Panicking about low Vitamin D and tablets...

[Justanutter]

Hi. Can anybody answer if they have experienced side affects with taking high dose Vitamin D? My level is very low apparently and Dr has put me on 20,000 twice a week and I'm terrified it's too much. Of course I read the bad side affects on Dr Google and as my anxiety is already through the roof I am too scared to take them. It I know I must. I have ordered K2 already as I read up about that and I am wondering if I need to take mag although my levels are okay for that. Help! I am not getting much better from my anti depressants and Dr said low level D could be causing it now. I already get heart palps and health anxiety around heart so terrified it might bring bad attacks on.

I have had three terrible months starting with bad Sertraline affects, withdrawal, taken off Betablockers, started Citalopram ( which I e taken happily before), got terrible panic attacks started, fast heart rate in the morning, wobbly and shaky arms and legs and just general extreme anxiety. Just don't know what is the anxiety or the effect of the low Vitamin D now and really struggling. Still having therapy and doing all I can to minimise anxiety I.e. Meditation, distraction etc. not getting any better. Week 4 of Citalopram next week but only 10mg. I can't carry on like this, my family are sick of me.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I was hoping going back on the Cit would get you back to how you were before so this is a real shame!

K2 is needed when you over a certain threshold of vitamin D and then it's X amount of K2 to X IU of vitamin D. I thought this was when used regular though as opposed to a quick hit regime that GP's follow to get levels back up quickly? Long term not using the K2 is likely a problem since the K2 is needed to force calcium to be correctly directed to where it needs to go otherwise you get calcified deposits in places you really don't want them in. However, I'm thinking that 2 isolated doses might not matter so what have you seen about how people are using it? Did it specify that even in these isolated high doses it would be needed? Or are you having to also add in daily vitamin D too and that's why the K2 is being added?

An interesting thing to consider is that magnesium and vitamin D are synergistic. There are medical case histories showing treatment of children with rickets who were given massive doses of vitamin D (more in the hundreds of thousand to millions IU) and it did nothing. By chance they found low magnesium levels and when adding magnesium found the vitamin D started to work as originally expected.

Doctors don't care about magnesium unless there is a true deficiency. That doesn't mean we are getting what we need when you consider there are arguments that the RDA's are wrong anyway, and we burn through the stuff quicker with anxiety and so do the meds a lot of us take too like my asthma inhalers. So, if nothing is happening, maybe looking at magnesium might be useful.

I'm not sure how you may feel taking those doses. Perhaps it will lift mood? I know when I started on my 5,000IU I did feel a little anxious from feeling different for a day or so but since then I've felt nothing so that could have been one of my many weird & wonderful blips which can be weekly anyway.

[Justanutter]

Hi Terry, so was I. I don't think this shakyiness is just anxiety as I e never had it with anxiety before so that's stressing me out even more. It only stops of an evening.

I was reading some of your posts with Marie on the alternatives thread and she was saying about K2 and maybe I have read it wrong but I looked on the Vitamin D council website (it is American) but supposed to be good and they advocate that VitD should always be taken alongside K2 to stop the calcium going into the arteries. Spoke to pharmacist and they seem to think that 40,000 ui a week, which will be my dose for 8 weeks is okay. It then went onto Patient UK and people have had bad side affects with these mega doses. Family say Dr would not prescribe it if she thought it would do harm or be a problem but then they don't know enough about Vits etc. I am in such a quandry. I did order some Mega-mag 400mg liquid but haven't taken it yet. If I don't take the VitD my health is at risk even more.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, the vitamin D has to be addressed. A deficiency could easily be making you worse even if it's not the real cause of the anxiety itself. Low vitamin D is a well known low mood cause for a start. Low mood is really not going to help you with anxiety, it can strip you of your mental resources. I'm wondering if this will mean your previous Cit experience will return?

Your GP will treat you for the issue, if that means side effects they may monitor but they have to sort that vitamin D issue. Your GP wouldn't easily prescribe anything that would make you feel much worse.

Now I see what you mean with the K2. If it was a high dose for one week, I wouldn't know about issues but I can see why you are wary with it being 8 weeks. I don't know as much as Marie does but I get the impression long term high doses are bad. Marie was mentioning something about women with osteoporosis and what was found out, I think. Certainly K2 won't do any harm as long as it's sensible doses.

Which form of K2 have you bought? Some are in the body longer than others. With you spreading your dose across the week in 2 intervals this might be important to when you take it. Is your vitamin D med a timed release?

I would trust a pharmacist over a GP any day when it comes to meds.

Mega mag is an excellent form of magnesium. Pricey though! I find it's much cheaper if you buy in and ship it over from the US! This Angstrom magnesium, which they call ionic magnesium, is supposed to be very absorbable because it doesn't need digestion as it can pass through into cells more easily as it's so tiny (Angstrom is the measurement of it's size) and I seem to recall it starts even in the mouth but I couldn't be sure on that. I think I read that somewhere but I've been struggling to find the resource again since. Mega Mag gets good reviews and the doctor who is famous for magnesium books recommends it (I've bought some myself to add to my spray on magnesium, just not tried it yet).

There are some good articles on the Mercola site about vitamin D. They might be worth a read. I did see somewhere about at what point you needed to add K2 and how much mcg per X IU of vitamin D but I will have to have a look for it. It would be good to understand if your vitamin D is like a timed release because I wondering whether you could take the K2 daily or whether you need to also take it at the same time as that med on those 2 days because of the issue with K2 elimination. Some of the forms of K2 are barely in the body very long, but some stay in longer. I think it mentions that on the Mercola vitamin D & k2 article but I could probably find that for you if you need it?

I will see if I can find that article from that clinic. They were using regimes like your GP but also ongoing maintenance ones and they explained what K2 they gave their patients so it might shed some light on this issue.

[Justanutter]

The Dr didn't mention anything about monitoring me. Just a repeat blood test in 8 weeks and then a maintenance dose.

The capsules just say Hux D3 ......no leaflet or anything with them, how to take etc. just little gel things.

The K2 I bought are Solgar K2 (MK-7) 100 ug

It says that max dose should be 4,000 ui for adults and that side affects happen more on the mega doses :weep:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Those max dose guidelines are very debatable and there are plenty of professionals arguing for it to be raised as it's not enough. Besides, it depends where you live to. Marie lives in a place where the quality of sun is so bad her GP refuses to even test for vitamin D deficiency because he says everyone has it there (in Canada somewhere well north).

I've been taking 5,000IU now for about 3 or so months. No problems at all other than those first 2 days and that may be a combination of things. Marie takes more than me, I think she was on 10,000IU and never mentioned anything.

You can buy that Hux D3 20,000. Is it 20 capsules you have to take in one go or one big one?

I guess with vitamin D it is stored hence these large doses spread out. Marie knows more on all that.

[Justanutter]

I have to take one 20,000 tablet twice a week for 8 weeks.

Thanks for all your advice Terry. I knew I could rely on you!

Might get some replies later from maybe someone who has also been prescribed the mega dose which will help.

[MyNameIsTerry]

An interesting article for you until I can find the other one about K2 with D3:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/16/vitamin-k2.aspx

So, aside from supplement of K2, if you like your cheeses, there are other options. I eat Quark daily which is a healthy probiotic cheese and I seem to recall it has a good K2 MK-7 content.

MK-7 is the best one what I've always read. It's got a longer half life. The MK-4 one is a nightmare from what I've seen as it's in and out of the body so fast it makes it hard to get the plasma levels up. The MK-7 will do what you need.

Yes, hopefully someone else will spot this to help with the side effect worries. There are threads in here from people who have done this through their GP's as I've seen them so have a search to see if they mention how it went for them. Marie has been on here on & off over the last week or so and maybe she will notice your thread.

[Justanutter]

Thanks again Terry.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Found it, I think this is the medical site I found explaining how they dose their K2. Given they mega dose patients with D3, this should hopefully be a good guide to play safe with:

https://riordanclinic.org/2013/10/vitamins-d3-and-k2-the-dynamic-duo/

It would help if we could get our doctors to tell us but I often wonder whether GP's even know what half of these vitamins & minerals do a lot of the time? :shrug:

I haven't added any K2 yet, although I take D3 5,000IU but with eating a good sized portion of Quark I may be getting a good amount anyway. I think I remember looking up the K2 value in Quark at the time. I didn't fancy eating the pungent natto stuff!

[ss2016]

My Vit D levels have been low several times. I never take the high doses the doctors prescribe, plus you should be taking Vit D and not K2. I just take 1,000 IU's a day. If your scared to take the supplements get out in the sun if you can. Also using a tanning bed will raise your Vit D very quickly. Probably not the healthiest way to increase it, but it works. Also eat more foods that contain Vit D. I never felt a difference in my anxiety or depression when my Vit D was low and then in normal range.

Also you being skakey is a side of effect to the Cit as I am experiencing the same thing. It will pass. Keep trucking on you will get through this!!!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Very few foods contain vitamin D. We primarily get it all from sunlight as a species and we always have.

Tanning beds can come with specific treatment regimes for D3 but you would need to be very careful about this, it's not done the same way as tanning is. There is plenty online about it. They explain how to do it on that Mercola site.

Getting outside may not address deficiency, it's not insufficiency where there is less to make up, this needs treatment. The quality of sunlight matters and in the UK it can be poor. I doubt they would pay to prescribe if it did. There's certainly no reason not to do it though.

SAD lamps are another one but not for anyone who had a disorder including mania since they can trigger episodes in people already suffering from that. Be careful about the minimum level of light though, I've seen some manufacturers selling lamps below it in the past. I can't say I know whether that would be enough for a deficiency though.

K2 isn't too address the vitamin D issue, it's essential in ensuring calcium is directed and the more vitamin D, the more the need to prevent calcification. It's a known health risk.

[Justanutter]

Thanks Terry, I'll have a look at that tonight when get home.

ss2016 - we don't enough sunshine here in the UK to make a difference unless we get an extremely good summer for a change. Even then, I live in the North of England so we get less good summers than down in the South. Thanks though. I wish it were that easy to sort naturally. I don't fancy tanning beds. I have a lot of moles.

[jadedreams]

Hello, I actually have/had low vitamin D as well - found out a couple months ago. I had to take the high doses for several weeks and had no issues other than some constipation (sorry if too much information). Currently I am on 2000 IU's a day, my doctor is going to recheck my levels in a couple months to see where I'm at.

My doctor said it is common to do the high doses for a little while if you are pretty deficient.

[Justanutter]

Thanks Jadedreams. Are you the anxious sort or not? I feel so rubbish at the moment that I am just loathe to add another problem in from side affects so thanks.

---------- Post added at 08:43 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------

Hi Terry, thanks so much for those articles. Very helpful. I might just ring the surgery and ask to start on a lower dose and build up. I don't know why you couldn't just take a lesser dose daily instead of the one or two mega does once or twice a week.

[MyNameIsTerry]

It's NHS guidelines to go with mega dosing followed by maintenance.

I don't understand why they go this way rather than spreading a lower dose over 7 days or whether there is a reason that isn't the same. Since Hux D3 is one of the recommended treatments, they're just following what they are told. They can recommend lower strength supplementation, examples are in the guidelines, but probably more for insufficiency and this means buying your own rather than a prescription charge.