View Full Version : Getting worse.
Agoraphobic now. What shall I do?
I've been mentally unstable since I was born and in recent years it is getting worse and it has now reached dangerously sinister levels.
Anyone.
MyNameIsTerry
22-12-15, 11:41
This can be par for the course with anxiety, Calum. I've become agoraphobic twice when starting meds and it's not true agoraphobia, it's literally a greatly amplified level of anxiety from the start up side effects. So, this seems like your anxiety is either taking a temporary intensifcation or you are entering a worse stage. Eitherway, what you need to do is follow up that appointment. You need to contact them and explain how you cannot even get out anymore as they may have a solution to this.
What do you mean by "dangerously sinister levels"? If by this you mean you could harm yourself, you need to contact your GP or the NHS contact lines as soon as possible. You can also contact The Samaritans who will listen to you without judgement.
You also said this on another thread:
What does Paxil/Paroxetine feel like? I was prescribed it because I keep dry heaving and retching. I did some research and found the side effects too risky. I will be seeking anti-anxiety medication as my next port of call rather than very strong anti-depressants such as Paxil.
You will be struggling to find a single med that doesn't have start up side effects, it's just the way things are in medical science right now. There are meds that have lesser side effect profiles like Mirtazapine or epilepsy meds like Pregabalin. However, you will find people on this very forum stating they are struggling with side effects of them despite the lesser side effect profiles. If you have any history of substance abuse, Pregabalin is advised against although a psychiatrist may decide to use it but be aware it's expensive so GP's don't like it.
This limits your options to things like Benzo's, which will certainly help you short-term but long term treatment just means addiction that you then have to beat. A GP won't (unless they are a bad GP) prescribe these for long but a psychiatrist may as they can manage the later tolerence issues.
There are meds like Buspirone you can try but they work more against symptoms rather than real change and are short-term only in the UK, hence it's back to a psychiatrist to use them longer term (I know they do this if needed).
Otherwise you are into anti-psychotics, which long term come with physical health problems and really they are meant long term for people with more serious mental health problems, not anxiety/depression.
New meds are always coming along but they can be hard to access.
So, please try to reconcile this in your head - be realistic about meds, expect side effects. You will get through them, I've been severe too BUT I clawed my way back out with very little help from the NHS other than CBT which wasn't very successful due to how the meds affected me.
You are faced with a choice, take a chance and you could get better or wait and let it stay as bad or get worse. At some point you will have to find the courage within yourself to make the leap of faith like many of us have.
This can be par for the course with anxiety, Calum. I've become agoraphobic twice when starting meds and it's not true agoraphobia, it's literally a greatly amplified level of anxiety from the start up side effects. So, this seems like your anxiety is either taking a temporary intensifcation or you are entering a worse stage. Eitherway, what you need to do is follow up that appointment. You need to contact them and explain how you cannot even get out anymore as they may have a solution to this.
What do you mean by "dangerously sinister levels"? If by this you mean you could harm yourself, you need to contact your GP or the NHS contact lines as soon as possible. You can also contact The Samaritans who will listen to you without judgement.
You also said this on another thread:
You will be struggling to find a single med that doesn't have start up side effects, it's just the way things are in medical science right now. There are meds that have lesser side effect profiles like Mirtazapine or epilepsy meds like Pregabalin. However, you will find people on this very forum stating they are struggling with side effects of them despite the lesser side effect profiles. If you have any history of substance abuse, Pregabalin is advised against although a psychiatrist may decide to use it but be aware it's expensive so GP's don't like it.
This limits your options to things like Benzo's, which will certainly help you short-term but long term treatment just means addiction that you then have to beat. A GP won't (unless they are a bad GP) prescribe these for long but a psychiatrist may as they can manage the later tolerence issues.
There are meds like Buspirone you can try but they work more against symptoms rather than real change and are short-term only in the UK, hence it's back to a psychiatrist to use them longer term (I know they do this if needed).
Otherwise you are into anti-psychotics, which long term come with physical health problems and really they are meant long term for people with more serious mental health problems, not anxiety/depression.
New meds are always coming along but they can be hard to access.
So, please try to reconcile this in your head - be realistic about meds, expect side effects. You will get through them, I've been severe too BUT I clawed my way back out with very little help from the NHS other than CBT which wasn't very successful due to how the meds affected me.
You are faced with a choice, take a chance and you could get better or wait and let it stay as bad or get worse. At some point you will have to find the courage within yourself to make the leap of faith like many of us have.
Hello Terry.
Don't worry I am not in danger! When I say sinister levels I mean this in the context that I cannot go anywhere these days. I make it to work and corner shop and then apart from that I cannot go anywhere. If I even attempt to go anywhere then the retching I suffer from starts to manifest itself to such a level that it feels as though I am going to encounter a medical emergency and this is the last thing I want. It often gets to such a point that it feels like I am actually going to rupture or tear something in my body such is the ferocity of these episodes. If only I could tolerate endoscopy then that could shed some light on any possible internal disorder but as I cannot then we cannot be 100% certain in eliminating any functional GI disorder unfortunately.
---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------
Hello Terry.
Don't worry I am not in danger! When I say sinister levels I mean this in the context that I cannot go anywhere these days. I make it to work and corner shop and then apart from that I cannot go anywhere. If I even attempt to go anywhere then the retching I suffer from starts to manifest itself to such a level that it feels as though I am going to encounter a medical emergency and this is the last thing I want. It often gets to such a point that it feels like I am actually going to rupture or tear something in my body such is the ferocity of these episodes. If only I could tolerate endoscopy then that could shed some light on any possible internal disorder but as I cannot then we cannot be 100% certain in eliminating any functional GI disorder unfortunately.
Why do most meds give such side effects when starting them? Why is this the case I wonder? Why does this have to happen?
---------- Post added at 19:47 ---------- Previous post was at 19:46 ----------
Hello Terry.
Don't worry I am not in danger! When I say sinister levels I mean this in the context that I cannot go anywhere these days. I make it to work and corner shop and then apart from that I cannot go anywhere. If I even attempt to go anywhere then the retching I suffer from starts to manifest itself to such a level that it feels as though I am going to encounter a medical emergency and this is the last thing I want. It often gets to such a point that it feels like I am actually going to rupture or tear something in my body such is the ferocity of these episodes. If only I could tolerate endoscopy then that could shed some light on any possible internal disorder but as I cannot then we cannot be 100% certain in eliminating any functional GI disorder unfortunately.
---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------
Why do most meds give such side effects when starting them? Why is this the case I wonder? Why does this have to happen?
What are anti-psychotics usually prescribed for and why do they have such severe side effects?
MyNameIsTerry
22-12-15, 23:25
If they can determine the pattern of retching only manifests as a result of an anxiety/panic trigger, that may rule GI out anyway. If it was happening regardless of anxiety, then I could understand the need for tests.
Anti psychotics were originally for schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. They are classed as major tranquilisers. The trouble is they are known for their ability to mess with your metabolism and cause Diabetes. Just look at Olanzapine and how people pile weight on as they are constantly hungry. Then look how people reduce the dose to find that goes away.
The trouble with SSRI/SNRI meds is they are flooding the space with me of the neurotransmitter and after about a month they basically plug the receptor sites so you waste less. These increases feel dramatic so your body has to adjust to them. Some like Citalopram are known to affect specific gut Serotonin receptors too hence how nausea is an early issue and if happens so quick you can't have even absorbed it into your blood plasma at the time.
Another problem is that they are largely broken by liver enzymes. These enzymes differ based on your geography as some peoples have been seen to have a different level of certain ones based on their geography as a people.
Ricardo posted something interesting about liver enzyme screening to determine which meds would not be well tolerated. This is interesting because they already do this for some physical health conditions. I doubt the rumbling dinosaur of the NHS will be offering it to us since it's cheaper to experiment on us!
Agoraphobic now. What shall I do?
I've been mentally unstable since I was born and in recent years it is getting worse and it has now reached dangerously sinister levels.
Anyone.
Have you considered inpatient treatment? With respect, your behaviors in trying to compensate for your retching have not been successful and it appears it's only making things worse. Considering meds in light of your self medicating with alcohol could be dangerous. Having supervised medical and mental attention may be beneficial in helping you break the cycle of self destructive behavior.
Positive thoughts
Have you considered inpatient treatment? With respect, your behaviors in trying to compensate for your retching have not been successful and it appears it's only making things worse. Considering meds in light of your self medicating with alcohol could be dangerous. Having supervised medical and mental attention may be beneficial in helping you break the cycle of self destructive behavior.
Positive thoughts
Voluntary or involuntary?
MyNameIsTerry
23-12-15, 10:12
I think FMP means paying to enter a retreat. Things are different in the UK though and thats for people with private insurance to cover it (which is a minority) or people with a load of cash to afford it.
Outside of that it is about sectioning. If you are asking "voluntary or involuntary" in terms of sectioning, I suggest you read MIND's guide to the sectioning process. If you are risk to yourself or others or cannot look after yourself to the point of it becoming harmful to your health, thats where this process comes into play. If you are unable to make the decision, it can be mandatory otherwise if suggested you can volunteer.
Do you think you need sectioning? If the answer is no, the question is do you have a ton of cash behind you to afford private inpatient services?
Lets leave the decision on whether meds can be used along with your alcohol issues to the professionals because nobody on here has the training, experience or ability to prescribe meds and ensure your safety. It's a fact that meds can be prescribed alongside alcohol and despite the interaction warnings we public people can see, you will see they also say "unless a medical professional determines the benefits outweigh the risk". Alcohol has a Moderate interaction warning with many and to be honest with you anyone who cross-tapers with many of these meds is at risk of a Major interaction warning, yet I don't see people raising this. Again, it's done under careful medical supervision and so will be prescribing alongside alcohol, if it is needed.
I think FMP means paying to enter a retreat. Things are different in the UK though and thats for people with private insurance to cover it (which is a minority) or people with a load of cash to afford it.
Outside of that it is about sectioning. If you are asking "voluntary or involuntary" in terms of sectioning, I suggest you read MIND's guide to the sectioning process. If you are risk to yourself or others or cannot look after yourself to the point of it becoming harmful to your health, thats where this process comes into play. If you are unable to make the decision, it can be mandatory otherwise if suggested you can volunteer.
Do you think you need sectioning? If the answer is no, the question is do you have a ton of cash behind you to afford private inpatient services?
Lets leave the decision on whether meds can be used along with your alcohol issues to the professionals because nobody on here has the training, experience or ability to prescribe meds and ensure your safety. It's a fact that meds can be prescribed alongside alcohol and despite the interaction warnings we public people can see, you will see they also say "unless a medical professional determines the benefits outweigh the risk". Alcohol has a Moderate interaction warning with many and to be honest with you anyone who cross-tapers with many of these meds is at risk of a Major interaction warning, yet I don't see people raising this. Again, it's done under careful medical supervision and so will be prescribing alongside alcohol, if it is needed.
I don't need inpatient treatment as far as I am aware. I have seen the kind of people in these units and I am not in the same despair as them. It's just this retching symptom that is horrifying me. If it wasn't there then I wouldn't have half the anxiety and horror that I do. In fact the only reason I came on here was for the retching symptom itself. I have lived with anxiety since I was a child and I never once needed to come on to a forum. So you can see how these past 2-3 years on this forum have been caused by the retching rather than the actual anxiety itself.
MyNameIsTerry
23-12-15, 11:37
I think FMP is just seeing the level of upset this is causing you and suggesting some alternatives. I wish we had such options in the UK but it's really more for the celebs who go in & out with a glass of champagne in their hands whenever they want. The rest of us make do with the best of a bad situation with the NHS.
If you talk to some of the people on here with experience of those inpatient facilities, some say they were nice, some say they were a horror story of their own. The ones local to me tend to fall into the latter from what I've heard and one of them even has a reputation from being unable to secure the inpatients so they don't wander off. Thats the NHS for you, varying quality. Even people admitted can be booted out pretty quickly, there just isn't the space or the budget, it's truly shocking.
Whats clear is that you really need some therapy here because there is the alcohol use to control the retching and the reason causing it. Learning to control your reaction to the trigger will obviously bring your anxiety levels down substantially as you are very sensitive to it. For me it was more nausea, breathing issues and the sense of losing control, for others it's something else but if it comes as a result of a trigger, you can learn to change it.
I think FMP is just seeing the level of upset this is causing you and suggesting some alternatives. I wish we had such options in the UK but it's really more for the celebs who go in & out with a glass of champagne in their hands whenever they want. The rest of us make do with the best of a bad situation with the NHS.
If you talk to some of the people on here with experience of those inpatient facilities, some say they were nice, some say they were a horror story of their own. The ones local to me tend to fall into the latter from what I've heard and one of them even has a reputation from being unable to secure the inpatients so they don't wander off. Thats the NHS for you, varying quality. Even people admitted can be booted out pretty quickly, there just isn't the space or the budget, it's truly shocking.
Whats clear is that you really need some therapy here because there is the alcohol use to control the retching and the reason causing it. Learning to control your reaction to the trigger will obviously bring your anxiety levels down substantially as you are very sensitive to it. For me it was more nausea, breathing issues and the sense of losing control, for others it's something else but if it comes as a result of a trigger, you can learn to change it.
My car got blocked in my driveway the other day and I started retching. This is just one of the examples of how this retching manifests itself.
Even the thought of crossing the road can make me retch. It's really freaking me out.
I cannot remember the last time I felt in any way normal.
MyNameIsTerry
23-12-15, 11:50
There are direct ways to try to address it but also indirect ones to reduce overall anxiety levels which can reduce your symptoms.
Do you do any relaxation techniques? They can help but you need to keep them up as they tend to help more over time as your anxiety reduces without you consciously realising.
There are direct ways to try to address it but also indirect ones to reduce overall anxiety levels which can reduce your symptoms.
Do you do any relaxation techniques? They can help but you need to keep them up as they tend to help more over time as your anxiety reduces without you consciously realising.
I don't ever practise any techniques unfortunately.
MyNameIsTerry
23-12-15, 12:32
Thats something you can make a start on. It is worth it and the more relaxation periods you build in, the more your subconscious gets used to be relaxed more often. GAD is the absolute opposite, you get used to being anxious all day long for often no reason and this is why these techniques can help as they break them up.
I know even thinking of trying these things brings anxious thoughts and it can take some repetition to get beyond that because it always affected me that way when I relapsed.
What you said about only being able to go to certain places too, I've been like that and I bet a lot of people have, it's a natural escalation of these disorders. I refer to it my "bubble", it's how my world shrinks around me and thinking out stepp[ing outside of it is scary but expanding your bubble really does help you, it took me pushing it out to realise it.
Voluntary or involuntary?
Cal, I mean voluntary. One, to dry out and find alternatives to self medicating with alcohol and two, to get intensive psychotherapy and meds if needed to get to the root of your issues. You're hurting and it's quite apparent from your posts. You need help and no one here can provide it.
Positive thoughts
Cal, I mean voluntary. One, to dry out and find alternatives to self medicating with alcohol and two, to get intensive psychotherapy and meds if needed to get to the root of your issues. You're hurting and it's quite apparent from your posts. You need help and no one here can provide it.
Positive thoughts
I'm due at the hospital before the years out. I'll let you know what happens.
I'm due at the hospital before the years out. I'll let you know what happens.
Good to hear. Have a wonderful Christmas and hopefully the New Year will bring some relief.
Positive thoughts
Good to hear. Have a wonderful Christmas and hopefully the New Year will bring some relief.
Positive thoughts
Thank you FMP. You to. :hugs:
MyNameIsTerry
24-12-15, 04:48
Good luck with the appointment.
Write down anything you want to get across and ask, it can be daunting on the day and you can often come out with things you never mentioned. Just some bullet points can help.
Please also be straight with them about any use of alcohol so they can come up with the best integrative therapy plan for you.
Don't worry about how anxious you are, they see people ranging from trying their best to shut down & hide it to people breaking down in front of them. No matter how you appear on the day, they have seen people in far worse conditions with more serious mental health issues and they are non judgemental.
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