Mirtazapine and mental blocks

[LittleMissAlone]

I've been on Mirtazapine 15mg for almost 6 months. Since being on it I've developed a lot of mental blocks and it's only now I'm slowly able to overcome them, though not without great effort. Things I had no problems with at all, such as walking not even a mile away from my flat or car I've found virtually impossible as I'm plagued by nausea, yes that despite Mirtazapine supposedly being antiemetic, etc. I'll still get exercise, but it will almost always be within a short distance. I'm thinking of tapering them off in the next month, see if that helps.

Has anybody else experienced blocks (almost phobias) since being on this drug? Thank you in advance.

[LittleMissAlone]

I've been persuaded to keep at them, not taper off. It makes sense if I'm reaching the point that I'm noticing improvements. My contention is that I really don't know if I'd have been so incapable of doing very easy things if I hadn't been put on it.

[Shazamataz]

Do you think it's made things worse? If so, maybe a review of meds with the doctor? The Mirt certainly didn't get me to recovery, unfortunately. Thing is, you're still only on a really low dose which is more sedating and may be more incapacitating than a higher dose?

Was hoping your absence meant you were doing great :(

[LittleMissAlone]

Oh hi Sharon, good to hear from you.

I've been having sneaky peaks at my nmp friends, but yes I am on the mend. As well as being on the mirt a few months I'm having to make healthier food choices (no bad thing), and I'm also trying to make headway with a so called love situation, about which triggered this illness. Basically I'm trying to take back control, but work in progress.

As for the dosage, I went back to the doctors early ish June with that summer onset SAD, I told him then about these awful mental blocks. He suggested upping the dosage by half a tablet a night, but for the second time of trying that I had to stop after 2-3 weeks because my poor stomach couldn't tolerate it.

It's interesting what you say about sedating, that's another reason for considering maybe withdrawing as I do have moments of tiredness, despite not doing a whole lot (still not working, though I'm looking into reception work at a place at the end of my road), and sleeping well.

But with everything we have to weigh it up. I've not had the weightgain, if anything the opposite because I'm having to be more careful. But we ladies don't like putting it on, do we?

I hope you're well, Sharon. Joy came over again last week, bringing beautiful flowers, so thoughtful. She's still very well, but owes it all, for now, on mirt 30mg and venlafaxine, I think 150mg (I hope she won't mind my saying that).

Take care.

[pulisa]

It's very hard to know what to do for the best re meds. I know for me all the meds under the sun wouldn't help and I have to take the psychological route. I've given a variety of meds a good go over the past 20 years or so though. For people helped by meds all well and good but I think the jury's out on long term usage.

I'm glad I took the decision to come off meds as I saw no benefit so what was the point? It's very different if you see a notable improvement though. Maybe when things are more settled in your personal life you will be able to make a decision re the mirt? You are obviously making progress but this is probably because you are psychologically stronger.

[LittleMissAlone]

Hi Pulisa

Yes, it's all about coping strategies, and just accepting this is the way you are. I was extremely reluctant to go on the meds back in October, had a terrible time on sertraline, started on mirt just before Christmas, came off in New Year, and then finally went back on them again from mid February onwards.

Pulisa, you strike me as being a very sound and knowledgable lady, offering thoughtful and insightful advice to us poor souls flailing about with this awful condition. I don't intend to be on meds forever, and I'm glad I'm on the lowest therapeutic dose.

I always think of my friend currently on tablets and with a family history of depression, she says without drugs her brother wouldn't be with us. So they definitely can't be dismissed.

Hoping things good with you too.

[pulisa]

No they certainly have their place. I'm just one of you though and have certainly experienced anxiety to the point of NHS hospitalisation in terms of physical symptoms making me unable to function.

I'm currently emerging from about a year of constant agitation so I feel a lot clearer and stronger about things in my life myself. Don't know how long it will last but I intend to make the most of it! Could be the fact that I am finally having some psychological help with my daughter.

Life circumstances can make a difference and sometimes make no difference at all. I think being on the lowest therapeutic dose is a good option as you continue to progress well. You should give yourself some credit for what you have achieved x

[LittleMissAlone]

Oh bless you, thanks so much, means a lot.

You mentioned this psychological help, being psychologically stronger earlier. What you mean by it?

[pulisa]

I just meant that I have a bit of a "just get on with it" mindset and don't analyse symptoms too much. Personally I don't think it's helpful to link symptoms to physical conditions such as CFS for example. I just know the basics and don't immerse myself in too much psychological debate/theories.

My daughter has been having weekly ACT therapy since May and it's been reassuring to know that the psychologist fully backs up the way I have been trying to support my daughter-having the extra confidence in my abilities as a carer has helped me feel better as a whole and having backup in her care is something I've not previously had.

So for me improved life circumstances have helped and I hope this soon becomes the case with you, LMA. Having the support and friendship of Joy will also be very beneficial-especially in "real life". People can really drag you down if they are negative and only want to use you for what you can give them. Joy sounds a lovely lady and I'm pleased that she has moved on from NMP and made such encouraging progress-meds have certainly helped her get this far.

[Shazamataz]

Oh hi Sharon, good to hear from you.

I've been having sneaky peaks at my nmp friends, but yes I am on the mend. As well as being on the mirt a few months I'm having to make healthier food choices (no bad thing), and I'm also trying to make headway with a so called love situation, about which triggered this illness. Basically I'm trying to take back control, but work in progress.

As for the dosage, I went back to the doctors early ish June with that summer onset SAD, I told him then about these awful mental blocks. He suggested upping the dosage by half a tablet a night, but for the second time of trying that I had to stop after 2-3 weeks because my poor stomach couldn't tolerate it.

It's interesting what you say about sedating, that's another reason for considering maybe withdrawing as I do have moments of tiredness, despite not doing a whole lot (still not working, though I'm looking into reception work at a place at the end of my road), and sleeping well.

But with everything we have to weigh it up. I've not had the weightgain, if anything the opposite because I'm having to be more careful. But we ladies don't like putting it on, do we?

I hope you're well, Sharon. Joy came over again last week, bringing beautiful flowers, so thoughtful. She's still very well, but owes it all, for now, on mirt 30mg and venlafaxine, I think 150mg (I hope she won't mind my saying that).

Take care.

I'm glad you're in touch with Joy, she really seemed lovely and great to know she is doing so well on the med combination I am on.

I'm still very up and down, not as bad as before but still struggling to be honest. I guess I've ended up with my life becoming very small in the past months and I have a lot of spare time on my hands but little motivation/energy to do much of anything. Constantly very fatigued as well.

We've had our first real wintery blast these past few days (it's been a mild winter) and had snow and now freezing temperatures (-3 when I got up this morning!). Putting off taking the dogs out as yesterday I did a bit of a slide down the hill in the car which was a bit terrifying to say the least.

I just increased my venlafaxine on Friday to 112.5. I did 4 weeks on 75 and had a patch where I was starting to feel a bit better and then had a few really bad days of feeling incapacitated and then back to a bit better again. So frustrating!

[LittleMissAlone]

Hi Pulisa

I'm so glad things are going well for you. One year of agitation, that's tough. I had to google ACT therapy, not heard of it, but yes it sounds perfect for people with long time issues along this line. Accepting this is the way we are without any of these fancy NLP type techniques (which don't work) is the only way to go. It's clearly helping your daughter too.

Yes, I think I'm stronger psychologically too. For the past 3 weeks I've been trying to ring someone I've had a 'thing' for for years now. There's something that needs clearing up. I only have work contact details and he's on school holidays at the moment. It's MASSIVE, Pulisa, but I'm now excited about it, want to get it over and done with. In early October I was sent anonymous flowers in the post and I think they're from him. By mid October I was ill in bed, having had terrible panic attacks at work and having to leave (it was only an agency type job). I've tried emailing and got no response (it's beyond complicated). No one else would have sent flowers. Unless he's married this summer, he's still single, though of course could have a girlfriend.

So for my own sanity that's being sorted! I'll look into this ACT therapy here.

Hi Sharon

I guess stick with the venlafaxine, Joy was sorted in 2 months! Prior to it she had no respite on Mirtazapine 45mg, but she could handle appointments and things, but for her it was just constant, only feeling slightly better with her family.

I'm going to my parents today. No choice, I've got out of it lately because they've not been around. It's another of my mental blocks, but of course they're worried and want to see me. They don't understand. Fortunately I look, seem and act fine and it is relaxing there. I'll just loll about reading the Sunday Times and have my dinner brought to me. I'm so much better now than I was last time I was there anyway. Could only handle 4 hours then.

Anyway, do keep in touch! It's funny hearing about your winter, we had a hot day yesterday!

[pulisa]

I really hope you can make contact, LMA, and that the response is positive. Psyching yourself up to do it is the hardest bit-just bite the bullet and do it without too much mental "preparation" if you can? I understand how massive this will be...

Good luck at your parents today. Staying 4 hours seems like a fair stretch of time to me. Just take it as it comes.

Sharon, it must be hard for you but you always keep going and give your dogs such a good lifestyle despite your own issues. I hope the meds help you to progress on to much better times

[LittleMissAlone]

Thanks Pulisa, see, you are so understanding! The thing with this guy, I've never been told to go away, I've only got work contact details, not his home. Then there's the flowers. Can you imagine having been sent flowers to your home address name spelt right and everything over 10 months ago without knowing? This chap has those details, other reasons too which point me to him. I can only focus on what he's done rather than all the embarrassing things I've done. It's about me and my recovery, not him. For years I've not been able to contact him apart from the odd email which is ignored. Even a negative response will be a help.

I seem to have quite a few friends who are not being as supportive as you'd think. Surely I deserve a bit of good news in my love life? I wouldn't be envious of me!

I'm feeling better about my parents. Mums rung, she's putting no pressure on. It's only an hour away, should be ok.

I agree with you about Sharon and those dogs, as much as I'm jealous of her living by the sea!

Have a lovely day.

[pulisa]

You've got nothing to lose, LMA. Give it a try and see what happens...? If you do nothing then you'll never know what could have been...

Flowers sent to the office sounds very romantic and yet mysterious and intriguing...keep us posted!!

[LittleMissAlone]

Office? Home address! I sent an email asking if he'd sent them at the time, nothing. I've sent 2 messages earlier this year telling him I've been ill (he has an interest in mental health, ha!), nothing. He sounds like a heartless ******* (that'll go!) but it's more than that. I've not blamed him for my being ill, there were other things too, but that was what pushed me over the edge. I've found out through the wonderful internet that his dad died in January so he's been through a tough time himself.

Yes, all those cliches are true. I have to say to myself he's not dead! He's not married, unless he has very recently. He lives about 200 miles away so there's that safe distance, he doesn't do social media.

Just need to know, yes I'll keep you informed. :winks:

[pulisa]

Sorry...I didn't read that properly!

Even better that he doesn't do social media! He's obviously a Man Of Mystery and he must have ben through the mill following his Dad's death. The time sounds right to try to contact him again and it will give you something a lot more positive to focus on...and maybe to get better for...?We all need some motivation and something to look forward to which can be hard to imagine when we are very low..

Good luck today!

[LittleMissAlone]

Thanks for being understanding. Yes, the time is right. My heart did flips the first time I rang, but it's getting easier. Just taking back power. You've probably noticed I can communicate my arse off!

I think his dad had cancer, so possibly horribly ill when the flowers were sent... Yes it is a good sign he doesn't do social media.

Right, will apply the mindfulness principles to heading out!

Thanks for listening to me, I'm aware this isn't as interesting for others as it is for me!

[pulisa]

No, it's very interesting for me and could be highly significant for you. I really hope so!

[LittleMissAlone]

Well, stayed at my parents over 6 hours and ate a tiny lunch, but last time I went I was there 4 hours and ate only a bit of melon. Got there and dad asked how I was feeling and I said fine, and he believed me! They don't get it, do they?

Felt horribly hot throughout. My flat is much cooler and I would have stripped off if alone. But I was wearing a viscose dress, dead sweaty. I think if I wasn't as hot I would have eaten more, could only manage tiny bit of fish, spud and veg. Parents are cool about it, I said I wasn't hungry.

So that's that out the way. Today so much to do (eating healthily and exercise to make up for yesterday) and the phone campaign continues!

[pulisa]

"Fine" can cover a multitude of sins, can't it?! It's such a stock answer but people don't really want to hear beyond that word..

You did very well at your parents and have done your "duty" for a while. I'm sure they were really pleased to see you and have probably been very worried about you...with older people mental health issues are still quite a sticking block..

See what today brings....

[LittleMissAlone]

God, you're so right! This isn't the first blip I've had but they just completely go silent whenever the subject of meds or anything comes up. We've a family friend who's 66 and he's taken to drink and doesn't want to live since his mother died a couple of years ago. I don't have anything like that but I think my parents understand that more than what I go through. I tell them I'm working, not a lot, just a few hours every week. Hilarious really, but they'd be so much more worried if they know the truth. For them it's all about earning money, my generation it's all about being happy (and of course paying the bills which I'm doing too).

Yes, I'm pleased with how I've improved recently, I'm gaining confidence all the time.

Is there a website you could recommend for this ACT therapy you're doing, Pulisa? Wishing good things for you too.

[pulisa]

It's actually my daughter who is doing ACT. She is on the autistic spectrum at the higher functioning end and has her therapy at an NHS specialist unit. I'm not sure how available it is "mainstream"-either in person or online. I think it would be best to have it on a one to one basis personally but I'm sure the waiting list would be very long

There's probably a list of ACT therapists for your area online but this would be private and expensive, I expect.

[LittleMissAlone]

Thank you. :)

[pulisa]

It's not rocket science at all. If you wanted to you could make it rocket science but I'm all for a plain and simple approach with not too many big words/theories:D

Can't stand all the psychobabble-no need for it!

[LittleMissAlone]

You're so right. That friend I told you about, her hearts in the right place and I really like her but she constantly talks in that way. She said something about a hologram the other day! Always talking about energy, which is the sort of concept you naturally switch off from unless it's something obvious like electricity. She says things like asking the universe for things and you'll get it, positive aphorisms about health, wealth and love, etc. She's dyslexic and dyspraxic which quite rightly she sees as a gift (she says she's very intelligent), but I reckon she'd be a better practitioner if she didn't talk in this guff. The woman buys and reads all these books from America and actually takes it in and churns it out. She can make it make sense, but it's gone the second she stops. She believes in this thing called swaying where our bodies sway in a certain way to indicate yes or no, even for things that may have happened to us before we were born! 100%. She doesn't get that I don't get it.

She's doing a 2 day EFT course in February costing £175 but without really asking me she's letting me go for free. I've tactfully tried to say please don't keep the place for me if you can fill it. I don't think I could stomach an hours talk on EFT, 2 days...!

With everything she does, she says the most effective thing there is out there is mindfulness, the one thing we agree on!

---------- Post added at 10:08 ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 ----------

This sort of thing:
http://www.tapintoheaven.com/2stuff/stufstest.shtml

[pulisa]

Err...no thank you! I would keep a very wide berth of that stuff. If people want to believe in it and are prepared to spend money on it, fine, but I don't buy into anything like that.

To be honest mindfulness is no big deal and someone has made a packet out of the "concept". I found a lot of the stuff I would do with my autistic daughter when she was little later on got "patented" and people would treat it as the latest therapy when in fact it was just instinct and common sense. The best things in life are free!

[LittleMissAlone]

Yes, my uncle beat his crippling anxiety without drugs simply by putting himself in the situations which scared him. Of course it's not quick and it's not easy but he says that's the only way to beat it. We are creating the thoughts that's doing this so we can take back control. A bit like that book that was doing the rounds recently. He said don't overthink it, don't find reasons, just feel it and don't be frightened. He's fine for years now, though he was bad for ages. I told him he should write a book, he'd make a mint! Hope for us, but of course he's only interested in helping people, not coining it.

[pulisa]

That's feeling the fear and doing it anyway-Claire Weekes made a mint out of this approach but again it's simple things which have the most effect

[LittleMissAlone]

Just tried ringing the first time this week, talk about feeling the fear! Not answering. But will get there and we'll get this thing sorted. :yesyes:

[pulisa]

If at first you don't succeed.....

[LittleMissAlone]

Hells bells Pulisa. I've done something I said I wouldn't do because there's no point, I've just rung him and left a message and asked him to ring, left my number. I said I'm not expecting him to ring and I'm not going to bother again.

You're disappointed! I'm disappointed, I've chickened out. But it's been 4 weeks now. No idea of his comings and goings. I left 2 messages in the first week. This message sounded less robotic and shouty than those at least. I've not planned what I'm going to say, it'd be even more weird and desperate if I'd been reading it, in my warped mind at least.

So it's wait for the phone call time! When I say he won't ring, I think he'll want to, but he's got a block himself regarding me. Hey, I'm still on the theme of mental blocks! :wacko:

[pulisa]

Well the ball is in his court now and the waiting won't be easy but at least you will know where you stand..

Of course he could be away but you've left your message so he will hear it in due course. I really hope you don't have to wait too long for a response

[LittleMissAlone]

Yes, you never know, he might have grown up (nearly 40!).

[pulisa]

Dare I ask...any news?

[LittleMissAlone]

No! I last rang Tuesday last week and left a message, sounding a bit more cheerful and sane than before, asking him to ring and leaving my number. I said I wasn't expecting him to ring and that I wasn't going to ring again. He's really into sport and may have gone to Rio, I guess, but the phoning started before then so I don't know.

I've hardly given it any thought, which is good, but I know it'll resurface and I'll still have the very basic questions there unanswered.

Oh well, time will tell still!

[pulisa]

That's a very sensible attitude to take. You may get a call when you're least expecting it.

[LittleMissAlone]

Yes. But the main thing is I know I've got the courage to ring him now if I think I really need 'closure' (horrible Americanism), even though I said in the phone message I wouldn't. If he's away someone else might pick up the messages (three of them) and of course they wouldn't understand the significance like he would. I can leave it at least through September anyway. I'm sure it's aiding my recovery which is the whole point.

[pulisa]

You made the right decision and it's obviously given you strength and added confidence in your recovery.It's got to have been a good move all round!

[LittleMissAlone]

Well, there're a lot of things we think are impossible, but I figured this isn't one of them (he's not dead or, I think, married) so we cant be intimidated if it's something that needs understanding. :shrug: