The anxiety just won't stop!

[Shazamataz]

Hi All,

I wasn't sure which section to put this in as I seem to have developed every possible type of anxiety on top of panic attacks, which started this for me back in October last year.

I failed miserably at different SSRIs and eventually went on to Mirtazapine about 4 months ago (30 mg). I thought it was helping and I was improving a bit, still not great but compared to being afraid to leave the house at all on my own I was managing to get out a couple of times a day with the dogs and our walks were getting longer and at places farther away. I was going to appointments, doing shopping, visiting the occasional friend and even going to the movies most weeks. I got to a point a couple of weeks back where I was thinking of starting some sort of voluntary work until I felt ready to look for proper work again.

I've had a lot of ups and downs with sleep but that also settled a bit with the help of melatonin and zopiclone. I felt well enough to start weaning off diazepam and I was down to 1.5 mg from 4 mg daily and feeling hopeful.

Then last wednesday night (a week and a half ago) I woke in the worst panic I've ever had and have not been okay since. The constant anxiety is crippling. I've had to call in support from friends who are struggling themselves with their own issues and I know it's wearing a bit thin. I feel so alone and trapped in this agony. Afraid I can't look after myself or my dogs and just desperate for some relief. I may get a few minutes here and there where I feel almost okay but the rest is hellish to say the least.

I've tried all the techniques but they aren't helping. I had a couple of slightly better days Wed and Thurs this week and then yesterday was dreadful and last night I've only had about 4 hours sleep again.

I managed through sheer grit to drive to the beach with the dogs this morning in the midst of a panic attack. It settled a bit while we were out and then I've just had a lie down, almost felt relaxed but after a very short while, heart pounding out of my chest (not overly fast), whole body practically bouncing with it.

I thought at first I may be having a 'blip' from diazepam tapering but I've put my dose back up a step for a week now and it hasn't settled.


I can;t ask medically for help as the only thing they will do is try and push more meds on me and I don't see how I can deal with start up effects again (it would be an SSRI or venlafaxine).

At my wits end. Any moral support or encouragement greatly appreciated.

---------- Post added at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

I will add that it's almost like being in a panic attack 24/7. They say this isn't possible but that's what it feels like. I'm feeling exactly as I did when starting up SSRIs.

In the past I have had anxiety for years but this was mainly attacks in certain situations. Once the situation was over, like a plane ride, I'd go back to normal and feel fine in between. Then when I restarted up SSRIs after tapering off (long story) I had anxiety all of the time, every waking minute so after 4 weeks of this I went onto Mirtazapine briefly, didn't like how it made me feel so stopped it. Then after about another month was still in hell so started on the 30 mg dose I am on now.

How does one get relief from anxiety when one can;t get out of the situation causing it, i.e., being inside my body, anywhere?!

[LittleMissAlone]

Gosh Sharon

I thought I'd give you moral support, for what it's worth. I too started my illness in October after something concerning my so called love life triggered it in early October. But apart from the odd panic I'm absolutely fine. Having said that I'm still not working, find being around anyone, even close friends, very difficult. I thought I was getting worse with the warm weather so went back the doctor who told me to increase mirtazapine to 22.5mg. The last few days have been tricky as I've been dealing with the side effects, but hoping I pick up. I do generally in the second half of the year if I've had a dodgy first half.

I'm sorry I can't offer more help, you seem to be doing everything right, and you are wise to not be put on any more meds. Do you ever wonder if you'd be better off without any drugs at all? It's easy to feel like that. Also, diazepam can be notorious to come down from.

Keep in touch though! X

[georgewing]

Hy from what i see you take too many meds ,i dont say that meds are not good but taking so much you give sugestion to your subconstient mind that you are very sick and sufer hard from anxiety .And the problem its hidden in your subconstient mind.With anxiety its good to work more with your mind its good to feet her with positive thoughts happy feelings and will stop your anxiety at least a little until you will fix it .I like to watch motivational videos and to read personal development books and vieos by great experts like Napoleon Hill ,Tony Robbins and Ken Robins and many others .Also you must escape from fear by sugestion your subconstient mind with emotion .For example I repeat for 5 minutes 3 times a day .I repeat onece before i go to sleep ,imediatly when i wake up and in the middle of the day .I make this autosugestion :I am a very courageos man ,the secret its not to reapeat it mecanicaly you must repeat it with emotion and to be perseverent and do it everyday.If you dont give up on this tehniue you will see that easy by easy you will get courage

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hy from what i see you take too many meds ,i dont say that meds are not good but taking so much you give sugestion to your subconstient mind that you are very sick and sufer hard from anxiety .And the problem its hidden in your subconstient mind.With anxiety its good to work more with your mind its good to feet her with positive thoughts happy feelings and will stop your anxiety at least a little until you will fix it .I like to watch motivational videos and to read personal development books and vieos by great experts like Napoleon Hill ,Tony Robbins and Ken Robins and many others .Also you must escape from fear by sugestion your subconstient mind with emotion .For example I repeat for 5 minutes 3 times a day .I repeat onece before i go to sleep ,imediatly when i wake up and in the middle of the day .I make this autosugestion :I am a very courageos man ,the secret its not to reapeat it mecanicaly you must repeat it with emotion and to be perseverent and do it everyday.If you dont give up on this tehniue you will see that easy by easy you will get courage

Please please please please follow my link and click on the product I am promoting so I get my commission off your monthly fees. :doh::doh::doh:

---------- Post added at 07:04 ---------- Previous post was at 06:55 ----------

Shaz,

I know it's very hard when it's like this, it's how I was when I went on my current med and it took ages to change. I can't tell you the amount of times I wish I would just die. It was hell.

For me it took time for all this to settle down but this is the worst thing to probably hear when in that mess. Each & every day was an enormous fight through. It wasn't a matter of something just working for me, it was a matter of doing things for quite a while and bit by bit it would change. But it took ages.

Right now what I am wondering whether you could try to stabilise yourself by either increasing the Mirt or increasing the Diazepam or both? If it is too painful right now, would going up a bit on the Diazepam get you back to something you can deal with and then you can start moving forward with techniques and reduce the Diazepam again later? I don't know, I have very little experience with benzo's so I don't know how appropriate this is but I wonder whether you are having some sort of rebound here or whether the reduction was just too sharp and whether reinstituting a slightly higher dose than the current one might make you feel better? I really don't know, it's just something to perhaps think about?

I don't know about the Mirt either. Would increasing it help? Would it be too activating?

I just wish we had answers on this because it's horrible to see people suffer like this. LiveAboveIt has been saying much the same but he is at least now seeing some progress. I remember my hell well, I never want to go through that again and it's why I'm pretty resistant to med changes as it's a minefield but this has also cost me because I'm not where I should be now either.

[Shazamataz]

Thanks guys, just nice to know someone is out there who understands a bit.

There is something in what george says but I'm not clicking on any links! Yes I am on too many meds and feel a right mess and part of me believes the meds are to blame for the state I am in but I am reluctant to change anything in that area case it makes things worse.

Today I desperately wanted to take extra diazepam but I know in the long run it will just cause more problems and there's a good chance the extra won;t make a difference anyway.

Regarding the Mirt I simply can't see what benefit an increase would do as it's never done much for the anxiety anyway, just made me fat and in a better mood - haha.
It just feels like the anxiety is feeding on itself and creating more anxiety and it's this big vicious cycle spiralling bigger and bigger.

I'm sorry you had to go through this too Terry. It really is hell and I've been having many moments of wishing I could just die so I didn't have to feel this anymore but, no, I am not at risk of doing anything to myself, too anxious for that!

I am holding onto the sliver of hope things will get better, even just a little better than they are right now. I don't need things to be great, just bearable.

After working in mental health for 11 years I have seen a lot of people really unwell for long periods and it's hard not to remember that and think 'I am one of them now'. However I also saw people who were very unwell get better and move on with their lives. Not many but some. Most of my clients had been unwell all their lives so I guess I have more hope as the severity of this has only been months, not years.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, that is a good way to look at it. They have many years to ingrain their negative thinking and I can tell you from my experience that there is a difference between short term & long term, it gets more complex. You know the subconscious keeps working by creating new core beliefs, adding new associations, etc so the longer in these states, the more that is going to grow. It seems so vital to get to people sooner rather than later to avoid having to deal with all that extra ingrained thinking that is stopping them even trying half the time.

I can understand you don't want to change anything with the meds, you are very sensitive right now and the thought of it worsening seems too much to bare. I don't know on that, I know I would feel the same as you though. If the Mirt isn't helping, what is it doing? Is it too stimulating at that dose? Was the Diazepam offsetting that stimulation? Talk about complex, eh?

I know you won't harm yourself, Shaz, I felt the same. It's not that we want to die, it's just that we want this to end. I think it's just the mind weighing up options to ask "what about if we did this" but as long as you are saying no, that's all it is. Anxiety tends to make us too afraid of it, I think it's more depression that worry creeps in with. However, I had some terrible low moods following high periods of anxiety where I just wished I would get something everyone on the HA board is obsessing over having. It was just the thought the pain would go, I always knew if I had the choice of it going without me falling ill & dying, that would be my preference.

It probably sounds ludicrous to the HA people and may even seem insulting to members who have battled cancer, but I try to accept this as the subconscious presenting options to someone in emotional pain, nothing more. I don't feel guilty for that because I've had intrusive thoughts and I know feeling guilty for the random thoughts the mind produces is only a way to feel worse and become depressed.

The HA people are afraid of death, many of we GADers are afraid to live! It just seems too painful to keep going on with it when it's this severe.

I can tell you know that back then I had given up on feeling better. It went on for many months and I hope you don't go through the same or anyone else. I'm glad to see LiveAboveIt breaking free of that thinking now. There are many who have been far worse than I have ever felt as well and they would hope no one else goes through what they did either. I hope I never do. I remember telling myself I was cursed to spend my days with agitation and high anxiety and endless compulsions that ruled my days. Each compulsion just seemed to make me worse too. But I was wrong. It was hell, it was painful, but years later I came out the other side so when I see someone saying that, I remember me saying it.

So, hold onto that because it will get better. It may take time, it may take a long time or it may be much quicker. I hope the latter. But it can happen.

[Buster70]

Hi shaz , sorry to hear you are still struggling I've been in the hell hole a few times and like you my dogs where the only thing kept me going out stick with that how ever hard it gets you still need to get out or agoraphobia sets in , my partner tried mirtazepine and it didn't go well she was worse than ever and hell to be around mood swings from anxiety to depression she also had a period for around 6 weeks , she came off it and went back to citalopram , you know I also take diazepam and I've always tried to take the lowest dose three days last week and I bombed and started taking them again although it could just be coinsidence , my anxiety and depression seem to come from my problematic family life but somtimes I just go through a bad patch for no apparent reason , you are going through a bad patch the only thing I can say is you can ride it out and it will get better , I somtimes try and look at it like a storm it will pass over you just have to rough it out for a bit , take care , ps waiting for somone to get back to me about another dog thinking maybe it will snap me out of this bad patch a good distraction .

[pulisa]

Shaz, I just wanted to say that I can very much empathise with this relentless 24/7 agitation when just sitting still is a huge challenge. My psych called it akathisia. It is hugely distressing and you just "live" each day minute by minute. I don't have any advice but Terry has obviously made some very positive steps in his recovery so anything he says is said from experience and hard work. I'm not a believer in antidepressants for this-they can be far too activating with these symptoms but others I'm sure would disagree.

I don't think psychiatrists/psychologists know much about this extreme aspect of anxiety/depression. It's a question of a tranquiliser cocktail and deal with the withdrawal later.

[Shazamataz]

Shaz, I just wanted to say that I can very much empathise with this relentless 24/7 agitation when just sitting still is a huge challenge. My psych called it akathisia. It is hugely distressing and you just "live" each day minute by minute. I don't have any advice but Terry has obviously made some very positive steps in his recovery so anything he says is said from experience and hard work. I'm not a believer in antidepressants for this-they can be far too activating with these symptoms but others I'm sure would disagree.

I don't think psychiatrists/psychologists know much about this extreme aspect of anxiety/depression. It's a question of a tranquiliser cocktail and deal with the withdrawal later.

Thanks Pulisa,

I agree with the antidepressants being activating. It's the reason my GP originally took me off escitalopram as we agreed it may be causing more harm than good. Ultimately after I'd tapered off and was feeling okayish the panic attacks started again (at the same time I went back to work) so we decided maybe I needed an SSRI after all but these made things 10 x worse and I now have GAD as well as panic disorder. I've ended up on mirtazapine as was desperate and when I went to see the psychiatrist she insisted I was depressed and sorting that would sort the anxiety. That diagnosis when I'd just sat down with her. I repeatedly told her I was depressed BECAUSE I'd had bad anxiety for months.

Unfortunately I don't want to stop the Mirt as don;t want to deal with withdrawals on top of everything else. I don;t think it's made things any worse but it sure hasn't fixed anything.

I gave in and took some extra diazepam which has taken the edge off a tiny bit but that may also be because it's evening and I've survived another day.

Someone needs to develop a magic pill ASAP for this as it's just torture. The agitation, can't be where I am but can't be anywhere else either. Need to move but so exhausted I just want sleep!

---------- Post added at 20:04 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------


Hi shaz , sorry to hear you are still struggling I've been in the hell hole a few times and like you my dogs where the only thing kept me going out stick with that how ever hard it gets you still need to get out or agoraphobia sets in , my partner tried mirtazepine and it didn't go well she was worse than ever and hell to be around mood swings from anxiety to depression she also had a period for around 6 weeks , she came off it and went back to citalopram , you know I also take diazepam and I've always tried to take the lowest dose three days last week and I bombed and started taking them again although it could just be coinsidence , my anxiety and depression seem to come from my problematic family life but somtimes I just go through a bad patch for no apparent reason , you are going through a bad patch the only thing I can say is you can ride it out and it will get better , I somtimes try and look at it like a storm it will pass over you just have to rough it out for a bit , take care , ps waiting for somone to get back to me about another dog thinking maybe it will snap me out of this bad patch a good distraction .

Thanks Buster. The dogs are a mixed blessing really. I feel such a responsibility for them, especially Lola who has quite complex needs so I can't really get anyone else to look after her. Not wanting to minimise what people go through with children with autism but I'd swear she would be on the spectrum if she was a person, combined with having had a traumatic first few months of life. I've had moments when I wish something bad would happen to them just so I didn't have to look after them any more. But then they are also what keeps me going and get me out of the house and I do love them, probably too much.

Fingers crossed you meet the dog of your dreams, they do help overall.

[pulisa]

One of the worst feelings with this is that you need to escape but there is nowhere to escape to and the agitation goes with you everywhere..

I understand what you say about the mirt. I think it's important to try to downplay the agitation no matter how relentless it is. Just focus on getting through the next minute-don't think too far ahead because that is soul destroying. I'm probably not much help to you but I've had a lot of practice of living with this and caring for my autistic daughter so I can understand that it's hard living with an autistic dog!!

[Shazamataz]

One of the worst feelings with this is that you need to escape but there is nowhere to escape to and the agitation goes with you everywhere..

I understand what you say about the mirt. I think it's important to try to downplay the agitation no matter how relentless it is. Just focus on getting through the next minute-don't think too far ahead because that is soul destroying. I'm probably not much help to you but I've had a lot of practice of living with this and caring for my autistic daughter so I can understand that it's hard living with an autistic dog!!

Yes, I thought of you when I made that comment and was conscious of not wanting to be offensive. I've worked with a number of people on the spectrum in my job in mental health so have had a bit of experience. In fact when I first got Lola I brought her with me to work and at the time my two clients with an Asperger's diagnosis (along with mental health issues) both really connected with her as they could see themselves in her.

The agitation is relentless and it makes me feel like I'm going to lose control in the car or when out walking so this past week I've been home a bit more but then that makes it worse as being alone just makes room for the head to start circling and worrying over things.

I'm doing my best to not think about the future much past tomorrow but it's difficult not to be worried about feeling this way and it never stopping.

Must be so hard with your daughter but I'm sure she is amazing and brings you joy as well.

---------- Post added at 22:32 ---------- Previous post was at 21:54 ----------

As a bit of a brief update to those who have kindly taken time to respond the extra diazepam didn't help so I won't do that again.

I'm going to have to work on mentally conquering this. I've gotten into so many habits around checking my pulse and temp and things, looking for something wrong as it FEELS so wrong and worrying if things are a bit out of kilter but still worrying if they aren't.

I do have some genuine health issues and I think part of what has contributed to all this has been them piling up on one another and becoming overwhelming. So I guess I have HA as well. Just coming to terms with that right now. Urgh.

[MyNameIsTerry]

That's nice that Lola bought them some comfort. You don't get more non judgemental than animals, they bring such love to a lot of lives.

When I was going through all the toughest times I would think "if only I was an orphan" so it meant there was no obstacle preventing me from ending it. But despite all those thoughts and even fleeting resentment, it was just the pain talking. If the decision was truly put to me I would give my parents my remaining years for them to live longer without a thought.

So, that doesn't tie in with those other thoughts, they were just the mind reacting due to the pain of the time and they wiped out the person underneath, they were just a brief temporary mask.

Do what you need to do right now to get through. The future will still be there later and if it's too painful to think about, just getting from one day to the next is better. You can get back to that position of looking for voluntary work once through this but right now that's too big a goal that may just upset you more. Others on here have gone through it saying how bad it was and have got themselves well enough to get into voluntary work, part time work, etc so it's doable.

[Buster70]

Hi , just done the morning dog walk had to talk to about 10 people still getting asked where my other dog is , ended up with chest pain and anxous but still did it and I'll still do it tomorrow as you will , you are stronger than you think it's just anxiety making you doubt yourself that person who used to work is still in there I've got better before and it's lasted ten years , got home to find out somone is bringing a pup round it's sent my anxiety up but we will just have to see , anxiety just takes the good out of everything , you mention the beach that must be good when you are feeling ok , I'm 2 1/2 hours drive away from the coast but I still like to take a drive there my dogs loved it , my old dog was fearless and calm our other is very nervous of every thing fireworks loud noises , it's kind of symbolic of me how I used to be and how I am now , just a thought but are there any groups for people who were health workers down under its surprising how many nurses and doctors end up with anxiety I've spoken to quite a few and even my own doc had depression , I do wonder how many people on here were not so bad until they started on meds I definitely ended up worse first time round for me was in the late 80s no meds no internet doc didn't have a clue and I got over it a lot quicker , I realy wish I had the answer to share with you all , take care

[pulisa]

Yes you do have HA but that's because your arousal levels are so high and you are hyper sensitive to every single sensation in your body. Working on the mental side of all this is the way to go but it is far from easy. I think you are just overwhelmed by it all as the symptoms and feelings escalate and you must feel very isolated and frightened.

You're doing the right thing by posting on here because some of us have certainly experienced this and are still here in one piece despite everything. You will be OK, you will get through this no matter how desperate you feel at the moment.

[Shazamataz]

Thanks guys,

I managed to get a few hours sleep but woke at 6 am. The unbearable thirst and constant going to the toilet are very bothersome. Also the all over tingling prickling through my whole body. It really does feel like when I started seretonin meds earlier in the year.

No idea how I will get through today. I'll take the dogs out because I have to but then there's a long long day ahead with likely no company or distractions. Every minute is hurting.

Is it possible to seriously dehydrate oneself? With all the peeing? I've already had a whole bottle of water (750ml) but am sure I've weed out more than has gone in in the past three hours :(

[MyNameIsTerry]

I wouldn't worry too much about dehydration, Shaz. Your body will certainly make you aware of that. Being thirsty means we already are, so take that as a clue to rehydrate.

Serious dehydration is a whole other level. As in, walking in desserts with no water to replenish our bodies. As long as you keep water going in, you will stay far above this level.

Fight or flight has a whole load of reactions and peeing is one of them. The same with loose stools. It tries to empty these to prepare for the fight or the running away.

I find even now that downing a lot of liquid makes me go a couple of times close together and then it settles down. The second time might feel more urgent yet very little comes out by comparison to the first. It can be frustrating going in little bits often.

[Buster70]

Hi shaz , I had that tingling all over yesterday drives me nuts I do get it when I'm more anxous I also get dry mouth , it's not about dehydration that brings on headaches and achey legs and orange pee , I saw a programme the other day about health drinks and suppliments etc , milk came out best it hydrates you better as it takes longer to go through , try a glass every now and then it settles my stomach as well , hope it passes soon hate the thought of people going through it alone .

[Shazamataz]

I wouldn't worry too much about dehydration, Shaz. Your body will certainly make you aware of that. Being thirsty means we already are, so take that as a clue to rehydrate.

Serious dehydration is a whole other level. As in, walking in desserts with no water to replenish our bodies. As long as you keep water going in, you will stay far above this level.

Fight or flight has a whole load of reactions and peeing is one of them. The same with loose stools. It tries to empty these to prepare for the fight or the running away.

I find even now that downing a lot of liquid makes me go a couple of times close together and then it settles down. The second time might feel more urgent yet very little comes out by comparison to the first. It can be frustrating going in little bits often.

Thanks Terry it's just the body playing tricks because anxiety also stops or reduces saliva flow so even if you aren't peeing a lot and are drinking plenty you feel incredibly thirsty. Well that's my experience anyway. And the thirst does seem to increase with higher anxiety for me.

Still incredibly rough so not sure it can be due to diazepam tapering since I went back to the dose up from my last reduction and have been there well over a week now. If anything the anxiety is getting worse. I think I'm allowing it to spiral as, of course, I can't help worrying about being back to almost complete debilitation again. And this time I'm pretty much going it alone when I had heaps of support earlier in the year. People get fed up I think and have their own struggles.

I have managed today to take dogs to the beach this morning, had my brother over to visit this afternoon, drove him home in the dark and rain (was horrid but I did it!) and then just done a lead walk around the street. I freaked about 200m from the house and turned back. Dogs were very confused. Then I decided if I gave in the anxiety was going to keep winning, so turned back around and we did about 40 minutes. I did not enjoy it at all but pleased I did it.

[dally]

On a lighter note.... in the early hours, still half asleep..I had been mouth breathing due to hayfever ...
any way my tongue was practically stuck to the roof of my mouth it was so dry.
So I reached out to my bedside table for a drink of bottled water
Except
I accidentally lifted my eye makeup remover bottle and took a big gulp.
6 hours later, three toothbrushing sessions and I am still gagging at the uber disgusting oily residue that seems to have coated every part of my teeth, mouth, throat and gullet...yuk.

Lesson learned.. there will only ever be water on my bedside table from now on!��

[Shazamataz]

On a lighter note.... in the early hours, still half asleep..I had been mouth breathing due to hayfever ...
any way my tongue was practically stuck to the roof of my mouth it was so dry.
So I reached out to my bedside table for a drink of bottled water
Except
I accidentally lifted my eye makeup remover bottle and took a big gulp.
6 hours later, three toothbrushing sessions and I am still gagging at the uber disgusting oily residue that seems to have coated every part of my teeth, mouth, throat and gullet...yuk.

Lesson learned.. there will only ever be water on my bedside table from now on!��

Oh no! Kinda funny but also nasty! Thanks for the laugh though.

---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:14 ----------


Hi shaz , I had that tingling all over yesterday drives me nuts I do get it when I'm more anxous I also get dry mouth , it's not about dehydration that brings on headaches and achey legs and orange pee , I saw a programme the other day about health drinks and suppliments etc , milk came out best it hydrates you better as it takes longer to go through , try a glass every now and then it settles my stomach as well , hope it passes soon hate the thought of people going through it alone .

Thanks Buster, the tingling isn't the worst anxiety symptom but having it raises my anxiety levels as of course I associate it with anxiety.

Good idea about the milk. I actually have found that when I wake in the night with super dry mouth, and it seems to deed the anxiety, having a couple spoons of yoghurt helps, probably not ideal long term for my teeth though!

[Chocolateface]

Sorry to hear you are feeling like this, I can't offer any help with meds as I have never been on them, but I do get anxiety to the point that whatever the situation is it takes over my life and becomes all I can focus on. I don't know really how I get through them but somehow I just do, it is hard though. One thing that helps me is to try to surround myself with positivity and positive people, this gives me a little boost amd stops me dwelling on it. I also go running in a running club and the fresh air and exercise really helps.

Hope you feel better soon

[MyNameIsTerry]

Oh dally, thank god you don't have HA or contamination themes on top of it all, eh?!!! Sounds pretty horrible. I was watching One Foot In The Grave the other night on TV and Victor had taken a Valium the night before and was busy reading a paper at the kitchen table with a cup of tea, a boiled egg and some soldiers. He was stirring his egg and then dunked his soldier in his tea...which was following by a minute of confusion staring at them all wondering what on earth had happened! :biggrin: I reckon I've been there myself with things too!

Shaz, well done facing the fear. That's always hard but at this sensitised stage it will be like moving mountains for you. It may not feel like much, the anxiety just takes over again, but it is significant in you not giving in. As Buster said, the agoraphobia can follow the more we retreat and I was really bad for that when I went to these stages. My dad would get me out walking the dog with him. It was very hard and took weeks to months to get better but what else can we do?

What happened to you, I think, is that something inside took over and just said "do it" because it was for the dogs you love. They are also useful to you because you will feel less alone and more confident.

The milk thing is curious. I know milk is mostly made up of casein protein with a smaller amount of whey protein. In bodybuilding they say to take whey after works outs because it is absorbed quickly and casein at night as it's slowly absorbed (6-7 hours I think it was). They say that mixing the two means the casein will cause the whey to also be absorbed slowly so they take them separate. I wonder if that governs the liquid absorption? I guess it must since the protein is in the liquid so maybe the water is bound by the casein too?

[Shazamataz]

Oh dally, thank god you don't have HA or contamination themes on top of it all, eh?!!! Sounds pretty horrible. I was watching One Foot In The Grave the other night on TV and Victor had taken a Valium the night before and was busy reading a paper at the kitchen table with a cup of tea, a boiled egg and some soldiers. He was stirring his egg and then dunked his soldier in his tea...which was following by a minute of confusion staring at them all wondering what on earth had happened! :biggrin: I reckon I've been there myself with things too!

Shaz, well done facing the fear. That's always hard but at this sensitised stage it will be like moving mountains for you. It may not feel like much, the anxiety just takes over again, but it is significant in you not giving in. As Buster said, the agoraphobia can follow the more we retreat and I was really bad for that when I went to these stages. My dad would get me out walking the dog with him. It was very hard and took weeks to months to get better but what else can we do?

What happened to you, I think, is that something inside took over and just said "do it" because it was for the dogs you love. They are also useful to you because you will feel less alone and more confident.

The milk thing is curious. I know milk is mostly made up of casein protein with a smaller amount of whey protein. In bodybuilding they say to take whey after works outs because it is absorbed quickly and casein at night as it's slowly absorbed (6-7 hours I think it was). They say that mixing the two means the casein will cause the whey to also be absorbed slowly so they take them separate. I wonder if that governs the liquid absorption? I guess it must since the protein is in the liquid so maybe the water is bound by the casein too?

Hi Terry,

Unfortunately the anxiety got the better of me this morning after being wide awake from 5 am (managed 4 hours) and at 8.30 I called the mental health team. I have a support person (she's a social worker but they have nurses as well) who I was due to meet in town for a coffee as last time I saw her 2 weeks ago I was doing quite well.

So I spoke to her and she arranged to come to me instead and has booked me an appointment with psychiatrist on Wednesday as I wasn't due for about 3 weeks yet. I had to cancel my final psychologist appointment as just couldn't face it

Once again, sheer grit and determination got me and the dogs in the car to the beach for an hour. Felt marginally better but worse as we were coming home. Had a lie down as exhausted, waves of anxiety all over the place. Support person came at 2 and we went back to the beach as I so needed to get out. So dogs have had a good day even if I haven't.

Then with hours to go until bedtime I have been very antsy with very high anxiety symptoms. I nearly convinced myself to drive to the supermarket but didn't manage it. BUT did do another walk around the block for 15 minutes and it wasn't as bad as when I went last night.

Now a long evening ahead inside my own head. Certainly fed up with the struggle. I guess if I even manage moments of not giving in to it the anxiety isn't completely winning is it?

---------- Post added at 18:55 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------


Sorry to hear you are feeling like this, I can't offer any help with meds as I have never been on them, but I do get anxiety to the point that whatever the situation is it takes over my life and becomes all I can focus on. I don't know really how I get through them but somehow I just do, it is hard though. One thing that helps me is to try to surround myself with positivity and positive people, this gives me a little boost amd stops me dwelling on it. I also go running in a running club and the fresh air and exercise really helps.

Hope you feel better soon

Thanks Chocolate, it's always nice to know others are dealing with this not that I would wish it on anyone, but feel less alone.

I live alone and am off working so spend far too much time in my own company. I have two dogs and walk them every day but outings are a struggle with all the dizziness etc that anxiety brings.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Even moments are better than no moments, yes. AND you did get out for an hour and drive too. For some people that would be too much so you need to remember that you aren't running away from it, you are still trying and holding on.

The walk around the block is a little easier so that shows it's sinking in and it's best to continue with it. As time moves on, change it, lengthen it, alter the route, etc to break it up so it's not always autopilot but there is time for this.

You got back to the beach with the support worker too. Whilst there is comfort in having someone with you, it still takes a huge amount of effort to do these things.

The supermarket is just another goal to work on. You don't even need to go in at first if exposure of sitting outside gets you part of the way to that goal until you feel ready to step through the doors.

I think you are being hard on yourself. You could have not gone out at all and just sat and suffered it all day - but you didn't. Any time you manage to do something, even if it is very hard, that means you aren't avoiding everything by staying in means you are trying to move forward.

[Shazamataz]

Even moments are better than no moments, yes. AND you did get out for an hour and drive too. For some people that would be too much so you need to remember that you aren't running away from it, you are still trying and holding on.

The walk around the block is a little easier so that shows it's sinking in and it's best to continue with it. As time moves on, change it, lengthen it, alter the route, etc to break it up so it's not always autopilot but there is time for this.

You got back to the beach with the support worker too. Whilst there is comfort in having someone with you, it still takes a huge amount of effort to do these things.

The supermarket is just another goal to work on. You don't even need to go in at first if exposure of sitting outside gets you part of the way to that goal until you feel ready to step through the doors.

I think you are being hard on yourself. You could have not gone out at all and just sat and suffered it all day - but you didn't. Any time you manage to do something, even if it is very hard, that means you aren't avoiding everything by staying in means you are trying to move forward.


Thanks Terry, as always. I'm just having such bad anticipatory anxiety about every little thing so I really should congratulate myself for getting out every day since this started. Maybe I ought to start an achievements journal or something.

This time I have less support available which increases the worry and anxiety but perhaps it's not all bad as it forces me to manage by myself.

The supermarket is an issue because of course I need food. I still have a couple days up my sleeve and I could always order online but feel that would be giving in.

They say not to 'fight' the anxiety but surely one must to some extent as everything is such a mammoth effort and essentially one is winning if doing something they are afraid of.

Have a hospital appointment tomorrow for something unrelated and do have a friend coming with me for that, thank goodness!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Yes, we all have to fight. CBT is making us fight back, just in a constructive way. The issue anything fighting anxiety is about doing it in an unhealthy way that leads nowhere.

It's like with acceptance, we can't just passively sit there and take it, we also have to do things to move forward, to expose ourselves.

Fighting symptoms by dwelling on them and getting frustrated or being negative is what doesn't help. But fighting back by getting on why things and not succumbing isn't the same and is what we need to do.

If you need to take the supermarket gradually you could order in our even order some things so that the time in there is shorter. As long as you don't make it a routine to order in because of the anxiety, you won't build a new avoidance pattern by taking a breather once when trying to stabilise yourself. Even if you have to order in this time, you can sit in the car outside just to try going if you feel ready. So, you can spin it into something other than avoidance.

---------- Post added at 09:01 ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 ----------

Documenting your achievements is a very good idea too. It's a technique of therapy so why not do it? There are some specific CBT tools for this such as ones that rate the anxiety before & after along with a statement about how you feel about it now.

Seeing it on paper can make it seem more real I've found although this seemed to come later for me.

[dally]

Terry is right.
ANY 'moment'. out and about is way better that hours in our homes

[Buster70]

Hi shaz , sorry to read things haven't picked up yet they will but I know it's hard to see the light when you are in a hole , you do the same as me trying to find the reason for the way you feel but I think somtimes there just isn't one , I blamed the diazepam like you , I felt good off it for a few days then crashed then went back on it didn't feel any better , Saturday when we got the new pup I was realy anxous all day it was horrendous when I should have been happy , things calmed down Sunday and today has been pretty good , the pup behaved on the morning walk which helped start the day off , you need to keep busy and keep going out believe me I know how hard that is , im up and down with no rymme or reason but I'm not all down which is good , somtimes things just get better for no apparent reason hopfully that will happen for you , take care .

[MyNameIsTerry]

A whole load of worksheets you could have a look at, Shaz. Some of these allow for recording of Enjoyment or Mastery or both and some encourage you to plan, record and close with understanding.

http://psychology.tools/daily-monitoring-form.html
http://psychology.tools/task-planning-and-achievement-record.html
http://psychology.tools/cbt-daily-activity-diary-e-m.html
http://psychology.tools/exposure-practice-form.html
http://psychology.tools/trap-trac.html
http://psychology.tools/activity-planning.html
http://psychology.tools/activity-selection.html
http://psychology.tools/abc-belief-monitoring.html
http://psychology.tools/modifying-rules-and-assumptions.html
http://psychology.tools/what-if.html
http://psychology.tools/theory-a-theory-b.html

And that interoceptive exposure you mentioned on another thread has a sheet of examples on the site I take these tools & techniques from so I've attached that just in case it's any use.

http://psychology.tools/interoceptive-exposure.html

[busterrufus]

Shaz ,in a state myself but been reading your posts and think you are doing well to be functioning, taking dogs for walks and getting out a bit. Luckily my husband is able to take ours out!

I read that you were in mental health care as a profession. Did you ever come across people who seemed to be suffering severe anxiety like yourself 24/7? I don't know myself if its possible, but it certainly feels like that is what is happening to me, like there is no "off" switch for the stress hormones. I don't know enough about the subject really, wondered if you did. A support worker once used a analogy of a bucket filling up with stress hormones until it just took a tiny amount to overflow. Can't remember exactly.

Glad you get support on forum. Hope you feel much better soon. Ruth

[dfoxworth]

Shaz ,in a state myself but been reading your posts and think you are doing well to be functioning, taking dogs for walks and getting out a bit. Luckily my husband is able to take ours out!

I read that you were in mental health care as a profession. Did you ever come across people who seemed to be suffering severe anxiety like yourself 24/7? I don't know myself if its possible, but it certainly feels like that is what is happening to me, like there is no "off" switch for the stress hormones. I don't know enough about the subject really, wondered if you did. A support worker once used a analogy of a bucket filling up with stress hormones until it just took a tiny amount to overflow. Can't remember exactly.

Glad you get support on forum. Hope you feel much better soon. Ruth

Hello, I am new to the forum. But I know exactly what you mean about a constant state of anxiety 24/7. I posted a long post on the Heart Palpitations forum about my story, but it started the first of May with loss of appetite and then a racing heart sometime over 150 BMP! It was off and on in May, but in June it has been everyday now. Had to go to the ER twice and this has all just shook me to the core. I am now on Beta Blockers (Metoprolol) to control my heart rate and keep it from going too high. Some days it will still get to 150 or a little over and then I have to take another pill. My whole day is ruined after that because it leaves me shaky with a burning chest and stomach, can't eat or sleep. Thank goodness for my mother as she has been taking care of my cat and dog for me as I cannot. I'm just so weak and exhausted all the time. I felt a little better today but for some reason my heart had to go through the roof and got me really anxious again. I don't understand why it does that. If my heart would just normalize then I feel I could get rid of this debilitating anxiety. My Cardiogist told me to go to the mental health center to get on Zoloft. As this happened when I was 12 years old, (I am now 30) and Zoloft helped me. It wasn't nearly this bad though, just loss of appetite and a slightly elevated heart rate. Haven't had a peep of anxiety for 18 years, and I've been through terrible things through the years. Just don't know why its happening now. I have an appointment with the Doctor at the mental health center tomorrow morning, so I hope he will prescribe me something that will help. The Metoprolol isn't helping that much, as I am unable to take them often or in high doses because I already have low blood pressure and they lower it even more. Anyway, I hope you're doing better, Shaz and everyone else. I sure wouldn't wish this on anyone!

[MyNameIsTerry]

Shaz ,in a state myself but been reading your posts and think you are doing well to be functioning, taking dogs for walks and getting out a bit. Luckily my husband is able to take ours out!

I read that you were in mental health care as a profession. Did you ever come across people who seemed to be suffering severe anxiety like yourself 24/7? I don't know myself if its possible, but it certainly feels like that is what is happening to me, like there is no "off" switch for the stress hormones. I don't know enough about the subject really, wondered if you did. A support worker once used a analogy of a bucket filling up with stress hormones until it just took a tiny amount to overflow. Can't remember exactly.

Glad you get support on forum. Hope you feel much better soon. Ruth

That's exactly how I was, constant never ending high anxiety. It was always worse earlier in the day but it was on me all day until I fell asleep. Everything was very hard whether it was work, pleasure, TV, reading, etc. When I finally got to the worst I was in constant high anxiety which worsened when I ate, washed, brushed my teeth, you name it.

I've always seen it as a typical GAD thing. It's sensitisation.

I know others on here who have been through this too. So, you are far from alone with it.

[pulisa]

Too true. You certainly aren't alone in this.

[dfoxworth]

That's exactly how I was, constant never ending high anxiety. It was always worse earlier in the day but it was on me all day until I fell asleep. Everything was very hard whether it was work, pleasure, TV, reading, etc. When I finally got to the worst I was in constant high anxiety which worsened when I ate, washed, brushed my teeth, you name it.

I've always seen it as a typical GAD thing. It's sensitisation.

I know others on here who have been through this too. So, you are far from alone with it.

Same here Terry. The constant high anxiety that worsens when I try to do anything! How did you get over it? Were you on meds? I was just prescribed Sertaline (Zoloft) today. I am hoping it will work.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Same here Terry. The constant high anxiety that worsens when I try to do anything! How did you get over it? Were you on meds? I was just prescribed Sertaline (Zoloft) today. I am hoping it will work.

Hi, sorry I forget to get back to you and just remembered by seeing you
logged on.

I was on Duloxetine (still am) and it wasn't a good med for me so it was quite a long time to get myself out of constant anxiety, quite some months. It plagued me for years but not all the time (I have regular periods of blips) and the intensity is much less.

I hope it helps you. It's certainly possible to get better. The first time around I was on Citalopram and that did help me much more. So, much has happened since I started taking Duloxetine, which triggered my OCD, so it's not like it's a typical scenario.