Some advice/guidance needed please.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hello everyone, I am a new to this forum but I’m not new to obsessive-compulsive disorder. I had my diagnosis last year it was confirmed by two psychotherapists and by a psychiatrist as well as having borderline personality disorder. At the moment I am struggling with the volume of intrusive thoughts and obsessions which seem to be playing out. They seem to be quite prominent at the moment which I can only surmise is due to me currently withdrawing from diazepam that I took over the Christmas period because it was a stressful time being away from home etc.

I am quite insightful and knowledgeable when it comes to my condition although I am currently struggling trying to rationalise things. Even though I am used to having intrusive thoughts about everyone & anything and they are heightened currently like I say with coming off diazepam etc There is one thing that is really troubling me at the moment & that is a harm obsession towards my mother which is making it difficult to be around her.

It's making me feel that I don’t love her. I feel like my mind is tricking me into thinking that I don’t actually love her but that I hate her which is making me obsesses/ruminate even more. It’s a vicious circle that is causing great distress which leads to further intrusive thoughts. I just feel numb and when I ask myself if this is true and try to rationalise it I can’t seem to make sense as to why, the real root cause behind the obsession. Is there underlying anger? etc. I just feel that this is taking over my real self and taking over the rational part of my brain and I just don’t know what to believe anymore. I feel genuinely detached from my real self and I am terrified because having the intrusive harm thoughts is one thing but then thinking that I dislike and hate my mum is as equally distressing. I’m trying my best to keep occupied and busy at the moment by attending a lot of self help groups through the week and I’m waiting for long-term therapy.

I guess I could just appreciate some feedback as to what you think this could symbolise. I know obviously you don’t know me and I am willing to expand on any questions that you have to put my way but I just am just really struck with this at the moment and I don’t know if it is normal to feel to this degree the way I feel with me questioning my emotions & feelings towards a person because I have not come across this before regardless of my knowledge and insight. I know that there is a likely chance of it being further psychological trickery playing out possibly to get my attention but I’m just curious to see what you think and would appreciate any advice/feedback on the matter. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[TomT]

Welcome to the forum golden!

The very fact that you are worrying about this means, you dont hate or feel an underlying hate towards her. Have you ever felt worry when you hated someone? Probably not. You are dealing with some HOCD some OCD issues are not solve by logic but with emotions, think how bad you would feel if you hurt your mother.

Dont worry buddy you are fine, there is no such anger or hate, there is just worry and fear. Anxiety loves to feed from those emotions


Tom

[Goldenbuddha001]

Thank you for taking the time to respond Tom. Much appreciated.

It would make sense that it's harm ocd trying to trick my own beliefs/perspective. Like I say socialising has become incredibly difficult as a result. Whenever I have seen her particularly afterwards the mind goes into complete overdrive with the harm thoughts & analyses/magnifies every thought/things she said in conversation/actions etc.

I feel guilty for thinking the way I do & then in the next instance I feel numb/like I don't care especially when I re-read the line 'Think how bad you would feel if you hurt your mother'. I find my mind constantly testing my reactions to the instrusive actions my brain seems to be producing. This particular obession has really got its claws into me & I am admittedly struggling to get through the days no matter what I apply my mind to doing. Even expressing sad emotion I am finding myself questioning whether it is sincere or not. Horrible. I am in total agreeance that it's how emotionally respond to the thoughts that is the issue.
When I have reasoned with the rational part there is always a part of my brain that says but wait... there is this or that aspect. Complete torture. etc

[TomT]

Remember most not to say all OCD related disorders are ego-dystonic (this one I learned from Terry). This means it makes you fear exactly what you wouldn't do, you would never hurt your mother for the very fact you are afraid of it. People that wanna hurt their mothers, are not afraid of the thought or if they are afraid is about what its going to happen to them, not around the damage they cause to another person.

It seems you are in a bad cycle to my understanding, an intrusive thought comes, you make some checkings to see how yo react, anxiety confuses your response or interpretation of emotions, you feel numb and start isolating yourself due to the fear of harming others. Remember you are not going to hurt them, so exposing yourself to being around them its the best way to tackle this issue, it might be hard at first but you will get the grip really fast.

Deep inside you know how you feel and its totally normal to feel certain numbness due to the stress caused by this thoughts, but this too shall pass. Thoughts are just that, thoughts. OCD latches to your fear so you can avoid it, its a normal response of our bodies but our minds take it a few step further.

Anxiety might make you think you can become a monster but the truth is you are far from becoming that, and this goes to anyone here. Real monsters do not fear, they just act not caring about others.

Tom

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Golden and welcome to NMP :welcome:

Can I tell you what I see here?

I see someone concerned about their thoughts & emotions and what they could mean or turn her into. I see someone who values her relationship with her mother because she cares what she may do if these thoughts could do that. I see someone who worries about violence.

I also see you have BPD. PD's are known to be much more ingrained into identity and so changing them is a harder piece of work than with an anxiety disorder alone. The updated form of CBT that works on this is DBT which was created to add in emotional work. That makes sense and you mention how emotions are a struggle. So, therapy is a good choice here because you will need to do lots of work on changing beliefs to sort out the BPD. But you come across as very calm, intelligent & rational, not someone falling to pieces as some people with PD's seem to come across or with views of their anxiety that are so strong no matter what we say we can't seen to get things across to them. This seems to be a really good indicator to how you will tackle your BPD and it seems like you already are.

Aside from that, back to the intrusive thoughts. Tom has told you lots of important stuff. He told you how intrusive thoughts, in medical literature, are categorised as "ego dystonic" which means the opposite of true beliefs, character and schemas. You should think about that. With a PD, your schemas & beliefs can be affected (it depend on your diagnosis since BPD is less specific than some other forms) yet you have this deep moral belief that violence to your mother is wrong. This is why it scares you.

I often explain it this way, you have a load of associations in your subconscious which are made up of many things including memories. When there is a trigger, checks get made against these. If it can't find an appropriate match, or the stimuli suggests something that must have a conscious decision, then the subconscious just fires of all the "data" to conscious mind which is really just "I don't know what to do, please tell me". You react with fear/panic/anxiety/worry, etc and it slowly teaches the subconscious that it should associate these thoughts, feelings, sensations, emotions, etc together. The more this happens, the more these are then also sent through to conscious brain again saying "here it is, what do I do". Now, you would think that if you train your subconscious to associate these, you would change them to become your new beliefs? Incorrect. Why? Because you have things like schemas and these are linked to your deeper sense of identity - things like right & wrong learnt at an early age. So, even though all this gets associated together, there is still a check against this criteria and it fails and sends it for a conscious decision. If you are familiar with computer programming and how exception handling works, you will see what I mean as that mirrors a lot of this.

Deep down you know that it is fundamentally wrong. So, unless you change that very deep belief, you will not act on them. Don't worry about that change either because these are so deep and connected to who you are that you are talking about the kind of brainwashing we see in films to achieve it.

A problem that can develop from this, one I've observed in several new people on this board since being here, and all had either POCD or harm based OCD. (HOCD is often for the gay/lesbian subtype, so I use this instead). They start raising threads about how these thoughts scare them and what they could mean. If you keep an eye on these threads for some time you start to see that their fears change away from this to a) lack of feeling/mood issues often seen as not caring or b) a feeling of even "liking" or wishing/willing it to happen.

I have been through both a) & b) myself and my pattern matches to those I have seen on here. What I attribute this to is time & exposure. They keep experiencing all of this and through all the mistakes they unintentionally make (like the checking & analysing) they allow their subconscious to make further associations to strengthen these negative beliefs and this responds in these types of changes. They almost feel like the thoughts are expected and then they panic that they truly are turning into X or Y as they no longer panic over it or they get confused sensations/thoughts about the "liking" and panic over it as they belief they wish/will things to happen. What does that all mean about them? I am truly changing? It's all the same questions. I've been through it and come out the other side. What they say, how they talk about themselves, it's just like how I was except I have the benefit of coming through it. (like many other people)

So, emotions & thoughts get confused. I can see that in your posts. You are doing a lot of mental checking & questioning (compulsions) and these are just strengthening the disorder because the subconscious ONLY looks for negatives. By providing them, you complete the cycle. I often describe this as validation. The subconscious sees the thoughts as "valid", not "right". It has no concept of right outside of those beliefs & schemas I mentioned earlier, correct otherwise comes from the conscious brain.

You tend to have two options:

1) Challenge thoughts the CBT way. This means counter evidence, use a Thought Record. You challenge the evidence for the belief/thought with counter evidence and come up with a closing statement. This is an excellent way of getting the thought out of your head and into the physical world and I have found this can help because it makes it less likely for your conscious mind to work through a problem to solve it only to start again.

2) Observe thoughts. This is the Mindfulness way. Acceptance is part of this, hence acceptance strategies work too. Observing thoughts means neutrality. Option 1) above was about positive or neutral feedback, this one is about attributing nothing to it other than "a thought is just a thought with no meaning". You treat it with no more interest than any other thought that pops into your head, like walking through a supermarket and thinking "I need more milk". Why should that affect you? It won't because it's a reasonable thought and we want our subconscious to see your violent thoughts as the same. This doesn't mean agreeing with them, that's a different strategy therapist use which I have less knowledge of, but this one means to just let it float away without reaction.

I do, or have done both, but option 2) sorted my intrusive thoughts. They don't just go though and this is something you need to learn. ALL people have intrusive thoughts and research studies have confirmed this, people just don't realise it because they fly through so fast. So, it is a negative goal to say "I want them 100% gone" because you can't achieve it. There is always the possibility of strange thoughts. We get many. But what you can do is reduce their frequency & intensity.

Over time you see your reaction change too. I started smiling or laughing at how ludicrous mine were. I could give you a graphic example of one of mine and a stranger and I smiled automatically. The same with self harm ones with bridges. From here, things changed further and then they were rare.

So, through addressing them, be aware that these things happen but it doesn't mean you are turning into a monster, it can just be part of the recovery journey and how your subconscious it attempting to construct new core beliefs to these thoughts. ]

If you have read about core beliefs and read about the neuro side of anxiety, you will knows it's all neurons and the synapses that connect them. They build off each other in strands, create layers, etc. So, in changing core beliefs, they can seem a bit garbled at first but just keep going and the new one will form. It's a bit like those old telephone exchanges with the women pulling plugs out and inserting them in others to make connections.

Knowledge is important with Pure O style OCD, because you question a lot of things about what this all means but what if it's just part of resolving it? Some don't realise this, start to panic and undo the hard work hence why I've tried to give a lot of info.

Well done on those self help groups. Isn't that another point showing you know things need to change?

My last point is, do you know any violent people? Do you think they would be on here asking what you are? I have known violent people, I grew up in a rough city. Like Tom says, they only "get religion" when it suits them. They find remorse when it comes to reducing a sentence. True, some people reform but that takes a big shift and remember those schemas & beliefs? Many violent people were always that way. It's normal to them. They won't panic over harming someone and they might even enjoy it. Is that you? No chance, you wouldn't be on here for a start and the things you are talking about wouldn't enter the heads of the nutters I have met I my life. Some would be bragging about what they did as you lay in a coma.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed and eloquent response. You mentioned DBT. I am in the process of waiting for some psychodynamic treatment (Democratic therapeutic community) but it could be up to a 12 months wait but I am hoping that I hear from them in a few months time as to where I'm up to on that waiting list. It's been roughly 5 months now so I am hoping they will invite me for an assessment soon. It would appear I am a likely candidate for such treatment which will help delve into past traumas and particularly focus on the borderline side of things so it's going to be quite intensive treatment which potentially could last up to 15 months. I am eager for this to commence. I have had 20 weeks CBT last year & I am currently waiting for further CBT which should hopefully take place in February. In essence 20 weeks of cbt doesn't sound a great deal but it is a source of help as you know that helps with beneficial coping mechanisms. I think with some individuals it may take a serious of attempts for it to click & perhaps resonate with the strategies provided. I have kept all my notes that I made from last years sessions but finding it hard to incorporate it into my daily life due to the intensity of anxiety & poor concentration levels. I am currently experiencing being in a bit of rut with the emphasis being as you know on my mother. What makes it harder & more complex is that I feel incredibly irritated by her, or maybe I am just highly irritable in general & the anxiety is making me somehow believe that she is contributing towards it which fuels the anxiety further.

I am quite a strong willed person so I believe I will get through this it's just trying to rationalise myself through it. I was on that many different medications last year to assist as a temporary hand rail but none of which have helped, if anything they have magnified my symptoms & subsequently made me feel quite poorly. It would appear that I am quite sensitive to most pharmaceutics so I am currently without anything. My body most likely doesn't know where it's at & most likely still experiencing the come down of the Valium. I really don't like taking that either due to the problem of dependency & long term use isn't advised.

I have abstained from self medicating with cannabis/smoking & been clean for nearly a year & six months now.
Absolutely do I internally recognise that something needs to change, you're most certainly right there, that's why I have taken it upon myself to be pro active in getting out & attending self help groups 3-4 times a week. The structure/routine really helps whilst I await my treatment.

I have come an incredibly long way with the OCD playing through various themes particularly last year. The harm theme seems to be the hardest to deal with no matter how much I try accept its existence.



I really do appreciate the extremely helpful feedback, definitely some food for thought in what you have expressed & have found myself today reverting back this thread.

Best wishes Terry mate.

---------- Post added at 03:18 ---------- Previous post was at 00:47 ----------



---------- Post added at 03:19 ---------- Previous post was at 03:18 ----------

I have just noticed Terry that you have confused me with another user on here 'KJX' in another thread. Even though there are some eerily strong similarities in the content of this persons post may I firmly establish we are not the same person, I only have one account on here plus I don't have a brother! Lol.

Anyway I hope that this thread helps that individual with their current situation.

[MyNameIsTerry]

No problem Golden, as explained I have updated that thread to address the confusion.

I'm glad if any of what I have said helps you. I've looked into my OCD, and that of others too, as I think it's vital as some of the forms could easily be mistaken for something more sinister. POCD is one that certainly scares people that join here and who wouldn't be, given the emotive content. Harm-based is very similar in that respect, it's one of the shockers given the potential consequences to your life and others of that perception that you could act.

I found it takes the sting out a but just realising that it's documented in OCD and to at least consciously know the truth. Then comes the hard battle to convince your subconscious!

There are a couple of other members on here with PD's, one I've seen has BPD. My therapist thought I may have Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) because I had the minimum 4 of it's criteria. But after doing some of my own research (she said it was above her level to diagnose and was discharging me anyway at that point back to my GP) I found out that it's not just about the criteria, it's about the mindset too and I didn't hold the views expected in OCPD that would make me so resistant to therapy. My resistance issues are more common to GAD & OCD and seen on this forum in many, if not all, others.

So, it must be even harder for you needing to tackle these too. I hope you get into that group soon to get working on it. Is that one of those peer groups where you work together against the problems? Group work seems very useful as there is solidarity with others. Some people on here have had group CBT and said it helped them being in a group. I used to go to walk-in groups at a local charity before I came here and found them very useful but in a different way.

I agree with you on the CBT. I had 12 sessions and a couple of follow up reviews. The reviews were really for them though. I didn't get far I CBT but my therapist introduced me to Mindfulness and I kept this going. Months after my CBT ended I started wanting to work on early goals that I just couldn't start in the CBT. If I had gone back into CBT later, I would have made a lot more progress. I think for me, my GAD was making my OCD fever pitch and by employing Mindfulness I also managed to pull the rug from under it by reducing my overall anxiety levels. This meant working on my OCD more directly became easier and this was when I started to see a great reduction in the intrusive thoughts.

I've spoken to others on here with OCD or GAD & OCD. They say the same about the overall anxiety level issue spiking their OCD. It's common sense really when you think about it. I watch the HA board quite a lot too and I've seen them suffer the same. OCD is one of the disorders under the HA banner (HA isn't the name of a disorder afterall) and many of them have obsessive-compulsive traits and/or cycles. When something in their life adds stress, their HA often spikes, just like us.

Anxiety makes us irritable and what I think is that we have less boundaries with our loved one than we tend to with strangers. Some people have none with stranger and would treat people badly without worry but I think we are sensitive caring people and we wouldn't. Loved ones tend to snap and same things that cut us more and I just think it's how the boundaries fade away easier in arguments or under pressure. So, I can understand how it would interfere with the rest for you and I remember some of this myself when I became irritated with mine. I've also had irrational outbursts and this is just not like me. This goes though as your anxiety decreases overall, I've not had those problems for years now and it was only at the worst stages.

Well done for stopping the cannabis/smoking too. It's very tempting and I think obsessive-compulsive disorders lend themselves to addictive or self harming behaviour. I think the self harming element is the cycles themselves and how we keep ourselves trapped in them, like a form of mental self harm, if that makes sense?

Meds are a tricky one. I doubt there is an expert out there who could determine what is best for each individual, it's all so unique to each person. Everyone on here says that. Some meds I think are more "activating" than others based on what exactly they interact with. SNRI's are a good example of this. I'm on Duloxetine and before I started the 60mg dose I only had some obsessive issues with my work that had increased as I started to relapse and my traits that had always been there and never bothered me. I later learnt that 60mg is when that med changes from just a SSRI to work with norepinephrine (adrenaline) and all my agitation started at this point. Within weeks all the OCD exploded into compulsions I never had. I've spoken to others on here who have said the same about increased OCD or just OCD out of nowhere. We all know they can do this at the start but to do it on a more permanent basis is a big problem.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Terry, apologies for the late response.

I had group CBT therapy last year. I had one-to-one initially and then I began group CBT. There were three other individuals who attended the group and just as I was starting to really get into it we reached the 10 week mark and that was it. I extracted some positives but it seems to be the policy now particularly in the area I'm located (due to long waiting lists/people to be seen quicker) to have 8-10 week sessions. So, the group psychotherapist concluded that I would benefit from this DTC which I found out yesterday I could now be waiting up to 9-10 months. They could well have an open day before then so I may have an opportunity to meet the team.


In regards to medication I tried nine different types last year reluctantly after about a decade of not resorting to pharmaceutics but I guess when you reach levels of desperation you reconsider certain things & it came to mind that perhaps I may have overlooked a few meds that I hadn't previously tried, plus there is nothing wrong with having a temporary hand rail to assist you whilst you're in recovery. Like you say, everyone's body chemistry is different as to how they respond to things. It's a bit like trial & error really. I have tried different SSRIs/antidepressants/antipsychotics & it confirmed to me that I am quite sensitive to medication & found that it exacerbated & magnified my symptoms which as a result with one particular med (Sertraline) was the catalyst for me being in hospital as an in patient for over a month for the first time in my life. It was a profound experience to say the least but if that hadn't of happened I probably would of been left by the wayside, wouldn't have had my diagnosis & also in the addition to that I wouldn't have the therapeutic relationship that I do with my psychiatrist, who's the most competent & genuinely caring shrink I have ever had the privilege to meet.

I have not taken a diazepam for nearly two weeks now so I am still feeling the withdrawal effects from that and like I mentioned in my previous message my irritability/anxiety is pretty bad. I know deep down though that any positive effect that perhaps I once had from taking it has long gone, the last one I took made me feel a bit manic.


Admittedly as I am composing this message I am feeling hugely anxious about later today which is my usual routine to go weekly shopping with my mum & since September the day & night before that occurs my anxiety just absolutely goes into overdrive, complete pandemonium & I find myself experiencing different emotions all at once.

It feels like I'm angry & frustrated, past occurrences/events/past hurts/traumas with my Mum play out on a loop. It's becoming increasingly hard I feel at this point in time to be around her specifically because of how strong the intrusive thoughts are with what feels like anger & frustration, I just feel a deep sense of dread by all the different thoughts in my head which urges me to try and avoid the situation which I know effectively is gonna make it worse, or, to basically break away from the relationship altogether & to sever ties.

I just don't know what to do about it really. I'm trying so hard to keep myself mentally occupied by having a good & balanced structure to my week. I am passionate about music especially and I am even struggling to even listen to that whilst doing my art work because I find myself being swamped under by the thoughts. :weep:

[Goldenbuddha001]

P.s. From my own experience I found Duloxetine difficult to take. It brought out other obsessional behaviours! By the way, does 'HA' stand for Harm anxiety?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Golden,

Lots of people on here show how NHS CBT is getting shorter & shorter. I had 12 sessions but I've seen a far few have 6. God knows how the NHS think that is going to help. I've only heard one person on here so far who said it did.

It's what we get with the creation of IAPT. Quick access but it comes at the price of shorter therapy to keep the momentum. IAPT gets criticised for quality too. My CBT taught me very little, looking back it was more a long self help course. The therapist was very nice though. I wonder if IAPT therapists are just lost fighting against cases too complex for them.

I just can't get my head around SNRI's like Duloxetine and Venlafaxine. I can't see how increasing adrenaline in someone with too much already being a good thing. Yet, they help some people. Sadly, my GP insisted it was "my anxiety" despite it all happening so quickly after that dose and many of the symptoms I have, and still do, deal with have come from that point. I trusted him, I knew nothing back then. Speaking to people on here opened my eyes to meds and so I started researching from there.

Sertraline has done that to others on here. MrAndy has talked about his experience doing much the same to him. Some people say the same on Citalopram, some on Mirtazapine, etc. It's just a minefield with all the experts guessing. Sadly, the meds rollercoaster can be damaging like you say and all that team makes all the underpinnings worse.

HA stands for Health Anxiety on here. There is another board for it, the busiest by far on NMP since I joined, and some people on there have OCD too. HA is a misunderstood condition really, there is no such thing in the major medical manuals, it's an umbrella term used to make it sound easier I guess.

How did it go on your shopping trip? Like you say, avoidance will certainty make it harder by associating your fear to her even more. Some of us just can't avoid our triggers even if we wanted to, we have to interact with them. This makes it so hard because it's like you are taking a constant pounding alongside trying to help yourself.

I guess the anger & frustration is not only fuelled by past scenarios but also in how you are frustrated with yourself over your mental health? BPD must make it much harder too?

There are plenty of people on here who will understand how you feel about your healthy hobbies. Nothing was enjoyable for me at the worst of it and I also couldn't think of anything to be bothered even trying. For me, the symptoms were the worst and the compulsions from the OCD. I coped better with the intrusive thoughts and some of the thinking. Things change though in some stages and one became worse than the other or perhaps just became more apparent as it was no longer masked by a greater one.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Terry thank you for your response. Your feedback is greatly appreciated at the moment.

The shopping trip went okay thanks, I got what I needed basically, I usually go back with my mum to my folks house but I didn't on this occasion because Wednesday night I must of had at best about five hours sleep so I was really tired which affected my energy levels and it wasn't due to avoidance. As previously mentioned I am always anxious at the build up prior to the day so the night before I felt pretty bad and have ever since really, been feeling quite down & depressed about the situation. With the many difficult themes that have played out of recent times this seems to be the hardest. I feel it's getting increasingly difficult to cope with.

It is likely that the anger and frustration I am experiencing is a reaction to the overall situation like you pointed out. It has felt like a struggle to sort of ascertain as to the origins of the emotions & the psychological questioning having me believe that I feel such overpowering uncertainty to the point where I am thinking the condition is manifesting into something more complex which is a common theme in OCD sufferers as you know. The fear of it escalating into something bigger and greater than I'll be able to continue coping with, Ie.) I will be so overcome with anger that I will act physically, the feeling of hatred will lead me to act upon negative urges.

Even having communication with her via text through the week is an unpleasant trigger.
When I did see her initially I felt irritable in her presence, that subsided slightly as we got on with what we had planned. What I am struggling with is the volume of thoughts/obsessional patterns whilst being alone though the week before & after I see her. As much as I love my independence I do live alone, & it can be incredibly hard at times but I do possess that determination to continue helping myself keep busy as much as possible. I recognise that my brain will keep producing the same thoughts but I just can't seem to get a handle on this particular harm obsession towards my Mother.

I see my Dad also a few times in the week & that has started to be a trigger/reminder of the situation to the point where I want to emotionally break down. I can talk to him quite easily but just as I feel drained & sick of my thought process I have become just as equally sick & tired of verbalising it all.


Since returning from being away over Christmas there is something within me that fears being back in hospital again which is probably understandable given the fact that it is currently the anniversary of me being in there a year ago.
I don't have many people to talk to about this, in the groups I am attending I find myself holding myself back slightly from talking about the specific details.


Love
Golden.

[Goldenbuddha001]

*Bump*

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Golden,

It's not surprising you had trouble sleeping, I've had loads of that myself with appointments and my GAD. Then you feel rough the next day and can't seem to shake off the physical feelings & brain fog until later in the day. It reduces your mental resilience too.

This theme is close to home with it being about a loved one. This can make them harder to deal with since the checking/touching forms tend to be more frustrating than anything but you know with forms like this anything bad is either an unknown fear or something unpleasant and it's seldom as scary as the Pure O side in terms of outcomes. One look at the HA board shows how terrified some people are about contracting HIV/AIDS or getting a serious illness.

Anxiety likes to probe for your weak spots and it likes to keep prodding at them until it finds one shocking enough to provoke the response it's looking for. So, sometimes people seem to move between themes and sometimes this happens where it hits on a very sensitive one.

Feeling irritable in the presence of a trigger is likely going to be the case for many of us. We are being forced into something we don't want to confront and anxiety can be a catalyst for other emotions like frustration, anger, hopelessness, mood change, etc. But you did see if subside though and that's important. Whilst panic just can't keep going, due to the spike of adrenaline, anxiety at higher levels can go much much longer as you probably have felt. For it to even reduce shows some evidence that it is possible.

If your parents are together then I guess it's an association thing, it's obvious your parents are going to connected in that way in your memory/subconscious. With this not being a main trigger you should have more scope to work on it if the anxiety is less. So, using the challenging self talk might help there as you are not spiked like you are when it is your mum.

Yes, the constant mind chatter can be a real problem at more heightened stages. I think this is a bit of a cycle to break free of and inserting things to try to keep you busy or focus on something else may help here. If you have a lot of alone time, your mind has too much time on it's hands so filling some of that time, even in blocks through the day, might help yo reduce this over time. It may take a while to achieve that, as it did with mine, and I think it's about relearning that you don't need it all the time, hence things like the blocks of time on something more productive to encourage your mind to spend less time in that autopilot mode of chatter.

Anniversary dates do cause this in other people on here. I had it just a little with mine but I had other things to worry about. Other people on here have talked about it. Some have also been in hospital and the anniversary has triggered some of those memories. The fact is though, what happened before does not mean it has to happen again and if you needed to be in there, wouldn't you already?

It's like with the anniversary of any major emotional event e.g. a death, a break up, etc depending on which one it is, and how hard it has been for you, it's natural to have rumination about such things. We just have to recognise & accept that and try to recognise when it's unhealthy. In some cases it's just a natural process i.e. grieving.

You are free to talk openly on here. With the groups I can understand it as I had some of that with the one I went to. The lack of anonymity introduces worries about whether it will be discussed outside the group and whether you could be identified. Again, this is a natural concern. I think part of this could be reduced by knowing the people in the group e.g. do they talk about embarrassing things or something they fear being judged about? And on top of this, why not speak to the group coordinator? See what they say since they will have knowledge of many individuals and groups. Perhaps they can even help you to open up about it?

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Terry, thanks again for your response. It's greatly appreciated. I am glad I've found this forum, to have the opportunity to open up has been a lifeline & also with the insight/advice you've given me it is greatly valued, once again I appreciate your feedback.

The self-help anxiety groups of which I attend weekly I have found with one or two I am happy to sometimes listen and observe, with others I feel comfortable in talking & divulging what's going on inside of me. So I guess having variation is good.

However, I did experience quite a few spikes of anxiety on Tuesday night whilst being at a particular group. I don't know if it's due to an element of paranoia on my part & the fact that I'm sensitive/feeling vulnerable at the moment, but I felt like I was being judged by two particular individuals which are quite dominant speakers within the group as it was my turn to talk due to the dynamics/rules we allow each individual in the group to speak out about how their week has been, I don't go into too much detail because I think that's what my long-term therapy will be for which I will start hopefully later this year.

But talking in the general sense about my OCD and the obsessions that are playing out the moment as you know which particularly focuses on my mum I just feel that I'm being judged due to the reactions of these particular two individuals. I just felt put off by their energy and I know the rational part of me says that if it is something within them I.e.) An issue with what I am speaking about then that's precisely what it is an issue within them and not necessarily a negative reflection of me.

I am aware that it is virtually impossible to click with every person in a group because life is not built that way, you are going to meet certain individuals that perhaps rub you up the wrong way, people's moods may be up & down, & you have to factor in there might be off days that's just the way it goes & that's just life.

I guess I am hugely wary still & feel like I can't get everything I need to off my chest.
Maybe that will come in time & my confidence will peak in speaking out in a group environment.
I feel I already contribute which is a huge step.
I guess I just felt with these particular energies in the room that day that they were going out of their way to make me feel uncomfortable, the groups themselves are not professionally run. They are facilitated by experienced volunteers, so it is all still relatively new.

I have just started over the past week to get back into mindful meditation after some time away. I have really struggled to concentrate and I haven't been able to apply my mind to it as much as I would've liked in the past year so I downloaded a few days ago an application called headspace onto my phone and it's a fantastic app. You get a 10 day trial to start with and then afterwards you can subscribe however way you wish, as there are options for monthly & annual subscriptions. Hopefully over time this will help me in being more in the present moment. So again that's another step in the right direction.



In regards to what you said about anniversary dates it makes sense, what you say again resonates. It is perfectly understandable given the time of year things are going be in the subconscious mind and play out through obsessions but I think with me feeling the way I'm feeling at the moment there is an element of desperation a strong fear that because of the intensity of how I feel that that's where I'm headed to very soon but, you're right, if I was meant to be there right now than it is likely where I would be.

The thoughts themselves as you know are distressing enough but the real problem I have is becoming more evidently clear is how I emotionally respond to them.

I feel like they're transcending into strong urges & seem to struggle in differentiating between a 'thought' & an 'urge' is it the same thing? Is it a spike in anxiety (Rush of adrenaline) tricking you to believe it an urge?? it is still something I struggle to get a complete understanding of & has never really been explained fully to me.

My mind will highlight to me for example when I am in a room with my Mum the fact that there is a knife in the drawer, my mind will try to act out the thought & will show me certain images on a loop. I can visualise myself acting out it out and I feel I have to keep doing the repetition of going over & over testing myself to see if I get the right reaction/how much it distresses me, I even find myself questioning whether or not it distresses me.

Sometimes there are conflicting reactions to the thoughts playing out in my head, 'you need to do it' 'you have to do it' 'being institutionalised would be the best thing, it's where you belong after committing the act' 'Your whole life has been leading up to this' I see my fathers reaction, I see blood & I I think of all the people I have ever known discovering my crime & their perception changing of me.

All of this worries me to the point where I just feel like I need to go hospital again which I know is not the place that will help me long term & will most likely increase & exacerbate my anxiety further, so I feel genuinely stuck depressed & spiritually void.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, that's a good app according to lots of people on here. There are some free ones too but I don't know how they compare, probably not as well. I've compiled a load of free meditations on the thread in my signature as it kept coming up a lot. Other than the odd paid app in there, they are all mp3 downloads and whilst some do overlap with each other it was to give some choice. There are tons on the Tara Brach site I added.

Some of the OCD Pure O themes are quite emotive and unless people understand them, you could get varying responses. Harm based is one as ignorant people may think you are a psycho or paranoid schizophrenic type (all the stereotypes perpetrated by the media, soaps and dramas) and imagine talking about POCD! Try explaining thoughts of that to people who don't know about it, their logical conclusion will be that the person is a paedophile. That's just because of lack of education, until I read about all these forms I had no idea myself. After spending time talking to people struggling with these thoughts I can see how afraid they are and how even approaching a doctor is a big problem as they fear how they will be judged so we can hardly expect better from the general public. It's been the same on here at times. The good thing about here though is that it's more diverse and someone acting with ignorance, which is rare, will get jumped on by concerned members.

The group I went to was a charity ran by ex & current sufferers. However, each meeting had two coordinators and they had all been sent on training for running the sessions. There is a NVQ for it. This won't mean training in mental health though so the same issues could apply. I guess asking to speak to them before or after the meeting, or contacting the charity direct, can help to understand their experience. They may need to know to deal with anything in the meeting but to be honest, unless we run education sessions, you will always get people who may form their own opinions.

It's different on here, a lot more is discussed and no one is really watching. The OCD rules are constantly broken and to be honest, I don't think they should even be valid anymore as they seem to reflect old opinions. I've not seen Admins question the detail so whether they consider those rules valid, I have no idea, so I would discuss what you want, they do on the HA board.

I think the most important thing is to concentrate on your own needs in the presence of those two. They are not running the sessions, they are equals. Also, we do tend to do a lot of mind reading which is only heightened by themes of our anxiety we feel embarrassed about. They may just be the way they are and that they are not really thinking about you. Their reactions may tell you on that front. But the sessions are not there for them, they are there for you all as equals and it's what the coordinators feel about the content that matters.

Another member on here has been in hospital (quite a few have) and he had a big wobbly over one of his main symptoms not long ago. He has been much better for some time and is moving on with his life. Reducing his meds caused the symptoms and what did he start worrying about? Whether he would end up back in hospital. But he didn't. And that's someone who has been stable for sometime. Much of our anxiety is connected to memories of things, often symptoms, so these things are bound to happen until we have moved beyond them. So, with you feeling you are having a hard time right now, that's understandable and we have to remember that we are allowed to feel like that but what is important is where we are now.

Yes, the reaction is always worse than the thoughts. The thoughts pop in, they may bring some symptoms with them, but the hours of worrying and all the additional rising panic is out of the reaction. This is why reducing that is so important. Whilst I have a way to go with this on my GAD, I have done a lot of that with my OCD and it does work but it's not quick. These days my intrusives flash though. I find when I have my blips they are stronger but I can handle them because I've learned too. You will get there too, just keep working on things and it will come.

I know what you mean about urges. The way I have come to understand mine is that they feel more like they want to achieve something like something has said ' you MUST'. They feel stronger in that aspect than a thought does as that leads to triggering a compulsion whereas the urges just seem to feel closer to that compulsion. For instance, when I was really bad I had tics. I didn't know what they were back then. I would do doing my compulsions with street lights (reading the labels, re-reading, doing it in multiples, etc) and I started bobbing my head. It was as if I was trying to make the information somehow go into my head. It was a tic. These felt like urges to me. They felt stronger. I still have choice involved but they seem to feel like they are literally pushing or pulling me whereas the thoughts don't have that power. I don't know whether this makes any sense because it's hard to explain.

My GAD has literally rooted me to the spot and that feels similar, like two forces are pulling & pushing me.

I think some of this is the journey of recovery as you learn to differentiate. I did this with my intrusive and conscious thoughts. I learnt how to actually feel the difference between the two. Again, this is hard to explain but I felt my intrusives come deeper like from the back of my head but the conscious thoughts felt more towards the front and felt less powerful, more dismissible & shallow. This just sort of hit me one day and it stuck with me. I think this was partly due to being free of the constant non stop nature of it all and how Mindfulness was helping me. (I had several breakthrough moment with this and once had a shift too)

---------- Post added at 10:08 ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 ----------


My mind will highlight to me for example when I am in a room with my Mum the fact that there is a knife in the drawer, my mind will try to act out the thought & will show me certain images on a loop. I can visualise myself acting out it out and I feel I have to keep doing the repetition of going over & over testing myself to see if I get the right reaction/how much it distresses me, I even find myself questioning whether or not it distresses me.

Sometimes there are conflicting reactions to the thoughts playing out in my head, 'you need to do it' 'you have to do it' 'being institutionalised would be the best thing, it's where you belong after committing the act' 'Your whole life has been leading up to this' I see my fathers reaction, I see blood & I I think of all the people I have ever known discovering my crime & their perception changing of me.

I wanted to separate this so it stands out a bit more.

Playing out a scenario is normal, before my anxiety I used to do that with tasks. In my work I would run meetings, workshops, give presentations, etc so it was just a useful way. Isn't it just visualisation? Something they say we should do to help us improve our performance? I know athletes do it. So, really isn't this just anxiety using a process that exists quite innocently to help us?

So, we need to accept that it can be used as a channel by anxiety too and not be afraid of it happening. Anxiety just likes to take it to the usual unhealthy levels of replaying it over & over rather than reaching a point where you find what you need and hold onto it.

What I have found can help with this is writing things down and taking outside of the mind and onto something I can see. I feel I have more control over what I have in my hand than over my subconscious. I can choose to throw it away for a start or file it. It also has a proper structure so there is no going off at a tangent. They use Thought Records in CBT for this to tackle intrusive thoughts, it might help. I never bothered with it initially but later on when I tried it, I did feel some benefit for it as otherwise my mind would just go back to the start again.

Your mind (subconscious) is using existing processes, it doesn't understand that it is wrong, it's irrelevant as all it seems is a scenario to work through. So, it needs to enact violence = lets look for a weapon. It needs to ensure success = play out the scenario to determine what may go wrong so it can try to improve on it.

Testing yourself for a reaction you will know is a compulsion and you will also know how that only reinforces the validity of the cycle. Cutting down on this with the intention of extinction is important, and a step towards backing out that obsession issue that is the real root.

Testing yourself for the right reaction is just another part of it. You know it is wrong and because of this you need to ensure you react with shock. But what if you don't? Are you really becoming that person? Nope. You are not. In fact, as you start to recover your reaction is going to change and at some point these thoughts wont shock you anyway because you are learning they are nothing. This isn't a bad thing but until you come through that, you may assume it is.

I think we have to remember that this process isn't all A-B and even being tired can change your reaction. I've seen people start off with the fear reaction to then find they don't care anymore, which scares them. When you dig into it, you find they were actually very tired or feeling depressed. Well, when you feel like that it is hard to care if the world is still here tomorrow let alone caring about these thoughts.

Then we have the issue of "liking" the thoughts. I had this and it was early on too. I think I might have explained this earlier in the thread though. Tell me if not and I will talk about it. Ever heard of the term "backdoor spike"?

Anxiety is always learning, it creates those new core beliefs and then it starts learning to create "associated cores" too. It can get messy and garbled. The problem is we tend to read about OCD as very A-B affair. If you look at OCD UK's description of OCD types (it's not comprehensive, there are more they haven't added) you will see how everything is listed in sections. So, people think that's how OCD works. It's far from that. They combine with each other. Many of mine did. I bet you understand this but my point is that so too do our reactions, it's not always going to be the same reaction or the same thought. Things change, things develop, but some people then see this as a new issue when really it probably isn't, it could be a variation on a theme or something very subtle like perfectionism can be.

So, testing yourself can mean you come unstuck. I've seen guys on here test their POCD to ensure they are still disgusted in themselves to find they aren't. Then that tells them they are turning into a paedophile. Science argues they are not. This is why OCD & education need to go together so you can navigate through it. You may need support, I think that's a given, but it gets easier the more you come through the other side and those helpers are no longer needed.

Again, conflicting thoughts are going to happen as the brain wants to look at options, it wants to perform it's risk management processes, etc. Remember, in Mindfulness they talk about how the "autopilot" works and DOING & BEING modes. That's just classic DOING mode, as is the process of walking through the act.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Thank you so much again, Terry. I needed some time to process what you put there & there is some amazing points of wisdom.



I genuinely sense that I'm becoming more mentally unstable.
Even though I appear to be doing all the vital things to keep myself occupied & focused. Engaging in all the correct support groups meeting likeminded people etc I still somehow feel that it is not enough despite the many positives. It's fairly apparent that I am going through a severe rut & I quite honestly haven't felt this bad since September. I know the path to self healing isn't an easy one & you have to allow for the many ups & downs but I didn't envison so many ruts to occur however physically healthy I feel through the lifestyle changes I have made. It's becoming all too much to cope with again & I am struggling to see a way out despite making it this far.

For the first time I am not on any medicine. I am still going strong with not self-medicating so I understand that things are still relatively in their infancy & it will take some time for my brain to heal. It's been three weeks since I have had any diazepam & that is probably responsible for how I currently feel.

I did have a support worker last year that was part of a care plan that my psychiatrist put in place since being discharged as an outpatient. To be absolutely honest she and the team at that place have let me down, they are hugely disorganised and unreliable. The support worker had a tendency of arriving ridiculously late without so much as an explanation & towards the end before I raised my concerns to a duty manager she began being a no show which is in effect absolutely disgusting behaviour towards someone that feels so vulnerable. Subsequently my concerns & complaint had not been dealt with professionally & I have basically been shunned & told to contact a place in regards to after care. Upon looking into this organisation it's clear they can't offer me the necessary mental support & mainly specialise in aspects of independence I.e. Asisting people with finances, mobility etc.

So I got a phone call last week to inform me that my care plan had ended & that I have been discharged from their care. I knew it couldn't run on indefinitely but I felt it would be conducive for it to continue until my proper treatment started. I am certainly not asking for daily & weekly checks, just some additional support in between my psychiatrist appointments which are now every eight weeks which is a long time to someone who is struggling to get through the days.


My psychiatrist has been mindful of what's been going on and the only has a degree of power and control, unfortunately he can't dictate to others as to how they do their job, the system in general as you know is absolutely appalling & the whole state of the mental health system is a national disgrace.

I know realistically that I am better off without them as they have never given me the proper consistent care & support that I've needed from day one. I think it felt like a bit of a safety net knowing it is linked to him, the staff have weekly meetings with him, so there was a level of communication. I also struggle to adjust to change.
Altogether the work that I've done, with all the various groups & self help courses I have attended have come from my willingness to get better, using my initiative to go out there and see what's available with the limited access to resources that are available, very little information was provided to me as whom you would expect to be in the know of what you are eligible to access.


Thus with the exception of my psychiatrist/GP and as well as my parents support to a degree I honestly don't know what I would of done.

It's dreadful to know that there are many vulnerable souls out there without any support who struggle to speak/articulate themselves dealing with people who are not competent at their jobs, I can't obviously generalise & judge them as a whole because some genuinely want to make a difference but I have witnessed many so called professionals which aren't trained/reviewed correctly in their line of work.

As previously mentioned I am currently awaiting for some further CBT which should commence next month. I have also attempted to apply for further courses as well but have been informed that I cannot have access to more than one means of service, that is their policy which I understand if there are many people waiting etc.

Hopefully after my CBT sessions I can enroll in other projects/workshops till my main treatment of DCT starts in approximately October/November time.

So it is the now that I'm struggling to grapple with. For the first time I do feel rather unwell & feel tremendously overwhelmed by everything all at once.

With the intrusive thoughts & urges that you have so wonderfully addressed in your previous post. Your analysis is spot on & makes sense to me.

"I still have choice involved but they seem to feel like they are literally pushing or pulling me whereas the thoughts don't have that power. I don't know whether this makes any sense because it's hard to explain. "


I am now seeing an increased magnification of every aspect of irritation & anxiety which can be probably rationally defined as being caused by the condition being quite bad at the moment. With every irritation there's an intrusive ridiculous over sensitive reaction.

I struggle to neutralise any irrational thought however outlandish it seems. Paranoia is as well on the rise making me question people's motives & actions however innocent they appear to be.

It's a double edged sword right now as I feel buggered on medication & buggered without.

I was looking through my journal of previous CBT sessions & it confirmed what you said about writing things down, I have also overlooked this, so maybe now would be a good time to get creative with externalising my thought process.

Your feedback about my approach to that one particular group makes sense too. I believe it's important to have a chat with one of the facilitators when I get an opportune moment. I am also looking to get back into some reiki treatment as I feel I would greatly benefit from this.

[Goldenbuddha001]

I had a moment of crisis yesterday & I had to ring the access & crisis team at the hospital. They scheduled an appointment to see a mental health worker for tomorrow. Everything has built up like I explained in my previous message & I feel I have reached rock bottom. I hope they can offer some support whilst I am waiting for further CBT.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Golden,

Do you think that you are spiralling because of the blow of losing the limited support you were at least getting? Like you say, you struggle with change and this can feel like a big one. I remember going through some of this and at first it can feel a bit scary because you feel like it's all back on you but I found this subsided in some time and then I started making more progress as my Mindfulness practice really started paying off.

I've also seen this happen to others on here. Kimberley has a long running thread on the GAD board about anxiety & eating disorders. She was discharged from her CMHT after about 12 sessions of CBT that her GP had been fighting to get her. She was in a pretty bad way before all this in my opinion with her ED and OCD issues. She had got a lot better but then this phone call came and had a major wobble. However, we tried to point out all the improvements she had made, what she had achieved and how far she had come & changed. After a little while she got her head around this and realised that it was a bit of a shock and that it didn't wipe out all the progress she made.

So, it does happen to people on varying stages of their recovery. It's bound to hit someone harder at an earlier stage but try to look at what you have achieved and what you are doing. Try to look towards your plans rather than that empty hole where the support was. Like you say, they were pretty poor anyway and they were really just a friendly ear because they weren't pushing you along anyway.

If you look at Carolin's long running support thread on the depression board you will see she is having these same issues with her CMHT. She calls them in a desperate state and they don't call back, they don't turn up and leave her all weekend without support, they don't give reasons or even bother making a courtesy call, etc. The NHS seems to have so many issues in mental health care.

In these black holes people find themselves in, peer support helps to bridge the gap. So, perhaps use places like this to help talk things through if it helps you? It's a bit quiet on the OCD board, always has been since I joined, but there are plenty of lovely people on here and maybe joining some of these support threads could help you? They get daily posts from multiple people.

I know you feel on your own right now but your CBT isn't far off and having that face-to-face therapy might help with this too. Whilst they may not provide another course (courses like CBT need a coach for them to be successful based on evidence accepted by the NHS/NICE) but they are not the only ones out there. There are free supported CBT online courses if you need them. I know of some. You could perhaps give those a try? There is one on here (but it's chargeable now) but there is one with a support group attached somewhere else I know of that is free.

It's good that you are referring back to your therapy notes, this is the right time to be doing that rather than just suffering things. Having the courage to try is a step further forward than being frozen by fear which I bet you know from before. You are not in that position so you must have strength inside you to even be doing that and reaching out too. You are clearly intelligent and articulate and do not come across to me as so many can be seen when panicked. So, perhaps you need to empower yourself a bit more to pull through? Some people are motivated by having a plan and doing things and it's clear you are trying a lot of things that would scare others or they would resist.

I don't know if you have come across them but Thought Records are useful at challenging thoughts. Also, I found learning how to spot & work on my Cognitive Distortions was invaluable. I don't know if you have covered that, I never did in CBT and came across it later at a charity running CBT based work groups. They opened my eyes to more things than the therapy did! There are some good psychology resources out there too, I often post links to one that has some good tools and workbooks.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Terry, hope you're well. Thank you for your response once again.

I've needed a few days to have some time away to process things since my appointment at the hospital on Tuesday with the access & crisis team.
I saw a lovely mental health support worker, we sat down and produced a plan of action over the next week which basically consists of waiting to hear feedback/advice via my psychiatrist for a recommend drug, a referral to an additional support group & to continue attending the usual self help groups.

I am going to see her again next Wednesday. Which in a way I am dreading as for the first time in a long time my thoughts took on the theme of a stranger & latched onto her. I found myself having graphic intrusive thoughts & urges to lash out at her part way through the appointment which I have felt guilty & upset about ever since. Here is a woman who seemed genuinely concerned & supportive & there's me experiencing intrusive thoughts about her. Trying to tell myself that it's anxiety only provided a certain level of relief before I am back feeling consumed by it all again.

The thoughts are literally latching onto everything & anything at the moment & going to ten to the dozen every waking hour. Even when I am reading, online with social media, I see pictures & the thoughts are invading my mind continuously.


My concentration levels are just so poor at the moment & I feel like my head is about to explode. I feel so consumed & can't seem to get any solace from my thoughts. I have had terrible insomnia through the week also. I really don't know if I am going through some sort of rebound effect from not taking any diazepam. It's only been a few weeks since my last dose.


I attended one of my usual groups today after not attending them in the week.
I just I don't know if it's because of what I'm going through at the moment that's trying to deter me away from doing things, or if it is perhaps the groups that's contributing to how I am feeling as well. What I do know is that this current lapse started to build up just before Christmas and has got progressively worse since stopping the diazepam without a doubt. Initially with these support groups I felt a brief benefit factor from attending. It's over the past fortnight that I have felt unable to apply myself & feel bogged down with it all.

I don't know if that's because I am sick of reiterating the same things, hearing others experiences might be affecting me. It's difficult to ascertain as to what is contributing towards my current lapse.
I recognise how far I have come on this journey but I feel any minute that due to the magnitude of what I am experiencing that I am starting to lose it.

I am trying to hang onto to the fact as you know that my CBT will start very soon & trying to ride this out as much as I possibly can.

I am usually such an optimistic focused person but even trying to think positively is a struggle.
I feel I am going backwards again.

You mentioned accessing some online CBT courses, which would you recommend?

Best wishes,

Golden.

[Goldenbuddha001]

*Update*

I was admitted this evening by my psychiatrist & am now under a crisis watch/stay for a few days with the objective of getting my anxiety down. I see my psychiatrist on Friday to discuss a plan of action upon discharge & possible medication.

It feels completely surreal that I am in this position again. It all got too much. I was also told that the CBT I was meant to be starting this month is not going ahead till God knows when which is unfair as I was on the top of that waiting list. I was given false hope.

---------- Post added at 23:14 ---------- Previous post was at 23:06 ----------

I am struggling to see a way forward in all honesty. I have tried most meds. I am considering giving St John's Wort a go but need the advice of my psychiatrist first. Any feedback would be appreciated.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Golden,

I'm really sorry to hear you have felt the need to be admitted. I know you were very worried about this and what it represented but it could also allow you some additional support at this extremely difficult time so try not to see it as a failure. I bet you will, it's normal to feel that way about anything we feel is a lapse or not even a progression but try not to kick yourself too much.

They have let you down again with the CBT. Was that the catalyst to the admission or did it come on top of it? I don't think this is good enough either way and if you are able to use that proactive strength that you have demonstrated throughout your thread, can you push them over it? I got hit with that problem myself and I pursued my GP on it, stated I would go private, he referred me into the service above (it was only the IAPT provider I was having a problem with) and the nurse that called me must have given them a bit of a kick because the 3 month wait turned into a 7 day wait. She was told by the service manager that there was no chance but she went away and this was magicked up out of nowhere so she must have pressed my case with someone. Basically I was pushed into Level 2, had that for a couple of months and the told to wait 3 months for Level 3 - but I was told all the time only Level 3 would help me. I argued that the only reason I couldn't access what I needed, and the only thing they said I needed, was because they were forcing bureaucracy onto me and the failing in the management of their service were not my problem. I was prepared to fill the gap in with private work if needed as I didn't want to take somebody else's place by complaining and I made that very clear to them, yet they still plucked out a free therapist for 12 weeks for me. I wonder whether you can get them to pull their finger out? Can you complain the delays will only make you feel worse?

What you mentioned about your intrusive thoughts about the nurse helping you are something I can relate to. I think when you have intrusive thoughts about the people you love more than anything, they can easily settle on someone not on that level of importance in your life. I think the reason they do it is the same - choosing someone that you have a positive connection to in order to create the greatest level of response. Normally this may not be enough for it with someone who helps you in a shop but in your situation you found someone who you really felt happy to be around because they were helping you at such a desperate time and BANG, your subconscious finds itself another person to use.

You are not alone in that, I had it. If you told that nurse about those thoughts, I bet you they would shrug it off like it was nothing. I've seen someone else on here actually mention it to be told it was nothing to the mental health professional who said they were used to it. That's the thing, to us it's the end of the world but to them it's just part of the job. You should see the posts on the HA board about people worrying over talking to their GP or about an embarrassing condition yet to a GP that's as much an event in their day as would be for someone to do some photocopying in the office. They obviously see that it is a major issue to the sufferer, so not the same as that photocopying, but in their mind that is probably all the attachment it gets from a fear perspective because they understand it's normal in these conditions. Do you see what I mean? So, you really mustn't worry about this and tell them if you feel you need to or if it will help you.

The thing is, these people work in place where they have to be able to work with patients with very challenging conditions. Someone on here had a relative who was sectioned due to psychosis and he worried what if he assaulted the doctor again and the doctor just shrugged it off and reassured the family they are used to it, it's part of the job. It's not like NHS doctors/nurses outside of these areas, it's an essential hazard of the job, just as it is to a police officer.

So, when you think about you, someone worried & anxious telling them your thoughts when compared to someone in psychosis doing a lot more than just telling them and in a dangerous state of mind, how do you think she would respond to you? Would she think "this person sitting here thanking me has just said she had a thought to do X to me" and panic? Or would she see that you are not exhibiting any behaviour that is threatening, that you are positive towards her, and that you have just described an intrusive thought to her - and her training & experience tells her just how rare it is for someone with OCD to act those out.

Do you think you became dependent on the Diazepam? How long were you on it and how long did you use it? How did you taper off? Doctor's can be a bit poor with taper plans sometimes and perhaps this could be relevant to the fact you feel worse than you could do? There are people on here that have been dependent on various Benzo's and they are a great source of information on tapers and how you will feel through them. I can tell you how to get their attention on here by where you post and give you some names of helpful members if so.

There are various CBT packages out there. The NHS offer a couple such as FearFighter, Beating The Blues, etc. Be careful with these as they can be chargeable without NHS approval for the cost first. These may have been the ones they said you couldn't access right now as they need to have a support worker in place although I'm not sure about that. Otherwise there is one on here called CBT4PANIC but it is chargeable now, although it doesn't cost much. There is a free one called Panic Center too run by a Canadian company. Panic Center also have a support forum for those using it and there seem to be dome good people on there, one especially I can vouch for.

I don't know about St. John's Wort other than when you can't use it with various meds. There are people on here who know a bit more and some threads on the Natural Remedies board though. It would be worth a look or a thread. There may be other natural remedies you can also try which help some people but it does mean trying various things until you find if something works. There are certainly some interesting ones with studies though. I know a good supplements website that is a bit like a Wiki and lists all the studies and how relevant they are to what they were trying to treat with the substance.

I really hope you can get some help in the next few days and feel a bit more settled. I think they need to look at your care plan again and try to tide you over until your CBT can commence, whether that is now or later with longer support in between.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Terry,
Much appreciated for your thorough response at this critical moment in time.

My anxiety has become so extreme (which has just been confirmed by the Nurse here that it's likely to be rebound anxiety from stopping the Diazepam which is what I suspected) So in my scheduled follow up appointment with the crisis team on Wednesday I requested to be voluntarily admitted. I felt I could no longer cope & felt too consumed by self harm/pure O complusions & being messed about with the CBT was most likely the final straw after literally feeling like I was hanging on by a thread!

I have been so proactive but the nature of the problem dictates & shouldn't fall upon myself to do everything like I have been.
The mental health worker consulted with my psychiatrist being deeply concerned he reluctantly admitted me for a crisis stay with the intention of it being only for a few days.

In regards to Diazepam I was on it on & off through the course of last year in between trying different medications. I did have a couple of months break around Oct-Nov & started taking them again in December especially over the Christmas period.
In all honesty I didn't ever take valium for more than three weeks, they say you can quickly build up a dependency around the 3-4 week mark. I do believe I should of perhaps tapered off it more sensibly this time round. After a week of taking it whilst I was away I basically just stopped it when I came back thinking it was only a relatively short time. It was pretty much my fault even though the doctors should have been monitoring the situation. Like you say they don't appear to be very clued up on withdrawal & the after affects of taking benzodiazepines. They seem to be under the impression that with taking it in low doses that I won't really experience withdrawal symptoms. In the end I felt it was no longer benefiting me from taking it anyway.

I see my psychiatrist tomorrow morning when he conducts his ward round. I have just been making some notes expressing points & concerns to put to him so I don't forget whilst I am in the appointment.

I feel I should wait to consult with him in regards to CBT rather than ringing them again. He may himself be able to put a bit of pressure on the psychology department & like you say hurry them along.
I was told by two separate entities that the CBT would commence this month but was palmed off with the excuse that there is a new therapist starting & that there has been numerous referrals Christmas/start of new year which has no relevance to my situation not my concern considering I should be top of that list. I appreciate that there are others in desperate need of help. She couldn't tell me as to when I will be seen but to ring at the end of the month. If my psychiatrist can't hurry them along then I certainly will outline the situation.

I am torn as far as my medication is concerned. My psychiatrist maintains there are still some left to try but having tried so many I am left wondering will I ever find something suitable to balance my anxiety levels herbal or pharmaceutic. I have tried 9-10 different medications excluding the valium. I will take up your suggestion of enquiring further on this forum with herbal alternatives because it's like a minefield & I don't know where to begin as most take some time to take effect. I feel in the present moment I need some instant relief & also help with sleeping but worried about being dependant on an anti anxiety med. It's a double edged sword.

My Mum had a pretty bad fall this morning which shook her up. Luckily nothing is broken but she hurt her knees. Right away from being informed my mind was producing awful thoughts & I could hear laughter in my mind which I feel guilty over. I also felt disingenuous with my texts of concern.
I think what I find most difficult is the emphasis on my mother as previously mentioned. Even though the harm ocd has pretty much latched on to practically everyone the obession with my mother stands out most.
My mind pretty much goes into overdrive.
She along with my father visited me last night in the hospital & the moment I saw her I saw how emotionally concerned she was in her eyes & the thoughts materialised again leaving me feeling bad for the remainder of my time with them.
Her expressing emotion towards me conjures up an uneasy sense of self. Although it's touching to know she cares it is quickly replaced with my obsessing over those emotional displays & how I feel about them, then that harm ocd comes into play. The magnitude of these feelings leads me to obsess over the future. I keep questioning whether I am feeling genuine guilt or not.
I keep getting the images & thoughts of me slashing her throat & hear myself apologising whilst performing the act, & also explaining to my Dad that I am sorry but I have to kill your wife. Even writing this makes me feel ill at ease.

My psychiatrist diagnosed me as having BPD with obsessive traits which as ridiculous as it may sound makes me sometimes question whether I actually have the full disorder of OCD even though it has been confirmed by two psychotherapists. Maybe he didn't want to overwhelm me by attaching another label. It seems common for BPD & OCD to be running along side each other. It does worry me because there is another condition running in the background that it would be the catalyst for me ever acting out the urges & complusions.
Jeffrey Dahmer was an individual who was diagnosed as having BPD & struggled to contain his urges. I fear this could be me.
The uncertainty is still something I struggle to live with. I am still trying to accept the bpd diagnosis, I feel there is some hurt & a bit of anger which is exacerbated by the ocd towards my parents for my diagnosis. I had a bit of a turbulent time with them growing up to early adulthood. Even though our relationship has vastly improved over the past few years in my late twenties particularly I can't help but feel a bit of anger that I have this illness. I am not sorely holding them responsible but they undoubtedly play a part in my emotional instability as I didn't have the necessary consistent emptional support at privitol moments but yet they are here now which I know is important even if they don't fully understand.

I am trying to focus on being here & using the time constructively by keeping busy & trying to get as much rest as possible.


It feels surreal being here & I can't help but wonder if I'm going to be in & out these places for years to come as part of the recovery process.

Golden.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Golden,

Rebound is tough. However, perhaps having a cause means you have something more to work on? You know what is driving the current escalation and rebound can be beaten and you can be more yourself and able to push forward again? Perhaps it just alters the short term goals?

It's funny you should say about them not thinking withdrawal wold be felt on low doses because I've seen several of the members on here say they found it much easier coming down in large chunks from the high doses but those last low doses were the hardest for them. I've only used Diazepam a little when starting meds so it's never been an issue for me but after a week on them once I stopped feeling the benefit so didn't bother with them and initially this is where I moved onto my first SSRI. When I eventually came off that SSRI, because I was doing well, I found the hardest part of the withdrawal was dropping from 50-0% and the previous step was easier. Both weren't too bad anyway but I was in a good place at that point.

Those excuses are just garbage to me. They new a new therapist was starting before and I don't see why a new therapist, on top of the one you were booked to start with, has any bearing on the service levels expected of them. That therapist will have been trained & had to qualify through hours of supervision. At this point it will be up to a supervisor to get her settled. Why should the patients suffer? These therapists have to experience therapy over so many hours to qualify and that should allow them to just start when they walk through the door. They have their supervisors there anyway and if they need induction, they can sit in on other therapists sessions, they don't need babysitting as they have already done it to qualify.

I think sometimes the NHS give out excuses to just smooth things over and hope the patient doesn't ask questions as we are supposed to "trust our doctors" but that's an old attitude and things are changing so that we question what are essential services we have paid for in some way. I think you are doing the right thing anyway by using other people to achieve this, you have enough to deal with right now and don't need more pressure. Make them work for their money. It will come better from them since they can't use the excuses they can with the public.

Something that you need to consider is all the proactive work you have been doing. Many people in positions like yours don't do all that, they are too stuck, too obsessed with the thoughts. That shows you have a lot of strength and are very determined to beat this. This forum, and many others, have plenty of people who are going around in circles without making steps forward and they end up spiralling. Whilst you have this current painful setback, you still have that drive & determination and this is extremely important in recovery.

I understand your worries about whether there is something else in play. I think I must hear this one on every OCD thread about Pure O whether it's POCD, harm based, schizophrenia based, etc. And these are all people who only have OCD, not the additional challenges you have with BPD. I think you need to take some comfort from that, that others say exactly what you do and that those of us on here who have been through it & understand it, tell them we have been there too and come out the other side. We all thought there was a new personality coming out, the person we feared, but we have come through the other side and look back to see that it was just how our anxious minds work. We were more worried about the people around us and what it would do to them than we often were about the consequences for us, although some have that feature in their thoughts too yet I think the main issue is always the fear of the harm itself.

You have 2 medical professionals saying OCD and one sitting a bit on the fence and "hinting" at OCD traits. Anyone can have OCD traits. They don't diagnose OCD unless it is affecting your life. There many people on here who don't have OCD who have intrusive thoughts, but then all human's have intrusive thoughts. Intrusive thoughts are OCD spectrum but many of those people don't have it to the degree that a diagnosis is required. But even having an element, a trait, can mean it escalates under stress and feels more intense.

You could put it to him again and ask if this is only a trait or enough to be diagnosed. He probably just sees it as secondary to the BPD as opposed to needing a comorbid diagnosis. To him, that might mean it is every bit as strong as it is to the OCD diagnosed sufferer but perhaps he seems the BPD as being a primary and more important diagnosis? I don't know how they work. If they were both anxiety disorders they might just make a comorbid diagnosis, and the same with depression (if it presents at the same strength of the depression) but with a PD, I'm less sure as they are usually seen as more complex disorders needing more treatment to recover from from what I've read in the past.

I really really don't think you should be comparing your worries to people like Dahmer. How many people are there in world with a PD and how many of them are like Dahmer? This could just be you looking towards the worst, those Cognitive Distortions skewing your thinking.

Think of it this way, how many times have you seen someone with schizophrenia on TV? How many of those people have been violent and psychotic? How many were pretty normal and just struggling asking for help with their condition? I bet you the latter are a rarity. Why? Because the media needs the extremes to sell papers, to up the ratings on their channels, etc. Yet if you actually read about schizophrenia the medical professionals state violence is rare, even in the paranoid category where it most likely to occur, and the types of violent events we read or hear about are due to the complications of drugs. I remember reading that but ever time I see this condition on TV they are multiple murderers or sociopaths of some variety and only one occasion have I seen an actual medical documentary where I saw a poor guy struggling with it who just wanted help and was terrified of passing it on to his daughter. Since then again all I have seen are murderers, yet all science behind this says they are rare. If you think about it, of course they are rare because we always hear about them in the media and it's not very often. This is confirmation of how rare they are on top of what the professionals say.

So, apply that to the Dahmer argument. I've used that one with people on here with Pure O centred around Schizophrenia. Apply the acceptance you have been learning. Accept that these thoughts are natural concerns but they are to be let go.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother's fall but glad she is ok.

With this form of OCD an event like your mother's fall is bound to be latched onto. I'm not surprised you mentioned that internal laughing, I've had that too. Amusement at a loved ones misfortune. Then you focus on why you felt that and off it starts again. This is where learning not to feed it will help you free yourself from it. By observing the thought and just letting it go as nothing doesn't mean you don't care about your mum and it doesn't mean you don't think the thoughts were wrong, it's just a strategy to bring them back inline by starving them of the negative reaction they want to reinforce themselves. I know it's all confusing.

What you mentioned about whether you were feeling guilt is something I've come across before, in myself and with others on here. What I believe is that you cannot truly feel guilt for what you haven't done, you can only feel guilt about the thought. So, trying understand whether the guilt you are feeling is enough for that act you have committed is just not going to work because it can't. I think this is where you have to remember how thinking about doing something is very different to looking back after crossing a line and feeling guilt over an action.

For instance, thinking about having sex with another man than your BF isn't cheating. Some people think it is and kick themselves over it, and obviously ROCD sufferers do as it's part of their obsession. But if you actually do it, isn't that a totally different thing? Wouldn't the level of guilt you feel be far stronger? Wouldn't the intensity and varying emotions differ substantially to the mere thought of doing it?

That's how I see Pure O when it comes to an emotion that is meant to be based on something that has occurred. You can't truly feel it until you are there.

I worry about my parents as they are mid seventies. I worry about the grief I would feel and what that could do to my anxiety issues. BUT how on earth can I experience that grief until I actually go through it?

How about another example? We are always saying how you can't truly know how bad anxiety & depression (and your BPD) feel until you go through them. So, how can we expect to look forward on an event and expect to truly know how we should feel then? We haven't been through it. I can easily say that I can't truly feel how bad I felt when I was really bad with my anxiety. I just can't imagine it anymore but that's really how it should be or else I could easily be tipped back into it. I remember how I was but I can only feel so far, I can't reach how that feeling felt from that suffering anymore.

This is why it's important to rationalise. Does that make sense?

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Terry,

I am going to be discharged from my ward on Thursday. If I hadn't of felt so desperate I wouldn't of come in to hospital. The lack of care especially one-one & curt attitudes have been appalling. Pretty eye opening stuff. I thought my last hospital stay was bad in parts but this was shocking. The only saving grace I guess is seeing my psychiatrist well before the next outpatient appointment which is on the 19th & being monitored whilst starting new drugs. I am glad of that in case there may be an adverse reaction despite it being low doses.


I was placed on Abilify 5mg & promethazine 2mg (to help with sleep) last week.

The Abilify in the first few days seemed to provide some initial relief, my anxiety has returned but isn't as prominent. I am hoping as time passes that it provides further benefit. I was slightly reluctant at first given the fact that it is an antipsychotic & most haven't agreed with me. I haven't had any negative side effects so far other than a bit of nausea which I am sure will pass once my body has adapted to the change. An increase could happen at some stage, all depends on how I cope on the outside.
My psychiatrist is going to try & hurry things along with the CBT. I will have my last ward round on Thursday & will be discharged. I am a little nervous about going it will be the first time I will be alone with my mum & given how I have been feeling some anxiety is still present but this isn't the right place for me, that much is apparent. I fortunately have been able to get some rest in my room & catch up on some much needed sleep. That has been extremely frustrating. I was reaching the exhausted stage. Also, the home care treatment team will be in touch within seven days to monitor how I am, so that is also good. So overall the stay hasn't been completely unproductive.

I just hope that I will manage to get back into a routine again once I am home & be able to cope ok.

Golden,

[Goldenbuddha001]

*Update*

I am home now. Was discharged on Thursday. My anxiety is high given that I am out, some of it is to be expected. The obsession around my Mum in particular is insufferable. My psychiatrist is going to do his utmost to find out when my CBT starts next week before my appointment with him a week today. Fortunately I had a full nights sleep last night.

I was tempted to compile a complaint in regards to my time in there but I know how they can work, they have the power to make things very difficult for you if you find yourself in a position in the future requiring further treatment. It's a shambles.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Golden,

It seems like luck of the draw with these services. Some people on here have said they have been excellent and others have given the more old fashioned impression of them being far from peaceful places.

I'm glad you managed to get some sleep. It surprising how much lack of sleep can affect us. For many of us it seems to strip our defences and the anxiety runs rampant. Lack of sleep was what pushed me over the edge in my relapse.

It's going to be a worrying time like you say, any adjustment can be. It's the change and uncertainty again but getting back into your routine should help with this.

I think your mum will need to be mindful of the impact her presence has until you can move forward a bit with the CBT. You've got your dad too and the impact of his presence was less so perhaps there is some room to manoeuvre there until you can feel more comfortable around her? I'm sure they will be very worried but if you need your space, they need to listen to that.

I think you are right about the ward, they are not the right place for a lot of people, it's really just a matter of some security at the worst time when you are unsure of how you can cope on your own. At the time you felt you needed that and now you have pushed past it and want to do things your own way again.

I would have thought if anything that this would only add to the case for the CBT. So, hopefully that gets sorted soon.

If the med helps, that's all that matters right now. You can deal with reducing it to a maintenance level of cut it out completely later when you are more settled. Perhaps having that to hold you from dipping too far is worth it right now until you get some support and move forwards to a point when it becomes less important to you.

Take care. I hope you continue to have some good quality sleep and settle back into your home quickly.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Terry,

I just had my appointment with the CMHT it went ok but felt I was holding back. When I have seen them before they don't usually know much about OCD.

I am also scared of revealing to my Mum that she is the main theme of my thoughts, urges, etc. I am scared of judgement, don't want to upset her (them) , I feel ashamed etc.

When I have revealed to my Dad about it previously he was hesitant even though that's probably a normal involuntary human reaction I can't help but think that maybe he may be worried or there's a possibility he may be worried in the future.

I am also worried that because of the thoughts & urges that I won't be able to resist acting them out, my mind tells me my future looks bleak. Even though I test myself be acting out the scene in my mind I find myself shouting out loud 'NO!"

Thank you for your kind words, I do hope I manage to settle a bit since returning.
Golden,

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Golden,

That's a bit worrying that they don't know about OCD, it's so common these days. I get how the Pure O side is more unknown but some of the OCD subtypes are so common and are stereotypes so they should at least understand the cycles.

I can understand that about your mum. I never told mine, or anyone, I managed to find my way out of them but my other forms were far more intense so were the harder ones to crack. I get the shame element, OCD makes you feel like you are not in control of your own mind and body, how can people understand that?

I think it's likely anyone being told about the Pure O ones is going to be very much in the dark. They may think about more serious mental health issues because they are the ones they here about e.g. POCD. How on earth would anyone know about POCD, but they know about paedophiles...so it's an obvious thing to think of when someone describes their POCD. Harm based is the same, isn't it? They may think about violent people because that's all we hear about through the media or in fiction.

I think the way forward with that is to give them information. Let them see that it's real. Show them the charity websites explaining it, let them talk to your medical professionals who will reassure them it's only OCD and not something more sinister. If they can see a great big wall of information showing them it's possible, and you have the backing of those professionals, then they can't deny it exists and will have to spend some time processing it all to learn to accept it.

Unless your dad knows about these forms of OCD, his natural reaction is bound to be worry - for you both. Look what we are shown on TV. Every time there is a storyline in a programme about mental health and violent thoughts, it's someone who ends up doing them or various horrible acts to people. Once you learn the truth, you can change your thinking, just as we did.

Look at schizophrenia, which I've probably mentioned in here already. Whenever we see it, it's violence and usually disturbing crimes. Go on to medical/charity websites and they say it's rare and the result of drug misuse. If I was diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia, what would my parents think? They would know about all the things they have seen on TV and it would worry them. Then they sit in front a doctor who tells them that's all media sensationalism and gives them the real facts and the they are reassured because they have been given official medical guidance that they can trust. They may still have their worries here & there, it's natural, but they won't be thinking back to the sensationalism.

You won't act on them, they affect you this badly and that's the sign they are the opposite of your character. It's rare for someone with OCD to act on their compulsions in this manner. Otherwise wouldn't the prisons & hospitals be full of us?

It is true that your reaction will change as you go through recovery. Your "No" may become a silent "whatever", "who cares", and some people then worry this is a sign of changing but it's not, it's a sign of desensitising to the fear element and this starves the subconscious of that tick in the box to keep the process valid. This is just part of the way out.

All the best.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Terry,
It's been exceedingly difficult since coming out of hospital. I have had a few moments of crisis particularly last night. I found myself in A&E after a lapse in self harm again.

After attempting to point out to the crisis team several times within 24 hours that I felt suicidal & desperate I was told "We're fully booked up, no one can see you" "Wait till tomorrow" I was also told I was no longer eligible to access the crisis service as I am under secondary care & they're primary care.
My psychiatrist was on duty last night & made it clear that he didn't want me to be admitted again feeling it would have a detrimental affect on me with anxiety/depression levels. He also said for me to contact the local organisation that could help me with aftercare, transpires that they can't as I am acutely ill & state I should still be under the CMHT after being discharged from them just over a month ago & to be fast tracked onto their services again. My recovery has evidently been affected by all of this.

The new medication is making me feel very poorly too so this is another thing to emphasise to my psychiatrist tomorrow that these antipsychotics are definitely not for me. I feel manic & very unstable despite it being low in dose, I felt bad prior to bring admitted but this is too much.

I just feel abandoned at the moment & hanging on by a thread. The impulses are extremely strong. I am sat here really feeling the struggle of being alone with my Mum.
I just hope my appointment goes ok tomorrow & something is put in place.

Golden,

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Golden,

I'm really sorry to hear this. :hugs: How are you feeling now?

It really does annoy me how these professionals can't see that their behaviour adds to the pressure on people. When you are like this, you don't need bureaucratic red tape, you just need someone to take over and get things moving. I can't see why one service can't call another and take the pressure off. We used to do this all the time in my trade in the private sector and that was just utilities. We didn't just say "sorry madam, that's another team so ring this number...(well the crap employee jobsworths would)...we called them up and arranged a callback fairly quickly. I dislike this passing people from list to another and sitting them at the back of the queue just because red tape means they were in the wrong one. In a mental health crisis service and a 2nd line people dealing with more serious concerns this is simple disgraceful.

I just don't understand why they can't see the impact of their behaviour on people? Who is holding them to account? I've seen plenty of cases where people have harmed themselves or gone missing just because of things like this and nothing ever seems to change.

I'm not surprised you feel abandoned, who wouldn't. They are bouncing you between services.

Have you seen Carolin's thread on the depression board? When she started having issues with her CPN (and service) I mentioned your thread because you had explained about their woeful attention to your previous complaint. She has similar issues with no one phoning back from crisis teams, turning up to an appointment to find her CPN is off sick and she hasn't been notified. Basic stuff.

Perhaps your psychiatrist may have a better option with a different antipsychotic? You know what it's like with meds, it's so often experimental. Perhaps there is still a chance he may find you a good fit? If you are ending up in A&E after self harm episodes, it's clear this med isn't doing enough and they need to have a plan on what comes next. I hope they have something that can help you.

I can imagine with all this the intrusive thoughts are worse. They always get worse with increased anxiety levels. I don't think there is much that can be done naturally with that right now if the med is causing a spike so hopefully removing the med or switching will decrease this so you can get back to where the thoughts were before. With meds spiking anxiety you know it's a matter of toughing it out until you come through the other side.

Hang in there.

[Goldenbuddha001]

:hugs: Thank you Terry much love & best wishes to you.

I am feeling pretty scrambled to be honest but relieved to have seen my psychiatrist today & to be off those meds! Phew!
He asked me if I was angry at him for not admitting me to which I responded with no just that I am worried that I am not getting the necessary care & proceeded to tell him what I had been told in regards to accessing that service.

He thinks it's utterly ridiculous but is going to do his utmost now to get something in place via the CMHT. He has to if he wants to keep me out of hospital!

I gave him a few drugs suggestions to try. He is always receptive to me doing my own research & running things by him. Which I suppose is rare. We settled on Trazodone 50mg.


So I have as of today stopped the aripiprozole & I told him I would now definitely like to rule antipsychotics as they really do not agree with me.
He has also corresponded with psychology. I have to ring them at the start/second week of March in regards to CBT, so not too long to wait now. Just hope this new med helps slightly. Apparently takes 3 weeks to reach full therapeutic affect.

Have struggled today with the obsessional thinking. Always worse when I am alone at home but trying hard to distract myself. Just constantly feel bad & guilty. I struggle to enjoy even music which I love. It takes my enjoyment away from things, like I feel I don't deserve to enjoy anything.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yeah, some people on here have said how psychiatrists can be uninterested, even ignore you or just be unwilling to bend. He seems like a more open-minded guy. That's good, we're patients not "cases". It's the same with many medical professionals, I guess. I'm glad he also doesn't clam up like so many of them do to protect the woeful NHS, they should be more open & honest about it all.

There are a few people on here on Traz. Hopefully it will help you but at the least I hope the start up isn't a problem.

I know exactly what you mean about not being able to engage with anything let alone enjoy it. I think this takes times to regain. Things either make you anxious or they make you feel nothing and motivation is non existent. For the latter, routine will probably be needed to get you to just do it for a time until the emotions come back.

All the best.

[Goldenbuddha001]

I have had two doses of Trazodone 50mg since Friday which in the grand scheme is nothing.
The first dose I felt made me uncomfortable. It's really difficult to say whether two doses can magnify things but one things for certain my impulses are getting more and more ridiculously strong. The racing thoughts have got so unbearable that whatever I apply my mind to whether it be television or reading my mind will latch onto anyone or anything including the company of others. Prior to taking the Trazodone my anxiety as you know has been at its peak, coming off the Abilify might play a part in this. It's really difficult to ascertain what's causing what as I have been on & off two meds now since the start of year one being mainly Valium.

I feel pressure in my head.
Last night feeling desperate I reluctantly took a tablet (being my second dose) it helped calm things down slightly & I could get off to sleep even though I woke two or three times in the night with anxiety.
They say it can take 2/3 weeks for it to start feeling the full affects with anxiety but I just don't know really what to do. I think there is an element of fear as to what to take next given how I am feeling, could it make things worse, given the fact that there is an impulse control problem listed as a side effect.

I feel like I need to be back in hospital. My psychiatrist is off this week so that could make things potentially difficult.

The impulses/visions/images are becoming more increasingly alarming. Is this a deep state of anxiety as my mind keeps trying to tell me there's possible danger here even though I have never acted & intentionally hurt anyone I feel it's developing into something serious such as a psychotic breakdown & outside intervention is needed. I recognise I am in a bad way.
The impulses are harder for some reason to rationalise given the strength & intensity of them.

I am in turmoil really Terry & can only apologise for reiterating certain things on this thread, you have provided some invaluable therapeutic advice that has been given much contemplation, but at the same time I feel I am lost & caught in the grips of an illness that is becoming increasingly hard to manage.

:weep:

[Goldenbuddha001]

After much deliberation I decided to stop taking the Trazodone until my doctor returns.
Today has been the absolute worst I have ever felt. I travelled to hospital to be dismissed & told you are in control of your actions & to basically deal with it. As insensitive as this was it has made me worry even further. I am literally at breaking point & my mind is like a prison. It is convinced there is danger ahead.
It is literally unbearable to be around anyone. Tonight whilst walking when though I didn't act, it took every fibre of my being to not act upon the urge of hitting my father.
I keep trying to tell myself I don't wish to harm, the anxiety is high, it's the condition etc but the urges are powerful & remain significantly strong in torturing me.
Losing control is something I fear. Even though there is no physical history of violence.

I am frightened just to have a friend who I don't see that frequently visit.
Ocd is pure hell & I empasise with anyone going through similar things right now. What do you honestly do when you feel you've become too saturated by it all? How do you keep calm & composed when you can't concentrate.

I acknowledge how far I have come but at the same time I see how ill I currently am.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I'm sorry to hear you are still struggling so much, it's hard for any of us on here to see someone in such pain because we remember how we felt. Well, I think we remember it in relation to what we are able to, we can't truly feel how bad it was and to be honest, would we? We would worry about it coming back. But you know fellow sufferers do understand the frustration, the fear, the paranoia, the despair and feelings of hopelessness. We want to be helped NOW but the reality is it takes time and that is very demoralising. It's easy for anyone else to say it, but try living it 24/7. You just want it to end.

At my worst stages I was living an endless day of obsessions & compulsions. I felt I had little control of them, that I really needed to do them. I did find there were times where the pressure of someone watching or behind me would make something in my mind take over and walk past a place I would normally be conducting longer compulsions or I would do shorter less visible ones. It was like something inside me saw the embarrassment as truly worse than the fear. But next time, it would just start up again with nobody there to force the embarrassment to take over.

I think in some ways it was just a matter of keeping going. I was like that for some time. Nothing was helping me, even the same daily routines were saving me but trapping me at the same time. I had to start breaking those routines later once the compulsions were greatly reducing and it was very hard.

For me, those days were a living hell. I wanted to die on many of those days. I was only existing and for what? Another day the same hating it all. It took some time to work out of that and getting my overall anxiety levels down was part of it because the OCD was too strong to address earlier on.

And what caused my OCD? A med. Before that I had some obsessions developing but not anywhere near this strength and where did all the hundreds of daily compulsions come from? Well, they all came not long after this med. I trusted my GP saying it was my anxiety (how naïve I was back then!) and fought my way through it costing me years. I might not have had to waste those years if I knew then what I knew now and I put that one firmly on my GP.

It's horrible to hear people being turned away when they feel so desperate. It's a sad thing but it seems pretty common that unless you are a harm risk or unable to look after yourself, they don't want to know. Many people have accepted this I think. I've seen others even say they have accepted this because it would upset them more to feel let down. I'm not sure what the answer is there but I can see the merits of that mind set. I have a similar approach to meds.

Where did you see about the impulse control side effect? I can't see it on Drugs.com.

I know how strong the urges feel from my own experience. Mine was different to yours, my intrusive thoughts were secondary to my obsessions that resulted in physical compulsions. I have to explain that as you fear you could act them out because I did act mine out but you need to understand that my compulsion was a mitigating, checking, cancelling, type action - it wasn't living out what was in my head in those intrusive thoughts like your worry. I would be touching, checking, re-reading, re-voicing, I had tics, etc. There were so many. These are not like your urges, something unknown or something aimed towards myself was often the reason. I did have intrusive thoughts about my parents being harmed and conducted compulsions but they were to prevent or cancel out, etc. There was load of Magical Thinking in there too.

[pulisa]

I just wanted to say that I've been reading through your thread and can very well identify with your unbearable agitation. I know how overwhelming and terribly distressing it can be when it is on a 24/7 basis and when you can't even concentrate to do the simplest thing that anyone would take for granted.

I don't have Terry's extensive knowledge but I would just like to say that I do so hope that the agitation is less severe today and that you can get a degree of alleviation of your symptoms. Knowing your psych is away can't be helping.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hello Pulisa,

Many thanks for your comment & supportive words.

Unfortunately I had an off the scale panic attack in the early hours of last night. I hadn't taken a med like I said wasn't going to do, I could not get my heart rate down & get some rest. My chest was thumping frantically. It was a pretty frightening experience which I haven't felt for some time. I felt I had no choice but to take a Trazodone just to calm me down a bit which after an hour or so thankfully worked. I had a bit of rest but things were playing out in the dream state so unfortunately I couldn't manage to really relax.

I have been feeling suicidal which I don't know if that's due to the harm obsessions that have been playing out or genuine ideation. I keep visualising how I would do it & leaving a note which causes such upset, I just want to be free from all of this mental anguish.


I haven't even left the house yet today things feel that bad. When I consider venturing out my mind keeps urging me to buy knives which creates more anxiety, I feel unable to be around anyone. I feel truly isolated which is probably making things worse!!
Even doing the smallest of tasks triggers of an overwhelming sense of fear.

My head says there's no point as I am a threat & it's only a matter of time.


Despite what I have been going through as you know, (Many thanks for reading my thread btw) at least I managed to get out to a degree, now I feel I am trapped things have escalated so quickly! I have just managed to come on my period after being two weeks late which will have not helped as far as my hormones are concerned, (hate to be personal)

:weep:

[pulisa]

I very much identify with your thoughts which can be totally relentless no matter how you try to distract yourself. I would have thought that all the modification to your meds plus hormone stuff must be playing havoc on your already tormented mind?

Your posts come across as totally lucid and you're not losing your mind. You're just in mental torment and you can't see a way out. Can you ring anyone on your team just to tell them how desperate you are feeling? I know your psych is away but every minute seems an age when you're like this and you need help to take the edge off this awful anguish. Is there anyone who could come out to you?

[Goldenbuddha001]

I keep being dismissed, I was dismissed yesterday & given a leaflet to attend a group which is no longer in exsistence, I know that because it was something I used to attend specifically for borderline personality sufferers.
They couldn't continue due to lack of government funding, there are quite a few things that have been pulled. I was assured by a lady from the crisis team that it was up & running again which gave me a moment of false hope yesterday, you would think they would check & vet things out properly before giving things out to vulnerable people!!! Shocking.

I was basically palmed off with wait until your psychiatrist returns & to wait to be referred to this group which she also assured me she would contact me last night to confirm referral (she had no intention of doing this because she knew perfectly well that it is no longer running)

I took the initiative in making some equiries when I returned home. I asked the centre where they hold the group if it was up & running, both the admin worker & duty manager confirmed it was no longer running confirming what I already thought. They gave me a contact number if the crisis team wanted clarification. I pointed out that even though they didn't personally facilitate the group that these flyers are still in circulation which could lead to some upset vulnerable people putting concerns their way, people travelling a distance in hope that there is a group such as that when there is practically nothing on that theme in the area or surrounding areas can lead to all sorts of mix ups & problems, they were inclined to agree.


I left another message for the crisis team support worker with this information & haven't heard anything since!
So basically have nothing which is a complete shambles.
The care plan that was poorly written lies & states a keeping safe booklet was issued to myself. Unbelievable. Subsequent of this (God knows how I have had the brain power!) I have left a message with a manageress of a patient liaison service to discuss this. I think I am well within my rights to do so, just hope it doesn't backfire! Still all of this doesn't help me in the 'now'

Thankfully I had a long call with a friend yesterday that helped slightly!

Golden,

[pulisa]

I've been out of the "system" for years because I knew how cr*p it all was and how badly you can be let down when you're at your most vulnerable. You're sensibly proactive in your care which will work against you as you have all your faculties and are prepared to put up a fight for decent and appropriate care.

Quite how they can tell a highly agitated person to "wait until your psychiatrist gets back" is beyond me when every minute is a living hell. Just what difference does a "keeping yourself safe" booklet help in your situation? Forgive me if I'm wrong but I wouldn't have thought it would help you hugely?

Getting your agitation down to a tolerable level seems to me to be your most urgent need at this moment. Do you have any prescribed meds which can dampen down those thoughts and sedate you mildly? Just to allow you to get some mental respite for a short while? Forgive my ignorance, I'm totally out of the loop with the system but have had 2 hospitalisations for acute agitation in the past and am currently trying to self-manage a lengthy episode.

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 ----------

I'm really glad to hear that you were able to speak to your friend. Just talking to someone who is genuinely there for you really helps and also gets you back into normality. It's easy to forget that there is a world out there when you're in the grips of mental anguish

[Goldenbuddha001]

Yes Pulisa, I am taking Trazodone 50mg which my psychiatrist prescribed to me on Friday.
Prior to that I was taking Abilify for two weeks. I had a weeks spell in hospital whilst I was put on it but felt along with the other psychotics that it didn't agree with me. Rebound anxiety I believe was the catalyst for me going into hospital as previously explained on here I was on & off it from Nov-Jan.

So, now I am on Trazodone. I didn't want to take it last night as I felt it might be magnifying things so I am in a catch 22 position. Buggered if I take it & buggered if I don't given last nights antics, least it gave me some relief. It may be a case of persevering to see if it provides further relief with agaitaiton/anxiety levels. Just time is of the essence! I am not sure what to do.

You're absolutely right, they don't like people being proactive & knowledgeable when it comes to the mental health system, they seem to see this as a threat.
They don't favour dealing with aware individuals who can consciously speak for themselves, that much is evident.

I have just got off the phone with the liaison manager & she is going consult with the crisis team manager to shake them up a bit, I think I have done the right thing but like you're also aware of how they can turn things against you & label you a nuisance! This is my health & it is imperative that I get the help I need!

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

"I'm really glad to hear that you were able to speak to your friend. Just talking to someone who is genuinely there for you really helps and also gets you back into normality. It's easy to forget that there is a world out there when you're in the grips of mental anguish"


Absolutely! It helps having an outlet to get things off your chest, just like this forum which has been a lifeline.
Yes, it's like you have to shut yourself off an extent in order to function. It's a very frightening place to be.
I hope that this anguish/anxiety dies down soon!

[pulisa]

You've got absolutely the right attitude, Golden! Just keep being persistent-it's the only way to get things done to your satisfaction. You are not being unreasonable-your arguments are entirely cogent.

I was put on trazodone by a psych a while back. It did help with sedation but with nothing else. The thing is at the moment you just need the sedating aspect of it to cope with the agitation. I'm not sure how often you can take it throughout the day but you will have far more info than me. Trazodone seems to be being prescribed a lot more now for its sedating properties alone. I'm with you on the anti psychotics- horrible drugs prescribed far too freely

[Goldenbuddha001]

It's just 50mg to be taken before bed. Which I have found wears off usually just after lunch time making things tricky in the hours proceeding to bedtime.

How long were you on Trazodone Pulisa may I ask?
Yes, you make a valid point about the aspect of sedation. I am undecided till next week depending on what happens as to whether or not I will continue with it. He may suggest an increase or a complete change, like you say the first port of call has to be bringing the agitation/anxiety down to a more manageable level.

I am pleased that you agree with my mentality on this matter, things shouldn't have to be this way given what I am already battling but maybe this will prompt them into action & provide something like a home visit till my psychiatrist returns from leave. Whatever happens I hope my feedback helps others, especially on the matter of dishing out information on services no longer accessible.

[pulisa]

I'm sure it will do. Doing something to help others is very therapeutic too-your input really does matter.

I was on trazodone for a few months. The only thing I get relief from is diazepam but I know that all the doctors hate benzos now. Quite why they think anti psychotics are more "benign" is beyond me. I found clonazepam too sedating as I'm a carer for my daughter and needed to still be able to function (at least physically). Diazepam gave me a small window of peace.

[Goldenbuddha001]

The only thing to date that has helped me is diazepam.
The instant relief helped me back last year at the beginning but later discovered it lost its potency & certainly wasn't feeling the benefit of it any longer.
The problem is how addictive it is like with most benzodiazepines & the aspect of withdrawal. It's a nightmare. The rebound anxiety especially. Thankfully I can rule that out now. I haven't had any since late December, but it's evident that my anxiety levels are still being affected.

The other problem is that it should only be a temporary measure for relief so it's a double edged sword really.

May I ask, what have you found to be successful in assisting you in coping with your condition other than valium?

Thank you for your replies Pulisa, it's been nice chatting with you. :)

[pulisa]

Certainly anti depressants haven't helped me-quite the opposite. I'm not really sure what does help, to be honest. I'm not on any meds so I just have to somehow get through the day and night. I can't talk about it to my family. I just have to try and be of use to others if that makes any sense? Makes me feel less "unusual".

I have to go and pick up my daughter now but I just wanted to say that I do hope that things get better very soon and that you get some feedback from the crisis team asap. I will check in here again later.

Warmest wishes and hang on in there!

[Goldenbuddha001]

Thank you love. I hope so too!

xx

[jadedreams]

Hi Golden, I have been reading you're thread and am sorry to hear you are going through such a hard time. I have OCD with harm obsessions too, mainly about myself but rarely about others. I understand a lot of what you're saying, you get these thoughts and you wonder whether it was a harm obsession or true ideation. It's a very difficult place to be in and I sympathize with you. I have been told by a therapist and psychologist that they are only thoughts and to just let them go. But a lot of times that is very hard to do, especially when they upset you so much.

I too would dearly love all of this to just go away, but I know it won't happen that quickly. Stay strong and just keep going is all I can say, I know how hard that is to do - but if you need to talk we are all here for you.

[pulisa]

As regards the "just let them go" advice re thoughts-wouldn't it be great if it were that easy......

Hoping that you may have had some contact with someone helpful this pm, Golden?

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi,

I didn't hear back. They probably will contact me tomorrow. Just trying to hang on till Monday when my psychiatrist returns. Like you say it's difficult to just let the thoughts visit when they feel like urges. It's the emotional response to them that I struggle with. You really feel like you're going to act & that you're destined to do so which leaves you feeling like you're unable to enjoy any aspect of life.

I went for a long walk this evening. Had a good old cry. Felt good to let everything out. I am anxious about tomorrow as it's my usual routine for shopping. Even though I feel quite unwell I feel isolated at home so it's a struggle whatever I do. There's a feeling of anxiety & dread. I am going to attempt to listen to some zen reiki meditation music now before bed. I have a med to help with sleep.

Many thanks for your concern & hello to you jadedreams. :)

[pulisa]

I just wanted to say that I know that today will be very stressful for you with your shopping trip but staying at home is an equally grim option as there's no hiding place from this stuff, is there? I certainly hope that you will have some feedback from the crisis team today-Monday is days away and many hours and minutes as you know full well.

My contribution here is pretty useless as I'm just stating the obvious. Do you think the diazepam withdrawal could be still affecting you now? I know that withdrawal can be prolonged and brutal.

[Goldenbuddha001]

Yes Pulisa it could well be. This new medication is making things worse that's for sure. It helps me sleep but since I woke up I have felt strong suicidal urges. I feel so distressed & feel increasingly more desperate.
The manager of the crisis team rung me this morning. The patients alliance got onto her & expressed her concerns. She is going to make some calls to see what can be arranged.

I feel like I should be in hospital in all honesty Pulisa till my shrink returns. I am holding no one to ransom but what am I meant to do when staff are lacking in compassion & empathy & are just dismissive. I had to make that call to say I am sorry but I am not just being brushed aside like that. All of this has made me feel more stressed when it needn't. Completely unnecessary.

Something has to be done that much is for certain. If I could wait till Monday I would. Like you say, it's day's away & when you're at your lowest...

[pulisa]

I think hospital would be the safest thing for you, Golden, with your thoughts being relentless and tormenting. You need to be safe although you know that standards are not as they should be amongst mental health staff. Do you feel you can contact the crisis team again this afternoon and mention your suicidal thoughts and your desire for admission until your psych returns? Do you have anyone with you at the moment?

[Goldenbuddha001]

The doctor has requested to see me by emergency appointment in just under two hours. Still waiting for that call via the crisis team manager who promised me it would be by 1pm!

[pulisa]

That's something. At least you will be assessed. I hope you will be listened to. Please tell the doctor everything. I really wish you well-you are doing absolutely the right thing. You need to feel safe xx

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:41 ----------

I know what it's like when every minute seems like an age

[Goldenbuddha001]

I have been scheduled an appointment with my psychiatrists junior doctor for tomorrow morning. I just hope I can hang on till then.

If I hadn't of pushed for that I would of been left by the wayside. Thank goodness for that crisis team manager! I honestly don't know how I have had the mental strength to do all of this considering!

I still have my doctors appointment shortly. I am scared to leave the house.

:weep:

[pulisa]

Your survival instinct is strong and you know you must protect yourself. No matter how daunting you have to go to your appointment this pm. The doctor may be able to get you access to hospital

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

I'm going to have to log off now but I really hope you get somewhere with the doctor xx

[Goldenbuddha001]

You're right she might be able to do an emergency assessment & could deem it necessary for me to go sooner.

Thank you all for your support Pulisa. I really appreciate it.

xxx

[pulisa]

I sincerely hope that you are in a place of safety now, Golden. You have done so well to get your voice heard amongst all the bureaucracy of mental health xx

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Pulisa, I was admitted again today. I had to wait some time for a bed but luckily I am on a ward I am familiar with. The staff here are much more on the ball.

I am relieved to be here given the way I am feeling.

I just hope I can get my medication sorted. I had a diazepam earlier but that didn't help much.

My head is just so sore from the pressure of it all.

Golden,

[pulisa]

Really pleased to hear that you are in a safe place and that things are better than last time. You will have some security knowing that you will be kept safe over the weekend and into Monday when your psych returns..

Am really sorry that you are suffering so much but you did so well to get your case heard. Please take care xx

[Goldenbuddha001]

Pulisa, even though I am here I am terrified of hurting the other patients. One in particular my mind has latched onto who was here the first time I was admitted who I liked & still like

My mind keeps forcing me to have the thoughts of hurting people as a way to see my response to that thought/Impulse. I keep on imagining myself in a situation where I would have the opportunity to hurt them or not to see or feel if I would actually do it, or to see my response. It's overwhelming.

I have basically locked myself in my room. I have refused to continue with Trazodone & any antipsychotic drug listed such as risperidone which I haven't previously been able to tolerate. I won't revert back to things that haven't worked just to make things convenient for anyone especially antipsychotics!

The only thing I have had is lorazepam. I have had no choice as no other PRN medication can be given. Even though it perhaps has a shorter life span than diazepam I personally feel it's more potent. I didn't want to take another benzodiazepine but I want rid of this tradazone from my system ASAP & need something in the immediate to help me manage. I just hope that will be enough till my psychiatrist comes back. I hope he isn't angry with me either because I had no choice but to come here.

[pulisa]

You had no choice at all and have done the right thing. You must be in absolute torment-can you talk to any of the members of staff at all about these thoughts and fears and how you are having to isolate yourself due to these urges?

You know yourself best as to which drugs work for you. You have to do what it takes to get yourself through until Monday. There should have been more back-up for you whist your psych was away-he certainly won't be angry with you. I think you have been badly let down by a system which is very hit and miss xx

[Goldenbuddha001]

Hi Pulisa. It's a bit quiet with it being weekend but they are in the know of how I am feeling. I have requested for some one-one time for this evening.

The lorazepam has at least helped me interact to some extent today.

Yes, he should of put something in place whilst he was on leave, he may well have done just that but they haven't done anything about it, they certainly will have to now.

I just hope I will get through all of this.

[pulisa]

If the lorazepam helps you get through this awful period then you must take it-anything which makes life remotely bearable for you.

It's just one more day now until Monday but I know how long 24 hours can be when you're in torment. I hope you managed to get some one-to-one time with the staff last night-surely they must be able to talk to you and help you deal with these terrifying thoughts?