Transcedental Meditation

[smartie76]

Apologies if I have spelt this incorrectly, but has anyone else tried TM? I am a chronic sufferer of depression with extreme anxiety, and ocd, and just wondered it anyone else has tried this, and did it work?
There is a course starting up near me, but as it costs £300 , I really can't afford to do it, if it is not any different to any other meditation methods, as I have tried all those, and their effects are very short lived.
A work colleague told me that TM is different and that once you have learnt it, it is a skill for life?
I am currently weaning off Citalopram and switching to Venlafaxine next week, and for the first time ever, am signed off work with depression and anxiety, so feel pretty low at the moment .
Any thoughts from anyone with any experience of TM would be hugely appreciated. Many thanks for reading.

[Consider]

Any meditation can be done at home. There are even youtube videos for that, I am also curious about TM now that you mention it.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Any form of meditation can be considered a life skill but only as long as you keep doing it. TM is no different despite the claims that TM bodies make. TM fell out of fashion because of some of the major bodies involved but that doesn't mean that it's origins couldn't be useful, just that some of the people involved caused it's downfall. But fi you see TM sites bashing Mindfulness, beware, because I've read some of those and they talk garbage about what Mindfulness even does.

Personally, I wouldn't lash out all that cash until I was sure it was of use to me. So, why not use one of the many free or cheaper resources out there to check it out first?

[Nataliej1987]

I downloaded a meditation app on my phone and it really did help, only trouble is sometimes I could do with meditating but little one is about so I can't xxx

[smartie76]

Thanks everyone. I am going to an introductory talk (free) in a couple of weeks, so will post back what I think from that. I work with a lady who practices it, and she is the calmest person I know, so that inspired me. I have tried the apps etc, (Insight Timer is my favourite), but just am curious to know is TM as different as "they", my work colleague and my GP say?

[NoPoet]

Smartie76, when you say chronic depression, are you formally diagnosed with depression? Chronic depression sounds like dysthymia, which I gather is now being known as persistent depressive disorder. It's kind of like a depression where you still function almost normally, but it negatively affects your mood, beliefs and judgements - people who say "I don't know how to be happy" or feel they are "supposed to be miserable" are often describing dysthymia without realising it (since no-one's heard of it). I understand dysthymia is a separate diagnosis to depression, and depression can flare up now and then in someone with dysthymia, in which case the co-morbid conditions are called "double depression".

Dysthymia is not treatment-resistant, so it can be fixed, but it is very persistent. It survives because the person may not even know they have it, or more likely it does not make them feel bad enough that they feel the need to treat it.

Transcendental meditation is a particular discipline and I do not think it would be appropriate to pursue it at this point: there are lots of stories about experienced practitioners having all kinds of strange experiences which you simply won't be equipped to deal with yet. (EDIT: Same advice goes to anyone who's interested in past life regression hypnosis -- deal with your current life first, without opening a new and unexpected can of worms.)

The need to explore that discipline suggests you are trying to escape from the problem or transmute yourself into another state of being to escape your feelings. You need to teach yourself that you can overcome any problems as you are now, without having to be afraid of your thoughts and feelings.

My honest advice is to look on Youtube for relaxation and positivity music and videos, and to work on building up your confidence and self belief. Depression suggests a lack of self-belief, or a constant sense of frustration or failure. Those need to be challenged starting now. You may find it harder to meditate with upsetting or negative thoughts rumbling round like an unbroken storm in your brain. And resolving those thoughts may have the same calming, reassuring effect as meditating would anyway.

Are you in any kind of therapy?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Smartie76, when you say chronic depression, are you formally diagnosed with depression? Chronic depression sounds like dysthymia, which I gather is now being known as persistent depressive disorder. It's kind of like a depression where you still function almost normally, but it negatively affects your mood, beliefs and judgements - people who say "I don't know how to be happy" or feel they are "supposed to be miserable" are often describing dysthymia without realising it (since no-one's heard of it). I understand dysthymia is a separate diagnosis to depression, and depression can flare up now and then in someone with dysthymia, in which case the co-morbid conditions are called "double depression".

Dysthymia is not treatment-resistant, so it can be fixed, but it is very persistent. It survives because the person may not even know they have it, or more likely it does not make them feel bad enough that they feel the need to treat it.

Transcendental meditation is a particular discipline and I do not think it would be appropriate to pursue it at this point: there are lots of stories about experienced practitioners having all kinds of strange experiences which you simply won't be equipped to deal with yet. (EDIT: Same advice goes to anyone who's interested in past life regression hypnosis -- deal with your current life first, without opening a new and unexpected can of worms.)

The need to explore that discipline suggests you are trying to escape from the problem or transmute yourself into another state of being to escape your feelings. You need to teach yourself that you can overcome any problems as you are now, without having to be afraid of your thoughts and feelings.

My honest advice is to look on Youtube for relaxation and positivity music and videos, and to work on building up your confidence and self belief. Depression suggests a lack of self-belief, or a constant sense of frustration or failure. Those need to be challenged starting now. You may find it harder to meditate with upsetting or negative thoughts rumbling round like an unbroken storm in your brain. And resolving those thoughts may have the same calming, reassuring effect as meditating would anyway.

Are you in any kind of therapy?

Dysthymia is still known as this, not persistent depressive disorder. It is in a sub category of Mood Disorders, called Persistent Mood (Affective) Disorders. There are lots of depression disorders just like there are anxiety disorders. So, you won't have a comorbid diagnosis on the basis of depression & Dysthymia unless it truly warrants it, and "double depression" isn't a diagnostic term so not sure where that comes from unless it's the DSM as they have different names & classifications for many things. Are you using the DSM? We use the ICD in the UK.

Meditation is recommended to people suffering from anxiety or depression. MBCT, a blend of Cognitive Therapy and Mindfulness, has been studied to find it has the same success rates in recurrent depression as some antidepressants and consequently has NICE backing.

So, I disagree that meditation may be difficult on the basis that depression needs to be dealt with first. TD, I don't know, but certainly Mindfulness is aimed at helping you to see your negative thoughts in a different way. I agree in the TD issue of deep experience. Some experienced meditators use substances to achieve altered states. If the person had issues with more complex mental health problems that could make them view these experiences as something more than meditation then it could be a problem and one to get advice from their psychiatrist/psychologist first.

[NoPoet]

Dysthymia is still known as this, not persistent depressive disorder.
Persistent depressive disorder is the new, and very self-descriptive, name for dysthymia:

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/persistent-depressive-disorder/home/ovc-20166590

https://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000918.htm

http://www.mentalhealth.com/home/dx/dysthymic.html


So, you won't have a comorbid diagnosis on the basis of depression & Dysthymia unless it truly warrants it
I didn't say this had to be the case, I said it can be the case.


"double depression" isn't a diagnostic term so not sure where that comes from
That's what people working in the mental health industry call it, or called it. I was under the impression it was a nickname that saw common use.

EDIT:

http://www.webmd.com/depression/double-depression

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysthymia#Double_depression


So, I disagree that meditation may be difficult on the basis that depression needs to be dealt with first.
I was referring to the lack of concentration some people experience with depression, in particular intrusive negative thoughts. I am not sure how someone could enter a state of meditation while they were under the "stormclouds" of negative intrusive thoughts.

I also didn't want to state this to avoid upsetting people, but now I feel I have to: one major reason I advise someone in the OP's situation to avoid this type of meditation is, highly experienced practitioners have reported all sorts of mental health problems, which they describe as "the dark night of the soul". This is the last thing anyone with anxiety or depression needs.

"Dark night" is the term used by some meditation practitioners to describe a negative or disturbing experience while meditating. Do a quick Google search, everything I posted above has come from years of my own research but I backed everything up with ten seconds worth of search engine use.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Like I said, we use the WHO ICD in the UK not the US DSM. Persistent depressive disorder doesn't exist in the ICD. Mayo Clinic is US.

Mindfulness is used to treat people for just this reason so if it was dangerous why are the NHS behind it? I can understand it in TD bit all Mindfulness is teaching you is to be more present, it's not about searching for anything in yourself.

You have to be careful with not only names of disorders but their diagnostic criteria too since there are differences between the two major diagnostic manuals. That Wiki page refers to the DSM-V, which is not used for diagnosis in the UK. You will find the NHS stating that should you search for it.

I get where double depression comes from now. I wonder if it is like how HA is used since that is a term that didn't exist in either manual, a common term that is easier to understand at a glance and less complex for a patient. Basically, it just means comorbid.

I suggest you also look at NICE guidance on MBCT - proven to be effective in recurrent depression and includes meditation. As someone with OCD I can attest to it's usefulness and how you can use it to deal with thoughts - it got rid of my intrusive thoughts. Like I said, some forms of meditation may be more of a problem but you can't make a generalisation here evidence proves otherwise regardless of what some sources may believe.

[NoPoet]

My apologies, the search I performed was generic and not UK specific, but what's happening in America usually happens in Britain within a few years. Edit: I know that's a generalisation, couldn't help myself anyway!

Comparing mindfulness with transcendental meditation is kind of like comparing butterflies and hurricanes. I can see how there may be some relation in some sense, but transcendental meditation, as I've said, is a discipline which is aimed more towards the out of body side of things, including the search for enlightenment, whereas mindfulness is more about awareness of thoughts and feelings on a day to day basis. As far as I know, there are no potential side effects of mindfulness.