View Full Version : Someone please explain what this means!
Needsupport
21-05-16, 01:58
I apologize for being annoying but as some of you may know I have OCD about hiv so I took 3 oral swab Oraquick tests. I have developed very awful anxiety about possibly somehow having gotten infected through those tests. Please help put my mind at ease by reading the components of the test and explaining what they are.
Contains: HIV 1 & 2 Peptides/Panel Members (Defibrinated), GP-36 Peptide [Biotinylated](N/A), GP-41 Peptide [Biotinylated](N/A).
I am concerned about the Hiv 1 & 2 Peptides/Panel Members and also about Recombinant Protein A. How are these made? Please someone help!
Other than cut and pasting from Google, no one has the expertise to give you a comprehensive answer.
With respect, what can anyone say to help alleviate your fears? The factual answer in that getting HIV from a stringently controlled manufactured nationally distributed product designed to test for HIV is 0% doesn't seem to help quell your fears.
Positive thoughts
MyNameIsTerry
21-05-16, 08:59
I've tried to explain what I can understand on your other thread.
What you need to remember is that the test works by you running a swab over your gums. The saliva would contain "antibodies" to the "antigen" of the virus IF you were HIV positive. This is where those numbers above come in as they are specific peptides that indicate which of the 2 forms of HIV is found.
Remember, it is synthetic. That means it is made in a lab, not taken from nature.
Recombinant Protein A has nothing to do with HIV, it is a form of bacteria (2 strains of Staphylococcus aureus combined) often found up our noses and an infection that can develop that is treated by antibiotics, often known by people as "staph" infection. It is combined from 2 forms of that bacteria and it is used in many different ways in research and production. It's harmless in this capacity.
I would now be careful about going any further with this because all that is left is understanding how they actually produce it in a lab and it won't help you deal with this. Anything they produce is extracted and purified using heavily controlled quality processes. The fact this test has been approved by your FDA as means of initial HIV diagnosis should tell us that it has been subject to stringent sign off for the licence. Whilst the FDA may not check all medical devices to the same quality, can you imagine a HIV test that didn't work...imagine the hysteria of falsely coming up positive and even worse, not correctly returning a positive in those that do have HIV. It would be off the market and a class action law suit followed by the media.
Hi Needsupport,
Ask yourself: "Even if I did get reassurance about the swab, how long would that last?"
Most health anxiety sufferers are seeking reassurance, but the reassurance is only short-lived - maybe a couple of hours in many cases. Then the health anxiety sufferer is like a drug addict looking for their next fix. Is this you?
Needsupport
21-05-16, 21:29
Other than cut and pasting from Google, no one has the expertise to give you a comprehensive answer.
With respect, what can anyone say to help alleviate your fears? The factual answer in that getting HIV from a stringently controlled manufactured nationally distributed product designed to test for HIV is 0% doesn't seem to help quell your fears.
Positive thoughts
I want to know if in order to make peptides, they need to grow a lab virus or not. I want to know what panel members are because a google search led me to "plasma that is positive for hiv1/2"- so does that mean plasma with actual viruses supposed to be inactivated? Could a mistake occur where they do not check to make sure the virus has been inactivated and leading to an active virus on the test? I want to know whether LAB CREATED viruses (not natural) can remain active and infectious inside a test kit or on a pad if mistakenly or purposely placed there. I want to know if there would be enough virus to infect through a mucous membrane such as the mouth, if a lab grown virus was on the test.
I want to be told that even a LAB GROWN virus would not remain active through all this and that it couldn't infect. I need to put these test fears to rest. :weep:
---------- Post added at 16:27 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------
I've tried to explain what I can understand on your other thread.
What you need to remember is that the test works by you running a swab over your gums. The saliva would contain "antibodies" to the "antigen" of the virus IF you were HIV positive. This is where those numbers above come in as they are specific peptides that indicate which of the 2 forms of HIV is found.
Remember, it is synthetic. That means it is made in a lab, not taken from nature.
Recombinant Protein A has nothing to do with HIV, it is a form of bacteria (2 strains of Staphylococcus aureus combined) often found up our noses and an infection that can develop that is treated by antibiotics, often known by people as "staph" infection. It is combined from 2 forms of that bacteria and it is used in many different ways in research and production. It's harmless in this capacity.
I would now be careful about going any further with this because all that is left is understanding how they actually produce it in a lab and it won't help you deal with this. Anything they produce is extracted and purified using heavily controlled quality processes. The fact this test has been approved by your FDA as means of initial HIV diagnosis should tell us that it has been subject to stringent sign off for the licence. Whilst the FDA may not check all medical devices to the same quality, can you imagine a HIV test that didn't work...imagine the hysteria of falsely coming up positive and even worse, not correctly returning a positive in those that do have HIV. It would be off the market and a class action law suit followed by the media.
Yes, I know it is made in a lab. That worries me because lab created viruses can remain active for longer periods of time and are higher in quantity. So, I am concerned about HOW they are made in the lab. How detailed are these purifying procedures? If they do need to grow a virus- how do they make SURE the virus does not get on the test or that if unfortunately the test has a virus (panel members?), how do they make SURE the virus is absolutely inactive and not dangerous?
Most importantly, it would help to know that even lab grown viruses wouldn't remain active in that test kit (whether on the pad or inside the actual stick). I know the pouch it is placed in is air tight. I mean there is some space with air in it but not a lot so I don't know. And there is a packet inside to "prevent moisture"- I remember seeing this packet in 2 tests but not 1. I also think that the pads were "dry" (I know they weren't soaking wet) but I'm afraid "what if there were some wet spots that I didn't notice, since I wasn't checking". I don't know how to cope with these awful thoughts.
---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------
Hi Needsupport,
Ask yourself: "Even if I did get reassurance about the swab, how long would that last?"
Most health anxiety sufferers are seeking reassurance, but the reassurance is only short-lived - maybe a couple of hours in many cases. Then the health anxiety sufferer is like a drug addict looking for their next fix. Is this you?
If I get reassurance based on scientific facts, it would last. The issue is that I am not getting reassurance about many things through my research, except for what Terry is telling me which has been helping calm me down a bit. Instead, when I google, I am learning more scary things that I never knew before.
If I get reassurance based on scientific facts, it would last.
The scientific facts are irrelevant. No one has ever gotten HIV from a test kit! "No One"...That's it... finito.. no "yeah but"... end of subject. :shrug: How many here still worry after medical professionals tell them they're fine and scientific medical testing proves it? Even if you were given scientific proof, your illness would just grab onto another improbable scenario to obsess over or you'd doubt the facts.
Did you ever call that mental health hotline?
Positive thoughts
Needsupport
21-05-16, 21:48
The scientific facts are irrelevant. No one has ever gotten HIV from a test kit! "No One"...That's it... finito.. no "yeah but"... end of subject. :shrug: How many here still worry after medical professionals tell them they're fine and scientific medical testing proves it? Even if you were given scientific proof, your illness would just grab onto another improbable scenario to obsess over or you'd doubt the facts.
Did you ever call that mental health hotline?
Positive thoughts
That is not scientific proof and we do not know that. I'm not asking if anyone has ever gotten infected through a test as that would be difficult to prove. Even if they did, people would not think of it so they would assume they got it some other way. Most people think they get hiv through sex when in reality there is a much higher risk of getting it from blood. But would someone who has never been tested and finds out they have it think they got it from medical negligence? No. They would assume they got it from some previous sexual encounter and even if protected, they would think the condom broke or whatever. Hiv has been qualified as an STD, which it is and yes you CAN get it through sex but scientifically, there is a much higher chance of getting it through infected blood. There are also many cases where people do not know how they got it. Because of my awful research, I have learned many things I wish I never knew. So yes, I desperately need to know that LAB GROWN viruses would not remain active on that test kit. And of course my OCD will grab onto other things, I know that but as I said I have MANY obsessions now and the less I have, the better. Yet, what do I find when I google things to reassure myself? More scary things. Why is that? If my thoughts are "irrational" wouldn't I be able to get reassurance? :shrug:
If my thoughts are "irrational" wouldn't I be able to get reassurance? :shrug:
Nope... The very definition of "irrational" is not being able to think clearly, use reason or good judgement. So regardless of any fact or evidence, as clear and concise as it may be, it will not bring you reassurance. That's part of the illness you have.
So... have you contacted anyone about your mental health? (3rd time I've asked).
Good luck and as always
Positive thoughts
Needsupport
22-05-16, 01:33
I don't know what the mental health line is or what their number is. I want to NOT be at risk. Even if someone did put a lab grown virus on the test, would I be at risk? What are panel members and how are they made/placed on the test? Same with peptides...Would a virus be able to remain active on the test pad or inside the test stick? I need to know there is no way. :scared15:
I don't know what the mental health line is or what their number is.
If you can Google everything about HIV, you can Google mental health help and hotlines. They're all over the US and every state has a help line to call. Check this (http://www.nowmentalhealth.com/) out. There's someone to listen and refer you to places and mental health professionals that can help you.
So... the ball is in your court. You can continue to suffer and live with this totally irrational fear or get the answers and help that will truly put you on the healing path. Good luck and as always...
Positive thoughts
Okay, let me tell you. You are definitely at risk. There is no scientific certainty, ever, so there is a definite chance that what everyone here is saying is wrong about HIV swabs. It's a tiny, tiny risk, but you are definitely at risk.
And if not that, there is a definite risk that you have a malignant tumour or may die from sudden cardiac death in the next few days.
These risks are small, but are definite. Similar risks apply to me and everyone else in varying degrees. Add all these risks together, and you could be in a constant state of fear, but most people are able to deal with it sensibly. Health anxiety sufferers have problems dealing with these very small but real risks.
Okay, let me tell you. You are definitely at risk. There is no scientific certainty, ever, so there is a definite chance that what everyone here is saying is wrong about HIV swabs. It's a tiny, tiny risk, but you are definitely at risk.
With respect, that is completely ridiculous! Show me proof. These are FDA approved items. How are they a risk? It's like saying you'll get HIV from a clean paper towel!
Ok...I did a little Googling myself... From Dr. Robert James Frascino, a member of the AIDS foundation and was a pioneer in AIDS research, prevention and treatment...
"You want to confirm how completely safe rapid HIV test kits are?? OK, consider it Dr. Bob certified "confirmed". They and all other HIV testing assays are 100% completely risk free. Period. End of story. Next question!"
Yep... next irrational fear?
Positive thoughts
Hi Fishmanpa,
I don't know if your tongue is in your cheek, but I personally believe there is absolutely no risk in the swabs. Australians have an odd way of saying the opposite of what they actually mean. Please visit Australia sometime and you'll quickly discover that fact, and hopefully have a great time, too (and I did mean that).
Nevertheless, what I am talking about is scientific certainty. Some philosophers have said that science cannot actually prove or state anything with certainty, but can only disprove things with certainty, and that science only progresses through the disproof of former certainties. In this context, nothing is actually 100% certain, although some things are definitely more certain than others.
As someone who doesn't have health anxiety (but other kinds), I am interested in how it works. Health anxiety sufferers seem to do incessant Google searches, often hoping to find reassuring information, but what they find makes them even more fearful. I have to ask, has a health anxiety sufferer ever been reassured and their mind put at rest by what they found on a Google search? My perception is no. (Personally, I am not a health anxiety sufferer and am almost always completely reassured by what I find on Google).
The next alternatives for the health anxiety sufferer are a doctor, hospital, or web forum, where they can get some personal reassurance. My perception again, however, is that even if they are reassured by an actual person, the reassurance is short-lived, and they are back searching Google and asking for more reassurance online within a few hours.
Hi Fishmanpa,
I don't know if your tongue is in your cheek, but I personally believe there is absolutely no risk in the swabs. Australians have an odd way of saying the opposite of what they actually mean......
Gotcha! :winks: and I totally agree!
Positive thoughts
MyNameIsTerry
22-05-16, 12:26
Hanshan is completely correct on the point of accepting the risk. Let's remember that there is no such thing as complete certainty, the OP fears an employee or criminal organisation tapering with them and that is a risk in everything in this world BUT the risk is incredibly tiny.
This is where the OP has no choice but to accept possibility and this is important. Whilst the thinking in the obsession is irrational, the search for absolute proof can be a compulsion. It is underpinned by Cognitive Distortions.
A known technique of therapists is to embrace uncertainty to dispel it. This doesn't mean it could ever happen, it's just a way to learn to accept possibility rather than keep fighting your anxiety. Fighting anxiety doesn't work. Challenging it with posituve/neutral does but acceptance is one of these strategies too and the aim is to prevent a fear reaction since that is a reinforcer.
Some people fear acting on intrusive thoughts. It is a very tiny risk again. Accepting them as a possible option that you have the power of choice over is a dispelling strategy. Do I think the people I talk to on here will act on the thoughts? No. But I can't deny possibility and neither does science.
How about go to your doctor, have him test you, and find out for sure?
---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------
I'm confused - why would HIV virus come in contact with a home test? Do they work around HIV when packaging these or something?
Needsupport
22-05-16, 22:52
If you can Google everything about HIV, you can Google mental health help and hotlines. They're all over the US and every state has a help line to call. Check this (http://www.nowmentalhealth.com/) out. There's someone to listen and refer you to places and mental health professionals that can help you.
So... the ball is in your court. You can continue to suffer and live with this totally irrational fear or get the answers and help that will truly put you on the healing path. Good luck and as always...
Positive thoughts
Thanks for the link! I see it is a matching service so it's not a free phone counseling service? Ironically, I have read many OCD books and have even had ERP therapy with an ocd specialist. My insurance doesn't cover specialists, so I had to pay, and it was expensive. I find ERP very distressing and struggle with it. I'm working on accepting that there is some possibility with everything, but it is hard.
---------- Post added at 17:50 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------
Hanshan is completely correct on the point of accepting the risk. Let's remember that there is no such thing as complete certainty, the OP fears an employee or criminal organisation tapering with them and that is a risk in everything in this world BUT the risk is incredibly tiny.
This is where the OP has no choice but to accept possibility and this is important. Whilst the thinking in the obsession is irrational, the search for absolute proof can be a compulsion. It is underpinned by Cognitive Distortions.
A known technique of therapists is to embrace uncertainty to dispel it. This doesn't mean it could ever happen, it's just a way to learn to accept possibility rather than keep fighting your anxiety. Fighting anxiety doesn't work. Challenging it with posituve/neutral does but acceptance is one of these strategies too and the aim is to prevent a fear reaction since that is a reinforcer.
Some people fear acting on intrusive thoughts. It is a very tiny risk again. Accepting them as a possible option that you have the power of choice over is a dispelling strategy. Do I think the people I talk to on here will act on the thoughts? No. But I can't deny possibility and neither does science.
Very well put Terry! I suppose the issue is that with "other" possibilities, my mind doesn't obsess over, although I recognize they are possibilities. Yet, with this my mind is stuck and perceives the threat as very real (a part of my brain at least, the other part thinks and hopes it's irrational). In a debilitating and scary manner, my OCD tries to scare me that if there is a risk, even if small, I am NOT safe and thus, I NEED to make sure there is NO RISK. So hard to deal with this honestly!
---------- Post added at 17:52 ---------- Previous post was at 17:50 ----------
How about go to your doctor, have him test you, and find out for sure?
---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------
I'm confused - why would HIV virus come in contact with a home test? Do they work around HIV when packaging these or something?
I don't know if they work around HIV when making the tests. THAT is what I have been trying to find out. Thanks to Terry, I know that Recombinant Protein A is not derived from an HIV virus but I don't know about the "synthetic peptides and panel members". A google search scared me because it stated that panel members contain plasma that is positive for hiv 1 and 2. Although, the FDA website states that there is NO ACTIVE/LIVE VIRUS on the test, I wonder if there is "inactive" virus on the test? And if so, how do they make sure it's inactive? What if a mistake happens and it's active? What if some evil person placed viruses on it with clear liquid? :unsure::unsure:
Nicholebear
22-05-16, 23:11
Sometimes in life you need to be a little risky
Needsupport
22-05-16, 23:12
Sometimes in life you need to be a little risky
????
Nicholebear
22-05-16, 23:22
I'm referencing this video lol https://youtu.be/wOLyYwp7K_I
You mentioned you had to be sure there were NO RISKS
Well guess what you take risks every day it's all apart of life.
You don't have HIV and of all the things that could infect you an HIV Test kit is literally the very very very last thing.
You're more likely to be struck by lightning than get HIV from a test kit.
Go LIVE! Breathe the air, test the waters, be human!
MyNameIsTerry
23-05-16, 05:24
How about go to your doctor, have him test you, and find out for sure?
---------- Post added at 19:22 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------
I'm confused - why would HIV virus come in contact with a home test? Do they work around HIV when packaging these or something?
You need to read the other thread which explains this. The OP has more than a HIV theme in their OCD, it has become one of Contamination combined with it. She has been questioning any use of medical equipment such as needles.
A doctor's test won't resolve an OCD theme, only provide reassurance (although if the Oraquick returns a positive, you have to then take a proper test with a healthcare professional). Whilst it would be the best way to say once and for all, the obsession will just find a weakness in that test and keep going. Remember, testing comes with a "false positive" % rate, there are criticisms of the % accuracy of these tests by professionals and the OP has raised concerns over these tests on the other thread that just feed her doubt over them - but obviously a lab test will be spot on...unless the OCD finds another little crack...which it will.
---------- Post added at 05:24 ---------- Previous post was at 05:13 ----------
I don't know if they work around HIV when making the tests. THAT is what I have been trying to find out. Thanks to Terry, I know that Recombinant Protein A is not derived from an HIV virus but I don't know about the "synthetic peptides and panel members". A google search scared me because it stated that panel members contain plasma that is positive for hiv 1 and 2. Although, the FDA website states that there is NO ACTIVE/LIVE VIRUS on the test, I wonder if there is "inactive" virus on the test? And if so, how do they make sure it's inactive? What if a mistake happens and it's active? What if some evil person placed viruses on it with clear liquid? :unsure::unsure:
They could have employees with HIV, as can many companies, but as long as that doesn't present a health & safety problem, it doesn't matter. For all I know, the doctors at my surgery could be HIV positive. It doesn't end their careers, it merely changes things so that they have to take certain precautions or are precluded from certain areas that would heighten the risk for the patient.
But I think we need to think logically about that test. It doesn't test for HIV antigens, it tests for your body reacting by producing antibodies.
If a virus was "inactive" then it would need to be altered to be active again. So, that would mean some form of interaction with an agent to change it (re-agent?).
They must have a very strict testing procedure to ensure ALL tests are accurate and safe for the patient. These tests include chemicals that can be hazardous, so they have to ensure those are within certain parameters to ensure safety. The FDA have been into these places and seen what they do to sign them off. They are scientists, we need to trust them.
You can never rule out some "evil" person tampering with anything. But you have to consider motive. Why would they? It would be a pretty pointless way to cause damage to society by infecting people with such a slow acting virus that we are getting closer to curing. For me, it would have to be someone with a serious psychiatric issue, which then brings the question of how someone like that gained access to a secure manufacturing process.
It's by FAR easier to contaminate someone's food or water sources and with much deadlier things than HIV. Yet I bet you eat & drink. This is the selective nature of an irrational thought process. And just like how 5000 of the best doctors in the world couldn't convince someone who's HA was severe enough to keep the obsession going that they do have X disease, the same applies here to any of us because whilst you can choose to rationally accept what we say (and what you have found), your subconscious won't. This will take time & effort to change.
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