View Full Version : How do I get off my current dose safely?
Been on 5mg a day for 4 months. There have been a few days throughout that time which I took 10mg.
I have cut myself down to half the 5mg a day. So I'm now on 2.5mg.
The 5mg was working and then I needed more and I don't want to up the dose and become dependent on that. I'm already at least psychologically dependent and since taking less I feel increased anxiety but I don't know if that's withdrawals or what anxiety the Diaz was masking, just being unmasked again. I suspect it's a bit of worsened anxiety. I have shakiness and irritability that I never had before and my old symptoms have come back- face numbness, head pressure, etc.
So for the past 3 days I have powered through on 2.5mg (taken in the morning - I can sleep fine at night and my anxiety is at its worst when I just woke up) and I want to get off them completely because they don't work at this low dose anymore and I don't want to rely on them. When I did take 10mg I would get too tired and couldn't drive and I don't want to live like that.
I am scared of things like seizure. I got off 4 weeks of Xanax use using diazepam. The idea was to just take the diazepam to get off Xanax without increased anxiety. That worked because I never used Xanax again. But then I took diazepam for way longer than I intended to because I couldn't leave the house without it plus I was scared of seizure.
how do I safely drop 2.5mg?
Thanks!
Shazamataz
09-02-16, 06:32
Hey Dita,
I'm in a similar situation with a similar timeframe. I ended up on daily diazepam for withdrawals and start-ups of various SSRIs and the like and have now been on it nearly 4 months and too scared to completely stop as cannot cope with doing withdrawal when I still have such bad anxiety.
My only suggestion would be to ask your doctor for 2mg tablets instead of 5 mg as they split easily and you can reduce more easily while keeping track of your dose.
I have the 2mgs and they can be split into halves and even quarters without too much trouble.
Thanks shazamataz :) What dose are you on (are you cutting and quartering?) and how are you feeling? I've heard the slower the weaning off process the less problems with withdrawals. That said I don't want to be on something like 0.5 for another 6 months either! Surely there's a safe jump off? What's your plan?
I've just heard diazapam withdrawal can cause "sudden unexplained death" sorry i don't mean to scare you because I've just withdrawn from them (2mg) I'd like to know if there's any truth to this?
May be on high enough doses.
Did you stop taking 2mg cold turkey? How long were you on it? I would cut down more slowly than that. 2mg still seems like a significant amount.
Shazamataz
09-02-16, 19:35
Thanks shazamataz :) What dose are you on (are you cutting and quartering?) and how are you feeling? I've heard the slower the weaning off process the less problems with withdrawals. That said I don't want to be on something like 0.5 for another 6 months either! Surely there's a safe jump off? What's your plan?
Hi Dita, I was on a max of 8 a day late last year (but not always the same amount) and have been on 4 mg a day for a couple of months. I haven't reduced because I've had a few goes at SSRIs (Sertraline, citalopram, then mirtazipine) and didn't want to reduce during the side effects.
Now, since my anxiety is still bad and I'm quite ill as well, I'm reluctant to make any more changes. The psychiatrist I saw last week insisted I should just take as much as I need in the mean time as we are working on getting my sleep sorted and, until then, my anxiety isn't going to settle anyway.
So some days I take a wee bit more (maybe 6), though to be hones it doesn;t have much of an effect. 2mg does nothing but 4 helps, so I sometimes take 4 when I have to go out and then another 2 later. No idea what I'm doing really. Very disappointing nothing has worked for me and now my trusty diaz doesn't really help either.
There' the Ashton Manual people here have referred me to before which details safe withdrawals from benzos. I'd say on such a low dose it shouldn't be too difficult. Well I hope not!
Hi Shaz, thanks for your feedback. You're right that 2mg doesn't help. I still feel anxious and usually I have to take 5mg to feel slightly better. Doesn't help either that I have anxiety already and can't tell if it's withdrawals anyway. When I start feeling anxious I just want to take more Valium but I know if I'm trying to get off it, it's a setback. Christmas Day I took about 15mg to get through family lunch! Haven't dosed that much since.
I'm panicking because I am halving the 5mg but they're starting to crumble. I've got 49 5mg pills. I wish I had asked for 2mg now. I hate going to the doctor because he's just going to keep pushing medication and not give me a clear plan to drop this shit. I don't want another medication to replace Valium like an antidepressant which is what he's pushing. I just want to handle my anxiety without drugs. I know it's not everyone's ideal but it's mine.
Now the crumbling pills have got me more anxious. Do pill cutters prevent it?
Mine was a 28 day course but didn't finish it, I took one every other night so i took 20/23 tablets and the last 3 I took half then stopped. 2mg is not significant! But now I'm panicking about this link with sudden death!?
Sorry, I thought it was because I've read stories of people suffering from cutting back to just 1mg!
Are you feeling any worse anxiety having stopped taking them? I highly doubt you're at risk of dying at that dosage. Personally I would've cut down from 2mg but everyone's different. 28 days is not that long. I don't know where you read about sudden death. In rare cases one can die from rapidly stopping any benzos at high doses after long term use hence the tapering method.
So would you say I've stopped them rapidly ?
---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:14 ----------
If you go on google and put in "diazepam sudden death" there's a few articles there that I've read,can you check them out and let me know what you think because it's worrying me
I'm quite sure you can stop worrying. The article I found says it can cause sudden death in combination with other medications. The only other cause I know of is alcohol and diazepam can kill you. But it's not a withdrawal side effect from what I'm reading unless it's a rapid cold turkey from high dose. I read one article that said diazepam can cause explained death because people become suicodal in withdrawal and commit suicide. I think you're fine. How is your anxiety? How long have you been off diazepam? You'd be having withdrawals by now if they were going to be a problem.
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm If you look at the table there, it's recommended to stay at 2mg for 1-2 weeks before dropping to 1mg and stopping. But you weren't on them long enough. That's a taper schedule from someone who is dropping down from a high dose. 2mg-1mg going by that table isn't significant.
Anxiety at the the minute is quite mild and i took half on Saturday night,but I've been taking them every other night so I missed yesterday and im thinking if I should take another half now and then stop or just stop now. I wish I didn't start them now tbh !! I'm going bed soon and I won't be able to relax with this on my mind.
I know the feeling. Your anxiety is probably mostly worrying about this and yes I wish I never had touched it either. My doctor never told me that his magic pill was actually called Xanax! I worried so much about Xanax seizure that I took Valium because Valium prevents seizures and is still a benzo so I would be covered. If you're really anxious and can't sleep, I'd take the half. There's no harm in it. But if you can't overcome the anxiety and put things into perspective - you will not die - you can leave it alone for good. I can't wait til I can say that.
MyNameIsTerry
10-02-16, 10:39
Mine was a 28 day course but didn't finish it, I took one every other night so i took 20/23 tablets and the last 3 I took half then stopped. 2mg is not significant! But now I'm panicking about this link with sudden death!?
Do you mean you only took a 28 day course? So, you didn't use it to transfer off other short action Benzo's?
If you only had 28 days of them, you may not have even been tolerant anyway so there is no worries over the dangerous withdrawal effects, that's for people tolerant who need a tapered withdrawal plan as sudden withdrawal can bring seizures.
My doctor won't give me 2mg tablets so I can cut it down to 1mg. So looks like I'm gonna be quartering my 5mg pills. He won't even give me a plan to get off them. I'm so upset. He thinks there isn't a big difference between 2mg and 1mg and can stop taking 2.5mg! I still want to cut lower than that, which is why I wanted the 2mg pill. I could halve them then. Is anyone knowledgeable about this?
Oh no I am now more anxious re the sudden death talked about here !! I have been on diazepam for 15 years & take 4mg daily & occasionally when v anxious up to 10 mg. Doctors want us all off these now but it is a frightening thought that it could kill you. I have HA & PTSD & GA. I'm now 60 & it doesn't get easier. Had CBT for years. I wish I hadn't read this today as its escalated my anxiety. I won't google it !
Shazamataz
11-02-16, 20:11
Hi Shaz, thanks for your feedback. You're right that 2mg doesn't help. I still feel anxious and usually I have to take 5mg to feel slightly better. Doesn't help either that I have anxiety already and can't tell if it's withdrawals anyway. When I start feeling anxious I just want to take more Valium but I know if I'm trying to get off it, it's a setback. Christmas Day I took about 15mg to get through family lunch! Haven't dosed that much since.
I'm panicking because I am halving the 5mg but they're starting to crumble. I've got 49 5mg pills. I wish I had asked for 2mg now. I hate going to the doctor because he's just going to keep pushing medication and not give me a clear plan to drop this shit. I don't want another medication to replace Valium like an antidepressant which is what he's pushing. I just want to handle my anxiety without drugs. I know it's not everyone's ideal but it's mine.
Now the crumbling pills have got me more anxious. Do pill cutters prevent it?
I've found pill cutters no good at all. Again if you are weaning off try and get some smaller 2mg tablets as they are easy to break into quarters.
---------- Post added at 09:11 ---------- Previous post was at 09:08 ----------
My doctor won't give me 2mg tablets so I can cut it down to 1mg. So looks like I'm gonna be quartering my 5mg pills. He won't even give me a plan to get off them. I'm so upset. He thinks there isn't a big difference between 2mg and 1mg and can stop taking 2.5mg! I still want to cut lower than that, which is why I wanted the 2mg pill. I could halve them then. Is anyone knowledgeable about this?
Your doctor sounds like a bit of an idiot! What harm in giving you the 2mg pills?
MyNameIsTerry
12-02-16, 05:42
Oh no I am now more anxious re the sudden death talked about here !! I have been on diazepam for 15 years & take 4mg daily & occasionally when v anxious up to 10 mg. Doctors want us all off these now but it is a frightening thought that it could kill you. I have HA & PTSD & GA. I'm now 60 & it doesn't get easier. Had CBT for years. I wish I hadn't read this today as its escalated my anxiety. I won't google it !
Please don't worry about this, it is associated with rapid withdrawal of Benzo's NOT a taper that you should always follow. Rapid withdrawal can cause catatonia or convulsions which can lead to death but your GP knows this and will gradually withdraw you if they need to. Also bare in mind that the worst withdrawals come from the short lasting Benzo's, not long lasting ones like Diazepam.
Also, doctors have been told for over a decade to get people off these, it's really not new, so unless they have suggested it to you, perhaps cross that bridge when you come to it?
My mum knew someone who was taking 15mg at night just to sleep after being on them so many years like you and she came off them gradually. It is possible.
---------- Post added at 05:37 ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 ----------
My doctor won't give me 2mg tablets so I can cut it down to 1mg. So looks like I'm gonna be quartering my 5mg pills. He won't even give me a plan to get off them. I'm so upset. He thinks there isn't a big difference between 2mg and 1mg and can stop taking 2.5mg! I still want to cut lower than that, which is why I wanted the 2mg pill. I could halve them then. Is anyone knowledgeable about this?
What do you need to know, Dita? I did some looking into this for a friend on here a couple of months ago and turned up a fair bit of useful information.
Are you getting any wastage from crushing? How do you cut them?
---------- Post added at 05:42 ---------- Previous post was at 05:37 ----------
I'm quite sure you can stop worrying. The article I found says it can cause sudden death in combination with other medications. The only other cause I know of is alcohol and diazepam can kill you. But it's not a withdrawal side effect from what I'm reading unless it's a rapid cold turkey from high dose. I read one article that said diazepam can cause explained death because people become suicodal in withdrawal and commit suicide. I think you're fine. How is your anxiety? How long have you been off diazepam? You'd be having withdrawals by now if they were going to be a problem.
http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm If you look at the table there, it's recommended to stay at 2mg for 1-2 weeks before dropping to 1mg and stopping. But you weren't on them long enough. That's a taper schedule from someone who is dropping down from a high dose. 2mg-1mg going by that table isn't significant.
Suicide is ONLY listed under rapid withdrawal.
Thanks Terry. My new v young doctor has suggested it as he is concerned about bad practice. However I am certainly not ready to do it yet with severe anxiety & depression ongoing. I think my anxiety causes depression every so often. As like so many others my husband doesn't get it & thinks I should snap out of it which unfortunately makes it worse as he gets extremely irritable & cross with me - I then feel guilty & try my hardest to pretend which takes more out of me. Phew its hard work !!
What do you need to know, Dita? I did some looking into this for a friend on here a couple of months ago and turned up a fair bit of useful information.
Are you getting any wastage from crushing? How do you cut them?
Hi Terry (Terry to my rescue again :) )
I am using a pill cutter device and so far so good cutting the 5mg to 2.5. I wanted the 2mg so I could halve to 1mg. My doctors apparent apathy about the dose ("it's nothing- 2.5mg won't even be doing anything and is not much different to 2mg so there's no need) has stressed me out and I feel alone in this and unsupervised. I'm seeing a psychologist next week but I don't know how much advice they can give about medication.
I basically don't want to depend on diazepam anymore and don't know what my plan should be. It's hard to cut a 5mg tablet to 1mg. I assume 0.5mg is the safest dose to come off at. There's a lot of information out there and I am getting more anxious trying to work it all out. I am scared of seizures.
---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:14 ----------
Thanks Terry. My new v young doctor has suggested it as he is concerned about bad practice. However I am certainly not ready to do it yet with severe anxiety & depression ongoing. I think my anxiety causes depression every so often. As like so many others my husband doesn't get it & thinks I should snap out of it which unfortunately makes it worse as he gets extremely irritable & cross with me - I then feel guilty & try my hardest to pretend which takes more out of me. Phew its hard work !!
I know how you feel. Whenever I am around people who think I can just snap out of it, my anxiety is worse because it's like trying to hold back a tsunami with your hands! Anxiety is less likely to be intense or to even occur, if we are not bothered by it coming. The stress of having to pretend we're fine so we aren't demonised for our condition by people who are ignorant, is the last thing we need!
MyNameIsTerry
13-02-16, 07:28
Thanks Terry. My new v young doctor has suggested it as he is concerned about bad practice. However I am certainly not ready to do it yet with severe anxiety & depression ongoing. I think my anxiety causes depression every so often. As like so many others my husband doesn't get it & thinks I should snap out of it which unfortunately makes it worse as he gets extremely irritable & cross with me - I then feel guilty & try my hardest to pretend which takes more out of me. Phew its hard work !!
Yes, this does happen as you change GP's. The newer ones are more up to date and will want to prevent further Benzo dependency. It's right they are being careful but at the same time they need to respect your needs as it's the NHS that have put you in this position and they knew over a decade ago and still didn't address it so perhaps it's not so urgent as they may make out?
I don't think anyone, professionals included, knows what it truly feels like. How can you know what a broken ankle feels like unless you've had one? You couldn't say you've had a twisted ankle so it must just be a bit more painful than that. So, it's the same when someone who has never been through this thinks about their anxiety levels and tries to understand how we feel - they can't.
Your husband should be more understanding & supportive though! He would change his mind overnight if he experienced it, I know I did. I was quite critical of other managers I worked with going off with mental health issues. When it happened to me I realised it doesn't matter how much busier I was than them, we all have our own breaking point and once you reach it, the impact is the same. My opinion changed overnight and I felt quite guilty & ashamed of thinking badly about them for some time afterwards. I now knew that having been through this, threshold for stress can be much lower and being judgemental was a bad thing to be.
---------- Post added at 07:28 ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 ----------
Hi Terry (Terry to my rescue again :) )
I am using a pill cutter device and so far so good cutting the 5mg to 2.5. I wanted the 2mg so I could halve to 1mg. My doctors apparent apathy about the dose ("it's nothing- 2.5mg won't even be doing anything and is not much different to 2mg so there's no need) has stressed me out and I feel alone in this and unsupervised. I'm seeing a psychologist next week but I don't know how much advice they can give about medication.
I basically don't want to depend on diazepam anymore and don't know what my plan should be. It's hard to cut a 5mg tablet to 1mg. I assume 0.5mg is the safest dose to come off at. There's a lot of information out there and I am getting more anxious trying to work it all out. I am scared of seizures!
:yesyes:
That's GP's for you. He hasn't stopped to think that whilst it may not be doing much, if you've become dependent your body will be expecting it. So, even if it's not working, and you would easily know if it wasn't, removing it completely isn't the same thing as it can bring more withdrawal.
Whilst a psychologist wouldn't deal with meds, I bet they know a fair bit about the impacts of them. I'm sure they will with such a common med like Diazepam. I think they will also understand the impact of withdrawal too because they will need to understand how to spot rebound.
The Ashton Manual is supposed to be about the best reference for withdrawing from Benzo's. Other members on here have used it and recommend it so perhaps have a read of that? Ashton's formula for withdrawal is medically accepted so it must be good.
With the cutting, if you are getting any wastage, it may pose a problem as it could cause your dose to become varied. However, that doesn't mean all the powder lost is actually the active drug as the meds often contain binders & fillers.
As long as your med is scored, it's definitely safe to cut it. Many meds without lines are also safe too. Using a very sharp think blade will achieve good results too and some studies have shown that works better than a pill cutter but obviously some skill is needed.
If you are unsure about quartering and your cutter won't do it so you have to cut the halves to quarters by hand, there is a safety check you could make. You could weigh the pieces. A jewellery scale would be good for this. I have one that goes from .01-200g. I used it to weight supplements as I make mine own capsules up now. It only cost me a could of pounds off Ebay.
With your GP, if the Ashton manual supports what you want to do, just show him that. He will struggle to deflect that.
Hi Terry you are such a good support for all of us on here ! I don't know what rebound is & if I am told will it set off my anxiety more ?
MyNameIsTerry
13-02-16, 10:42
Hi Autumn,
Thanks I really appreciate that. Glad if I can help.
Rebound is just where when you finally come off Benzos your anxiety seems to come back worse than how it was when you started them. It's nothing more sinister than that, just more unpleasant than your initial anxiety levels.
The safer you taper off, I bet that the chances of that are greatly reduced. The people on here who have come off them will know more and to be honest I can't say I've noticed the ones I know of even mentioning it so I don't think you should worry about it.
I only mentioned it to Dita because normally a psychiatrist deals with these meds, not a psychologist, but in giving people therapies they must know to look out for certain clues. That's only like how any therapist has a basic knowledge of how starting an antidepressant can make there client feel worse for a while because they need to know it may cause momentum in the therapy to stop. So, it was only to give an example of overlapping experience between job roles.
I can't say I've even seen any threads about rebound anxiety raised since I've been on here so it can't be a common thing surely.
So, don't worry and hopefully you will have a relaxing weekend.
Thanks Terry - certainly wouldn't want to feel worse than how i started !!!! Have a good weekend yourself.:)
Hey Terry, Thanks heaps :)
2.5mg is doing little. I'm having panic attacks again whenever I feel some innocuous pain. I have a terrible tension headache and I'm tempted to take the other half but I want off this stuff even more so I don't want to wreck my progress. So far I consider every day I get by on half, a success.
I only take the 2.5 so as not to experience any withdrawal anxiety or abruptly come off it. I don't know how long to keep taking 2.5. The Aston manual says drop to 2 then 1 which would be OK if Dr monkeybrains would give me the 2mg so I could halve them to 1mg.
I feel ok on 2.5mg. I mean, it's not easy, because psychologically I know that pill will make me feel less anxious in 10 minutes but I'm determined to taper. I'm trying to rationalise I have tension Headache because I have the worst posture in the world and I can't reach for the diazepam every time I feel it.
Of course I have no idea how much 2.5mg is helping until I start taking less. My mind is my worst enemy right now because I want off this stuff quickly but not so quickly I have a seizure or something. is 5mg daily a big dose? My dr prescribed 10mg (2 x 5mg) but I only took one. Then I cut myself to half which is where I'm at.
I don't know what to do next. Stick with the Aston manual and beg for the 2mg. The Aston manual says 1mg is an OK dose to come off at. I would've thought it'd be something like 0.5 but I'm assuming that's NOTHING?
Hi Dita
My GP gave me 2mg diazepam to "take the edge off the start-up side effects of Sertraline". The start-up effects were horrific, and to be honest even the 2 mg Diazepam didn't begin to touch them ! I was concerned about becoming dependant on the Diaz. and used them frugally, but I didn't persist with the Sertraline or the Mirtazapine which was then given because it too didn't work for me. I was having the most awful panic attacks - really bad, ad couldn't function, but the GP then gave me propanalol which have really helped control the panic, and since starting the Propanalol I have used only a few Diazepam. Perhaps this is something you could discuss with your GP. If he wants you off the Diazepam, then a beta blocker may help you taper off slowly and yet still control the attacks.
I started Amitriptyline last Monday - 20 mg daily, and to be honest, other than a dry mouth I have not noticed any side effects. GP hopes they will be sufficiently sedating to help me get some decent sleep - over the last 6 months my sleep has been seriously disrupted.
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