So now I'm trying Mirtazapine!

[Shazamataz]

Hello all,

Wow this journey through crisis just goes on and on.

October to now:

Was on Escitalopram (for about a year and a half), started having major panic attacks, doubled my dose, had a case of seretonin syndrome, tapered off completely. Endured 3 weeks of withdrawal effects but anxiety was ok. Week four the panic attacks started (coincided with my attempting to return to work) and GP decided to try me on sertraline. A week on this and I was so ill with nausea and vomiting and no sleep ended up in hospital. Went onto citalopram with fingers crossed.

I'm about 3.5 weeks into the citalopram and today ended up at the hospital again begging for help. The side effects and constant agitation and anxiety have practically killed me. Not sleeping, hardly eating and have become quite depressed as well.

So the solution they have given me is Mirtazapine which they say I can switch directly to and to take it at night as it should help me sleep. I had olanzapine in an attempt to help with this but it only did for a few days.

Encouragement please!!!

[Doze]

Welcome.

If you're taking Mirt to help sleep, stick to a lower dose - 15mg and below. It's said that 7.5 is more sedating than 15. Basically the more you take the less sedating it becomes as the elevating properties of the AD overwhelm it's sedative secondary function. As a proper AD it only really becomes effective at 30mg. So it's somewhat of a trade off for what you want for now.
I'd recommend starting low and seeing how it goes. It's very sedating for the first few days, this passes fairly quickly but some find it leaves them feeling foggy headed for quite a while. Take it an hour or so before bed.

[sandie]

I agree with Doze - start as low as you feel able - even if it means cutting a 15mg in half and only taking 7.5 mg at night. This should provide you with the sedating effect and help avoid any unpleasant side effects. If you increase to 15 mg, do this slowly allowing at least 2-3 weeks in between increases.

Increasing in 7,5 mg increments might seem strange, but as someone now withdrawing from Mirt, it is what I would recommend. Mirt can (but not for all) prove very elevating and cause heightened anxiety.

My GP advised I take mine at least 60-90 minutes before bedtime.

[Shazamataz]

Thanks guys,


So, I took 15 and prescribed at about 8.30 pm. Really dopey by ten and went to bed. Slept til one and have been wide awake for three hours :( Not feeling anxious as such but having the shivery body feelings I associate with the sertraline. I'm really run down as haven't been able to eat and body temp regulation is a bit mucked up. Maybe next time I will try 7.5?

My tablets are 30 mg so not sure about cutting them in quarters?

[sandie]

Mmm - the pill cutting will be an issue if you only have 30 mg tablets. Is this your starting dose because it does seem rather high ?

Is there some way you can go back to your GP and ask for some 15 mg tablets which you can cut in half ?

All of my research suggests that 7.5 mg is probably the best for aiding good sleep and my experience would agree with this.

I would never dream of telling you what is best, and I certainly would not want to deter you from taking a med which may well help you, but again, I would suggest you move up the dosage scale VERY slowly. You may even find that 7,5 mg works so well for sleep it aids you in combating your anxiety and or depression.

I just so wish this was the advice I had been given, instead of meekly following my GP's instructions of starting at 15 mg and upping it to 30mg within 2 weeks.

[Doze]

I found the 15mg in one go was too stimulating at first, so I take it in smaller doses over an hour or so. If you've got a small sharp knife you can cut the pills into quarters. I'd suggest trying 7.5 and seeing how that goes. It should help you sleep hopefully but if you want to later take the other 7.5 you can. When it does work be prepared to be sleeping 10 to 12 hours.

A fairly low dose of Mirt and the initial sedation really helped keep my anxiety at a fairly manageable level. Obviously this medication will come with some side effects, like feeling muddled or overly tired for a while, but these are all preferable to no sleep and unchecked anxiety.

Also. Makes sure you try and have a routine sleep time, relax before bed, all the usual stuff. The Mirt will help you sleep but you need to help it as well.

As Sandie says, it would be a good idea to go back and ask for 15mg pills. Also you should decide now if you're taking this just to help you sleep or as a AD. I got pretty confused when I started taking Mirt. So from personal experience I would say make a decision now and then stick to it, because that will also help you stabilise.

[Shazamataz]

I found the 15mg in one go was too stimulating at first, so I take it in smaller doses over an hour or so. If you've got a small sharp knife you can cut the pills into quarters. I'd suggest trying 7.5 and seeing how that goes. It should help you sleep hopefully but if you want to later take the other 7.5 you can. When it does work be prepared to be sleeping 10 to 12 hours.

A fairly low dose of Mirt and the initial sedation really helped keep my anxiety at a fairly manageable level. Obviously this medication will come with some side effects, like feeling muddled or overly tired for a while, but these are all preferable to no sleep and unchecked anxiety.

Also. Makes sure you try and have a routine sleep time, relax before bed, all the usual stuff. The Mirt will help you sleep but you need to help it as well.

As Sandie says, it would be a good idea to go back and ask for 15mg pills. Also you should decide now if you're taking this just to help you sleep or as a AD. I got pretty confused when I started taking Mirt. So from personal experience I would say make a decision now and then stick to it, because that will also help you stabilise.

Oh to sleep 10-12 hours!!!!

I'm a bit muddled this morning as have been up since 1, it's 8.30 now. Have had terrible trembling since about 3 am. Do you think this may be because the starting dose is too high?

They said yesterday at the hospital they thought I was proving too sensitive to seretonin (citalopram). And so that has been stopped cold, was only on it just over three weeks. Yesterday evening the trembling was a lot less, perhaps because I hadn't had the citalopram in the morning. Now it's back with a vengence. Does Mirt cause this as well?

---------- Post added at 08:31 ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 ----------

I will add, I have been having severe anxiety since october so am really medicating for that. However, since mucking around with medications the anxiety has become significantly worse, 24/7 instead of panic attacks. And sleep has become a major issue. So, I'm never going to feel good if I can't sleep as we all know this makes anxiety worse. So my thinking is that the main job of the mirt for now is to get some sleep?

[Istherehope?]

What a horrible few months you've had :( Mine has been similar - side effects after 5 weeks of Citalopram were so bad in October I was also switched immediately to 15mg Mirt and stopped the Citalopram straight away.

However I found the first night on 15mg I slept for over 12 hours so it seems your body didn't respond in quite the same way - it might still be getting rid of the Citalopram of course, or it might be the Mirt. Obviously we can't advise really, but Doze and Sandie have a lot of experience with finding a dose that works for sleep for them and 7.5mg does seem to be good for sleep for a lot of people.

Are you able to speak to a doctor tomorrow? I really hope tonight is better for you. Let us know how you're doing.

[Doze]

Yep, I had severe anxiety and hadn't been sleeping when I started taking Mirt and it did eventually knock me out for many hours. And it had me dreaming all sorts of crazy stuff. I think it will work for you too Shaz.

Like Sandie said we really can only give you the benefit of our experiences with Mirt, and offer some moral support. It really is up to you and the medical professionals treating you to decide what's best for you.

Everyone will react in there own way. There are people on here who take a high dose and it's working for them as an AD and it helps them sleep. Then there are people like me and Sandie who didn't react well to the higher dose. Sandie is giving it up slowly, whilst I've managed to get through a rough patch on a lower dose, but it's only just keeping a lid on things for now, I am going to have to try adding another AD at some point.

It sounds like you've been through the ringer lately and my heart goes out to you. I don't personally remember any trembling but others may. I think it's a pretty common symptom of high stress. I know before I started taking Mirt I was very tense and shaking because I was highly anxious, but the Mirt helped ease that. I could give you a list of all the symptoms I do get, or think, I'm getting from the Mirt but that's not going to help you any right now.

I think it's always good to start on a low dose of any AD med and see how you react to it. With Mirt you get the benefit of a low dose being a good sleep aid also.

[Shazamataz]

What a horrible few months you've had :( Mine has been similar - side effects after 5 weeks of Citalopram were so bad in October I was also switched immediately to 15mg Mirt and stopped the Citalopram straight away.

However I found the first night on 15mg I slept for over 12 hours so it seems your body didn't respond in quite the same way - it might still be getting rid of the Citalopram of course, or it might be the Mirt. Obviously we can't advise really, but Doze and Sandie have a lot of experience with finding a dose that works for sleep for them and 7.5mg does seem to be good for sleep for a lot of people.

Are you able to speak to a doctor tomorrow? I really hope tonight is better for you. Let us know how you're doing.

Thanks for your input. It's so hard dealing with all this and wonderful to be able to vent and get support and also give it where needed. I've had anxiety for most of my adult life (45 now) but this is worse than anything I've ever experienced and it seems to be snowballing with every failed attempt to get relief. Of course my health has suffered and this just adds to the stress/anxiety and there doesn't seem to be an end to it. And then other issues like having to quit work are piling up. Will perservere with the Mirt as I have to do something, but this morning I was ready to give up on all of it.

My own GP is away until next week. I kind of don't see any point now in speaking to a doc every time things are bad because nothing seems to help. I'm just going to have to find it in myself to get through this!

Out of curiosity what were your side effects on Citalopram? How are things going for you now?

---------- Post added at 11:11 ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 ----------


Yep, I had severe anxiety and hadn't been sleeping when I started taking Mirt and it did eventually knock me out for many hours. And it had me dreaming all sorts of crazy stuff. I think it will work for you too Shaz.

Like Sandie said we really can only give you the benefit of our experiences with Mirt, and offer some moral support. It really is up to you and the medical professionals treating you to decide what's best for you.

Everyone will react in there own way. There are people on here who take a high dose and it's working for them as an AD and it helps them sleep. Then there are people like me and Sandie who didn't react well to the higher dose. Sandie is giving it up slowly, whilst I've managed to get through a rough patch on a lower dose, but it's only just keeping a lid on things for now, I am going to have to try adding another AD at some point.

It sounds like you've been through the ringer lately and my heart goes out to you. I don't personally remember any trembling but others may. I think it's a pretty common symptom of high stress. I know before I started taking Mirt I was very tense and shaking because I was highly anxious, but the Mirt helped ease that. I could give you a list of all the symptoms I do get, or think, I'm getting from the Mirt but that's not going to help you any right now.

I think it's always good to start on a low dose of any AD med and see how you react to it. With Mirt you get the benefit of a low dose being a good sleep aid also.

I really appreciate the encouragement. I've gotten myself into a bit of a mess with all the meds and it's hard to tell what's doing what. I will try and do a quarter tablet tonight and see what happens.

This morning I have managed to get out in the car and take the dogs to the park for a run around but I had my brother staying and he came with us. Not sure I would have managed it alone. Though I DID drive, which I didn't think I'd be able to do.

[Purplelavender]

Hi I am new to the site and have been on Remeron 15mg for 17 days and it really helps me sleep. I also take Clonazepam .5mg in a.m. and .5 mg in evening for the anxiety. They have put me on the Remeron to try and wean me off the Clonazepam. Some days are good the anxiety is ok and others its over the wall. I guess its still too early to tell. They say it can take 4 - 6 weeks to start working. Anyone had good luck with this combo?

Any support would be helpful.

---------- Post added at 18:18 ---------- Previous post was at 17:59 ----------


Hello all,

Wow this journey through crisis just goes on and on.

October to now:

Was on Escitalopram (for about a year and a half), started having major panic attacks, doubled my dose, had a case of seretonin syndrome, tapered off completely. Endured 3 weeks of withdrawal effects but anxiety was ok. Week four the panic attacks started (coincided with my attempting to return to work) and GP decided to try me on sertraline. A week on this and I was so ill with nausea and vomiting and no sleep ended up in hospital. Went onto citalopram with fingers crossed.

I'm about 3.5 weeks into the citalopram and today ended up at the hospital again begging for help. The side effects and constant agitation and anxiety have practically killed me. Not sleeping, hardly eating and have become quite depressed as well.

So the solution they have given me is Mirtazapine which they say I can switch directly to and to take it at night as it should help me sleep. I had olanzapine in an attempt to help with this but it only did for a few days.

Encouragement please!!!


Hi there Remeron has helped me sleep if that helps

[Shazamataz]

[QUOTE=Purplelavender;1509328]Hi I am new to the site and have been on Remeron 15mg for 17 days and it really helps me sleep. I also take Clonazepam .5mg in a.m. and .5 mg in evening for the anxiety. They have put me on the Remeron to try and wean me off the Clonazepam. Some days are good the anxiety is ok and others its over the wall. I guess its still too early to tell. They say it can take 4 - 6 weeks to start working. Anyone had good luck with this combo?

Any support would be helpful.[COLOR="blue"][QUOTE=Purplelavender;1509328]

Glad to hear it is helping you. Makes me also feel more optimistic. I am on a variety of meds and one of them is diazepam, which has stopped working. Similar to clonazepam which will be why they will want you to wean off. I'm not ready to do that yet as my system is so mucked up! Am hoping when the citalopram starts to get out of my system the mirtazipine will help. It did make me go to sleep (and so now I don't need the zopiclone which is good), I just didn't stay asleep for long. Too much anxiety and stuff going on :(

[Istherehope?]

It really is hard dealing with anxiety illness...so so hard. I'm 41 but not really experienced anything like this until a couple of years ago.

The side effects I had on Citalopram were huge anxiety, I couldn't sit still, couldn't sleep for more than a couple of hours, could hardly eat and when I did it went straight through...I could just about bear it for a couple of weeks but then it got steadily worse over five weeks. It doesn't look so bad written down but it felt like hell and I was longing to just die.

How are things for you this morning? I always find mornings the hardest. I hope you were able to sleep better last night?

xx

[sandie]

" ......Oh to sleep 10-12 hours!!!!

I'm a bit muddled this morning as have been up since 1, it's 8.30 now. Have had terrible trembling since about 3 am. Do you think this may be because the starting dose is too high?

They said yesterday at the hospital they thought I was proving too sensitive to seretonin (citalopram). And so that has been stopped cold, was only on it just over three weeks. Yesterday evening the trembling was a lot less, perhaps because I hadn't had the citalopram in the morning. Now it's back with a vengence. Does Mirt cause this as well?

---------- Post added at 08:31 ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 ----------

I will add, I have been having severe anxiety since october so am really medicating for that. However, since mucking around with medications the anxiety has become significantly worse, 24/7 instead of panic attacks. And sleep has become a major issue. So, I'm never going to feel good if I can't sleep as we all know this makes anxiety worse. So my thinking is that the main job of the mirt for now is to get some sleep?...."


Shaz - a few weeks ago I could have written what you have written. My advice would be to take it very slowly with the Mirtazapine. The trembling is exhausting - I know I still suffer especially when I am tired if I have had a bad night's sleep.

Mirt doesn't suit everyone - and it can exaggerate any agitation which might already be present. Do talk to your GP and consider sticking with a low dose and increasing very slowly in small amounts if you decide to stick with it.

If you want to take Mirt initially to aid with sleep then I would recommend 7,5 mg (from my own experience).

[Shazamataz]

It really is hard dealing with anxiety illness...so so hard. I'm 41 but not really experienced anything like this until a couple of years ago.

The side effects I had on Citalopram were huge anxiety, I couldn't sit still, couldn't sleep for more than a couple of hours, could hardly eat and when I did it went straight through...I could just about bear it for a couple of weeks but then it got steadily worse over five weeks. It doesn't look so bad written down but it felt like hell and I was longing to just die.

How are things for you this morning? I always find mornings the hardest. I hope you were able to sleep better last night?

xx

I think we are on opposite sides of the world so I'm just getting ready for bed now. My day started rough after having no sleep but I actually perked up a bit this afternoon and having less of the trembling which I believe was caused by the citalopram. Even though I've been on it in the past, I suppose my system has become more sensitive for various reasons like age (45 now), hormonal stuff and the severe degree of the anxiety this time.

I've actually had a bit of an appetite today, which is incredible as I've lost 7 kg in the past 3 months and am only a small person so the appetite effect of mirt may not be such a bad thing.

I totally understand the wanting to die. I am NOt suicidal or anything but I've felt so unwell I have had moments of wishing to die just so as not to feel so ill any more.

I'll pop in once I get through the night and hopefully have good news about the sleep!

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------




Shaz - a few weeks ago I could have written what you have written. My advice would be to take it very slowly with the Mirtazapine. The trembling is exhausting - I know I still suffer especially when I am tired if I have had a bad night's sleep.

Mirt doesn't suit everyone - and it can exaggerate any agitation which might already be present. Do talk to your GP and consider sticking with a low dose and increasing very slowly in small amounts if you decide to stick with it.

If you want to take Mirt initially to aid with sleep then I would recommend 7,5 mg (from my own experience).

I really appreciate your input. The trembling has been horrible and I believe the citalopram was the culprit. Nowhere near as bad today once I got up.

I have decided to take just 7.5 now, or as close as I can get to cutting the tablet up. It wasn't my GP who prescribed this and she would be more aware to go gentle on me than an unknown doc at the hospital. Unfortunately she is away on holiday so I can't check with her. But I know I had to stop with the SSRIs.

I've been hungry today for the first time in weeks so that's a bit exciting. I guess that means the Mirt did something, just didn't keep me asleep. I'm trying to be optimistic about tonight. Even 5 hours would be better than 3! Though I also think the not eating has affected the sleep as I can't sleep when hungry but, of course, felt too sick to eat. Going to bed on a full (ish) belly tonight. Fingers crossed!

[Lan69]

Sounds like your body has been through a lot with all the med changes
This happened to me too. Since march I was on the med merry go round. Restarted citalopram and had a nightmare 10 weeks (30mg) and ended up in hospital. The cit was tapered off over a week and mirt was started, 15 mg first week then up to 30mg. This helped but not enough so sert was added. Lasted 1 week ended up back in hospital. They upped the sert and it was terrible. I couldn't sit still was so agitated and constantly pacing. They tapered off the sert and introduced pregablin. This stopped most of the physical symptoms so now it's mainly just mental anxiety I have it's like my mind is anxious but my body is not responding. So over a 6 month period I tried 4 different meds I was also on diazapam and zoplicone too which I was tapered off.
Now I am sort of settled on my meds, not 100% but in a much better place than I was

[Istherehope?]

Ah yes, you're from New Zealand! Will have to remember the time difference :)

Feeling hungry is a good sign - like you I lost a lot of weight on Cit and like you I'd used it before and it had really helped (after the initial start up side effects). The psychiatrist I saw didn't think I should try any other SSRIs after my experience with Citalopram the second time around and looking at the ones you tried I think they were all SSRIs so maybe your body can't tolerate them either.

Anyway, hoping you're sleeping soundly right now x

[Doze]

So did you get some sleep Shaz??

[Shazamataz]

Today's report is a slight improvement!

I took 7.5 as suggested here and fell right to sleep when I went to bed. Woke up 2 hours later at 1 am but didn't feel panicky, actually had this weird sensation that my brain was awake but my body wouldn't move. Eventually got up for a wee and back to sleep from about 3-6 am. Then took 2 hours to even get out of bed. But wasn't lying there feeling anxious, just really zombieish!

It was very hard to get moving at all and I didn't like that feeling, BUT I did it! Went for an outing to the beach with my brother and his family and my dogs. Dragging a bit but not overly anxious. 3 hours of sun and fresh air and good company. Feels like such a step forward! Now am home and ready t try for a nap.

Don't feel nauseous any more which is such a relief! Trying to remain optimistic that am finally getting somewhere :)

[Istherehope?]

So good to hear of some improvement for you after all you've been through. I remember the Zombie feeling in the early days - I think that will pass as your body adjusts to the new meds.

It sounds like you're doing everything you can to keep going. I understand your caution though, I am only just starting to improve too and it's really hard to believe that the worst might be over.

Hope tonight is even better for you.

[MyNameIsTerry]

So good to hear of some improvement for you after all you've been through. I remember the Zombie feeling in the early days - I think that will pass as your body adjusts to the new meds.

It sounds like you're doing everything you can to keep going. I understand your caution though, I am only just starting to improve too and it's really hard to believe that the worst might be over.

Hope tonight is even better for you.

Glad to hear you are having some success, about time, eh?! I bet it feels quite a relief to finally feel that.

You've been in the meds rollercoaster so it's messed you about a lot. You need respite to see things are possible, or at least have a break, and hopefully this is it.

Addressing your Diazepam may be needed too. But if the Mirt does enough for you,. then perhaps the situation with that isn't that bad?

[Shazamataz]

Glad to hear you are having some success, about time, eh?! I bet it feels quite a relief to finally feel that.

You've been in the meds rollercoaster so it's messed you about a lot. You need respite to see things are possible, or at least have a break, and hopefully this is it.

Addressing your Diazepam may be needed too. But if the Mirt does enough for you,. then perhaps the situation with that isn't that bad?

Yep, the diazepam will be sortable I think. Have gone from 8 to 6 mg in the past couple days to no obvious effect. Will do the research to see the best way to reduce further. Hoping that as it's only been 3 months it won't be too drawn out.

Today has been pretty much anxiety free. Feel like a bit of a zombie but that's preferable to the relentless anxiety!

[Doze]

Shaz I found that I awoke a lot during Mirt induced sleep, but I found that I could lie there quite relaxed and eventually drift off again. I still often seem to wake a lot during the night, but generally I will drift off again fairly quickly.
When seemingly stuck awake I tried to foster acceptance of being awake, welcoming any negative thoughts and trying to just let them drift passed. It's not easy, but I think it helped a little. Eventually sleep seemed to come more easily.

[sandie]

Pleased to learn that the lower dose of Mirt might have resulted in some sleep.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I took 7.5 as suggested here and fell right to sleep when I went to bed. Woke up 2 hours later at 1 am but didn't feel panicky, actually had this weird sensation that my brain was awake but my body wouldn't move. Eventually got up for a wee and back to sleep from about 3-6 am. Then took 2 hours to even get out of bed. But wasn't lying there feeling anxious, just really zombieish!



I wouldn't worry about that. It sounds like sleep paralysis but it's a common sleep phenomena experienced in either the Hypnagogic (falling asleep or within 2 hours of falling asleep) or Hypnopompic (waking) states. These states are the normal ones we all have in our daily cycle and there are many sleep phenomena that anyone can experience. Whilst anxiety isn't a cause, it can make them more frequent.

Sleep abnormalities are known in many of these meds and Mirt is one.

To be honest, it's also just like how you can feel a bit sedated on many of them anyway like you are saying in your head "now get up!!!".

Try not to let these things bother you much, they go and you will lose focus on them anyway.

---------- Post added at 06:46 ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 ----------


Yep, the diazepam will be sortable I think. Have gone from 8 to 6 mg in the past couple days to no obvious effect. Will do the research to see the best way to reduce further. Hoping that as it's only been 3 months it won't be too drawn out.



I'm wondering if you are dependent after all though. If you were in withdrawal because of what dally said, you would still be feeling that and dropping it would only make it worse hence why they say increase to stabilise it and then drop.

Given you have achieved this, I think it might be that it was the other med making you far worse and the Diazepam just wasn't enough to combat it. If that's the case, you aren't tolerant to it and withdrawal should be as easy as anyone else as you won't experience withdrawal symptoms with it.

I wonder what your GP thinks about that? It's worse asking.

[sandie]

I can follow Terry's logic and 3 months is not a long time. Hopefuly the lower dose of Mirt has given you another good night's rest ?

[Shazamataz]

I will talk to my GP next week, Terry, as she is away on holiday until then. Like you say, it might be that, as opposed to being tolerant/dependent on the diazepam, the side effects of the SSRIs were so bad that the relatively low dose of diazepam wasn't enough to take the edge off and I certainly didn't want to increase it.

I've had a pretty good day today, while the morning was still a bit of an effort! Slept on and off last night but didn't feel stressed when I was awake, actually quite relaxed. No real anxiety today, despite a very stressful event. I remain optimistic I may be getting on top of things! Watch this space...

---------- Post added at 21:53 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

Sandie, I slept a bit fitfully last night but, again, wasn't anxious. Felt relaxed staying in bed and drifting in and out of sleep. And the extra bonus is that I actually feel hungry and able to eat for the first time in 5 weeks! Though probably best I don;t eat a whole packet of chocolate biscuits in one sitting every evening!

[sandie]

I lost a lot of weight on Sertraline because it made me so very anxious and is notorious for creating a lack of appetite as well as causing an upset tummy.

Within a couple of weeks of starting Mirt, my appetite returned and I was okay about this. BUT, it came back with a vengeance and I wanted to eat everything in sight ! I have had to be very careful, but have put back to the weight I lost as well as a couple of extra pounds.

Mirt is notorious for somehow creating an appetite for all of the 'bad' things - lots of unhealthy carbs. Enjoy your food again, but beware !

I think the GPs must be aware that the SSRIs often create additional agitation / increased anxiety, because it seems (as in my case), that they are prepared to prescribe diazepam or similar "to take the edge off the anxiety". Long term never a good idea. When my anxiety issues arose last September I was given a supply of 2 mg diazepam. It may only be a small dosage, but they have often helped when I have had a bad day.

Shaz - I don't think it will be difficult for you to wean off and stop, especially if you feel you are making progress with the Mirt.

[Shazamataz]

So this morning (after 4th night of Mirt) I'm feeling quite out of sorts. A bit trembly and anxious, though not entirely sure what it is! Could also be attributed to this being the first morning on my own for a while as decided to go it alone last night. Also, we are scattering Dad's ashes today.

Hoping this is just a small blip!

[sandie]

How are you today Shaz after what would have been a very emotional day ?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Sorry to hear about your dad. :hugs:

No wonder it's all been hard, this on top of the rest and all the meds!

A blip around something like this is reasonable in any of us, no matter how far along the recovery journey. Perhaps accept it for that and don't get hung up on the reasons, it's perfectly ok to feel emotional & upset about something like this.

And what you said about having a better day, unless you were downing the Diazepam, it just doesn't feel right because the withdrawal would be more powerful than the Mirt would be (surely?!).

How did dropping the Olanzapine go? There are a few people on here withdrawing or adjusting to lower doses and some have felt their emotions come flooding back or had the swings from it. Could any of this be due to that?

[Istherehope?]

Agree with Terry, I think a "blip" is to be expected around something as big as this. I hope the day was as good as it could be considering.

Also sounds like maybe you're not addicted to Diazepam - I think the theory that the side effects of the Cit may be to blame is a sound one. When I was at my worst on Cit I took 4mg Diazepam and it made no difference - I'd only ever had 2mg on two occasions in my life before then so I was definitely not addicted.

Hope you've slept and feel better today/tomorrow. Xx

[Shazamataz]

How are you today Shaz after what would have been a very emotional day ?

Hi Sandy, long story but we didn't scatter Dad's ashes. My brother and I had a bit of an argument because he was over an hour late to meet me and the dogs for a walk and it didn't then seem the right day to do it.

As a result I had quite a bit of time at home on my own and find myself getting anxious as feeling very shakey/wobbly. It's like I get a couple of days from changing meds and then all the horribleness kicks in again!

This morning (Friday here) I've been awake since 5 am, really thirsty and feeling dehydrated and quite 'buzzy'/tingly all over. Had a pounding heart at around 7.30 am hen I was just getting ready to give up and get up. Heart rate in the 90s. No idea what's going on but sure don't feel great.

---------- Post added at 09:27 ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 ----------


Agree with Terry, I think a "blip" is to be expected around something as big as this. I hope the day was as good as it could be considering.

Also sounds like maybe you're not addicted to Diazepam - I think the theory that the side effects of the Cit may be to blame is a sound one. When I was at my worst on Cit I took 4mg Diazepam and it made no difference - I'd only ever had 2mg on two occasions in my life before then so I was definitely not addicted.

Hope you've slept and feel better today/tomorrow. Xx

Yes am hoping the Diazepam is not an issue. I'm continuing to take 6mg (3mg 2x) a day until I see my GP next Tuesday. I can't feel anything at all when I take it but am still dealing with coming off citalopram and starting mirtazipine so feeling a bit iffy all round.

The day ended up fine in the sense that we didn't do the ashes (long story). I did manage to do some grocery shopping on my own, which is actually a big deal. The edginess has started back though after 3 days of relief from that. The doctor insisted I wouldn't have any withdrawal from the 3.5 weeks citalopram but I am not convinced!

This morning (friday) not feeling good at all so starting to lose hope again about getting things back on track :(

---------- Post added at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 ----------


Sorry to hear about your dad. :hugs:

No wonder it's all been hard, this on top of the rest and all the meds!

A blip around something like this is reasonable in any of us, no matter how far along the recovery journey. Perhaps accept it for that and don't get hung up on the reasons, it's perfectly ok to feel emotional & upset about something like this.

And what you said about having a better day, unless you were downing the Diazepam, it just doesn't feel right because the withdrawal would be more powerful than the Mirt would be (surely?!).

How did dropping the Olanzapine go? There are a few people on here withdrawing or adjusting to lower doses and some have felt their emotions come flooding back or had the swings from it. Could any of this be due to that?


I haven't stopped dropped the olanzapine as only on a tiny dose (2.5mg) and the doc at hospital said I could either stop or keep taking it, didn't matter. I decided to keep going to see if things settle a bit. I felt like overall they were settling but had a really rough night last night (hardly slept at all) and feeling very shakey on my feet this morning.

Keeping diaz at same dose til I see GP and/or things settle a bit.

[Istherehope?]

Sounds very hard for you right now...wish I could make things better for you as I know too well how horrendous the anxiety experience is, and how difficult it is to hang onto even the tiniest bit of hope.

I don't know how things work in NZ but is there any way your GP can refer you to any kind of psychiatric support? I guess they might say it's still very early days on the Mirt, but I hate to think of you struggling along after months of awfulness.

Hugs to you xx

[Shazamataz]

Sounds very hard for you right now...wish I could make things better for you as I know too well how horrendous the anxiety experience is, and how difficult it is to hang onto even the tiniest bit of hope.

I don't know how things work in NZ but is there any way your GP can refer you to any kind of psychiatric support? I guess they might say it's still very early days on the Mirt, but I hate to think of you struggling along after months of awfulness.

Hugs to you xx

I've been referred to a psychiatrist and waiting for an appointment. It's slow here! To be honest, though, a psychiatrist is just going to want to drug me up and I'm getting to the point where I feel the drugs are actually making everything worse so why take them? Too many side effects eh?

Am seeing my GP next Tuesday and will discuss again what to do in the meantime. But for now am tempted to stop the mirtazipine, go back to zopiclone to get me to sleep, continue on my low dose of diazepam and see what happens.

[Shazamataz]

So, it's 5 pm now (Friday) and I've survived the day after a rocky start. Took the dogs out for a walk in the rain (which I quite enjoy) late morning as was feeling very wobbly and out of sorts.

My brother and his family are in town visiting and I wasn't sure if I'd be up to seeing them today but forced myself to join them on an outing and actually coped ok. The morning horribleness seemed to subside as the day has worn on. No panic attacks, so maybe feeling wobbly for a bit while things settle is a pay off for that?

I'm still wondering about the medication combo:
Bisoprolol (similar to propanolol) mornings
Diazepam twice a day (3mg)
Olanzipine 2.5 tea time
Mirtazipine 7.5 bed time.

I should probably drop one of the night time ones (the hospital said I could stop the olanzipine but I didn't want to make too many changes at once because then you can;t tell what's doing what but they also said it was safe to take both) but unsure about which to try leaving out. Or maybe just continue.

Do you guys who have been replying to my post know anyone who has done well with the mirtazipine? Or Olanzipine for anxiety?

I can tell you that since stopping the citalopram and starting Mirt I have a ferocious appetite. Now, temporarily that is a good thing as I have some catching up to do but I sure don;t want to get fat on top of everything else!

[sandie]

I started Propanalol on Monday and and in the last 5 days it has done far more for my panic attacks and anxiety than the Mirtazapine.

Before starting the Mirtazapine I had lost quite some weight and was glad I found my appetite again, but it has been relentless and I have put the weight back on and a few extra pounds.

My experience of Mirtazapine has not been good - it increased my anxiety and agitation, and I have spent some time withdrawing from it. 7,5 at bedtime however, is meant to be the most sedating dose and should be helping a little with sleep.

Between them, the Diazepam and Bisoprolol should be helping to really calm you down. I have no idea about the olanzipine.

[MyNameIsTerry]

MrAndy, Nicola1980 and gregcool all take Olanzapine. They could probably help you out with some information there because they have been reducing theirs.

Nicola is on most days, so is Greg but Andy hasn't been on for a few weeks.

I would be cautious with a taper on it from what they have been finding. Greg & Andy have been reducing from 5mg by cutting the pills, I'm not sure about Nicola although she did reduce from 5mg as well.

It's a pretty strong med and not really for long term use if you can avoid it given the metabolic changes it can bring. All three of them have said they were raiding the cupboards on 5mg but this stopped when they reduced it. So, imagine that on top of Mirt? You would like Pac Man!

You could try bumping one of Greg's threads on the GAD board as he tends to be on there more. Nicola floats around more, often on the Ven board but anywhere if she sees something so could post in the Olanzapine board and she may see it.

I know there are others on here that take it too.

[Shazamataz]

MrAndy, Nicola1980 and gregcool all take Olanzapine. They could probably help you out with some information there because they have been reducing theirs.

Nicola is on most days, so is Greg but Andy hasn't been on for a few weeks.

I would be cautious with a taper on it from what they have been finding. Greg & Andy have been reducing from 5mg by cutting the pills, I'm not sure about Nicola although she did reduce from 5mg as well.

It's a pretty strong med and not really for long term use if you can avoid it given the metabolic changes it can bring. All three of them have said they were raiding the cupboards on 5mg but this stopped when they reduced it. So, imagine that on top of Mirt? You would like Pac Man!

You could try bumping one of Greg's threads on the GAD board as he tends to be on there more. Nicola floats around more, often on the Ven board but anywhere if she sees something so could post in the Olanzapine board and she may see it.

I know there are others on here that take it too.

Thanks Terry, I guess I just need to figure out which to take as both seems over the top. I can tell you I have been RAVENOUS since starting the Mirt which is a positive, temporarily.

I was told I could just stop the olanzipine with no issues as have only been on it for a short time but will do some research first and also speak to my GP.

[MyNameIsTerry]

This is one of the guides from the psychiatrists over here that explains about how they do it. It's got some timescales for people who can just stop them. If you've only been on a very short time, it's usually safe do that, it will say on there.

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/treatmentswellbeing/antidepressants/comingoffantidepressants.aspx