Awkward one/obsessive crushes

[beatroon]

Bit of an embarrassing one this, hope you'll bear with the somewhat 'agony aunt' tone!

I'm married to a really lovely person, but over the last year have found myself being increasingly attracted to/obsessed by another lovely person, who's a friend. It's got to the point of being an obsession (although obviously a secret one, I would never want to hurt my partner) and I am feeling very blue, both because guilty about it and very anxious about why I'm feeling this way, it getting in the way of feelings for partner etc.

I'm wondering if this could be a manifestation of anxiety? I'm no stranger to obsessive worries so I feel like this could be the same part of my brain acting up.

Does anyone else experience anything similar with anxiety, in terms of their 'themes' sometimes being about people?

[MyNameIsTerry]

It's actually a known subtype of OCD known as ROCD - Relationship OCD. So, if you have OCD then subtypes can always pop up as new but also people without OCD can experience obsessions or compulsions or both anyway - OCD is diagnosed where it is affecting their lives. So, in someone with an anxiety disorder, it's perfectly logical that traits that are seen as OCD can become something bigger, but that doesn't mean they develop into OCD itself.

Does that make sense?

To give you some comfort that there are many people with OCD who go through this, here is OCD UK's description:

http://ocduk.org/types-ocd

Intrusive Thoughts - Intrusive thoughts, in the spectrum of OCD, are where a person generally suffers with obsessional thoughts that are repetitive, disturbing and often horrific and repugnant in nature. For example, thoughts of causing violent or sexual harm to loved ones.

Because the intrusive thoughts are repetitive and not voluntarily produced, they cause the sufferer extreme distress - the very idea that they are capable of having such thoughts in the first place can be horrifying. However, what we do know is that people with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder are the least likely people to actually act on the thoughts, partly because they find them so repugnant and go to great lengths to avoid them and prevent them happening.

Intrusive thoughts can cover absolutely any subject, but the more common areas of OCD related concerns covers the following sub- categories:
• Relationships.
• Sexual Thoughts - Fear of:
• Magical Thinking - believing that:
• Religious - believing that:
• Violent Thoughts - fear of:

Relationship Intrusive Thoughts - Obsessive doubts over the suitability of a relationship, one’s partner or one's own sexuality are the main focus for the obsessional thoughts. Obsessional thoughts include:
• Constantly analysing the depth of feelings for one's partner, placing the partner and the relationship under a microscope and finding fault.
• Constantly needing to seek reassurance and approval from one's partner.
• Doubts that one's partner is being faithful.
• Doubts that one may cheat on their partner.
• Questioning one’s own sexuality, and having feelings, thoughts and impulses about being attracted to members of the same sex.

The constant analysing and questioning of the relationship and partner often places immense strain on the relationship and the result is a person with OCD will often end the relationship to rid themselves of the doubt and anxiety, which is usually often repeated with any subsequent relationship.

There are members on her with ROCD. Have you done a search of threads for this term? PinguAnxious had a long running thread on the Depression board talking about hers but there are many on the OCD board, with some being current members too.

That's the OCD side anyway.

If your partner didn't treat in a way that you liked and that you were moving away from your partner, there could always just be the fact it is a crush or relationship forming in the future but since you talk about how you love your partner and don't want to hurt them and also recognise the obsessive patterns, I would think anxiety is likely culprit so the OCD element may apply or at least it may be a trait that has escalated if not.

Should I sign this, "Deidre"? :winks:

[beatroon]

Dear Terry ("Deirdre" should I say :)

Thanks so much for this advice. This is so helpful. I don't have a diagnosis of OCD but have an obsessive thought component to my anxiety (as I guess many people do!) and I do obsess about relationship themes.

This crush has come up after a period of prolonged stress in our relationship, so I think it's a both a mixture of relationship struggles and my own obsessive nature. What's clear to me is that I don't want to feel the way I do - not because I find it repulsive or worrying in the way that someone with OCD might feel about believing they are a paedophile etc - but because I feel it's disloyal and dishonest towards my partner (although that said, I do feel a strong component of shame and guilt...) and I want things to work in my marriage. It's worth fighting for :)

So, it's a tricky one as to how much the anxiety is to blame for the initial situation, but it's certainly making it harder to get past it because of the repetitive nature of obsessive thoughts. Trying to get through your worries can be like wading through treacle sometimes!

One interesting thing, brain chemistry wise, is that I suppose indulging in thoughts about a crush gives you a little hit of dopamine - so you feel better, or a bit high even, when thinking about them, and that improves your day. Obviously it's not a very healthy way to get that hit! I would be really interested to hear any ideas on how one might replicate that happy feeling, without using an obsession to fuel it.

Any other strategies you might have up your sleeve would also be helpful to hear. I do yoga, and practice mindfulness, but perhaps have been a bit slack in these departments recently!

Many thanks for all your helpful advice.

[MyNameIsTerry]

:D

So, it could be a bit of "the grass is greener" and the anxiety skewing it towards something bigger?

It's pretty normal to have confusing feelings in relationships anyway when you have friends of the opposite sex who you feel you click with and there are difficulties in the relationship. The most important thing though is that you don't want these feelings and at a minimum I would say it could be normal thinking about other people morphed into a larger issue because you are worrying what it means. This worry about meaning and whether this is a "new you" coming is seen constantly in OCD, more in the Pure O/intrusive thoughts end where ROCD exists.

I'm not suggesting you have OCD but what you describe is common on here in people with ROCD so it could just be a trait as you mention you have an obsessive element to you anxiety. So, if you look at people with ROCD on here you will see how their minds work and see that some of what you are saying is the same.


What's clear to me is that I don't want to feel the way I do - not because I find it repulsive or worrying in the way that someone with OCD might feel about believing they are a paedophile etc - but because I feel it's disloyal and dishonest towards my partner (although that said, I do feel a strong component of shame and guilt...) and I want things to work in my marriage. It's worth fighting for

And what you have just said there is exactly what ROCD sufferers all say. It's not repulsive because this form of OCD doesn't include that since relationships with members of the opposite sex are normal to hence do not class with your deeper beliefs & schemas. The bit that does clash with them is the thought of being a cheat or a bad person...and then comes the shame & guilt. Some also feel the need to seek reassurance from their partner or have the need to confess over the smallest things (often just their thoughts).

So, whilst not perhaps OCD, it is an OCD theme and as such can be reconciled as anxiety.

Tackling this can mean using the same strategies as you would use for intrusive thoughts. So, the Mindfulness is a great tool for it. I can tell you from my own experience, and a few others on here who meditate, that if you stop you can see a decline in your mental health. Just like how we don't learn CBT to purely recover, we use it to self monitor to prevent falling back into the traps again. Mindfulness is the same. Mindfulness makes changes to the brain, positive changes, but if you stop practicing it you don't keep those areas experiencing this and all the negativity of an anxiety disorder will simply undo those changes and reinforce the negative areas of the brain. They have seen that on fMRI tests.

You could also use the CBT route which would mean challenging the thoughts with evidence of why you think it is true and then counter evidencing it and coming up with a final thought, a positive outcome. For this you use a Thought Record. I use a good site for this called psychology tools. They have a number of templates in the download section.

For Dopamine exercise springs to mind. Dopamine is about the reward centre of the brain so I would imagine engaging in rewarding activities that you enjoy would help here although this is a guess. Doing things you enjoy will only help with the anxiety anyway.

So, how does Dopamine work with feelings about your partner? Surely it works outside of a crush? Wouldn't feelings of attraction to your partner also do this? If so, then doesn't that mean injecting something into the relationship to bring that back from the normality that we settle into? Spice it up a bit?

(God now I am sounding like Deidre! It will be pictures next :ohmy:)

[beatroon]

Pictures, eh? Don't hold back on my account! :D

Thanks again, Terry, for giving your time to help me out with this - it's so appreciated. One of the frustrating things about any anxiety disorder/obsessive thoughts problem is that although you can sort of see the woods for the trees (or at least glimpse the woods intermittently), it really helps clarify things to have another point of view.

I think you have it exactly right - fairly predictable feelings of 'look at this incredible new person who validates me when my spouse is being a pain', which any normally-wired person might get, + my obsessive bent taking that thought and running with it. I think it's about 50% 'OK, in another life, this person would be exactly right for me' and 50% not being able to get in control of the feelings, letting them interfere with everyday life. Which, philosophically speaking, is what we call an infatuation, I suppose. But I don't want it to wreck my normal life, and I completely agree that ROCD or Pure O components to my anxiety aren't letting me move on from what is essentially now an obsession.

(To clarify, I have never and would never actually *behave* in an obsessive stalky way towards this person - just thoughts!)

Funnily enough I have just been for a run and it has a very settling effect. I need to get back into the mindfulness - as you say, mental health is something you practise every day, rather than expect to fall into your lap. It's very helpful what you say about the fMRI studies - I do like a bit of science to back up my feelings :)

In terms of dopamine within the relationship, yes, we are doing all the 'date night' and spending time together stuff and that had been very successful until this 'other person' happened to cross my path again last week, which led to a bit of a setback. So, time to resume all of that again.

I think it's a funny one, because of *course* we're wired to find new people attractive, and nothing quite recreates that high of first meeting a new potential person. It's about not expecting that to happen inside a long-term relationship, and focusing on that relationship in spite of that (AKA becoming a grown-up!). As someone (Claire Weekes?) may have said, sometimes we just need to get used to the fact that once we are less anxious we may feel a little less - not the highs of being reassured, not the lows of being low.

Sorry for the essay - it helps me to get my thoughts down on paper. Thanks again for the support and information, it's so appreciated! (Deirdre)