exercise, does it relieve symptoms?

[busterrufus]

I keep reading that exercise helps get rid of anxiety symptoms. Although I am very unfit and older I have been trying gentle exercise (15 min walk, gentle stretching) for over 2 weeks with no effect on symptoms. Has anyone found it works? I didn't want to overdo it at the start as I had been virtually housebound for 4 months due to anxiety. Some websites advise running or brisk walking for 1/2 hour which would be impossible for me at the moment. However, need I start doing more now, or does it not really have any effect? I would appreciate advice from people who have tried exercise.

I,m also scared of it making my symptoms worse. Sometimes even after this light exercise my legs ache and twitch more.

[Fishmanpa]

Anxiety or not, feeling better physically leads to feeling better mentally.

Positive thoughts

[busterrufus]

I agree with you entirely. I know exercise produces endorphins which make you feel good, I wondered if anyone had actually experienced a reduction in adrenaline produced symptoms through regular exercise eg muscle pain, tingles, rushes etc.

[Phuzella]

Your legs are bound to ache and twitch after being housebound for months. Don't give up, keep going and increase length and speed of your walks gradually :)
Get a phone app that counts your steps, I find it very helpful.

[busterrufus]

Thanks phuzella, did you find that it helped get rid of anxiety symptoms produced by excess adrenaline? That's what I'm aiming for, along with increased fitness of course .

[Bearinmind]

I'm a great believer in exercise for anxiety and depression, I have used myself I can guarantee that it definitely works.

But it's not a panacea either, people have to keep that in mind. For someone on the height of his anxiety, exercise can make it worse. Not because the exercise itself is bad, but the immediate aftereffects or exercise: fatigue, lack of muscle control, some lightheartedness, numbness, exercise induced asthma/lung irritation, maybe some completely normal palpitation. For someone very very anxious this minor fatigue state will sound the anxiety alarm bells and put the person further into anxiety, fearing that their fatigue is abnormal or too much for a healthy person.

However, if you can cope with these aftereffects, like, just go lay down and watch something for an hour or two after exercising, it is certainly for the better. As you said, exercise will force your body to release a lot of endorphins and calm yourself down. It will also help to prevent panic attacks, or at least reduce their strength, by causing a minor adrenal fatigue for the rest of the day. It's also good way to show to yourselves that our body can cope with stress, that our body can be healthy and strong, it's good for self-esteem.

An anxious person just have to remind himself that what he feels after exercising is normal. Anxious people might actually even have some more fatigue symptoms than normal people, like a really strong weakness and lack of muscle control, some tingling and twitching, with jerky movements and sleepness. But these extra symptoms tend to get weaker and weaker the more your exercise.

And obviously, if you gonna exercise you will need more energy, so eat and drink more!

[Phuzella]

Yes definitely. Can you walk in a park or the countryside? Go out for longer and have a sit down half way. Take in your surroundings. Quieten your mind. Take it easy but increase gradually.
Don't give up :shades:

---------- Post added at 21:37 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

Drink more water and eat healthy

[Ditapage]

Walking is excellent for anxiety. Our problem is adrenaline so moving always helps. Using it in exercise forms is an appropriate use of adrenaline so it doesn't strike us when we don't want it to. Like waiting at a red light for example. One doctor told me "anxiety is like your body exercising when you're not." It's like your body WANTS to be active. That made me see things differently.

I've seen this work instantly. The other day I had a horrible painless heaviness on my chest and felt like I couldn't breathe deeply so I started exercising and I could breathe fine. As soon as I was idle, the anxiety came back. So it does help!

[busterrufus]

Thanks for your replies. Its nice to get advice from people who have first hand experience of trying exercise to rid themselves of symptoms.

Bearinmind , I see what you mean about feeling worse after exercise. I,ve just been for a 20 minute walk and didn't think I,d get back! I feel so sick now and my calves are twitching and burning. I,ll have a rest now as you advised. I can,t help feeling disappointed tho, to feel so ill after a short walk . I can feel my anxiety has risen.

[Bearinmind]

The first time is always the worst. After that it just keeps getting better and better.

In one of my bouts of anxiety I had developed agoraphobia so I got bedridden for a whole month. Would only get up to go to the computer, eat or drink. By the time I started to feel psychologically better I was already developing a common minor form of muscle and nerve atrophy, more nerve than muscle. Just standing upright was an effort, I felt my knees would pop out anytime. The anxiety came back stronger than before as I felt I was losing mental control over my body, thoughts of serious neurological diseases rushed over my mind in an instant.

I am as stingy cheap as I am anxious though, so instead of rushing to the neurologist and getting a physiotherapist, I decided to do some simple muscle exercise at home. I would try (emphasis on trying) to do 10 wall push-ups, 5 assisted squats, and 10 bridges. I would get up from the bed, put my hand on the wall and try to do the push-ups. 5 seconds going down to the bottom position, spent 1 second on the bottom position, then 5 seconds going up to the top position. Rinse and repeat.

The first time I tried to do it I could only go to 7 wall push-ups and by the third push up my muscle were already shaking and trembling like a vibrator.

What is interesting is that my atrophy was more on the nerves than on the muscles. I would do push-ups till I couldn't do anymore, till I thought that if I tried to do one more I would fail and drop, I could barely contract my muscle anymore. But despite that, on the following day my muscles would feel fine. No soreness, no burning or whatsoever.

Later I learned that was because the nerve that connect my muscle to my brain/spine would deplete themselves of resources and fatigue out before my muscle fibers could tear themselves apart. When you exercise, the nerves that send contracting signals to the muscles also fatigue themselves out temporarily, and can't send a strong signal anymore. Your muscles start to be controlled by a very small number of nerves that are sending faulty contracting signal, because the nerves themselves are tired, and that is what causes the twitching and trembling you feel when exercising and many hours after it. After some good resting the nerves all come back to normal, and this time, more resilient than before.

What I observed from other people suffering from anxiety is that an anxious mind state is very tasking on the peripheral neural system. It's probably the reason why we feel dizzy, with twitchy muscles and jerky movements, as well as the general feeling of fatigue. My guess is that the anxious/stressed state burns and depletes the nutrient resources that your body would use for good neurological functioning, probably some magnesium and the whole range of B complex. Mind you that I don't have enough evidence to back that up, it's just a guess.

Regardless of the cause, it is something that is easy to get back. Nerves compensate, respond to stimuli and fix themselves up much faster than muscles, in about a week you already start feeling much better. On my second day trying to do wall push up I already managed to do a 10 wall push-up session. Got a hell lot fatigued up but I managed to do it.

The first time I tried was the worst, I got so fatigued that I started to feel I was developing Parkinson giving the scale of my arm shaking after the exercise, couldn't hold a glass of water, I became very clumsy for the rest of the day, lots of jerky arm movements. But after I rested and went back to at least a functional state I felt much better. Better that I have felt in months!

From my experience on exercise it seems to me that "muscle" resistance exercise if more effective on fighting anxiety than cardiovascular (aerobic) exercise. Probably because resistance training releases more endorphins and trains your peripheral neural system faster than aerobic exercise, that's why I advice people to just exercise at home doing some simple calisthenics, even for women (ladies, you don't have enough testosterone to develop bulky muscles, you can be assured you will not get ugly by doing some resistance training). Going for a walk is hard on people with some level of agoraphobia, and cardio is a more of a metabolical exercise, rising up the heart and lung eficiency than it is a muscle or neural exercise (you don't see people on physiotherapy running around, do you?). Aerobic exercise is good to tire out your adrenal gland, so it doesn't release much adrenaline for the rest of the day, avoiding panic attacks, but it doesn't do much for the anxiety state itself. I believe muscle exercise is better because of that: more endorphins, more neurological compensation. Doing a good set of muscle exercises can even fix the posture and cure tension headaches, back pain, neck pain, leg pain, the lot.

Either way, some exercise, any exercise, is better than no exercise. Just keep doing, keep trying every day, and don't forget to eat well, eat healthy, you gonna need extra energy for the exercise. If you keep doing it everyday, day by day the fatigue symptoms will get better and better.

[busterrufus]

Thank you Bearinmind for such a comprehensive reply.
Even before this bout of anxiety I was unfit and I have never had much knowledge about exercise. I have never done any of the exercises you mentioned and I would guess that I,m far older than you, so I,m prepared that it will probably take longer for me to improve.
You have helped me to be understand how nerve and muscle weakness can occur during sedentary periods caused by anxiety, and also which type of exercises should help. I,m going to look up some muscle resistance exercises and try them, as well as continuing with my walking.
I lost over one and a half stones due to nausea and lack of appetite so I am really trying to eat as much nourishing food as I possibly can. I,ve also been supplementing magnesium and vit b complex for a few weeks,so I,ll carry on.
I do admit that I need lots of reassurance at the moment as I get overwhelmed by my physical symptoms. I have found a lot of advice on the forum.
Thanks again Bearinmind, I,m sure I,ll read your reply many times to make sure I am on the right track. It is so important to get advice from people who have relevant personal experience and strategies for overcoming symptoms. Best wishes.

P.s. 4 hours later my calves are still jangling!

[Phuzella]

How old are you if you don't mind me asking? :)

[busterrufus]

Hello phuzella, I,m 61, female.

[Bearinmind]

Hah, sometimes my body would only get better the other day, after a night of sleep, and still somewhat clunky.

Giving your age, you should probably start with smaller goals than I did, your joints may be a little stiff. The exercise will help to fix them up, that's how you heal joint problems, by moving them around, slowly. Joints don't have much blood veins in them, so they get their nutrition to get healthy when you move them around, forcing your body to lubricate them. That natural lubrication cleans them up and nourishes them with the resources they need.

Also, try not to do much force when doing the muscle exercises, they can be though if you don't have a good diet. Start very gently.

The aerobic exercises will do much good to you, as someone in your age your body welcomes that extra metabolic efficiency, just don't push yourself too hard.

And don't be bummed out by your age and physical fitness, I have seen 70 year olds who would put me to shame, you just need to get to that slowly.

[busterrufus]

Thankfully no problem with joints, its the muscles and nerves that are acting up.
Thanks for your advice Bearinmind.

[Bearinmind]

If it just the muscle and the nerves then I suggest to go easy on the leg and back exercises. If your arms get jittery all day long that's not much a problem, but if the exercise gets you bed ridden for the rest of the day that's not ideal. Once I exaggerated on the bridges... my lower back wanted to kill me on the following day, I could barely stand up.

How is your blood pressure and diet?

[busterrufus]

Blood pressure usually ok. I,m trying to eat healthily, not yet eating enough tho. I,m taking supplements. I drink plenty of water, fruit juice ,black,chamomile and redbush teas.

[ankietyjoe]

Later I learned that was because the nerve that connect my muscle to my brain/spine would deplete themselves of resources and fatigue out before my muscle fibers could tear themselves apart. When you exercise, the nerves that send contracting signals to the muscles also fatigue themselves out temporarily, and can't send a strong signal anymore. Your muscles start to be controlled by a very small number of nerves that are sending faulty contracting signal, because the nerves themselves are tired, and that is what causes the twitching and trembling you feel when exercising and many hours after it. After some good resting the nerves all come back to normal, and this time, more resilient than before.



I read your post with great interest, but could you reveal the source of the knowledge in this paragraph?

A lot of what you said rings true with me, mostly due to a prolonged self imposed sedentary period after an exercise induced episode of tachycardia a couple of years back. My heart was fine, but psychologically I developed a deep seated fear of exercise.

Oh the irony, being sedentary is possibly the worst thing you can do to your heart! :doh:

Anyway, when I try and exercise now I feel fatigued immediately, but also an odd trembling/shuddering sensation that I've always instinctively felt was nerve related and not muscle related.

[Bearinmind]

Blood pressure usually ok. I,m trying to eat healthily, not yet eating enough tho. I,m taking supplements. I drink plenty of water, fruit juice ,black,chamomile and redbush teas.

Then you're good to go, milady!


I read your post with great interest, but could you reveal the source of the knowledge in this paragraph? You can find that knowledge by searching for "Motor Units (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_unit)", it's the scientific name given for the "muscle + nerves" part of the human anatomy, it's what outputs muscle contractile power.

The explanation for why your muscles twtich, jerk and tremble is very well resumed here (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-muscles-tremble-af/), much better explanation than I could give to you myself.

If you have a fear that exercise can induce a cardiac event on you then you'll be fine with muscle resistance training. Done slowly, it bears no weight on your heart, your heart rate doesn't go much higher than when you're having a panic attack. Just be prepared to lie down after the exercise session, you gonna feel very weak and sleepy for some hours on the first runs.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Buster,

You are doing fine. I have been walking daily for 10 years now, except when in work where it was only when not there. I have stayed in more at weekends now, my OCD otherwise was creating a need to have to walk to avoid being in. But when I broke this latter problem that resulted from my original healthy walks, which I did by staying in for 4 months solid one year, I noticed my cardio had significantly dropped.

That's was after years of daily walking for hours a day. It demonstrated to me the importance of regularity.

You will get there if you just keep building it up.

And if your calves are aching, how about spraying some of that magnesium on? It works for muscle fatigue.

Exercise will reduce adrenaline levels, it's one of the two mechanisms intended to do that along with deep breathing. Both of these cause excess adrenaline to be metabolised into other chemicals that the body needs. I know this works for me as I've tried it when my adrenaline levels start spiking from the med I'm on (long story). However, greater levels of exercise will mean adrenaline production so going hell for leather in a high intensity exercise may be counter productive until you are ready for it. So, walking and cycling get a mention for mental health for obvious reasons. Also, being outside boosts mood too. Any exercise will help you sleep deeper, there have been studies of those who exercise to show this.



---------- Post added at 07:06 ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 ----------


Then you're good to go, milady!

You can find that knowledge by searching for "Motor Units (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_unit)", it's the scientific name given for the "muscle + nerves" part of the human anatomy, it's what outputs muscle contractile power.

The explanation for why your muscles twtich, jerk and tremble is very well resumed here (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-muscles-tremble-af/), much better explanation than I could give to you myself.

If you have a fear that exercise can induce a cardiac event on you then you'll be fine with muscle resistance training. Done slowly, it bears no weight on your heart, your heart rate doesn't go much higher than when you're having a panic attack. Just be prepared to lie down after the exercise session, you gonna feel very weak and sleepy for some hours on the first runs.

I enjoyed reading your posts, Bear.

On the link there is this bit:

Both these areas require the synthesis and release of particular chemicals to carry the electrical impulse across to either another nerve cell or a muscle cell. Researchers generally believe that the chemical cannot be manufactured and released fast enough to keep up with the level of activity, so it becomes depleted in this area of transmission. The depletion of these chemicals is a big part of what fatigue means in a biochemical sense.

This might be where ATP comes in. Energy is needed in harder exercise and it depletes very quickly, which may be what they are saying here. This is why people working out dose up on things like ATP, creatine, etc. There are others too. Maybe that will fill in some more blanks if you have a read unless you've already been through it?

I didn't know what you were explaining but I have read about energy to muscles in exercise in the past from my lifting days.

Also, there is something about how the levels of cortisol significantly increase in hard exercise lasting over an hour. Something else to perhaps have a look at? This could be very relevant to a lot of us starting out with exercise until we have greater tolerance for the closeness of it's anxiety-like physical sensations (something I have many struggles with myself, some beaten, others still WIP).

[ankietyjoe]

You can find that knowledge by searching for "Motor Units (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_unit)", it's the scientific name given for the "muscle + nerves" part of the human anatomy, it's what outputs muscle contractile power.

The explanation for why your muscles twtich, jerk and tremble is very well resumed here (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-do-muscles-tremble-af/), much better explanation than I could give to you myself.

If you have a fear that exercise can induce a cardiac event on you then you'll be fine with muscle resistance training. Done slowly, it bears no weight on your heart, your heart rate doesn't go much higher than when you're having a panic attack. Just be prepared to lie down after the exercise session, you gonna feel very weak and sleepy for some hours on the first runs.

Thanks for the links. I'll get stuck into those later in the day.

In my case it's resistance training that causes the issue. I seem to have huge adrenaline surges/reactions 3-4 hours after doing anything mildly strenuous. I'm ok with light aerobic training as my heart rate will go up/down as it should.....within reason.

My best guess so far (based on research and consultation) is that a severely stressed body can perceive resistance training as damage and react almost as if in shock. I've experienced the process happening time and time again, but the medical professionals I've spoken to have done little more than shrug and mumble 'stress', 'you need to relax' etc etc so I'm left doing my own investigations!

Thanks again.

[busterrufus]

Thanks terry, yes I have been using magnesium oil on my legs for several weeks now with no improvement. Lots of people say it works instantaneously, but not for me.

Bearinmind, I keep re-reading your posts as I expected I would. This morning my anxiety is really full on as I woke up with calves full on twitching, burning etc. I,ve had it for months now, you seemed to get rid of your nerve/ muscle symptoms quite quickly. Today I feel really down with it, thinking it,ll never go. I,m thinking it works for other people, but it won't work for me. I know that,s very negative thinking and I really don't want to think like that. I,ll look up some muscle resistance exercises on internet. Thanks.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Thanks for the links. I'll get stuck into those later in the day.

In my case it's resistance training that causes the issue. I seem to have huge adrenaline surges/reactions 3-4 hours after doing anything mildly strenuous. I'm ok with light aerobic training as my heart rate will go up/down as it should.....within reason.

My best guess so far (based on research and consultation) is that a severely stressed body can perceive resistance training as damage and react almost as if in shock. I've experienced the process happening time and time again, but the medical professionals I've spoken to have done little more than shrug and mumble 'stress', 'you need to relax' etc etc so I'm left doing my own investigations!

Thanks again.

Well resistance training causes damage, micro tears in the muscles, the repairing of this is the growth.

Are you knocking back any supplements? Whey protein seems to cause anxiety spikes in some people and BCAA's get a mention. Maybe part of the early recovery process where the body has a window to get nutrients in quickly is relevant?

Anything about training means experts rather than doctors. Doctors often don't understand the bodybuilding world and they are always at odds with those conducting research. Try asking a doctor how much protein you need to build muscle and they are way off the reality.

[ankietyjoe]

Well resistance training causes damage, micro tears in the muscles, the repairing of this is the growth.

Are you knocking back any supplements? Whey protein seems to cause anxiety spikes in some people and BCAA's get a mention. Maybe part of the early recovery process where the body has a window to get nutrients in quickly is relevant?

Anything about training means experts rather than doctors. Doctors often don't understand the bodybuilding world and they are always at odds with those conducting research. Try asking a doctor how much protein you need to build muscle and they are way off the reality.

Many moons ago I used to weight train regularly so the mechanisms are very familiar to me. When I say resistance training these days I mean anything that exerts muscle at all. I do zero 'actual' weight training. For example a few weeks back I had a pile of rubbish that needed taking to the local tip, which involved carrying no more than 10kg up and down a 50ft alleyway into the back of the car. 15 minutes of this and I was literally shaking on the sofa, and later that day the adrenaline spikes/heartrate started.

Nowadays I laugh in the face of anxiety, panic isn't an issue. It's the physical reactions that I have absolutely no control over that piss me off the most.

As for supplements, I take (good quality) Vit C, Magnesium Citrate, B complex and pantothenic acid. I've only been taking them regularly for 6 weeks so it's difficult to tell at this point whether it's helping or not. I'm also aware that all RDA figures are based on the minimum level needed to keep a healthy person from becoming ill. For example Vit C levels were set hundreds of years ago to prevent sailors from getting scurvy, so not really relevant to the needs of a recovering stress/anxiety sufferer.

I also started using Curcumin (the active extract of turmeric) as I have a pal who is heavily (no pun) into bodybuilding who recommended it to me. It's a powerful natural anti inflammatory/all round wonder supplement, but it does make me feel nauseous. I'll try and take it again soon and see how I get on.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of this is self inflicted because I spent so much time immobile, but recovery is still elusive!


Thanks terry, yes I have been using magnesium oil on my legs for several weeks now with no improvement. Lots of people say it works instantaneously, but not for me.

Bearinmind, I keep re-reading your posts as I expected I would. This morning my anxiety is really full on as I woke up with calves full on twitching, burning etc. I,ve had it for months now, you seemed to get rid of your nerve/ muscle symptoms quite quickly. Today I feel really down with it, thinking it,ll never go. I,m thinking it works for other people, but it won't work for me. I know that,s very negative thinking and I really don't want to think like that. I,ll look up some muscle resistance exercises on internet. Thanks.

Don't despair. I think people respond and react to many different forms of recovery, and recovery can also take a very long time.

I've read many times that the best form of starting exercise is walking, and that's how I always begin!

Listen to your body though. Overdoing things can be just as detrimental as doing nothing in my opinion.

[busterrufus]

Thanks anxietyjoe, I,m feeling a wreck and it has made me think its not worth it. Any little increase in anxiety or exercise and I suffer so much . A lot of people might think the aches and pains can't be too bad, but they are horrible and very scary. Going to have to take painkillers which I hate doing. Diazepam helps a bit but Dr can't give me any more.

[Bearinmind]

Buster, what meds do you take for anxiety?

Also, one thing to mind, is that people in your age, specially sedentary people on your age, have a slower metabolism, so it'll take you more time to recover fully.

Given what you reported, it seems you had some real muscle training as well, not just the nerves. The burning sensation is a classic feeling that your muscle really got worked up, rather than just your nerves, and muscle do take longer to recover. Sometimes I had muscle soreness that lasted for 5 days till it finally stopped. You gave a cranking to your calves, 20 minutes is big stuff for someone just starting it. When I started doing aerobic exercise I did only 5 to 8 minutes, if I went for 10 or 15 I would feel really bad on the following days.

Also, taking vitamin supplements it's good, keep doing it, but sometimes they're not enough. Either because your body is not absorbing them well enough or because they lack those tiny little nutrients that make all the difference (so really, even taking more vitamin wouldn't do much of a difference). I would suggest for you to give a read on my reply to this post ( http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=186045 ), it shows how you can better your diet and improve your food absorption. You need a good diet to recover well from exercise.


This might be where ATP comes in. Energy is needed in harder exercise and it depletes very quickly, which may be what they are saying here. This is why people working out dose up on things like ATP, creatine, etc. There are others too. Maybe that will fill in some more blanks if you have a read unless you've already been through it?

I didn't know what you were explaining but I have read about energy to muscles in exercise in the past from my lifting days.

Also, there is something about how the levels of cortisol significantly increase in hard exercise lasting over an hour. Something else to perhaps have a look at? This could be very relevant to a lot of us starting out with exercise until we have greater tolerance for the closeness of it's anxiety-like physical sensations (something I have many struggles with myself, some beaten, others still WIP). ATP is definitely one of those chemicals, and magnesium takes a big role in making it. But there's more than that. Even the muscle themselves have to stockpile on contractile protein that control the strength of their contraction. Actin on the muscles and Myosin on the nerves, for example. Calcium ions are also very important. It's a very complex subject that I don't understand fully, to be frank.

The cortisol thing is real. I can't find the paper now but that was discovered when people started to notice that marathonists who finished the race were more prone to get sick with infectious diseases, like the flu or the common cold, than people who didn't finished the race.

The reason for that is really the cortisol and the oxidative stress. Cortisol will increase inflammatory response and lower the efficiency of your immune cells, so you're more prone to get sick.

I should stress out however it only happens in very strenuous prolonged exercise, like a marathon. The rule of thumb for this cortisol induced weakness is the one hour rule. You should not exercise for more than an hour in a single session. Nobody needs that much exercise, and if you're taking that much time to exercise you are not exercising properly. Even very advanced athletes should not perform strenuous exercise for more than an hour.


In my case it's resistance training that causes the issue. I seem to have huge adrenaline surges/reactions 3-4 hours after doing anything mildly strenuous. I'm ok with light aerobic training as my heart rate will go up/down as it should.....within reason. Hum... in your case you should always do aerobic exercise before trying resistance training later in the day. The aerobic exercise will fatigue your adrenal gland so it can't secret much adrenaline for the rest of the day, it gets easier to control the panic.

People have all different ranges of heart rate, because they have different sizes in body size and actual heart size, but these are some of my values, just so you have an idea:

In relaxed rest position, sitting or laying down it's always between 75~ to 95~ BPM.

90~ to 120~ while standing up. Up to 135~ when I'm dehydrated and weak.

When doing aerobic exercise, it starts on 110~ and can go up to 165~, usually around 150~.

While doing resistance exercise, it hovers around 135~.

When in panic, it's always above 100, not matter what position. In an medium panic attack it's around 125~, in a strong one it can go up to a 170~.

I'm 6 feet tall so my heart rate is a little lower than textbook normal. Smaller people, specially women, tend to have a faster heart rate and still be normal and healthy.

From my values above, you can see why I say muscle training is really light on the heart. From the way your heart rate sparks after the exercise, it really does look like that it's an adrenaline spike induced by fear and anxiousness.

But still, I would still suggest for you to give it a try on the exercises I mentioned, specially the wall push-up. You don't even need to do the squats and bridges now, just do the wall push-ups and see how you react.

Body weight exercises are on a very special class of it's own, it's no regular weight lifting because the weight you're lifting is your own body weight, it's much more natural and less damaging than having to lift an external weight. It's never too much or too little weight, it's always on the spot, because it's your own body. It's great not just for the muscle, but the nerves and the joints as well, because you move your body so much compared to weight lifting. It's great for neural control and training, specially if you do with your eyes closed. This will force your body to rely its sense of positioning on its nerve receptors alone and that will make for a better proprioception.

Weight lifting is good to target the muscles but it's not that great for functional training. Have a look on advanced bodybuilders for example. These guys can lift hundreds of kilos in one single motion, but if you ask them to help move some furniture around they'll moan all the way through (even though their muscles are strong, they have no neural and joint control to balance uneven heavy objects), they live constantly on joint pain, because their weight lifting motion is not natural, it doesn't train their joints. They become muscle bound and can't even stretch themselves properly, something simple as combing their hair becomes an impossible task, and if you ask them to drop down and do 10 handstand one arm push-up they'll say you're insane. It's all show. Not saying bodybuilding is useless, I munched on their literature to learn about physical culture, but it's not really great for functional training, which is what people like us need. Bodyweight training is better, it's more natural, it can be done by virtually anyone, it doesn't need equipment, it's better on the nerves and the joints, it's what they teach you in good physiotherapy and in the army, it's the good stuff.

[busterrufus]

Hello bearinmind, I assume the first part of your last post is directed particularly to me.
I take propranalol and fluoxetine.
Aside from that I took omezaprazole for 5 years, a smallish dose of 20mg daily. My Dr suggested that I no longer needed this about 3 months ago. I have since read that ppi,s can inhibit absorption of nutrients, although maybe only rarely, so I,m happy to be off them.

Thanks for your advice on nutrition. Having a poor appetite must have an effect. A lot of my weight loss seemed to come off my leg muscles. That and being extremely sedentary had really seemed weaken my legs, probably the rest of me too. Initially I was trying to get protein down to help rebuild my leg muscles.
Your suggestion of blending foods is something I will have a go at. I definitely need more leafy greens too.

4 months seems an awfully long time for the severe all over fatigue and leg symptoms to last tho!

Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Best wishes.ruth