It just makes me feel like I aren't on this planet and sleep is non existent so gonna chop down to 7.5mg tonight and see how I go. Hopefully I won't get any terrible withdrawals.
Hugs to you Sandie, how long have you been on Mirt altogether?
Istherehope?
04-01-16, 20:36
That's amazing that 1mg works for you Sandie...I think I get myself so worried about being addicted to Diazepam that it negates some of the benefits!
Hope you get a good nights sleep and I think we're all hoping for better weather. It might help when the daylight hours increase a bit more too.
Hope tapering down goes Ok for you Karen, it really sounds like Mirt doesn't suit you. To be honest it didn't help me much after the first couple of weeks but having added Venlafaxine I feel as if there might be some improvement. Can't say it did much on its own though.
Karenp - At the start of September I was given Sertraline initially at 50 mg and then 2 weeks later 100 mg. It had me bouncing off the walls and completely destroyed any sleep quality I may have enjoyed. I lost weight and got myself into quite a state.
So after just 4 weeks, the GP started me on 15 mg Mirtazapine which he increased 2 weeks later to 30 mg. Mirt has proved far too stimulating for me, it did not help with my sleep and my anxiety heightened. After 8 weeks my GP decided he wanted me to increase to 45 mg, but by this time I had done quite a lot of research about Mirt and had discovered that it is mostly more effective for sleep at the really low dose of around 7.5 mg.
I was barely functioning on between 2-3 hours sleep and was nervous and jittery all day. I had the most awful night-sweats and was having to change the bed linen every couple of days - sometimes daily.
I started to taper down around the first week of December. I had been given but had not used a prescription for 45 mg Mirt, so I had these dispensed so that I could halve the pill and proceed with tapering from my 30 mg to 22.5mg. From here I went to 15mg and around 12 days ago I went down to 7.5 mg.
I am definitely sleeping better on 7.5 mg - it's not a straight through the night 8 hours, - I do wake a coupe of times, but usually manage to get back to sleep fairly quickly.
I have not had a night sweat for around 2+ weeks. I am still anxious and jittery and I know I still have depression and anxiety, but I am convinced that ADs are not a way forward for me - I think I am very sensitive to meds.
I might however stay on the 7,5 mg of Mirt if it continues to help me sleep.
Karenp - what dosage are your currently taking ?
Had an OK day yesterday until mid afternoon - when my anxiety started to kick in and I was tempted to take a Diazepam. I resisted and managed to somehow get through the rest of the day and evening, but was pleased to get to bedtime when I could just fall asleep.
(Didn't sleep very well because hubby got home just before midnight and disturbed my sleep, and because he was over-tired, he spent the night snoring !) As a consequence I am very tired and as usual when I am tired, I am shivering; the shivering tends to impact on my tension and anxiety, so I am expecting a bad day.
Overall, I am still sleeping better on the 7.5 mg of Mirt. However, I wonder if the low dose is part of the reason why my anxiety worsens during the day ? Having said that, when I was on the higher doses the Mirt heightened my anxiety.
Have now been on the 7.5 for two weeks - and of course I forget that I am still withdrawing so will be suffering some side effects. I am looking forward to seeing the GP next week to discuss things with him.
Have you tried beta blockers Sandie, or was it you who said they couldn't take them..?
Istherehope?
06-01-16, 10:11
Shame you had a disturbed night Sandie, really hope today doesn't feel too bad.
xx
Hi Sandie,
I hope today isn't too bad for you.
I've been thinking about what you say about your anxiety. I am a lifelong severe anxiety sufferer. I have taken anti-depressants for about 18 years now, although this is the first time I have been on three!
I am now on 45 mgs Mirt; 30 mgs Citalopram; 50 mgs Trazodone.
The 45 mgs of Mirt has worked well on the depression, but my anxiety levels remain very high, and I wake repeatedly through the night. I have had worse insomnia on 30 mgs and now 45 mgs of Mirt than I ever did on 15 or 7.5 mgs, so it is possibly too over-stimulating a dose for me. I have always found that anti-depressants have worked well for depression, but have done little or nothing for anxiety. This is continuing to be the case, unfortunately.
I have never been prescribed anything for my severe anxiety. I really believe in CBT/meditation/mindfulness, but I also think there is a case for medication when the anxiety become so severe as to interfere with normal functioning. It is a very difficult balancing act, I think.
I would hang on in there at 7.5 mgs until you see your doc.
I am seeing a psychiatrist on Friday - first time ever - and I will push for a wholescale medication review.
All the best,
A
Dozse - Sadly, I can't take beta blockers. I was give propanalol 10 years ago when I had a similar episode, but since then I have been diagnosed with asthma and so cannot now be given Prop. Apparently there is some real risk of a respiratory problem for asthmatics given some beta blockers.
How are you this morning - did you sleep okay ? No doubt you have been churning over what your GP said yesterday.
---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------
A63 - interesting to learn your thoughts on Mirt being over-stimulating for you; I am convinced this has been the case with me.
I do worry about my anxiety causing other health issues, but as you say, perhaps ADs are not the way forward for this. I too will hopefully begin CBT in the next few weeks - NHS are providing 8-10 sessions. Most of my anxiety is rooted in stress and trauma so I am hoping to learn ways of facing and dealing with this in the hope that it will sort the anxiety and I won't have to take meds at all.
I have only been on meds since last September - initially Sertraline which had me bouncing off the walls and I stopped them after 4 weeks. Switched to Mirt on 19th October - initially at 15 mg, and then increased two weeks later two 30 mg. Have been withdrawing very slowly and gradually since around the 9th December. From 30mg to 22.5 mg, then to 15 mg and now 7.5 mg. It is at 7.5 mg that my sleep has started to improve. On the higher doses I was lucky if I managed 2-3 hours per night.
---------- Post added at 10:40 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------
Isthrehope - how are you today ? Did you manage a decent night's sleep ?
Istherehope?
06-01-16, 12:19
Hi, I did sleep well thanks - I usually do as I seem to be one of the lucky ones for whom Mirt works for sleep. However I think I became depressed on Mirt as before that it was "just" anxiety I was struggling with.
I woke feeling pretty bad, high anxiety, but it seems to have faded quite a bit. I think it is possible the Venlafaxine is starting to help but I'm very cautious.
I think also I'm now coming to terms with the fact that I have relapsed from the original anxiety illness I had a couple of years ago, which I had really hoped was a one off. It scares me to think that I may have to live with this illness and potential for relapse...I've always been sensitive but never experienced anxiety/depression like this until my late thirties.
I guess accepting where I'm at and not looking too far ahead might be the best approach!
Hope today is going Ok xx
Hi Sandie,
It sounds as if you are being very sensible with the meds: I admire how you are coping.
In my case, I think the anxiety is a complex mix of nature and nurture, exacerbated by a difficult early life. I don't know whether the poor sleep is down to the Mirt, to my anxiety, or to a mixture of the two.
If Sertraline is suggested to me on Friday, I will be polite but firm and say No. The last thing I need is a very stimulating AD.
Some years ago, I was put on an AD called Reboxetine. Never, never again. I have never known anything like it. It completely disrupted my sleep-wake cycle and I was up for three nights! Needless to say I didn't continue with it.
As your anxiety seems to be caused largely by external factors, I think you'll find CBT really beneficial.
Having to come to terms with anxiety being a long-term part of your life is dreadful. I had an episode 10 years ago, but it was over with in around 6-8 months, I was not on ADs and came through the other end in one piece.
This episode has been as a result of some significant stress last year which is still hovering, and the stress/anxiety has kick-started other anxieties which are taking their toll . I didn't imagine I would be dealing with this sort of thing at my age (62); but life throws us curve balls every now and then and we have to somehow deal with them.
Both my periods of intense anxiety have been as a result of external challenges to which I have not reacted well or had coping mechanisms. This episode is worse because I don't have my husband at home very much, and I have no other support.
I have had to resort to a 2 mg diazepam today; my badly disturbed night and high anxiety was leading to serious palpitations and tension in my left shoulder and down my arm - it is quite frightening.
It is quite amazing at how very quickly 2 mg works - within 5 minutes I am calm. I am VERY sparing with them and still have one tablet left from a 28pack which was dispensed on 12 November. In fact I think since this whole thing started in September I have only taken 55 x 2 mg diazepam. So that averages one perhaps every other day, and my prescription says up to 2 a day.
I am concerned that if I start using them like Smarties, I will build up a tolerance and my GP will refuse to dispense them for when I need them most.
I've no idea if 2mg is a little or lot when it comes to stuff like that. I know people like the cotton wool calmness of benzos, but I can't handle them sadly.
Doze - 2 mg is VERY little, and if you read the posts on NMP about Diazepam/Valium, some people are prescribed a HUGE amount more.
To be honest, when my anxiety is peaking and my heart is racing, I worry about my blood pressure, and the potentially harmful consequences of this. It's because of this that I resort to the Diazpam, and it is something I want to discuss with the GP next week. I am becoming concerned that the anxiety is perhaps creating other health issues.
It is amazing how quickly my body reacts to such a low dose Diazepam - it is literally within 5 + minutes. Of course this for me is more evidence that perhaps my body is hyper-sensitive to meds and this could therefore be the reason why I have such problems with high dose ADs.
How are you today ?
Erg. See the new post in my thread.. Too maddening to write out again.
Edit: hope this didn't come across all passive aggressive or something. I got kinda wound up by a phonecall.
I'm doing OKish today. A mx of hope and frustration. How's everyone else doing?? Sandie? Is? A63? Magic?
Hi Sandie, Is and Doze,
Sandie, your comment about not thinking you would have to deal with these sorts of problems at your age really rang a few bells with me. I, too, thought I would be 'over' anxiety and depression at this age (I am 52). I have now revised my thinking! I think life is a series of peaks, troughs and level playing fields whatever your age.
For the first time ever, I had a number of panic attacks a few weeks ago. They were very frightening. I can empathise with how you feel, Sandie.
My husband has been on 2 mgs of Diazepam for many years. Very occasionally, when I have felt severely anxious, I have taken one of his pills. I can't get on with Diazepam at all. It makes me feel a bit sick and gives me a headache. This shows how different we all are when it comes to our tolerance of drugs.
I can't get on with sleeping pills, either. I have Zopiclone, but haven't taken it for some time now, because it makes me feel like a very depressed Zombie. I am sure it works well for some people, but not for me, unfortunately.
I am sure there is a mammoth piece of medical research to be made out there on the variety of responses to psychiatric drugs!
My Grandma who's pushing 100, God bless her, was put on antidepressants a few years back. This is a woman who lived through the war and all sorts. She became increasingly nervy in her 90s, but in her younger years could be a real dragon.
Istherehope?
06-01-16, 20:14
Hi Doze, after a horrible anxiety ridden start to the day I felt a bit more normal from 11am ish which is making me think the Venlafaxine/Mirt combo is doing something as until a few days ago I was in heightened anxiety until about 8pm every day.
Saw a lovely crisis team member this eve, they have been either seeing or ringing me every other day for three weeks now and I feel so grateful. I wish everyone could have the support I'm getting.
Must say though keeping up with this little Mirt gang is also helping me too - thanks to all of you Doze, Sandie, A63, etc. it makes a real difference for me to connect on here.
Xx
---------- Post added at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was at 19:59 ----------
Ps respect to your Grandma Doze!
Pps A63 there really is such a massive variety in response to drugs. I know it's great that we're all unique but I really wish we could predict how medication would work, the trial and error aspect of ADs is really awful.
---------- Post added at 20:14 ---------- Previous post was at 20:03 ----------
Ppps Sandie as 2mg works so quickly for you it doesn't seem like you're building any tolerance. It really does seem that your body is very sensitive to meds - a good thing with Diazepam but awful for the ADs. I hope you have a much better sleep tonight.
Hi Is,
I couldn't agree more re. the trial and error aspect of ADs. :blush:
A x
P.S. Makes a massive difference for me to connect on here, too.
Glad to hear you're making small steps in the right direction Is. I think that's what we hope for. Although there may well come that magic day when the meds kick in properly and like that the clouds are lifted. I know I felt that way after getting through paroxitine start up. One day I was out and I just didn't feel any anxiety about it at all, it just felt normal and fine.
So the 2mg Diazepam kept me going for most of yesterday, although I did get a bit anxious in the afternoon - I even managed a 30 minute walk to the vets with our dog, and then a 30 minute walk home again.
I was so tired I started to fall asleep on the sofa around 9 pm - drifted in and out of sleep and so went to bed at 10. Took one of hubby's sleeping tablets as well as my Mirt and was out fairly quickly. Slept through until 6 am.
I did however awake with that awful feeling of dread in my stomach. Don't feel too bad at the moment - just a little bit jittery.
I do have one major concern now that I have been on 7.5 Mirt for 2 weeks. I am worried that I will not be able to take that final step OFF and I think this is why I am putting off the decision until I meet with the GP or until I have started CBT.
I know I am still anxious and have depression. Will CBT be enough to get me through so that I can cope entirely without meds ? I suspect that most GPs and medical professionals will say that 7,5 Mirt is not really doing anything to lift my mood or depression and that as such I might just as well not bother taking anything. Psychologically will I see it as a prop ?
But then on the other hand, many people stay on much larger doses for years, so why if I BELIEVE it is helping should I not stay on a lower dose for however long I feel it is necessary ?
We have a horrible, grey, gloomy and wet miserable day here in Kent. But, for Christmas our son bought hubby and I vouchers for massages at a local posh hotel - the appointments are for 2 pm today.
Looking forward to this but will no doubt get a bit nervy nearer the time.
OOOh that should be relaxing Sandie. The weather is still just dark in Yorkshire too, not one sunny day which effects my mood and sleep. It's not helping being stuck in dog sitting every day for my parents who are moving at the weekend, I can't go anywhere and they're two mad yorkies who bark at everyone they see otherwise I'd take them for a walk, lol.
I am gonna try and go meds free too as nothing seems to work any how now only benzo's. Flux failed, Escit failed, Mirtazapine has failed and so on.
Are your hubby's sleeping pills Zopiclone? I have taken them with Mirtazapine and an antihistamine my gp gave me but nothing works when I am feeling irritable, it must have been 2am when I finally fell asleep last night.
No - hubby's sleeping pills are Loprazolam. He doesn't really need them on a daily basis for sleep, but is prescribed them to help combat jet-lag when he travels. As a consequence he maybe gets through 2-3 packs a year. He always leaves me a strip at home, because he knows I will only take one if I am desperate for sleep. As with all tablets, I am concerned that if I take them regularly, they will eventually stop working.
My GP is aware that I have on occasion taken one of his pills, but I think (hope?) my GP is now beginning to understand that I only resort to a pill when I am very very tired. I recharged my batteries last night - had quite a lot of sleep, and today as a consequence do not feel nearly as anxious as yesterday - in fact as I type this I am really feeling quite calm. I have even had a brief walk in between showers with the dog (we have a Golden Retriever).
Doze / IsThereHope / A63 - how are all of you today ?
Hi Sandie, Is and Doze,
I'm a bit iffy today. I feel tired and doped.
Sandy, your massage sounds great! What a brilliant present.
Something is not right with my current medication regime. The disrupted sleep is now my biggest problem, by far. I hope the psychiatrist will have some good suggestions tomorrow.
I have zopiclone. It is the only sleep med I have tried which does put me out for the night, but unfortunately I find the side-effects quite severe: I feel hungover and very depressed the next day if I have taken a zopiclone. It also gives me memory problems after a couple of days. The side-effects of zopiclone are worse than those caused by disrupted sleep without it for me, so I haven't taken one for quite some time.
I've tried antihistamines for the insomnia, but they've made no difference.
I will get out for a bit this afternoon. The rain has at last gone off here!
A63 - you will find throughout my thread that I have believed that it is the Mirt which has destroyed my sleep - I also think it has increase my anxiety.
My sleep has definitely improved since being on 7.5 Mirt and in fact all of my research among Mirt users is that it is most definitely more sedating at the lowest dose.
I don't usually do sleeping tablets - never have, but hubby has them to help him combat jet-lag. Ordinarily he doesn't need any help with his sleep, but when he is travelling through different time zones and he has to adjust quickly, then he will take one or two sleeping tablets over a couple of nights to help kick start his body to conform with local time(s). He is maybe prescribed 2-3 packs a year and always leaves a strip at home for me - just in case. He knows that I only take one when I am desperately tired, and my GP is aware that this is the case.
I know my GP would not even consider prescribing me sleep meds - he has said so. He is convinced that if I kick my depression and anxiety, then normal sleep will be restored.
BUT, if you are exhausted from lack of sleep, this exacerbates the anxiety and depression, which only then serves to further prevent lack of sleep ! How are we suppose to break out of this cycle. He says that if ADs or anti-anxiety meds are doing their work, then normal sleep will be restored.
Oh how I wish it were that flippin' easy !
Istherehope?
07-01-16, 21:25
If only it was that easy Sandie.
I hope the massage was good and that you didn't feel too nervy.
I'm doing ok I think. Woke up sweaty and with that dread feeling but it passed quite quickly against I do think something is working with the Mirt/Ven together.
Like you though I think Mirt on its own made things worse even after the normal side effects window. I have never felt the black despair/depression until I was on Mirt.
It's a shame your GP is so against sleep aids, especially as you seem very responsible. But I really hope he's helpful when you see him next week. I don't think there's any reason you should have to come off the low dose of Mirt if it's helping. Sleep is such an important factor in recovery.
Made the mistake of staying up late last night - we became quite engrossed in a film. Consequently, it screwed with my sleep and this morning I feel dreadful. Lights out at midnight, awake at 2 am, did get back to a shallow sleep, but awoke at 5 am with the most awful anxiety - really painful churning stomach and that awful tension in my chest.
Have already had to take a diazepam to help keep me calm. It has become very cold here in Kent overnight, and we have the plumbers here replacing radiators so the heating is off and as a consequence the house is cold. When I am cold I tense up which obviously just makes matters worse.
So today will inevitably not be such a good day.
I am still wondering if I might see the anxiety ease if I come off the Mirt completely - unsure if it can bee any worse.
Feeling quite low today.
---------- Post added at 09:54 ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 ----------
Have just had a call from Think Action confirming my first CBT appointment for next Thursday.
Next week is shaping up to be a busy week.
Hi Sandie, Is, Doze - and everyone!
Sandie - really sorry you're having a difficult day. I know only too well how poor sleep affects everything else. But ... I think you should take a bow. I saw a psychiatrist for the first time this morning, and he thinks ... yes ... the high dose of Mirt I am on could be disrupting my sleep. So I shall cut back down to 30 mgs from tonight - he gave me a prescription, as I only had 45 mg pills - with the aim of eventually tapering down to 15 mgs. I am concerned re. side-effects if I go from 45 mgs to 15 mgs in one-hit. I was on 30 mgs from the beginning of November until just before Christmas, and I have been on 45 mgs for just over two weeks now.
He has also put me on Pregabalin, an anti-anxiety med, but it will take three to four weeks to have an effect. I am going to taper down the Citalopram in a few weeks and switch to Venlafaxine
Istherehope?
08-01-16, 14:02
Big hugs to you Sandie, it's tough when you have a blip day and the stress of plumbers as well doesn't help.
Sounds like it's really hard to decide what to do about the Mirt, I wish someone had the answers. Trying to figure out what is best to do is also stressful...
I think though that whichever you decide you are on the right track, CBT is starting soon and might help and you are going to talk to your GP....
I really hope the day improves for you xx
---------- Post added at 14:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:59 ----------
Glad to hear you saw the psychiatrist at last A. Sounds like a lot of change re meds. I'm on venlafaxine and I think it was helpful and didn't have much in the way of side effects for me. I've heard good things about pregabalin too so I really hope it all helps. How are you feeling about it all?
Hugs to you too xx
A63 - thank you for your kind words. If you are happy to taper down gradually and slowly, then perhaps you could :
Cut a 45 mg in half (22.5) and add to half of a 30 mg (15mg) = total dose of 37.5 mg for a few nights.
When you are happy to reduce further, go down to a 30 mg tablet for a few nights.
From 30 mg you could go to 22.5 mg (ie, half of a 45 mg tablet).
From 22.5 mg, reduce to a 15 mg tablet. From here go to 7.5 mg (ie, half a 15 mg tablet).
At 7.5 mg I am generally getting a better night's sleep.
Today has been exceptionally bad - my worse in a very long time.
Hi Sandie and Is,
Really sorry to hear you are having a bad day, Sandie. I know how it feels. You think you are making progress, and - bam - down you go again. Tomorrow will be better. I had such a day yesterday, and today has been better, despite the sleep disruption.
I am going to follow your advice re. reducing Mirtazapine: thank you so much for it. I think a very slow taper is the safest course. I will let you know how I get on.
I will leave the Citalopram tapering until I have stabilised on the Pregabalin.
I am happy to do whatever it takes to get back to 'normal'. I will make medication changes and adjustments in order to do this.
I think that we all could make a formidable psychological team. I have learned much more from Sandie and others on this forum than I ever have from my GP.
Thanks once again, Sandie. I will follow your suggestions, and let you know how I get on. I have already invested in a pill-cutter!
Hugs to everyone. Things can only get better.
A xxx
Sorry to hear you had such a bad day Sandie. Wish there was something we could do for you.
Today has been awful - worse day in a long time. Have been researching Pregabalin and discussing it with hubby as a possible option for me. The anxiety today has been physically very painful and exhausting.
I need to discuss a way forward with my GP next week and this MIGHT be a possibility - if I don't yet feel able to go meds free.
If I have a good weekend, I might feel very different on Monday.
Istherehope?
08-01-16, 22:04
So sorry you've had an awful day Sandie :(
Pregabalin does seem to have helped a lot of people so I can see why you're thinking of it, its good to ink there may be some options if you need it.
Really hope the weekend is better for you xx
Sandie, Hope you had a better night last night, and that today is much better for you.
Is and Doze - hope the weekend goes well.
I went down to 37.5 mgs of the Mirt last night. Awoke twice - midnight and 1 am - and then slept through until 6 am. Feel better than I have for over two months. Hope it's onwards and upwards from now on. :yahoo:
So pleased you had a better night A63 - what a improvement hey ?
Sleep makes such a difference; I had a much better night last night, but still feel jittery this morning.
Presumably you took a half of a 45mg plus a 15 mg ? As you say - onwards and upwards !
Istherehope?
09-01-16, 11:19
That's good news A, sleep helps so much, keep us posted.
Glad you had a better night Sandie... Having the jitters is no fun though... Hugs to you xx
Glad to hear you had a better night Sandie. Do you find the Mirt you take in the evening helps you relax at all?
Hi Sandie, Is and Doze,
Glad everyone seems better today. :D:):D
I took a 30 mg Mirt and halved a 15 mg, as I discovered I still had a few 15 mg tabs 'in stock', bringing me up to 37.5 mg. I am going to stay on this dose for a few days and then drop down to 30 mg. I'm not sure about decreasing the dose further in the shorter term, as I am frightened of a return of the crippling depression, but I will drop from 30 mg when I am more stable.
I've decided not to taper down on the Citalopram until I have stabilised on a lower dose of Mirt, as it could be too much. I think I need to do more research before deciding whether to switch from Citalopram to Venlafaxine.
I have to say I feel slightly odd today - rather light-headed and slightly 'drugged'. This will be the effect of the Pregabalin, I think.
I am going out to have a meal with friends this evening. I could not have managed this even a week ago, so things are looking up.
Onwards and upwards!
Is - have just been out of the house for an hour or so and the jitters have calmed, so I am feeling a bit better. I actually feel a bit sleep today - despite having had some fresh air.
Doze - I don't find the Mirt especially relaxing. I tend to take it between 9 and 9.30 pm and hubby and I are getting to bed around 10.30. We are asleep fairly quickly. Last night was so much better than the previous - thank goodness.
Is - I suspect you are doing the right thing in tapering down very slowly and at your own pace. Do you take the Pregabalin at night ? I am thinking that IF I decide this might be a good med for me, - at a very low dose, then if it makes sense for me to take it at bedtime.
It seems we are all perhaps having a better day today - thank goodness for small mercies hey !
Glad you slept better Sandie, I was awake all night really fed up but have been staying with my parents so last night was my first night back home.
I have asked for Pregablin in the past and not one doctor will give me it saying it's not for anxiety, then why do some doctors prescribe it? There is nothing more I can try really.
Doc gave me some little blue antihistamine pills you can buy over the counter but I am sure they are making me more awake taking them and the Mirtazapine too. Gonna try without them tonight.
Thanks Karen - I have to say I am a little surprised that your GP has taken this attitude. If you have tried other meds for anxiety and they haven't worked, then Pregabalin sounds like a possible alternative.
I am not sure what will happen when I mention Pregabalin to him; he has been generally understanding but I have heard that there are cost implications with Pregabalin and if this is the case then it could be a barrier. Perhaps this is one of the reasons your GP has not prescribed it for you ?
What dose Mirtazapine are you currently taking Karen ?
Doze - I don't find the Mirt especially relaxing. I tend to take it between 9 and 9.30 pm and hubby and I are getting to bed around 10.30. We are asleep fairly quickly. Last night was so much better than the previous - thank goodness.
I guess I don't find it relaxing but I have found it helps settle my mind. I just wondered because you were really having such a bad day, maybe you could try taking a little to see if it brought your anxieties down. But hopefully you won't need to try that now.
So as yesterday went on, my day got worse, and by the evening my anxiety was the worse it has been for some while, and I was exhausted.
The physical drain is awful; that constant internal trembling which seems to affect all of the muscles - it's horrible. Didn't sleep properly either - I was awake at 2.20 am and all the horrible thoughts came flooding into my mind.
I can't believe that things have suddenly got this bad again and I am so hoping that the GP may be able to advise me tomorrow.
Hi Sandy,
Really sorry to hear that things have taken a downward turn. I do think it is a feature of this illness: you have a good day, and hope and pray that things are on the up, and then - bam - you dip. So it seems to go on. This has certainly been my experience.
Your physical side-effects sound very debilitating. I know from previous posts that you can't take beta-blockers. Would a slight increase in the diazepam help, as a temporary measure? Hopefully your GP can advise tomorrow.
I had a bad night, with frequent waking. We went to some friends for a meal yesterday evening, and I think a lot of food and booze, combined with not getting to bed until midnight, really affected my sleep. It seems you just can't win! A xx
A63 - horrible that you are paying the price for an evening of fun. This happened to me a week or so ago - a late night really upset my sleep.
I've had two bad days in a row now - Friday I took a 2mg diazepam to take the edge off, but yesterday I coped without. I really am concerned that I will become tolerant to them and I know with certainty that my GP will not write many more prescriptions for them, so I have been frugal with their use.
I am seeing him tomorrow and hope that when he sees that I haven't used one from the new pack he gave me on 12th December, he will be sympathetic about another way forward - possibly with pregabalin.
I have read on here that some GPs are not happy prescribing Pregabalin and I think it is a cost issue (I gather it is around £60 a month).
Feel a bit jittery this morning, but have planned some chores so hopefully will burn off this nervous energy.
Hope your day gets better too.
Hi Sandie,
I think you are being very sensible with the diazepam, and using them correctly. Would propranolol be an option?
I feel very similarly with regard to sleeping and anxiety meds. I know that if you take them habitually, you get used to them. Then you need more drug to get the same effect, and you are on a downward spiral to addiction.
I have been on pregabalin since Friday. Apparently it takes three to four weeks for it to have any effect. All I have noticed so far was some slight lightheadedness on Friday evening and Saturday morning, and one or two occasions of slight dizziness. That's been it. No drowsiness, which is another common side-effect. No effect at all on anxiety, but obviously it is very early days. The psychiatrist advised me to stop taking it if it had no effect in three to four weeks.
I spent yesterday doing housework and chores. I shall get out in the sunshine for a couple of hours now: it always helps.
Wishing us both a better day - and night!
A63 - I can't take propanalol because it is not suitable for asthmatics.
I will be very interested to learn how you get on with Pregabalin - what dose has your GP prescribed ? I had started another thread asking for advice about Pregabalin but it hasn't had much response.
If the GP thinks it is a good idea, then I will ask for the lowest possible dose. If it makes me drowsy and helps with my sleep, then I shall gradually wean off the 7.5 Mirtazapine I am currently taking.
I'm not asthmatic, although it does run in the family, but I couldn't get on with the propranolol. I was taking it to get rid of some mild physical anxiety symptoms, but I found that when it wore off I would get a spike of more intense anxiety. I've been better without it tbh.
Propanalol worked well for me 10 years ago, and I would have preferred to take it over the ADs which have been prescribed since last September, especially as my asthma hasn't been too bad, but the GP would not entertain the idea.
Hi Sandie,
I didn't realise that Propranol was not suitable for asthmatics. I suggested it for the physical symptoms of anxiety that you are experiencing, but obviously it is not an option for you.
I am on 75 mgs of Pregabalin twice a day: I take one tablet after breakfast, and another when I have my dinner in the evening. I will let you know how I get on with it. So far, two days in, all I have experienced is slight dizziness once or twice and occasional lightheadedness. These symptoms seem to have passed now. It may, of course, make absolutely no difference to me. I'll keep you posted.
I seem to have a generally high tolerance level, so it may be that your experience with Pregabalin is quite different, if you have it prescribed. A xx
Thank you A63 - I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow and if you could keep me posted day by day, then that would be good. Who knows, we could well be on a road to recovery together !
Hoping the best for the both of you.
Hope you get what you want from the Dr tomorrow S. It's not like you haven't throughly explored plenty of their suggestion and other possibilities, so hopefully they will be open to your input. If not you can always change surgeries and find a more agreeable GP.
Istherehope?
10-01-16, 21:04
Not been on here much while on my course but home now.
Sorry to see its been such a difficult weekend Sandie, I really hope your GP is helpful and you can find a way forward.
And it would be great if you and A63 were able to be on the road to recovery together, you've both been through enough suffering in my opinion.
I think I'm still a little better, but this week is my first normal week of work/study/school run etc since Christmas. It's 3 weeks tonight since I started Venlafaxine so I feel like this week will be a test of how it's going.
All the best to everyone for the week ahead xxx
Have been awake since a little after 4 am. Tired and as a consequence feeling shivery and body is trembling. GP appointment at 9.20 and hopefully we can discuss the possibility of Pregabalin.
Still a little unsure if this is the best way forward - I would ideally like to sort myself without meds, but it is becoming more and more difficult to live with this constant anxiety.
---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 ----------
So, next chapter of the story of managing my anxiety ! My GP, who I actually quite like and who sits and listens and is prepared to spend time with me, believes that Pregabalin is not the best med for my anxiety.
Despite my being an asthmatic, and because he feels my asthma is well controlled, he has now prescribed me Propanalol (which as some of you will be aware is a beta-blocker).
He is happy for me to continue with my 7.5 Mirtazapine at night, but has given me 3x40mg Prop daily.
He has suggested that initially I only take 2 x 40mg per day - at breakfast and then early evening, and as long as it does not exacerbate my asthma I can take one before bedtime. Ideally I need to allow 6 hours between doses.
Off course the advantage of Propanalol over Pregabalin or any other AD is that there are generally no start-up side effects and it can be stopped and started very easily, ie, if I stopped for a week and then had issues, I could start again, take for a few days and then stop again.
Apparently I need to allow 2 hours after the tablet to know if it is working properly, but if I wish I can supplement with diazepam.
I am not unhappy with this decision - the Propanalol worked for me 10 years ago, and if it hopefully works this time around, then so much the better. Of course one of the things which has been worrying me is what the stress/anxiety has been doing to my blood pressure. Knowing that I am now on a beta blocker gives me some reassurance that this should not not be an issue, and my BP should be controlled.
To be honest, I think my GP understands that I a trying to take a balanced and sensible approach to what is happening with my anxiety and feels that the moment I become concerned that my asthma might be exacerbated, I will know to stop the propanalol and contact him.
Next appointment in 4 weeks time.
GP did say I might find the Propanalol makes me a little sleepy. Great - especially if it helps me sleep at night, but as I said earlier, I shall continue with the 7.5 Mirt.
That all seems pretty reasonable Sandie. Sounds like in some ways it went better than you were expecting. You prescription of sorts also sounds similar to what my last GP said to me.
Well, I took a 40mg Prop around 11 am; have walked up to the vets and back (total an hour), hoovered through the house, and done one or two other chores. I had a bit of a headache, but put this down to tiredness and one paracetamol cleared my head.
I had a bad night last night and consequently was expecting a really bad day; BUT I don;t have the heart palpitations or the burning sensation across my chest, nor do I have the trembling or stomach churning . Early days - so let's wait and see, and of course, much will depend on how I sleep tonight.
Doze - Not sure if it went better than I expected, although I had a sneaky feeling that he wouldn't prescribe me Pregabalin and I do think it is a cost issue. BUT, the GP didn't dismiss me, suggest I try another AD or tell me that the issue is because I am not taking sufficient Mirt.
I have CBT on Thursday - still undecided how I feel about this, but prepared to give it a try, it's only 8-10 weeks of my life and if it can change how I look at things so that this doesn't happen again, or helps by giving me coping mechanisms, then it is worth the effort.
Istherehope?
11-01-16, 16:13
That all sounds like a good way forward Sandie, I'm glad it went well for you and I'm really glad you've felt better than you expected today.
If Propanalol works then it's infinitely better than an antidepressant in terms of side effects and withdrawal, here's hoping this is the start of recovery for you.
Glad you have CBT coming up this week. Really hoping it's helpful for you - there's a lot of research that suggests meds and talking therapy together is often the most effective way to tackle anxiety and depression.
The propranololololol should remove the physical side of things Sandie. It's a relatively easy med to get along with, you just need to try and get the dose balance right so it covers most of your day as I found when it wore off Was the only time I noticed it.
I am on a low dose Propanalol and the GP said I could increase/decrease the dosage as long as I left at least 6 hours in between.
Sitting watching TV and I suddenly realised that I could sense just a little bit of trembling returning - just a little over 6 hours after the first tablet ! I plan to leave it a bit longer before taking my second tablet so that it will take me through bedtime or the early hours. I shall not take one before bedtime for a few days, just to ensure it doesn't exacerbate my asthma - I don't want a respiratory failure in my sleep ! I suspect it will be fine, but best to be safe.
I have some real muscle fatigue in my arms, so I think tomorrow I need to start some arm exercises. I don't think I have been as inactive through a winter before and it really is beginning to make itself noticeable.
I do remember it being effective when I first took it 10 years ago. It is a bit annoying because when I mentioned Propanalol last September I was told quite emphatically by the first GP that I could not take it because of the asthma. Who knows, perhaps if I had been given it back then I might not have had such a rough time over the last 4+ months !
Hi Sandie,
Very glad to hear that your GP appointment went well. I hope you get real benefits from the Propranolol, and that, when combined with CBT, you see a real improvement. I think you will.
I had some severe dizziness last night, but I am sure it was my fault. I had had a few drinks, and I am not supposed to drink alcohol on my current regime. I shall cut it out this week and see if it lessens the occasional dizziness. I have no other effects from the Pregabalin, and it is making no difference to my mental state, but I have been told that it will take three-four weeks to have any effect; it may, of course, have no effect at all.
I had another poor night last week, with frequent waking. I am going to start on a recommended book - 'Say Goodnight to Insomnia', by Gregg Jacobs. I seem to have got 'stuck' in this pattern of frequent waking. I hope the book will help (I think it uses CBT techniques). Fingers' crossed!
Okay, so I know it is barely 24 hours since starting the Propanalol and maybe I was expecting too much, but after a promising start yesterday, I was rather hoping for a good night's sleep. How wrong was I !
Light out at 11 pm, awoke at 12.30. Drifted back into some sort of sleep for just over 2 hours awaking again at just before 3pm. Then awake at a little after 4 am. Each time I awoke it was because of adrenaline surges and stomach churning - the very thing the Propanalol is supposed to help prevent.
This morning I feel rubbish and I have already taken my first Propanalol - desperately hoping it will kick in quickly.
The GP has prescribed low dose (40mg); apparently they will take up to 2 hours to kick in and last around 6 hours. I can take up to 3 a day. But there is a longer lasting dose which is taken once a day and lasts 24 hours. I think if I can cope I will give it a week to see how it goes and then if it doesn't improve try to have a chat with the GP.
A63 - I understand why the GP hasn't given me Pregabalin and I am not unhappy with the Propanalol, but of course what I really want is something which will work and give e some relief
I might make a few enquiries on the Propanalol threads.
I have read so many articles/books about how to kick insomnia, but I think for those of who us suffer with anxiety, much of what is written doesn't apply. I am not an insomnia sufferer - my sleep this time last year was fabulous; my sleep problems are because of my anxious state which was caused by a trauma.
Sometimes life just sucks - but it's better than the alternative.
Hi Sandie,
Really sorry to hear you had a poor night. I know how it is.
I think your approach re. Propranolol is very sensible.
I agree with you re. books and strategies concerning insomnia. I have never been a particularly good sleeper, but when I am more-or-less OK, I sleep more-or-less OK. When I am not, my sleep pattern goes out the window. And you are quite right: much of what is written about insomnia does not apply for anxiety sufferers.
Much of what you wrote about your experience on 30 mgs of Mirt really rang bells with me. I think the high dose of Mirt I was put on at the beginning of last November really interfered with my sleep pattern, to say the least, and the psychiatrist I saw at the end of last week concurred with this view. I will think twice before agreeing to an increase in dosage in the future.
Yes, life can really suck; but yes, it is better than the alternative.
A x
Thanks A63 for your support. It has been a strange day - not good but I've had much worse. I do think the Propanalol might be a good way forward for me, but only if we can somehow get the dosage right and if it doesn't totally destroy my sleep.
I am actually now sitting on the fence about the Mirt. I am only taking 7,5 Mirt so medically speaking other than supposedly improving my sleep (which it might be doing on occasions - but not regularly), it probably isn't doing much for me so I should probably be thinking about coming off. But at the same time I really don't want to make an existing bearable situation worse - especially as I know my husband will be leaving soon for a lengthy stint abroad, and it is always quite lonely when he is away.
What dose of Mirt do you currently take ? I really do think that GPs are stumbling in the dark a bit when it comes to prescribing ADs and they readily increase too much too soon - it wouldn't hurt to take it more gently.
I start CBT on Thursday; really hoping that if the meds can do their part, then CBT will easier and I might actually get my head together so that I can eventually kick this anxiety into a far corner.
How are you getting on ?
Hi Sandie,
I have just managed to lose a lengthy reply to you. :ohmy:
I am not doing too badly. I am certainly much, much better than I was. I hope to return to work on a part-time basis next week.
I would stabilise on the Propranolol before thinking about kicking the Mirt. I know you are on a very low dose, but it may be making a difference, and it could be too much to eliminate it at this stage. I am no expert, of course.
I am on 37.5 mgs of Mirt at the moment. I reduced from 45 mgs last Friday.
I was on 15 mgs of Mirt until the end of October. I became severely anxious and depressed, and the GP upped me to 30 mgs. This is when my weird insomnia began. I would sleep for two or three hours, and then be wide awake. This, of course, made the anxiety and depression much worse. So I went on.
I was on 30 mgs for seven weeks. My severe depression and anxiety didn't alleviate. I was upped to 45 mgs shortly before Christmas. To be fair, the top dose did work on the depression, but I was left with the insomnia. I saw the psychiatrist last Friday, and he thought there was a definite link between the increased dose of Mirt and the insomnia. I am slowly tapering on the Mirt now, with the ultimate aim of ... well, getting back to 15 mgs!
With the benefit of hindsight, and if I had known then what I know now, I would have increased my dose of Citalopram and left the Mirt at 15 mgs.
I've still got the insomnia, but it has improved, and I feel much less tired, although I continue to feel somewhat jaded.
I hope the Propanolol works for you, Sandie.
A x
Shazamataz
12-01-16, 20:59
Hi Sandie, I really do hope things improve for you.These meds can sure kick us around and make things worse rather than better.
I still find it difficult to comprehend how the same drugs can be used for anxiety as for depression as surely one needs calmed down and the other stimulated? I certainly was stimulated by the citalopram and it actually caused me to become depressed on top of the anxiety. Though whether that was the drug itself or me just getting weighed down by the side effects. It really was unbearable.
Are you still having trouble with the trembling? That was what was really doing me in as I got surges of it every time I tried to rest.
Three nights on Mirt now for me (and off the citalopram) and while I don't feel 'good' I am certainly functioning which I wasn't before. I'm sticking with the 7.5 dose for now as don't need anything that will wind me up. It gets me to sleep but I've still been having restless nights, only when I do wake I'm not panicked about it and can happily lie there and just wait for sleep to return.
I am also on a beta blocker (bisoprolol) which is one that doesn't affect asthma which is why my GP prescribed it to me a couple of years back.
Istherehope?
12-01-16, 21:15
Hi all.
Sorry you had such a rough night Sandie, I hope tonight is better and that you can get the Propanalol to work in the night as well as the day. Good luck if you do decide to wean off the Mirt completely - though can understand if you decide against it in the end.
Good to hear that things are a bit better for you A63, I hope going back to work is a really positive step for you next week.
And glad to hear you're a bit better too Shazamataz...I hope your body can keep recovering from the Citalopram. Getting restful nights should help that along.
I'm doing pretty well on the Mirt/Venlafaxine combo at the moment..though wish I wasn't on two drugs that are so notoriously difficult to withdraw from. It is really good to not feel so terrified and hopeless all the time though, so I shall focus on being grateful for now!
A63 - so it seems that Mirt is again the likely culprit for some serious sleep deprivation and increased agitation/anxiety.
I honestly can't believe that GPs aren't aware of these and how much it can damage a sufferer; why on earth do they persist in prescribing at such high doses and then want to increase rapidly, the moment a patient says they feel worse ?
As I have said before, weaning from Mirt as slowly and gradually as possible has to be the right way forward. It's not easy, (don't I know it !).
Last night I didn't take my 7.5 Mirt; if the Propanalol helps during the day, then I think I shall try to take Mirt on alternate nights for a couple of weeks and then wean off completely. (This might be the plan now but it could change).
Last night I slept well - but I took one of my husband's sleeping tablets and it knocked me out for 5 hours.
Shazamataz - it sounds as though you are on a good mix of meds. I wonder why my GP didn't prescribe the Bisoprololol if it suitable for ashtmatics ? Did you weant slowly from the Citalopram and how long were you on it ?
Is - I have responded to you in some length on Doze's thread - but as long as you are doing well on the Mirt/Ven combo, then best not to even think about withdrawal.
If we were diagnosed with a physical illness which required meds throughout our life we wouldn't think twice about it, so why do we worry if meds which are working for anxiety/depression stay with us for life ? As long as they are working and doing no harm, why do we think about withdrawal ? Yes ideally we would not want to be on meds but sometimes these things happen. If the Mirtazapine or the Sertraline had worked for me, lifted my depression/anxiety and restored my sleep, then I would happily have just taken the pills for as long as possible !
The only reason I was to go meds-free is because they are not working - and in fact for some time I am convinced they made me worse.
Hi Sandie,
I very much agree with what you say. It seems to be somewhat chicken and egg with me: I can't tell how much my two months' worth of considerable sleep disruption and agitation were down to the Mirt, and how much would have happened anyway, if you get me. I am sure, though, that some of the debilitating insomnia was down to the Mirt. It is just too much of a coincidence.
Now I have another problem on my hands! I'm having side-effects from the Pregabalin: it's causing wooziness and some lack of coordination, usually two-three hours after I have taken it. Last night I nearly fell over in the shower; as it was I knocked into the shower hose and dislodged it, whereupon the shower head fell and whacked me on the bridge of the nose, causing a cut and bruising. This morning - again about two hours after I had taken the Pregabalin - I had some muscle weakness in my right arm and hand, while ironing. As a result, I lost control of the iron and got a small burn on my inner right hand.
I had drunk no alcohol last night (or this morning!). Therefore the wooziness/muscle weakness was almost certainly down to the Pregabalin.
I don't know whether to continue with it, and hope that the side-effects are temporary, or to knock it on the head now, only five days in, because it will become more difficult to withdraw from the longer I am on it.
I am continuing on 37.5 mgs of Mirt. I dropped from 45 mgs last Friday, and I have had no unpleasant side-effects that I am aware of. I shall stay on 37.5 mgs for another two or three weeks, and then drop to 30 mgs. I think if I reduce extremely slowly, I should be OK.
Hope you are OK, Is and Doze.
Sandy - I couldn't agree more with you.
A x
A63 - We seem to be very much in agreement in respect of the Mirt. I am now alternating my nights on the 7.5 mirt, and I think your very gradual and measured approach to withdrawing is more than sensible. Presumably you also believe that the Mirtazapine has not been of any benefit at all to your depression/anxiety ?
The propanalol is calming my heart - the palpitations have slowed right down and I am much calmer during the day, but the night-times are still not good - not so much heart palpitations, but terrible stomach churning, consequently I am still not getting a decent night's sleep - I am shattered. Of course feeling so flippin' tired all of the time is depressing !
Mmm - so the Pregabalin is causing a few initial side-effects ? What dose are you are and is there any way you can perhaps half this to see if the side effects are reduced ? Of course any GP would say that 5 days into a med is not a long enough trial. but if the side effects are creating as many problems as they might resolve then it becomes very difficult to continue. The most worrying thing about these sort of side effects are if you have to drive because it could be considered unsafe.
Having said that, I do understand your concerns about not wanting to go so far with the Pregabalin and then have the awful problem of withdrawal - especially as you are having to do this with the Mirtazapine.
Of course this is all made worse by the fact that we are already 'fragile' because of our anxiety/depression.
How are you sleeping at the moment ?
Hi Sandie,
I would say that the Mirt has undoubtedly helped my depression. I was on 30 mgs for seven weeks and saw no real benefit to the depression. I went up to 45 mgs just before Christmas, and my depression certainly improved. What I don't know, though, is how much the improvement was down to a natural pulling out of the severe depression, and how much was down to the Mirt. It's chicken and egg again.
I am not aiming to come off Mirt completely - I think that would be unrealistic in my case - but I am looking to come down to a lower dose. I think this is really achievable.
Sandie, I really sympathise with your difficult nights. I wonder what is causing the stomach churning? The propranolol obviously works well on the palpitations, but isn't doing anything for your stomach. Would it be worth a call to your GP to discuss this? My surgery has a facility where a doctor will call you within an hour.
I don't know how to proceed with the Pregabalin, in truth. I am on 75 mgs twice a day. They are the sort of tablets which dissolve into powder/grains if you halve them, but I shall have a look and give it a try if possible.
I don't drive, so that is not an issue, but my job needs a lot of concentration, and I shall return to it on a part-time basis next week. I have read that Pregabalin can cause concentration and memory problems, so this is obviously a concern.
My sleep is certainly better than it was. Last night I was awake just before 2 am, but I got back to sleep. Eventually I hope the night-time waking will depart. Your experiences on 30 mgs Mirt certainly sounded very, very similar to mine when I first went up: waking up after two or three hours and finding it very difficult if impossible to get back off to sleep. I think I have probably adjusted to the higher dose now, which is probably why the sleep has improved, although it is still far from back to normal.
A x
Istherehope?
14-01-16, 18:33
Hi everyone...good to hear the Propanalol is still helping you in the day Sandie but the nights sound horrible and then being tired really doesn't help recovery much. I hope it settles soon for you.
And it sounds like a bit of a dilemma for you with the Pregabalin A, I hate those kind of decisions. Glad sleep is better now.
I sometimes wonder if I would have been better off sticking with 15mg Mirt...I was only at that dose for a week so I don't really know if it would have done much but looking back I feel that at 30 and 45mg it caused me to experience very dark depression as well as the original anxiety. Thankfully it never messed with my sleep though.
Anyway all the best to you both xx
Hi Sandie, Is and Doze,
I've been thinking about your difficult nights, Sandie. I am relatively fortunate in experiencing few physical symptoms from my anxiety, although I did have a couple of panic attacks before Christmas, and they were extremely unpleasant. I know you are reluctant to go down this particular road, and I sympathise, but would diazepam help the stomach problems? I know you don't want to get addicted, and I understand your feelings. I am sure I would feel very similarly myself. The diazepam is just a thought.
I have halved the Pregabalin. I shall only take one 75 mg tablet an hour before bed now. With any luck, this should allow me to avoid any physical mishaps from now on. In addition to the wooziness and decrease in physical coordination, I felt 'not myself' yesterday; i.e. I felt somewhat on another planet. I think this was down to the Pregabalin.
Also, by putting myself on a low dose now, it will be easier to withdraw from, when the time comes. I have read - I think you said this, Sandie - that Pregabalin is expensive. This means that I will probably be asked to withdraw from it sooner rather than later.
I expect you are very busy, Is. Things seem to be much better for you than they were even comparatively recently. It's very good news. I hope you are OK, Doze.
A x
Istherehope?
14-01-16, 21:27
Hi, yes I have been quite busy. I think outwardly I'm functioning normally but probably feel about 50% back to normal inside - you're right that is so much better than a few weeks ago and it's good to remind myself how far I've come, as today was a slightly tougher day but if I think about it it's still nowhere near as bad as every day through November and December.
I hope halving the dose works for you - sounds a bit frightening to lose coordination. These meds are strange and tricky things aren't they. All the best with the lower dose tonight.
Shazamataz
15-01-16, 00:25
Shazamataz - it sounds as though you are on a good mix of meds. I wonder why my GP didn't prescribe the Bisoprololol if it suitable for ashtmatics ? Did you weant slowly from the Citalopram and how long were you on it ?
The only reason I was to go meds-free is because they are not working - and in fact for some time I am convinced they made me worse.
Not such a good mix as not doing so well again (after three days of improvement. Went straight off the citalopram as only on it 3.5 weeks (of torture!) and the doctor said it was best just to stop. Not sure why they put me on Mirt which also activates seretonin after telling me they thought I was having negative effects of too much serotonin! (should probably explain and update in my own thread!)
I have always understood beta blockers are a bit dangerous for asthmatics which is why I was never given them but a couple years back my GP discovered bisoprolol was okay as it was more specific and didn't affect the lungs, or something like that. Remember, though, a lot of what we are given depends on what is funded so that may be why you get propanolol in England?
I am verging on going med free as well as have had enough of battling drug effects!
Hi everyone.
Interesting to hear how everyone is managing to move on quite positively with their meds. Shaz - have just replied on your thread, and can see why the hospital suggest you remove one of the night-time meds, although the 7,5 Mirt may be helping you sleep.
I am now managing 7.5 Mirt on alternative nights and the Propanalol is certainly helping with the panic and anxiety. However, the depression still exists - I have little motivation for anything, and am still not enjoying much in the way of quality rest or sleep.
I awake early and all 'those' thoughts go whirling through my mind; all the 'what-if?' scenarios.
I started CBT yesterday - have to be honest, I am not entirely sure how well this is going to work for me, but I have to be open about it and try it.
A63 - I think your approach with the Pregabalin is sensible; starting at a lesser dose hopefully may still help how you feel, but will be much easier to withdraw from should the need arise. I should hope that just because the Pregabalin is expensive you won't be pushed into withdrawing too soon.
Is - How is the Mirt/Ven combo working for you ? I know you were not happy with the Mirt on its own but sense that the combination is working well.
Not sure where Doze is - haven't seen any posts from him for the last day or so.
My husband is currently away again, albeit only for a few days thank goodness, so I suspect this is not helping my frame of mind, I feel really low today.
Istherehope?
15-01-16, 16:39
Hi Sandie, sorry to hear you're feeling so low...depression can just suck the life out of everything can't it...and I understand the "what if?" scenarios too, it's as if those thoughts lock onto your brain and you can't shake them even though you know it won't help.
I do think I'm doing better with the combination of Mirt/Ven, I think I was the lowest I'd ever been before Christmas and now maybe I'm 40-50% back to normal. Still not really enjoying life though and have to be careful not to think about certain things as I can get anxious very easily.
We're at a wedding tomorrow and there will be a few people from the church I went to for 20 years. We left a year and a half ago due to some difficult experiences with the leader and some of the people at this wedding used to be close friends but aren't now....That's definitely triggering a bit of anxiety for me at the moment.
Sounds like the CBT experience was not as good as you hoped yesterday? I guess it's early days and it's good that you're keeping an open mind but it's not for everyone and it can really depend on where you're at and what the therapist is like.
Anyway, hugs to you Sandie, wish I could magic your husband home right now!
Have had a few very rough days. Although the Propanalol is helping with the racing heart, it wears off quite quickly and because I am not sleeping properly, I am so very tired and I always have bad days after little sleep.
I haven't had a Mirtazapine for about 5 days. I had weaned down to 7.5mgs, which I have been on since Christmas day, so thought I might as well stop taking them, but now beginning to wonder if I shouldn't restart.
Feeling really jittery today - have even thought about taking a diazepam.
Hi, I was given Mirtazapine on 17th Dec. The after effects were horrible for me.
I stopped all last weekend.
So, I had to resort to a diazepam - really could not cope this morning because I was so jittery. The diazepam has helped and I am much calmer now. Just taken the second propanalol of the day and after our son has left to return to London, will take a short walk with the dog before a quiet afternoon in front of the TV. I am absolutely exhausted.
Hi Sandie,
Very sorry to hear you're struggling.
Don't worry about the diazepam: you really do your best. I can empathise with not wanting to take it, but it seems you've reached a point today where it's the lesser of two evils.
Would it be worth taking your husband's sleeping tabs once or twice a week? Again, I fully understand why you want to limit their use, but again, it could be the lesser of two evils. Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the Mirt: 7.5 mgs is an extremely low dose. If, all things considered, you did better on 7.5 mgs of mirt every other day than you do without it, then I would seriously consider reintroducing it.
I am lucky in that I experience relatively few physical symptoms of anxiety. I still have the sleep disruption, but it is much better than it was. Lack of sleep is a killer, as I know full well. I wouldn't recommend zopiclone, though: I found it made me feel very depressed and 'hungover', although it certainly put me to sleep (it was the only med that 'worked' for sleep for me). Other people take it with no real side-effects, but if you're generally quite sensitive to these meds, then it is quite likely to have very unpleasant side-effects for you.
Thinking of you.
A x
---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:22 ----------
Sandie,
I meant to say just now that some people find antihistamines - Benadryl and Phenergan - very effective as a sleep aid, and they are available over the counter. I have tried Phenergan, and it had no apparent effect, but some people find Phenergan or Benadryl quite effective.
A x
Thanks for your words of support A63 - I am a bit calmer now, but it has not been a good day so far - despite having our son at home overnight and he is always a good distraction.
He has now left to return to London, dishwasher is on and a load of washing done and in the tumble dryer. Dog is exercised and we are settling down in front of th TV. Hubby is home until tomorrow night and then away until Saturday morning.
I have Phenergan upstairs, but have been wary about taking it as well as the Mirtazapine. Tonight I think I might leave the diazepam by the bed and if I wake at 2 am and can't get back to sleep, I might take one - it might help.
How are things with you ?
Istherehope?
17-01-16, 17:15
I'm so sorry you've had such a difficult few days Sandie, the lack of sleep must be horrible. I'm glad the diazepam has helped and maybe it might do the trick at night. It seems the Propanalol isn't doing enough for you at the moment.
You're doing so well to keep going in incredibly difficult circumstances, I'm sorry you're suffering so much, hugs to you xx
I think tonight I shall have a small glass of wine and then before bedtime one of hubby's sleeping tablets - hopefully manage a bit more then 3-4 hours sleep. I have had one diazepam today so would prefer not to take a second, even if it is overnight.
I am going to call the GP tomorrow to see if he can perhaps alter the dose of propanalol to something which will keep working overnight; waking in the early hours with stomach churning and that heavy feeling on my chest is horrible, and the propanalol, while it is meant to be taken every 6 hours, only actually manages to keep working for around 5 hours. I keep to the schedule though, and have to manage to jitteriness until time for the next dose.
Thanks Is, - how are things with you at the moment ?
Hi Sandie,
I hope you had a much better night last night, Sandie. I agree with Is: I think the Propranolol isn't quite doing its job. I think you should call your GP to discuss increasing your dose, as you say. It's so hard to manage on 3-4 hours sleep, as I well know.
Hopefully the glass of wine and sleeping tablet gave you a couple more hours last night. You have my complete sympathy.
What's the latest on the CBT?
I am generally doing much better. I return to work tomorrow, which will no doubt be a shock to the system after over two months' absence.
I go on with high levels of anxiety, but this is me: I have always been an anxious person. I am still on one 75 mg Pregabalin tablet, which I take an hour before bed; I am unclear about whether to reinstate a morning dose, because with any luck the wooziness and muscle weakness were 'start up' problems. However, I need to be very mentally alert to do my job, and it requires a lot of concentration; I have read that Pregabalin can affect memory and concentration, so I will probably stick to the one tablet at night and attempt to deal with the high anxiety through non-drug means.
Thinking of you, and very much hoping you have a better day today, Sandie.
A x
Istherehope?
18-01-16, 09:47
Hi Sandie, I'm doing kind of ok...I think I've plateaued at the moment, and whilst gradual recovery is to be expected I think I get scared that I'm going to slip downwards again. Need to take it a day at a time but feeling a bit fragile and anxious this morning.
I'm being discharged by the crisis team on Wed, I think I'm a bit apprehensive about that too.
How are you today? Did the sleeping tablet help last night? Thinking of you xx
The sleeping tablet helped and I got some more sleep - thank goodness, because I had a phone call at 7 am from my brother who is poorly. Had to drive over to his place, where I have spent the whole day, and he has been admitted to hospital tonight.
All very worrying but it has meant I have had to focus on someone else instead of me - which is not a bad thing. He has advanced COPD and GP thinks he has an infection, as well as having started with swollen ankles, feet and lower legs - all part of the heart problems.
Hubby has now left for Belgium and I am on my own again until the weekend. I have no idea how long my brother will be in hospital - which is about an hour's drive for me, but I suspect my time will now be taken up with having to go to and from his home and the hospital. He lives alone - has never married, and other than and 83 year old aunt, I am his only relative.
I suspect it will be another sleeping tablet for me tonight.
I've managed on the propanalol today and haven't needed to resort to a diazepam - nor did I take a Mirtazepine last night, so it's now a week since I took my last 7.5 Mirt. I have another GP appointment on Thursday to review the Propanalol, and I am hoping he will prescribe a longer lasting version of the Propanalol.
---------- Post added at 19:44 ---------- Previous post was at 19:19 ----------
Is - sorry too hear that you think you might have plateaued, and yes you are right, when this happens it is all too easy to think that it is a backward step. The road to recovery sometimes seems like three steps forward and two steps backward.
Have you felt that the Crisis Team have helped you and is there some way you can still stay in touch with them in a less formal way ? I know how awful it is when you feel you have lost that little bit of extra support - I hate it when hubby leaves for his travel - as he has done this evening.
I think that is why we turn to the online support groups - it helps prevent some of the sense of isolation - knowing that we can talk to someone who understands.
How are the meds at the moment ?
---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------
A63 - I have an appoimtment with the GP on Thursday to discuss the Propanalol and the possibility that I might have extended release propanalol - although I want to do some research on a couple of other beta blockers which are considered better than propanalol and which might help with sleep.
How was your first day back at work, and how do you think the Pregabalin is working out for you ?
Shazamataz
18-01-16, 20:47
Sandie, so sorry to hear about your brother. The only good thing is that looking after someone else cane be a good way to distract from our own struggles!
I'm with you on the sleep thing. 7.5 mirtazipine has done nothing for my sleep and I am up and down all night. Last night I resorted to taking a zopiclone at a bout midnight and actually slept until after 5 - longest stretch I've had in a couple of months!
I upped to 15 mg after a week and spent yesterday very shakey and trembling and had no sleep at all.
Starting to give up on having any help with medication and may end up having to go it alone.
Seeing my GP today.
Istherehope?
18-01-16, 21:33
Sounds like a tough day for you Sandie - though I can relate to focussing on someone else being a bit helpful. Can't be easy though, especially if you're pretty much the only relative he has.
I have definitely felt helped by the crisis team - the main benefit was that it gave me access to a psychiatrist within five days of being referred. I think I feel a bit concerned at the moment that I am now on two antidepressants and I'm not sure that my GP will be comfortable making any adjustments if it is necessary. Meds wise I think the Venlafaxine has helped my mood but as I've plateaued I'm wondering if I might want to increase the Ven and drop down on the Mirt as it has only helped me for sleep. I'm currently on 30mg and could probably get away with going to 15mg as that would be better for sleep anyway. It's something I wish I could discuss with a psychiatrist. My GP is very good but I get the feeling she feels a bit out of her depth with me. I have been referred for assessment by the community mental health team so maybe I will be able to talk to someone about it - not sure how long I will wait for that though.
Good to hear things are improved for you A, though it sounds like anxiety levels are still fairly high. will be thinking of you with work tomorrow, I hope it goes well.
Sorry to hear things haven't improved for you Shaz - I can see why you might want to give up on medication, it just seems to be making your suffering worse. I hope your GP is helpful today.
And I hope you can get somewhere with either different beta blockers or longer acting Propanalol Sandie. Definitely hoping that there is something out there that won't mess so much with your sleep.
Shaz - what is your current meds routine ? Is it just the Mirtazapine ? In my opinion Mirt is one of those meds which if it works at 7.5 for sleep for most people and at higher doses for anxiety and sleep, then that is great ..... but it is rare.
To be honest, with all that has happened to me in the last 6 months and with what is going on at the moment, it would would surprising if I didn't have some degree of anxiety. I still believe that if I could get some sleep on a regular basis then I could cope.
Is - I can see why you felt that the Crisis team has helped. I know it is not a good thing to have this level of support on a long term basis, (because of over-reliance), but when you feel they have been such a help it would be lovely to know they were there in the background 'just in case.'
Hi Everyone,
Very sorry to hear about your brother, Sandy. As others have said, perhaps the only 'good' thing about it is that it focusses the mind externally.
I am now back at work and doing well so far. It felt like the middle of the night when I got up, though (6.30 am). It was just getting light as I left the house!
I find Mirt quite a puzzle. I was increased to 30 mgs (from 15 mgs) at the end of October. It did nothing for seven weeks, apart from create more sleep disruption than I have ever experienced, and that by a long chalk. After seven weeks, the Mirt was increased to 45 mgs. I did begin to feel a bit better about a week before this increase, but I can't tell whether my improvement was due to a natural pulling-out process; to a slight increase in Citalopram (20 mgs to 30 mgs); to the increase in the Mirt, or to a combination of all three. I've now reduced to 37.5 mgs of Mirt with no ill-effects, and aim to reduce to 30 mgs by the end of this month.
I think it took 7-8 weeks for my system to adjust to the increased Mirt.
The seven weeks of severe sleep disruption were among the most unpleasant I have ever spent. I really, really empathise with Sandie and Shazmataz. Hope you get some joy with the GP on Thursday, Sandie. Keep on fighting. Is, I think you have very good treatment in your part of the world. You seem much, much better than you were before Christmas.
Better get back to work!
A x
Istherehope?
19-01-16, 18:28
Glad work was going well A, hope the rest of the day was good and hope you can rest well this evening.
How has your day been Sandie? I really hope you were able to sleep after all that went on yesterday. And yes, it does sound like most people would be fairly anxious after all that you've been through and are going through. It's such a shame you've had such dreadful experiences with ADs on top of it all.
Shazamataz
19-01-16, 20:50
Shaz - what is your current meds routine ? Is it just the Mirtazapine ? In my opinion Mirt is one of those meds which if it works at 7.5 for sleep for most people and at higher doses for anxiety and sleep, then that is great ..... but it is rare.
I'm still on 7.5 Mirt, weaning off Olanzapine (which was supposed to help with sleep but didn't, plus it has a huge side effect profile so I'm not happy taking it). Was told I could just stop but reluctant to do anything drastic as my system doesn't seem to cope well with sudden med changes. Down to half a tablet from 1.5 tabs and will stop in a couple of days.
I take a beta blocker in the mornings and am also weaning off diazepam (down to 5mg a day from 8-9).
The diazepam is the concerning one as I have always had it as a back up for emergencies but now, after 3 months, it has no effect and I am simply taking it to avoid withdrawals. It scares me that I can't use it if I'm having a bad day once in a while. Like tomorrow I haver to go into work to speak with two bosses and the personnell lady about my situation as all of my leave runs out next week. Not ready to go back yet though so feeling very apprehensive about the meeting.
Slept better last night but took a while to get there as have a bit of a bug (chesty thing) and was up coughing until 1 am, but that seems to have lifted quite a bit this morning. Time of the month, also, so that doesn't help as I always feel more edgy a couple of days leading up and the first couple of days. Tomorrow should be better.
Oh well done for cutting the Valium down, I did it and was ok. I was also on Lorazepam this year (for past two years) and had to come off it but they put me on Mirtazapine and it's not ever made me sleep, I'm tapering off it now as I just feel depressed all the time on it.
I was petrified of coming off Lorazepam as I was on 2mg a day which is like 20mg of Diazepam. It was hard at first but now I don't think about it anymore. But have not felt right yet since though have lost both my American bf (he went back) and my ex husband took my son off me in December saying I had been too ill too long so I am in the middle of a custody battle with no lawyer. His mother is paying for him and in court in December, the judge walked all over me, he was totally unsympathetic that I suffer with depression and anxiety, so life is pretty crap right now xxx
Istherehope?
21-01-16, 20:02
Sorry to hear how tough things are for you Karen :hugs:
How's everyone else doing?
Hey Is, I'm having a pretty ok day.
Istherehope?
21-01-16, 21:43
That's good to hear. I'm doing better today - crisis team are keeping me on for another week and I'm contemplating increasing the Venlafaxine, but going to see how tomorrow goes before I decide.
Really hope you're ok Sandie...hope things aren't too bad with your brother x
I am not doing so well and yesterday was a very bad day. I only had 3 hours sleep and it was bitterly cold here and I struggled to get warm all day.
I saw my brother on Wednesday and it really hit me that he is on borrowed time. I lost dad 17 years ago, and my mum 2 years ago, so it is just me and my brother Barry.
Anxiety has been sky high and hubby isn't here so I feel very alone. I saw the GP yesterday and he is doing his very best to be supportive. He has even suggested that I am not using the diazepam to full effect and that I shouldn't be so reluctant to take them. He has also said that I can increase my Propanalol by one dose should I feel the need.
Last night I managed 5 hours sleep, so I feel a bit better today, but I am still struggling to get motivated to do anything.
Shazamataz
22-01-16, 09:13
Sorry to hear that you are struggling Sandie, though I must say 5 hours sleep sounds pretty good to me right now.
I upped my mirtazipine last night from 7.5 to 15 (doctor insisted) and had a terrible night with little sleep and woke this morning from one of my periods of dozing off and felt simply awful with a rapid heartrate that just wouldn't settle. It's been quite high all day, that said my normal heartrate is quite high anyway.
Just feeling quite discouraged but will try again tonight - off to bed in a few minutes.
We don;t have 15 mg tablets here in NZ so I've been cutting into quarters and tonight have taken a quarter (7.5) and another half of a quarter and will see how I go. Certainly much improved without the citalopram anyway.
I've also managed more today than I have in a while and done more driving than I have in ages, so baby steps.
Also, I had a meeting with work and they are giving me 6 weeks added leave, unpaid, but keeping my job open for me until then, so have some motivation now to get sorted sooner rather than later!
---------- Post added at 22:13 ---------- Previous post was at 22:07 ----------
Oh well done for cutting the Valium down, I did it and was ok. I was also on Lorazepam this year (for past two years) and had to come off it but they put me on Mirtazapine and it's not ever made me sleep, I'm tapering off it now as I just feel depressed all the time on it.
I was petrified of coming off Lorazepam as I was on 2mg a day which is like 20mg of Diazepam. It was hard at first but now I don't think about it anymore. But have not felt right yet since though have lost both my American bf (he went back) and my ex husband took my son off me in December saying I had been too ill too long so I am in the middle of a custody battle with no lawyer. His mother is paying for him and in court in December, the judge walked all over me, he was totally unsympathetic that I suffer with depression and anxiety, so life is pretty crap right now xxx
Oh, that's a lot to deal with Karen! The sleep with Mirtazipine has been such a disappointment after reading so many people saying it knocks them out for a good ten hours a night! No such luck for me. I'm no longer waking up in panic, so either the Mirt is doing something (even though I'm only still on a tiny dose) or it's actually coming off the citalopram that's been the most beneficial.
The valium thing is hard because I no longer have something to deal with emergency anxiety. Because I ended up on it for three months it basically does nothing so I'm just taking it to avoid any withdrawal effects. GP insisted I not increase my dose while things are settling as then I'll have more to withdraw from. Determined to do it though and learn to deal with the anxiety better using my own resources.
Hi Everyone,
I have just managed to lose a long post! Grrrr!
Karen, that's such a lot to deal with. Are you sure you should reduce the Mirt, given how difficult things are? Can your GP suggest any other med(s)?
Sandie, really sorry about your brother. I have had a lot of family bereavements in my time, and I know how hard it is. I think you're doing very well in the circumstances. I hope the increased dose of Propanolol really helps.
Is, all sounds quite positive. I'm struck by how much more input you get from mental health services in Leicestershire than here in Oxfordshire.
Shaz, as you say, baby steps. It might not be the Mirt that is giving you poor sleep, as you are on a low dose. I think it's always difficult to tease out the extent to which our problems are caused by our own state of mind, and how much are caused by wrong doses of medication, or the wrong medication.
I'm OK. I still wake up around 1 or 2 am, but I get back to sleep, so that is a massive improvement on a few weeks ago. I found Tuesday and Wednesday back at work really difficult. I work in cold old warehouses and Tuesday and Wednesday were bitterly cold here; when I left the house early on Wednesday morning it was -7 C! I spent the two days trying to get warm. My job is very anxiety-provoking, as it is all about producing as much work as possible in the time available, so by Wednesday my anxiety had rocketed. Fortunately - very fortunately - I now work part-time.
Not at work today. All good wishes to everyone. A x
Istherehope?
22-01-16, 17:18
Sounds really tough for you Sandie, must be so hard knowing your brother is so unwell, you have my utmost sympathy. I'm glad your GP is being supportive, but it sounds like you are really suffering. Is your husband back this weekend?
And that's good news about your job Shaz...I hope being unpaid doesn't add to your stress - well done for doing the meeting, it can't have been easy. I hope you get more sleep tonight though.
And good to hear from you A63, sounds like it was tough going being at work. I wouldn't cope too well with the kind of pressure it sounds like your job puts you under either. I wish we could take the pressures out of life a bit. I'm glad your sleep is better. Are you still taking pregabalin and do you think it's helping?
I've found today a bit tough going with anxiety so I'm going to increase Venlafaxine from tonight. Have started taking some fish oil each day in the hopes it might do something too. Also found a free online mindfulness course courtesy of MyNameIsTerry so I might try to get disciplined enough to do it. Really want to do everything I can to get well...feels a bit difficult today though and really I would like to hibernate I think!
Hugs to all on this thread xx
---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 17:01 ----------
Ps yes A, I definitely seem to do better than many with the crisis team in Leicester - it's definitely helped me cope better and sounds much better than your experience.
Hi Is,
Hugs to you too. You generally seem to be doing much better. It does seem to be two steps forward and one step back (or more) with anxiety and depression, though.
I only took half my prescribed dose of Pregabalin for a couple of weeks because I was concerned about the wooziness and slight lack of concentration it seemed to caused. A couple of days ago I started taking the prescribed dose, and fortunately the wooziness etc seems to have worn off, so it looks as if this was a start-up effect. I think it might be making a slight bit of difference now.
I got so anxious at work on Wednesday that it kicked me to put the Pregabalin at the prescribed dose.
I agree - there does seem to be too much pressure at work. The saving grace is that it is not a full-time job!
I am struck by how well Sandie seems to cope with disabling physical symptoms of anxiety. I think her husband is back this weekend, so hopefully things will improve a bit for her.
A x
Istherehope?
23-01-16, 11:47
Thanks A, glad to hear that the wooziness and lack of coordination have passed and really hope the pregabalin helps you on the road to recovery.
Hope your husband is back soon Sandie, still thinking of you.
Struggling a bit today but that may be because I've increased the Ven, or it may just be me....as ever it's impossible to know for sure!
Hi Everyone,
Sandie, I hope you've had a reasonable weekend. I think your husband was back.
Is, I agree. It is virtually impossible to know how much is us, and how much is the meds. I get the impression that you think the Ven may be helping more than the Mirt, but it's probably impossible to know fully.
I think I will have to stop the Pregabalin. I am sure it is causing weight gain - this is apparently a common side-effect - and I am already considerably overweight, partly because of all the medication. I can't afford to gain any more weight, and the gain is causing me a lot of anxiety. I have been exercising and really watching my weight - no cakes, no snacks, small portions etc - and I've still gained weight. Usually I can my weight at least constant if I'm careful, so I think the Pregabalin must be implicated here.
You just can't win.
Shazamataz
25-01-16, 08:25
Sorry to hear about the weight gain A63. I was worried about that too with the Mirt but my hugely increased appetite only seemed to last just over a week, and I had a lot of catching up to do!
I've always been relatively small/slim but do understand how horrible one can feel when gaining weight. I did go through a heavy stage (for me) about 15 years ago when I got to 65kg when a good weighyt for me is about 55 kg. I went to Weight Watchers and ended up getting asked to leave as I lost too much weight (got a bit obsessed) and was down to 50kg!
I do wonder, though, the way I have been feeling recently, if I'd rather be fat and happy than skinny and so dreadfully miserable.
That said, I don't know your own weight situation and do understand how it could make things worse in the long run.
Hope everyone else doing ok?
I am totally off Mirtazapine now but by only two weeks so am I withdrawal. I would never ever touch this drug again after being on it twice now and both times it making me miles worse. I stupidly listened to my doctor who said the first time I took it, I was probs just so stressed over my divorce that it had nothing to do with the pills. Total rubbish. This meds just does not agree with me!!! But I know two people who take it and it has worked wonders for and the doctors swear by it. Sadly it is just not for me and I am currently on nothing at all.
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