View Full Version : I can not take it anymore! The c fear has destroyed my life
paranoid-viking
07-10-16, 12:25
Yes it has. The fear of pancreatic cancer has taken permanently control over me. I am not able to be happy or enjoying a social life anymore. I curse the day i googled and by coincidence found out that there were some things like ilness in the panncreas and eventually pancreatic cancer. I had a fear of colon cancer some months ago but at least there are hopes in such cases. Not so in PC. Absolutely everyting I read about it; like pateient stories are 100% devastating. Docs are telling me no one under 70 gets it; but virtually all patient stories I read online are people in their 30s and 40s.
I sit alone and I am crying a lot. Crying and thinking that this is it. Everyone offline reassure me I do not have it, but google are telleing me that I most definetely do have it and that it is tricky at first but that sooner or later massive pain will occur and that I will suffer a horrible death in a few weeks after that.
I wish I had never read about pancreatic cancer. I wished I could have lived happily without knowing such cancers existed. A few months ago I did not. For me it would have been better to live and let live instead of being alarmed and read "10 signs of the body you must never ignore" and such. It has disabled me mentally and I am not living, just existing. The fear of PC now owns me and my life. For me I would prefer living happily without knowing such thing cause after all those who gets it dies anyway. Better than having your life ruined by the fear of a disease everyone tells me I do not have. Well, everyone outside the Internet anyway.
ServerError
07-10-16, 12:35
What the doctors are telling you is what you should listen to.
Google is the enemy on stuff like this. You absolutely must stop looking up your fears on Google.
Every illness has the odd horror story. Sometimes people die of a common cold. Illnesses like tonsillitis or constipation - which almost everyone gets - can be deadly in certain circumstances. But the horror stories are very unlikely to happen to you.
The same goes for pancreatic cancer. It's quite rare. Mostly happens to old people. The stories you're reading about are the very rare horror story cases that almost certainly won't happen to you.
You really should seek help with this because, although it doesn't seem it, your fears are irrational.
Google isn't telling you anything. Google is just throwing cold facts at you when you go searching for them. You're filling in the blanks - you're telling yourself you have it, not Google. You're ignoring the bits that say how hugely rare it is, or how it's even rarer it is in people your age, and focusing on the bits where it gives a bullet pointed list of symptoms, all of which could be easily explained by much more common, benign things. You're forgetting that the Internet bubbles interesting stories to the surface through algorithms, and "very old sick man dies of disease" isn't a story like "30 year old man dies of disease" is; stories are powerful because they are rare, which gives us a skewed sense of danger, just like we're more scared of terrorists than we are of getting run down in the street.
Illness is also a dark lottery, sitting there worrying about one disease doesn't mean you're more likely to get it. Do you believe you can predict Saturday's lottery numbers? Then how can you predict the diseases you'll get through life?
What has helped me in HA is giving myself a harsh ticking off. Who am I to argue with trained Doctors due to the fact I have a quick Google every now and then at websites I'm not qualified to understand properly? It's a very presumptuous way to think, when you really think about it.
I'm sure I'm not saying much you don't know, and I hope it passes and you're feeling better soon.
This is a fear I am dealing with right now as well. Something that has helped me a bit in line with some of the advice above is to be very honest with my doctor about this fear.
Something like I am having symptoms X, y, and z, and I am incredibly anxious about PC, what can we do to reassure me that this is not a rational worry right now?
Asking in that way has resulted in some solid feedback.
ServerError
07-10-16, 12:46
This is a fear I am dealing with right now as well. Something that has helped me a bit in line with some of the advice above is to be very honest with my doctor about this fear.
Something like I am having symptoms X, y, and z, and I am incredibly anxious about PC, what can we do to reassure me that this is not a rational worry right now?
Asking in that way has resulted in some solid feedback.
Anything that works is fantastic. However, reassurance seeking is something we need to be careful with. Ultimately, the person the anxiety sufferer needs to talk to is a therapist. Don't get me wrong, if a doctor's appointment can help, then great. But it mustn't become a pattern. It became one for me for a bit.
Not having a go at you or anything. It's great to hear you've been able to begin tackling your fear.
Absolutely...I agree.
---------- Post added at 07:55 ---------- Previous post was at 07:50 ----------
Another thing that can help is looking at most likely explanations. For instance this morning (TMI alert) I had a pretty loose stool. This has worried me in the past and I have spiraled with that worry. However I just went up a dose in Sertraline, and that is an incredibly common side with a dose increase. Far, far, far more likely that is the reason for the stool (or simply just because, or anxiety, or having eaten late at night last night) than something connected to a rare disease.
Another thought on PC stories online....folks in their 30s and 40s are more likely to be online in general than 70s and 80s, probably by incredible degrees of magnitude.
paranoid-viking
07-10-16, 13:16
Thanks everyone. I really apreciate your replys.
I was testing myself for celiac and I really hoped that the results would be positive because than I could think "thank God that was the reason behind my stomach discomfort and not something to do with the pancreas"; having to live on more expensive food catering to celiac patients is something I could live with. A search on Mayo also said that celiac was what fitted my symptoms best so it was devastating that it came back negative.
With patient stories I am talking about those posted on Pancreatic Cancer websites. I understand that these are for other victims to give them hope and support. But for someone with HA anxiety these stories give neither hope or support - to the contrary they just feed me with more horror and fear so much fear that I scream and cry in horror. Stories also telling that the docs telling them it was nothing, probably IBS, that they were too young to have PC etc and yet that is what they did turned out to have. Although such stories are intended for other patients with PC I bet that the majoiruty who read them are cybercondriacs considering how uncommon ths cancer actually is. Dont get me wrong, I am not selfish and I wish for these unfortunate victims that as many as possible of these victims survive and that science very soon will come up with a radical breakthrough in cancer tratment, just like they did with HIV treatment in the late 1990s. I guess AIDS disapeared from many hypocondriacs fear list after that as well.
I am definetely not afraid of dying from a common cold; after old; that is happening only to very old people or very chronically ill people. I am afraid of dying from cancer with an extremely high and overwhelming mortality rate.
In my horror now I am thinking it is better to live life fully up to the day oone dies suddenly than to live a long life and get old but having nothing to look back to in life than fear and anxiety. You know; I really did not need to know about pancreatic cancer even if it turns out I have it. Then I could live happily to the day it turned violently instead of worrying myself to death the whole time.
---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:13 ----------
[QUOTE=
Another thought on PC stories online....folks in their 30s and 40s are more likely to be online in general than 70s and 80s, probably by incredible degrees of magnitude.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but these people are interviewd by support groups online.
And then there are sites that say you must never ignore vague and mild discomfort in the body. I wish I COULD ignore them. The majority of people do ignore small muscle spasms, sore throats and ocasionally coughing. Because 99,9% of the time it really is nothing. Media is actually encouriging people to be hypocondriacs and causing the health services to get out of control do to massive visits of people fearing deadly diseases for the smallest things.
And I blame sensationalist media for having ruined my life. This spring they were agresively writing about colon cancer and "symptoms you must never ignore". Plus "more younger people gets it". That was the start of the downward spiral for me.
Have you stopped drinking? Doing so will lessen the chances of all sorts of uglies.
Positive thoughts
paranoid-viking
07-10-16, 13:18
Have you stopped drinking? Doing so will lessen the chances of all sorts of uglies.
Positive thoughts
Having a glass of wine now and then, no full bottle. Only a social beer.:)
You need to stop even considering looking at cancer forums. They are there for a specific purpose, not so anxious people can diagnose themselves, and the people there shouldn't have to censor themselves in case someone with HA is reading them - they have far bigger things to worry about. If the worst ever happens and any of us are diagnosed (by a doctor, not Google) that's the time to visit those forums. But you will only do yourself damage by obsessing and visiting them.
paranoid-viking
07-10-16, 16:18
You need to stop even considering looking at cancer forums. They are there for a specific purpose, not so anxious people can diagnose themselves, and the people there shouldn't have to censor themselves in case someone with HA is reading them - they have far bigger things to worry about. If the worst ever happens and any of us are diagnosed (by a doctor, not Google) that's the time to visit those forums. But you will only do yourself damage by obsessing and visiting them.
The people on cancer forums are defintely not censoring themselves. As I previously mentioned I saw the worst excample of confirmation bias when a hypocondriac doing heavy mountainbiking was dropping into a lung cancer forum and asked if a heavy cough hed had after heavy exercise was a symptom of lung cancer - something it definitevely is NOT when looking rationally about it - but 100% of the pople there gave no reasurrance and to the contrary told him that this was most ikely a sign of lung cancer and some of the replies were chilling to put it mildly; no surprise, because cancer patients only knows their own stories and how the ilness came as a shock; but that does not makes them expert on bodily conditions. So that should be a warning example why a cybercondriacs should never ever post on a forum for cancer patients - because if you want confirmation bias and more fear, THAT is the place to do it. I have never posted on a cancer forum and I never will. If I did my fear would even be worse. Plus, I have enough sensibility to bother them with my paranoia.
What was the reason behind the mountainbikers couging? I guess without knowing it he answered it in his own story, he coughed because of heavy exersise. I reading it understood it, but obviously none of those replying.
---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 14:32 ----------
And just now I had the most violent panic attack. I flt some discomfort in the stomach but had the nasty feeling that something very bad and painful would turn up any moment and that within short time I would be at the hospital.
I can not take it much longer. I am considering having myself locked up in a mental institution.
If I still exist one year from now without development of more serious cancer looking symptoms I will finally let it rest and realize it is not pancreatic cancer. But a year is a long time. A very long time. How can I cope with it?
Why do we have to wait a year?
Tell yourself now that you don't have it.
You know its paranoia, you just said it.
So let it go... now...
Keep telling yourself you don't have it.
You have a perfect pancreas. It's your anxiety that has got you into this state.
So just don't listen to your anxiety anymore, because it is wrong.
paranoid-viking
07-10-16, 16:40
Why do we have to wait a year?
Tell yourself now that you don't have it.
You know its paranoia, you just said it.
So let it go... now...
Keep telling yourself you don't have it.
You have a perfect pancreas. It's your anxiety that has got you into this state.
So just don't listen to your anxiety anymore, because it is wrong.
But the horrible horrible nightmare stories I read tells of small tumours that scannings fails to detect. But if I exist one year from now it is impossible that I had it. And if my stomach discomfort is gone within a month I dont have it either and can relax. But what if my stomach discomfort is caused by my anxiety. Then it will not go away and I will continue to fear it is becuase of the pancreas. A vicious circle.
I've been on the site long enough to recognize a severe spiral when I see one and unfortunately, IMO, you're circling the drain at the moment. No amount of logic or reassurance is helping or will help right now and frankly, you're just pouring gasoline on the fire by posting and dwelling on this fear.
As I and many suggest, seeking professional help in the form of therapy and/or meds would be a step in the right direction. There is help but it's up to you to take that step.
Good luck and positive thoughts
Kathryn313
07-10-16, 19:06
And then there are sites that say you must never ignore vague and mild discomfort in the body. I wish I COULD ignore them. The majority of people do ignore small muscle spasms, sore throats and ocasionally coughing. Because 99,9% of the time it really is nothing. Media is actually encouriging people to be hypocondriacs and causing the health services to get out of control do to massive visits of people fearing deadly diseases for the smallest things.
You haven't ignored it. You have got checked out by your GP, had the tests and they have come back clear. When do you start therapy?
paranoid-viking
08-10-16, 15:10
I've been on the site long enough to recognize a severe spiral when I see one and unfortunately, IMO, you're circling the drain at the moment. No amount of logic or reassurance is helping or will help right now and frankly, you're just pouring gasoline on the fire by posting and dwelling on this fear.
As I and many suggest, seeking professional help in the form of therapy and/or meds would be a step in the right direction. There is help but it's up to you to take that step.
Good luck and positive thoughts
I AM seeking help, but the waiting list for seeing a pshycologist is long here.
You have to wait for months actually. Unless I pay a little fortune to see one at an expensive private institution. Being commited to an asylum is not easy either; due to a dark history in the past of people being wrongly commited against their will and tales of lobotemy and such. Even as an adult you need to have the closest ones in the family to recommend that you go to the ward. And it will probavly not happen unless I am lying helplessely in bed not wanting to move out of it.
paranoid-viking
21-10-16, 11:25
Some updates on my situation. As I have toold I have suffered a semi - permanent constipation/slow stomach since June or late May; dont remember correctly; which was the beginning of my worries. I bought Multidophilious in a health food shop; that is tablets with probiotic bacteries; which has helped considerably in BMs. Somehow the pain in the stomach has slowed down a bit. Adding to that; I have stopped eating chillies and spicy food. Used to love it; but now I get inflmation in the stomach very fast. It has helped a bit to. I still get discomfort that comes and goes, especially on my sides as well as itching on the lefet side. But - a glimpse of hope it is nevertheless.
unsure_about_this
21-10-16, 11:33
The C word has destroyed my life and have wasted hours and hours of panic and worrying, with some sensible checks about getting something checked out.
All my scans and checks have come back fine, only things have been find are cysts round the epdidymis and a smallish normal pouch on the small bowel which is pretty common, not serious (she drew a picture for me and my parents a few years ago) did not keyhole to removed it.
I could have spent the time wisely finding myself a partner/girlfriend and enjoying life.
MyNameIsTerry
21-10-16, 11:33
Some updates on my situation. As I have toold I have suffered a semi - permanent constipation/slow stomach since June or late May; dont remember correctly; which was the beginning of my worries. I bought Multidophilious in a health food shop; that is tablets with probiotic bacteries; which has helped considerably in BMs. Somehow the pain in the stomach has slowed down a bit. Adding to that; I have stopped eating chillies and spicy food. Used to love it; but now I get inflmation in the stomach very fast. It has helped a bit to. I still get discomfort that comes and goes, especially on my sides as well as itching on the lefet side. But - a glimpse of hope it is nevertheless.
Smart move. Probiotics help lots of people with GI issues.
You've been afraid of some nasty forms of cancer. Can you rationalise, or try to, on this basis I.e. no probiotic would change those symptoms?
paranoid-viking
21-10-16, 11:46
Smart move. Probiotics help lots of people with GI issues.
You've been afraid of some nasty forms of cancer. Can you rationalise, or try to, on this basis I.e. no probiotic would change those symptoms?
You mean that if I really had that death sentence the Probiotics would not help anything?
MyNameIsTerry
21-10-16, 11:56
You mean that if I really had that death sentence the Probiotics would not help anything?
Yes. Just like how you may see another person on here be worrying about cancer and their doctor successfully treating them with antibiotics, which have no impact on cancer.
paranoid-viking
21-10-16, 12:03
The C word has destroyed my life and have wasted hours and hours of panic and worrying, with some sensible checks about getting something checked out.
All my scans and checks have come back fine, only things have been find are cysts round the epdidymis and a smallish normal pouch on the small bowel which is pretty common, not serious (she drew a picture for me and my parents a few years ago) did not keyhole to removed it.
I could have spent the time wisely finding myself a partner/girlfriend and enjoying life.
100% agree. All this worrying are deprieving us of life. I previously critisised elemtents in cancer awarenes campaigns; not the campaigns in itself, but how they are presented and how they are agresively targeting everyone with fearmongering because they DO. Like presenting exceptions as the rule. Fact is that 80% of pancreatic cancer patients are between 70 and 90, but these campaigns are given the impresion that most of the patients are between 23 and 45, because this is the age range of most of the people they use in their campaigns; which is misleading and use of exceptions as the rule. And they tells horror tales of misdiagnosis and how doctors at first were wrong and "never ever ignore a stomach pain or depresion". Not a single word on how to prevent it. Awgh; I feel that I get a pain on my left rib just when i write this. Hope that is connected:blush:
My point? Yeah; I could have enjoyed life; but some people are encouraging me to be worried and interpretate every single discomfort as a death sentence.
ServerError
21-10-16, 13:56
The world isn't going to change to suit your particular psychological response to health campaigns. You may be right - it may all be too much. But is it going to change any time soon? I doubt it.
All I ever see when you post is self pity. We've all experienced self pity at times, but if you actually want to enjoy life, you have no choice but to kick this woe-is-me attitude to the kerb and start dealing with the world as it is and not how you want it to be.
Think about it. Even most anxiety sufferers manage to hold their health worries together around these campaigns, so if others can do it, so can you. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I just don't know what you want around here. Other posters get some very tetchy or sarcastic responses, yet you get an easy ride. I've seen nothing in you that suggest you're prepared to start working to improve your life in the world as it is now.
If you feel truly defeated, down, depressed and hopeless then you must seek treatment for this.
paranoid-viking
21-10-16, 14:22
I am not just thinking about myself but also those I may leave behind if I should die, something that makes it worse. I live alone, but I am not completely lonely in the world, so the prospect of dying away from people that I love and who love me is horrible. If fearing death it would be much easier if I was completely lonely in the world and no one would miss me. Few of us lives solely for ourself but has a responsibility for other around us aswell.
Suffering from health anxiety is different from one person to another. And it warries over time. For me it comes and goes. I always had it but mostly it would not last for long. Right kknow there is an existensial crisis that hopefully would not last to long, and in case you did not read one of my post; the first I wrote today as an update things are already improving and I am seing a light in the end of the tunnel. I am not constantly thinking about dying a horrible death. As for our disagreamennt on public death and ilness focus, let us just agree on the fact that we disagree. You have one opinion about it; I have another. There is not really much to debate anymmore as I know that you know that I know that we disagree on this matter so let us put that one to rest.
ServerError
21-10-16, 14:27
And what good is this current state of yours doing the people you care about?
Don't get me wrong, I know we can't just 'snap out of' a mental health problem. But I don't see how you can possibly have the life you want while tearing yourself apart in this way.
paranoid-viking
21-10-16, 16:10
And what good is this current state of yours doing the people you care about?
Don't get me wrong, I know we can't just 'snap out of' a mental health problem. But I don't see how you can possibly have the life you want while tearing yourself apart in this way.
It is not doing anyhting good of course. Dealing with the fear of the Grim Reaper waiting outside your door ready to chop me to pieces. How does one deal with it? I dont know. I think time is the only thing that can heal me in the end.
BTW, this thread was brought to first page again because I came in with an update on my situation at 12:25 which was not about self pitying at all, but rather about an aptemt to better the situation. Did you read it?
---------- Post added at 17:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:05 ----------
The world isn't going to change to suit your particular psychological response to health campaigns. You may be right - it may all be too much. But is it going to change any time soon? I doubt it.
No, I can not change things just by stating my own opinion about it but at least I can state my opinion. Just like I can state an opinion that I wished the US had a third alternative to those two IMO awful awful president candidates. Well, thats politics so I am not gonna discus that here haha:D But it goes for the same. I can disagree with things it is good as impossible for me to do anything about but it will not stop me for having an opinion about it.
ServerError
21-10-16, 16:47
Nobody's asking you to change your opinion. But this is an anxiety forum. We try to actually help people deal with things as best we can. Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you. My simple point is that the things you blame for making you so anxious and so worried aren't going to change. What can change is your reaction to them and the thought processes you go through. I'm simply trying to help you see this, because nobody ever recovered from anxiety of any form by continually allowing it to beat them down.
Nobody's asking you to change your opinion. But this is an anxiety forum. We try to actually help people deal with things as best we can. Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you. My simple point is that the things you blame for making you so anxious and so worried aren't going to change. What can change is your reaction to them and the thought processes you go through. I'm simply trying to help you see this, because nobody ever recovered from anxiety of any form by continually allowing it to beat them down.
Amen!
Positive thoughts
unsure_about_this
21-10-16, 17:45
My comment about worrying about the big c no stop was not meant to disrespect people who have had cancer or who have known/had peoplw with cancer.
ServerError
21-10-16, 17:55
My comment about worrying about the big c no stop was not meant to disrespect people who have had cancer or who have known/had peoplw with cancer.
Your worry is a symptom of your anxiety disorder. Nobody would think you meant any disrespect.
paranoid-viking
21-10-16, 18:00
My comment about worrying about the big c no stop was not meant to disrespect people who have had cancer or who have known/had peoplw with cancer.
Neither is any comment I have made. My dad had a tumour removed earlier this year and I prayed to God that everything would turn out fine. It did and he had one of these cancers with high survival rate.
But I wonder if all this subconsiously led to my fear. Plus the fact that there was a colon cancer awarenes in the media at the same time. I dont know; our brains works in mysterious ways. Needles to say my dad is not the one I would want to talk to about my anxieties as I would feel very guilty.
Nobody thinks either of you have been disrespectful,if they did they'd have said.
Paranoid-viking perhaps it has led to your fear..Although I had health anxiety prior, my Mams breast cancer diagnosis had me worried about my own breast health. I started worrying about potential family links etc and read some scary things. I think it's only natural to worry a little bit when a relative is diagnosed. I even went to the docs for a breast exam (a huge deal for me as I have BDD).
paranoid-viking
21-10-16, 18:38
Nobody's asking you to change your opinion. But this is an anxiety forum. We try to actually help people deal with things as best we can. Believe it or not, I'm trying to help you. My simple point is that the things you blame for making you so anxious and so worried aren't going to change. What can change is your reaction to them and the thought processes you go through. I'm simply trying to help you see this, because nobody ever recovered from anxiety of any form by continually allowing it to beat them down.
I dont think there is an easy and radical cure to cure the fear immediately. But a good thing I believe; is to relocate oneself for a while to an area with no Internet connection; at least of the anxiety is constantly fueled by millions of webpages with nightmarish information.
And in Norway there are plenty of such lovely outdoor escapes from all the horrors of the world. Althoug it is not the most suitable time of year now of course:
http://erikenger.com/Bilder/Hardangervidda_18.jpg
And doing so works for a while - until you are home and logging into your computer:weep:
Access to too much health "information" is not necessarily a good thing...
ServerError
21-10-16, 20:16
Access to too much health "information" is not necessarily a good thing...
It doesn't matter whether it's good or not. Unless you're planning a high profile campaign, it's not going to change any time soon. So all that matters is your reaction to it.
I actually meant googling health related information on the internet
ServerError
21-10-16, 20:30
I actually meant googling health related information on the internet
Yeah, very much a "do not do".
Ignorance is bliss. Nowaday, we have the internet at our finger tips. The more things i googled about my current condition, the worse i feel. You know what I do when I can't stand it anymore (the fear, anxiety)? i hugged my 3year-old daughter. feeling her warm calms me down a lot.
Yo, it's been a while since I last posted in these forums.
I found this thread when I came to check how everything was going and decided to jump in because it reminds me a bit of myself 1 year ago (and to a lesser degree, still now).
I also had your same worries about pancan eventhough I'm only 26 (absolutely ridiculous), and I was convinced I had it because I had some symptoms that were, according to dr. google, very typical like sharp upper left and right abdominal pain that radiates to the back.
After batteries of tests including CT thoracic scans, ultrasounds and what not, nothing was found, only very small kidney stones in my right kidney which were meaningless.
Later on I was tested for H.Pylori and it came back positive, so I was put on antibiotics which I finished about 3 months ago. At the beginning the antibiotics wrecked my guts :roflmao:but later it normalized, and here I am now. For now, no more SHARP pains like I had before, only very mild at best, and they're also less frequent.
Recently I also thought I had blood clots in my left leg, because one of my veins was like "lumpy" and it hurt like hell around it. Pancan, right? Wrong. I knew that I couldn't trust myself so I went to the doc who ordered an ultrasound for my left leg and he found enthesitis (inflammation of the area where tendons and ligaments attach to the bone), a condition strongly linked to 3 types of arthritis: ankylosing spondilitis, reactive arthritis or psoriatic arthitis.
It's very likely that, in the end, all my pains were just caused by arthritis. Who would've imagined, right? Instead of the almost impossible pancan. Or maybe it was the H.pylori, or both.
But long story short is (TL;DR) I had your same fears 1 year ago, with actual typical symptoms, and here I am 1 year later, still alive :). You see? Not all the stories in the internet are sinister. Could I wake up one day and suddenly get diagnosed with it? Well... could I wake up one day and have a meteor fall on my car? Or could I wake up one day and realize I won the euro lottery? Meh, these are questions I just don't really want to ask myself anymore.
I'm sure you also won't have it, it's a very easy statistical assumption to make.
Carrie8484
23-10-16, 18:35
Access to too much health "information" is not necessarily a good thing...
This is very true. Not that I take my own advice...but
In Optics we always say the patients who know a small/medium amount of information about eye health etc are the worst ones ... Because they are constantly searching for problems, answers, googling, asking others and getting lots of different bits of information together that they then present to us and they are in a panic about their eyes.
The appointments are often more about reassurance than anything once we tell them their eyes are fine.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 01:43
Yo, it's been a while since I last posted in these forums.
I found this thread when I came to check how everything was going and decided to jump in because it reminds me a bit of myself 1 year ago (and to a lesser degree, still now).
I also had your same worries about pancan eventhough I'm only 26 (absolutely ridiculous), and I was convinced I had it because I had some symptoms that were, according to dr. google, very typical like sharp upper left and right abdominal pain that radiates to the back.
After batteries of tests including CT thoracic scans, ultrasounds and what not, nothing was found, only very small kidney stones in my right kidney which were meaningless.
Later on I was tested for H.Pylori and it came back positive, so I was put on antibiotics which I finished about 3 months ago. At the beginning the antibiotics wrecked my guts :roflmao:but later it normalized, and here I am now. For now, no more SHARP pains like I had before, only very mild at best, and they're also less frequent.
Recently I also thought I had blood clots in my left leg, because one of my veins was like "lumpy" and it hurt like hell around it. Pancan, right? Wrong. I knew that I couldn't trust myself so I went to the doc who ordered an ultrasound for my left leg and he found enthesitis (inflammation of the area where tendons and ligaments attach to the bone), a condition strongly linked to 3 types of arthritis: ankylosing spondilitis, reactive arthritis or psoriatic arthitis.
It's very likely that, in the end, all my pains were just caused by arthritis. Who would've imagined, right? Instead of the almost impossible pancan. Or maybe it was the H.pylori, or both.
But long story short is (TL;DR) I had your same fears 1 year ago, with actual typical symptoms, and here I am 1 year later, still alive :). You see? Not all the stories in the internet are sinister. Could I wake up one day and suddenly get diagnosed with it? Well... could I wake up one day and have a meteor fall on my car? Or could I wake up one day and realize I won the euro lottery? Meh, these are questions I just don't really want to ask myself anymore.
I'm sure you also won't have it, it's a very easy statistical assumption to make.
It is nice to hear from someone with similar experiences and good to hear that there was really nothing to fear. I really pray that I will be alive one year from now and wished I had never ever read abouit such a horrific thing as pancreatic cancer. Of course we fear the worst case scenario and not more common and less dangerous illnesses. Did a google check out of curiosity; there are million more pages for pancreatic cancer than for way more common things like gastritis or stomach ulcer. It really proves my point that there is an extreme and aggresive over focus on worst case certain death scenarios. That is the curse of the Internet.
BTW, I was not given a CT scan. My doc will not recommend it and says that abdominal ultrasound was more than good enough to prove that my pancreas is perfectly good. Over the last days I felt better but today I got much worse again. Less inflamation of middle stomach but sharper pains around the ribs radiating aroung the back. And there is some itching on my tummy that makes me scream "jaundice". Althoug I am not yellow. And there is a burning an stichy feeling rightuinder the ribs. Pain that moves around from one pont to the other. And today I had quite a little pain on my left side.
So the fear comes and goes as do the pain.
---------- Post added at 02:43 ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 ----------
Access to too much health "information" is not necessarily a good thing...
Depends on what you call "health information". Real health information is writings about how to live a helathy life which will minimalise pain and the risk of developing nasty ilnesses. Such focus is always positive and I am welcoming it.
What there is to much of then is not health information but death and horror information. List of symptoms for deadly diseases has nothing to do with health info as long as it does not contain any info on PREVENTION.
Depends on what you call "health information". Real health information is writings about how to live a helathy life which will minimalise pain and the risk of developing nasty ilnesses. Such focus is always positive and I am welcoming it.
What there is to much of then is not health information but death and horror information. List of symptoms for deadly diseases has nothing to do with health info as long as it does not contain any info on PREVENTION.
I agree with this.
A lot of websites or media in general resort to fear mongering to attract viewers/clicks/whatever. They blow things way, waaaaay out of proportion for their own benefit. I already wrote a rant about this a few months ago in this forum, I'll just link to it:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1536342&postcount=10
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 02:19
I agree with this.
A lot of websites or media in general resort to fear mongering to attract viewers/clicks/whatever. They blow things way, waaaaay out of proportion for their own benefit. I already wrote a rant about this a few months ago in this forum, I'll just link to it:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1536342&postcount=10
Wow. That was a great write. I can agree 100% with everything you write in it. Especially about young people being told to be aware of PC. In a awareness campaing in the UK they used the only 23 year old with pancreatic cancer in the kingdom, God bless her soul, for the awareness campaign. A tragedy nevertheless, but still way over the top misleading as this is not a representative case for PC at all. They may aswell have a rabies awareness campaign as there is as musch as two - 2 - people in the entire United States anually, in a population of 300 million who gets rabies. Or a "what if your child gets progaria" as there is about 15 children in the entire world suffering from this rapid ageing disease.
I started a thread where I brought up the same points as you are coming with here although it was heavily critisised; and I think some other posters misunderstood the point I was trying to make:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=189793
As for your post, in the web pages for the awarenes campaigns the info about symptoms are written by MDs but they are using exceptions as the rule without mentioning how extremely nklikely it is that young people get certain cancers and not mentioning that symptoms like stomach pain and anxiety is a million more times likely to be something else. These campaigns are also trying to raise money for the course; something that is noble enough but I dont think fear mongering and nightmarish nightmare stories is the way to do it. I dont like it. I really do not. I can donate money that goes directly to science for developing a cure; but please do not shower me with nightmare stories about young people with the death sentence. I am ready to get more flames for my opinion about this, but this is firmly my stance on this fearmongering.
Wow. That was a great write. I can agree 100% with everything you write in it. Especially about young people being told to be aware of PC. In a awareness campaing in the UK they used the only 23 year old with pancreatic cancer in the kingdom, God bless her soul, for the awareness campaign. A tragedy nevertheless, but still way over the top misleading as this is not a representative case for PC at all. They may aswell have a rabies awareness campaign as there is as musch as two - 2 - people in the entire United States anually, in a population of 300 million who gets rabies. Or a "what if your child gets progaria" as there is about 15 children in the entire world suffering from this rapid ageing disease.
I started a thread where I brought up the same points as you are coming with here although it was heavily critisised; and I think some other posters misunderstood the point I was trying to make:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=189793
As for your post, in the web pages for the awarenes campaigns the info about symptoms are written by MDs but they are using exceptions as the rule without mentioning how extremely nklikely it is that young people get certain cancers and not mentioning that symptoms like stomach pain and anxiety is a million more times likely to be something else. These campaigns are also trying to raise money for the course; something that is noble enough but I dont think fear mongering and nightmarish nightmare stories is the way to do it. I dont like it. I really do not. I can donate money that goes directly to science for developing a cure; but please do not shower me with nightmare stories about young people with the death sentence. I am ready to get more flames for my opinion about this, but this is firmly my stance on this fearmongering.
I read most of the thread and, yeah, I agree, we pretty much share the same point of view on this matter.
Some people say it's a necessary evil... however, is it? Some of the awareness campaigns like those for breast cancer for sure are helpful and should stay, however the ones about pancan targeted to young people (to use the same example again) make no sense at all, and they do more harm than good. Maybe they help get... 1? Maybe 2 people in their thirties diagnosed earlier and thus help them get earlier treatment, which is fantastic and all, but at the same time they're also screwing over dozens, hundreds, or considering the amount of traffic they generate maybe thousands of people with health anxiety, or people who don't have health anxiety yet but after reading or watching these campaigns they're going to develop it, they're essentially creating new hypochondriacs or at the very least triggering the sleeping hypochondria on people who were previously fine <--- This is me 5 years ago.
For me, to use myself as an example, it all started 5 years ago. I was your average Joe, a guy who liked studying, going out, having fun, sports, whatever, I never thought about my health at all. One day my dog got diagnosed with cancer - it was a lymphoma- so I used the internet to search about it, to see if we could do something to cure him or at least help him. Normal, right? The problem is that during this process I also inevitably stumbled upon sites with information about human lymphoma. Like the curious guy that I am, I was like "Eh, let's check this information out, why not? Education is education", and that was when I started reading all the fear mongering and malarkey that is posted in the internet. Stuff like "check your body for lumps, enlarged lymph nodes can point to lymphoma" etc. During that time I didn't think it was BS or blown out of proportion, I thought it was proper, filtered information, so suddenly I was under the impression that this terrible disease that I almost knew nothing about before called "cancer" was actually super common and I began getting worried. I'm an adult and I'm not going to go ahead and "blame" the internet or the media for my past and present HA, but I'm also not going to deny the fact that they played an important role on it.
These campaigns are not targeted for hypochondriacs or healthy people? Well, maybe some are not, but even still they have to understand that in the era we live in, everybody, healthy or not, is going to be able to access the information they make available so they should account for this collateral damage or otherwise they're being unfair to all of these hundreds of people.
In cases like the pancan example above, I don't think the end justifies the means at all. In cases like breast cancer or testicular cancer awareness, or hell, pancan awareness but properly targeted to people over 60, sure, these ones do more good than bad and should stay as a necessary evil.
This topic is very controversial though, and I see why some people might get the wrong idea or we might come accross as people who are against awareness campaigns per se, when this is not the case at all.
MyNameIsTerry
24-10-16, 05:02
I agree with this.
A lot of websites or media in general resort to fear mongering to attract viewers/clicks/whatever. They blow things way, waaaaay out of proportion for their own benefit. I already wrote a rant about this a few months ago in this forum, I'll just link to it:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1536342&postcount=10
The rest of the thread in case PV wants a look:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1536342#post1536342
---------- Post added at 04:58 ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 ----------
The simple FACT is, HA doesn't kill, cancer can. They won't change what they do unless there is a significant reason to and unfortunately unless HA sufferers campaign together, you won't get anywhere as you are a tiny % of the population. You can add strength to this by joining up with no anxiety sufferers who disagree with the tone of the campaigns to add weight. Again, unless you are significant numbers, no one will care in the slightest.
As for whether it's a cause, that's something to certainly look into. However, Dr Google is another, but then so are all the medical books HA sufferers used to buy before the internet came along. Is there any proof out there? Has anyone ever done any studies of this?
Not long ago we had adverts for prostate cancer awareness. A young guy telling his dad to check for things. Like what? Prostate cancer doesn't always show sighs and you can have it for years without realising because of even minor symptoms you don't look into. The latter makes a case for the awareness campaign BUT does it? If you are having problems with your waterworks, wouldn't you see your GP anyway? I found this campaign to be pretty pointless because it was literally saying "if you have a problem DOWN THERE why not see a GP?" Men may not see a GP out of embarrassment and they are hoping to influence those types of men. Other than them, these adverts are pointless because it's not like we can even check our prostate. Sure, we can have a play with it but we have no clue what we are doing as it takes the training of a doctor to understand the differences between various things, not just cancer, so it just comes back to "unwell DOWN THERE? See a doctor".
---------- Post added at 05:02 ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 ----------
The world isn't going to change to suit your particular psychological response to health campaigns. You may be right - it may all be too much. But is it going to change any time soon? I doubt it.
All I ever see when you post is self pity. We've all experienced self pity at times, but if you actually want to enjoy life, you have no choice but to kick this woe-is-me attitude to the kerb and start dealing with the world as it is and not how you want it to be.
Think about it. Even most anxiety sufferers manage to hold their health worries together around these campaigns, so if others can do it, so can you. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but I just don't know what you want around here. Other posters get some very tetchy or sarcastic responses, yet you get an easy ride. I've seen nothing in you that suggest you're prepared to start working to improve your life in the world as it is now.
If you feel truly defeated, down, depressed and hopeless then you must seek treatment for this.
This is what people need to remember ^^^^^^^^^^
At my worst with my OCD I couldn't get past lamp posts due to reading the numbers over & over again. I couldn't stop myself reading car number plates, front & back. Campaigning to change this would be nothing compared to changing my mind to not need to do it - I changed my mind, I no longer do it.
That's the goal. The world is full of injustices to some people and aside from living in Minecraft, you just have to learn to handle it without it affecting you.
And of you want scary campaigns, look at the AIDS campaigns of the 80's. Scare yourself shitless level they were. They gave the impression that not walking around with 3 condoms on all the time meant AIDS was your future. :winks:
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 13:55
The rest of the thread in case PV wants a look:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1536342#post1536342
---------- Post added at 04:58 ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 ----------
The simple FACT is, HA doesn't kill, cancer can.
I am not sure if I entirely agree with that. There are various degrees of HA, from minimal health concern to disasterous thinking that can be completly disabling. HA can in extreme cases also leads to anorexia which indeed is life threstening. I am not sure if extreme hypocondriacs has committed suicide but I would not be surpised if it has. HA is a mental condition and for some it is no big deal but for othere; and not just for themselves but also for their families affected it is definitely a serious mental health condition. I read an article of a woman who became dysfunctional out of fear for pancreatic cancer and failed to look after her children because of that and in the end was committed to a mental asylum. A tragedy for the woman and for her children. Yes, HA in many way IS a big deal so I dont agree that things and factors out in society are blameles and Internet has definetely caused a growth in severe and very serious HA cases. It is definitely no joke.
---------- Post added at 14:26 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------
I read most of the thread and, yeah, I agree, we pretty much share the same point of view on this matter.
Some people say it's a necessary evil... however, is it? Some of the awareness campaigns like those for breast cancer for sure are helpful and should stay, however the ones about pancan targeted to young people (to use the same example again) make no sense at all, and they do more harm than good. Maybe they help get... 1? Maybe 2 people in their thirties diagnosed earlier and thus help them get earlier treatment, which is fantastic and all, but at the same time they're also screwing over dozens, hundreds, or considering the amount of traffic they generate maybe thousands of people with health anxiety, or people who don't have health anxiety yet but after reading or watching these campaigns they're going to develop it, they're essentially creating new hypochondriacs or at the very least triggering the sleeping hypochondria on people who were previously fine <--- This is me 5 years ago.
You can be 100% sure there are more young people sworming over the Internet with "I am convinced I have pancreatic cancer" posts than there actually ARE young people with pancreatic cancer.
---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:26 ----------
In cases like the pancan example above, I don't think the end justifies the means at all. In cases like breast cancer or testicular cancer awareness, or hell, pancan awareness but properly targeted to people over 60, sure, these ones do more good than bad and should stay as a necessary evil.
I think there may be elements of cynical marketing strategies in these campaigns as well; as they make think that if they did use typical PC patients around 75 years old in their campaigns they would fail to get the economical support they need. So instead they are using the youngest victims they could find and using them in the campaigns; even though it is extremely uncommon in that age group.
I dont doubt that that the campaigns are using profesional people working with commercials; so in that way it alsom becomes hypocritical; people selling unhealthy product that can increase cancer risks with one hand and scaring pople with cancer facts with the other. For money.
---------- Post added at 14:33 ---------- Previous post was at 14:31 ----------
The rest of the thread in case PV wants a look:
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1536342#post1536342
---------- Post added at 04:58 ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 ----------
The simple FACT is, HA doesn't kill, cancer can. They won't change what they do unless there is a significant reason to and unfortunately unless HA sufferers campaign together, you won't get anywhere as you are a tiny % of the population.
There are definetely much more hypocondriacs than there are people between 20 and 40 with pancreatic cancer. Many many many times more. As written in the post above here, about 4 people anually in the UK in their 20s with PC. Obviously more HA sufferers including those obesessed with the fear of pancreatic cancer who might be healthy and happy without knowledge of this vile disease.
---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 14:33 ----------
And of you want scary campaigns, look at the AIDS campaigns of the 80's. Scare yourself shitless level they were. They gave the impression that not walking around with 3 condoms on all the time meant AIDS was your future. :winks:
I can imagine. And the "awareness" of AIDS in the 1980s; which was full of lies and misleading information, did more harm than good to the real AIDS victims. They were left alone in isolation the hospitals; friends and family to scared to visit them and give them suppport. Medical stuff too were paranpid and used gloves and mouth covering. It should be in the history books as the worst case of faremongering about ilnesses ever. HIV and AIDS victims were the lepers of the 1980s.
---------- Post added at 14:55 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ----------
Yo, it's been a while since I last posted in these forums.
I found this thread when I came to check how everything was going and decided to jump in because it reminds me a bit of myself 1 year ago (and to a lesser degree, still now).
I also had your same worries about pancan eventhough I'm only 26 (absolutely ridiculous), and I was convinced I had it because I had some symptoms that were, according to dr. google, very typical like sharp upper left and right abdominal pain that radiates to the back.
After batteries of tests including CT thoracic scans, ultrasounds and what not, nothing was found, only very small kidney stones in my right kidney which were meaningless.
Later on I was tested for H.Pylori and it came back positive, so I was put on antibiotics which I finished about 3 months ago. At the beginning the antibiotics wrecked my guts :roflmao:but later it normalized, and here I am now. For now, no more SHARP pains like I had before, only very mild at best, and they're also less frequent.
Recently I also thought I had blood clots in my left leg, because one of my veins was like "lumpy" and it hurt like hell around it. Pancan, right? Wrong. I knew that I couldn't trust myself so I went to the doc who ordered an ultrasound for my left leg and he found enthesitis (inflammation of the area where tendons and ligaments attach to the bone), a condition strongly linked to 3 types of arthritis: ankylosing spondilitis, reactive arthritis or psoriatic arthitis.
It's very likely that, in the end, all my pains were just caused by arthritis. Who would've imagined, right? Instead of the almost impossible pancan. Or maybe it was the H.pylori, or both.
But long story short is (TL;DR) I had your same fears 1 year ago, with actual typical symptoms, and here I am 1 year later, still alive :). You see? Not all the stories in the internet are sinister. Could I wake up one day and suddenly get diagnosed with it? Well... could I wake up one day and have a meteor fall on my car? Or could I wake up one day and realize I won the euro lottery? Meh, these are questions I just don't really want to ask myself anymore.
I'm sure you also won't have it, it's a very easy statistical assumption to make.
One thong again; I saw that you made the statistical estimation of how likely it would be for a 21 year old or a 26 year old to get pancreatic cancer. Very low indeed. I am unfortunately 39 years old. How are my chances of getting it? I would love a reply.
I am unfortunately 39 years old. How are my chances of getting it? I would love a reply.
Why? What exactly would you do with that information?
And while we're talking stats, what are the statistical chances of getting the one disease you've fixated on for no reason?
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 15:12
Why? What exactly would you do with that information?
And while we're talking stats, what are the statistical chances of getting the one disease you've fixated on for no reason?
With all due respect, the question was raised to androidz not to you. Please just accept it; I have MY ways of seeking reasurance and any well meaning "you are just a hypocondriac, stop being such a hypocondriac" is of zero use to me. Because that is what I am hearing in my everyday life anyway. If my worrying annoys you you dont need to read it.
Short answer: the less likely it is, the more reasurring it is. Thats it.
One thong again; I saw that you made the statistical estimation of how likely it would be for a 21 year old or a 26 year old to get pancreatic cancer. Very low indeed. I am unfortunately 39 years old. How are my chances of getting it? I would love a reply.
I can only use UK data because it's the only one I have.
About 62 people from ages 30 to 40 get diagnosed with pancan in the UK a year, that's 62 out of 8,320,000 people, both male and females, which is around 1 out of 134200, in percentage that would be 0.0004%, which is, then again, absurdly low and pretty much negligible for the most part.
Let's see some comparisons to put this number in perspective... your odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 5,000 or 0.02% yearly, so you're 2050 times more likely to have a car accident than you get diagnosed with pcan at your age. And you don't see yourself having an accident, now do you? I certainly personally don't.
Around 1 in 23,000 people die from falling at home every year, so you're 410 times more likely to die from a fall at home than to even get diagnosed with pcan at your age.
1 in 93,000 people die yearly from uncontrolled fires somewhere, at home, in a forest, etc. so you have a 0.001% chance of dying in a fire every year, so if we use the average life expectancy and say you're going to live until you're 80, it is 102 times more likely that you die in a fire.
Numbers can sometimes be harsh, but a lot of times they can also be very calming if you look at them from the right perspective :roflmao:.
With all due respect, the question was raised to androidz not to you. Please just accept it; I have MY ways of seeking reasurance and any well meaning "you are just a hypocondriac, stop being such a hypocondriac" is of zero use to me". Because that is what I am hearing in my everyday life anyway. If my worrying annoys you you dont need to read it.
It's a valid question and one that perhaps should be explored in depth. What are you doing to address your "worries"?
Challenging your thoughts is what the forum is supposed to do. Tea and sympathy never really helps, it only prolongs and feed the suffering.
Trying to maintain...
Positive thoughts
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 15:27
It's a valid question and one that perhaps should be explored in depth. What are you doing to address your "worries"?
Challenging your thoughts is what the forum is supposed to do. Tea and sympathy never really helps, it only prolongs and feed the suffering.
Trying to maintain...
Positive thoughts
I am doing that in between all the horryfying fear; but it is only working temporarily. Two HA sufferers are not always the same; for some who only have minimal health concern and are hardly to label as "hypocondriacs" a small "snap out if it, you are just a hypocondriac" is enough. But not for those of us who are caught in a spiral of catstrophic thinking. Yes; positive thinking is important, but reasurance about ilnesses that is not coming from fearmongering "awareness campaigns" and tabloid media IS a part of treatment. One example; some 15 years ago I had a fair of penis cancer(dont laugh), but when I read that no one under 70 and only 5 people a year in the country gets it the fear disapppeared from my mind immediately. I was cured and no further treamtment for the anxiety was needed. You see?
It's a valid question and one that perhaps should be explored in depth. What are you doing to address your "worries"?
Challenging your thoughts is what the forum is supposed to do. Tea and sympathy never really helps, it only prolongs and feed the suffering.
Trying to maintain...
Positive thoughts
I find that, at least for me personally, statistics and numbers were a big part of realizing how dumb my irrational thoughts were. So they were very helpful. They always bombard us with death and cancer statistics, but they never use the right perspective so the average Joe is likely to end up thinking that it is a lot more common than it really is.
By the way, nice to see you around Fishmanpa! :yesyes: Doing well?
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 15:33
I find that, at least for me personally, statistics and numbers were a big part of realizing how dumb my irrational thoughts were. So they were very helpful. They always bombard us with death and cancer statistics, but they never use the right perspective so the average Joe is likely to end up thinking that it is a lot more common than it really is.
`
Again, spot on!
So how low are my chances, androidz? I am 39 y/o, my the ultrasound doc reasured me it was uncommon under 70 y/o. So what are my odds?
So how low are my chances, androidz? I am 39 y/o, my the ultrasound doc reasured me it was uncommon under 70 y/o. So what are my odds?
Oh, you missed my post haha. It's in the previous page :roflmao:.
I find that, at least for me personally, statistics and numbers were a big part of realizing how dumb my irrational thoughts were. So they were very helpful. They always bombard us with death and cancer statistics, but they never use the right perspective so the average Joe is likely to end up thinking that it is a lot more common than it really is.
By the way, nice to see you around Fishmanpa! :yesyes: Doing well?
Thanks andoidz... things are really )!@*&# up but I'm doing the best I can. One thing is certain, anyone here who would step into my shoes for an hour would realize just how fortunate they really are.
Concerning stats? I agree with you but at the same time, all the stats in the world cannot quell someone in an anxiety spiral. For some people, if there's a one in a million chance, it's that one chance they'll fixate on and nothing anyone can say or do will change that. Change must come from within and an inner desire to stop the madness.
Positive thoughts
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 15:40
Oh, you missed my post haha. It's in the previous page :roflmao:.
Wow, thanks. About 0,0004%. 62 in the entire UK is not much. Then it must be even less here in Norway with only 5 million people. Still, the nation Cancer Ascosciation used someone aged 31 as the only patient story for that particular cancer.
So, there is about 20 people in that age range anually to caught that type of cancer in Norway. Very small chances indeed.
And again; thank you very very much.
---------- Post added at 16:40 ---------- Previous post was at 16:38 ----------
Thanks andoidz... things are really )!@*&# up but I'm doing the best I can. One thing is certain, anyone here who would step into my shoes for an hour would realize just how fortunate they really are.
Concerning stats? I agree with you but at the same time, all the stats in the world cannot quell someone in an anxiety spiral. For some people, if there's a one in a million chance, it's that one chance they'll fixate on and nothing anyone can say or do will change that. Change must come from within and an inner desire to stop the madness.
Positive thoughts
Well, sometimes yes. In 2003 I thought that I was going to be the first Norwegian since 1815; for 188 years actually, to get rabies.
With all due respect, the question was raised to androidz not to you. Please just accept it; I have MY ways of seeking reasurance and any well meaning "you are just a hypocondriac, stop being such a hypocondriac" is of zero use to me. Because that is what I am hearing in my everyday life anyway. If my worrying annoys you you dont need to read it.
Short answer: the less likely it is, the more reasurring it is. Thats it.
Your worrying does not annoy me, but I'm not convinced your line of questioning and dwelling on statistics is helping you. If it read as "snap out of it" I apologise, but in reality it's a genuine question of what will you get out of knowing statistics. What if it's a 5% chance? 10%? 20%? 30%? They're just numbers.
Sorry if I was a bit abrupt, I won't try and help again as you obviously have a very clear idea if the sort of answers you want on here.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 15:46
No it is OK. But now it may not be the time to just say "you should stop worry becuase it is only hypocondria" but of course hwn/if I am treated of my fear it will be the time to prevent dev eloping more catastrophic thninking in the future.
But alternative explanation for my pain is always welcome. But a simple "you are just worrying" ends up going in circles.
No it is OK. But now it may not be the time to just say "you should stop worry becuase it is only hypocondria" but of course hwn/if I am treated of my fear it will be the time to prevent dev eloping more catastrophic thninking in the future.
But alternative explanation for my pain is always welcome. But a simple "you are just worrying" ends up going in circles.
So what are you doing to treat your anxiety?
Trying to maintain...
Positive thoughts
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 15:53
I can only use UK data because it's the only one I have.
About 62 people from ages 30 to 40 get diagnosed with pancan in the UK a year, that's 62 out of 8,320,000 people, both male and females, which is around 1 out of 134200, in percentage that would be 0.0004%, which is, then again, absurdly low and pretty much negligible for the most part.
Let's see some comparisons to put this number in perspective... your odds of dying in a car crash are 1 in 5,000 or 0.02% yearly, so you're 2050 times more likely to have a car accident than you get diagnosed with pcan at your age. And you don't see yourself having an accident, now do you? I certainly personally don't.
Around 1 in 23,000 people die from falling at home every year, so you're 410 times more likely to die from a fall at home than to even get diagnosed with pcan at your age.
1 in 93,000 people die yearly from uncontrolled fires somewhere, at home, in a forest, etc. so you have a 0.001% chance of dying in a fire every year, so if we use the average life expectancy and say you're going to live until you're 80, it is 102 times more likely that you die in a fire.
Numbers can sometimes be harsh, but a lot of times they can also be very calming if you look at them from the right perspective :roflmao:.
Wait, you calculated wrong. There are 65 million people in the UK, not 8 million, which makes the percentage as low as estimatedly 0%. Yes, the chances of being hit by lightening are higher. My grandma knew someone who died being hit by lightening. And I am worried about being outdoors during thunderstorms.
No it is OK. But now it may not be the time to just say "you should stop worry becuase it is only hypocondria" but of course hwn/if I am treated of my fear it will be the time to prevent dev eloping more catastrophic thninking in the future.
But alternative explanation for my pain is always welcome. But a simple "you are just worrying" ends up going in circles.
That wasn't really my point - my point is in seeking out information on exact odds what exactly are you trying to achieve? Whether it's 0.01%. 1%, 2%, 10%... doesn't make any difference really, as it's an irrational anxiety, and I make no apologies for keeping pointing that out. And if statistics make you feel better, the statistical improbability in having the very disease your anxiety is making you worry about is astronomical.
That was my point, not just saying "snap out of it", sorry if it was abrupt or clumsy. It is not a simple "you are just worrying", as there as no such thing as "just" anxiety - it's a real, and awful illness, and shouldn't be underestimated. I don't think continually talking about PC, rather than the underlying anxiety, is healthy, but you obviously disagree, and I'll leave it there.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 15:59
When I found that that no one my age got penis cancer my fear of that disappeared. What does that say about finding relief statistics?
MyNameIsTerry
24-10-16, 16:03
When I found that that no one my age got penis cancer my fear of that disappeared. What does that say about finding relief statistics?
Look at that rabies thread you are commenting on, some with HA can't accept it because they are losing out to the doubts created by their subconscious.
If you can use real facts to rationalise, you should, it's part of therapeutic technique.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 16:12
Look at that rabies thread you are commenting on, some with HA can't accept it because they are losing out to the doubts created by their subconscious.
If you can use real facts to rationalise, you should, it's part of therapeutic technique.
I no, but as I stated I myself was caught in a rabies fear back in 2003 so statistic alone could not help me although sometimes in glmipse of rationality it could; but I was justifying my fear to the fact that I(thought)I had been exposed to the lick of a dog in a south east Asian country where rabies does exist; althoug even there the prevalence among human victims are quite low. I thought back then that I had learned from the experience but maybe not.
Reagrading that thread, the poster can not accept the fact about the disease though; that it is completely impossible to be alive one month after the first symptoms and then be able to wrote about the fears on the Internet. Yes, a lack of rational thinking indeed.
Wait, you calculated wrong. There are 65 million people in the UK, not 8 million, which makes the percentage as low as estimatedly 0%. Yes, the chances of being hit by lightening are higher. My grandma knew someone who died being hit by lightening. And I am worried about being outdoors during thunderstorms.
For these calculations I used the demography statistics of people from 30 to 40 years old.
http://puu.sh/rU1iB/e567c676e0.png
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 17:25
For these calculations I used the demography statistics of people from 30 to 40 years old.
http://puu.sh/rU1iB/e567c676e0.png
Oh damned. Well, the numbers are calmingly low anyway. It is like the bad bad lottery ticket you would never want to win.
---------- Post added at 18:25 ---------- Previous post was at 18:24 ----------
Update: today something strange is observed: I feel better AFTER eating than when not eating; as the total oposite to how it has been for a while. Had some bad left side pain with recurring stitching over and over on the left side but after supper - GONE!:yesyes:
Statistics mean nothing with cancer.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 18:06
Statistics mean nothing with cancer.
No, not for those unfortunate enough to get it. But it is always good to know that the chances of getting various types are minimal isn`t it? Or should I worry about cancers that no one at my age have? As I said I once worried about a tye of cancer but found at very early that no one at my age was registered as a patient with that cancer? So why should I worry about being the first? Sorry, but I disagree with you.
Statistics mean nothing with cancer.
With all due respect, they do. Statistics are always meaningful, life is a constant struggle with probability. Ever since you wake up every day you already have a set of risks and probabilities that are more or less likely to become a reality.
Of course some unfortunate souls are going to get the short end of the stick but that is how numbers work in this situation, a vast majority are not going to get pancan at a young age and an extreme minority will, either because of genetic reasons or otherwise. This doesn't make it likely for a 39 yo person to get it by any stretch of the imagination.
Numbers are ALWAYS meaningful.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 18:28
With all due respect, they do. Statistics are always meaningful, life is a constant struggle with probability. Ever since you wake up every day you already have a set of risks and probabilities that are more or less likely to become a reality.
Of course some unfortunate souls are going to get the short end of the stick but that is how numbers work in this situation, a vast majority are not going to get pancan at a young age and an extreme minority will, either because of genetic reasons or otherwise. This doesn't make it likely for a 39 yo person to get it by any stretch of the imagination.
Numbers are ALWAYS meaningful.
Excactly! And because of that I should make futire plans based on a very unrealistic chance of winning the lottery. But I can plan for a holliday next month although there are always chances that something comes up that would force me to cancel it. Yes, statistic probabilities does most certainly play a factor in life. Which is also why a certain age group gets signed up for cancer screening whiøe a younger group does not because the risks are higher among the older group. You are completely right again.
So what are you doing to treat your anxiety?
You said you were on a waiting list but what are you doing in the mean time? There are online CBT workbooks, mindfulness techniques etc. that you could be working on. IMO, posting here in the state you're currently in is feeding the beast IMO. Distract yourself. Go for a walk, listen to music etc.
Trying to maintain...
Positive thoughts
Cancer doesn't respect lists of statistics unfortunately. It's all about learning to live with uncertainty which is so hard for HA sufferers
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 19:14
Cancer doesn't respect lists of statistics unfortunately. It's all about learning to live with uncertainty which is so hard for HA sufferers
So you actually MEAN that I should walk around fearing cancers that is is approximately zero chance that I will get?
I mean; the youngest person in the world they registered with Alzheimer was only 17 years old. So because of that; should all the teenage parents in the world be alarmed that THEIR teenager might have Alzheimer? According to what you say here they should. After all, the statistic did not save that 17 year old from having Alzheimer. It is the same logic at work here. The statistic did not save those 15 parents couple worldwide to have a baby woth progaria.
Totally agree Pulisa, after years of sending myself into major panics that impacted on my daily life, I finally accepted that no matter how much I worry, how much catastrophising I do or how much of a state I get myself into, I am not invincible. Those behaviours won't protect me from bad health. What will be will be, yes I can do things to increase my chances, improve my prospects but the bottom line is none of us are guaranteed good health, worrying day in day out is not going to change that, it's just a waste of the time we have.
Xx
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 19:19
Totally agree Pulisa, after years of sending myself into major panics that impacted on my daily life, I finally accepted that no matter how much I worry, how much catastrophising I do or how much of a state I get myself into, I am not invincible. Those behaviours won't protect me from bad health. What will be will be, yes I can do things to increase my chances, improve my prospects but the bottom line is none of us are guaranteed good health, worrying day in day out is not going to change that, it's just a waste of the time we have.
Xx
Yes, but when the statistics says that there is an overwhelmingly chance that certain diseases will not fall upon us we SHOULD confine in them. I mean; there is always a chance that we may be killed in a traffic accident tomorrow so should we asume that it might happen or stick to the most likely scenario that it wont happen.
Cancer doesn't respect lists of statistics unfortunately. It's all about learning to live with uncertainty which is so hard for HA sufferers
But... yes, yes it does. That's why we know that cancer mostly affects older people, or we know that smoking increases the risk of lung cancer, or drinking and smoking increases the risk of pancan.
If cancer didn't respect probability like you say then everybody would be as likely to get cancer regardless of age, life habits and genetics, which is simply not true.
I don't really understand what you're trying to get at with your posts. Yes, learning to cope with uncertainty is an important thing that people who suffer HA (and anxiety in general) need to do, but some things in life are more likely to happen than others, it is what it is. And putting things in perspective help some people because knowing that something bad happening is almost impossible makes them realize that it isn't worth worrying about that specific thing considering how unlikely it is for it to happen, which in turn helps them cope with uncertainty.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 19:25
Yes, it it not as likely to happen to everyone regardless of age. That is absolutely not true. That would be saying that winning the first price in the money lottery is as likely to happen to anyone.
There is a reason why those with a first degree relative with a certain cancer are prioritised for screening over others; so the health authorities are definitely disagreeing woth those two posters.
Yes, but when the statistics says that there is an overwhelmingly chance that certain diseases will not fall upon us we SHOULD confine in them. I mean; there is always a chance that we may be killed in a traffic accident tomorrow so should we asume that it might happen or stick to the most likely scenario that it wont happen.
I agree with that too and certainly statistics played a part in my rationale, to the extent my Doctor gave me a statistic of the chance of me having a heart attack using my age and background, yes it made me feel better, the risk was low however it wasn't impossible and sadly in the midst of anxiety statistics, chances and risk factors are generally forgotten. Accepting the possibility of illness helped me move forward and recover from anxiety.
Xx
So, based on the overwhelming evidence that chances are incredibly slim at best of you realizing your fear, do you really feel any more at ease? Look, I never even heard of NMDA Receptor Autoimmune Encephalitis and my wife is in the hospital with that one in a million illness. Life IS uncertain. That much is a 100% fact. You can do all the right things, eat right etc. and be gone tomorrow.
And you never answered my question....
You said you were on a waiting list but what are you doing in the mean time? There are online CBT workbooks, mindfulness techniques etc. that you could be working on. IMO, posting here in the state you're currently in is feeding the beast IMO. Distract yourself. Go for a walk, listen to music etc.
Trying to maintain...
Positive thoughts
I'm just trying to say that you can study lists of statistics till kingdom come but there is still a chance that you will get cancer one day. You can't protect yourself 100%-you can do all you can to lead a healthy life etc but nobody will be able to tell you that you won't ever get cancer because statistics say so categorically.
I'm just trying to say that you can study lists of statistics till kingdom come but there is still a chance that you will get cancer one day. You can't protect yourself 100%-you can do all you can to lead a healthy life etc but nobody will be able to tell you that you won't ever get cancer because statistics say so categorically.
Nobody disagrees with you on that.
But you should also agree with me that this chance can be more or less likely to happen depending on a lot of factors including age, genetics and others. It's a much more sane to worry about things that are likely that things that are borderline impossible.
And any doctor that you ask would tell you the same, that's why they're taught "if you hear hoofbeats think horses not zebras".
Pancan takes almost two decades to grow to a point where it becomes symptomatic, that's why young people getting it is almost unheard of. It is not impossible, as in 0%, but it is so unlikely that worrying about it would be not just a bad idea, but it would be insanity.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 19:46
I agree with that too and certainly statistics played a part in my rationale, to the extent my Doctor gave me a statistic of the chance of me having a heart attack using my age and background, yes it made me feel better, the risk was low however it wasn't impossible and sadly in the midst of anxiety statistics, chances and risk factors are generally forgotten. Accepting the possibility of illness helped me move forward and recover from anxiety.
Xx
A good point, but it seems that everyone(?)are accepting the possibility of being killed in a traffic accidents wothout worrying; I have never heard of people with traficcphobia if there is such a thing; maybe there is but I never heard of it. And people are killed in the traffic everyday and traffic accidents kills indiscriminately affecting people of all ages. People are very afraid of being killed in a terrorist act although the chances of traffic death is much higher. And people are more afraid of plane crashes than car crashes. There is a lot of psychology at work in what people fear.
---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------
So, based on the overwhelming evidence that chances are incredibly slim at best of you realizing your fear, do you really feel any more at ease? Look, I never even heard of NMDA Receptor Autoimmune Encephalitis and my wife is in the hospital with that one in a million illness. Life IS uncertain. That much is a 100% fact. You can do all the right things, eat right etc. and be gone tomorrow.
And you never answered my question....
You said you were on a waiting list but what are you doing in the mean time? There are online CBT workbooks, mindfulness techniques etc. that you could be working on. IMO, posting here in the state you're currently in is feeding the beast IMO. Distract yourself. Go for a walk, listen to music etc.
Trying to maintain...
Positive thoughts
I go for walks; I listen to music, but the fear keeps recuring. I am going ffor a holiday in December if I am still alive at that point.
---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:43 ----------
I'm just trying to say that you can study lists of statistics till kingdom come but there is still a chance that you will get cancer one day. You can't protect yourself 100%-you can do all you can to lead a healthy life etc but nobody will be able to tell you that you won't ever get cancer because statistics say so categorically.
Who said that I can not protect myself 100%? If I thought so I would not have the nightmaris fear I am struggling with these days.
And I am not completely buying the logic. A heavy smoker could twist things around by saying he knew someone who never smoked who got lung cancer at 40 and that he knew someone smoking 100 a day and lived to be 100 and use that as an argument that there is no need in quit smoking although statistics tells that he is in a high risk group. Statistics ARE important allthough there are always exception to the rule.
I go for walks; I listen to music, but the fear keeps recuring. I am going ffor a holiday in December if I am still alive at that point.
Have a nice vacation.
Trying to maintain...
Positive thoughts
A good point, but it seems that everyone(?)are accepting the possibility of being killed in a traffic accidents wothout worrying; I have never heard of people with traficcphobia if there is such a thing; maybe there is but I never heard of it. And people are killed in the traffic everyday and traffic accidents kills indiscriminately affecting people of all ages. People are very afraid of being killed in a terrorist act although the chances of traffic death is much higher. And people are more afraid of plane crashes than car crashes. There is a lot of psychology at work in what people fear.
Oh yeah, there are people with car phobia :D. There are as many phobias as your mind can conceive, like hylophobia (fear of trees) or omphalophobia (fear of the navel). People can be afraid of the strangest things but usually it is sinister stuff that claims the crown in popularity.
I think part of the reason why a lot of people with HA are not afraid of cars, for example, is the false sensation that they have control over it, like "If I don't get drunk, I'll be fine" or "If I drive carefully and I make sure I'm always paying attention, I'll be fine". This isn't necessarily true, because somebody who is under the influence can come out of nowhere and crash into you. The same could be said with cancers I guess, you can think you have control over it "If I don't smoke I won't get lung cancer" when this is not necessarily true.
It's all about risks and probability, again. Things are more or less likely to happen depending on a multitude of factors, and while we don't have direct control over whether we're going to have a car accident or get a cancer, we most definitely CAN minimize the risks of such things happening by, for example, not driving after drinking and not smoking respectively.
After we do our part, which is minimize the risks, the rest is up to probability. And here's where knowing how likely or unlikely something is to happen does help to put things in perspective and not worry over borderline impossible things.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 20:08
Oh yeah, there are people with car phobia :D. There are as many phobias as your mind can conceive, like hylophobia (fear of trees) or omphalophobia (fear of the navel). People can be afraid of the strangest things but usually it is sinister stuff that claims the crown in popularity.
I think part of the reason why a lot of people with HA are not afraid of cars, for example, is the false sensation that they have control over it, like "If I don't get drunk, I'll be fine" or "If I drive carefully and I make sure I'm always paying attention, I'll be fine"..
I think someone with HA whose afraid of getting epilespsy would be afraid of driving a car.
Super_Freaked
24-10-16, 21:17
stangely most people feel better after a few weeks of accepting their cancer fate than us paranoid HA people feel about fear of getting cancer.
As long as your alive and kicking and nobody says you are going to dye of cancer (doctors) why not try to enjoy the healthy part of your life, you don't want to be laying in a hostpial bed 30 years from now regretting all the healthy times you pretend to have cancer.
paranoid-viking
24-10-16, 21:57
stangely most people feel better after a few weeks of accepting their cancer fate than us paranoid HA people feel about fear of getting cancer.
As long as your alive and kicking and nobody says you are going to dye of cancer (doctors) why not try to enjoy the healthy part of your life, you don't want to be laying in a hostpial bed 30 years from now regretting all the healthy times you pretend to have cancer.
Bing Crosby was perfectly healthy to the day he suddenly collapsed on a golf course due to cardiac arrest. A better way of dying than suffer months and years of misery of course although more of a shock to families.
I really want to be old but when I die it will be better to personally and selfishly too do it the Bing Crosby way than a long a painful cancer death.
Not every cancer diagnosis leads to death, I personally know four people who have overcome and recovered from cancer, only one who didn't make it and he was 89. Cancer doesn't necessarily mean the end, neither does a heart attack, both can be treated, both you can recover from.
MyNameIsTerry
24-10-16, 23:06
Statistics are important - when you use them properly. You look at them, acknowledge you are very low risk and you don't keep searching. If you keep searching, anxiety is driving you.
Disease doesn't respect statistics, it's not a conscious being. There can be outliers and statistics only reflect what we know. If there is no physical reason why a disease can't do X outside of an age group, you are still in a grey area.
And those life expectancy figures are out of date anyway, which is why they state ask your cancer team who have better data. They don't even have good data in some forms e.g. oral cancers.
To someone without HA, that grey area is completely accepted and no one cares. That's because we don't have our anxiety focusing on that element when it comes to our Cognitive Distortions.
HA people worry about things affecting health. You don't seem to worry about many other things that kill you outside of something medical. GAD sufferers tend to, it doesn't have to be a specific phobia.
Super_Freaked
26-10-16, 00:20
Bing Crosby was perfectly healthy to the day he suddenly collapsed on a golf course due to cardiac arrest..
Well the positive thing bout this is Bing died instantly and more than likely nobody would have caught or stopped this, it was just fate. Would yo urather just have a heart attack while golfing or would your rather die of a heart attack after years of worry about one ?
MyNameIsTerry
26-10-16, 00:36
Well the positive thing bout this is Bing died instantly and more than likely nobody would have caught or stopped this, it was just fate. Would yo urather just have a heart attack while golfing or would your rather die of a heart attack after years of worry about one ?
I'm going aged 117 whilst flying my own plane with a young model sitting in lap! :yesyes:
I'm going aged 117 whilst flying my own plane with a young model sitting in lap! :yesyes:
Maybe in a few decades you can put your consciousness into a bionic body and live forever... or until one day your private plane crashes with a young model sitting on your lap :roflmao:.
paranoid-viking
26-10-16, 12:10
Well the positive thing bout this is Bing died instantly and more than likely nobody would have caught or stopped this, it was just fate. Would yo urather just have a heart attack while golfing or would your rather die of a heart attack after years of worry about one ?
I want to grow old but being healthy every day until the end. Meaning that living happy and then get a heart attack and pass away. Although thinking like this is also selfish in a way because it is always a big shock to the family and others that their beloved one they saw in perfect shape yesterday is suddenly dead. There lies a dilemma. I am often afraid my parents suddenly will get a heart attack. I mean; when someone suffers a slow and disabling death; the family are prepared so the grief is easier to cope with than when they get the shock news of a cardiac arrest after having made big plans etc.....human psychology.
But I certainly would not want to spend the last years of my life completely disabled in a nursery home or hospital being nursed and patronised. That is no life.
I want to grow old but being healthy every day until the end. Meaning that living happy and then get a heart attack and pass away. Although thinking like this is also selfish in a way because it is always a big shock to the family and others that their beloved one they saw in perfect shape yesterday is suddenly dead. There lies a dilemma. I am often afraid my parents suddenly will get a heart attack. I mean; when someone suffers a slow and disabling death; the family are prepared so the grief is easier to cope with than when they get the shock news of a cardiac arrest after having made big plans etc.....human psychology.
But I certainly would not want to spend the last years of my life completely disabled in a nursery home or hospital being nursed and patronised. That is no life.
I don't think it's a selfish way of thinking at all. One of my elderly relatives says they'd rather "Just go". I do think it would be devastating for somebody to just drop dead at a young age as that is unexpected, but for somebody in their 80's to go that way it's not necessarily a rarity. Obviously any death is devastating but I do feel like the older the relative, the easier it would be to deal with.
I have worried about having a heart attack or having cancer for 25 years and thank God I still have had neither. I did waste a lot of time worrying though. I still do. I now tell myself when I start to worry, 'Well I don't have it today. So enjoy today knowing that I am healthy enough to do everything I want to do.' It helps.
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