A tricky one....

[uru]

So my GAD this time has latched onto Islam. I'm having a really hard time. I've spent most of this weekend reading articles and looking through Facebook and Twitter accounts.

I've basically stopped existing as the person I used to be and just live in panic now.

Basically my fears are around the growing numbers of Muslims in the UK. 6 months ago a sentence I've that would've seemed racist or absurd to me. But here's the thing, the more I learn about what's happening the scary it becomes.

1. The demographics
Muslims were 2% of the population in 2001 and in 2011 they were at least 5%. These look like small numbers but that's a more than double increase. By 2021 they will be 10%. In fact, they are already 10% of the school age population. By 2030 it could easily be 20%

2. Defenceless
The U.K. (And Europe) being religion free for a long while has lost its defences. Instead of worrying about the fact this religion is very mysognistic and homophobic, people are shouting 'racist' if it is criticised. A religion can't be a race.

3. Idiotic lefties
Many on the left seem determine to avoid any criticism of Islam for fear of being racist. They shut down legitimate criticism (which they wouldn't do for other religions) and so the only people talking about issues are the BNP etc.

4. Liberalising west
People assume that being born in the west will lead these kids to be more tolerant and liberal but that just isn't the case. I've spent hours on Twitter and FB looking for reassurance, looking at young Muslims Twitter and FB accounts. They are almost all hyper-religious, anti-Semitic and often homophobic.

5. Terror
Whenever a terrorist attack happens people say 'it has nothing to do with Islam' despite the terrorists clearly being Muslims, shouting alluha Akbar and calling themself things like 'Islamic' state. 600 British Muslims went to join ISIS. These were mostly young, well-educated people who were born in the UK. No Hindus went to join. There is clearly a problem with Islam.

6. Excuses
Again I see excuses that islamaphobia and poverty lead to terrorism, not religion. But Muslims countries like Jordan, had huge numbers of its people go to join IS. The one linking factor is Islam.

7. Islamaphobia
Why do we not have Christianapobia? Or buddistphobia? This word is stopping legitimate criticism.


Anyway, sorry for the long rant. I hope someone out there will reply because it feels like my life is ruined. I fear for the future of this country and the future of Europe. This all started a few months back and I'm really struggling to recover from it. Any help would be appreciated. I want my life back.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, I remember seeing your intro thread where you mentioned this and apologised for it. Ok, it's a sensitive subject but as far as they go, what isn't around here. I've just been talking about my itchy roids! :blush:

I meant to post on your intro and obviously forgot. Something I was hoping was that some of the Muslims on here would engage in a discussion that would help you work through this because I know of several and they are lovely, understanding people. The ones I have met have raised similar issues to what you have just said as they are concerned that their religion is being portrayed how these far right groups are displaying it.

The term "propaganda" was termed in WWII, wasn't it? A favourite weapon of anyone fighting in a war, we use it, the US uses it (as they did in Vietnam), ISIS use it, they all use it. It can be hard to know who is telling the truth and now we have the internet we have millions of bloggers and they are not always who they say they are.

The far left have been a problem for some time in the UK. This is the far left who through making people so afraid to challenge things have allowed paedophiles to flourish and I'm not just talking in recent years, there are links back decades ago to political parties. We still have MP's in power that turned a blind eye to such things or even supported causes connected to them! These same "loony" left have taken us down the PC brigade nightmare where you daren't even look at a black person if you are white because you must be thinking something bad. It's like a quiet hysteria.

I live near a large Asian community, largely Indian & Pakistani families, many of whom have been here for generations. I'm glad to say that throughout all of this, racial hatred has not spilled over. There have been several terror arrests in my city, one in the local community connected to the Glasgow attacks but things have gone on as normal. I wonder why this is? Perhaps because they aren't like that? The majority of the taxi firms in this city are ran by people from this community and they are great people from my experience. Sure, you get some idiots but to me that's just how it is regardless of skin colour, religion or anything else. Young men tend to be the focus, but then aren't some of them causing trouble or fighting somewhere anyway? Like I always say about the BNP (who are regarded as soft anyway to the real racists nowadays) if they weren't beating up old black women or little black kids, they would just be lobbing petrol bombs at the police in any other riot, robbing grannies of any colour or fighting on the football terraces. The "cause" appeals to them for one reason only, they can kick the crap out of another human being and feel it's "justified".

ISIS, and those before them and those after them, are not representative of Islam. If they were, why aren't all Muslims fighting everybody else? We did our fair share to them in the Crusades and don't forget the many atrocities in the name of Christianity over the years. This is just the current one.

Perhaps in 300 hundred years we will be having a war over the fact The Hairy Spaghetti Monster is really the one true deity? The issues would still be the same [INSERT REASON TO FIGHT HERE]

[uru]

Hi Terry,

Thanks for replying, it took a lot for me to post this and I assumed no one would reply.

1) I know there a 'good Muslims' and nice people. I actually have taught huge numbers of saudis and middle easterners. They are generally great.they don't share our beliefs though and so we avoid certain topics. I don't doubt for a second each one of them, lovely as they are, would quite happily see every last Jew on the planet dead. Niceness doesn't mean someone won't do something terrible.

2) you're right that not all Muslims joined ISIS. 600 odd did though. More than in our armed forces. And actually ISIS doesn't worry me they're barbaric but at least they're open about it and can be dealt with easily. What is more troubling for me is the Bham school Trojan horse takeover. 30% of parents were really happy that Hardcore Islam was being taught to their kids in a state school. The rest mostly kept quiet. Even today, according to reports, most in the community think it was a witch hunt. Despite the fact there was documented evidence of sex education being banned, pe being banned for girls, RE only concerning Islam, and extremist speakers being invited to speak at the school.

The worry thing about this to me is that the community don't seem to see it as a problem. Thus it seems to me this is perhaps how,many of them would like things to be. How are you going to,stop,a whole community -especially when they can vote?

You said why aren't all Muslims fighting everyone else? Well, this is the thing. One of the basic tenets, it turns out, of Islam is that Islam should become the global religion. Non-believers the enemy (look it up if you don't believe me). Now I have Muslim friends so I know not everyone follows this, but I'll bet many do. What I'm trying to say is there are different types of fighting - one is is ISIS, one is slowly taking over a country by demographics.

I think people in the UK aren't worried enough TBH. You Said yourself, several terror arrests near you...all from the Muslim community, right? Politicised Islam is on the rise in the UK.

I'm seriously considering leaving the country.

[MyNameIsTerry]

The thing is though, if I want my head kicked in by nutters, there are lots of places locally where just looking at someone funny will achieve it and they are all white. I can happily walk through the Muslim community.

I haven't see the issues with them locally. If anything, they are more concerned about the amount of Eastern European immigrants being housed near them because they complain their crimes rates are going up.

Several terror arrests indeed, all but one have been linked to London and based around publication of extremist literature. The schools are all mixed though, there are no dedicated ones other than Catholic ones which already existed, something which I think is outdated and should be removed from society anyway. Things are a bit daft in schools now due to the Left such as Xmas no longer being celebrated the way we used to. I'm not even sure other religions are all that bothered, it mainly seems to be the Left, Corbyn's type, that moan on about changing this. Am I scared about the terror arrests though? Not really. I would be more scared of the organised crime gangs we have, they are very active and falling foul of them is a certain way to a reduced lifespan. So, from my point of view, I would be living in a bubble in a city like mine as there are plenty of violent people, gangs, criminals, ex armed thugs, etc that I can run into, I've known some in the past from my drinking days.

In terms of non believers, and bare in mind I'm not familiar with religious text as to be honest I don't care and take people based on my own opinion of them as I'm agnostic, but I did study history and it is also littered with barbarism in the name of Christianity, or whatever religion was popular at the time. Catholicism killed many, the CoE was created and forced onto many innocent people at the tip of a sword and many others were persecuted or killed. So, the way I look at people like ISIS is how I look at historical figures, like these people are where we were hundreds of years ago and if we hadn't advanced, we would still be doing it too.

Extremism is a worry when you see the issues with schools. But you know what? How can I change anything? The government will do what they want to and my life just plods on. We have immigration issues in the UK that have been in need of something going back before "Tricky" Tony Blair and so now we do have these people who have sneaked in under the radar. It would be very nice if France stopped looking the other way over their camps and it's looking like Belgium has some serious problems. But I apply the same logic to this as I do to Russia, North Korea, etc...what can I do? What if nothing happens in my life time, will I have just wasted my life worrying about something for nothing?

I realise this doesn't help you, this is why it would be great to see some Muslim members also talking as I've seen some say things about how their religion is being twisted into something else, and I cannot explain in like they can. I just know who I know and I see them as good people. Their religion doesn't change that to me, many people observe their religions just because they have to, CoE is a good example of that one.

It's certainly a tricky issue. I hope you get some more replies to this though because it's important to you, just like the worries of war to others. War is simple though, isn't it? You know who you are fighting & why. There is subterfuge in this issue and the problem with anxiety is we want black & white answers (no pun intended :doh:) but we can't always have them so how do we come to terms with them & accept them? And this is a very complicated & detailed issue to work through.

[uru]

Hey Terry,

Thanks a lot for replying again. I have the feeling you might be the only one who does.

The main problem I have now is knowing how to live in my current state. I managed to get things slightly under control by not reading newspapers or facebook etc for about a month.

I felt a bit better so I went back to them. I can see that that might have been a mistake but do I have to avoid papers for the rest of my life?

I'm really suffering because of this. It's follow other anxiety episodes I have my this time it's 10x worse. I'm losing weight (weight I can't afford to lose), I'm losing sleep, no appetite and I literally spent the whole weekend just googling stuff. I'm doing the classic reassurance seeking but not finding any reassurance.

I'm having counseling but I'm not sure it's going to help. I had 3 session but I asked my counselor if he could meet me twice a week because I've had this recent relapse.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of what is causing this...

---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------

what you say about gangs is also logical but I have a greater fear. Crime gangs are one thing, having my way of life changed from underneath me from a fairly tolerant to a less tolerant society is an appalling idea to me. I feel like as a left winger I've been cheated somehow. We allowed people to come here who claimed to be fleeing oppressive regimes and now some of them want to make this country more oppressive -and may well succeed!


Extremism is a worry when you see the issues with schools. But you know what? How can I change anything? The government will do what they want to and my life just plods on. We have immigration issues in the UK that have been in need of something going back before "Tricky" Tony Blair and so now we do have these people who have sneaked in under the radar. It would be very nice if France stopped looking the other way over their camps and it's looking like Belgium has some serious problems. But I apply the same logic to this as I do to Russia, North Korea, etc...what can I do? What if nothing happens in my life time, will I have just wasted my life worrying about something for nothing?

I envy how relaxed you are about this :D I wish I could be like this. It's really ruining my life.

It's not just what's going on but also the left's seeming abandonment of its core values (free speech, equality, liberty) in favour of appeasing a intolerant minority. Worse still is that university aged kids up and down the country seem to buy into this nonsense. Did you see the Goldsmith's feminist and Gay and lesbian society recently side with the Islamic society over the invitation of an ex-muslim to speak at their uni?

I feel old saying this but 'it's political correctness gone mad'.

Anyway, yes, it is a complex issue. My GAD has found something excellent to latch onto this time. I'm not sure I'm going to come out of the over side of it. I feel like I might end up in a hospital the way I'm going.

[Fishmanpa]

This is a tricky one in a sense but then again, it's not at all due to the fact that we have absolutely no control over it (like just about everything else concerning irrational fears). I'm not saying the situation doesn't warrant some concern but in the big picture, is it really something to be consumed with? Is it really any different than what happened in the name of Christianity hundreds of years ago?

To coin a Monty Python quote:

"No one expects the Spanish Inquisition" :D (Smiling because it's one funny Monty Python bit... not the actual actions perpetrated. The Mel Brooks bit is pretty good too!)

Again, what happened in Nazi Germany during WWII brings a similar situation.

"IF" these things come to pass, like Global warming changing the face of the planet or asteroids hitting the Earth, most of us will be long gone and dust. One has to choose the battles they fight and for the vast majority of the world, these battles are left to those in power. To me, this is one battle not worth fighting. Most of us have enough on our plates, and to bring something as vast and politically entrenched as this is not worth the time of day IMO. I think it's definitely something to be discussed with your therapist. Figuring out why you latched onto this fear would help you overcome it.

Positive thoughts

[uru]

Thanks Fishmanpa.

[MyNameIsTerry]

How about coming at it from another angle to remove the detail? What about focussing less on the complexity of the issue and looking more at the impact on you that it has.

So, a therapist could consider what would be an "in range" reaction to al of the above. For instance, I might fall "in range" because it doesn't bother me much more than the average person who reads a paper and it causes me no anxiety. BUT someone who heads of to Syria to fight is bothered to a very advanced level AND it is because they want to make a difference within their belief system. BUT in someone who stands up to campaign against ISIS they are bothered to an advanced level out of a sense of duty. BUT in someone experience anxiety, they AVOID instead and become trapped by their fear.

Maybe looking at it from how it is affecting your life is more important than the issue itself? You can still be actively interested & even work towards change, good or bad, as in the above basic examples BUT those don't involve anxiety/panic and limiting your life.

So, if you are struggling with symptoms, becoming agoraphobic, finding it hard to maintain relationships, etc then if this is not considered "normal range" based on your demographic, then perhaps it is anxiety/panic and to be worked on? You could be forgiven for feeling closer to that if you were in one of those countries but over here there are limits to what your reaction should be from a fear perspective.

This is another reason why it would be good to hear from others. There are people who have lived in those war torn counties who understand the fear in their society.

[uru]

I think you're right Terry, it's basically the reaction that is causing the problems. I have to somehow find a way to scale down my reaction.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I spotted you are a teacher in one of your recent posts. I think that might explain some of this. Do/Did you teach children? I didn't pick up on the teaching properly in what you said above as I wasn't clear that is was a teaching job as opposed to some form of training.

If you followed the POCD cases on the OCD board you would see how they are all either parents, teachers, people who work with children or have done, etc. That's what I've seen in threads raised since being here anyway.

All people with a social & moral code to children that I would expect to be stronger than many of us hence why their POCD targets children to produce the maximum effect it does.

You did mention the issues with schools so I wonder whether it is concern out of that moral towards children too. Preventing radicalisation to keep them safe?

I might be way off but wanted to throw it there in case it shines a light on anything. People with intrusive thoughts don't often make the connection either until they read about OCD and understand the themes and then it opens up things like this, their commitment to the party in their thoughts.

[uru]

Hmm interesting, thanks for the thought. I'll go an look up pocd...I don't teach kids though, mostly adults.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I'm not suggesting POCD, please don't think that, it's a very emotive form of OCD.

I just meant that those people are shocked by their OCD because it centres on abuse of children (often their own) and you mentioned your worries about extremism in schools and with you being a teacher I was wondering whether some of it stems from that strong moral code? Intrusive thoughts are the opposite of character & morals, hence POCD sufferers being afraid of their thoughts because they are good people who love their children or care about children. Anxiety likes to pick our weaknesses and exploit them.

[uru]

With my counsellor I talked about a few issues.

1. Strong sense of 'fair play' -I hate discrimination, hate inequality -I may feel some people in the UK are not playing the game and are getting away with it.
2. need for control - like to feel in control of my environment, -this threatens that.

That's also coupled with two other issues.

a) The obvious sensitive nature of the topic which makes it hard to discuss -fear people might call me a bigot.
b) Avoiding talking about it makes me feel like a coward who is allowing bad things to happen in the world.

My mind has made an exquisite trap for itself.