View Full Version : can i raise myself above these symptoms
busterrufus
14-07-16, 08:50
I have hardly been going out for months. Tried a short visit to supermarket with husband yesterday. Do not see any friends, see family only when daughter visits, she is 7 months pregnant and I cannot believe I have made her feel so unwilling to see me. It's because she gets upset seeing me so anxious and afraid
Today is my father's 94th birthday. Before anxiety or whatever it is struck again in March, I used to go and see him and take him out probably 4 times a week. Now he has to rely on my brother. I haven't seen or spoken to my dad for about 3 weeks, we get too upset. He is the "keep your chin up" type,which works for him. I am a coward. We have not fallen out, I just can't seem to pretend I,m ok in front of him so we both get upset.
I try as hard as I can to cover up my anxiety in front of my husband as he now says its making him ill.
All this anxiety and worry and fear is inside me and I can't release it or get rid. I have already posted about my problems with exercise. I feel so guilty. I want to be able to see people without upsetting them. I want to see my dad on his birthday. I need some encouragement.
I have just read this back and see that I am ruining the lives of the people I love. This is not how it should be. All because I am weak and afraid. I want to" get a grip". I wish I could. Sometimes in evening I feel a bit better, safer somehow. I dread the feelings I have when I wake up, which can last all day.
If your Dad lives locally is there any way you could get to him just to give him a hug and then take it from there? If you can't go into the house, fair enough, and if you can't talk, it doesn't matter. He won't be able to understand how your anxiety dominates your life at the moment but he will be so pleased just to see you..
Your Dad is so precious and at 94, every birthday is extra special.
busterrufus
14-07-16, 09:09
I know pulisa, that's what makes me feel even more selfish and s bad person. I know in myself that I am trying to protect both o f us from getting upset. I don't know what to do for the best. I think I should see him, I think its what he would want. Don't want to spoil his day tho. He only lives 10 mins drive away. I,m crying now about it. I need to pull myself together, get up , have a cuppa and see how I feel.
Trying to cover up my anxiety and fear doesn't work, I am pathetic at it, I just break down and upset everyone.
I feel like a hamster on a wheel, the more I try and reach for relief , the more frantic I get.
It doesn't matter if you cry-he loves you no matter what. His day won't be spoilt-he just will be so pleased to see you. Don't think too much about it-just try and go? I lost my Dad 2 years ago at 93-make the most of your Dad while you can? You are not letting him down-you think you are but you're not xx
busterrufus
14-07-16, 09:46
Thank you pulisa. I will try.
I do know that I am letting my family down though. I should be strong and overcome my fears, or at the very least put on a brave face. I don't understand why I can't do it for their sakes, I know I am weak and selfish but I have been trying to improve and get better , i have not managed it yet. Inside I am not convinced I will get better, I think that's a big problem.
MyNameIsTerry
14-07-16, 12:50
I agree with pulisa. I think he will appreciate his daughter coming to see him. He knows you are unwell and so will appreciate the effort.
It's one day and even if things are difficult, there are other days in his year that can be used to make things better but I'm sure it will only make his day more special seeing his daughter.
You will kick yourself with a condition like anxiety. It's part of the problem. And we set unachievable & unrealistic goals that just aim to add more pressure and keep us trapped. Honestly, you're not saying anything I haven't myself and I bet we all have.
I used to berate myself for being a burden. Useless, worthless, failure, loser, ungrateful, pathetic, etc. But the thing is, these just lower your mood and you feel depressed. I learnt not to allow these thoughts & feelings to take over and gradually I didn't sink anymore. It's an acceptance thing too. Accept that anxiety has it's stages and that negative thinking is automatic, especially with moods and emotions, and something to overcome through working on ourselves.
This is all part of the condition. As you improve you will find it easier to hide your anxiety so that you don't allow it to impact on others as much. Hide is the wrong word though, control is perhaps better.
Perhaps you are being too hard on yourself? We do it a lot.
Remember "should" is a negative word, we are taught to use "could". The former implies something we feel we have to do so it adds pressure. The latter implies choice, we are in control.
As part of understanding your anxiety, it is worth reading the Cognitive Distortions that we don't realise are impacting on our thinking. I can see plenty of them in your posts. The Wiki page is accurate. We used to go through these at the charity walk-in meetings I used to attend and they helped me to understand where my thinking was going wrong a lot. They were harder to apply to myself at first so I practiced them on others, often on here, to more quickly identify skewed thinking.
I hope you find the courage to see your dad today. But if not, no one here will judge you for it, we've all had our struggles with things like this. It's very hard earlier on.
We are always hardest on ourselves, another element of these types of disorders.
Whatever has happened today I hope that you are feeling a bit calmer this evening. Raising yourself above the symptoms is absolutely crucial in order to manage anxiety but this must seem just too much to attempt at the moment? You could consider therapy or you could challenge yourself when you are totally fed up of being controlled by physical symptoms. Don't do yourself down-you will need strength to manage anxiety and negativity is energy-sapping. No one says it's easy but it's not impossible either and there will always be blips along the way.
busterrufus
14-07-16, 21:28
Pulisa and terry, I went to see my dad this afternoon and I,m so so glad that I did. I stayed for a couple of hours and saw some other family members too. I felt much better when I got home. I am aware that this feeling might not last long, but surely its a start . I,m pleased I made my dad happy.
I want to thank you both for your encouragement, I was doubtful that I should go this morning . It was especially kind of you to describe your own experiences to help me understand what I am going through.
Terry, I have never heard of Cognitive Distortion before, but now I have i will read up on it.
I'm SO pleased to hear that you did so well, busterrufus! Your dad must have been so pleased to see you! And it IS a start!
That must have taken a lot of strength and courage-don't be surprised if you feel worn out tomorrow....but it will have been worth it!
Busrerufus
So glad you visited your dad. It really doesn't matter what age he is you will always be his child. He will always want the best for you and will do his best to guide you in a way sees fit. That sometimes may come over to you as disappointment, but I'm sure that's not true and it's only care and love the feels.
I'm glad you did it for him and he in return lightened your day too x
MyNameIsTerry
15-07-16, 06:18
Well done, buster, you did it all on your own too, remember that! It takes a lot of courage to face these fears and at your early stage in recovery it will be harder.
I'm really glad you enjoyed it too! Staying so long is definitely a big bonus as we tend to be rushing around a lot trying to get through the day.
Now you know you can do it. So, you can do it again and maintain the contact you have lost with your dad because the anxiety has caused you to retreat.
I think the fact you enjoyed it and came back feeling better too is a massive bonus. It could easily have been an anxious event all the way as some things are but you felt the reward and that's very important.
I bet your dad was not only made happy by you making the effort to fight through your fears to see him but that you enjoyed it since he would want to see you happy.
Really well done Buster.
I always find that there is a fine line between expecting too much of ourselves and avoidance and finding the right balance is so hard.
Hopefully this visit will have given you a little bit of your confidence back.
I hope this makes sense, my head is all over the place but I didnt want to pass on by without giving you a huge pat on the back.
busterrufus
15-07-16, 07:59
Thank you all. Best wishes, ruth
My Dad had no real comprehension of mental health issues-he couldn't accept the fact that a very close work colleague committed suicide after his wife died-but he was always so keen to try to help me and was proud of me no matter what. Sometimes we are far too hard on ourselves and think others are judging us in a negative way whereas the opposite may be true...
busterrufus
15-07-16, 18:13
I was so grateful for the help I received from members yesterday.
Pulisa, hopefully younger people are more aware of mental health problems these days, although I,m aware that a lot of ignorance and prejudice still remains. People found these things more difficult to discuss in our parents, time I think.
Although I did have some symptoms while at my dad,s , I coped well with them and don't think anyone noticed.
When I got home I felt slightly euphoric for a couple of hours before things got worse again . I,m not quite sure why this happened but I imagine it was something to do with temporary relief from stress hormones. I didn't expect the feeling to last really, but one always hopes it will. Symptoms are back with a vengeance now, but I have had a reminder of what it's like to feel"normal " again. I will try my best not to be too hard on myself.
I have read on here several times that symptoms can take a long time to go.
I read claire weekes books 30 years ago, but I,ve always had difficulty in " accepting and letting time pass". I suspect some people have success with this and others, not so much. I tend to want to be making active strategies to get myself better all the time and have very little patience with myself.
Thanks once again for helping me make my dad happy on his birthday.
Accepting your symptoms is definitely for the best-getting angry and frustrated with yourself just creates more adrenaline which keeps the anxiety and symptoms going..
Our Dads had to go through a war so their concept of anxiety doesn't tally with ours. I can certainly understand that but the stiff upper lip doesn't work for everyone. I'm sure your Dad is desperate to help you get better and he will get upset because he can't magic up any instant answers to your distress. He obviously cares deeply and I'm sure he's so pleased that you have resumed contact. Don't let anxiety keep you both apart? You are giving anxiety power if you do. Well done again for yesterday- a real achievement despite everything!
MyNameIsTerry
16-07-16, 04:58
Supporting each other is big part of why we are here, Ruth.
You dealt with the symptoms and I think that is massive because when anxiety is really bad, anything can be an issue and there is no letting up. This shows you have the ability to handle it now.
I think there are different reactions. We can be anxious when we return, we can feel relieved or we can feel like we have accomplished something. The latter is more the euphoric reaction because it's more than feeling relived it is over, we are happy about it. This means the reward system must have been triggered which will mean Dopamine being released to make you feel good about it.
On a few threads you have come across as really struggling and not getting any relief with what you are trying BUT in this thread you have found something that helps. I think capitalise on this and use it to get you moving forward with your recovery and the other things might start helping too.
So, perhaps aim your current goals more towards this sense of reward by tackling some things that will encourage you to feel like you did. Does that make sense?
busterrufus
16-07-16, 16:18
Thanks terry, I felt rotten this morning but I asked my husband to drive me to a garden centre and stayed there 15 minutes .
I did it so I could feel that I accomplished something and was hoping it would make me feel better.
It backfired and I feel worse, my legs are burning and twitching and the scary thoughts won,t leave me alone.
My daughter came and she can,t understand why I,m like this after feeling better for a bit on Thurs when I last saw her. I don,t know either. I thought I would at least have a bit of symptom relief, because of dopamine release from accomplishing something. But really I didn't accomplish anything if I felt rubbish all the time I was doing it, did I?
I,m so confused from trying to take everything in and apply it, my mind just can,t seem to hold on the positive information, the horrible physical sensations override it.
I just want to feel a bit better again. I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but has anyone experienced similar. Because all I can think about is my symptoms (selfish, but I don't know how to stop) I am convinced I am the only one like this.
I feel so scared because I did think I would start feeling a bit better and this might even feel than before. Sorry for rambling.
I know some people have told me I,m trying too hard, but it honestly feels like I, m just trying a bit, don't think I have the energy to try harder.
I've certainly experienced all you are describing. The symptoms are very real. But they are not significant in terms of physical disease and you still believe they are. It's very early days for you in your recovery but your automatic reaction to the symptoms will be one of panic so the cycle goes on..
When you are tired and low it's very hard to treat the symptoms with disdain and boredom.
busterrufus
16-07-16, 19:08
Did you really experience this pulisa? I think you are stronger than I am.
Can you remember what was most effective in overcoming your anxiety symptoms?
I am trying hard not to google. To be honest, looking at old posts on nmp is making me freak out, putting thoughts back in my head when I read other people,s fears. I.m lying on the bed trying to relax and not think about the pains, but its not working.
I have had therapy in the past but not found it very effective, the best one was mindfulness and I try and practice every day, even if it's just a 3 minute session. I find it hard to relax enough to allow myself to concentrate.
---------- Post added at 19:08 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ----------
Feel unbelievable bad. how can I actually feel worse agin. I felt better for a few hours Thurs. Is this normal ithought I would gradually get better bitby bit not s go back.
This is all totally normal hun.
Unfortunately recovery is rarely a straight road. It tends to be a series of peaks and troughs.
Please don't be disheartened, you had a really good day on Thursday and that shows that you can have more of them.
Blips are inevitable, and not anything to worry about.
Don't let today put you off, keep plugging away and it will get easier.
Elen
busterrufus
16-07-16, 19:38
Will it really? I just gone really far down again. I don't know what to do ortry. I can't tell anyone at home they will not understand, I am trying. So I said I,m having a lie down and shut bedrooom door
---------- Post added at 19:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:32 ----------
Elen did you find it really hard?
---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------
Elen did you find it really hard?
Quite normal, Ruth. The mind plays horrible tricks on you when you allow the thoughts in. I've had neurological tests in hospital, gastric symptoms, throat investigations, weird sensations and sensory disturbances everywhere...I "just" tell my symptoms to do their worst-I'm not afraid of them and they are boring..
It eventually lessens them but not immediately. Extremely high levels of arousal don't vanish overnight-it takes time, belief and lessening levels of anxiety to help the symptoms to diminish. It's certainly not something which happens quickly but you must believe that your symptoms are benign and not a threat to your life. Believe me, I've been in this quagmire but am still here to tell the tale....
---------- Post added at 19:44 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------
And PLEASE try not to google or compare symptoms with previous posters-it's lethal and totally counterproductive to improvement.
---------- Post added at 19:46 ---------- Previous post was at 19:44 ----------
You are naturally terrified of your symptoms, Ruth, but you must try to allow yourself to accept them for what they are-harmless physical symptoms of anxiety
busterrufus
16-07-16, 21:05
Thankyou pulisa. I am still afraid of them and I get agitated and tense against them. I will try to be stronger and pay them less attention.
I did not revert to googling as I know it will make things worse. I will not look at older posts either.
Maybe I am too impatient . Ooh I ll try and get thinking straight. I should have enough experience to get of this.
Best wishes.
I don't think it's a question of being stronger. More trying not to react so acutely. Acknowledging your symptoms but not giving them undue attention.
busterrufus
16-07-16, 22:13
Thankyou.
busterrufus
17-07-16, 13:23
It's so awful. Yes I do have that automatic reaction to symptoms. The moment I wake up and most of the day. Takes hours to get up.
Don't know how to get off fear cycle.
I thought I would start feeling a little better after Thursday,even if it was just a little but the good feeling went. I'm glad I did it formy dads sake but at moment ifeel worse.
Is making myself go for a short walk agood idea. I feel scred to meet anyone. Also scared to make it worse. Sitting here on my own thinking, I feel like a dog with a bone, worrying it all the time. Don't know if this makes sense.
It does very much make sense. Having too much time on your hands gives you plenty of time to ruminate. Can anyone go out with you for a short walk just to give you moral support?
busterrufus
17-07-16, 13:42
Yes it does. Too much thinking time.
When my husband gets back. I,ll ask him to walk with me for 10 mins.
Start small-whatever you can manage will be progress. But I would advise keeping up the short walks on a daily basis and gradually building up your time outside when you feel safe to do so. You have to make walking outside a routine thing again as opposed to something to be feared. Don't rush things
busterrufus
17-07-16, 16:25
I spent an hour sweating and feeling sick, waiting for my husband to come home, then went for a slow 10 minute walk, which is the most I can do at the moment. Since I got back I have felt sick and sweaty and with achy legs, good grief!
I have had some good advice on the forum about not pushing my exercise. But I feel bad when don't do any, bad when ido. So I might as well do some. Just got to get it right. It does worry me that it hurts. Then that worry must cause more stress? Then I start to doubt whether I,m doing the right thing. Ifeel like a coiled spring again. Iwish I could see a bit of light light at end of the tunnel.
I think I am going mad, sweating aching nauseous feeling of dread. Iwant to scream or cry to release it.
Do stress hormones really affect you all day like this
there must be limit to how long it can go on for.
I can't do much of exercise which is one of the main think things which helps. I'm ramblin, so agitated. Think I kep forgetting to brathe
I don't mean it helps me I mean its supposed to help. I keep checking to seeif my muscle are tense sometimes I can see they are. Can you be tense muscles an not even realise?
You're overthinking this and just focussing on your symptoms, Ruth. It doesn't matter if you're achy and nauseous-it's all tense muscles and anxiety. We tense our muscles subconsciously when anxious. I'm not going to compare my symptoms with yours because it isn't helpful but I will say that nothing you have described seems alarming. You're in that spiralling anxiety treadmill and are completely focussed on your symptoms-I know distraction is impossible like this.
You aren't in any danger although your mind thinks you are and this is why you're so agitated. Is there anything you can do that you still enjoy or have you lost all interest in things you used to like? Can you ring your Dad for a brief chat or would this be too distressing? I don't expect you can concentrate on much?
busterrufus
17-07-16, 19:27
Thankyou for replying pulisa.
With anxiety in the past, my muscle pain was in my arms, head neck and chest. These are more acceptable symptoms to me now as they appear in all the books about anxiety. I can actually feel tension there now but not pain, which I find strange for me. Not that I want pain there, but I,m spooked by it changing position after years.
I can tell that you understand an awful lot of what's happening to me, sorry if it's happened to you but I know you are speaking from experience and appreciate that. A "spiralling anxiety treadmill" is exactly how it feels, I compared it a hamster who can't get off his wheel.
You are right I can't find distraction. I put lion king on tv to give me something to watch but had to turn it off when his father died as I got too upset. Ridiculous. I love to read but I'm reading the same page over and over but not taking it in.
By coincidence my dad did ring me earlier on and I spoke to him for a couple of minutes
I cried a bit but I don't think he noticed.
Being self focused drives people away. My family don't want to hear the same moans over again they just want me happy but can,t getme to stop thinking like this. I need to find something positive to think about, I know that but as soon as I start thinking about things/people I enjoy the negative thoughts push their way in like a bully I can,t stand up against.
I really do think that if a person has not felt like this, they can,t understand that's why I joined the forum after lurking for years.
But people do make their way out of it don't they?
.
Yes they do..as you will as well. It may not seem like it at the moment but with the right approach you will. Don't despair..you're doing fine. keep talking to your Dad-he cares deeply and just wants contact with you
busterrufus
17-07-16, 19:58
I hope so. If I can just do the right things. Thanks pulisa I will keep in contact with my dad, I just don't like upsetting him.
He will be more upset if you shut yourself away and don't contact him?
busterrufus
18-07-16, 00:39
Yes, I don't want that.
---------- Post added at 23:16 ---------- Previous post was at 20:07 ----------
Aw no here it id again nsusea legs pain and burning. Feeling I sm dying. . When I go to bed it will be samein morning. Adrenaline? Can it do this. It cant be that mo one talks about it doing this just feel like I,m dying. Someone plarsr it cant be anxiety its lasting to long.twitching feel sick.
---------- Post added 18-07-16 at 00:15 ---------- Previous post was 17-07-16 at 23:16 ----------
Never want that to happen again. Happend twice one like after shock. Arms twitch ed to . Toes still crampy . Scared of going to sleep. Don't know why that happened I felt a bit better earlier. I don't want to wake my hubsnd I knoy he will say I'm panicking. Plz anyone tell me if it happened to you
---------- Post added at 00:39 ---------- Previous post was at 00:15 ----------
I'm so scared about it. I,m on propranalol so it can't be a panic attack. I'm really scared if it happened to anyone please tell me. I can't relax. Please
Pulisa had helped me and I felt a bit better but had felt bad all day. Well felt bad for days really.
Bearinmind
18-07-16, 00:54
Hang in there buster!
Propranalol isn't an anti-panic attack, it reduces anxiety and has been proven to cure it, but it's not effective on everyone. Also, if you keep feeding the anxiety no med will work on you (I know this from experience). Meds are meant to help you control your thoughts, they make it easier, but if you keep feeding the anxiety your anxiety will just suppress the meds.
You don't need to be in the middle of a panic attack to experience anxiety symptoms (focusing on them will cause a panic attack, however). Muscle twitches are one of the most common anxiety symptoms. Fear of sleep is also common in anxiety as sleep might feel like dying, but it's common, it's normal. You have been sleeping every day your whole life, there is nothing unnatural or dangerous to it. Crampy, numb, difficult to move toes is also common in panic attacks and after exercise.
Try to calm down, go watch something you love, do breathing exercises, go eat something. It will be hard on the first minutes, it won't appear to be working, you might even feel the symptoms stronger, but insist on it a little longer and the symptoms should reduce in intensity.
Shazamataz
18-07-16, 00:54
Buster you have to find a way to stop focusing on your symptoms. I can see you are very distressed and I totally get it. I'm in and out of that fairly constantly recently. But find something to do, even for a few minutes to focus on something else. I find having a shower helps as I really enjoy it and the water on your skin can distract from all the other sensations. Give it a go?
busterrufus
18-07-16, 01:04
Thanks both. I go try a horlicks and try calm down and relax. That was a shock. Bless you
busterrufus
18-07-16, 07:00
Got about one and half hours sleep. I understand that I need stop focusing on and feeding anxiety. That's what I want to do. I want to be calm. I have been doing breathing exercises. Keep getting sensations coming up from legs, uo into tummy, tinglng up into chest and top of shoulders. Sweating. Nausea rises with it and mouth waters. Gagging and heaving again, thought I,d done with that a few weeks ago.
I try to breathe. Don't want to focus on these feelings but they are so strong.
Do people mean I,m focusing on symptoms by talking about them. ?
I don't know how not to think of them when they are so strong
I,m sorry if I've not understood or something. I have tried telling sensations to "go away", ivv tried to accept they are anxiety,I,ve tried to relax, they won't go. This can't be right.
. When I had a panic attack years ago it was over and done with. I did still get tension and pans in spells, but not this bad, lingering and getting me again and agsn.
If you have had this and found a way to stop ease it, please please tell me.
I know people on here must be sick of me but I wouldn't be here if I was managing to do it by myself. Sorry for not being able to do it yet. I know several people have been trying to guide and help me and I,m very grateful. Ruth
P.s
I promise I,m not exaggerating or being soft. It's taken me years to get on the forum properly, I don't like asking for help and try to help myself first by finding out things myself.
MyNameIsTerry
18-07-16, 07:22
It's an ongoing process of doing it, Ruth. Acceptance may be something you learn to do cognitively but changing your subconscious though it is a longer job. The subconscious will continue to bombard the conscious mind with all these symptoms because it believes it is what should be done. We stop the reaction to symptoms and we show it they are not needed. But getting it to stop is a different thing and takes time for it to change the neural pathways in the brain. Once it does all that, the anxiety is no longer there.
When symptoms are 24/7, this is a hard slog of a task because we can't remain positive and not react all the time. Each time we don't do things the right way, the process is held up a little.
Also, this is fight or flight. It is meant to protect us and so it can much more quickly create a fear than we can undo one. This is because it is only meant to say "bears are bad" and that shouldn't need to change. Once it starts saying "knocks at the door are bad", "telephones ringing are bad" and the many triggers we end up creating ourselves, we have a lot more work to change it again. And this system is not meant to work on positive/neutral reactions, because seeing that bear should mean panic & running away or getting mad & fighting it off. Neither of those mean positive/neutral reactions and the area of the brain that looks for the feedback from the conscious mind in theis process only sees negative reactions. So, by starving it of reaction we tell it we don't care and so it starts to mothball the fear but because it can't actively see the reaction (when positive/neutral), it's not as direct. Also, negatives are stronger than positives/neutrals in this process so to change takes longer, rather frustratingly.
---------- Post added at 07:22 ---------- Previous post was at 07:18 ----------
Propranalol isn't an anti-panic attack, it reduces anxiety and has been proven to cure it, but it's not effective on everyone. Also, if you keep feeding the anxiety no med will work on you (I know this from experience). Meds are meant to help you control your thoughts, they make it easier, but if you keep feeding the anxiety your anxiety will just suppress the meds.
I don't believe the med propranalol has been proven to cure anxiety. It alleviates certain symptoms of it, and only some people even have those symptoms, but the cure comes from the person changing their thinking & reactions.
The same can be said for antidepressants, anti anxiolytics, anti convulsants, anti psychotics, etc.
They all work differently. Some calm the thought processes, some aim at physical symptoms, some trigger the GABA system, etc.
busterrufus
18-07-16, 07:44
Thank you terry. Yes knocks and telphones are big triggers for me.
What you are saying is that I have to not react negatively to anxiety? The reaction happens so quickly though, like with a knock its immediate. I,m not arguing against you or anything, it sounds right, just how do I get in there to try and stop a reaction. Or is trying to stop a reaction just a reaction in itself.?
When I went to a&e years ago with a panic attack they gave m propranalol. It stops palpitations, which is helpful because they can cause or be a symptom of anxiety / panc. It does little else for me but has worked for that symptom.
Shazamataz
18-07-16, 08:05
Hi Buster, sorry you are having such a hard time. I'm in the thick of it myself so I do understand.
You are not exaggerating as these feelings are incredibly strong and real. I have them myself fairly constantly and it is difficult not to focus on them.
I think the essence of what Terry is saying is to try not to react to them. In stead of saying/thinking "Oh this is so horrible!" give it a label like "I have that tingly feeling" but without emotion attached to it. Battling to ignore it doesn't work but changing the emotion/fear you attach to it does. Or I believe it does, but I'm not there yet!
Try nice things that may focus your mind away. Like I said the shower is the best thing for me. Maybe a bath or something funny on the tv? Every second of relief is worth the effort.
Hugs
busterrufus
18-07-16, 08:22
Hello shaz, sorry you are still unwell.
yes I find a bath or shower can relax me slightly for a short time.
I have to put tv on when I get up to try and use it as a distraction. It's drivel tho especially during the day, but that might just be me, I have it n anyway.
Thanks
Can you treat these symptoms as just boring and tedious? sort of like" oh, not again-what a bore" or "just do your worst-I'm not really bothered anymore".
I just tend to carry on as normal because I've had this for so long and I'm still here. I have had been hospitalised in the past on 2 occasions (NHS) with severe relentless agitation so I do speak from experience and am not just trying to placate you. I know what it's like but relief from all this comes from your reaction to your symptoms. It sound simple but actually doing it takes time, patience and belief
MyNameIsTerry
18-07-16, 08:46
It's like Shaz says, Ruth. It's a very hard process to get yourself to truly believe the symptoms are just unpleasant and that they can't harm and only scare you if you allow them to. You will always react, that can never be stopped but it's gradually reducing the intensity of that reaction through working on either challenging or accepting as opposed to panicking, pushing away or other negative fighting.
Essentially in CBT they teach us to look at how we feel and try to reframe it away from scary negatives. So, the "I feel like I'm going to die" or "this can't be anxiety, something bad is wrong with me" is changed to something more realistic. We do have control of this element, and through time it can change the process that is upstream of it - subconscious so it stops even bothering.
The acceptance methods work in a similar way but with the intention of saying "meh, it's just a system, big deal". And carrying on.
They can both work. It's often harder to see this with physical symptoms I find and easier to understand when you look at intrusive thoughts. With intrusive thoughts we can challenge them with evidence of why something may happen and why it may not and come up with a conclusion aimed at positive/neutral. With the accepting version we look towards removing our reaction so that we aim to have a very fleeting one without emotion, and certainly not negative ones.
I've been at it years and I'm still working on it. I've done it with intrusive thoughts and got past them (twice) and beat the compulsions but the physical symptoms from my GAD are still a big challenge along with the obsessions I have from my OCD.
You keep asking whether you are alone in how you feel and I've seen many people say exactly the same, and I've been one of them. People in the thick of it often think things can't be this bad so something else is wrong but that's not true. I was a jabbering wreck sitting on a settee all day waiting for each day to end panicking over eating, washing, brushing my teeth and unable to go out in to the back garden.
Now I can do all of that and much much more. I still have plenty to tackle but I'm not that same prisoner I was back then. But I found it's not quick at all. It's all trial and error, lots of blips and working through things until you find what works.
---------- Post added at 08:46 ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 ----------
yes I find a bath or shower can relax me slightly for a short time.
Those were triggers for me. For the first week, after the meds really hit me, I was struggling to wash in the sink as my anxiety would raise when I tried.
When I brushed my teeth I would have the inner dialogue 'now you can't breathe properly because your mouth isn't open and something is in the way'.
I would sit on the toilet for a no2 and as I pushed (sorry all) I would have the inner dialogue 'now you are tensing up, this must be more anxiety'.
When I ate I would have that same one as with brushing my teeth. However, how the sensations changed from eating made me anxious too. Being hungry made me anxious because it was different sensations. I eventually couldn't determine which was which and had to relearn what it meant to feel hungry. It took me about 3-4 weeks of starting intently at the TV power button whilst eating until I finally found that anxious problem decreased substantially. Even drinking water brought on the mouth closed one.
The simplest things became very hard.
I had many like that. It will be nothing new to pulisa, Shaz and everyone else reading this. We just have our variations. But you can see how it can get that bad.
Going for a walk meant changes in breathing and HR. I'm an asthma sufferer so breathing was a big focus for me, especially since I'd had an asthma attack when I first descended into my GAD. I got so bad after an exercise session (I used to use supplements, some stimulating, which led to a huge adrenaline rush due to a new strong supplement that was too much for me) that I started fearing taking any med or even a vitamin C tablet, and you can't get any safer than vitamin C. This got worse and I stopped taking my asthma meds and weeks later, I had a mild asthma attack. Add the panic on top of that and it wasn't pleasant. I sat with my parents and took my Reliever, which helped greatly. But then I had to spend weeks getting used to taking my Preventer again, which causes some tingling & jitteriness.
So, getting back out was hard because my chest was so tight from tension and then I had the changes in breathing & HR, not to mention seeing people which bothered me. My dad got me out walking the dog with him and after a month of that I started going on my own and then farther each time.
I got over the HR/breathing bit in the end. I did a Behavioural Experiment which my therapist told me to do. Sprinting and seeing how I felt. It helped with the fear, after a few goes. BUT I only really conquered this problem by running with my dog. I was talking him out at night and he gets excited. He looks at me as if to say 'can we run, please?'. So, we did. It wasn't great at first, even though I had done plenty of hard walking for years, but the more I did these little sprints with him, the more I got over the sensations. I started wanting to do it because he enjoyed it, and I love him dearly so want him to be happy.
I'm still working on my other problem with exercise - pain & aches. Even now these bother me. So, lifting weights and proper exercise is tough because the next day is when it hits and because my anxiety is worst the first half of the day, it can hit hard.
I was a mess. But I got a lot better and it wasn't due to meds the second time because the med has done more bad than good. The first time a different med really helped after a while.
If the propranolol helps, go for it. It's helping you cope, but long term getting beyond that is the key, but face that when the time comes.
I think the most I ever wrote about mine in one place was post #31 in this thread:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=169503&page=4
busterrufus
18-07-16, 12:36
I am sorry you have been ill shaz pulisa and terry, I think you have done brilliantly coping with anxiety.
I too was hospitalised with it 5 years ago, had therapies etc. It took me ages to function properly, obviously lost my job. I haven't coped as well as you have I,m sure. I,ve had lots of blips of course which lots of people have.
The changing symptoms a few months ago are what got to me.
I know I,ve really been struggling the past 4 or5 days and i would like to think that the topping up f adrenaline from that is what affected me so badly, because despite it being awful, it is not deadly.
I have to keep thinking that's the reason, I think I read somewhere about a top up effect.
I so far been unable to accept anxiety and let time pass with this episode. Going to have another think how best to do this.
I absolutely hate taking painkillers but I,m going to take some today to help with the leg pains, the muscles are twitching so much, it looks really unnatural.
When I have calmed a little more I will read your posts again like always do and try to make at least some of your advice work for me. Terry I will read your old post.
You are such good people to take the time and trouble to help me and others. Can't thank you enough. Please let me know if you have any other thoughts. Best wishes, ruth
Bearinmind
18-07-16, 15:46
I don't believe the med propranalol has been proven to cure anxiety. It alleviates certain symptoms of it, and only some people even have those symptoms, but the cure comes from the person changing their thinking & reactions.
The same can be said for antidepressants, anti anxiolytics, anti convulsants, anti psychotics, etc.
They all work differently. Some calm the thought processes, some aim at physical symptoms, some trigger the GABA system, etc. What I meant by it is that beta-blockers have been tested on clinical trials for anxiety and it has been shown to "cure" (anxiety levels dropped for most people on a long term basis). But your definition is correct, it's more to the point.
Anxiety meds don't bullet proof you against anxiety, much less cure anxiety on their own. They help you fight against it, but as any other mental disorder, you are the one to cure it, if you don't fight back the anxiety will just get a hold of you, even with meds.
================================================== ===============
Buster, have you tried Cognitive Behavior Therapy? I think you could've some improvement with it.
busterrufus
18-07-16, 18:12
Yes bearinmind, I tried cbt a few years ago. I didn't get on very well with it. Did better with mindfulness cbt in a group. I have books and cd,s to practice with. Been re- readng the books and trying to d a bit each day. One good thing about it is you can just do a few minutes at a time,if that's all you feel up to, or apply it when you're in the garden or out for a walk.
Thanks for the suggestion.
With mindfulness you have to take it in very short bursts. It's nigh on impossible when you are severely agitated. Only attempt it when your anxiety is at a tolerable level and this way you are likely to have more lessening of your physical and mental angst. It is torture to live like this-take it from people who know and who have been contributing to your thread.
busterrufus
18-07-16, 22:55
Yes pulisa, I find any therapy exercise like mindfulness or even progressive muscle relaxation impossible when I'm very agitated. I have been having the odd day when I can do a 1 minute meditation or a 3 minute breathing exercise. I have the kept the course booklet and cd,s so I can start from the beginning again when I feel I can manage it.
If anyone can,t get on a course but wants to try mindfulness the book by mark Williams and Danny penman s good"mindfulness, finding peace in a frantic world". It comes with a cd of guided meditation.
I wish I had never stopped regular practice. However there were one or two people in our group who found very little benefit from mindfulness, most people found it did help them.
MyNameIsTerry
19-07-16, 07:38
That's the book I've got, Ruth.
I found the same when I stopped, things slipped. It's a life skill and we need to keep it going. A few others on here have said the same about when they stopped.
Meditation is only one element though. I found that very very hard when agitated. I just kept trying daily for over a month until I started feeling a little different about it. The same with Calming Technique (breathing) and PMR, I just kept going.
If meditation isn't possible right now, can you try other elements like the Mindful eating or object handling? They don't need as much stillness and you actively try to think about those as opposed to let thoughts just be there.
My daughter is really struggling with the early stages of mindfulness and I would say that all her anxiety symptoms are sky high and any progress she has made has temporarily been replaced by all the old worries/issues.
I'm going to look beyond all the agitation and keep her going with her mindfulness practice (maybe just for a minute) without giving her reassurance when she asks. I think it is this lack of reassurance which is really carving her up and maybe you are finding this to, Ruth? I will not reassure my daughter because I want her to get more able to manage her anxiety and reassurance will just perpetuate the anxiety cycle.
busterrufus
19-07-16, 09:18
Pulisa, I should say that I was sent on mindfulness courses twice. The first time I did not get much benefit from it as I was very agitated a lot of the time. A few months later I was asked again and despite thinking it probably wouldn't work I went and it was so different. Well, same instructor same course but much more effective because of the timing, it was the right time for me when my agitation has lessened just enough for me to concentrate better. It must be very difficult to judge the timing of therapies.
busterrufus
19-07-16, 16:02
I been trying to fight bak against the anxiety I made myself go to supermarket. Could not bend legs proper ly they were stiff and painful, just shuffled. Snapped at husband I feel Made fool of myself I thought everyone was watching. I cried before I went out and when I got back but no relief sf just can,t relax. I got something important to do with granson and daudgher tomorrow. Scared I can't go and I will let them down. I will try pmr again. I slapped my legs to stop them hurting but itdint work I feel so sick. I know I need to relax so much I,m so agitated I cant keep my legs still
Yrs it's torture pulisa keep screaming into my pillow
Your adrenaline levels must be sky high, busterrufus? There's so much anger and frustration in your post. Is there any way you can just let the symptoms do their worst and think "to hell with this...I'm going out tomorrow and what will be will be...."
This is what you are aiming for ultimately but there is a lot of groundwork to put in before you can accept these thoughts.
busterrufus
19-07-16, 18:58
Can't exercise proerly to get adrenaline down n. Tried quick relaxation but only minute or two,couldn't concentrate. I don't know what I am doing that keeps adrenaline high can it be this high so long if I,m trying?
What sort of ground work pulisa more exercise and relaxation? Yrs that's what I aim for it not to worry me to say to hell with this and really not be so scared.
The groundwork involves learning to de-sensitise yourself and to treat your symptoms with apathy as opposed to adrenaline. Personally I don't think exercise comes into it-it's mind "exercises" re modifying your response to triggers ie physical symptoms.
I haven't had any special therapy-I just don't want to be dominated by symptoms which are a result of anxiety, nothing else. I have a daughter to care for who is also dealing with this so I need to be able to function
busterrufus
19-07-16, 21:04
Its good that your daughter has you to advise and support her. Best wishes, I hope she recovers quickly.
Thank you. She has other complex issues to contend with but managing her anxiety is something both she and I are determined to do by whatever means we can and that includes considering all options-our own stuff and the ACT-apart from meds due to medical issues. To be honest the meds she was able to take did nothing at all and caused even more agitation so they are not an option.
busterrufus
20-07-16, 23:32
I managed to go with my daughter and grandson to visit his new nursery. She wanted my opinion as I was a nursery nurse until I had to retire. I had a similar reaction as last week.... Coped better than I thought, felt I,d achieved something by being of use and felt very tired . A couple of hours later the good feeling went, burning pains in legs and agitation came back.
Does anyone know if this is something I will have to keep going through and how long before I can expect it to ease a bit?
I,m not expressing myself well. I know each person is different but could it be days , weeks o r months?
If you've had similar?
MyNameIsTerry
21-07-16, 05:30
Well done, Ruth!
My mum was a nursery nurse many years ago (she's mid seventies now). She said they used to be trained with the nurses at the nursing colleges which I assume you had too. Aside from being an experienced parent yourself, you would have a ton of experience to help your daughter check the place out.
Feeling useful can be important. Self esteem, self confidence, self worth, etc all take such a battering from mental health conditions. I think we feel a sense of reward from being helpful and that brings on the little boost of Dopamine and we feel stronger for a short time. Low mood and depression can so often come out of feeling worthless in the world.
You are likely to get a million & one answers to how long things take and in reality, the one answer that matters is how you will progress. I know it's hard and we all want some reassurance earlier on because it is so scary but as long as you are seeing changes, you are on the right track. They dips, we have to accept until we start really moving forward.
So, try not to berate yourself that you are feeling this again despite how you coped. I know we all do, but if you can work on preventing that pattern too, it can help.
busterrufus
21-07-16, 12:34
Thanks. I,m posting here to get the questions I have out of my head temporarily to try and stop them spiralling around there. It feels pointless talking to people who haven't suffered with similar, they just can't understand. Just tried differential relaxation exercise again. I used to do it so well. I feel worse, pain, rushes, mini heat flashes, feeling sick. Every few mins for about half an hour. Feel so ill since the better feeling yesterday, is it worse or does it just feel worse because I had a brief respite. If its adrenaline I need to get rid of some. Could it be adrenaline making me heave?
Feel like I,n being poisoned
Have a look at Cognitive Defusion techniques on the internet, Ruth. As Terry says, it's important to try and break these patterns of behaviour little by little.
My daughter is having ACT therapy-she has a severe anxiety disorder/OCD and is on the autistic spectrum. ACT can be of more help when CBT has proved ineffective and the cognitive defusion techniques are aimed towards breaking/reassessing recurrent patterns of rumination.
busterrufus
21-07-16, 20:43
Thanks terry, it's a bloomin fantastic nursery too. He,s a lucky lad! I think I was buoyed up by that also initially.
Pulisa, I had not heard of cognitive defusion or ACT, but having now looked them up on the Internet I realise that support workers in the past have discussed some of the principles of these without mentioning the actual names of the therapies. I,m going to have another look tomorrow hopefully, when I may feel a bit more with it.
I had wondered why some people on the forum advise acceptance of symptoms and others advocate challenging them. I thought one way must be right and one wrong, but I see its more a case of use what works for the individual.
It does look like ACT might be more suitable for me than cbt was. I,ve looked on local websites but can,t see the therapy offered locally so I,ll try and print myself some info from elsewhere.
I hope AcT works well for your daughter. Thanks very much. Best wishes, ruth
I just thought ACT might be more appropriate given your situation and particularly because CBT hasn't been of much help in the past. I appreciate that there is a lot of info online which is very difficult to absorb let alone read when agitation is high. It looks complicated when written by the professionals but broken down into layman's language it makes more sense and is more manageable..
Would it be worth enquiring locally as to whether ACT is offered? You never know..it is a therapy which is more widely available now
MyNameIsTerry
22-07-16, 06:42
Russ Harris gets very good reviews for his ACT books so they might be worth a look?
I've not tried ACT but I think pulisa is right, you have to find what works and ACT is really a newer generation of CBT anyway. CBT is something you can do in many ways in isolation or combination with other strategies but it does mean challenging thoughts and working on them rather than accepting them however there is an element of acceptance in CBT for it to work too.
ACT is closer to Mindfulness so if you have had success with that, trying ACT seems like a no-brainer.
Exercises like Cognitive Defusion can be seen elsewhere. I know seen something similar used in hypnotherapy in the past and it's probably a matter of overlaps as things move on or things blended out of other therapies.
I don't know much about ACT but I do like the look of it. This technique seems to be an ideal one to blend with Mindfulness and the way it has been described as being on the backend of mindful awareness of thoughts (noticing, observing but not interacting) is like a step on from it in that respect. I expect you will pick that up because you have a foundation in it.
It makes sense to try this.
I do like how ACT has Mindfulness blended into it. Something I really like the look of is how it examines your values and looks towards building on them. I know I fight with myself over who I should be and I know this is negative but I'm unhappy in where I am.
My daughter fights with herself over who she "should" be too, Terry. It makes her truly miserable. I do hope that maybe ACT might be of interest and help to you too, Terry? I'm also going to try to take on board as much of it as I can-I'm just so thankful that there is finally some psychological support for my daughter (and me as a knock-on effect)
busterrufus
22-07-16, 18:24
Not had time to relpty. Legs are burning and twitching, fingers are tingling now but it doesn't just last a few mins like pa. Feel so sick. I,m scared I got deadly illness or I wouldn't have this every day
Looked at symptoms page again, burning calf muscles not there
Why wouldn't you have these symptoms everyday with anxiety? What deadly disease do you think you have? If you think you have a deadly disease why haven't you been to see your GP for blood tests/investigations?
---------- Post added at 19:45 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------
Do you think you would believe your GP if he said that these were anxiety symptoms? I know when panic takes a grip how hard it is to be rational.
busterrufus
22-07-16, 19:51
Oh pulisa i,m in a state again. I been gp and had blood tests nothing showed.
I can't find these on the list of symptoms except feeling sick.
Ruth, I have had all your burning/pins and needles symptoms in my feet
and legs. I even had a day of tests at the Atkinson Morley Neurological Hospital in South London..including a horrible lumbar puncture
You know what I'm going to say, don't you....
Nothing Abnormal Detected
The mind can produce and sustain horrible symptoms
busterrufus
22-07-16, 20:50
I didn't think anyone had these symptoms. They are sustained as you say. Its so hard to take in that it could all be anxiety. Thank you for replying pulisa.
That's OK. I hate talking about my symptoms but wanted to let you know that I've also been "there" with the neurological symptoms. They were at their worst when I watched my Father die in hospital-I was horrified that these symptoms could still continue whilst I was losing my beloved dad but they did ..and for long afterwards when I was very preoccupied by other matters. I wanted you to know that this is how my anxiety manifested itself on this occasion
busterrufus
22-07-16, 21:51
Pulisa thank you for sharing that. I hope I,ve not upset you in any way, you have been so kind and helpful to me. I,m sorry you had such a horrible time. Even though I,ve had anxiety for years and had some scary symptoms before, these are the worst. Every day is a battle to accept and try to pay as little notice of them as possible, like you have said previously.
Yes, I agree. There seems to be no symptom that truly cannot be listed under anxiety.
Of course when we are in the midst of panic, any sense goes out the window and our health anxiety escalates. But it is NEVER what we feared and ALWAYS anxiety
busterrufus
23-07-16, 05:10
Its not just during a panic attack though.
MyNameIsTerry
23-07-16, 07:08
My daughter fights with herself over who she "should" be too, Terry. It makes her truly miserable. I do hope that maybe ACT might be of interest and help to you too, Terry? I'm also going to try to take on board as much of it as I can-I'm just so thankful that there is finally some psychological support for my daughter (and me as a knock-on effect)
Thanks, I'm going to have a look at it.
I've seen that Russ guys The Happiness Trap book around so may have a look at that.
Yes, it's good to hear she is getting some help and that you are finding it beneficial to her. Maybe it's a better fit for what she has to deal with since there is only so much she can do with the ASD in the way?
---------- Post added at 07:08 ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 ----------
Not had time to relpty. Legs are burning and twitching, fingers are tingling now but it doesn't just last a few mins like pa. Feel so sick. I,m scared I got deadly illness or I wouldn't have this every day
Looked at symptoms page again, burning calf muscles not there
Twitching and tingling fit under Paraesthesia. They are well known in these disorders and there are many threads on this website from others who've had them.
Can you apply anything to your legs to cool them down a bit? Maybe like a cold compress or some soothing ointment/gels of some kind?
busterrufus
23-07-16, 07:39
I put ice packs on them sometimes.
I was doing well yesterday, from 8 am to 2 pm was thinking positive, trying to keep myself distracted. Then my legs got worse and I kept feeling sick and feelings of doom with it.
I went on an anxiety website and accidently found this could be something v serious, I was honestly looking at it for anxiety symptoms. Since then as bad as ever. Hardly slept.
No control over myself. What would anxiety explain?
Keep stopping typing because mini rush- type things I think, as well. That's what it feels like anyway.
Its not just during a panic attack though.
No, mine were all day, every day. My symptoms didn't "wax and wane"-they were constant. It was an anxiety state.
---------- Post added at 08:30 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------
You are monitoring yourself far too much so you are going to clock every single nuance of your symptoms. It's getting yourself out of this "vigilance" which is hard but it's something you have to do and googling symptoms is absolute manna from heaven for HA
busterrufus
23-07-16, 08:48
Thanks pulisa. Yes, like that, constant. It's such a relief when it feels just a bit better for a while. I,m longing for the next time.
This constant vigilance because of fear cycle. This could be topping up my adrenaline and making it spill over, so more severe symptoms, more frequent mini rushes with feelings of doom too. I,m trying to rationalise it.
Don't want to google anxiety state, I thought that was a short period of anxiety but I probably wrong. Can,t really remember.
It's nothing sinister-just constant anxiety because the mind is fixated on the symptoms and won't be "budged" one inch.
You have to try to budge it inch by little inch if you can...
busterrufus
23-07-16, 09:31
The feelings sweep over ne sometimes every few minutes I feel like I'm gointo n have a seizure
And I think for me the breakthrough came when I just didn't care anymore about these symptoms. They were there and I didn't try to block them because that never works-just causes more adrenaline-I just couldn't care less about them. They bored me.
It's finding something else to focus on away from the HA and physical symptoms. Away from the internet and its temptations re Googling symptoms. Away from anxiety and how it can take over etc etc.
I know it's easier said than done but there is more to life than anxiety and you deserve a respite from all this.
busterrufus
23-07-16, 09:32
I take propranalol sholdntbe having thisn
The feelings sweep over ne sometimes every few minutes I feel like I'm gointo n have a seizure
But you won't. I'm probably not able to help you much at this point because the "yes but" element is too strong but I just wanted to give you my experience of all this. I know it takes a huge leap of trust from you to believe me and to believe that your symptoms are harmless
Hi hun
I have been following your thread and have been delighted to see all the positive things you have done and posted about.
As Pulisa says this is a huge leap of faith but speaking from experience on this site kicking the "yes but" element is key.
Anything you can do to stop being hyper aware of how you are feeling, both physically and mentally would be a huge help.
Constant anxiety means constant Adrenalin in your system, this does cause physical symptoms, which fuels the anxiety and so on and so forth.
Try and see if you and hubby can come up with something, anything, to distract you and help break this cycle.
Elen
busterrufus
23-07-16, 20:46
Pulisa thanks for your replies. As if I wasn't worried enough, my Fingers and toes have been tingling for the past 2 days, don't know if its all connected.
I,ve been reading your replies over again. It is mind boggling that these things can be caused by anxiety, but it must be possible because you have experienced some of them, and maybe more that you didn't mention.
Your symptoms didn't wax and wane, so am I right that nothing improved them until they bored you?
I have been in such a bad state today, but I,m thinking about how much you encourage me. I know I,m not able to ignore or feel bored by these horrible symptoms yet, but I,m going to try as hard as I can to lessen my anxiety by pmr and some mindfullness practice and distraction to start with. If I can just ease it a little I know it will spur me on, just not to be constantly completely ruled by it. I know even that will be hard because the anxiety is sky high. I am exhausted, going to try and have just a bit to eat, some chamomile tea, a painkiller and hopefully some sleep. Thank you so much. Ruth
Thanks for your reply Ellen. I don't feel that I have been doing well , but its good to know you think I have made some sort of progress.
There is a lot I haven't said about my own anxiety symptoms, Ruth, but I don't believe it helps anyone to compare/contrast symptoms let alone refer to long lists of anxiety symptoms.
You don't need to thank me. If I can at least sow the seeds of some thoughts which may be helpful somewhere along the line towards successfully managing your anxiety then that'll be fine with me..
With your skills as a former nursery nurse your grandson is one lucky boy! Could being with him help you a bit?
busterrufus
24-07-16, 06:53
Been awake again since 3 am with aches, pains and tingling . This feeling I get like a rush of something from my legs to chest kept happening. Followed by nausea and heaving. I know I,m very anxious but does anyone know if that's an adrenaline symptom? It's impossible for me to ignore it and relax.
It's still happening
Now I so agitated I can't keep still on bed. Have tomove about. Can't tolerate cat coming tosee me. Ineed to get Rid of it and relax in so exhausted. Can it get worse before getting better or just getting worse? Horrible horrible feeling of doom, like there is something terribly wrong . So difficult to face day like this again
Went to bed determined to start beating it by relaxing and its ignoring it, but it feels too strong.
Honestly feel like imgoig to have a seizure. No one here on own
Adrenaline is coursing through you, Ruth. You are highly anxious but nothing bad is going to happen to you. Reassurance won't help you to deal with this.
busterrufus
25-07-16, 07:35
I know. I just want all the pains and nausea and fear to go.
Does anyone know if anxiety can actually get worse before it gets better?
I understand panic attacks, it's the constant symptoms I find worst to deal with. I thought the body naturally brought adrenaline levels down. I don't understand why the symptoms are so sustained
MyNameIsTerry
25-07-16, 08:16
Your body will metabolise excess adrenaline but the problem with constant anxiety is that you are also pumping more adrenaline into your blood too.
Panic attacks rise to a very dramatic level in terms of adrenaline and then it recedes. However, there is still too much in the body for some time afterwards and this means allowing your body to metabolise it. This is often why people post panic attack end up agitated for hours afterwards.
I've never really had panic attacks, more anxiety attacks. My adrenaline levels were up constantly for many hours each day until I reached a better point. It was very hard everyday.
I guess it will always get worse before it gets better in some ways since we have to confront so many triggers to get beyond them. This doesn't mean it gets worse in terms of severity but more than we are more exposed than we were when we were avoiding more.
I don't think I've ever had a classic panic attack -just sustained and relentless agitation. I think I could deal with panic attacks but managing the sustained agitation is more challenging and certainly more exhausting because there is no respite.
busterrufus
25-07-16, 08:31
Thank you both. Does this mean your other symptoms were sustained, or just your agitation?
My fingers have started tingling too now over the past few days so iim worried about getting worse instead of better.
For me it's the whole package-symptoms plus agitation every waking moment
MyNameIsTerry
25-07-16, 08:54
I don't think I've ever had a classic panic attack -just sustained and relentless agitation. I think I could deal with panic attacks but managing the sustained agitation is more challenging and certainly more exhausting because there is no respite.
Yes, I've often thought this myself. There have been many days where I've just said to myself 'for gods sake, just advance into a panic attack so it goes down'...but it never does. It's like being on the cusp all the time.
I think we all have our Achilles heal with symptoms though and so being on the other side we may disagree.
I've often seen people on the DP/DR board saying that's the worst side effect. But it's relative, isn't it? Try all day every day agitation for months on end. Then to some it will be panic attacks.
It's like with intrusive thoughts were anxiety looks for the weak spot to torment us with. I think it does the same job with symptoms.
---------- Post added at 08:54 ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 ----------
Thank you both. Does this mean your other symptoms were sustained, or just your agitation?
My fingers have started tingling too now over the past few days so iim worried about getting worse instead of better.
Any symptom for me.
The muscular tension and struggling to breathe. The agitation. The aches & pains.
I did find agitation one of the worst though.
Agitation is the worst symptom for me too and I've done the gamut of physical symptoms which you can put up with.
busterrufus
25-07-16, 09:22
I,m terrified of the physical symptoms. Can't read or watch tv. Struggling to do short muscle relaxation exercises.
MyNameIsTerry
25-07-16, 09:35
That's exactly how I was. Any movement meant feeling something physical and it was hard going to push through that stage. It will come though.
Physical symptoms have always been the worst for me.
I,m terrified of the physical symptoms. Can't read or watch tv. Struggling to do short muscle relaxation exercises.
You're stuck like this because of being terrified. Trying to do relaxation exercises when you're highly agitated is never going to be easy. My advice would be to throw caution to the wind and go out-preferably with someone-even if it's just to go round the block. You must feel like a caged lion in the house all day
busterrufus
25-07-16, 22:37
Thank you, I do indeed feel like a caged lion.
I went for a slow 15 min walk with my husband.
Afterwards did a quick relaxation exercise.
A few minutes later I felt my anxiety rise a lot, with usual symptoms. I don't know why that happened. I,m going to keep trying, picking my moments when I feel most able.
Terry, sorry I don't know how to quote from your post- you had raised adrenaline for long periods every day, which is what I probably have. I don't know how our bodies cope without exploding or something. . You and pulisa are evidence that it can be tamed.
---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 19:02 ----------
I,m in bed trying to relax. My legs and feet feel like they are on fire. I,ve felt more positive for the last 4 hours. I would have thought that symptoms might have calmed down a little. Will there be a delay?
I read one member post that after her anxiety stopped it took a week for her physical symptoms to go. Does that sound usual?
Easily, you have had Adrenalin going through your system, this can take a while to work its way out.
Honestly hun the answer is to stop double guessing yourself and accept it for what it is and believe that it will pass and get better.
busterrufus
26-07-16, 02:32
2.30 a.m. I don't think there's any chance of sleep. I,m sure no one feels like this. It can't be adrenaline causing this, how can it last most of the day and night? Until the past 10 days or so I usually felt better in the evenings. Whatever it is must be getting worse.
Shazamataz
26-07-16, 06:06
Buster, it can go on non-stop, I've been there before and it really is awful.
I can't remember are you on any medication? I recently started venlafaxine and it's helped a lot already. I'm now just getting the jitters in the evenings instead of 24/7.
busterrufus
26-07-16, 08:20
Been on fluoxetine 5 years shsz.
I feel so afraid of all these symptoms
Shazamataz
26-07-16, 08:23
Been on fluoxetine 5 years shsz.
I feel so afraid of all these symptoms
Oh Buster, I'm sorry it's so hard for you. I'd say you need to go back to the doctor to look at reviewing meds.
I know it's torture but you must do something.
xo
Maybe it's time for a medication review? Getting past the "yes buts" is impossible if you still believe that you are physically unwell. The fluoxetine at its present dose is not helping you manage your anxiety and you are just going round in circles with your ruminating.
Would you consider getting another opinion on your meds?
busterrufus
26-07-16, 08:29
Had them reviewed 1 month ago. She won,t give me any more valium. I can,t seem to relax my muscles, especially in legs.
It's not about the valium, more a change from fluoxetine. I think you need a more specialised opinion because you are really struggling with this and can't rise above your symptoms
MyNameIsTerry
26-07-16, 09:00
What dose are you on? Maybe you need an increase?
Sometimes meds poop out too and a switch is needed.
busterrufus
26-07-16, 13:33
Thanks all,
my husband got me an appointment this morning. I saw a new Dr. He said he could increase my fluoxetine, or change to another ad, or give me something that would help with the pain- gab somethingorother or amitryptiline( I think). I said pain relief ones then he said to try increasing fluoxetine instead then go back after a month to see if there was any improvement. I was disappointed really , thought I might get some quick pain relief. Hope the increase works.
He said its quite common with low mood and anxiety, the pain. He also said opiate based painkillers won't work for it.
Can't believe I,ve not heard of anyone with similar before, except just recently on the forum.
Sorry terry, forgot to say I was on 20 mg, now going up to 40mg. Also take 20mg propranalol twice a day.
Gabapentin and amitriptyline are used at low doses as painkillers but they are more for nerve(neuro) related pain. As the GP thinks that your physical symptoms are anxiety related he's right to tell you that traditional painkillers won't help.
MyNameIsTerry
27-07-16, 07:39
That's a good call from your GP. Regardless of pain, your reaction to it is anxiety based so helping with the anxiety works on two fronts.
It will take another month for the Fluoxetine to stabilise, it's very long half life causes a much longer period to reach steady-state compared to other SSRI's, but the increases in Serotonin will be kicking in much sooner than this.
I think trying an increase is better than switching. Switching should be if the med isn't working (once all doses are exploited, or a good number of them) or you can't tolerate it. Switching brings a greater chance of side effects.
---------- Post added at 07:39 ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 ----------
Can't believe I,ve not heard of anyone with similar before, except just recently on the forum.
This one has popped up today:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=186809
Hello, I thought I would make a quick post. I'm really freaking out tonight. Admittedly for the past 3 days or so my anxiety has been sky high.
Ive been sitting here tonight watching TV, and all of a sudden I got burning sensations in both of my feet. That went away, and moved onto my finger tips and my hands and now we're back to both. Im really really anxious and scared about it because it's annoying and painful.
Can this be anxiety? Any replies are appreciated!
---------- Post added at 00:52 ---------- Previous post was at 00:38 ----------
Now it's starting on my arms and legs :( I just want to sleep and not worry :(
busterrufus
27-07-16, 14:42
I felt quite a bit better yesterday and first thing this morning. After about 10 am I felt the burning pains coming on again. Then more symptoms, tension ,agitation nausea sweating etc. All still with me.
I thought maybe I'd started getting better, but its just as bad.
These horribkle pains and surges thro my body. Lying on bed. Heaving. Husband looking after grandson downstairs, I don't want to frighten the child
I can't really work out which comes first tension aniety or pain.
---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 13:33 ----------
Feels like panic attacks every few mins for last hour. Is that usual for anyone?
Would it help to spend a short amount of time with your grandson? Rather than ruminating on your anxiety symptoms? You won't be frightening him because you CAN rise above the harmless feelings
busterrufus
27-07-16, 19:24
Hello pulisa, I went down and spent some time with him.
I feel so grumpy because of the sensations and worry. I don't want him to see. I just really feel s o worried because I still got the pains. The symptoms seem so extreme and persistent.
Your worry will keep the symptoms going though. Well done for interacting with your grandson-far easier to sit upstairs and compare symptoms online/focus on your pain
busterrufus
27-07-16, 19:42
I do get upset because I can't act normally with him.
Every day is groundhog day.
Every night I go to bed thinking, it will be better tomorrow, it won,t feel so bad, it won't be so painful and scary, I,ll be able to do something and enjoy it. It's just not happened for months.
It's all so physical.
But in fact it's all down to how you actually perceive your physical symptoms so it's a mental health issue.
Once you can begin to accept this concept you will start your recovery but fearing your symptoms will just keep you in that vicious cycle of yes buts and what ifs
busterrufus
27-07-16, 20:45
So no matter how much I try and relax or distract myself it won't make any difference if I still fear my symptoms?
Absolutely because you can't relax or distract yourself if you still feel fear. Fear will override all your best efforts to relax
---------- Post added at 20:58 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ----------
That little voice telling you to be afraid of what you are feeling is the one you have to subdue gradually. Acknowledge it but try not to give it importance
busterrufus
27-07-16, 21:08
Right. The fear is the main thing, i have to concentrate on subduing that. I,ll think about the other strategies when I,ve made a good start on that. thank you.
Don't force yourself to subdue fear as that will just keep adrenaline flowing. Try to pay less attention to the symptoms-don't immediately fixate on them as soon as you wake up for example. You'll notice them but just let them happen, don't think "oh no not again-what IS this? It just can't be all in my mind, must be something really awful" etc etc
This won't come naturally as your mind has become conditioned to the fight/flight response for many months now. Don't get frustrated..be kind to yourself and let yourself make a start on your recovery? I really hope you can allow yourself to give this a try.
busterrufus
27-07-16, 21:25
That is almost exactly what I think to myself when I wake!
Yes I see I am conditioned, like one of Pavlov,s dogs.
I will try this. Thank you
I felt like you do but didn't want to continue like this as there is more to life than being dominated by HA.
It's not easy but you can do it and look forward to a far better quality of life.
busterrufus
27-07-16, 21:39
I hope so. I will try it. Thank you pulisa.
busterrufus
28-07-16, 08:43
Are there particular symptoms that seem to go first or do they all start to go at the same time?I
It feels like constant panicking attacks. I don't know how bodies put up with this. Could be conditioning??? Frustrating start, I,ll keep trying to let it go.
I don't think you should be concerned about which symptom goes first. It's more a question of not focussing on your symptoms as a whole so that your anxiety lessens gradually. There's no set pattern re symptoms but it's always your reaction to them which will reflect their impact on you.
If you continually monitor yourself you will be very aware of every single twinge. There are no "rules" as to which symptom goes first-it's a gradual process of allowing yourself to stop thinking about and fearing every single one of them.
busterrufus
28-07-16, 09:18
Its so hard. The thoughts seem to come automatically in response to me feeling the symptoms . Its so quick. There doesn't seem to be any thinking time in between. I,m not trying to be negative, just trying to think of best way to make it work.
I keep thinking what the relief feels like when I get a short break of an hour two from the symptoms.
Right here goes
I have a physical condition that involves me having chronic pain in my feet, hands, knees and hips which to date scary drugs are doing little to touch.
Sometimes it grumbles along and at other times the pain is acute but it is always there.
The pain also appears randomly and acutely in all my other joints, so back, elbows, neck shoulders etc.
If I sit here and wonder how my hands or feet are feeling guess what - they are really sore.
If however I put on my big girl pants and get on with all that I have to do the pain just grumbles along. If I find myself really involved in a project the pain is forgotten for a short time.
This is my advice, keep yourself as active, mentally and physically as possible. Force yourself to get involved in things that distract your mind.
busterrufus
28-07-16, 10:06
I,m so sorry you have such chronic pain elen. I know how difficult constant pain is to cope with, I hope you get some relief.
I wrote quite a long reply to your post but managed to lose it.
I do appreciate any advice I can get, even if its about things I,m already trying. I obviously don't expect everyone who posts to have read every other post on this thread.
busterrufus
29-07-16, 20:54
Oh my, I felt quite a bit better yesterday afternoon and evening. Went to bed so optimistic, thoght I,d be able to go out today. Woke up this morning and its all returned, plus I have burning pain in lower back and groin, I get this sometimes and it makes me tense up even more.I just can't relax the painful muscles. I keep sweating and getting those little rushes a nd doom feelings again. I know people here must be so fed up with hearing this. The day has just been so long I need to vent and ask if anyone got any tips. Yesterday I tried and seemed to do quite well, today nothing seems to work despite doing the same things. Evetry time I feel a sympto I am saying " i,m bored,so you might as well go" in my head. Like pulisa suggested. Its not working today and i,m probably being too impatient. Will my fear keep returning like this even if i have a good day? I can,t understand why i can have hours or half days being ok,(feels so wonderful) then wham! Feels like worse than ever.
Ps are these mini mini respites normal does anyone know?
---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:12 ----------
Please help if you can . Why does it feel like I,m being poisoned?
Because you think you are being poisoned.
Have you had a look at the success story section on NMP? It might just help to read about how people have managed to make some progress rather than focussing on symptoms?
busterrufus
29-07-16, 21:08
Pulisa I have all these symptoms which make me feel like I,m being bpoisoned. Yes I have looked at success forum.
I feel so ill every day. It's been so long.
I'm sorry that I haven't been able to help you see beyond your symptoms and I do hope that things improve for you very soon
busterrufus
29-07-16, 21:23
You,ve helped me so much. I,m just not quite there. I feel its in reach now. I saw beyond my symptoms yesterday. I just would like to know if I'll keep having setbacks
. It's hard to have a few hours respite then go straight back again the next day. I'm fretting about it because my daughter is expecting her 2nd baby in 5weeks and wants me at the birth.
MyNameIsTerry
30-07-16, 06:01
If however I put on my big girl pants
That made me think of this...
https://custardkasper.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/mrs-brown-boys-article-jpg_093607.jpg
...:D
I wouldn't mess with Agnes Brown!
busterrufus
30-07-16, 09:34
Ha ha. I see she gets her undies from m&s like me!
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