Food for thought

[Noivous]

I just heard about this guy today his name is Robert Whitaker. who wrote a book called anatomy of an epidemic I cut and pasted from his website below. it's an interesting Theory.



About the Book

Anatomy of an Epidemic investigates a medical mystery: Why has the number of adults and children disabled by mental illness skyrocketed over the past fifty years? There are now more than four million people in the United States who receive a government disability check because of a mental illness, and the number continues to soar. Every day, 850 adults and 250 children with a mental illness are added to the government disability rolls. What is going on?

*

The Mystery

The modern era of psychiatry is usually said to have begun with the introduction of Thorazine into asylum medicine in 1955. This kicked off a “psychopharmacological revolution,” or so our society is told, with psychiatry discovering effective drugs for mental disorders of all kinds. In 1988, the first of the “second-generation” psychiatric drugs--Prozac--was introduced, and these new drugs were said to represent another therapeutic advance. Yet, even as this “psychopharmacological revolution” has unfolded over the past 50 years, the number of people disabled by mental illness has soared.

*

In 1955, *there were 355,000 adults in state and county mental hospitals with a psychiatric diagnosis. During the *next three decades (the era of the first generation psychiaric drugs), the number of disabled mentally ill rose to 1.25 million. Prozac arrived on the market in 1988, and during the next 20 years, the number of disabled mentally ill grew to more than four million adults (in 2007.) Finally, the prescribing of psychiatric medications to children and adolescents took off during this period (1987 to 2007), and as this medical practice took hold, the number of youth in America receiving a government disability check because of a mental illness leapt from 16,200 in 1987 to 561,569 in 2007 (a 35-fold increase.)

*

The Investigation

The astonishing increase in the disability numbers during the past fifty years raises an obvious question: Could the widespread use of psychiatric medications--for one reason or another--be fueling this epidemic?Anatomy of an Epidemic*investigates that question, and it does so by focusing on the long-term outcome studies in the research literature. Do the studies tell of a paradigm of care that helps people get well and stay well over the long term? Or do they tell of a paradigm of care that increases the likelihood that people diagnosed with mental disorders will become chronically ill?

*

The Documents

This website is designed to provide readers of*Anatomy of an Epidemicwith access to the key studies reviewed in the book. (See documen

[Shazamataz]

Interesting. Personally I believe it was the medication earlier in the year that made me so unwell (sertraline/citalopram). Since a bad experience on those my anxiety is worse than it's ever been in my 45 years. Am almost completely debilitated by it.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Medication can definitely lead to greater problem in my experience, my whole OCD started up from Duloxetine. Citalopram before that was nothing like this. I know others on here with the same experience of OCD appearing too who say the same.

But the flaw in the argument is that until we have mental health problems we don't start on this meds, therefore they can be an influencing factor but not a true route cause.

Also, we are in modern times where more people here about it and talk about. Do we for a minute think PTSD only existed since 1978? Prior to that there was Gross Stress Reaction from 1952. We had a world war before then and many wars throughout history not to mention how hard life was and the fact there were places that mentally ill people were "placed".

So, we only have figures after a certain point for something that would have existed going back much farther. In this respect, we can't blame everything on modern life (as many "gurus" often suggest) because before we had our "modern world" we had devastating wars and great hardship...you can't tell me people didn't suffer mentally then either. You just didn't talk about it because it was weak to do so.

But at the same time, the modern pace of life and information overload must be a significant factor? I don't mean Dr Google, I mean constant never ending non physical garbage we deal with like social media, email, our electronic work that has us rotting away at desks instead of being on our feet, etc. The greater accessibility of Dr Google has made it worse as well but before this we had medical encyclopaedias and if you watch sit coms like One Foot In The Grave, which was before all this, you can see Victor Meldrew reaching for the book due to some swollen glands or funny coloured skin patches to diagnose himself with all the stuff we see on the HA board. He wife would shout at him to put the book down, he was on Valium a lot and hated hospitals. Sound familiar?

[pulisa]

Such a lot is still unknown about psychotropic drugs and how they work/don't work with anxiety/depression. In my opinion they are used like broad spectrum antibiotics-we don't know how they work but by trial and error we may be able to get it right eventually through a process of elimination. I'm sure in years to come there will be some sort of progress but I think these meds will always be controversial.

[Noivous]

I agree Terry we had issues before the meds but might those issues have run their course and do you think the meds may have prolonged and/or excasserbated the problem. Drug companies like nothing more than to get someone to take their products for life. Patient be damned.

[Fishmanpa]

I believe that the mental issues we deal with today have been always with us. From anxiety to depression to schizophrenia etc.

Just the fact that the population has increased is a large factor in this as well as increased knowledge, classification and diagnosis of mental illnesses.

In 1955, the world population was approx. 2.7 billion. We've increased that more than 2 fold!

Granted, the use of psychotropics have created essentially a medicated society. Again, I believe these illnesses have been with us since the dawn of time. How they've manifested themselves as well how they've been treated is still evolving. Think of where we'd be if these drugs didn't exist. Would we still be using shock therapy, lobotomies and other archaic and cruel treatments? While it's true that there's been a large increase in medicated patients and those on disability, something to also consider is the large decrease in institutionalized patients.

Positive thoughts

[Noivous]

Actually I believe shock therapy is still in use today. I'd like to see the numbers on suicide rates of people on psychological drugs as to those not medicated.

N.

[Fishmanpa]

Actually I believe shock therapy is still in use today. I'd like to see the numers on suicide rates of people on psychological drugs as to those not medicated.

N.

Ahhh true...Shock therapy is still being used in extreme cases... didn't know that.... still a cruel treatment.

As far as numbers. It would be interesting to see but numbers may be skewed due to undiagnosed mental illnesses and other factors.

Positive thoughts

[pulisa]

Actually I believe shock therapy is still in use today. I'd like to see the numers on suicide rates of people on psychological drugs as to those not medicated.

N.

Of course this will never be revealed as the drugs companies will hush this up the minute this ugly head is reared..

[Carnation]

I know a couple of people that had shock treatment, who wished they hadn't and it did not cure them. :( Just the thought of that scares the hell out of me! :scared15:

[pulisa]

I think the memory loss resulting from shock treatment is very frightening. It does seem a barbaric way to treat people but I suppose you agree to anything when you are vulnerable and being advised by psychiatrists who can't offer any other form of help. It's not something I would consent to though no matter how bad I was.

[dally]

This topic scares me. I have struggled with not being too scared to take meds for anxiety, panic agoraphobia,. Yet I'm so desperate for some relief from my symptoms or even a 'cure'.

My fear is continually reinforced when I read of people who are negatively affected by taking drugs that should've helped them.

[Shazamataz]

Actually I believe shock therapy is still in use today. I'd like to see the numbers on suicide rates of people on psychological drugs as to those not medicated.

N.

The problem with this is that people who take these drugs will be people who already have mental health issues so it would be impossible to establish if the drugs are the cause or the illness itself.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Such a lot is still unknown about psychotropic drugs and how they work/don't work with anxiety/depression. In my opinion they are used like broad spectrum antibiotics-we don't know how they work but by trial and error we may be able to get it right eventually through a process of elimination. I'm sure in years to come there will be some sort of progress but I think these meds will always be controversial.

Yes, I agree with you. They still can't explain the exact method of action of these meds and studies of certain ones have been agreed and then backtracked on due to new research. It hardly inspires much confidence.

SNRI's are a good example to me. How on earth does giving people more adrenaline help in someone who has too much adrenaline already? It makes no sense to me, but they do work for some.

It's certainly all about trial & error. We have liver enzyme testing that can be used to show if someone will have a bad reaction to meds but we don't use it so have to take the risk. Liver enzymes even differ by where you live in the world so I wonder whether they consider that at a local level in areas that may be affected?

---------- Post added at 05:33 ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 ----------


I agree Terry we had issues before the meds but might those issues have run their course and do you think the meds may have prolonged and/or excasserbated the problem. Drug companies like nothing more than to get someone to take their products for life. Patient be damned.

Well over here we have the NHS who should be protecting us but in a world of corrupt public officials, it's hardly much a reach to think drug companies have influence over them to get their contracts. So, we have our own government depts. involved too in this gravy train.

I think it will prolong disorders in many cases. Look how GP's just dump people on meds and leave them like that for years. What attempt at recovery is made other than writing a prescription and the patient finding their own way out? Those that don't, stay on meds.

They do exacerbate our conditions too. Look how some people have to switch from med to med to find something that works. I struggle starting meds due to side effects. So, far I have tried two and each time my anxiety has been made much worse so that I've spent months clawing my way back to where I was before them. With the latest one, things were much worse because of the new OCD and it was years...and I see myself as a long way off yet.

Another issue that springs to mind is Tardive Dysphoria. Don't get that mixed up with the movement disorders of similar names (these are not connected, and are scary disorders to people) because this one is literally the new "antidepressant derived depression". I've seen some interesting research on this, specific meds were even quoted, and it mentioned how it was being seen in patients treated who presented with anxiety disorder and no depression.

I know my current med has caused me a lot of mood swings, something that went on for years and was only resolved by high strength Omega 3! My mood was getting low at times prior to starting the med but it certainly did nothing for my mood despite being licenced for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD). :doh:

I expect this form of depression will be one to watch.

[dally]

On balance, I know meds have been literally life saving for some when their depression or panic have been so bad. But reading posts on this and other sites is why I personally so scared to take any meds or even try them because I can't risk my symptoms becoming worse or prolonged.

[pulisa]

It's been acknowledged that my prolonged symptoms will not be helped by meds. I felt that this was a bit of a breakthrough from the usual "try this and come back in 2 months" lark.

[dally]

Exactly pulisa ...or ' try doubling the dose!

[Noivous]

Exactly pulisa ...or ' try doubling the dose!



Now that's funny! :roflmao:

[MyNameIsTerry]

Exactly pulisa ...or ' try doubling the dose!

Something I've seen on here is that GP's just keep pushing to "optimum dose" when the patient is reporting they are feeling better already. I've seen Phill2 say he had this and refused. Some people are working with 10mg Citalopram on here when 20mg is the minimum to a doctor.

I think it's good to listen to the patient and if they are responding, monitor at that dose. Why push for higher dosages which are harder to come off later if less does more?

One argument is cost. Some of these meds are cheap at the minimum dosages but more at the half starting doses.

Another argument is that GP's follow what they have been told to do in that the "normal" pattern of treatment is X=Y. We know it just isn't like that.

There is also the question of time. GP's want us in & out and never back again as soon as possible. They know what they are dealing with when there is a "healing time" but any illness that needs a monitoring approach is a nuisance to them. Its not just mental health that they apply that to.

---------- Post added at 06:54 ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 ----------


On balance, I know meds have been literally life saving for some when their depression or panic have been so bad. But reading posts on this and other sites is why I personally so scared to take any meds or even try them because I can't risk my symptoms becoming worse or prolonged.

So, here is a good one to read about someone who was terrified that meds would make her worse:

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=185458

What Kimberley's GP did was excellent. None of this starting at therapeutic dose stuff, starting so small and building up in a way that mirrored an exposure ladder. This way Kimberley could back out any time she wanted with much less of a withdrawal, if any at all.

Maybe taking such a slow approach could be useful to you?

[pulisa]

Now that's funny! :roflmao:

The trouble is it's not funny because people follow this advice

[MyNameIsTerry]

The trouble is it's not funny because people follow this advice

Yeah, sadly the NHS! :D

[dally]

Terry
One argument is cost. Some of these meds are cheap at the minimum dosages but more at the half starting doses.

Wow, didn't know this. Shocking and ridiculous!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Terry
One argument is cost. Some of these meds are cheap at the minimum dosages but more at the half starting doses.

Wow, didn't know this. Shocking and ridiculous!

Yeah, I've read before that they do this because they don't want to sell them. Somehow shouldn't that fall under a law somewhere about unfair pricing?

It's like when builders don't want to do a job but don't want to be seen turning work down so they quote too high knowing someone will easily beat them.