View Full Version : Please help, awful work situation and need advice
GirlAfraid23
27-01-16, 13:20
I haven't been on here in a while, but started a new job in September. It all started off fairly well, everyone was friendly and I thought all was fine.
Anyway, fast forward a few months & I've been bullied and singled out at work. Certain people keep picking up on what I'm doing and acting as though I'm incapable.
Then the final straw, I was called into the headteacher's office (I work in a school) and was told an "accusation" had been made against me...that I had said something terrible to the child I work one to one with. Of course I didn't say it and wouldn't dream of saying anything like it.
I broke down crying in her office and was absolutely devastated that anybody would say that about me.
I'm now so paranoid they will make up something worse about me, I just couldn't take that.
I couldn't go into work today, so I called in sick this morning.
I have a GP appointment at 4pm this afternoon when I am going to try and get signed off as I can't go in, I just can't do it. I'm not a strong enough person. I've been ignored and treated very badly for months now. This is the cherry on the cake! :(
I'm still in my probation period and I'm so worried they will dismiss me before I hand in my notice as they've already had to warn me about my absence. I had a chest infection & pleurisy before Christmas and a sickness bug a few months before that.
Can I hand in my notice while I'm on sick leave? How does it work? I feel sick about calling in and telling them I've been signed off (if the GP agrees!).
I don't want it to hinder my chances of getting another job in the future.
Sadly this happens way to much in education, I work in a secondary school where you are made to feel as if you are letting the whole world down if you take time off.
You can hand your notice in while on sick leave but I would wait until you go back and you should have a "return to work2 interview where you can bring everything up there, you could also request an Occupational Health meeting.
If your head has anything about them then the complaint against you should be handled correctly and the issue dismissed.
You don't say if you are a teacher or TA but if you are a member of a union then speak to them for advise.
Sounds terrible.
But I don't think this is an anxiety problem. If you're being bullied then that's a real worry. Make a note of everything people say and do...you might need these in the future.
Consider recording incidents of bullying if you can, on your phone.
The child who is lying about you cant be allowed to get away with this behaviour.
I understand how you feel.
A customer once made some derogatory, untrue comments about myself. I was very upset.
Speak to your Union and stand your ground. You know you didn't say those unkind things. It will not be the first or last time a child makes something up - its happened to teacher friends of mine. Was it a colleague who said you made those remarks? If so that is probably what hurts most of all.
Don't resign just get some support to help you get through this.
Maybe they will get ulcers on their tongue for telling lies (old wives tale) & being so damn mean!
:hugs:
GirlAfraid23
27-01-16, 19:10
Thanks everyone.
Sorry, just to make it clear, it was a member of staff who made the false allegation which makes it even worse :(
Jesus...that totally sucks...sounds just like my school in Burnley!!
That's awful. Speak to your union. Don't hand your notice in - go on the sick for stress/bullying and they will still have to pay you.x
MyNameIsTerry
28-01-16, 06:27
Was the person accusing you actually present at the time you are alleged to have said it? If not, how do they know? Have they followed the correct procedures?
Won't the child need to be spoken to in order to understand whether this is true? (age dependant)
What about the child's parents? Won't they need to be informed?
To me this is a disciplinary matter and will require investigation of both sides in order to determine what has really happened, or if it has actually happened at all. The outcome could be there is no evidence and nothing changes for you. You should consider putting in a complaint about the accuser and any bullying which will result in a separate (but accounted for) investigation.
I know this is extremely unpleasant, I spent over a year fighting my employer for reasonable adjustments. But is running away from this going to work? Will it even stop an investigation? How will that be recorded and will it affect you in this sector? So, is getting help from your union and seeing this through the better option, albeit it will be very stressful but you have support on here from us lot.
I don't want to upset you with what I have said but I think you need to look at the realities here too, not only the issues around your anxiety. My mum worked in schools for over 30 years and I've heard some right stories of nasty teachers & head teachers, underhand treatment, backstabbing, managing staff out to safe money, etc. My mum's school was clearly a bad working environment for the teachers and other staff and al the original teachers ended up leaving to get away from it all leaving the place with grads who only stayed a year or two before they saw the same treatment...so the head could keep her costs down.
GirlAfraid23
28-01-16, 07:15
Was the person accusing you actually present at the time you are alleged to have said it? If not, how do they know? Have they followed the correct procedures?
Won't the child need to be spoken to in order to understand whether this is true? (age dependant)
What about the child's parents? Won't they need to be informed?
To me this is a disciplinary matter and will require investigation of both sides in order to determine what has really happened, or if it has actually happened at all. The outcome could be there is no evidence and nothing changes for you. You should consider putting in a complaint about the accuser and any bullying which will result in a separate (but accounted for) investigation.
I know this is extremely unpleasant, I spent over a year fighting my employer for reasonable adjustments. But is running away from this going to work? Will it even stop an investigation? How will that be recorded and will it affect you in this sector? So, is getting help from your union and seeing this through the better option, albeit it will be very stressful but you have support on here from us lot.
I don't want to upset you with what I have said but I think you need to look at the realities here too, not only the issues around your anxiety. My mum worked in schools for over 30 years and I've heard some right stories of nasty teachers & head teachers, underhand treatment, backstabbing, managing staff out to safe money, etc. My mum's school was clearly a bad working environment for the teachers and other staff and al the original teachers ended up leaving to get away from it all leaving the place with grads who only stayed a year or two before they saw the same treatment...so the head could keep her costs down.
The person was apparently present at the time it was said, but I didn't say it so clearly it's been made up or misheard.
During the meeting with the head, I was told it won't be taken any further and she wasn't planning to do anything with the information she had. As she must believe me or doesn't believe the other person or whatever.
They can't really take it any further as they have no proper evidence. The child is too young (only 4) to be questioned and they won't inform parents because there's no evidence to support I definately said it. I would never, ever speak to an adult like that, let alone a child. That's what hurts the most. Everyone who knows me, knows I would never do that and it's not in my nature. This person is clearly trying to stir up & get me into trouble.
I've worked with children for years and I've never been accused of anything like this before. It'a ridiculous.
I have joined a union about it in case things come up again or something else gets dragged into it.
MyNameIsTerry
28-01-16, 07:50
Well that says it all then, there is no case for anything. But why should you suffer for the actions of this person? Why should you be made to go off sick and work elsewhere?
I would suggest talking to your union about how to raise the issues of bullying and add in this false allegation. An investigation can dredge up other things about that person that may add to it.
I am surprised that the parents are not informed at all though. Whilst you have not done anything it also means that those who have, but can't be proved, may have upset a child. Although I would hope the child would tell their parents or the parents see the distress caused.
I hope you can move forward from this.
So a co-worker claimed you said something about a kid?
nursegreenwhippet
28-01-16, 08:32
Sorry to hear that, what a terrible thing to happen. Anyone would feel anxious and upset about it, it is totally normal how you feel. Sometimes you can get really sneaky people that are very cunning about putting others down. I read a book on it as I used to teach communications to vet nurses. They are often quiet friendly and may build you up initially, then drop a bomb shell to knock you right down. It is difficult to catch them out and some of them don't even know they are doing it. The same type of people have violent relationships. You need to be upfront with school and stick to your guns, they cant sack you if they have no evidence - which they wont. Let us know how things work out.
GirlAfraid23
28-01-16, 20:33
So a co-worker claimed you said something about a kid?
They claimed I told her to "shut up, you're getting on my nerves" which I definitely didn't say.
---------- Post added at 20:33 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------
I'm very concerned someone is going to exaggerate or fabricate something else about me now, something worse :(
And I'm also worried as I've gone on sick leave with stress and anxiety and the head already spoke to me about my absence and said we needed a further meeting to discuss and see how I'm doing in a few weeks. Now that few weeks have gone and I'm on sick leave again, through no fault of my own obviously! But as I'm still on probation I'm concerned she will dismiss me when I return and then it'll be very difficult to get a reference for my next job :(
This is causing me so much stress and anxiety. I've already got enough issues, I'm questioning my own integrity. I've always been very conscientious at work and I pride myself on that so it's really hurtful and upsetting that someone has done this.
Surely they could have taken me to one side and spoken to me about it, instead of going running off to the head to report me :(
All my physical symptoms are coming back...IBS, high heart rate etc. I've been prescribed beta blockers to help manage my anxiety and calm me down...all the worst case scenarios are coming into my head, being sacked, having no money, not being able to pay my rent, being evicted by our landlord, having no money for food, being unable to find another job because of a lack of reference etc :( :(
I'm nothing but nice to people. It's not fair :(
Sadly if you stay in education you need to get used to this, I have worked at school in Burnley for 11 years and staff are ALWAYS going behind each others backs, it's basically to try and score "brownie points" but unfortunately it is just like the staff have regressed to same level as the kids.
When I first started a couple of members of staff somehow got it into their brains that I was the headteachers son!!! and caused me all sorts of hassle and made it very difficult for me to get accepted.
If your absenteeism is justified then to be dismissed for it would be very harsh, all you need to do is do your job 100% and make them want to keep you. Schools are under a lot of pressure financially and need to prove "value for money", make sure you are that member of staff who proves there worth.
If you are non-teaching then you have probably joined UNISON, they are huge and have a lot of top quality union reps, request a meeting with your local area rep as soon as you can and get advise from them
Good luck
Emmakatie1027
28-01-16, 22:07
I'd say it's not worth it. I lost two stone in a couple of months plus other symptoms such as not sleeping, depression, panic attacks ect because of work. Financially it's a big worry but if you can't get on with your job because of sour faced so and so's then it's a lot harder to deal with. I've been there a few times now and recently and my health has really gone down hill because of the stress. Nothing else was actually getting me down apart from work and that was making me ill so I became more and more depressed. It's other people's problem if they have a problem with you-it shows that your the better person and that they are the ones with the problem. I've had similar troubles myself but you have to rise above it and try not to let it get to you-be strong. They are trying to push you out and it's not on! You deserve to be happy like everyone else.
GirlAfraid23
30-01-16, 21:57
I still feel awful about this :( feel sick, my anxiety is so high.
I've worked with children for four years now and a lot of these have been difficult behaviours etc and I've never been called out on anything because I've always followed proper procedure when administering discipline.
I'm so worried I will get a bad reference from them, I've already had a warning about sickness so it's probably coming :(
Can I resign while on sick leave? So effectively, not return? Use the sickness as notice period, also not sure I will need notice as I'm in my probation period. I really can't imagine how it will be when I go back there, probably horrific.
Work is making me so anxious and stressed, it brings on panic attacks and I cant deal with it. I am always so quiet and reserved at work, I'm polite & nice to everyone, don't join in with the bitching and I always smile at everyone. I try my best, but clearly it's not enough.
The person I think it is, is a person who has made me feel uncomfortable for some time now and doesn't even say hello when I say hi in the mornings. She ignores me when I speak to her. She's so stony faced to me and I've done nothing wrong.
I feel like she and some of the others are constantly watching me and making me feel like I'm doing things wrong. I'm always apologising.
I'm so afraid this incident is going to tarnish my record and therefore the rest of my life will be spent trying and failing to get a job, while getting poorer and poorer and eventually ending up not being able to pay the rent or provide for myself and my partner.
I've now become really paranoid of everyone, even strangers and I feel like I might keep getting accused of things I didn't do. I hate being in trouble :(
Emmakatie1027
30-01-16, 22:07
You can hand your notice in while being off sick. If work is affecting your health and you feel you can not cope going back then maybe it's for the best. If you stay you will only get more ill and it's not worth it. There will always be people that arnt nice that will make it tough for you but you either have to not let them get to you or try and get on with the job and ignore them. It's easier said then done I know but there will be a job that's a lot less stress free. This person has a problem with you and is trying to push you out of this job.
The person was apparently present at the time it was said, but I didn't say it so clearly it's been made up or misheard.
During the meeting with the head, I was told it won't be taken any further and she wasn't planning to do anything with the information she had. As she must believe me or doesn't believe the other person or whatever.
Everyone who knows me, knows I would never do that and it's not in my nature. This person is clearly trying to stir up & get me into trouble.
I've worked with children for years and I've never been accused of anything like this before. It'a ridiculous.
Before you do anything hasty GirlAfraid, do you think the head might actually be on your side if you give her the chance? The fact she didn't pursue it, but is duty bound to follow up these things or else her own position is at risk, makes me wonder if you could actually have an ally there. In my experience troublemakers have usually got form - it is easy to take it personally and think you are their only victim, but often there are a whole list of casualties that suffered something similar before they got to you. There is every chance that your head has a good idea about the maliciousness of your accuser, but may genuinely be concerned about the stress you are under also.
As stated by another member, you can give notice while on the sick. I have had to do this myself in the past and never went back, but you must be sure you can't retrieve anything from the situation and I still think you may have something worth fighting for. Sometimes if you get past this point you may find other colleagues may hate this person just as much as you for similar reasons, but bullying types have great success in intimidating many of those around them into silence. Then there is also the union to support you, who will be well used to this kind of behaviour in the education sector.
If you leave at this point it will make it tougher to get work again unless you can move straight into something else and give a positive reason for the change if you wish to go back into that sector subsequently. It would still be awkward explaining though if it didn't seem to be a sensible career move. Again, you could follow this route if you can't bear it any longer and you feel all is lost, but it does feel worse to let the bullies win - why the hell should they - YOU'VE DONE NOTHING WRONG - but THE BULLY HAS!!!!!!
So do give it some serious thought over the weekend before doing a 'Frankly Mr. Shankly!'
Tyke :unsure:
I agree with Tyke. The Head is being fair & is on your side. Your colleague did not stick to facts but exaggerated & cannot be relied on. Tell the Head about this person's behaviour how she ignores you & shows contempt. Its destructive to (your) morale & the wellbeing of the school & pupils.
I have experienced something similar. When one is low/very anxious catastrophic thoughts come so easily plus. feelings of paranoia. There are issues to be raised with the Head & dealt with. You cannot help being sick & this colleague's behaviour is making things worse.
I don't know if HR, or another organisation for those working in schools can support you.
I believe changes can be made to help & support you so don't throw in the towel!:hugs:
Chocolateface
31-01-16, 13:27
You have had some good advice here from a lot of people take on board what they have said before making a decision.
Also I didn't think bad references could be given any more I tjought they could only say facts eg worked from / to etc is there any way you can use a previous employer for a reference stating that ypu have worked with this person longer etc
If you do decide to move on try to present everything in a positive light
Good luck
Clare
MyNameIsTerry
01-02-16, 06:10
You have had some good advice here from a lot of people take on board what they have said before making a decision.
Also I didn't think bad references could be given any more I tjought they could only say facts eg worked from / to etc is there any way you can use a previous employer for a reference stating that ypu have worked with this person longer etc
If you do decide to move on try to present everything in a positive light
Good luck
Clare
They stopped employers being able to give an intentionally negative reference. An employer can choose to give a very weak positive one though or just refuse to offer one. My last employer, a multinational, wouldn't issue references and only confirmed the dates you worked there.
However, this is a school so it may be public sector. Employment laws can differ between public & private sector, just like how the NHS gets away with flouting the discrimination laws that the private sector cannot. So, I'm not sure whether your employment record can be viewed in more detail when there are children involved.
Since the head is doing no investigation, they may have just done something informal to go in a folder rather than on someone's employment record. They may not have even done that if there are no grounds.
Generally speaking many employers now do not give much in the way of a reference becuse it is so time consuming and has potential legal consequences. Our council will only confirm details such as your job title and how long you've worked for them, though they do give the amount of time off for sickness. Basically anything that is black and white that they can pull straight off your HR record.
You've say you've worked with children for four years, so presumably you got the thumbs up from those jobs? Maybe you could use those referees again if necessary? The only difference that you may find is that working with children does give employers more reason to ask questions of anyone if they feel there is any hint of a 'child ptotection' (they call it 'safeguarding') issue. What happened in your case would seem to be way off that. To be honest my kids hear far worse on a daily basis from some of their fully qualified teaching staff! If I reported them every time I'd never be away from the school!
Your employer also has a duty to help manage your workload so that you are not under an unreasonable amount of stress, otherwise they can face legal action! The bullying is causing you stress! As far as dismissals go, there is a procedure to be followed. In a case like the one you describe you would expect a verbal or written warning if the disciplinary process has started and then you have to be given a set amount of time to 'improve'. I think most processes allow up to three warnings before dismissal. As far as I can tell you never reached number one! It maybe less favourable for probationers, but should still be along similar lines. I think your headteacher used her discretion and realised what a load of bull it was. She probaby gets stuff like that all the time from your accuser!
Do you like the job apart from the negativity of certain colleagues? If so maybe it is worth trying to tough it out to get through your probation? Get all the support you can and then maybe you could move on to another class or a different school in the future? If you don't like the job anyway then it is probably time to look for something else. Would a previous employer take you back if you were happy there?
Best of luck with this. I know how truly awful it is.
Tyke :unsure:
MyNameIsTerry
02-02-16, 04:49
Your employer also has a duty to help manage your workload so that you are not under an unreasonable amount of stress, otherwise they can face legal action! The bullying is causing you stress! As far as dismissals go, there is a procedure to be followed. In a case like the one you describe you would expect a verbal or written warning if the disciplinary process has started and then you have to be given a set amount of time to 'improve'. I think most processes allow up to three warnings before dismissal. As far as I can tell you never reached number one! It maybe less favourable for probationers, but should still be along similar lines. I think your headteacher used her discretion and realised what a load of bull it was. She probaby gets stuff like that all the time from your accuser!
You wouldn't get an amount of time to improve from a disciplinary process, that is to address an issue of conduct breached in your contract. So, you are expected not to do it again as a result of that meeting.
I think you mean a Capability process as this would include a set timeframe or suggested possible one. However, whilst this would be applied to the absenteeism (if required), it would not be applied to a matter of conduct as that requires a punitive process, the Disciplinary one. You can be sacked as a result of the first offence, it's a question of the level of the offence e.g. gross misconduct may mean instant dismissal. (OP - don't worry about this, this is more a serious incident and even what you were falsely accused of could never be seen as that)
Employers should have different processes for those. Capability can address a wide range of things e.g. job performance.
Also, the head needs to remain impartial in this or they are not acting as a good manager. By not taking this any further it is not a matter of taking sides, it may be there is not enough proof to warrant investigation. The other person probably does have a history of problems that the head is aware of but that doesn't translate into treating that member of staff differently.
GirlAfraid23
02-02-16, 22:27
Thanks everyone for all your help so far.
I'm trying my best to forget about the situation for the time being but I'm finding it increasingly difficult.
I'm getting concerned as when I'm when I'm out walking in the street (since the incident) I feel like I'm being watched and it's almost like I'm waiting to get into trouble again - as I mentioned before, this is mainly stressful because I don't like being in trouble...I also feel as though things are being kept from me.
I can't concentrate, I feel spaced out, keep forgetting everything, I'm easily startled and every time I hear footsteps up stairs when I'm outside, I feel I'm going to see someone from work. It's exhausting :(
Last night driving in the car, I realised I had the police behind me...normally this doesn't both me but I just watch what I'm doing a bit more, but this time it sent me into meltdown, I was so anxious, I felt I couldn't concentrate on driving properly, I was so worried about getting into trouble.
Also, a similar thing happened today when I was in a bank, I walked in and was the only person in there apart from a mother and her two young children. The kids were messing about and the mother was facing the bank desk (away from the children), I walked in, the boy pushed the girl and she fell over and started crying. A sudden feeling came over me as the mother looked round, I thought "what if she thinks I pushed her?" Obviously she didn't but this incident has sent my anxieties and paranoia spiralling.
I'm also so worried about losing my job, running out of money etc etc we are saving for a house but I might need to use those savings :(
I have a few questions:
- Am I allowed to go out when off sick with stress? - if I'm seen in a coffee shop or something I mean. I'm also considering going to the cinema on Friday night with my partner to distract myself for a while.
- Am I allowed to volunteer when signed off with stress?
- Can I hand in my notice while I'm off sick via email - was just thinking of saying how ill I am currently and I'm handing in my notice as its going on a lot longer than I expected. My notice is a month apparently :( so I'm speaking to my GP on the phone on Friday and I'm asking her to sign me off for another three weeks, then I can be off sick with stress and anxiety while I'm in my notice period.
---------- Post added at 20:12 ---------- Previous post was at 16:31 ----------
Can anyone answer my most recent questions? :(
---------- Post added at 22:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:12 ----------
Anyone? :( feeling really lost tonight
Yes - you can go out when off sick with stress. I knew a schoolteacher who did just that. In fact she was seen out so regularly people doubted her sickness was genuine - though my take on that would be she was stressed out by the job of course she would feel better and more able to function away from work, so why should she hide herself away, carrying on with her life as best she could seemed quite normal to me.
You would normally be able to hand your notice in by any means these days. It really depends what your contract states. Usually the contract just talks about the notice required, not how it's delivered. The only problem would be if the e-mail wasn't checked straight away or the person receiving was absent. When you hand it in at least you know the process has started and it does give your supervisor a chance to say anything if they want to.
Your question on voluntary work is less straight forward. If you've been signed off as 'unfit for work', I wouldn't think it would go down well that you were working for someone else, even if it was unpaid!
Do you really think it's time to go though? Maybe your GP could come up with something better to help you manage the stress when you see him on Friday.
Best of luck with this.
Tyke
Once when I was off sick with stress my doctor suggested I go on holiday for a few weeks so yes you can go out :) I agree with everything Tyke says, you shouldn't be doing voluntary work as you are signed as 'unfit for work'
Maybe you should have more time to think before you decide to hand in your notice. I know from some of your other past posts that you dwell on incidents and let them take over your rational thinking. I am the same and I have always hated to be in 'trouble' and find it difficult to move on from but you really must move on from it. It hasn't gone any further so try to put it behind you. (I know easier said than done!).
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