Health Anxiety over Insomnia

[Energeiz]

Hello Everyone,

I've been a long-time member but haven't posted much although I did frequent the chat room a bit years ago.

I will begin , by saying I did suffer GAD, Panic attacks and health anxiety 10 years ago but it has bothered me since until now with all the pressure I'm under ....

Anyway, In the beginning of October my Benefits claim was due to be under review and I was anxiously concerned I might be suspended since I have been before and if that happened I knew it could probably mean going homeless. Finally the review came and went at the end of October. Then I was forwarded over to an associated employment center. The employment center job developers also then also started sending emails with subtle threats to my benefits if I didn't comply to their satisfaction periodically throughout November.

At the beginning of October during all that I started experiencing anxiety in the form of a constant knotted / tight stomach , nervousness and irritability as one could imagine.I also had one panic attack. By November i started having more frequent panic attacks. Then by Dec.8 my sleep got noticeably effected with hypnic jerks and that concerned me to the point I did not sleep. Then for that week I slept 3 hours one night, no sleep 2 nights, then 3 hours, next night 1 hour ..etc.

Last week was better that most nights I slept 3 hours average. Last Sunday 1 hour and the last 2 night this week zero hours and was scared perhaps I had developed Sporadic fatal Insomnia. I've been kind of worried about this and this has also perpetuated by my health anxiety and silly researching. I could really use some support PLEASE. :weep:

I hope this anxiety related insomnia.

I finally caved in desperation today and went to my GP today and told him everything and he prescribed me 10mg of Amitriptyline to sleep and said he would set me up with an appointment with a psychiatrist. I don't usually like to take drugs, especially a drug that seems to have so many side effects. Amitriptyline accordingly is an SNRI for depression, pain, sleep and anxiety but it supposedly takes a 2-4 weeks to start working. Does anyone know from experience if effects are felt sooner? Otherwise I'm still left with my dilemma until then perhaps and that means I may need to go back to for something faster acting.

Thanks for reading.

[Fishmanpa]

I was prescribed amitriptyline for insomnia and nerve pain after heart surgery. I can tell you that I took a pill and was out cold with in an hour and slept so hard I didn't even remember dreaming. The added benefit was it solved the nerve pain in a week.

Positive thoughts

[Energeiz]

Thanks Fishmanpa.

Do you have anything to say in regards to my Sporadic Insomnia concern?

[Fishmanpa]

Thanks Fishmanpa.

Do you have anything to say in regards to my Sporadic Insomnia concern?

Just the fact that it's so ridiculously rare that you stand the chance of hitting the lottery twice in a week ;)

Positive thoughts

[Energeiz]

Fishmanpa, I truly appreciate your supportive response.

I live alone so I'm quite alone with my thoughts presently and with the circumstances and Christmas fast approaching it can be a bit challenging on the mind. Hopefully others will also chime in some added support , cuz I could sure use the reassurance even if it seems ridiculous to some.

Hopefully the 10mg amitriptyline gives me some sleep. I read of some people requiring higher doses to get an effect. Have you read some of the side effects of that drug i.e. coma , heart issues ...etc? Makes me wonder if I'm rolling the dice with taking it. Although many seem to have few issues with it. But admittedly I'm feeling somewhat desperate; as I mentioned.

Thanks again.

[Crystalhiggs]

Hey, rest assured you will always sleep eventually. Your body knows what to do. I was there for 6 months earlier this year. As hard as it is you must try not to worry about it. That is key to overcoming insomnia.
Say to yourself ok, lack of sleep won't kill me. It doesn't feel nice but I'll be ok, if I sleep I sleep if I don't I don't. I can promise you everything will eventually fall back into place.
Have a peaceful Christmas xx

[Energeiz]

Crystal, thank you for the uplifting reply. :hugs:

I was prescribed 10mg of Amitriptyline ( a low dose) yesterday and slept about 4 hours last night. However I still feel some nervousness and knotted stomach in conjunction with some slight grogginess , but of course like all medications, there is and adjustment phase.

Albeit, I will eventually want to buffer of those meds at some point since I'm not a big fan of taking medications and rarely do. Preferably, I use alternative meds when possible. But under the circumstances of my life, I was desperate and overwhelmed so submitted to a drug more fast acting. I also took the meds to also prove to myself my sleep system was still intact. Although in view of my description that led up to my insomnia, the logical mind would stipulate its a classic anxiety case since sleep disturbance i.e. insomnia is a common casualty of relentless anxiety.

Nonetheless thanks again also for your advice and you too have a Merry Christmas xx

[Energeiz]

Hey Everyone,

Well, here is my update insofar. Please help, I'm alone and afraid at the moment in this situation and trying to desperately come to grips. Anyway here is my story and where I am with all this currently.

I was prescribed 10mg of Amitriptyline on Dec 23rd and got 4 hrs. sleep first night ( it took about 3 hours to work I estimate), next night was about 2 hrs. and the next night was zero.

So on Dec.26th I went back into the walk-in-clinic (I originally went) and happened to have see a different GP since my original GP wasn't in. This GP listened to my same original story of how I went from relentless knotted stomach in October to added panic attacks that increased in November and finally by Dec.8 I began with sleep issues of average 3hrs/night to zero hours 2 nights in a row , then 3 hrs of sleep sometimes a few nights like that in a row then zero again. I have had no panic attacks in December so far. I've also had hypnic jerks and sometimes startled by sounds while trying to sleep.

So she said you have not been on the Amitriptyline that long ( meaning perhaps too her I hadn't given it a fair chance). Anyway she said well I can try you on 15mg of mirtazapine and .25mg of xanax ( Alprazolam) and you can see how you do with those. I also am in waiting to be sorted with a psychiatrist. But the GP informed me I could be waiting for months for my first appointment. And I cannot to afford to currently pay for my own therapist or CBT. Thus I'm on my own on that front for now too. Anyway I 'm waffling a bit perhaps , but just trying to give everybody the full idea of my circumstances.

Nonetheless, so the first night (Dec.26th) I took the 15mg of Mirtzapine around 9:45pm and then the xanax an hour later at 11pm (but perhaps I should have taken them together for a stronger effect I dunno anyway fall asleep about 15 minutes later ( it took about 1.5 hrs to work approx. in total from time I took the Mirtz) . But I woke 2.5 hours later and then fell back asleep for another 4hrs. or so.

However, Last night ( Dec.27th) I took the Mirtz. and xanax in the same way but I don't think I got more than 1 hour sleep. I even took another .25 xanax at around 4am in the morning but still only maybe 1 hr. of sleep perhaps total.

I did a lot of walking yesterday and kept fairly busy with errands and so forth. And I was even feeling a little groggy throughout albeit I heard that can be the effect of the Mirtzapine. So thought I burnt enough energy and tried to keep busy. Even bought Claire Weekes book and black out my window with a heavy blanket to block any light for better sleep hygiene. But last night was the result.

I'm a little concerned these drugs I've tried insofar start to work and then slowly seemed to not work. Has anyone experienced this ? I'm a little scared here. Any comments or reassurance on this would be greatly appreciated.

Furthermore, I find lately the last 3 weeks I'm been afraid I may never sleep and due to this and the way those few medications have been going I'm seem a little fixated on that SPI or fatal insomnia worry. I really find right now I'm in a dark place, feel so alone, scared I'm going to die and really need a lot of reassurance ...PLEASE HELP :weep:

[Crystalhiggs]

Hey, you're not alone and you're not going to die! You are going to be just fine, trust me if you could see my journal from earlier this year you would identify with so much of what I went through!
Now I hate meds, omg I hate them. I was given Trazodone to help me sleep. Not only did it not help me sleep, it sent me completely bonkers! I had every side effect in the book but was persuaded to stay on them. When I finally came off it 5 months later (because then I had to taper slowly off it!) guess what? I slept! The relief then of not being on meds was amazing! But I'm not telling you whether you should or shouldn't take meds but please bear in mind they can take a while to kick in and a while to come off! And they don't always work, (although I hear mirt is a good one)!
Please try to relax. You most certainly do not have SFI!!! You will sleep you just have to stop trying. Sleep is natural, sleep is the default, sleep will happen if you can just try to let go. I never thought back in February that i'd be saying this but I sleep well almost every night now. If I have a blip I just don't worry about it and I sleep the next night. The only cure is to stop letting it control you, don't give insomnia the power. I promise promise promise you, it will all fall back into place. Take the meds or don't take the meds but you will sleep, it's what you're designed to do! Take care!!

[Energeiz]

Thanks Crystal.

I've been sitting here so wound up and desperate about this insomnia of mine that I was thinking I should run to the GP for blood tests , MRIs' and whatever else. I was under the impression Mirtzapine works for everyone since people seem to hail it so much. And when it did not work last night it made me worry even more.

[Crystalhiggs]

Don't go to the gp. You'd be better off finding a meditation on you tube or downloading the headspace app (in my humble opinion) :) try to find ways of relaxing. I know it's easy for me to say that now. You haven't always had insomnia so in my book you're not an insomniac. It's a phase, a blip and it will pass.
Mirt has a good reputation as a sleep aid. I haven't tried it myself so I don't know, there is a whole thread dedicated to it in the meds forum. But what I'm saying is pills or no pills, that you have the power within you to sleep well every night, trying to reassure you with that. :)

[uru]

Insomnia sucks! I suffer from it greatly.

I'm curious, -did anything in your life change prior to the insomnia? Personally I think getting a new ipad was a catalyst. Work stress can be another.

Make sure you have good sleep hygiene.
https://sleepfoundation.org/ask-the-expert/sleep-hygiene

[Energeiz]

Thanks again Crystal for the reassurance.

I will look into some of the Youtube relaxation videos. I bought Claire weekes book yesterday and also download <removed> They seem both saying the same about Acceptance and Distraction.

Furthermroe I've been reading through the forum and found that member, Keggsy, started with with 15mg Mirtazapine and stated the sedative effect did not help his sleep anxiety. Therefore he got 30mg of Mirt. and that improved his mood and sleep a little bit. But he still added Zoplicone in emergencies according to that one particular post of his. Interestingly in another post on a later date he says , " Mirt has not really aided his sleep, at any dose."

However, he says what helped him most was supportive friends & family in conjunction with CBT.

Another member , Jane2011 said Mirtzapine at 15mg worked 3 nights gradually got less then nothing. In another post she said some nights it works some nights nothing also.

Although some members stipulate that 7.5mg of Mirt. may be more effective for sleep than 15mg. Oppositely some members have done better at 30mg for sleep. So I guess its about individual biochemistry with what dose works and combination of medications.

Nonetheless Crystal , I'm like you, I really don't like taking medications neither. Maybe all I can do is see if I get any sleep without any medications over the next couple of days by allowing my system to get exhausted; I dunno its just something I'm contemplating at the moment. I think living alone may also be harder when one has something like insomnia due to how lonely it can feel at times and its sometimes to always keep the mind occupied. And right now the winter is fast approaching so its not the best for a lot of outside activity. Thus that can make things a little tougher I suppose, as many people tend to focus on activities that can be done indoors where its warmer.

On another note, Presently my diet is fairly good ie. healthy meats,eggs, fish, vegetables and healthy fats i.e. butter. I also take supplements and have for quite awhile. I don't drink or smoke. My digestion and everything seems to be fine as my weight seems also ok.

I guess what I'm doing here is probably like so many people is that I'm analyzing my circumstances for answers that can help me out of this insomnia situation. I realize I began with anxiety symptoms in October and other anxiety symptoms added along the way before my sleep was noticeably affected. And therefore I imagine this would be considered a classic or typical pattern of how insomnia can ensue. Albeit when a person like myself is looking from it from the inside its not so easy to see it from the perspective from someone's perspective on the outside. Thus my reason for hoping to hear from others and their experiences.

As a side note my average normal sleep use to range 5-6 hours per night.

Moreover, I will also say I wish I was in a better position to afford my own therapist instead of having to wait for a placement with a psychiatrist to talk too. A naturopath might also be good too for checking any possible deficiencies if I could afford it. But at present I'm on benefits and seeking employment. So I'm left with mostly self-help options for the most part.

Thanks again for reading and you & everyone's patience.

[Energeiz]

Hi Urusainaa

Here a copy & paste of an overview below of how things began in relation to my insomnia ....


I will begin , by saying I did suffer GAD, Panic attacks and health anxiety 10 years ago but it has bothered me since until now with all the pressure I'm under ....

Anyway, In the beginning of October my Benefits claim was due to be under review and I was anxiously concerned I might be suspended since I have been before and if that happened I knew it could probably mean going homeless. Finally the review came and went at the end of October. Then I was forwarded over to an associated employment center. The employment center job developers also then also started sending emails with subtle threats to my benefits if I didn't comply to their satisfaction periodically throughout November.

At the beginning of October during all that I started experiencing anxiety in the form of a constant knotted / tight stomach , nervousness and irritability as one could imagine.I also had one panic attack. By November i started having more frequent panic attacks. Then by Dec.8 my sleep got noticeably effected with hypnic jerks and that concerned me to the point I did not sleep. Then for that week I slept 3 hours one night, no sleep 2 nights, then 3 hours, next night 1 hour ..etc.

Last week was better that most nights I slept 3 hours average. Last Sunday 1 hour and the last 2 night this week zero hours and was scared perhaps I had developed Sporadic fatal Insomnia. I've been kind of worried about this and this has also perpetuated by my health anxiety and silly researching.

[Crystalhiggs]

Hey how did you sleep last night? Hope you were a bit more relaxed. :)

[MyNameIsTerry]

If you are planning on trying to understand Mirt, I would suggest raising a thread on the Mirt board as it will attract people like hanshan, SmilingAlbert, etc who will give you advice on the dosages because at different levels Mirt has different effects e.g. it can be stimulating and this you don't need and GP's seem to have little understanding of this.

I've been through insomnia in my anxiety over the last 9 years. Originally it was about getting to sleep but in my relapse it became about waking earlier than needed and not getting back to sleep. It is very much a vicious circle and worrying about it will just keep you awake. Work on reducing your anxiety itself and the sleep will follow. Don't look at clocks at all in bed and get a good sleep hygiene routine in place e.g. I find reading in bed helped me calm down greatly.

Listen to Crystal too, she's been through very rough times with it in the last year.

My GP just handed me a leaflet about sleep. When I crashed big time starting Citalopram I was given Zopiclone irresponsibly by my GP (he didn't tell me how to take it properly) and I ended up with a tolerance issue after 30 days and had to wean off. If you can avoid meds, it's best since insomnia (not considering any physical disorders or meds causing it) is really more a symptom/output of anxiety.

[Energeiz]

Hi Crystal,

I did not take the Mirtz. Instead I decided to leave the radio running in another room on low volume as form of company, if you will, and to lay in bed reading Claire Weekes for some inspiration until I was tired. And after awhile I found my eyes closing and drifting off a few minutes at a time. Then I put the book down and it seemed I fell into what seemed as a light sleep dreaming. But after awhile I was awake again so I picked up the book and took .25mg xanax ( its the lowest dose and barely does much since I've taken it years ago) and read some more until 5-6am where I then fell back a sleep for another 2 hours.

So one step at a time I guess. But the thing is I got some sleep without strong antidepressants. Therefore that seems like a good sign my sleep is there waiting in the wings.:blush:

Hey Terry ~ thank you for the support and feedback along with sharing your experience. I truly appreciate it. I'll take your suggestion about Mirt and posting a thread under advisement if I feel I need some more information at some point. Thanks. I realize you, Crystal, Mr.Andy, Greg, Hashan and a good few others have a wealth of experience with the subject of Insomnia. And I'm glad to see many of you on here so supportive giving great guidance to so many that feel desperate, afraid and lost. :shades:

Although incidentally I was researching the forum and elsewhere on insomnia experiences and the drugs that I was prescribed. And interestingly most drugs prescribed for insomnia actually have the potential to ironically cause insomnia and/or increase anxiety depending on the individual's biochemistry including Mirtazapine. Therefore taking drugs for insomnia, anxiety, or depression is really a hit & miss or more to the point an experiment of guessing what will work for each individual by the physician that prescribes them.

However, in my opinion from what I've researched and even Claire Weekes a former physician advocates that if a person has not slept for a series of nights then a fast acting strong sedative is the wiser choice of prescription ( if its felt required) to allow the person's mind to rest while they practice sleep hygiene, acceptance ...etc. to help towards their healing and recovery.

And therefore that would mean prescribing benzodiazepines i.e. Valium, Librium, Ativan ...etc., rather than these combinations of antidepressants that increase the obvious likelihood of far more side effects, withdrawals and complications. Not to mention some of these antidepressants are not fast acting. Furthermore the fear and the silly excuse by the medical system to oppose or be so hesitant to prescribe benzodiazepines because they fear that individuals may abuse or overdose on benzodiazepines is ludicrous when the same concerns and more exist with antidepressants and the combinations they are prescribed. And many side effects and problems are also possible with antidepressants as well. Albeit, the benzodiazepine issue is actually still controversial as far as its debated supposed concerns. But interestingly many people have taken the tried & true standby -- Valium in example for decades without issues .. yet this seems overlooked by many of the medical profession of today.

Nonetheless and regardless, basically medication is like technology to some degree ,it can be useful if used properly and in short spurts.

Otherwise, I believe alternative routes are probably the better way with conventional medicine perhaps playing a roll in a complimentary way and not the other way around as general society may be indoctrinated to believe. The outcome / results seems more favorable in the long term.

Anyway Terry, funny thing about sleep hygiene, I believe some of it is useful i.e. black-out window with heavy drapes-blanket-towels , no food 3 hours before bed , avoid arguments or violent TV before bed ...etc. However, while some of it is subjective i.e reading in bed ( not recommended as sleep hygiene but it works for many), some people actually sleep better with a light on and some in the dark .... see what I mean? So we all gotta figure what works best for each of us ...however it seems the two big ones are "distraction and acceptance" when addressing anxiety related insomnia. Even nutrition plays a large roll and it is important to eliminate or minimize greatly caffeine > coffee/tea , alcohol, sugar, and nicotine since these will directly or indirectly stimulate adrenaline thus more sensitization of nerves and anxiety feeding sleep issues and its symptoms.

Nevertheless, I tried going to bed at a certain time but realized it may be better doing something mildly distracting (like you did) i.e. reading a book or something similar until I am sleepy. Otherwise I may be forcing things and probably I suspect causing myself more stress. Funnily enough my late mum used to read in bed when she could not sleep until she drifted off. I believe reading, knitting, journaling, strolls and similar were ways people traditionally dealt with helping themselves to address insomnia as well.

Anyhow, I just trying to take it one step and one day at a time and to keep working on it like everyone else here. Thanks again for the support.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, I found reading in bed was activating for me when I first when through it but in my relapse is was the complete opposite. A lot of everything in the anxiety world is trial & error, it's part of how frustrating it all is.

A short course of Zopiclone, a Z drug, is often used in the same way that Benzo's are since there are similarities. Just do your research, which you seem to have nailed anyway, and ensure things are going as you expect. Weekes is somewhat out of date in terms of science thesedays since there have been major discoveries since her death (e.g. neuroplasticity has completed changed views on the brains learning limits) but there is still relevance there about trying a short course. It may work for some and at a minimum I think just having some respite can be beneficial because insomnia really does intensify anxiety disorders. Sometimes regaining a bit of strength can allow you to naturally pull yourself out of a cycle, so I don't dismiss that view but some of these meds came in after her books or near to her death so it's worth the further research you are doing.

I think any drug has the capability to produce an opposite reaction although it should be rare but you will know from reading forums like this that it can seem less than rare to see symptoms like increased anxiety. The drug info usually splits them into buckets based on probability but I can say I've even had some of the rarer ones. It's so hit & miss with meds.

[Energeiz]

Thanks Terry. Sorry to hear you had a relapse. I hope things are moving along better for you now.

Yeah, it seems we are both pretty much on the same page in regards to your previous reponse.

Neuroplasticity is just an umbrella term describing the brain's ability to make new neuro pathways to adapt as it needs. Sort of like reprogramming the mind. This in essence can mean learning new habits or ways to address how we react to a problem/s i.e. instead of fear react with forms of distraction. We can also learn how to reprogram our minds by learning how to react by tranquilizing our minds naturally in a few ways with practice of meditation, acceptance , mindfulness ...etc. Of course that's the thing , developing neuroplasticity requires application and practice.

I believe the science insofar has just proved what people were already doing for a long time when it comes to realizing we can reprogram reactions and the mind. Technically neuroplasticity for addressing behaviours in forms of, CBT,NLP,Hypnosis, meditation, binaural beats ...etc , all existed in the 20th century ...so none of this can be really submitted as new by science in the 21st century.

Mostly everything unless technology based is not new. All that has been done with most concepts that already exist or that have been rediscovered is to dress them up with fancier terminologies.

Moreover, a lot of the newer designer drugs actually cause more side effects than the older ones as well. Even experienced practitioners will agree that a lot of older meds cause less side effects than newer ones generally speaking.

But regardless at the end of the day I agree with you, .. for everyone its trial and error to see what works for the them. And yup, its a hit & miss with meds for sure! Thanks for all your info insofar and the compiled helpful resources you created. Have a good night. Cheers 4 now ...