Questions about mindfulness

[rosegarden]

I really want to try mindfulness but I am really scared of trying it, I was about to buy a book on the subject on Amazon when I read a review saying beware of the dangers so I looked further into it and read lots of reports of people that lost there mind due to meditation and never recovered some started hearing voices or felt like something was always watching them some etc so it's really put me off as my mind is very weak as it is! But I've also read anxiety and ocd is caused by overactive parts of the brain the amygdala and prefrontal cortex and the best way to rewire them is regular meditation are there any other styles of mindfulness that doesn't involve mediation?

[KatiePink]

Oh wow! Well i've never heard of that but i suppose there will always be 'bad stories' to counteract the good.
I personally don't believe mindfulness or meditation can make that happen, there must be an issue there already. There's someone on this site called Terry who knows a bit about it all so i am sure he will comment on your thread for you x

[rosegarden]

Oh wow! Well i've never heard of that but i suppose there will always be 'bad stories' to counteract the good.
I personally don't believe mindfulness or meditation can make that happen, there must be an issue there already. There's someone on this site called Terry who knows a bit about it all so i am sure he will comment on your thread for you x
Thanks chick! To be Honest I was in two minds wether to put what I'd read il probably delete this thread after because I don't want to scare anyone that is enjoying mindfulness already. I don't think I could ever do meditation now knowing that just hope there's something else that can help the brain the same way meditation does X

[KatiePink]

I am doing a CBT course online and there's a few staying in the present video's, mindfulness ones and i wouldn't say they are meditation videos. I think anything that can relax your body and hopefully decrease and tension/stress is a good place to start.

Here's a link to a good mindfulness thread on here hope it helps x

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=168689&highlight=mindfulness

[MyNameIsTerry]

Rose,

Yes, this is a known issue but NOT for us. It's for people with more serious mental illness who are prone to things like hallucinations.

In that link Katie posted I wrote a post about this because a new article came out claiming the dangers of meditation. What the author was saying was that people with some more serious mental health problems should seek medical sign off first. I also believe she was talking more about the deep meditation stuff as she was talking about retreats and realisations that seem more akin to forms that go beyond Mindfulness. Some of these people use illegal substances too so it's not like basic meditation.

Remember too that Mindfulness is NICE approved in recurrent depression after clinical trials so it has to be safe. It is also a stripped down version of the Buddhist form.

And like Katie says, it's not just meditation. That's more the breathing form, the others are teaching you to scan your body and use all your senses properly to examine something.

Don't worry about scaring people, by addressing the issue it shows how it's not relevant to us on here and besides I did the same in my thread as a few people had asked.

[MyNameIsTerry]

But I've also read anxiety and ocd is caused by overactive parts of the brain the amygdala and prefrontal cortex and the best way to rewire them is regular meditation are there any other styles of mindfulness that doesn't involve mediation?

Rose,

Mindfulness came to the West in the 1970's as an extract from a Buddhist school of teaching, there are others. But did you know what we do in Mindfulness is actually also in yoga? Did you know that before Buddhism even existed there were forms that included Mindfulness such as Kum Nye?

It goes back a very long way and has become part of more than just Buddhism where it is usually perceived as from.

So, you have some alternatives there.

Also, please be careful. Amazon has loads of fake reviews against products. Authors leave fake reviews against rivals (seen it done). And I've read on Transcendental Meditation sites how they have loads of studies whereas Mindfulness does not, which is untrue on both accounts from what I've seen. They also described Mindfulness is a way I didn't know, and I've seen this with ignorant bloggers in the past, so I question how much some know and whether their is a motive behind some of this.

The NHS promote Mindfulness. NICE have authorised MBCT for recurrent depression based on clinical trials. Professor Mark Williams co created MBCT in the UK and we have an Oxfordshire Mindfulness Centre that us well known. There are now even courses at universities to train in MBCT, which Ruby Wax did herself and now works in that field.

Does that sound like anything dodgy?

[rosegarden]

Thanks very much for the great reply as always Terry! It does sound ok when you put it all like that so I nearly purchased two book but saw an article Again and I just don't think I can do it! There's too many negative things out there and I suffer with intrusive thoughts and think it could make it worse I dunno.
Just been reading about something called dark night what happens to some people when they meditate sounds terrifying! Read a report from the Guardian about dangers of mindfulness aswell. And I also read mindfulness and meditation was adapted from buddists but they don't use it for relaxation they use it for enlightenment and to reach there higher self so Im not sure if it's completely for relaxation.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Well I suffer, or rather suffered intrusive thoughts, and it was fine for me, it actually sorted them out. I know others that use Mindfulness and have intrusive thoughts and there has been no negatives.

Dark night of the soul can happen to anyone.

Mindfulness in Buddhism is a much larger thing, Jon Kabat-Zinn extracted specific elements to take to the West. Buddhists are attempting to achieve spiritual enlightenment and this means going through various levels which include things like dark night.

Mindfulness doesn't take you into deep meditations in any way. In a breathing meditation, usually one of the first you learn, it teaches you to observe and try to allow your mind to wander and just pull it back gently if it strays into areas you don't want it to go but without negative reaction. The other forms you learn look more towards use of your senses and how to exist in the present and spend less time in "autopilot".

What the Buddhists do, you need to enter into Buddhism for. Consequently, you don't reach enlightment through Mindfulness, it's just not trying to achieve that. It's getting you to learn how you are more in the here & now and to use your senses properly, which we did when we were very young children. Life takes over and we are rushing everything without truly experiencing it. For instance, one form teaches you to eat mindfully. This involves not walloping each spoonful down without a care but to slowly examine it as you do it all. Here is an example from a book I have:


Here is an example starter meditation practice from Professor Mark Williams book:

The Raisin Meditation

1. Holding
Hold it in the palm of your hand or between fingers, etc, approach it like it's the first time you've seen on, consider weight, does it throw a shadow.

2. Seeing
Really see it, use full attention, find it's highlights where the light shines, the darker hollows, folds, ridges.

3. Touching
Explore it, turn it over, feel the texture, how does it feel between thumb & forefinger on the other hand.

4. Smelling
Put it under your nose. With each inbreath consider scent, consider no scent, lit it fill your awareness.

5. Placing
Put it to your mouth noticing how your hand & arm does knows where to go automatically. Place it gently in your mouth, noticing how your tongue receives it. Without chewing, explore the sensations of having on your tongue for 30 seconds or more if you choose.

WARNING: Step 5 not advised with a Rowntrees Fruit Pastel (thats all mine :D)

6. Chewing
Take a conscious bite, notice how it affects the object and your mouth, notice taste, feel the texture whilst biting, chew slowly but don't swallow, noticewhat happens to your mouth.

7. Swallowing
See if you can detect the first intention to swallow as it enters your mind, experiencing it with full awareness before swallowing. Notice what how the tongue prepares it for swallowing. Try to follow the sensations of swallowing it and if you can, consciously sense it as it moves down into your stomach. Repeat if any more in your mouth. After each swallow, notice what your tongue does.

8. After-effects
Register any after-effects, is there any aftertaste, what does does the absence of the raisin feel like, is there an automatic tendency to find another?

Spend 20-30 seconds on each of these steps.

Now spend a few minutes writing down your thoughts.

Dark night of the soul can be experienced when your life suddenly becomes as having no meaning to you, all your beliefs about your world are shattered. This can happen when experiencing grief from losing someone or a traumatic event. It's not just a spiritual journey to creates it.

This is important because when you consider grief, many people end up with depression where it continues for a certain period of time (until then it's considered an Adjustment Disorder, a disorder that can apply to big life changes for short periods). Why is this important in the context of your worry? Well, because MBCT, a form that is a meld of Cognitive Therapy and Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness, was co developed by a NHS professor, Mark Williams. He is a NHS psychiatrist. Not long ago NICE reviewed MBCT and determined it was appropriate for use in recurrent depression, those harded forms that meds can struggle with. So, if Mindfulness caused Dark Night Of The Soul, can you conceive of how they would take such a risk in people with complicated depression?

That Guardian article was just about the importance of using a fully trained teacher. The evidence about Dark Night came from Buddhist meditators who were doing a lot. Well, that's just how it can be on the road to enlightment

Buddhism is vast, Mindfulness is nothing like that at all, it's just a tiny element of Buddhism.

The concern in that article for MBCT was DP. It was stated as rare. If it was not, they would know about it since MBCT is a big thing in the UK with a centre at Oxford uni and Bangor uni also being a main teaching centre for degrees as well.

We have to remember that Mindfulness isn't just used for people with anxiety and depression, it is used for other mental health problems too. Some of those can be more susceptible to things like this and so need to be conducted by someone qualified enough.