Day 8 on cit

[Becky2785]

Morning nmp so today is day 8 on cit feeling today is a good day dint sleep much but feel ok morning anixety wasn't as strong when I woke up. The only thing bothering me still is the what if thoughts like what if I harm myself or what if I harm a loved one I have read up on this and it does seem to be a ocd thing making an appointment at the docs in the morning to ge title off my chest I have told my mum and my sister and they both say I haven't got it in me to do anything like that I mean I've never hurt anyone in my life. These what ifs make me sick to my stomach and more anxious but then I think there just thoughts and I seem to settle down but I still can't help but think.

If anyone else have experienced this I would really appreciate some support and info on this I feel strong enough to overcome the anixety and depression and I know I will beat this illness as I have done it twice before just the thought of harming g someone kills me plz help

Sorry for the ramble this early just needed to get it of my chest

[MyNameIsTerry]

Your GP will be aware of intrusive thoughts, studies have shown all people have them, not just those with anxiety. Whilst they are a known set of OCD themes, under the fictitious category of "Pure O" which is often misunderstood as compulsions are often just covert (mental compulsions), anyone with anxiety of any kind can experience them.

OCD is not just determined by the behaviours but by the impact on your life. Also, depression can cause intrusive thoughts so they can be classified within those mood disorders where more appropriate.

You need to remember that these thoughts are classified as "ego dystonic" which means the opposite of true beliefs, morals, deeper schemas, etc. They are literally being checked against these beliefs and your subconscious can't find they fit so sends them off to your conscious mind like saying "ok conscious mind, I've checked and can't find a match so don't know what to do with it so here is all the "data" now tell me what to do".

The irony is that the cycle relies on you reacting with fear. That ticks the box at the end of the process to reinforce it. It tells the subconscious that it did some "valid". Notice the use of the word "valid", not "correct". If you learn to respond with a positive/neutral response, you starve it off feedback since the area of the brain that looks for feedback only looks for a negative response, especially emotions, the stronger the better.

This takes time to change though as negatives are stronger in forming behaviours as they are linked to the fear response to ensure our survival.

Since you are so new to the Cit, this could be because your anxiety is increasing. By day 8 you hit the steady state of this med, where as much is going in as out of your body. This can mean it will fade as your anxiety does because you exit the side effect window.

If you want to see what we OCDers say about these thoughts and how to beat them, you want the OCD board. Nearly every thread raised on there is about them these days. Some of us have beaten them, like myself, so we can help there.

I haven't really gone into this yet because I'm wondering whether this is just Cit side effects but please be aware that these types of thoughts aim at what shocks you the most based on your morals e.g. new parents have ones about molesting their babies, teachers about violence to pupils, etc. Given those examples I bet you can see the link between love/strong morals towards the people at the centre of their intrusive thoughts, why they react with such fear due to abhorrence and why those people are the complete opposite of what the thoughts are telling them. Now apply that to yourself.

[Becky2785]

Thanks for replying terry. I have only had these thoughts for around 2/3 weeks ago the doctor gave me fluoxetine and after 9 days the thoughts started with what if I harmed myself I went back to the docs and he told me come straight of the flux and gave me cit then ever since coming off flux I've had the intrusive thoughts bouncing around my head what if I do something to myself and the worst one ever which popped into my head Thursday night was what if I harm my 7 year old son things I would never do. I am a kind hearted person never hurt anyone on purpose in my life I love both my children dearly and would never ever do anything to hurt them these thoughts are crippling me I feel I'm going mad and like the thoughts will come true I find that when I'm with my son the thoughts are not as powerful and I'm ok to be alone with him although I find myself waking in the night to check on him as my thoughts go wild that I might do something in my sleep same as when he sleeps in my bed I don't sleep atm properly anyway going out my mind with worry plz help

[MyNameIsTerry]

It's probably stimulated you and may take a bit of time to be corrected. That level of time is really very small and very connected to the Fluoxetine. The thing is with that med, it takes a very long time for it to exit your body. So, it could be still impacting on you in that way.

Did they get worse the longer you have been on Cit? Or the same or have they reduced?

Believe me, I've known violent people and they don't think like you or I. They wouldn't get anxious over thoughts like this and would be laughing/bragging about doing what they do to people...their conscience only appears when it works for them for a reduced sentence :winks:

It's good that you are not allowing it to cause avoidance. If you avoid being around him or hide the knives or any implement you fear you could use, you will only feed these thoughts. I can understands how you check on him, I used to do the same with my parents as mine centred around them a lot, but it will reinforce the thoughts as you are doing it as a response to them, a compulsion. If you had hurt someone, you would know, so this is just the anxiety trying to get a reaction.

I know you can see how this is illogical. Why would you turn into some monster now? You won't and you aren't, it's just a scary form of anxiety that is using a weak spot against you.

[Becky2785]

Well wen I came of the flux I felt bloody awful worse then I've ever felt was going to work and coming home to go straight to bed at 6 was only on them 9 days and I felt terrible the thoughts really focused on what if I harmed myself but I seemed to get over that one and then last Thursday the one about my son just keeps going back ad forth from myself to him I no its just aniexty cos wen I have a moment of feeling ok I can tell myself I would never do anything but wen I'm over thinking and get in a state I question myself I can't help it I'm trying really hard to not let them bother me. I'm at the doctors this morning to see what they say also waiting for some cbt on the NHS but seems to be taking forever

[MyNameIsTerry]

The thing with that med is that it will take weeks to come out, although it will be substantially dropping by each half life. So, there will be some overlap with the Cit. There should really be a 7 day "wash out" period when you come off Fluoxetine because of the long half life issue. Since they are the same class, there is going to be overlap in what they are doing and the Cit will more quickly get to it's steady state while the Fluoxetine is still reducing.

So, it may be a question of the longer you are coming off the old med, the more this will reduce IF you didn't have intrusive thoughts until you started on that med.

You wouldn't really be a chronic user of the old med at 9 days so it's half life as acute is 1-3 days. To get it <5% (clinical significance is 5+%) it takes about 5x it's half life. It takes 7x for 100% elimination. So, if you went straight on the Cit the next day, it's not been long enough to eliminate the old med. However, it will reduce at 50% per half life so it does reduce quite quickly.

This was a reason why I asked if the Cit had made any changes. With them being the same class of meds, despite a slightly different profile, it could be possible but I think you would know by now.

[Becky2785]

I didn't take the cit till 10 days after stopping the flux the doc told me start straight away but I didn't feel comfortable doing. that so I waited

[MyNameIsTerry]

You did the right thing there, the NHS advise a 7 day gap coming off that one but otherwise the shorter half life SSRI's can be switched the next day.

So, that's about 18+ days then now. 15 days for <5% and 21 days for 0% so you should be nearly there now with the old med.

I think the trouble with switching is that you never not what is the old, what is the new and what is you underneath! I also think that if one med has heightened your anxiety, it could take a little bit of time for your body readjust to a lower anxiety state...just like when we have a major spike that leaves us shaken for days or longer like a shock.

[Xena1971]

Hi Becky Sorry to hear you are going through a rough time I can understand totally what you are going through I have been on and off medication for over 5 years and each time the side effects were different I stuck with Cit and I'm glad I did as they do work their magic in the end!My Gp changed my meds a few years ago to Mirtazapine which made my Depression worse Then she tried me on Escitalopram which was a BIG mistake They made me VERY angry and I hated children! I was so sccared I would do something silly but like Terry said in my heart of hearts I knew I wouldn't (I love kids) Just like Flux didn't agree with you these didn't agree with me So back on the old faithfulls and here I will stay! As I adjusted to Cit I once again had many stupid thoughts going through my head I hated some of the most lovely people in work I thought I was going mad I thought I might lose my mind and harm my partner However frightening as they are they are only thoughts not actions it was just my brain getting used to Cit again as it is yours I bought I book on Amazon "A life at last" by Paul David and I found it great help It has a chapter on negative thoughts which helped me soooo much You are not alone remember they are only thoughts not actions and as Terry said they are actually the opposite of what we really believe ( thanks for that 1 Terry it really made sence and helped!) It just your body getting used to the Cit If I can help please shout I remember exectly what it was like in the early days You can and WILL get better xx

[Becky2785]

Thanks xena kind words is Wat gets me through a day with the love of my children and partner.
I've been back to the doctors today they wanted me to up to 20mg but I felt I wanted to give the a couple more weeks she also gave me propanol to keep me calm but bit anxious bout those aswell I'm scared about my thoughts so much today I'm fearing that I might do something in my sleep as I keep checking my son while he sleeps it makes me smile wen I see him there so peaceful my children are my world and I no I will get better it's just bloody getting there xx

[sunflower7]

Hang in there, I'm on day 6 and really struggling too. Meant to be going on holiday in 6 weeks with my Husband and son and I'm so scared I'm not going to be well enough to go. Your not alone xx

[Becky2785]

I've been through it twice before when I was younger I beat it then I will do it again just never had theses horrible thoughts like I have now it's the depression bit I hate the most as it's not me I'm normally a bubbly person who's love spending time with my kids now I just can't be bothered to do anything think the cit is doing its work as I'm feeling very down today and just want to cry. I hope u are well enough to go on your holiday it would be shame to miss it as it maybe what u need. Can I ask what kind of thoughts u had it make me feel better knowing it's not just me hope u don't mind xx

[sunflower7]

My mind just races a lot and can't switch off. The other night I heard my own voice in my head. I have moments where I think I'm going mad. It's horrible. Feel depressed with not much energy. Not playing with my son like I normally do. I downloaded a kindle book about anxiety called 'making friends with anxiety' I started it last night and it's good. I'm bad out and about at the moment, really panicky and paranoid. Would be so disappointed if we don't get our hol but want to be well again. I hope you feel better soon xxx

[Becky2785]

I no ill feel better soon just like u will and ull be playing with ur son again like u used to I try to keep things as normal as possible for my 2 even tho sometimes I just can't be bothered and don't want to I force myself and for a slight moment I feel myself again and then it dawns on me that I'm not myself. U will get there it just takes time and effort xxx

[Becky2785]

So whole new thought this morning which I'm actually finding funny I saw the word possessed which then I thought omg what if I'm possessed I no this is a thought and is no where near true the anixety came over me but I laughing about it now what more thoughts are going to try take over me

[MyNameIsTerry]

So whole new thought this morning which I'm actually finding funny I saw the word possessed which then I thought omg what if I'm possessed I no this is a thought and is no where near true the anixety came over me but I laughing about it now what more thoughts are going to try take over me

Excellent, Becky! :yahoo::yesyes:

So, if that thought comes again try to not let it frighten you. Laugh at it if you can, it's like stopping a panic attack before it fully hits. I found laughing at them was how I started getting rid of mine, laughter, amusement, etc. It was a sort of automatic "don't be daft" in my head and more & more they went away.

You really can get thoughts like this about anything, it's so diverse. I've spoken to people on here about possession, ghosts, aliens, deities, etc. It's not all about what exists in reality. Magical Thinking can often be found in people with OCD and this can entwine with all this and the thoughts get more bizarre.

If you can laugh at it and not spiral down the "OMG I'm losing my mind" or "am I getting some serious mental illness" track, then you are one ahead of some people there.

---------- Post added at 07:53 ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 ----------


Hi Becky Sorry to hear you are going through a rough time I can understand totally what you are going through I have been on and off medication for over 5 years and each time the side effects were different I stuck with Cit and I'm glad I did as they do work their magic in the end!My Gp changed my meds a few years ago to Mirtazapine which made my Depression worse Then she tried me on Escitalopram which was a BIG mistake They made me VERY angry and I hated children! I was so sccared I would do something silly but like Terry said in my heart of hearts I knew I wouldn't (I love kids) Just like Flux didn't agree with you these didn't agree with me So back on the old faithfulls and here I will stay! As I adjusted to Cit I once again had many stupid thoughts going through my head I hated some of the most lovely people in work I thought I was going mad I thought I might lose my mind and harm my partner However frightening as they are they are only thoughts not actions it was just my brain getting used to Cit again as it is yours I bought I book on Amazon "A life at last" by Paul David and I found it great help It has a chapter on negative thoughts which helped me soooo much You are not alone remember they are only thoughts not actions and as Terry said they are actually the opposite of what we really believe ( thanks for that 1 Terry it really made sence and helped!) It just your body getting used to the Cit If I can help please shout I remember exectly what it was like in the early days You can and WILL get better xx

Thanks Xena. If it;s of any use, thats exactly how they are explained on Wiki with the relevant scientific reference so thats how the pros see them too. I've seen it said on OCD charity websites by the charities in their articles and on an excellent site for OCD articles by a psychologist in the US called Steve Seay and he says exactly the same.

Something he said that stuck in my mind was how patients at his clinic (he treats OCD) with violent intrusive thoughts were often some of the nicest people he has met. He goes on to add the point "perhaps that's telling us something?" I took this to mean that your OCD seeks out what you fear the most, what will shock you to your core. This makes total sense to me because I've spoken to my fair share of Pure O sufferers around here and you can see how their thoughts are totally the opposite e.g. parents who love their children to bits feeling disgusted over thoughts or abuse, teachers and youth workers.

[sunflower7]

I'm just trying to think that if I was going mad then I wouldn't be worrying about it if you know what I mean? You would think what you are thinking is totally normal and not be panicking about it x

[MyNameIsTerry]

Thats absolultely the right way to look at it, sunflower. Thats exactly what they say on medical websites and I've even read that in leaflets I picked up at an outpatient facility that actually treats patients with more serious mental health problems e.g. schizophrenia, bipolar, etc. A couple of the guys on here know people with more serious issues like this and say exactly the same, the person believes it totally and it was frightening to witness.

I had loads of racing thoughts earlier on. It just doesn't seem to switch off. You will find this just fades as you are more naturally less anxious. I can remember the sounds issues, the constant pinging thoughts and questions. It's draining.

[sunflower7]

I have moments where I think it's all going to be ok then the next minute I will freak out and think I'm going mad. It really is awful sometimes. I do the nursery run with my son and am struggling at the moment. I'm on day 8 so hope it improves soon as my anxiety and panic attacks seem to be 24/7 at the moment.

[Becky2785]

I'm on day 10 today. Your right sunflower I had a moment of panic when I saw the word and then I said to myself oh God what if I'm possessed I no this is a silly thought find myself talking to myself saying really becky this is just silly then laugh to myself I'm thinking the more I overcome it the stronger the thoughts will get I mean really possessed. I've always been scared of everything I'm to nice and wouldn't hurt a fly I should have a welcome sign on my forehead. I've just got on with my morning took my son to breakfast club and now of to work. I will probably think about this most of the day but tomorrow I'm sure something else will pop into my head xx

[MyNameIsTerry]

The physical symptoms were always the worst for me when I start meds. The agitation on the latest one and adrenaline rushes was all new and very unpleasant. It's one of the ironies of anxiety in that we tend to be quite focussed on ourselves and it just makes all these symptoms & side effects feel even worse. It's hard escaping that but you can do it. I think when you start to feel the changes, you finally accept that you can change this. I felt totally trapped & lost at the worst of it and I was like that for quite some months.

All you can do is take it hour by hour, day by day when it is like this. Anything else is too overwhelming.

The more you overcome those thoughts, Becky, the more you get break free of them. I often think of anxiety as a person of it's own inside fighting against us and naturally it is trying to survive too and throws all these doubts at us to save itself, to give itself meaning. I've never read The Chimp Paradox but that talks about the "inner chimp" and how it is very emotional and throws paddies to get what it wants. It sounds an interesting read.

[Becky2785]

Thanks terry everything u say makes sense I no I can overcome the thoughts a few years ago I overcome anixety I thought I had a brain tumor for months and would go to the doctors every other day and even to hospital at midnight once. I do believe that because I overcome those thoughts that now these thoughts are stronger and trying to make me give in to them but I'm not I can do this I tell myself numerous times a day that I can. It is hard but.like this morning g with the possessed thought I laughed it off I mean it's still in the back of my mind I no its just a thought and doesn't mean I am silly Wat the mind does its a very powerful thing

[sunflower7]

I'm on day 8 and feel as if my anxiety and panic are worse. I'm so up and down and in a constant state of derealisation which is making things worse. I'm trying to carry on for my Husband and young son. Please can anyone tell me if its normal for the anxiety to be as bad/worse on day 8? I'm getting sweaty hands and feet/racing heart/palpitations/paranoid/clenching my jaw/always on edge. I was feeling like this before taking the tablets but they seem to be making the problems worse or at least more aware of them. I don't know what to do about taking them anymore. I'm so scared I have an adrenal tumour as I have all the symptoms. Just done a 24hr urine test which I had to do for 3 days and I don't know when I will get the results plus waiting for a 48hr heart monitor. Can anxiety make me feel this bad? Even wake up at night with my face flushing, heart beating and blood pressure is always high.

[Becky2785]

This is all normal sunflower the side effects can last upto 2 weeks maybe longer I no its not nice think I would rather have those sid effects than all the intrusive thoughts I'm getting at least I no where I am with those u can do this take 1 day at a time have u read the citalapram survival guide I've read loads and still look back on it now it's very helpful xx

[sunflower7]

Thanks for your reassurance. I will look at the guide again. I know the thoughts are awful for you. Try and keep yourself busy if you can. Even reading a book or something. I know that's impossible sometimes but keep going x

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:34 ----------

I'm so scared with all these tests :weep:

[Becky2785]

We have this forum to keep us going. It's helped me over the past 2 weeks knowing I'm not the only one going through it �� keep smiling it will get better xxx

[sunflower7]

Thank you, you too x

[Becky2785]

I keep thinking I. Going mad and having the thought about me having schizophrenia i no this is silly and I do laugh about it when I can but still the horrible thoughts is there if I did then surely I wouldn't fear the thought I'm reading a book on anxiety and it's a great help telling me to just let the thoughts be there I'm really trying but wen the thoughts enter for a few moments I fear them then wen I come round I no there silly any one else feel the same need reassurance plz

[Mojo61]

Becky, I have a link to some free Claire Weekes audio tapes but I don't think we are allowed to post links on the forum. If you want to message me I can share the link with you. I found them very relaxing and reassuring. x

[Becky2785]

Yes plz mojo I would be grateful thankyou I'm no I'm not going mad or crazy just the anixety in me xx

[sunflower7]

Mojo61 Please can you PM me the link too? Thankyou x

[Mojo61]

No you definitely aren't going crazy Becky, it is just the heightened anxiety from the citalopram start up hun. It is horrible, but I promise you it will go in time. x

---------- Post added at 10:11 ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 ----------


Mojo61 Please can you PM me the link too? Thankyou x

Of course :D

[sunflower7]

Thank you x

[Andy1718]

Hang in there Becky. I am only on day 6 and it's not great. Sweating hands, adrenaline arms, thought after thought, can't sleep. But everyone has said it does get better so just hanging on to that thought. Trying to keep busy but so exhausted. We can all pull this together!

[Becky2785]

I'm ok on the cit atm sleeping a little better only get anxious when I have these thoughts but trying g to just let them be there i no I'm not crazy or mad but when anxiety get hold it hard