Work looming....help !

[Lan69]

I have to attend a formal meeting at work with my line manager and a person from employee relations. This is too discuss my return and what plans to put in place ( so my line manager said on phone, but I don't trust her).
As you can imagine this is affecting my anxiety and I can't stop thinking about it, thinking she might be getting me there on false pretences and then whacking me with a disciplinary !
My plan is to return in may, which will be a year since I have been absent.
My question is has anybody successfully returned back to work after this long an absence ? And does anyone have any advice or suggestion that I could ask for to help me to return?
All I can come up with is a phased return which is actually what my psychiatrist recommended

[Chocolateface]

I don't think they are allowed to invite you for a return to work then make it a disciplinary. Write down what you want to achieve from the meeting and take the notes in with you.

Good luck with it and hope it goes ok

[Lan69]

Thanks
All the email states is that it is a formal meeting and I can be accomopanied. My support worker rang my line manager and was told it is just a meeting to see when or if I will be returning, no mention of a disiplinary but I don't trust her as far as I can throw her as the last time I was invited to a meeting a lady from HR was there who I did not know would be present so I was taken by suprise

[Carolin]

Good luck Lan

I don't have any advice apart from take a witness with you, which I am sure you will do.
Do you have to wait long ? I can imagine your anxiety will be bad until it is over. :hugs:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Lan, definitely have a witness. Whilst they may not be able to speak, unless a union rep, they will automatically put off a dodgy boss who wants to chance their arm.

If this were a disciplinary hearing, you would need to be made aware of that before attendance. Employers are expected to have separate Disciplinary and Capability processes. Disciplinary processes are quick and outcomes forced onto people whereas Capability is a process of working together, often over a long period of time.

You have been off a while now but your planned return to work date is not far away and so that seems very reasonable. To be honest, this hearing is quite late really but with you being in hospital perhaps it was played safe on their part?

You can expect they will place a review date on you. However, that doesn't mean a date of return, it means a date to review whether you have improved and got back to work. If you are still off, you just have another hearing and go from there.

I went back to work after being off just over 12 months the first time. I had no hearings but had monthly meets with my line manager. The second time the HR people had been getting stricter with the managers so I did end up having one of these hearings after about 6 months. They messed up some of it so I appealed and won although the Capability stage remaining in place as I would have received one anyway at that point even if they had done things right.

[Lan69]

Carolin it is on Friday the first
I now have a dilemma who to take with me
My CPN, my support worker from working carers or a union rep ! I have just rang my union and I'm waiting for a call back from my rep. I work in the private sector so I don't know if my union has any standing
Terry thanks for reassuring me that they do have certain procedures to follow. I just keep catasrophising that I'm going in and will be coming out with my P45 ....
My line manager isn't sympathetic last time I asked for a phased return she said they didn't do them and if I needed a phased return I shouldn't be coming back. She then went in to say that there had been comments made about my competency at my job which came as a total surprise

[Lan69]

I've just spoke to a really nice union rep who is going to accompany me to my meeting, so I feel a bit better anxiety wise. The worst that can happen is I get dismissed but so what, whatever happens it's ok ! Been listening to self help apps lol :yesyes:

[NoPoet]

Lan69, some companies might start an investigation after you return to work as their policies will have something to say about attendance. If that turns into a disciplinary, you'd likely either have no action taken, or a verbal warning ("stage 1"), which are the best outcomes. Companies do this to try to control massive absence rates and it isn't aimed at you personally. Depending on the size and type of employer, many people are likely to be on stage 1 for attendance.

They wouldn't start the disciplinary process until after the investigation. Depending on the investigation, and their absence policy, it might not turn into a disciplinary.

The meeting they have invited you to will most likely be to discuss what's going on, how they can help and when you think you're coming back.

Bear in mind that you are most likely protected by the Equality Act 2010 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/6) as you could argue that your condition is a form of disability. If you argue this successfully, they will have to be very careful about how they behave towards you. They shouldn't ask you to attend disciplinary meetings while off sick due to a disability. You should discuss occupational health and any adjustments at work that you might need, whatever you think these are. Don't demand them, suggest them and see if you can work out a compromise. And don't accuse them of breaching the Equality Act unless they do something really stupid.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Lan69, some companies might start an investigation after you return to work as their policies will have something to say about attendance. If that turns into a disciplinary, you'd likely either have no action taken, or a verbal warning ("stage 1"), which are the best outcomes. Companies do this to try to control massive absence rates and it isn't aimed at you personally. Depending on the size and type of employer, many people are likely to be on stage 1 for attendance.

They wouldn't start the disciplinary process until after the investigation. Depending on the investigation, and their absence policy, it might not turn into a disciplinary.

The meeting they have invited you to will most likely be to discuss what's going on, how they can help and when you think you're coming back.

Bear in mind that you are most likely protected by the Equality Act 2010 (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/6) as you could argue that your condition is a form of disability. If you argue this successfully, they will have to be very careful about how they behave towards you. They shouldn't ask you to attend disciplinary meetings while off sick due to a disability. You should discuss occupational health and any adjustments at work that you might need, whatever you think these are. Don't demand them, suggest them and see if you can work out a compromise. And don't accuse them of breaching the Equality Act unless they do something really stupid.

I strongly disagree with you on this. Disciplinary is about doing something wrong, Capability is about performance. Absence is covered under Capability.

I was a manager at my last company, and multinational, and I saw the absence rates and it is not true that most people are on a verbal warning. Capability will set down down expectations for improvement and a timescale.

Upstream of formal Capability will be informal discussion processes but once you get into Capability it will be documented.

To start a Disciplinary process off the back of a Capability process would suggest wrongdoing that needs to be addressed with punitive measures.

EDIT: Just to add, there is nothing stopping an employer calling a Capability formal meeting during sickness absence. If they were not allowed to do this, they would never be able to take any action and an employee could remain on their books for life and never go back to work!

[Lan69]

According to my psychiatrist and the occ health nurse I am likely to be covered by the disability provision of the equality act 2010
I'm worried my manager will be annoyed by me taking a union rep with me as previously my cpn accompanied me. In a weeks time I could be dismissed which is so annoying as I'm now in a position to return work with a phased return and a reduction in hours. I'm well aware they have to take in the needs of the business so they could turn round and say these requests cannot be made
Thens there is the competency issue, I don't understand how I had just finished my probation period and had my appraisal which resulted in a pay rise ! If I was showing signs of struggling surely this would of been highlighted. Seems strange this was only brought up at my return to work interview last year ...

[MyNameIsTerry]

Lan,

Yes, there is cover whilst suffering.

If you are entitled to do something per the company policies, that's your right and every employee is expected to respect that. Now, managers often get annoyed by anything that makes their life harder, just like any employee. So, whilst she may be annoyed by extra hassle, that's not to say it is anything more than normal job frustration. If it is anything more than that, tough sh1t...that's work and her manager would expect her to just get on with it as such rules come from the directors.

Personally, I don't think you will be dismissed. I'm not trained to make a judgement as a solicitor or HR specialist maybe, but from my point of view you are able to give them a timescale and they have not conducted a review until quite late into your long term absence so you should be given the benefit of the doubt easily on it. And that's not to say even a later return is too far off either.

I think they would be on very ropey ground in a tribunal by dismissing you so close to a return. Consult your union rep on this.

Also, phased returns are the norm. They are what employers are advised to do to get people back in sooner rather than to wait even longer for a 100% recovery. Your manager must have a head full of rocks because phased returns are known to save companies money! :doh:

This competency issue smells off to me. I think you need to raise that with your union rep before you attend the meeting. That's smells of a manager looking to do something dodgy to back their case. I personally don't think that have a chance with that as they never addressed it before you were off so it should not be used now and they didn't pick up on it in your appraisals so I would be asking why what has changed since you have been off. I think your manager is on very ropey ground here and your union rep should be able to throw this back in her face pretty easily as this is a separate issue and should not be added to your capability hearing. You could even argue this is making your mental health worse and they may back off on this.

You have a HR person there too and they can keep an eye on your manager's behaviour but don't depend on them to do that, stick with your union rep.

Yes, the business has to be considered but you've been off a long time now and they should have considered it earlier if this was an issue because what will a couple of months matter in the grand scheme now?

[Lan69]

Thank you for your reassurance Terry
I do feel in a much better place mentally I must say. This time a month ago I think the thought of this meeting would have had my anxiety through the roof but it seems more settled. God knows what I will be like on Friday tho.
I'm pleased I actually got my union involved, maybe I should of done it earlier but I wasn't in the right frame of mind. I shall be guided by him and I will defo be mentioning the competency issue. Also how this has been impacting on my mental health