Very, very severe anxiety! Advice needed please! [Archive]

Needsupport

06-05-16, 23:52

My anxiety regarding hiv has gotten really bad. I am terrified that I either have possibly gotten it or that I could possibly get it through medical negligence or someone malicious in the medical field. It's a living nightmare! I have constant panic attacks and anxiety in the levels that I don't know how my body can withstand.

My fears include:
-having received anesthesia injections in dentist and doctor offices
-having had oral surgery, root canals, cavity fillings, cleanings etc. (THIS is my main concern at the moment after finding out dental equipment can transmit hiv if not sterilized properly)
-having had blood drawn
-having had pap smears at my gyno (again, the fear of reusable instrument and questioning proper sterilization)
-having had surgery
-getting a manicaure
-other environmental blood related exposures

These fears started 3 months ago and after dealing with anxiety, I decided I was going to get tested. I used Oraquick Advance at a clinic and another Oraquick at home. I found out that the tests weren't as reliable due to many variables (I could have drank water 15 mins prior, food could have gotten stuck, was it stored at the right temperature all the time? etc)...

Then my fears consisted of:
-tests possibly not being accurate & the need to retest
-horrible fears that the tests could have been tampered with & contaminated. (At this point I told myself the tests WERE accurate but that NOW i risked possibly being infected from the tests. This anxiety came with A TREMENDOUS amount of GUILT for getting tested in the first place and I told myself I should have just "let it be").

NOW, my fears consist of ALL OF THE ABOVE but mostly dental and gyno reusable equipment that requires sterilization. I have just recently learned about this and it has DESTROYED my sanity.

I experience:
-constant urges to get tested but I refrain because I also experience constant fear of getting the results and/or becoming infected through testing ( I see a million different ways in my mind how this could happen)
-terrified to ever go to the dentist or gyno ever again.:scared15::scared15:

I also have OCD and am currently not working so my days are spent horribly obsessing and reading articles that scare me. Prior to this starting, I had NO IDEA hiv could be transmitted through dental equipment. Sometimes I looked at the new syringe being opened, sometimes I didn't. I feel so much guilt over this now. I can't shake the fact that my fears COULD be true if proper precautions weren't taken and I just can't trust that they were. What do I do??????

I also want to add that I have a lot of paranoia and superstitious thoughts regarding this fear that somehow I will bring this into my life just because of my anxiety, or that I will be the victim of some malicious person purposely infecting me. Even typing all this out scares me as I get "magical thinking OCD" and basically a lot of paranoia about the "law of attraction" and all that stuff. PLEASE GIVE ADVICE!!!

DrG00GLE

07-05-16, 00:04

The reasons for you thinking you have HIV don't seem to be too big of causes. You have to get tools really dirty in order to contract something like HIV. They will clean their stuff or they will get sued. Tests for HIV should be reliable as well. It's not that hard to detect. The more you dwell on the thoughts and never get a diagnosis, the worse the symptoms are. I was convinced I had eye cancer and all I did was sit at home scared. I developed tons of visual problems then. I went into the doctor and he said I just had a nevus. It can turn into cancer but I don't think like that. Definitely wish I could have gotten the diagnosis sooner. All in all, you will be greatly reassured when the results come negative. Just do it!:D

Fishmanpa

07-05-16, 00:10

I understand that you're focusing on very specific incredibly rare or non-existent ways one can get HIV but unless you've engaged in unprotected sex in a high risk situation, there's no way. The tests are accurate these days and you've tested negative.

You're asking for advice. The most common sense and prudent advice is to get help for your mental illness in the form of therapy and meds. Words on a screen will do nothing unless you act on them so... ~ tosses you the ball ~

Positive thoughts

Needsupport

07-05-16, 08:07

I did test negative but as I said there were variables to the test. Not sure I can fully trust the oraquick test for a few reasons. Also, after watching and learning more about the dental procedures, I see that they need to be very specific and mistakes CAN be made. I just don't understand how everyone else isn't as distressed by this realization as I am? I seriously feel traumatized by finding out that dental equipment can infect you. It's seriously destroying my sanity and causing me the worst anxiety I have ever felt so far. It's not just about past experiences. It's also about knowing that I will need to go to the dentist again in the future and this is honestly traumatizing for me and I'm not using that word lightly. How do patients ensure their safety in dentist offices? Yes before I had OCD I didn't think about this stuff and didn't know much about it but now I do and I feel terrified all the time. I had hope my OCD would get better but now after finding out about the dentist I don't know anymore. I don't even think it's OCD to want to be safe at your doctor.

dizzy daisy

07-05-16, 08:13

Honestly you have no need to be concerned. There is so much legislation, auditing and literally layers of checking when cleaning these devices there is no need to have any fears.
Autoclave records temperatures at stages of the sterilisation process, if any of these readings are lower than they should be- they have to go through again- even though in reality the instruments would be fine - but no one would breach the rules, they would be in so much shit if they did they would literally be hung drawn and quartered.
You had concerns re drill bits? In the UK there is a big move towards single use items and surgical drill bits are amongst that. Actually the concern was not at all related to HIV and I know most people said that any risks from reusing drill but- after full autoclave processes of course would be so minimal it was a joke, but never the less it's been implemented so that's how seriously sterilisation is taken.
Any detergents used as part of the cleaning processes also are seriously strong, so much so that staff who work in these departs often complain of tight chests after using them. I remember some of our instruments started to become pitted because the product was so strong. All instruments are inspected for signs of pitting- if pitting is found then they are taken out of service - again another extreme measure to ensure the tool can be cleaned within an inch of its life!!
You have no worries honestly xx

Needsupport

07-05-16, 14:52

I appreciate your responses thank you! It's still hard for me to just go by "oh they follow protocol all the time"... This fear is unique in that it includes future worries for me.... My anxiety up till now has always been about something that has already happened... And now it's both.... I know I can't avoid the dentist and gyno though so this is by far the most challenging for me... I honestly wish I never learned about this... It's really hurting me and now I wish I had went to school to become a dental assistant so I could clean the tools used on me myself.... Even before getting severe anxiety, I wouldn't let make up artists use their makeup on me.... Now that my anxiety is off the roof, I find out that dentists have been using the same tools on me as everybody else.... I don't know what I thought before.... I guess I just didn't think about it.... Is there anything that can be done to alleviate the anxieties of those with this type of OCD??

Fishmanpa

07-05-16, 23:56

Is there anything that can be done to alleviate the anxieties of those with this type of OCD??

It's quite apparent nothing anyone can say, despite all logic, is going to reassure you or help you overcome your fear. The forum is great in that you know you're not alone and cathartic in being able to write out your thoughts and feelings but it's not a replacement for real life intervention. As suggested, therapy as well as meds are the most tried and true ways to overcome the challenges you're facing.

Positive thoughts

Needsupport

08-05-16, 06:44

I understand it is hard to give advice because even my family members are having a hard time. Meanwhile I just don't understand why we as patients are expected to be okay with NOT KNOWING whether our dentists are following protocol. Then I read articles that just increase my anxiety and make me think I'm not being irrational and that this is possible. I just can't handle this anymore!!!! The anxiety is seriously destroying my soul, mind and body. I don't know what to do about this. To me going to the dentist or gyno at this point feels like a gamble for my life. It's a horrible, horrible feeling. I have struggled to eat, sleep or function due to the panic attacks over this. I seriously feel so depressed!

DrG00GLE

08-05-16, 15:51

Think about it like this, if your dentist some how got a patient with HIV, (1/265 of Americans have it, dentist takes probably takes 200 patients a day. This means that every day there is a low chance the dentist would take a patient with it. Every day, the dentist goes under extreme protocol to clean his/her tools. Blah blah blah random facts and you bring the chance of you getting any sort of infection from any dentist at around 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 1!!!!!

The chance of a regular test for HIV to miss the infection is about a 5% when you first get it. After a while, that comes to about 1%, then it gets so low that it's not really even possible.

So, that makes it 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance this could happen!

You have a higher chance of getting hit by a falling vending machine and dying 10 times over!!!!

If, somehow you got this "HIV" you still will be able to live for 10 years plus, and you can lavishly live that 10 years with 10 million dollars after you sue your dentist! If you want, you can ask your dentist about it next time you go. He will be able to explain how their protocol is when it comes to cleaning equipment. If anyone ever tried to give you HIV, (pretty messed up) take your fingers, make a chopstick form with them, and gouge out their eyes. Then laugh, and run away! :D Safe!

Edit: I've had 10+ cavities (Don't laugh) I haven't gotten any sort of anything. My dad has a lot of fake teeth too. No problem with him.

Mojo61

08-05-16, 15:57

I worked as a dental nurse for over 13 years, and I can categorically state that there is no way on this planet that any dentist would use unsterilised instruments on you. We nurses are meticulous with our sterilisation techniques and all instruments are put in an autoclave immediately after use - and that autoclave door WILL NOT open until all the contents have been properly sterilised. There is just no way it would happen.

Needsupport

10-05-16, 20:53

Thank you for the replies!

Clearly, I have a few fears regarding this... I have thoroughly looked at the sterilization process online and it seems to be very particular. You have to wash the instruments with an enzyme solution and then dry them, then you package them and put them in the autoclave for a particular temp and time. You are supposed to change gloves between touching the dirty and clean instruments. Then the pouches in the autoclave have a tape that changes color. This change of color means that the instruments were exposed to the high temp. Also, you are supposed to biologically monitor the autoclave (weekly I believe?) by doing spore testing to ensure that it is working. As patients, we just have to take their word that all of this is being done properly, all the time??????

I am really struggling with this!! I have a hard time with UNOPENED syringes and needles, let alone with allowing others to use equipment that was used on someone else and trust them that they are following complete protocol to ensure my safety. This news has really terrified me! :scared15::scared15: I really don't know how to cope with this. All this worrying is preventing me from living my life as I have ABSOLUTELY TERRIFYING panic attacks and I just don't know how to stop obsessing over this.

Also, the oral test- Ugh! Could I have gotten infected if the woman at the clinic contaminated the swab? I have gotten myself so deep into this mess I don't know how to get out of it. I wish I never got tested and I wish I NEVER LEARNED ABOUT REUSABLE DENTAL EQUIPMENT. What is the point of knowing if I can't protect myself? Am I ever going to overcome this horrible fear? I'm terrified of this disease and I'm also terrified of the mental and emotional torture I am going through. I am so scared I will be like this forever now because I can't avoid the dentist. I'm just scared that I will always leave with this fear regarding the dentist. I'm at a loss for words and do not know what to do. My mom says I need to get off these websites and just stop all searching about this disease. I tried that for a day and had anxiety so intense, I couldn't stop crying. I just want to connect to my old life again. Is it too late???? Is there hope???? I'm going through a lot.

Lifelonganxiety!

10-05-16, 21:24

Hey again,

First of all - yes, there absolutely is hope for you. 100% yes!

I just don't think it's going to come from this website, not to any satisfactory long term solution anyway. As Fishmanpa said, you need to get professional, real-life assistance with this. Your phobia is having a major impact on your life and in such instances, a quick reassuring message on here will have zero impact.

You need to get professional counseling for your obsessive thoughts. This is why I know there is hope for you. The methods used to deal with OCD are highly effective, I know a few people who had crippling fears completely cured by appropriate treatment.

I urge you to please seek this help and treatment. I agree with your mother - researching won't change the fears you have now, as you are stuck on the what if...

Fishmanpa

10-05-16, 21:28

Is it too late???? Is there hope???? I'm going through a lot.

The answer is "no" but it's up to you to be your own advocate. I wrote this on another post. Hopefully the words will ring true to you.

"The reality is this is an internet forum. It's a "virtual" world with screen names and words. There are people behind the words and it's up to them to take on board and "act" in order to move forward. There are also people that run the gamut from minimally affected to those that have been institutionalized and every type and severity of mental illness in between. All one can do is try to write some words that make an impact and hopefully help. Beyond that? :shrug: We can't reach through the screen and drag them to a mental health professional or shove pills down their throats.

Again, it comes down to acting on one's personal behalf. Recovery is hard work whether it's from a mental illness or a physical one. Often times, it can be a life long process. I believe most can reach their "new normal" and find peace."

What you speak of is akin to the brain eating amoeba, ALS, ebola, rabies etc. and the myriad of virtually impossible scenarios. In real life there are far more probable threats that could happen (like car accidents, falling down a flight of stairs etc.) yet we go on with our lives with nary a thought of that. Why you latched onto this particular irrational fear is what needs to be explored.

Hopefully you'll take the steps to discover why this is affecting you so severely and remedy the reason.

Good luck and positive thoughts
Positive thoughts

Needsupport

10-05-16, 22:16

Thank you for responding!
I understand that nobody here can make anybody better but it is nice to get some support as it is hard to talk about this stuff with people in "the real world". Nonetheless, I feel so disconnected from the real world, it makes me cry very hard. I see people moving on and living their lives and not worry about things the way I do, and I am here STUCK, obsessing endlessly about possible hiv through oral tests or through doctor and dentist offices.

So it seems that dental burs are not hollow bore needles? But I just found out that dentists do use reusable syringes but not needles (through my research online). But I can't shake the thought that this is not irrational. Blood born diseases CAN be spread this way and I have read numerous articles where the sterilization process was not done 100% correctly. :scared15::scared15: I just CAN'T trust that these instruments have been properly sterilized without proof and I am afraid I will always be terrified of this. Since I will have to go to the dentist throughout my life, will I spend all my life worried about the dentist and whether they are properly sterilizing their equipment? This is so so awful.

To give you a little background- I used to be able to go to the doctor and dentist and although I had some anxiety, I believed that anesthetic was NON REUSABLE and that the other dental tools could not transmit diseases. At times I would not look at the needle being opened in front of me and this did cause some anxiety. After awhile, I had to make sure the needles were opened in front of me from a new package. This still gave me some anxiety. However, I did not get stuck on this and was able to move on.

I was finding comfort in thinking I was being treated with new instruments. Regardless, when I developed ocd about this, I thought about all the times I had not seen them open a new needle in front of me and decided to get tested. At this time, I still thought these were disposable syringes (as some of them are). However, now I am finding out that I have had a REUSABLE syringe in me (disposable needle) when getting my wisdom teeth pulled out. It is one of those big, old scary looking syringes. They told me they sterilize them but how do I know they sterilize everything properly? :scared15:

I am really in such a state over this and also over the Oraquick tests. I just hope I couldn't have been infected through an oral swab or through medical and dentist equipment. How come the rest of you aren't concerned? Shouldn't we as patients have the right to feel safe at the doctors and dentist's office???? Why are you okay with reusable equipment that can transmit hiv??? :scared15:

Terrified over here and the fact that I will have to go to the dentist is making me fear not only hiv but also my mental and emotional well being. I am so so scared that this is the final straw for my mental health and that I will never get better. Deep down I sure hope I will but this news about reusable syringes and sterilization has traumatized me. I wish I never learned this. Why did I? Because I was trying to comfort myself through research and all I found was things I did not want to find.:weep:

Fishmanpa

10-05-16, 22:24

Certainly it's comforting to know that there are others that have fears and I'm sure it's helpful and cathartic to write them out but the real question is... Is it really support if nothing anyone can say will help you overcome the fear?

I truly wish you comfort, peace and healing.

Positive thoughts

Lifelonganxiety!

10-05-16, 22:38

The point is, you weren't infected with HIV from any needle at a doctor's or dentists. You took the test, you don't have HIV. The odds of transmission in this manner are one in a million, multiplied by the odds of the test being wrong, your odds are one in hundreds of millions. i.e. it didn't happen.

The fear of this is what you need to address with a professional.

I think the rest of us aren't as concerned are because the chances of it happening are less than winning the Powerball, and I'm not taking out massive loans expecting to win that any time soon.

Needsupport

10-05-16, 22:39

I don't know how I will overcome this fear or how I will at least be able to put it aside and get back to being me again.

-Fear of oraquick tests and possible contamination
-Fear of past and future needles and equipment in medical and dental offices
-Fear of needles & fear of getting tested

I really wish I was one of those people who did not have ocd and health anxiety. I was reading dental reviews and noticed that people don't even think about this stuff. For me, it is all I can think about. My mind just won't let go. So what are some steps I can take to get better? One of my compulsions is to come online asking about this stuff. I spend my whole day CONSUMED with these thoughts. The dental stuff, it has been about a week. The Oraquick test fears, it has been almost 2 months and the fears regarding past exposures- 3 months. Overall 3 months of complete suffering which has only gotten more severe. 3 months of NO OTHER thoughts in my head. THIS IS SO PAINFUL! I just want to STOP doing this. I cry everyday and my chest is heavy and burning. This anxiety is terrible.

Lifelonganxiety!

10-05-16, 22:57

Instead of researching dentists, HIV or cleaning methods - take 30 minutes to research some good counselors and OCD therapists in your region. That would be time very well spent. Researching anything else will just make it worse.

Set yourself that one goal - to find a therapist today. Ask your family to help you if needed. Then next step is to make the appointment, then go to the appointment, then start learning techniques and so on. It's not a quick fix, but the alternative is to go around in circles.

Needsupport

11-05-16, 02:00

Thanks! I have searched for OCD therapists and they have a waiting list for a couple of months :shrug:

I also am very familiar with OCD because I have struggled with it for a long time, but never like this.

Also, what is making this really difficult is that I actually see my dentist concerns as valid and am TERRIFIED to literally trust a stranger with my life... to properly sterilize equipment etc. Also, as far as Oraquick oral swabs go- I am not sure if you can get infected through an oral swab so that's an uncertainty.

I am very shaken by finding out about dental tools and that I will forever have to deal with this. I can't avoid the dentist forever. I just don't know how to cope with this news. My heart hurts all day. In the past, I was able to move past my fears because they weren't logically possible. But what happens when your fears COULD be possible? This is what is really scaring me. :unsure: How does one deal with OCD that isn't so irrational? I have to accept that the situation is out of my control and that is what is causing me so much misery.

Fishmanpa

11-05-16, 02:11

How does one deal with OCD that isn't so irrational? I have to accept that the situation is out of my control and that is what is causing me so much misery.

What you're not seeing due to your illness is that it IS highly irrational. The last sentence about accepting things (not just this) out of your control is the first rational and sensible thing you've said and the key to healing.

In the US, every state has a mental health hotline. Perhaps a call would be prudent. Also, print out this thread and take it to your GP. They may be able to get you a referral sooner and prescribe a chill pill to help in the meantime.

Positive thoughts

Needsupport

11-05-16, 05:53

What you're not seeing due to your illness is that it IS highly irrational. The last sentence about accepting things (not just this) out of your control is the first rational and sensible thing you've said and the key to healing.

In the US, every state has a mental health hotline. Perhaps a call would be prudent. Also, print out this thread and take it to your GP. They may be able to get you a referral sooner and prescribe a chill pill to help in the meantime.

Positive thoughts

But how is it highly irrational to fear that the equipment may not be sterilized 100% as it should be or to fear that some mistake could have happened?

The sterilization process includes:
1. Washing the tools with an enzyme solution & drying the tools
2. Bagging the tools and placing them in an autoclave at the right temp for the right time. Also, not overpacking the autoclave
3. Placing the tools in a clean space
4. Doing weekly spore testing to ensure the sterilizing machines are working properly

I have watched A LOT of videos on this and some get it all right, some clutter the autoclave etc. I just feel like it is possible that negligence could happen :weep: I'm so terrified of this. How can I be sure that they are on top of everything and that they are doing everything as they are supposed to? I'm afraid I will never go back to being "me" and this is scaring me so badly. I am also NOT working currently so of course all day is spent with these thoughts. Advice? Look for a job? Do you think it would help to get out and distract myself with other things?

MyNameIsTerry

11-05-16, 06:48

I think this is part of the problem, continual checking/analysing. I think this is a compulsion for you and as you will know, all compulsions reinforce obsessions.

It is important in OCD to obtain information so that we can rationalise BUT we also have to be careful because it can reach obsessiveness and then it has become a part of the cycle.

Using information can be done in a structured way like in a Thought Record. This encourages reframing with a final conclusion. Right now you will watch these vids, get some very temporary closure for the issue but then the obsession will start it again. A Thought Record can be useful with this as it gets it out of your head and onto paper in a structured manner. Then when this comes to you, you get that out and fill it in or simply re-read it and work on accepting the conclusion that is based on evidence for & against.

There are other techniques like a Theory A/Theory B which can help with this too.

Acceptance work is critical too. And I would really encourage you to read & try to understand your Cognitive Distortions...the Wiki page explains them accurately. These CD's are a real problem because they show you a biased view of the problem and you miss the reality out because you are operating a tunnel vision viewpoint. It is critical to change this so that you take a more open minded view to issues.

There are probabilities involved but you don't see them for what they are. What is the chance of getting HIV from something like this because of an error in a very stringent process full of quality controls? Is it somewhere in the region of 0.0000001%? If it was a 40% chance, you could argue you should be concerned but not the former %. This again is a CD issue because your chances of being killed in so many ways any day of the week is far higher than this (think of car accidents, for instance) yet these are not part of the obsession. That is why this is irrational for a start.

---------- Post added at 06:42 ---------- Previous post was at 06:33 ----------

I just feel like it is possible that negligence could happen :weep: I'm so terrified of this. How can I be sure that they are on top of everything and that they are doing everything as they are supposed to? I'm afraid I will never go back to being "me" and this is scaring me so badly. I am also NOT working currently so of course all day is spent with these thoughts. Advice? Look for a job? Do you think it would help to get out and distract myself with other things?

You won't like this BUT yes it can. Just like if all those food manufacturers don't maintain their standards, you could be poisoned by something. But are you fearing that? If not, why not? Surely these lesser quality processes (thin about nut allergy control, for instance) should scare you more because they have a higher probability than anyone from a medical field.

Can you see what I mean? This is what we see as people outside of your obsession and that's why we view it as irrational.

Part of freeing ourselves from this trap is to acknowledge a possibility is always a possibility but because probability is so low it is incredibly rare, so why would it be us that suffer from it? And we also have to acknowledge that our obsession over this is badly skewed because we are fearing something so rare over the much higher probability of something that could happen to us.

We know it's the obsession driving it and no amount of reassurance or talk will ever make it go away. You wouldn't have a disorder if you simply accepted it and walked away. It takes a load of work to come through the other side and you will have constant doubts because that's just the nature of these disorders.

Waiting 3 months over here is pretty average on the NHS, some are much longer. Private is much quicker. But in the meantime you can be working on this on your own because I can tell you that a therapist doesn't make it go away or change, they just give you tools, guidance and encourage you to challenge your thinking. The rest is all you, and recovery is done by the sufferer, the therapist is a minor role.

So, why not start with some CBT workbooks? I know of some good ones that I can post. It will be hard, very hard, but it will be in therapy too. It will mean discipline on your part in keeping it going and not allowing your anxiety to push you into obsessing.

If you can say that you know there is a problem, that this is not how you should be, then that's one step ahead of some people.

---------- Post added at 06:48 ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 ----------

You know how you feel right now that this is so strong that you don't think you can overcome it or even reduce it a little bit? Post #31 was me a few years back and I was saying exactly the same as you are now:

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169503&page=4

My day was owned by my OCD. Hundreds of compulsions a day. I felt cursed. If I can type this and know for a fact that what I say is true, and it is, that I have come a long way since then...so can you too because I was saying the same and look how bad I was.

An important part is working on reducing your overall anxiety levels too. A lot of us OCD people agree that this spikes our OCD, or at least those I have spoken to who have found the same as me. I can't say anyone has ever said the opposite in talks since being here.

A job may help, but don't kid yourself that it will sort it. You will still need to work on it or you will likely bury yourself in your work like I did - which in me was avoidance. It could help you think about it less and allow you to naturally work on recovery without realising it but I think this is a poor strategy without also working consciously on change because it's like taking meds, it is assuming it will find a way to change itself without your conscious intervention.

Needsupport

12-05-16, 01:40

Terry,
Thank you for the long response. I am really struggling and can't manage to write a long reply but I wanted to acknowledge that I read your reply and it is much appreciated.

Fishmanpa

12-05-16, 02:25

But how is it highly irrational to fear that the equipment may not be sterilized 100% as it should be or to fear that some mistake could have happened?

The sterilization process includes:
1. Washing the tools with an enzyme solution & drying the tools
2. Bagging the tools and placing them in an autoclave at the right temp for the right time. Also, not overpacking the autoclave
3. Placing the tools in a clean space
4. Doing weekly spore testing to ensure the sterilizing machines are working properly

I have watched A LOT of videos on this and some get it all right, some clutter the autoclave etc. I just feel like it is possible that negligence could happen :weep: I'm so terrified of this. How can I be sure that they are on top of everything and that they are doing everything as they are supposed to? I'm afraid I will never go back to being "me" and this is scaring me so badly. I am also NOT working currently so of course all day is spent with these thoughts. Advice? Look for a job? Do you think it would help to get out and distract myself with other things?

But what are the chances of this? 1 in 10+ million? You stand a better chance of hitting the lotto! That's the point I'm making.

You stand a better chance of being in a car accident, getting cancer in your lifetime etc., etc., etc., than getting a communicable disease that's 100% more likely from unprotected sex than improperly sterilized dental instruments!

You're in a really bad spiral right now. I don't expect my words to help right now but maybe, just maybe, when you start to come down from this spiral, you'll see the logic in my words.

How do you stop it? Traditional methods are proven and best. Therapy and meds if needed. I truly hope you take the steps toward healing. These are words on a screen. Your actions mean more than any words.

Positive thoughts

Nicholebear

12-05-16, 04:28

MyNameIsTerry

12-05-16, 04:56

Well traditional isn't quite right, this is a field of science and it's always moving forward. So, many changes have occurred since even CBT was created and neuroscience has had some pretty big discoveries too. So, really it's about the guidance we are given on what currently works as times change otherwise Mindfulness wouldn't be making such an impact with therapists recommending it to us.

Meds are a personal decision, they can hard going if you are unlucky. Make no mistake, "chill pills" are not long term meds, more likely the SSRI route will be taken.

I think you are already in a spiral but that doesn't mean you can't get out of it on your own, with guidance, therapy, meds or a combination. People do. Spiralling doesn't necessarily mean reaching a rock bottom or breakdown, they can be transient too.

Fishmanpa

12-05-16, 12:55

MyNameIsTerry

12-05-16, 13:54

I'm 5000% positive you don't have HIV
Also, you've been to the doctor multiple times about this, the BEST person you could ask. You've been tested. How are strangers on the internet going to be more assuring than that?

I think therapy and meds are the way to go, you're definitely reaching a spiral.

You could line up every doctor in the world ands conduct every test hundreds of times and would have about as much impact as only one doctor with one test. That's just the nature of the disorder and whilst a doctor offers more than we could on HIV, we can at least offer more understanding & guidance on the anxiety side and talk.

At the worst of my OCD I knew things weren't right. Later I knew they were illogical & irrational. I would have listened to what everyone on here and every therapist & doctor told me and knew they were right. Would it have changed the situation and stopped my obsessive behaviour and compulsions? Not in the slightest. Only hard work on recovery with strategies can do that.

It's not delusion, delusion means total belief and they wouldn't be questioning it or even be on this forum at all, but unfortunately it takes a lot of time and effort to change the subconscious to stop cycles like this. Until that takes place, the situation doesn't change and the cycles will continue no matter what anyone can say.

Needsupport

13-05-16, 19:48

I have not been to the doctor for HIV testing. I went to Planned Parenthood and the staff working there gave me the test and I also bought an at-home HIV test. All 3 tests were Oraquick Oral Swab. The reason why I do not feel 100% certain of them is because if you go on their website you will see them list a million reasons for why the test results may not be valid. I think this test should have never been approved if it is this unreliable but that's another story. My issues with the tests are as follows:

Test 1- The girl who did this test DID NOT tell me that I couldn't drink water at least 15 mins prior to the test. I had a sip of water and have no idea if it was before 15 mins. Also, she took the timer with her and I don't know for certain how much time had passed when she read the results. The results have to be read within 20-40 minutes.

Test 2- As I swabbed my gums, the cotton pad picked up a small yellowish residue from my gums. I had brushed my teeth and had not eaten in a long time, but it was from my wisdom tooth and I don't always get a chance to clean them perfectly. So, of course there's a chance it could have been a food particle. Also, there's a pink background that forms as the test develops which then becomes white. The background became white but there was a little bit of the pink background that didn't fully fade. So my doubts are regarding the food particle (website says "no food should get on the test" and the background not clearing all the way).

Test 3- I bought this test from Walgreens. I did everything right and I have no questions regarding the test but I do wonder, since Walgreens accepts returns, if someone could have bought the test before me, kept it in their car trunk overnight in cold temp. and then returned it. The test is supposed to be kept at a certain temp. I also wonder "could food somehow have gotten on this test too since I didn't fully check to make sure?"

As you can see, it is not just because of my ocd that I have questioned the tests. It is because they have all these disclaimers. I don't know if I should do a blood test at the doctor's. :weep: What do you guys think??? But do I need to get tested every time I see a doctor or dentist now?? This is really overwhelming. I have many fears but they all rotate. I can't remember over all the years I have been in dentist and doctor offices if I saw them open new syringes, bring new tools in etc..I have all kind of "what if"s.... I try to tell myself that most people would not get tested over this but I just feel so overwhelmed by all this because if the equipment used wasn't new or sterilized properly, realistically, there is a risk. It is a real possible mode of transmission. I even have fears that dental tools from a previous patient in the room were left there and forgotten to be changed. It's really taken over my brain!!!!

Nicholebear

14-05-16, 01:25

MyNameIsTerry

14-05-16, 08:01

It depends what Walgreens would do with it. If it was a return due to a fault, I would expect a retailer to document this and send it back as they can get their money back too. If it was simply returned as not wanted and they agreed a refund or voucher or swap for another item, then could they just put it back on the shelf? I don't know about an item like this but with many unopened items I would expect that, at least over here anyway. Over here items can be resold if unopened when returned but I'm less sure on testing items like this.

Having a "once & for all" test can prove that you don't have HIV. A blood test with someone medically trained who does these things thousands of times a year would mean the highest standards of both accuracy & hygiene.

Should you have a test everytime you have an injection or needle break your skin? No, definitely not. I'm sure you've had blood taken or inoculations at some point in your life but you have never worried about them, have you? Even since your OCD has focussed on a HIV contamination theme from the angle of a partner and any potential future needle, it hasn't thought about the ones you've had in the past, has it?

When you have a blood test or inoculation, have you noticed how they take the needle from out of a sealed pack? These are very high medical health & safety standards and they work. If they didn't, we would be seeing cases of people being infected. The companies that make & package these needles have very high regulated safety standards to ensure that they cannot get infected before they go into those packs.

Needsupport

16-05-16, 21:11

I think a blood test is the way to go, but when it comes back negative, are you going to think that the needle they used to draw the blood has HIV on it?

Also I doubt that someone that buys an HIV test will return it to Walgreens. I'm positive that yours was not a returned product.

Well, first, I am terrified of going through the testing process as it took A LOT of courage and honestly, I don't even know how I managed to get tested 3 times. Even though I used the oral swab, I still question whether I could have somehow gotten infected through it.

So there are 2 issues to getting the blood test:
1- Just the thought of testing again TERRIFIES me
2- Yes, I fear that the needle could infect me :weep:

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:04 ----------

It depends what Walgreens would do with it. If it was a return due to a fault, I would expect a retailer to document this and send it back as they can get their money back too. If it was simply returned as not wanted and they agreed a refund or voucher or swap for another item, then could they just put it back on the shelf? I don't know about an item like this but with many unopened items I would expect that, at least over here anyway. Over here items can be resold if unopened when returned but I'm less sure on testing items like this.

Having a "once & for all" test can prove that you don't have HIV. A blood test with someone medically trained who does these things thousands of times a year would mean the highest standards of both accuracy & hygiene.

Should you have a test everytime you have an injection or needle break your skin? No, definitely not. I'm sure you've had blood taken or inoculations at some point in your life but you have never worried about them, have you? Even since your OCD has focussed on a HIV contamination theme from the angle of a partner and any potential future needle, it hasn't thought about the ones you've had in the past, has it?

When you have a blood test or inoculation, have you noticed how they take the needle from out of a sealed pack? These are very high medical health & safety standards and they work. If they didn't, we would be seeing cases of people being infected. The companies that make & package these needles have very high regulated safety standards to ensure that they cannot get infected before they go into those packs.

Terry,
I spoke with Walgreens and they claim that they DO NOT put the test back on the shelf if returned. They also said there have been no returns of the Oraquick tests. I don't know how much I believe them though. And no, prior to developing this AWFUL, TERRIBLE fear, I was somewhat able to go to doctors without intense fear. I did not always look at the needle being opened in front of me, which is the main reason why I got tested. Then, I question the accuracy of the tests and even question if the oral swab could have infected me. Then I learn that dental tools can infect and that we must rely on "trust" and that we can't see the sterilization process. Mix all that with INTENSE OCD and there is a recipe for a very traumatic experience. I can't believe I am going through this right now. It feels so awful. And because I have SO many fears, my brain constantly rotates. Like this morning I was obsessing about possible contamination through injection in the past and now I am wondering if the oral swabs could have infected me- Is that even possible??? If someone malicious had placed the virus inside the test kit, could it infect someone?? Yesterday, I was obsessing about the water lines in a dentist's office (the ones they use for the suction tube and the water that sprays from the hand pieces/drills)... I am all over the place with these fears. I really don't know how to get out of this mess!! I am so so scared that I will never get better. :weep:

Nicholebear

16-05-16, 21:13

Well, first, I am terrified of going through the testing process as it took A LOT of courage and honestly, I don't even know how I managed to get tested 3 times. Even though I used the oral swab, I still question whether I could have somehow gotten infected through it.

So there are 2 issues to getting the blood test:
1- Just the thought of testing again TERRIFIES me
2- Yes, I fear that the needle could infect me :weep:

I think you should do it, maybe explain to the doctor performing the test that you have ocd/Heath anxiety and that you need to see the needles and vials opened in front of you (this is standard procedure but I feel like telling him/her that will make you feel better)

It's really not a big deal. I have not had an HIV test done before but I have had blood drawn. It's a lot easier if you look away or close your eyes. It doesn't hurt much, just a little pinch when they put it in and pull it out. The peace of mind you'll have will be worth the discomfort.

Like I've said, I don't even think you need this test, I'm more than certain you don't have it. But this seems to be the only definite way to convince you you're HIV negative.

Fishmanpa

16-05-16, 21:43

Have you called/contacted a mental health hotline yet? Words on a screen aren't going to help nor have they. The words of a national drug store chain didn't help nor will they. Definitive tests results haven't helped nor will they even if you're tested again! Treating your mental illness is the most practical and effective way to treat the fears you have.

Give them a call. There's nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Positive thoughts

Needsupport

18-05-16, 04:58

I think you should do it, maybe explain to the doctor performing the test that you have ocd/Heath anxiety and that you need to see the needles and vials opened in front of you (this is standard procedure but I feel like telling him/her that will make you feel better)

It's really not a big deal. I have not had an HIV test done before but I have had blood drawn. It's a lot easier if you look away or close your eyes. It doesn't hurt much, just a little pinch when they put it in and pull it out. The peace of mind you'll have will be worth the discomfort.

Like I've said, I don't even think you need this test, I'm more than certain you don't have it. But this seems to be the only definite way to convince you you're HIV negative.

My issue isn't so much the way it feels, rather than the fear of getting tested again and the "what if" thoughts that could follow afterwards. :unsure: Yes, even if they open the needle in front of me. I'm leaning towards not getting another test...for now.

---------- Post added at 23:58 ---------- Previous post was at 23:57 ----------

Have you called/contacted a mental health hotline yet? Words on a screen aren't going to help nor have they. The words of a national drug store chain didn't help nor will they. Definitive tests results haven't helped nor will they even if you're tested again! Treating your mental illness is the most practical and effective way to treat the fears you have.

Give them a call. There's nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Positive thoughts

I am working towards spending less time researching this stuff and trying to do other things. Of course the thoughts continue to haunt me.

Needsupport

20-05-16, 03:48

Just when I get my head above water a little, I learn new information and develop new fears. So after feeling somewhat calmer about the fact that the hiv virus is fragile when outside the body, I read that NATURAL hiv is fragile but the lab grown hiv is not... So SOMEHOW, I manage to think up a scenario where my oral swab test could have had some lab grown virus in it. I have looked up all the ingredients on the test and I know it doesn't have live virus but it has antigens, which are a part of the virus.

Of course I have been researching left and right to find out how these antigens are made and put on the test. My questions are "do they grow a whole virus and then get the antigens out or do they have some sort of process for creating them without the need for the whole virus?", "Could there have been some mistake made and instead of just the antigens could the test have had a virus in it?", "Could someone evil at the manufacturers have tampered with the test and placed a virus in it and what if the virus is a strain that is not detectable by tests?"

I have cried so much today wishing I could just STOP learning all this new scary information about dentists, manicures, lab grown viruses etc. Yet, I just keep researching because I hope I can find information that calms me. I feel like learning all these things has made my OCD 1000000 times worse. Instead of getting better, it just keeps getting worse. I wish I never took those tests! :weep: I don't know how to get through this after all this new information I have learned.

Anyone familiar with science, please help me with this. What are synthetic peptides and how are they made? Also, what is "recombinant protein a" and how is that made?

MyNameIsTerry

20-05-16, 05:49

All "recombinant protein" means is that it is a protein produced by making recombinant DNA which is just the joining of at least 2 strands of DNA whether from nature or synthetically made. Recombinant protein a is just one made from E.coli. IT's produces by several strains of Staphylococcus aureus.

A useful snippet for you:

CDC laboratory studies have shown that drying HIV reduces the viral amounts by 90 to 99 percent within several hours.

So, if that is the case how could it survive in that kit until it reached you? Bare in mind they "grow" HIV in enormous quantities in labs, far more than can be found in a nature. To get it into a kit it would not only need to be preserved in such a way that it isn't destroyed but also in a volume large enough.

A peptide is just a chain of amino acids. When they form long chains, they become proteins. It's obviously more in-depth than that, but we would be getting into terms probably all of us won't understand...me included!

So, a synthetic peptide is just one synthesised.

"Could someone evil at the manufacturers have tampered with the test and placed a virus in it and what if the virus is a strain that is not detectable by tests?"

I would highly doubt it. Even IF someone did do something like this, why would they do it for one test only? Someone who set out to do that would aim it at as many people as possible and so it would very quickly become a big news story as it would be a very serious criminal offence.

How would they "manufacture" a strain undetectable? The above applied to one individual, to then consider the manufacture of a new strain of something would be moving into movie territory. If some terrorist group wanted to poison us, they wouldn't pick a virus that takes many years to do anything at all.

The companies that make these kits will have stringent quality procedures. They may explain some of their protocols but they won't explain it in an E2E fashion so you will never know exactly how it passes through their processes. However, they are expected to justify this to regulatory bodies and I would imagine have been subject to initial & continual health & safety inspections. Taking a product to market of this nature will mean very rigorous testing and a licence being granted. That means regulatory people being involved.

Needsupport

20-05-16, 23:03

MyNameIsTerry

21-05-16, 09:12

Wow Terry, thank you so much! It really helps to read all that. I have been struggling to understand the information although have looked it up. I have a few questions however.

"All "recombinant protein" means is that it is a protein produced by making recombinant DNA which is just the joining of at least 2 strands of DNA whether from nature or synthetically made. Recombinant protein a is just one made from E.coli. IT's produces by several strains of Staphylococcus aureus. "

So Recombinant Protein A is NOT made from the hiv virus??

No. It's made from bacteria. Bare in mind that Staphylococcus aureus can be found already in the human body. It can cause infections and is treated with antibiotics. Protein A is used a lot, it binds to antibodies.

"CDC laboratory studies have shown that drying HIV reduces the viral amounts by 90 to 99 percent within several hours.

So, if that is the case how could it survive in that kit until it reached you? Bare in mind they "grow" HIV in enormous quantities in labs, far more than can be found in a nature. To get it into a kit it would not only need to be preserved in such a way that it isn't destroyed but also in a volume large enough."

Right, my fear IS about the viruses grown in labs though. Would a "large quantity" be able to fit in the test? Particularly the test pad? My concern is that some "lab grown virus" could have been on my test. :weep: I called the pharmacy to check when they got the tests in (I got my test 2 months ago but I wanted to see for how long it had been sitting on the shelf- that way I could calculate IF someone had done anything to the test, how much time would it have had to dry etc.) They told me that the tests sell frequently and that they were only able to tell me when they got their last tests, which was a few days ago. So that didn't help. But I know that prior to buying the test kit, I called them a week before and they said they had about 4. Then a week after I went and bought a test. So my fear would be "what if the test got there shortly before I bought it or something?" UGHHHH. Obviously, no way to know the answer to that..

But don't forget that their is storage, logistics to get it to pharmacy distribution centres, etc before it even gets anywhere near the places we buy them from. This is going to be much longer than those few days. They won't be making it to order, it will be getting made in huge batches and stored until needing to be shipped.

So, that does answer that one. The CDC studies show 90-99% in several hours. Now imagine added potentially days to weeks on top of that. And remember that HIV doesn't survive well at all hence needing huge quantities. It survives when placed inside a host body where it can multiply but outside the body is very quickly dies...hence why no one is ever going to catch it off a toilet seat like when there was all the panic over that in the 80's.

"A peptide is just a chain of amino acids. When they form long chains, they become proteins. It's obviously more in-depth than that, but we would be getting into terms probably all of us won't understand...me included!

So, a synthetic peptide is just one synthesised."

Please explain. This is what is on the test that has me wondering.
HIV 1 & 2 Peptides/Panel Members (Defibrinated), GP-36 Peptide [Biotinylated](N/A), GP-41 Peptide
[Biotinylated](N/A

What are these and how are they made??? Are they derived from an actual hiv virus or are they created from scratch without the need to grow a virus at all? On another of their page, it does say "synthetic peptides". Knowing that they create them and don't need a live virus for it would eliminate my fear of "a live virus accidentally getting on the test". It won't eliminate ALL my fears regarding the test but I have so many fears at this point that the less I get, the better.

Bare in mind that Oraquick was approved by your FDA. So, it has been checked by experts in this field. It is safe.

Now isn't the stick you insert in your mouth dry? And then you put it in a test tube where it mixes your saliva with a solution? Now remember what the CDC said about HIV in dry conditions degrading. How would it be possible that even IF HIV was put onto that swab, it could still be alive potentially weeks later? It can't be.

Now consider the company making it. They have been around for 2 decades doing this and not just OTC, they were making tests for use in labs. The Oraquick test matches tests used by healthcare professionals. They will also be testing what they produce as it contains a range of chemicals in very specific proportions so they need to ensure it is safe for a person to use.

GP-36 Peptide - this reacts to HIV2 antigens.
GP-41 Peptide - this reacts to HIV1 antigens.

Bare in mind an antigen is a molecule of a virus or bacteria, a very specific one, that an antibody looks for.

Peptides make up proteins. An antibody is a specific type of protein. We tend to assume what protein is because of our understanding of diet but proteins are very complicated.

So, what is happening is that solution in the tube contains a solution to detect "antibodies". You apply the swab to your gums which allows it to pick up your saliva. This saliva would contain HIV "antibodies" if you had HIV. So, you put it in the tube and if the solution in that tube detects "antibodies", it's a positive result. If they do nothing, there are none of these "antibodies" in your saliva so you also can't have the "antigen" either. This is also why you get those GP-36 & GP-41 peptides in there, because they are specific to recognise the 2 different forms of HIV.

I'm not sure what the "panel" part is. I've looked the other stuff up to understand the connections but some of this needs an expert.

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 08:44 ----------

Here are some useful CBT resources aimed at OCD, HA, perfectionism, etc. I really think you should spend time looking at these, rather than sourcing information on these tests now. This link is the main one to the worksheets for everything but if you scroll down there are workbook categories e.g. perfectionism:

http://psychology.tools/download-therapy-worksheets.html

Also, here are the individual webpages for the OCD and HA areas that include tools and workbooks:

http://psychology.tools/obsessive-compulsive-disorder.html
http://psychology.tools/health-anxiety.html

I suggest you read those and start to work on what they tell you.

Right now you are spiralling into the obsession. You have looked for information, an important part of countering, but there comes a point when this becomes part of the obsession and ends up becoming a compulsion of it's own.

Needsupport

21-05-16, 19:22

Terry, I cannot express enough how much your kindness is appreciated. Thank you! You have eased my mind in particular to recombinant protein A. The reason I do research is to hopefully find information that would help so I can eliminate *some* of the obsessions. The issue is that it is hard to find information regarding my questions & I feel stuck unless I know. More often than not however, I find stuff that causes me to spiral out of control rather than soothe me.

MyNameIsTerry

23-05-16, 06:00

Yes, I can understand the need for research. It is useful in constructing a counterargument but you do need to be wary it has traps too. Obsessively researching is a step too far. I've been through that myself and had to stop it. I used to look for supplements to try for my anxiety and spend weeks to months researching them and never got anywhere. It's definitely linked to our Cognitive Distortions and perfectionism.

I think part of the catastrophizing is because you have dug up a load of information that has scared you yet because you (and all of us) lack the scientific training to interpret some of this stuff, you are panicking over things that may mean nothing too.

I can't seem to find out about "panel members" so if you have seen something, link it, and maybe someone outside your tunnel vision's current focus can say what it means?

But I seriously doubt there is any connection between HIV and a HIV antibody test since all that test is doing is searching for the antibody itself, and that's why these tests can produce a false negative if you don't conduct them after that window they specify because they don't rely on detecting HIV, or it's antigen, but merely your body's response in producing the antibody to it.

The synthetics are just "constructed" in a lab. That doesn't mean they need to be extracted from HIV. They only likely did that when they researched making the test and once they knew the links, they produce these in isolation from the virus itself.

Needsupport

24-05-16, 02:21

Nicholebear

24-05-16, 02:29

This is a spiral if I ever saw one. Seek professional help immediately. You can't keep living like this...there's tons of resources available to you in the US. You could have a Xanax prescription by tomorrow afternoon.

ServerError

24-05-16, 02:34

Needsupport

24-05-16, 02:42

Xanax did nothing for me other than make me sleepy and drowsy. It is difficult to cope with because I was under the impression this was a SAFE test to take when I took 3 of them and now I am finding out that there any viruses on the test??? Although inactive, it makes me feel horrible because mistakes could happen during the inactivation. Even the website states clearly, that despite being inactive, they cannot fully guarantee that so the material should be treated as potentially infectious. Granted, the material is supposed to go inside the test stick and not on the pad used to swab your gums, but nonetheless, it has increased my anxiety. WHY can't I find things that calm my anxiety when I do research???

Also, with the exception of a few, it is pretty clear to me that most people on the "health anxiety" section of this forum do not have OCD and do not understand it.

Nicholebear

24-05-16, 02:49

ServerError

24-05-16, 02:57

For what it's worth, I asked simply 'why' not because I don't know the answer. I just wanted to see what answer you would give. And when you say it's apparent nobody here has OCD, you actually acknowledge your problem for all to see. OCD in this form is not something I can relate to, you're right. But I can relate to the need for treatment. The one thing I don't condone is self pity, no matter what condition within the anxiety spectrum you have. Recovery does not lie in self pity.

You can't find reassurance by researching because you research. And because you have OCD and are deeply obsessed about this.

I hope you'll seek the help you need because this is so sad to see.

Needsupport

24-05-16, 03:08

Nicholebear

24-05-16, 03:17

It isn't about "self-pity". Wow! I am in a very bad place right now and I researched these things in hopes of finding that NO VIRUSES of any sort were on the test- so that indeed I could let it go. Also, yes I know I have OCD and that my fears and the way I'm reacting seems "irrational" to someone who isn't in my shoes, but it is very real to me and I can't just "take meds" or snap out of it. I didn't come here to get attacked, but to get help, which many have given so kindly.

No, you researched these things because you have a mental illness that needs to be treated. And from what it seems nothing anyone has said here has actually helped you. You've gone from thinking the dentist infected you with HIV to a Walgreens HIV test kit infecting you. And as people keep trying to reassure you, you continue to find some new aspect to obsess over. Like I said, nothing anyone here can say will convince you otherwise. Please seek treatment for your OCD.

Fishmanpa

24-05-16, 04:02

I didn't come here to get attacked, but to get help, which many have given so kindly.

But it's not helping. We're all watching you spiral deeper and deeper into this truly irrational fear. Yes, people are offering help but it's apparent you're just not in a place to receive it. Many here have seen it happen to others time and time again. The best advice has been to seek professional help. The link I gave you can help you find that help. Also, as I've said, every state in the US has a mental health hotline where you can speak to a real person who can listen and offer help in referring you. I urge you to do so. Use Google to help yourself as opposed to burying yourself deeper.

This is an internet forum. While it's comforting to know you're not alone and writing can be cathartic, it's not a replacement for real life professional help which many here see you so desperately need.

I hope you find some peace.

Positive thoughts

MyNameIsTerry

24-05-16, 04:38

Also, with the exception of a few, it is pretty clear to me that most people on the "health anxiety" section of this forum do not have OCD and do not understand it.

That's why we have an OCD board. When you post on the HA board you will be posting alongside people who suffer from GAD and Somatoform Disorders too. These disorders are different so generic advice like "avoid Google" isn't always valid as not everyone with a health concern is affected by Google.

There are plenty of people on the HA board with OCD from what I've seen, but not so much regular posters, some just passing through NMP.

---------- Post added at 04:38 ---------- Previous post was at 04:34 ----------

For what it's worth, I asked simply 'why' not because I don't know the answer. I just wanted to see what answer you would give. And when you say it's apparent nobody here has OCD, you actually acknowledge your problem for all to see. OCD in this form is not something I can relate to, you're right. But I can relate to the need for treatment. The one thing I don't condone is self pity, no matter what condition within the anxiety spectrum you have. Recovery does not lie in self pity.

You can't find reassurance by researching because you research. And because you have OCD and are deeply obsessed about this.

I hope you'll seek the help you need because this is so sad to see.

I don't see self pity in here, I think that's wrong and unhelpful. I can see frustration though and this only makes it worse. If you are having trouble understanding OCD then the obvious answer to that is to read about it and gain understanding rather than rely on learning about it from someone struggling with theirs as that's not what they are here for.

If you spin back to the beginning, you will have seen the OP saying they have OCD for some time, they are not denying that.

hanshan

24-05-16, 04:41

I have mild OCD (but not health anxiety), and I know that it is completely irrational.

I've actually broken two knobs on my stove checking them and pushing them tight before I leave the house. "You stupid fool", I say to myself, "You've checked it twice already, it's off!" Unfortunately, anxiety beats common sense, at least temporarily. Once I get out of the house, luckily I forget about it.

Here is a link to a free self-treatment program for health anxiety made available by an agency of the West Australian government:

http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/infopax.cfm?Info_ID=53

Nicholebear

24-05-16, 04:51

I think there is an element of self pity when you use it as excuse for your behavior. Saying "well I have OCD so I can't control it." Like hello, that's the problem! It's hard to have sympathy for a person that continues to obsess over something and knows perfectly well the reason for it, yet won't seek treatment for the problem and continues to want sympathy for their obsession because they have OCD.

MyNameIsTerry

24-05-16, 04:58

[/COLOR]

I don't see self pity in here, I think that's wrong and unhelpful. I can see frustration though and this only makes it worse. If you are having trouble understanding OCD then the obvious answer to that is to read about it and gain understanding rather than rely on learning about it from someone struggling with theirs as that's not what they are here for.

If you spin back to the beginning, you will have seen the OP saying they have OCD for some time, they are not denying that.

I think there is an element of self pity when you use it as excuse for your behavior. Saying "well I have OCD so I can't control it." Like hello, that's the problem! It's hard to have sympathy for a person that continues to obsess over something and knows perfectly well the reason for it, yet won't seek treatment for the problem and continues to want sympathy for their obsession because they have OCD.[/QUOTE]

They have the option to seek professional help, they've been given what they need and it is now up to them to take that step. All we can do is provide that information and encourage, it's not worth getting frustrated over someone not taking that step. It's hardly an easy step to even take for a lot of us.

I disagree on the point of self pity. I found my OCD to be absolutely relentless at it's worst. It was all day everyday. I couldn't control that at all and it took me a lot of hard work over time to get through it. It took me YEARS! The only difference? I didn't have reassurance seeking behaviours with mine hence I didn't frustrate people in places like this. I'm quite happy to say I had no control over it because I didn't, it was far to severe for me to just stop it. It just isn't that simple and I don't see my behaviour as self pitying.

Needsupport

24-05-16, 05:09

Wow the amount of ignorance on the condition is sad. Clearly if i KNEW for sure that my thoughts were simply OCD and if I didn't have doubts, I wouldn't be here and calling places trying to find answers. I don't need sympathy, I simply need to feel safe...which I don't. Anyway, just so you know I have been to therapy and have numerous OCD books. Therapy costs $260 a session and I can't afford it. Insurance won't pay for it. I am tired of getting attacked tonight. If someone fears something and looks for information to calm themselves but instead lands upon information that frightens them or struggles to find that information and asks others to help explain, how is that self pity? I took 3 tests that I had no idea what ingredients they have and not I'm finding out stuff that is scaring me and I'm asking for reassurance because I need to feel that my thoughts are indeed irrational. Because despite knowing that I have OCD, I do not know if my fears present a real threat. It's like my brain is split in half and you are wrong, I do NOT feel that I can control this. Clearly, who wants to be on an online forum asking this stuff? I was planning my wedding one night and felt very happy and then I woke up the next morning fearing hiv and with intense urges to get tested. I am suffering enough without people being condescending and not understanding.

Nicholebear

24-05-16, 05:20

Your thoughts are all OCD. I can tell you that a person without it would have been completely satisfied with the first test and moved on from it.
As I said before, nothing here anyone has said to reassure you has worked. You've only gotten more upset. We told you that you don't have HIV. We told you that you can't get HIV from a test kit. We've told you over and over again that you don't need to worry. So what does it boil down to? You finding treatment for the cause of this. This Internet forum can't provide you with the true help you need.

MyNameIsTerry

24-05-16, 05:42

Hi Terry,
This is one of the links I found when googling "hiv panel members". http://www.hologic.com/sites/default/files/package%20inserts/500276-IFU-PI_001_01.pdf

I found a couple more and they all seem to say the same thing. I am so distressed and in disbelief that Oraquick, which states there are NO LIVE/ACTIVE VIRUSES on the test, would use panel members, which in turn are "inactivated viruses"...So, in other words there ARE viruses on the test. I don't understand why they have synthetic peptides AND panel members. This is really difficult to cope with and they do not have someone to speak with regarding this. Since Oraquick tests for both HIV 1 AND HIV 2, the panel members for Oraquick are positive for both. I'm just confused. Where exactly are these panel members placed? Why is it so hard to learn about this test? I feel very distressed.

This is the website that lists what is inside the test kit: http://www.oraquick.com/assets/base/oraquickfull/pdf/OraQuick_In-Home_HIV_Test_SDS.pdf (http://www.oraquick.com/assets/base/oraquickfull/pdf/OraQuick_In-Home_HIV_Test_SDS.pdf)

Thanks for providing this, it has shown me a couple of errors in what you are looking at.

This is a different test, not your Oraquick one, and it does include human blood whereas the Oraquick has goat blood. So, when it says that "no human source of blood" blah blah, it doesn't apply to your Oraquick at all. That test also needs heating of panel members which have to be used within 4 hours. Remember my earlier point about your CDC observing how fast lab grown HIV deteriorates?

This test you have linked is actually a lab test. In a lab, they will be using potentially infectious substances because their testing is much more proficient than any one you can buy over the counter.

I just found the FDA licencing for that test you linked and it is ONLY for use in labs and healthcare centres. It is actually a completely different form of test aimed at finding HIV because it is a nucleic acid test and you only have these through medical professionals.

So, it's irrelevant to you. Your test looks only for antibodies.

I can also see a full licencing paper by the FDA (with approval from your blood council people too) which highlights all the possible risks of the Oraquick and in several sections where they do this, it DOES NOT at any point member the possibility of infection from the test. They went into several of their facilities are performed regulatory tests to ensure they were following quality and manufacturing standards expected in medical research. Can you imagine how tight that was?!!!

Oraquick is actually a home version of the one they supply to medical professionals to perform the same test. From reading the changes made, according to the FDA and based on clinical trials, they made no changes to what the product does. So, you could go to a medical professional and have the same initial test!

---------- Post added at 05:42 ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 ----------

If someone fears something and looks for information to calm themselves but instead lands upon information that frightens them or struggles to find that information and asks others to help explain, how is that self pity? I took 3 tests that I had no idea what ingredients they have and not I'm finding out stuff that is scaring me and I'm asking for reassurance because I need to feel that my thoughts are indeed irrational.

I think the problem is that your are falling into the traps of Cognitive Distortions. You are not prepared for what you might find and such CD's are taking over because you are coming to the wrong conclusions and looking at information, that with a bit more digging, shows up what you are finding to be inaccurate when compared to your situation.

This can be the danger in people with a HA theme. They Google and find the bad things. You haven't conformed to the norm because you have been trying to find information to challenge your obsession, whereas HA people tend to Google and just zoom in on the worst scenarios. But you have unfortunately got yourself tied up in complex information that has pushed you further away from the reality.

This is why you have to be mindful of when looking for counterevidence, a known CBT strategy that works, can become an unhealthy obsession. I've been through it too.

Reassurance is normal BUT reassurance-seeking behaviour is unhealthy. It will serve to reinforce a need for it. You have to learn to eliminate this behaviour so that you can self assure yourself instead.

hanshan

24-05-16, 08:32

Modern societies are very complex, with people fulfilling specialised roles. There is a lot of trust that people in their roles are well-trained and capable.

How do I know that my bus driver isn't drunk, that my car mechanic has properly fixed my brakes, that my air-conditioner isn't spraying carcinogens over me, that my sandwich doesn't contain salmonella, that my airline pilot isn't suicidal, that my doctor understands my illness, that the people at the tooth-whitening salon aren't actually dissolving my teeth?

I don't. And even where the person involved is well-trained and capable, things still go wrong. I exercise caution, but I also trust a lot.

For me, absolute certainty is impossible, so I just go with the best that is available at the time.

pulisa

24-05-16, 08:48

And it's the living with uncertainty which is so challenging

hanshan

24-05-16, 10:41

Hi Pulisa,

It is challenging, I agree, but most people deal with these issues as they arise, and then get on with it, as best they can. The alternative is living in a perpetual state of anxiety.

People with health anxiety are seeking to control that anxiety through various strategies, such as reassurance seeking, internet searching and medical tests. They have to understand that these strategies are a part of the illness. Any relief they give is only temporary.

Fishmanpa

24-05-16, 13:21

Anyway, just so you know I have been to therapy and have numerous OCD books. Therapy costs $260 a session and I can't afford it.

All states have FREE mental health programs and will work with you to help you find an affordable therapist.... maybe even FREE based on your income (tell me what state you're in and I'll do the Googling to help you!) Heck, when I sought help for some depression and "scanxiety" after my illnesses, I called the local mental health hotline in my area. They helped me find a therapist that was in my budget and income bracket. He was only $60 a session on top of being pretty awesome! There are also FREE mental health groups you can join where you can discuss your issues and get help with real live people as opposed to names on a screen.

The level of frustration is obvious. As I said, this is an internet forum, not real life. It's apparent you need help beyond the scope that can be provided here and from professionals. We can't reach through the screen and drag you. That has to come from you. I hope you take the steps to seek it.

Positive thoughts

Needsupport

24-05-16, 20:39

Thanks for providing this, it has shown me a couple of errors in what you are looking at.

This is a different test, not your Oraquick one, and it does include human blood whereas the Oraquick has goat blood. So, when it says that "no human source of blood" blah blah, it doesn't apply to your Oraquick at all. That test also needs heating of panel members which have to be used within 4 hours. Remember my earlier point about your CDC observing how fast lab grown HIV deteriorates?

This test you have linked is actually a lab test. In a lab, they will be using potentially infectious substances because their testing is much more proficient than any one you can buy over the counter.

I just found the FDA licencing for that test you linked and it is ONLY for use in labs and healthcare centres. It is actually a completely different form of test aimed at finding HIV because it is a nucleic acid test and you only have these through medical professionals.

So, it's irrelevant to you. Your test looks only for antibodies.

I can also see a full licencing paper by the FDA (with approval from your blood council people too) which highlights all the possible risks of the Oraquick and in several sections where they do this, it DOES NOT at any point member the possibility of infection from the test. They went into several of their facilities are performed regulatory tests to ensure they were following quality and manufacturing standards expected in medical research. Can you imagine how tight that was?!!!

Oraquick is actually a home version of the one they supply to medical professionals to perform the same test. From reading the changes made, according to the FDA and based on clinical trials, they made no changes to what the product does. So, you could go to a medical professional and have the same initial test!

---------- Post added at 05:42 ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 ----------

I think the problem is that your are falling into the traps of Cognitive Distortions. You are not prepared for what you might find and such CD's are taking over because you are coming to the wrong conclusions and looking at information, that with a bit more digging, shows up what you are finding to be inaccurate when compared to your situation.

This can be the danger in people with a HA theme. They Google and find the bad things. You haven't conformed to the norm because you have been trying to find information to challenge your obsession, whereas HA people tend to Google and just zoom in on the worst scenarios. But you have unfortunately got yourself tied up in complex information that has pushed you further away from the reality.

This is why you have to be mindful of when looking for counterevidence, a known CBT strategy that works, can become an unhealthy obsession. I've been through it too.

Reassurance is normal BUT reassurance-seeking behaviour is unhealthy. It will serve to reinforce a need for it. You have to learn to eliminate this behaviour so that you can self assure yourself instead.

I understand that it is a different test and thank you for taking the time to look at the link. However, despite it being a different test, it comes down to the definition of "HIV 1/2 Panel Members". So if the definition of "panel members" is "plasma that is positive for hiv 1 and 2", then that would mean that the Oraquick test stick has actual viruses? Am I correct? Now people are attacking me left and right and I don't understand. If I took this test 3 times, don't I have a right to be informed about what the test consists of and that it is safe? In their description, not once do they mention that their test has viruses- rather they say "synthetic peptides" or "antigens" at the strip, which I think are not dangerous but VIRUSES ON THE ACTUAL TEST?? I would have never taken these tests if I knew that. And yet here I am distressed and with panic attacks and STILL I have to look all over the place to find information. In regards to counseling and therapy, I can't see just any therapist. It has to be an OCD specialist and in the past, I did not find therapy very helpful. What would help me would be to find reliable and consistent information that is reassuring that 1) the tests were accurate 2) the tests could not infect EVEN IF there were "lab grown or natural" viruses inside because they wouldn't remain infectious inside a test kit AND the test itself doesn't come with any viruses nor are the peptides and panel members derived from live viruses and 3) reusable medical equipment is sterilized and you can watch to make sure.

So in other words, I need to know that the tests I took, which I assumed were safe, are indeed safe. I need to also know that they were accurate and that I don't have to worry about sterilization when I go to the dentist.

Nicholebear

24-05-16, 20:50

Omg. No. Just stop. You need an intervention.

Lifelonganxiety!

24-05-16, 21:37

I need to know that the tests I took, which I assumed were safe, are indeed safe. - They are. To as much a degree of certainty as is humanly possible and not cost prohibitive.

I need to also know that they were accurate - They are, to the extent that any medical test can be.

That I don't have to worry about sterilization when I go to the dentist. - You don't, not beyond any reasonable expectation of medicinal hygiene. They're a lot cleaner than the fork you put in your mouth every day when eating.

Fishmanpa

24-05-16, 22:59

In regards to counseling and therapy, I can't see just any therapist. It has to be an OCD specialist and in the past, I did not find therapy very helpful.

Well, IMO, you're not going to get the help you need here unfortunately. Any attempt to reassure you has failed. We're just spinning wheels at this point I'm afraid.

Good luck and as always...

Positive thoughts

MyNameIsTerry

24-05-16, 23:06

I think you are getting tied up in the information.

The test you showed me is a controlled lab test and is from human blood plasma. So, yes it is risky BUT that is not a test a member of the public can take add it is performed in a lab.

Your tests do not specify that they contain any human blood plasma, in fact they actually state goat. There are no safety warnings on your tests about infecting risk nor have your FDA raised any. I don't believe there are any because they would have to declared to at least the FDA and I can't see that a product licenced for public use wouldn't have that warning for you to see as that's always a legal requirement with any product.

Your test only looks for antibodies, it does not look for antigens.

Your FDA have published full accuracy data from several rounds of trials. They are satisfied that it is accurate to an acceptable level. You have no choice but to accept that otherwise you can only go to a healthcare professional for a more accurate test. Remember a rapid test is NOT a diagnosis, it's too alert you to get a second mire stringent test and that's exactly what your CDC recommend.

The FDA have looked at the processes they have used in accordance with the section of the law that governs that. They are satisfied, you have no choice in that but they are responsible to higher powers for your safety remember.

I think you need to consciously draw a line under that now and work on accepting this.

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------

Omg. No. Just stop. You need an intervention.

Intervention?

Nicholebear

24-05-16, 23:19

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------

Intervention?

Definition 2657

Needsupport

24-05-16, 23:27

The FDA has not issued a warning on the test because it is not supposed to be a dangerous test. The "panel members" which are listed on the test are apparently human plasma positive for hiv 1/2. However, they are supposed to be "heat inactivated" prior to being placed on the test. Regardless, I am scared that they even have access to these viruses and that they are placed on the tests. Up until now, I thought the tests only had antigens. But because of my lack of knowledge, I do not know if the viruses on the test would pose a threat IF they weren't inactivated. Since my fears revolve around someone making a mistake or someone malicious purposely infecting the test, it is very difficult for me to find out that there is access to the viruses- that they are active- and need to be inactivated by heat. Maybe this is where someone without OCD (or without this particular ocd theme) would say "ok, there are viruses but I am just going to trust that they know what they are doing and that they are indeed inactivating them and thus pose no threat". Well, since my fears revolve around this, my mind says "What if the viruses weren't inactivated and placed on the test? What if the viruses fell from the test stick to the pad? What if they can remain infectious because the test stick is airtight? Or is it considered airtight? Could the viruses remain infectious inside the test stick and test pad?" and then I feel like in order to feel at peace, I need to know that the virus wouldn't remain infectious in the test. But of course, the answers to these questions are hard to find. And I feel confused as to whether my thoughts are irrational or if they pose a real threat, which causes tremendous anxiety.

SO IN SHORT, I have just recently learned that there ARE viruses on the test (although "inactivated" supposedly). I feared this and looked up information to find out that there weren't. So, I keep learning things that fuel my fears and that are making me worse. So now that I know that there are viruses and that there is access to the viruses, I feel that I need to know that they can't remain infectious in a test kit regardless, which I then feel the need to research but can't find info on it anyway. So yes, I am very frustrated, scared and regretful for taking the Oraquick tests.

MyNameIsTerry

24-05-16, 23:35

Definition 2657

Yes, I think I'm aware of what the word means. I was asking what intervention?

---------- Post added at 23:35 ---------- Previous post was at 23:31 ----------

The FDA has not issued a warning on the test because it is not supposed to be a dangerous test. The "panel members" which are listed on the test are apparently human plasma positive for hiv 1/2. However, they are supposed to be "heat inactivated" prior to being placed on the test. Regardless, I am scared that they even have access to these viruses and that they are placed on the tests. Up until now, I thought the tests only had antigens. But because of my lack of knowledge, I do not know if the viruses on the test would pose a threat IF they weren't inactivated. Since my fears revolve around someone making a mistake or someone malicious purposely infecting the test, it is very difficult for me to find out that there is access to the viruses- that they are active- and need to be inactivated by heat. Maybe this is where someone without OCD (or without this particular ocd theme) would say "ok, there are viruses but I am just going to trust that they know what they are doing and that they are indeed inactivating them and thus pose no threat". Well, since my fears revolve around this, my mind says "What if the viruses weren't inactivated and placed on the test? What if the viruses fell from the test stick to the pad? What if they can remain infectious because the test stick is airtight? Or is it considered airtight? Could the viruses remain infectious inside the test stick and test pad?" and then I feel like in order to feel at peace, I need to know that the virus wouldn't remain infectious in the test. But of course, the answers to these questions are hard to find. And I feel confused as to whether my thoughts are irrational or if they pose a real threat, which causes tremendous anxiety.

SO IN SHORT, I have just recently learned that there ARE viruses on the test (although "inactivated" supposedly). I feared this and looked up information to find out that there weren't. So, I keep learning things that fuel my fears and that are making me worse. So now that I know that there are viruses and that there is access to the viruses, I feel that I need to know that they can't remain infectious in a test kit regardless, which I then feel the need to research but can't find info on it anyway. So yes, I am very frustrated, scared and regretful for taking the Oraquick tests.

But that's what your FDA will do to protect the public. You have no choice but to accept that they followed the laws in place that govern health & safety in these industries. It will be very strict, it's medical research.

This is where your anxiety is winning and you need to fight it back with acceptance because some of the questions you are trying to answer, you will never get an answer to because the only people that need to know, and are trained to interpret it, do it for us.

Nicholebear

24-05-16, 23:36

Bruuuuh if you're tripping over this, I can guarantee that you have definitely had a meal prepared by someone that has HIV. People have it and are walking, breathing, sweating, all over the same things you do. HIV is not something that can be caught like a common virus. You could lick a dried bloodstain left behind by person with HIV and you still wouldn't get it. Jesus Christ.

Needsupport

24-05-16, 23:44

http://www.instablogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/oraquick_NCdWq_16638.jpg

What the test stick looks like.

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:36 ----------

Terry, that is what I am trying to do but yes, my OCD is currently winning and trying to convince me that this is not an OCD problem but a possible REAL threat, causing me tremendous anxiety.

Nichole, yes I understand that. I also understand that when it hits the air, it supposedly becomes inactive pretty soon. However, when kept in an ENCLOSED AIRTIGHT space such as a syringe it can remain infectious. Also, hiv that occurs in people and hiv that is grown in the lab are different. Hiv grown in the lab can remain infectious for longer periods of time. So, obviously I am worried about the "enclosed airtight" aspect and the "lab grown hiv" aspect. My fear is that IF there was inactive hiv inside the test kit, that it would provide an environment for the virus to remain infectious since there is no oxygen inside. I fear that it could fall from inside the test window to the test pad...or that someone maliciously could have placed in on the test pad. YES, I am aware how this sounds but it is driving me insane! And it's like in order to not worry about this, I need to know that this isn't possible. I have thought about doing a blood test but AGAIN, I am afraid if it comes back positive or it it comes back negative I would fear that the needle will have viruses. Ahhh! Feels like I can't win and I keep learning more and more things to keep the fears growing stronger and stronger.:weep:

Nicholebear

24-05-16, 23:48

If it leaked from the air tight compartment then it wouldn't be air tight and it would be exposed to oxygen and die.

Fishmanpa

24-05-16, 23:52

Ahhh! Feels like I can't win and I keep learning more and more things to keep the fears growing stronger and stronger.:weep:

And you won't win on your own because there are no guarantees in life other than the sun will rise and set.... and eventually even that may not be the case. Please get professional help. Talk to your GP about meds... do something proactive and not self harming.

Read my signature and take it to heart. I have real physical issues that can bury me six feet under. Suffice it to say you've already done that above ground. Living in fear as you're doing is truly not living.

Good luck and as always....

Positive thoughts

Needsupport

24-05-16, 23:52

If it leaked from the air tight compartment then it wouldn't be air tight and it would be exposed to oxygen and die.[COLOR="blue"]

Welllll yeah but the fear is that it would fall from the test stick to the test pad AS I am using the pad on my gums. Oh my! :blush: I hope this is just my OCD messing with me and that these thoughts are irrational.

Fishmanpa

24-05-16, 23:53

I hope this is just my OCD messing with me and that these thoughts are irrational.

That's what everyone has been saying from the start ;)

Positive thoughts

Lifelonganxiety!

24-05-16, 23:54

You have to stop Googling. You already know more about tests, labs and transmission than anyone here.

You are asking people here, or Google, for that 100% certainty when that just isn't going to happen. Everyone here has assured you that the scenarios you're speaking about might happen once in a billion times, but you will then focus on that one time it could theoretically happen.

Continued research isn't going to help. Stop doing it. Do anything you can to take your mind off the obsessive thoughts.

ServerError

24-05-16, 23:56

Needsupport

25-05-16, 00:01

Fishmanpa,
I see I have really bothered many people on this forum. I just want reassurance with facts, and I'm struggling. When I took this test, I thought it was CERTAIN that it wasn't infectious. I wasn't injecting anything and it didn't even cross my mind that the test could have viruses in it. It's just hard to come to terms with the fact that it does and that once again I just have to say "hopefully everything was done the way it was supposed to", but THIS is what I struggle with because this is what my mind feeds on.

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

ServerError,

The issue is that I wanted to hear that EVEN IF there were to be active viruses on the pad, it wouldn't be infectious. But maybe it would be, or maybe nobody knows, so I haven't heard that. And I know many people here do not understand what I am going through. I am glad for that in a way because I never want anyone else to experience this. I posted on Health Anxiety but I really have OCD with a health related theme. And yes, it is hard and people are attacking me for "not trying" when you don't know how hard I am trying.

Lifelonganxiety!

25-05-16, 00:02

You can be certain that test was not infectious. Nobody has ever gotten HIV from that test. It can not happen.

Needsupport

25-05-16, 00:05

I sure hope it isn't infectious.

ServerError

25-05-16, 00:06

You are not being attacked. You are interpreting advice you don't want to hear as an attack.

I'm afraid that the whole "people are attacking me" and "nobody here understands me" strikes me as self-pity.

People can help you with this, but who do you think has the biggest role to play in getting past this?

Needsupport

25-05-16, 00:10

MyNameIsTerry

25-05-16, 00:14

Despite being accused of being unhelpful, I'm going to chime in again anyway and ask why people are still indulging this poster's OCD. By constantly trying to reassure, to analyse the tests and to try to provide the desired answer (one that doesn't exist) you're just feeding it more and more.

I also don't believe Nicholebear needs to know exactly what kind of intervention is needed in order to be able to say that one is required. The only 'interventions' we're seeing at the moment is disregarded advice about seeking help for OCD and, even worse, constant attempts to reassure about the nature of the test that only serves to worsen the condition.

I'd be lying if I said I know what the solution is here as I don't think I've ever witnessed anything quite like this. I'm sure it's an awful experience to go through. I will say that being firm and challenging people to try to tackle the root problem does not mean that you're attacking them. I've received stern words from doctors who wouldn't indulge my irrational fears - it was hard at the time but it was what I needed.

Needsupport - just so you know, I really do sympathise, I can relate with you a degree (even if it's not much) and I want you to get past this and be okay. I just don't know what myself or anyone else on here can do for you now. As has been said, you're eating off much dirtier utensils than these tests. You live in a world of infections and microbes and general risk. The good thing about the tests you're so worried about is that so much effort and attention goes into preparing them safely and cleanly.

All I can do now is wish you all the best. I maintain m belief that you, like all of us, retain the capability to find peace.

I asked what intervention, not Nichole.

This is far from uncommon around here and predictably it starts to descend into frustration that is not needed.

There is a difference between what you are suggesting and challenging someone's thoughts. In my opinion, the OP is finding incorrect information and scaring herself more, I see it all the time in this place and I believe that it is heavily influenced by their Cognitive Distortions. Being able to take an objective view can help to challenge this, a CBT technique afterall.

I regarded judging the OP to be self pitying to be unhelpful and the result was just causing more negativity, hence why I see it as unhelpful. Since I can't see self pity, it's only going to add to the issue in my view but we don't have to agree on here. However, in order to understand the theme if you don't, there is plenty out there to read about it.

Nicholebear

25-05-16, 00:18

Well the way a couple of you guys phrased certain things certainly made me feel attacked. By getting better, I have to do what? Because clearly if I knew, I would do it. I have tried to get better by proving to myself that my fears are irrational. Heck, I thought the question "are there viruses on the test" was probably irrational, and what do I find through my research? That indeed there are viruses on the test. With my OCD, I would have never taken those tests had I known that. I do feel misunderstood and I want to get better with all my heart but everytime I try, I learn something new that shakes me and adds to my obsessions.

Dismissing attempt at OCD treatment as "not helpful" and saying one particular anti-anxiety medication just "made you sleepy" doesn't come across as you truly trying. I think you've put more effort into this HIV research binge than you've put into truly seeking help for your OCD.
Also I've been waiting for you to post ONE reply that doesn't mention the HIV test and only addresses your OCD. Every time you mention the test it drags down any chance of a breakthrough with you.

ServerError

25-05-16, 00:22

I asked what intervention, not Nichole.

This is far from uncommon around here and predictably it starts to descend into frustration that is not needed.

There is a difference between what you are suggesting and challenging someone's thoughts. In my opinion, the OP is finding incorrect information and scaring herself more, I see it all the time in this place and I believe that it is heavily influenced by their Cognitive Distortions. Being able to take an objective view can help to challenge this, a CBT technique afterall.

I regarded judging the OP to be self pitying to be unhelpful and the result was just causing more negativity, hence why I see it as unhelpful. Since I can't see self pity, it's only going to add to the issue in my view but we don't have to agree on here. However, in order to understand the theme if you don't, there is plenty out there to read about it.

Firstly, you seemed to be challenging Nichole's suggestion of an intervention. I simply said that she doesn't need to know what that intervention is in order to see that it's needed.

Secondly, this is an anxiety forum. There's loads of self-pity! Look around it. Hell, I was full of self-pity not that long ago. It's a huge barrier to improving your quality of life.

Finally, all I would say is that, as you know so much about OCD and have, I think I remember you saying, suffered from it yourself, wouldn't it be better to try and help the OP by explaining how you tackled it and what might - just might - start to improve things? Constantly talking about the tests, providing 'reassurance' and joining in with the OP's 'research' is pointless and offers no help, as testified to by this thread.

Whether you have OCD, GAD, panic disorder or just general health anxieties, you have to be prepared to help yourself to at least some degree. All I see here is the feeding of an irrational fear and attempts to find an answer that will never be forthcoming.

But yes, I probably am frustrated now. It's clear that I cannot help this poster, but I will remain an interested observer in the hope a corner is soon turned, as indeed it can be.

Nicholebear

25-05-16, 00:25

Firstly, you seemed to be challenging Nichole's suggestion of an intervention. I simply said that she doesn't need to know what that intervention is in order to see that it's needed.

Secondly, this is an anxiety forum. There's loads of self-pity! Look around it. Hell, I was full of self-pity not that long ago. It's a huge barrier to improving your quality of life.

Finally, all I would say is that, as you know so much about OCD and have, I think I remember you saying, suffered from it yourself, wouldn't it be better to try and help the OP by explaining how you tackled it and what might - just might - start to improve things? Constantly talking about the tests, providing 'reassurance' and joining in with the OP's 'research' is pointless and offers no help, as testified to by this thread.

Whether you have OCD, GAD, panic disorder or just general health anxieties, you have to be prepared to help yourself to at least some degree. All I see here is the feeding of an irrational fear and attempts to find an answer that will never be forthcoming.

But yes, I probably am frustrated now. It's clear that I cannot help this poster, but I will remain an interested observer in the hope a corner is soon turned, as indeed it can be.
YAAAAASSS lol

MyNameIsTerry

25-05-16, 00:29

Nicholebear

25-05-16, 00:35

I asked what Nichole meant by an intervention. Who exactly is going to come in and deal with this? Are we implying medical intervention, because we shouldn't.

I have been explaining how to work against this and even posted in workbooks for her to try. So, perhaps you should read the rest of the threads before implying I am enabling someone's anxiety, something I would never do as I know how counterproductive it is.

---------- Post added at 00:29 ---------- Previous post was at 00:27 ----------

This isn't a game, Nicole.

She needs SOMETHING to intervene, I don't know why you're stuck on that comment. How am I supposed to know what type of intervention is needed? I don't live with her, I don't see how she handles other situations. All I know is the information she's put out about herself on this forum, and I have reacted accordingly.

Clearly her trying to handle it herself is not working. So some outside source, whether it's her family, fiancé, or medical professional needs to step in [intervene] and help her.

And I think I can respond to others comments the way I want to. Breaking the tension with a little comic relief doesn't mean I consider this to be "a game"

MyNameIsTerry

25-05-16, 00:58

She needs SOMETHING to intervene, I don't know why you're stuck on that comment. How am I supposed to know what type of intervention is needed? I don't live with her, I don't see how she handles other situations. All I know is the information she's put out about herself on this forum, and I have reacted accordingly.

Clearly her trying to handle it herself is not working. So some outside source, whether it's her family, fiancé, or medical professional needs to step in [intervene] and help her.

And I think I can respond to others comments the way I want to. Breaking the tension with a little comic relief doesn't mean I consider this to be "a game"

Cool as long as we are not suggesting medical intervention, Nicole, because people do suggest it on here. It could be use of wording like how people say "you should be medicated" implying they are out of control when they are not.

Yeah, you can reply to who you want, when you want, like all of us. Sadly, the post was criticising my behaviour and not even factual. So, I'm bound to look at such humour in a different way.

Needsupport

25-05-16, 03:11

Wow, what in the world? This is why I need to stick to the OCD forums. Terry, you have been very kind and helpful towards me. Honestly, I thought I could post here freely and get some actual advice on whether my fears are OCD or present some real risk. Also, yes, I asked for help in interpreting the ingredients on the Oraquick test. What is so wrong with that? Thank your lucky stars that you don't have severe OCD like me and don't get on a forum making someone who is struggling feel like crap because they can't see past their thoughts and struggle to help themselves. I am very well aware that I need help and can't keep going like this but it isn't that simple. I am not dismissing therapy or meds. I am just saying how ERP (which has made me record my worst fears and listen to them for 30 mins a day & tell myself to live with anxiety and uncertainty) has not helped me. I know it is the standard treatment but I did not have a breakthrough with it and my ocd was way less severe in the past. Actually, right now my OCD is the worst it has ever been. So yes I talk about the tests because I'm terrified. I have learned things I never wanted to learn through my research. My post was to get some genuine help and support from others who understand and instead I just got "Wow, you are so mentally ill. Get help! This is so sad. I have never seen this". Why do you think I need to read that to make me feel worse? And stop attacking Terry when he has done nothing but tried to help (and he did in regards to synthetic peptides and recombinant protein a)...Thanks to him I am not worried about those. Clearly, nobody can help me with that fact that there are actual viruses on the test. I just found out about this so it has been a shock. I wasn't expecting anyone to "fix" me but to be so mean...well, I wasn't expecting that either.

hanshan

25-05-16, 06:47

MyNameIsTerry

25-05-16, 07:43

ERP is a component of CBT and it's seen as effective but for those it isn't, it's not the only thing to try because other areas of CBT can be tried too. ERP has it's place but it doesn't tackle our thoughts very well since it's based on us "passing through fear". Other methods such as Cognitive Restructuring can be just as useful.

I can understand what you are saying about needing a therapist who specialises in OCD and whilst others may not realise this, you will see charities and medical professionals saying this too. I would hope any CBT therapist could tackle any element of OCD but I've seen them saying this to some of the Pure O themes. It seems to be because they are lesser known e.g. POCD, and therapists don't understand them well. This is a bit strange to me because I feel I know them pretty well through learning about them, so why can't a trained therapist adapt to them? :shrug: Getting a CBT therapist who can understand your theme might be enough and might widen your search? A HIV contraction fear is more a health concern so if they can handle working with health worries, they should be able to handle that. And your Contamination theme is a very common one, one of the three that anyone tends to see as OCD even though studies are revealing such themes are actually less common and intrusive thought theme in the Pure O end are far more common. Not surprising since virtually every thread that appears on the OCD board seems to be about intrusive thoughts.

With this Oraquick, I can't say I understand the live vs. inactive virus element you are worrying about and it's because I found it hard to find anything about that in these tests. The test you showed (which I asked for because I was concerned what you were finding...something lots of us do across the forum for those who haven't seen us) was to check whether you were finding the right information or latching onto something irrelevant that we could talk about and exclude. In my opinion, based on that test kit you showed me, it doesn't explain the issue of "panel members, which I still don't understand and I can see that the test itself is purely for use in labs hence is allowed to contain hazardous contents. It declares it's hazardous contentsm as does the Oraquick BUT the Oraquick doesnt mention anything about the dangers you are focussing on AND, and this is the biggest AND of it - I read the licencing document from your FDA which explained everything they checked and transmission risk is NOT mentioned once in that full licence review or in any of the risk to user sections. In my opinion, thats because there is NO risk.

When you pulled up that other test to give me an example of this "panel members" issue, I noticed you latched onto the statement about how no test can be considered 100% safe. However, that test is totally different to the one you have and so cannot in any way be used for comparison. There would be no reason to panic over that at all, that test us no more relevant to your scenario as my asthma check up tests that I go for would be. They are completely different so you cannot use it to base your conclusions on. To me, this is where anxiety comes into play as we can be biased into searching out ways to validate our fears and thats what I was concerned about.

Then last night you also started to show the signs of how anxiety searches for more cracks by worrying about breaking the device and infecting yourself. They testing this device for more than you release to ensure the user was safe. This is part of catastrophizing, one of the Cognitive Distortions. I think I mentioned you need to look those up earlier?

If challenging your thoughts head on isn't working, if your anxiety is constantly high then one way that can help (which I might have already mentioned) is working indirectly by reducing it. This tends to reduce the intensity of obsessions, reduces the hold over us to perform compulsions and reduces the frequency/intensity of intrusive thoughts. Or so many of us with OCD seem to say. So, what can you do to try to keep yourself more relaxed than you are? Can you get some exercise, for instance? Distraction is a double edged sword in OCD as it can become compulsive, I learnt that one the hard way a few years back, but whilst perhaps not distractions but healthy behaviours you can engross you mind in some form of project or hobby? It can help to spend a couple of hours doing something and the anxiety fades.

Don't worry about me, I'm used to it around here. :winks: The irony is that I'm often saying the same as others, just with more detail. I seem to recall even explaining about compulsive searching and how I've been through that for those that care to go back and read the thread...

So, at this point can you see that research is not going to help any further? Can you see that unless you actually speak to the people who manufacture that test, and I mean the guys on the lines themselves, you can't get your questions answered? Can you see that you have no choice in that matter and so the strategy has to be one of acceptance? Acceptance in your FDA doing their jobs? Acceptance that they enforced the laws they quoted in their testing? Can you rationalise that the test you showed me can't be applied at all to the one you took? Can you rationalise that Oraquick is a slightly modified version of the one used by medical professionals that has been around even longer? Can you consciouly accept that your government wouldn't put you at risk of contracting HIV from a mass marketed test available OTC in your pharmacies?

MyNameIsTerry

25-05-16, 11:50

in regards to synthetic peptides and recombinant protein a)...Thanks to him I am not worried about those.

A question I have for you is how did you manage to challenge this thinking to accept that these are not a risk? Did you look into them further or accept what I told you? Baring in mind that this is just a forum of strangers, to accept what someone tells you would show you have some control over the thoughts or can challenge them?

Were all the ingredients bothering you to the same severity? If so, the fact you rationalised these ones would suggest you can do it.

Something else I wanted to ask is about the ingredients overall. You have raised concerns over a few specific ones. But there are substances in that which are also hazardous and have to be handled a certain way or measured to ensure they are within a certain tolerance. So, if those aren't bothering you, you ARE trusting the manufacturing to protect your health. Can you use this to counterevidence some of your fears?

pulisa

25-05-16, 13:08

NeedSupport, you said that you have learned things you never wanted to learn about through your research and I think that this is where your problem lies...too much information, too much language and too much "knowledge" on a subject which clearly terrifies you. The internet enables OCD/health anxiety. This thread is promoting your fears. The more questions you ask, the more frightened you become, the more widespread these questions become. At some point you have to take some control back and call a halt to this. No one says that this is easy-but you have to make a start somewhere.

Needsupport

25-05-16, 20:06

Hi Needsupport,

(1) Have you researched Health Anxiety on the internet? Can you describe the main signs of Health Anxiety as they relate to you?

(2) Have you worked through an online program to deal with Health Anxiety? I posted one at this website, but there are others and they are free:

http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/infopax.cfm?Info_ID=53

I might add to that, since you are also OCD with a health focus:

(3) In OCD, can you describe what the main signs of an obsession, as they relate to you? Can you describe compulsive behaviour, and why someone acts compulsively?

Yes, I have researched health anxiety but mostly my background is in OCD since that is what I have been diagnosed with. I have not worked through an online program but I have OCD books, including a workbook. I am very familiar with the condition and have been in therapy. I have had OCD on and off for 10 years. It used to focus on another topic and now it has latched on to Hiv.

---------- Post added at 15:02 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------

ERP is a component of CBT and it's seen as effective but for those it isn't, it's not the only thing to try because other areas of CBT can be tried too. ERP has it's place but it doesn't tackle our thoughts very well since it's based on us "passing through fear". Other methods such as Cognitive Restructuring can be just as useful.

I can understand what you are saying about needing a therapist who specialises in OCD and whilst others may not realise this, you will see charities and medical professionals saying this too. I would hope any CBT therapist could tackle any element of OCD but I've seen them saying this to some of the Pure O themes. It seems to be because they are lesser known e.g. POCD, and therapists don't understand them well. This is a bit strange to me because I feel I know them pretty well through learning about them, so why can't a trained therapist adapt to them? :shrug: Getting a CBT therapist who can understand your theme might be enough and might widen your search? A HIV contraction fear is more a health concern so if they can handle working with health worries, they should be able to handle that. And your Contamination theme is a very common one, one of the three that anyone tends to see as OCD even though studies are revealing such themes are actually less common and intrusive thought theme in the Pure O end are far more common. Not surprising since virtually every thread that appears on the OCD board seems to be about intrusive thoughts.

With this Oraquick, I can't say I understand the live vs. inactive virus element you are worrying about and it's because I found it hard to find anything about that in these tests. The test you showed (which I asked for because I was concerned what you were finding...something lots of us do across the forum for those who haven't seen us) was to check whether you were finding the right information or latching onto something irrelevant that we could talk about and exclude. In my opinion, based on that test kit you showed me, it doesn't explain the issue of "panel members, which I still don't understand and I can see that the test itself is purely for use in labs hence is allowed to contain hazardous contents. It declares it's hazardous contentsm as does the Oraquick BUT the Oraquick doesnt mention anything about the dangers you are focussing on AND, and this is the biggest AND of it - I read the licencing document from your FDA which explained everything they checked and transmission risk is NOT mentioned once in that full licence review or in any of the risk to user sections. In my opinion, thats because there is NO risk.

When you pulled up that other test to give me an example of this "panel members" issue, I noticed you latched onto the statement about how no test can be considered 100% safe. However, that test is totally different to the one you have and so cannot in any way be used for comparison. There would be no reason to panic over that at all, that test us no more relevant to your scenario as my asthma check up tests that I go for would be. They are completely different so you cannot use it to base your conclusions on. To me, this is where anxiety comes into play as we can be biased into searching out ways to validate our fears and thats what I was concerned about.

Then last night you also started to show the signs of how anxiety searches for more cracks by worrying about breaking the device and infecting yourself. They testing this device for more than you release to ensure the user was safe. This is part of catastrophizing, one of the Cognitive Distortions. I think I mentioned you need to look those up earlier?

If challenging your thoughts head on isn't working, if your anxiety is constantly high then one way that can help (which I might have already mentioned) is working indirectly by reducing it. This tends to reduce the intensity of obsessions, reduces the hold over us to perform compulsions and reduces the frequency/intensity of intrusive thoughts. Or so many of us with OCD seem to say. So, what can you do to try to keep yourself more relaxed than you are? Can you get some exercise, for instance? Distraction is a double edged sword in OCD as it can become compulsive, I learnt that one the hard way a few years back, but whilst perhaps not distractions but healthy behaviours you can engross you mind in some form of project or hobby? It can help to spend a couple of hours doing something and the anxiety fades.

Don't worry about me, I'm used to it around here. :winks: The irony is that I'm often saying the same as others, just with more detail. I seem to recall even explaining about compulsive searching and how I've been through that for those that care to go back and read the thread...

So, at this point can you see that research is not going to help any further? Can you see that unless you actually speak to the people who manufacture that test, and I mean the guys on the lines themselves, you can't get your questions answered? Can you see that you have no choice in that matter and so the strategy has to be one of acceptance? Acceptance in your FDA doing their jobs? Acceptance that they enforced the laws they quoted in their testing? Can you rationalise that the test you showed me can't be applied at all to the one you took? Can you rationalise that Oraquick is a slightly modified version of the one used by medical professionals that has been around even longer? Can you consciouly accept that your government wouldn't put you at risk of contracting HIV from a mass marketed test available OTC in your pharmacies?

Hi Terry,
I do see what you are saying about acceptance. I wish it were that easy. :blush: I have latched on to a few of the ingredients because those are the ingredients that contain virus particles in them, thus, my worry. As far as the "panel members" go, yes, I understand I showed you a different test. However, my question has been and remains "what are panel members"? From what I can see (from various google searches) is that they are "human plasma that contain the hiv virus". The virus is supposed to be inactivated by heat. This fills me with intense anxiety because I was unaware that the test stick contained any viruses. I had read about Oraquick frequently and as far as I knew, it contained HIV antigens but NOT the virus itself. So, due to my anxiety, I of course want to know if the panel members do indeed contain a virus or if "panel members" can mean different things. What is making this "search" so frustrating is that nobody seems to be able to answer it, which I don't think is okay. Oraquick has a customer service line but yet they can't help with the ingredients of the test? But I hear you about "accepting not knowing or that they may be viruses on the test and move on". However, THAT makes it hard to move on and keeps me STUCK because I think "well there's viruses on the test". Then, I feel at risk and this continues the cycle of anxiety. So then in order to ease the anxiety, I feel the need to search and ask questions to "feel safe", hoping that I will get answers that will help. Such answers would be that "panel members are antigens and that there is absolutely no virus on the test" and even more reassuring would be "even if there were viruses on the test and pad, they wouldn't be able to remain active or even if there was by some odd chance some active viruses, they wouldn't be able to infect because they were swabbed on your gums and not injected in you". However, the truth is that there would be some chance. So although a part of me tells me that I need to hope and trust that they followed protocol and that the test was fine, the other part of me feels confused and has a lot of questions. I do try other things to help distract myself but I still have these fears and thoughts follow me everywhere. Between my OCD and things I have found through research, I'm finding it very hard to get out of this. To answer your other question, I felt comfortable after reading about Recombinant Protein A because I read what you wrote and I had done some previous research. Same with the peptides. I just don't want there to be any viruses on the test. :weep:

Also, another issue is that there are many obsessions I am dealing with and I keep going around in circles. It seems that there are no answers and my only option is to accept uncertainty but that is what is making me so miserable. I notice that many people say "You don't know for certain that you won't get hit by a car when you cross the street". And you're right. I don't. But the difference is that I don't think about that, although I acknowledge that there is a chance, the chance SEEMS small in my mind. Whereas with my OCD thoughts, perhaps due to my OCD, it feels as though there are higher chances of my fears being true. Does that make sense? For instance, when I cross the street, I have confidence that I will make it to the other side. I am not living day to day with strong feelings that a car will hit me, although it may. With my OCD thoughts, living with the uncertainty, I truly feel uncertain and it is awful. It doesn't feel the same. I would not struggle as much if these fears felt as unlikely to me as getting hit by a car does.

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:02 ----------

NeedSupport, you said that you have learned things you never wanted to learn about through your research and I think that this is where your problem lies...too much information, too much language and too much "knowledge" on a subject which clearly terrifies you. The internet enables OCD/health anxiety. This thread is promoting your fears. The more questions you ask, the more frightened you become, the more widespread these questions become. At some point you have to take some control back and call a halt to this. No one says that this is easy-but you have to make a start somewhere.

Yes, I understand. However, I do wish that the research would have led to reassurance and not fears. If the test didn't have viruses inside of it, I wouldn't feel as scared. I just feel that I have fallen deeper and deeper in my obsessions and I need to get back to my life but HOW? Everytime I do something, these fears follow me. I constantly feel terrified that I may have put my life at risk from taking these tests. Do I just live terrified?? Right now it seems like that's my only option.

pulisa

25-05-16, 20:42

You are researching material which you are not trained to fully understand so "reassurance" is never an option. I'm not sure what "reassurance" means to you anyway and to what extent you would go to in order to achieve your concept of reassurance. You will know that total reassurance is impossible anyway when you are under the influence of OCD/Health anxiety.

I know that I'm not helping you now and am just causing you to ruminate further and I really don't want to make things worse for you.

hanshan

26-05-16, 06:18

Hi Needsupport,

"I have had OCD on and off for 10 years. It used to focus on another topic..."

Saying this is good, as it shows that you understand that OCD is an illness about anxiety, not about the OCD's current focus, which can shift around.

I think you also understand that compulsive behaviours such as searching for information on the internet about your focus and undergoing medical tests just either make you feel much worse or at best leave you unsatisfied. Getting reassurance from people may temporarily stop the anxiety, but only temporarily.

What can you do? If you can't find or afford a therapist, there is probably a self-help group somewhere near you. Meet with other people fighting the same anxieties. Download the health anxiety self-help materials and work through them. Unlike your web searching about your focus, they are designed to make you less anxious, not more.

Do think again about medication. It is an anxiety illness where part of the normal fear response has gone haywire - getting control over the anxiety with medication may be one step in getting better.

MyNameIsTerry

26-05-16, 07:46

As can be seen on many a thread all over this website. Those of us with more patience do try though. Hanshan is a patient man trying to get through to someone in a patient manner.

Can any of us claim to be free of negative behaviours? Nope, we're on a forum talking about them. Look how frustrating our behaviours can be to non anxious people.

Needsupport

27-05-16, 01:40

What is Exposure and Response Prevention?
It is possible that you may have heard of Cognitive Behavior Therapy (CBT) before. CBT refers to a group of similar types of therapies used by mental health therapists for treating psychological disorders, with the most important type of CBT for OCD being Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP).

The Exposure in ERP refers to exposing yourself to the thoughts, images, objects and situations that make you anxious and/or start your obsessions. While the Response Prevention part of ERP, refers to making a choice not to do a compulsive behavior once the anxiety or obsessions have been “triggered.” All of this is done under the guidance of a therapist at the beginning — though you will eventually learn to do your own ERP exercises to help manage your symptoms.

That said, this strategy of purposefully exposing yourself to things that make you anxious may not sound quite right to you. If you have OCD, you have probably tried to confront your obsessions and anxiety many times only to see your anxiety skyrocket. With ERP, the difference is that when you make the choice to confront your anxiety and obsessions you must also make a commitment to not give in and engage in the compulsive behavior. When you don’t do the compulsive behaviors, over time you will actually feel a drop in your anxiety level. This natural drop in anxiety that happens when you stay “exposed” and “prevent” the compulsive “response” is called habituation.

Another Way to Think About ERP:
Think of your anxiety as an alarm system. If an alarm goes off, what does it mean? The alarm is there to get your attention. If an intruder is trying to break into your house, the alarm goes off, wakes you up, gets you to act. To do something. To protect yourself and your family. But, what if the alarm system went off when a bird landed on the roof instead? Your body would respond to that alarm the same way it would if there were an actual threat such as an intruder.

OCD takes over your body’s alarm system, a system that should be there to protect you. But instead of only warning you of real danger, that alarm system begins to respond to any trigger (no matter how small) as an absolute, terrifying, catastrophic threat.

When your anxiety “goes off” like an alarm system, it communicates information that you are in danger, rather than “pay attention, you might be in danger.”

Unfortunately, with OCD, your brain tells you that you are in danger a lot, even in situations where you “know” that there is a very small likelihood that something bad might happen. This is one of the cruelest parts of this disorder.

Now consider that your compulsive behaviors are your attempts to keep yourself safe when that alarm goes off. But, what does that mean you are telling your brain when you engage in these behaviors? You are reinforcing the brain’s idea that you must be in danger. A bird on the roof is the same as a real intruder breaking into your home.

In other words, your compulsive behavior fuels that part of your brain that gives out these many unwarranted alarm signals. The bottom line is that in order to reduce your anxiety and your obsessions, you have to make a decision to stop the compulsive behaviors.

However, starting Exposure and Response Prevention therapy can be a difficult decision to make. It may feel like you are choosing to put yourself in danger. It is important to know that Exposure and Response Prevention changes your OCD and changes your brain. You begin to challenge and bring your alarm system (your anxiety) more in line with what is actually happening to you.

((My comments on ERP))

I have gotten a lot of negative responses on this board for "not doing much" to help myself, and how "sad" it is to see someone like me. (Thanks! That is quite helpful). I just want to say how DIFFICULT ERP is for me and living with the uncertainty when it comes to this topic. I suppose I have OCD "with poor insight" because I REALLY struggle to see the irrationality in my thoughts. Regarding this swab test, I just feel terrified that if viruses were on the pad and the pad touched my gums- is that a real risk? I mean even in the worst case scenario, what are the odds of transmission? I try and I TRY to tell myself that a lot would have to go wrong for that to be a risk but I can't shake the terrified feeling. In regards to needles etc. Well if there is infected blood inside the needle, that would be the HIGHEST risk. And dental tools- I honestly had no idea they could transmit the virus. Still very traumatized by all this. Honestly, this is traumatizing. I don't understand why people are so rude to someone who is going through so much. Therapy basically just says "deal with it"....Welll....what happens when dealing with it is ruining you????

Fishmanpa

27-05-16, 05:47

Needsupport,

I truly am sorry you're dealing with this illness. From an outside perspective as a non-sufferer, it's difficult to see someone suffering as you are and yes, it's a sad and helpless feeling knowing the words don't help and won't until you're in a place to accept them and act on your own behalf. That's the real key.... YOU. Regardless of the advice and support, it's still up to YOU to take action and help yourself.

This is an internet forum and you're conversing with people who are suffering with mental illness in various degrees from people who have deal with fairly minor issues (like myself...depression and "scanxiety") to those nearly crippled from their illness.

When you have fellow sufferers saying "get help", you should take heed. It's due to the general helpless feeling knowing nothing in this medium can truly help you. Frankly, when your thoughts are challenged, you fight back. BUT... You're aware of your OCD and are also aware of the irrationality of your thoughts. There has been some very reasonable advice on how to fight this but you're just not in a place to accept or act at this point.

I again implore you to contact your local mental health hotline. All states have them. Use the link I gave you. Explain your situation. What do you have to lose? Worst case you've tried. Best case, you get on a healing path. Look into groups where you can discuss your issues with fellow sufferers in real life.

Your perception is that what is being said is negative (I believe that's part of your illness) and not helpful but to the contrary, it's just the opposite. We all would love to see you take the advice on board and grab the dragon by the horns and make a stand. We can't do that for you... YOU can....

Frankly, your fear is irrational and I believe deep down you know this. Your illness just won't allow you to overcome it. Your dragon is hungry and you're feeding it and are not able to stop. You need help to starve it. I just don't believe that can be done in this medium.

I hope some of these words hit home and motivate you to fight back and seek professional help. I often say here that my real physical illnesses can bury me six feet under. Suffering as you are essentially is doing that to you above ground. I have to work every day on things as simple as swallowing exercises as the side effects of my cancer can eventually render me unable to swallow and eat. I have to "deal with it". I know what I have to do and it comes down to me doing it. Nothing anyone can say other than "keep up the good work" helps. You have to work every day to help prevent your illness from taking any more of your life.

Positive thoughts