Insomnia is driving me mad!

[Shazamataz]

Hey guys,

Not sure which section to put this is so will try here as insomnia is a symptom of anxiety yes?

I popped off the forum for a bit as was doing mildly better with the anxiety. Still not great but better. And after having my sleep completely ruined (and anxiety made 10 x worse) by trying sertraline, citalopram and then mirtazipine, was getting a relatively decent sleep which has now turned to custard in the past week or so and with it anxiety back full force.

I have Temazepam for sleep (for the past month or so. seemed to help but not any more) and was weaning off diazepam, down to 2mg a day, now back up a bit but not helping anyway. Also 2.5 mg Olanzipine in the evenings.

So I'm not sure what I'm asking here but really beside myself. I went off work in October from the anxiety. Have ended up sick and had bad, bad laryngitis for the past month plus another infection. I have Crohn's (in remission) which has been controlled by immune suppressant drugs which we reduced recently to see if it would help me deal with repeated infections.

With this latest virus (we now think it's a virus) I have been exhausted and struggling and last week decided to resign from my job as still not able to go back.

I expect this all has lead to anxiety going out of control over the past week or so and the lack of sleep is driving me mad. And I'm having really bad anxiety about the sleep.

So, anyone else with bad insomnia with any tips on how else to deal with it? I keep trying to tell myself at 4 am (when I always wake) that if I'm in bed I'm still getting rest, but my mind won;t believe me and I worry worry worry about how I'm going to cope with the day at all. Today has been rough and I've tried to nap but can't. I know being active helps with sleep but I feel too awful to do anything :(

Help?

[rsanchez]

I'm dealing with bad insomnia also. Last night I just could not get to sleep until around 6am, and then I woke up at 9am to go to work. As expected, I'm very tired and my production is taking a hit, but I'm trying to keep it at that. What I mean is, any unpleasant symptoms from the insomnia I know won't hurt me, it's just the anxiety.

I think the thing with you though is you've had multiple other health issues to deal with. It's understandable that you don't have much energy to be active during the day, but then that just makes you wonder why you can't sleep at night. Some things I tried last night to finally sleep were: take magnesium tablets, read a book that isn't too exciting, and listen to a progressive muscle relaxation tape and a guided imagery tape I found on YouTube. Some other things I want to try are chamomile tea and a massage stick to relieve muscle tension (which I think is one of the main reasons I just couldn't fall asleep, tension in my neck). If the temazepam isn't working that well, I think it would be worth it to try other not necessarily pharmaceutical options.

[Fishmanpa]

It's a catch 22 when it comes to insomnia. I dealt with it during and after my illnesses and the more I thought about it, the more difficult it became. I can only imagine how many more times worse it may be with anxiety!

I was prescribed meds and it helped but meds can be a slippery slope too as you can become dependent on them (psychologically and physically) to sleep. They gave me amitriptyline (that worked great) and I also tried Ambien but that stuff is scary! I had one of those sleep walking things happen and I didn't remember a thing and ended up in the ER! Nowadays, if I'm a bit wound up from a stressful day or week and need a good nights sleep, I take a benadryl. My docs suggested it and it serves two purposes, It knocks me out and clears my sinuses so I breath better and sleep easier ;)

Also, there are certain things to do prior to bed that can help. Simple things like a chamomile tea or a hot shower/bath can help you relax. But for me? A documentary with a somewhat monotone narration will put me out fast, especially a BBC one (no offense to the Brits) :)

Positive thoughts

[Shazamataz]

It's a catch 22 when it comes to insomnia. I dealt with it during and after my illnesses and the more I thought about it, the more difficult it became. I can only imagine how many more times worse it may be with anxiety!

I was prescribed meds and it helped but meds can be a slippery slope too as you can become dependent on them (psychologically and physically) to sleep. They gave me amitriptyline (that worked great) and I also tried Ambien but that stuff is scary! I had one of those sleep walking things happen and I didn't remember a thing and ended up in the ER! Nowadays, if I'm a bit wound up from a stressful day or week and need a good nights sleep, I take a benadryl. My docs suggested it and it serves two purposes, It knocks me out and clears my sinuses so I breath better and sleep easier ;)

Also, there are certain things to do prior to bed that can help. Simple things like a chamomile tea or a hot shower/bath can help you relax. But for me? A documentary with a somewhat monotone narration will put me out fast, especially a BBC one (no offense to the Brits) :)

Positive thoughts

It sure is a catch 22 and a difficult one. My issue isn't with getting to sleep it's staying there for more than about 4 -5 hours ane even then I've been up to pee at least twice during that time. Being awake and anxious at 4am is getting a bit tiresome.

Anyway, I've seen psychiatrist today who has diagnosed me with severe depression (all I've focused on is the anxiety) for which early waking is a key symptom. Trying new meds (reluctantly but will give it a go) as she is insistent the anxiety will not subside and the sleep won't normalise until the depression is dealt with.

Here's hoping that along with seeing a psychologist which I am now finally booked in for weekly for as long as it takes, by all accounts, I can start sorting this mes out!

[Fishmanpa]

Good for you on seeing the psych and digging in to treat what's ailing ya! As far as the 4-5 hours? Heck, that's my life dude! I wake a minimum of 1-2 times a night. I don't think I've gone more than 6 hours without waking to pee in 10 years! ~lol~

I dealt with some depression after my illnesses and sought therapy. Between that and some meds, I was able to to pull myself out and have done fine. It took some work but was well worth the effort.

Positive thoughts

[Mojo61]

I feel for you. What new meds has the psych prescribed?

[LiveAboveIt]

It sure is a catch 22 and a difficult one. My issue isn't with getting to sleep it's staying there for more than about 4 -5 hours ane even then I've been up to pee at least twice during that time. Being awake and anxious at 4am is getting a bit tiresome.

Anyway, I've seen psychiatrist today who has diagnosed me with severe depression (all I've focused on is the anxiety) for which early waking is a key symptom. Trying new meds (reluctantly but will give it a go) as she is insistent the anxiety will not subside and the sleep won't normalise until the depression is dealt with.

Here's hoping that along with seeing a psychologist which I am now finally booked in for weekly for as long as it takes, by all accounts, I can start sorting this mes out!

Im going through the exact same thing that you are. I only get 3-4 iffy hours of sleep a night, and when I wake up its near impossible to get back to sleep. I cant even sleep during the day to catch up on my sleep because of the anxiety.

I hate the way sleeping aids make me feel the next day.. It feels like the lack of sleep causes anxiety to worsen, but the anxiety also worsens the sleep issues, so how the hell are you supposed to alleviate either one?

Ive been on 20mg of Citalopram for about 3 weeks now, but it doesnt seem to be helping with this, which is worrying.

[Shazamataz]

I feel for you. What new meds has the psych prescribed?

The new psych had diagnosed me with deep depression which came as a but of a surprise as I've been focusing so much in anxiety! She insists early waking and insomnia are classic depression sypmtoms and if I don't treat the depression the anxiety will never shift.

I'm now on 30 mg Mirtazipine at night. Last night I actually got just over 6 hours so maybe we are onto something?!

[LiveAboveIt]

Thats funny, I always thought anxiety and depression went hand in hand, never thought to think about them separately. I too struggle with depression and was diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder as a teen, but just assumed the insomnia and early waking was anxiety related. How long have you been in Mirtazipine and when did it start helping?

[MyNameIsTerry]

Anxiety disorders and depressive disorders can be diagnosed under one or the other depending on whether the anxiety or the depression it's the most prevalent. If they are the same they can diagnose a mixed disorder or even two separate diagnoses. Depression is a group of disorders, like with anxiety, so patterns can differ.

I was waking early each day running up to my relapse. For me it was anxiety, GAD at the time, but I was having some low mood days and some of the negative thinking seen in depression.

Good luck with this, Shaz. It gets a very complicated and overlapping mess when things go long time, I reckon.

[LiveAboveIt]

I hear that, Terry. I'm currently going through a period of very severe GAD. My Psychiatrist thinks that the GAD I've had my entire life is now starting to peak for some reason, whether it be withdrawal from Effexor or just age/life stress. It seems much more complicated and difficult to manage compared to the normal anxiety I've always struggled with. I noticed a pattern as it emerged though, it went from my normal anxiety to sleep disturbance and inability to fall asleep/waking up early or after only 3 hours and unable to get back to sleep, and then just went downhill from there. Seems like my depression is at an all time low as well, had been struggling with very severe DP and suicidal thoughts/intent before I was put back on Citalopram. Slowly getting better though, just having a ton of trouble with racing/intrusive thoughts, especially in the morning.. And then pretty much spending my entire day with apprehensive anxiety about how the morning went/how or if I will sleep well tonight.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I can remember some of that when I went through it. Waking early, feeling the anxiety hit straight away and the thoughts about how was I going to cope with less sleep on top of how hard getting through the day was. It is surprising how much sleep affects us in these conditions.

I've learned to cope with these issue now but back then they were major for me too and that would be the end of that day. It would just be worrying about the physical symptoms I was feeling.

My anxiety has always been worse from waking and waning over the day. It's very frustrating because you feel like you beat it to then get sucked back down all the time. I know Cortisol levels are highest upon waking (they wake us up) and they decrease throughout the day too. Maybe that is natural in people without these disorders but in those of us pumping out too much of the stuff, it's too high? The odd thing is though, some people say they are worst later on in the day so it being Cortisol doesn't cover everyone, so I don't know where the connection is.

In my relapse I've had a lot more mental symptoms as opposed to physical ones which were most of the initial breakdown. I found going on Duloxetine made me very obsessive and I had OCD now as opposed to the minor traits before. This was a very upsetting time as I didn't know what I was going through. So, if you are having elements of OCD, it helps to learn about them.

Intrusive thoughts are experienced by all people, they just don't realise it. Theirs flash through in a second without any attachment, which is where most if not all of mine are at these days. But I can still feel them much more than I could before because now I know how to recognise what they are. I think this happens once you have been through them, it's reminds me of a line in an old Hammer Horror film where Christopher Lee says 'when you stare at the devil, he notices you'. (I think that was the film, I could eb wrong)

[LiveAboveIt]

I notice that my anxiety is more severely mental symptoms early in the day and then it transitions more to physical symptoms later in the day, which could partly be the Citalopram side effects.

Constantly feeling DP towards the middle/end of the day before everything settles down, but I'm constantly worried about having a DP/DR disorder or something, even though it only happens during times of high anxiety.

Seems like even when I think I've got it under control and I'm not thinking about the anxiety, it just randomly flashes fear at me or impending doom in my stomach, almost as if to draw my attention back to it.

This usually gets me down because it makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong or that something is wrong with me other than anxiety, so I have to constantly remind myself that it takes time and isn't going to go away overnight even despite understanding and practicing acceptance.

This has been one helluva journey, I tell ya. Did better this morning though, was able to accept that even though I only got 4 hours I was better able to not fear the intrusive thoughts, thanks to all of your help, Terry.

[rsanchez]

You got diagnosed with depression, but have you considered apnea? I have sleep apnea and that was my main complaint , waking up in the middle of the night to pee. I also recently read that doctors tend to confuse sleep apnea and depression, and you can treat sleep apnea without medicine. I have a cpap machine and I can sleep through the night most nights when I can actually fall asleep. My doctor wanted to diagnose me with depression too, but I insisted on getting tested for sleep apnea before resigning myself to taking antidepressants for who knows how long.

[NoraB]

So, anyone else with bad insomnia with any tips on how else to deal with it? I keep trying to tell myself at 4 am (when I always wake) that if I'm in bed I'm still getting rest, but my mind won;t believe me and I worry worry worry about how I'm going to cope with the day at all. Today has been rough and I've tried to nap but can't. I know being active helps with sleep but I feel too awful to do anything :(

Help?

I'm regularly waking up between 3.30 and 4.30. I sometimes lie there and see if I can drop off again but sometimes, like this morning, I can't so I get up and go and wash some dishes and stuff. I have a drink of Chamomile and half a banana to steady my blood sugar and then I sit and bore myself trawling through the pictures of people's dinner on Instagram. I think the trick is not to worry about it as that will definitely keep sleep at bay.
Being active throughout the day definitely helps and avoid naps if at all possible. Make sure you're knackered at bedtime and, oh, it's best not to use phones or electronic devices before going to sleep (cough cough as I was looking at mine this morning) it's something to do with the light that the devices emit having an effect on sleep. I plan to do an experiment where I have an electronic free day to see if that improves my sleep.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I'm regularly waking up between 3.30 and 4.30. I sometimes lie there and see if I can drop off again but sometimes, like this morning, I can't so I get up and go and wash some dishes and stuff. I have a drink of Chamomile and half a banana to steady my blood sugar and then I sit and bore myself trawling through the pictures of people's dinner on Instagram. I think the trick is not to worry about it as that will definitely keep sleep at bay.
Being active throughout the day definitely helps and avoid naps if at all possible. Make sure you're knackered at bedtime and, oh, it's best not to use phones or electronic devices before going to sleep (cough cough as I was looking at mine this morning) it's something to do with the light that the devices emit having an effect on sleep. I plan to do an experiment where I have an electronic free day to see if that improves my sleep.

There are apps for changing the light, I think. You can certainly get glasses to wear that change the light.

I remember reading about this and it's a specific form of light emitted from devices that enters the eye and stimulates the brain. So, change the light and it won't.

Funny about Instagram. People I used to work with uploaded garbage like that on Facebook all the time. It's all very sad!

Definitely don't stress over getting sleep, then you won't. It's a hard cycle to break though as it's natural to worry about it.