View Full Version : Split with partner, completely devestated
SurfingWaves
21-10-16, 15:31
Hi it has been nearly a year since I was last here, I got on medication for anxiety which was helping a lot but last night me and my girlfriend had another argument and this time she took the baby and went to stay at her mums.
This morning she told me that we are over. I pleaded with her to give it another go but she has made her mind up about it.
I'm in absolute pieces, crying my eyes out as I'm writing this I dont see any real future for myself now without her. She said I will still be able to see the baby but I am worried about so many things at once, all concerning the future. I spent all last night vomiting and shaking, my heart beating out of my chest.. I have social anxiety and think I was lucky to have a girlfriend in the first place but I dont see anything good about the future.
I will cut it short here because I can go on for ever, just hoping some of you can offer me a bit of advise I suppose. it does help to vent all this somewhere.
I'm really sorry to hear this I can understand you must be so upset especially when there's a child invovled
I have no words of wisdom to offer unfortunatley other than you can get through this and I'm sure it will get better whether you and your gf work it out or not.
Best wishes
SurfingWaves
21-10-16, 16:07
Thanks for the kind words Vicky, I have based my whole life around my gf and baby and now they are gone I dont know what to do with myself. In between the panic and crying I am having positive thoughts of getting a nice flat, learning to drive and getting a higher paid job but then the reality of what has happened hits me and I feel sick to my stomach. I honestly thought we would grow old together as a family and now I am going to be alone which I am really not used to after 12 years together. I hate to think how bad anxiety and depression are going to hit me in the coming weeks/months . I think I will be around a lot more on these forums. maybe I will be able to help others too if I can get my strength back to even function normally.
So sorry to hear this Surf.
All I can say is I know exactly how you feel.
It happened to me nearly 5 months ago. One day my wife left a note saying it was over. We have 2 daughters together. 5 and 1.
No explanation, no chance at salvaging it, no remorse. Absolutely brutal!
If you want to talk any time, drop me a line.
I have loads of advice for you, but I am against a deadline at work, and need to make sure I leave on a positive note before the weekend.
Stay strong.
---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------
These Are The Rules I did not obey these, and I wish I had.
- Give her space. Limit contact.
If you turn into a mess, and she sees you are not coping, it will validate the reason she left you. You need to show strength in the face of adversity.
- Just because it feels like its over now, doesnt mean it is...
The future is full of uncertainty. Do not think too far ahead...
- Stay f**king strong!!
You HAVE to be strong. There is no other option.
If you need help with the anxiety, go to the doctors and get some propanalol.
See point 1 and repeat!
My separation inspired me to do a channel on Youtube helping men through the experience, but I also talk about anxiety on it.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9lYj24_xGwZwzJKknmE8Tg
SurfingWaves
21-10-16, 17:14
Thanks SLA for your reply. the 3 points you have written are very helpful, I am glad I read this early on because I have been phoning her and she hasn't been answering me so now reading that I will keep my distance because I dont want to come across as weak and crazy to her even though I am really struggling to deal with it. I have a stock of Propranalol and took one 40mg when I woke up sweating and heart racing. I think it is also helping with the sickness too.
I'm sorry to hear about your split and the cold way in which she left you a note, I too feel that my partner was quite cold and she would not consider discussing what we could do to save our relationship. Yes we did argue a lot but I thought that was normal for couples. She is coming round tommorow to let me see the baby and I have no idea what I am going to say to her, although I wont be doing any more pleading to stay together, she really isnt interested at all.
So sorry to hear this Surf.
All I can say is I know exactly how you feel.
It happened to me nearly 5 months ago. One day my wife left a note saying it was over. We have 2 daughters together. 5 and 1.
No explanation, no chance at salvaging it, no remorse. Absolutely brutal!
What a dreadful experience. I will never understand how anybody can be so cruel.
---------- Post added at 17:56 ---------- Previous post was at 17:53 ----------
SurfingWaves, I'm like that, I haven't separated from my boyfriend but when we argue I call him countless times and text with absolutely no response. I believe this has made him walk all over me and I have been told by many people to leave him (easier said than done) due to this.
I really hope you overcome this, will you get to have your baby overnight at all? Perhaps that will help you deal with things as you will be occupied.
SurfingWaves
21-10-16, 20:14
thanks keekee for the kind words, I have to find my own flat ASAP so I will be trying to find one with 2 bedrooms so she can stay when she is maybe 2 or 3. There is so much to consider that I hadnt even thought about. I need to get the deposit back on my half of the current tenancy so I can use it for the next place. still in disbelief about it all.
Are you not able to stay with anyone you know?
How old are you by the way?
Ahhhh surfingwaves I'm really sorry to hear about this. I'm married now and been with my hubby for 13yrs but we have had countless arguments and fights and he's threatened to leave so many times. As we have gotten older we don't argue so much but we were bloody horrible to each other over the years.
SLA, you make good points. I'm the one who repeatedly calls and pleads and KeeKee it probably has made him walk all over you cos I remember one time about 5yrs ago me and my hubby had a massive fall out and instead of pleading with him I told him where to go, (made him sleep in the car) and I went to bed. The next day when we made up, he told me he was actually worried cos usually I would have a think about it and text/call him to say sorry but this time I didn't and he knew I meant business. Truth was I was just drunk and fell asleep but I was quite annoyed at the fact he thought that
MyNameIsTerry
22-10-16, 06:15
Great advice from SLA there! :yesyes:
It's very early days and there is a lot of raw emotion going on here on both sides. It makes a lot of sense to try to cool things down so that you both view each other as reasonable. That way things will be more amicable. You need that no matter what happens so you are on good terms, if possible, for the future in looking after your child.
So, if she needs space, it's probably best she gets it. The alternative is she feels smothered and kicks back at you.
I hope it works out for you. But even if it doesn't, you still have a future, just a different one. No matter what happens you are still a dad and I'm sure you will put your efforts into that.
SLA - it's awful that happened to you. You come across as caring, positive and very reasonable bloke so it's hard to understand how anyone can do that to you. It must have been a massive blow with the kids too. You sound like you have worked through the bad times though and are putting your life back together. No matter what, you;ve still got your children.
SurfingWaves
22-10-16, 18:52
Hi everyone,
Today my ex came round to collect some things and she brought our daughter so I could have a few hours with her. I decided to accept the split completely and it is the best thing I could have done as we are going to remain good friends and still go on days out, xmas as a family and being there for each other if we want to talk.
The problem was that we could not live under the same roof any longer , we no longer had any romance and frequently arguing about the smallest things .it wasnt a nice atmosphere for a young baba to be growing up in. now when she sees mum and dad together we are happier.
SLA's advise is spot on and if I hadn't heard that I would still be banging my head against a brick wall so to speak. I accepted what had happened and kept a lid on my anxiety while being calm and assertive, but also warm and friendly like good friends should be.
I think it is the best possible outcome because she had already made her mind up and no amount of pleading was going to change things. I am going to concentrate my energy on improving my life starting with getting a nice place for my child to come and stay.
Thanks everyone for caring and after a year away it has reminded me just what a supportive bunch of people are on this forum with great, level headed advice too.
MyNameIsTerry
23-10-16, 06:37
That's sounds good and it must put your mind at rest a bit about all the things you are feeling and need to sort out too.
The way you are both dealing with it is very reasonable and that is great as it will mean you can keep this friendly for you all, the child more than anything. In the future there could be changes like her getting a new partner and being on good terms will only help in that difficult situation.
It's still early days, things may change. But you are easily creating a good solid foundation for future dealings with each other, and not what some splits cause for their kids, and I hope it continues for you.
It's nice to hear some positivity out of this. I'm sure it's still very raw for you but knowing things can progress from here and you are seeing your baby will be a great comfort in combatting any of those upsetting thoughts.
SurfingWaves
24-10-16, 14:29
She is starting to play mind games already. She said my Mum can't see the baby until I have moved out of this flat and found somewhere, she hasn't given a good reason for it either. I am scared of rocking the boat too much as I think she could get very nasty very quickly. Feeling stuck in the middle now and dreading to give my Mum this bad news, she will be heartbroken and may even call my Ex and make things worse..
Still trying to stay strong through all of this but it is the hardest thing I have faced in my life. Makes my anxiety etc seem trivial compared.
How old are both if you don't mind me asking? Saying your Mum can't see the baby unless you find somewhere other than the flat is very childish.
Are you allowed to see the baby by yourself at all? Or does she need to be there with you both?
SurfingWaves
24-10-16, 21:14
I am 34 and she is 36, she is acting very childish I agree. This is part of her personality she talks like a child half of the time too. I havent yet seen my daughter on her own, only with her being there. I do not know why she is ruining things for my Mum one minute and wanting to be good friends with me the next,
I told my mum and she was upset but she isnt going to react which is a HUGE relief. My ex is really calling all the shots here
Its so difficult at the moment, I just want to lie in bed on myphone in the dark all day, think depression may be setting in. Hardly eating because I feel sick all the time, popping beta blockers to slow my pounding heart and stop the shakes. Its crap it really is.
I'm proud of you for handling this as well as you have done. It really warms my heart.
As Terry said, it's still early days. You are showing great strength, and focussing on being the best you can be is what YOU need right now.
If you show people how you are coping, and moving on they will respect that.
Who knows, she might see this response from you and feel she made a mistake. Then you can both work out whether there is still something to work on, or whether you are both happy as you are.
Having been through this, I realise all the mistakes I made early on. But ultimately, we weren't meant to be together, and it panned out well in the end.
----
Mind games are the worst. When people play mind games they want you to react in a certain way..... weakly.
Why?
They are playing games to try and elevate their position, and to boost their own self-esteem.
So how do we react?
We react calmly. We put forward our side of things, our views on matters, and what we want.
This is where it can get tough.
Women in these situations have all the leverage. If you don't like something? Fine, you don't get to see the kid. Can I do this? No? Fine, you don't get to see the kid.
It's like playing poker versus somebody who always has a Royal Flush. You either fold to every hand, or you pick up your chips and leave.
Ultimately, YOUR SANITY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.
Do not, FOR A SECOND compromise your own sanity for the demands of your Ex. She will walk all over you until she's finished with you, then when you're a beaten wreck, you'll be out in the cold.
The Obstacle is the Way is a great book, and I highly recommend it. it has helped me cope immensely. I got the audio version and listen to it while running. IT IS THERAPY.
Two things I have learnt. (And will do videos on one day!)
- Make acceptance your default reaction:
When you develop a mindset where you firstly accept everything that happens, life becomes a lot easier. Not because you lay back and surrender, but because you begin to truly identify the things in your life you can change. And everything else just becomes a speed bump in the road.
- Find happiness in everything.
:ohmy: Really? On an anxiety forum?
YES! FIND HAPPINESS IN EVERYTHING.
Is it possible? Probably not. There are certain things that happen to us that are just beyond awful.
But... in your initial post you said you'd no idea how you'd get through this, and you ARE ALREADY HANDLING IT LIKE A PRO.
There is no good or bad, but thinking makes it so.
This might be the MAKING of you. In fact, I have NO DOUBT that it will be.
When you try and find happiness in everything, guess what?
YOU FIND A LOT MORE HAPPINESS!!!
When you look for the worst in everything, you find the worst!!
So do those two things!!
- Make acceptance your default reaction:
- Find happiness in everything.
There are still loads of road bumps to get through, but you are already doing so well.
Stay strong. Fight your corner. And make BIG plans for yourself.
Could she perhaps have post natal depression? Has she always been this way?
It's still very early days, things will get better. My partner left me years ago when our daughter was 8 months old (we have since reconciled although our relationship is troubled). I had just got a house (albeit rented, not my own) and spent my first ever Christmas night as a parent alone in my home, it was only the 2nd night I'd ever slept in that house. Didn't even know where the nearest bus stop was really. My daughter slept at his as she'd spent the day with me and my family. It was very hard, but I survived and you will too.
I'm sure people will disagree with me but I genuinely think taking a couple of days out to feel sorry for yourself, mope, sleep and lounge about will do you no harm. Just make sure it's only a couple of days then get up and try to move forward.
Completely agree with KeeKee.
You will have entire days where you need to sleep, or just kinda... withdraw.
That is cool. Do what you have to do. But once you get that energy back, it needs to be all hands on deck!!
SurfingWaves
24-10-16, 22:26
I think it is unfair on my poor daughter, I had to ask my ex via text if I could say goodnight to her. When I spoke to her (shes only 18months but quite advanced imo) she shouted daddy daddy and my heart nearly melted, she gives kisses over the phone too (mmmwaah!) but she cant see me and poke at my eyes like she does, and I go owww and she laughs. sorry I am all over the place.
Looking at myself in the mirror I am pale as f**k, its making me ill . I am not typically a strong person at all but I even suprised myself that I can suspend my emotions and be 100% present with my baby.
When I am back on my own though I am in a constant hell of panic and doubts that my mind throws up at me. I tend to catastrophise (if that is the word) and so I am thinking one false move and I wont see my baby which is unlikely but it doesnt stop the thoughts hitting me.
what I noticed quickly is that I dont much care for a relationship with my ex any more, all my focus is on my daughter. How could people use children as weapons it is sick.
my posts might come across as disjointed im just all over the show at the moment.
MyNameIsTerry
24-10-16, 22:41
Does she not get on with your mum? Or does she fear your mum might tell her things she doesn't want to hear?
Why can't she arrange not to be there when your mum is?
If the child is old enough to recognise & speak, she could get upset if she can't see her gran and that is very unfair!
Great advice, SLA!
Focus on you. Get plenty of rest. Make sure you eat and drink well.
Then focus on the time with your daughter.
I felt the same this soon into it. I took power naps all the time.
Trust me, you are doing so well at the moment.
The thing I always think about in times of stress is...
"Are my daughters ok...?"
If you think they are then just try and relax.... because that is all that matters.
I've been stressed today. Now I think... are my daughters ok? Yes. Theyll be in bed by now, and are sleeping deeply.
and breathe....
The future could be a billion different things. Its easier to let it pan out than to try and predict it.
SurfingWaves
24-10-16, 23:35
Hey Terry,
She DID get on with my Mum, extremely well in fact. They would go to the baby group together every week and she often would talk to my Mum about arguments with her own mother (she does not get on with her own mum very much, they have crossed words almost every time they are together).
The split was caused mainly by how I reacted to a nasty, unfounded comment that her mother made about me. My mum said to my ex, 'you need to tell your mother to stop sticking her oar in', which IMO is bloody good advise because she had no right to say what she said to me.
So my ex wants to see my mum as an enemy now even after having a close friendship with her for over 10yrs.
It is a LOT more complicated than this and so much happened that night in the space of an hour.
what happens is when I put my foot down and defend myself or stand strong with my opinion, I am cut down immediately like I am stepping out of line. They won't take anything from me. They label me as over-reactive or something like that.
SLA your advice is excellent and when I read your words they make sense to me. I am going to say to myself from now on,
'if my daughter is safe and happy then I can be at peace' them words really do seem to work for me. all the advice you have given me has been a god-send actually. I live for my daughter and her health & happiness now.
You are all fantastic, thanks for caring everyone I appreciate it more than you know.:bighug1:
MyNameIsTerry
25-10-16, 00:27
Hi SW,
So, she might be feeling like she has let your mum down with them being close and maybe she doesn't want to look her in the face and feel disappointment?
If you can reassure her that your mum intends to stay out of it, for the benefit of the child, will she change her mind and get over her own insecurity? That's if that's why she is doing this.
She may also feel ganged up on and have little back up from her own mum? Again, reassurance can maybe help her to see this isn't the case. The more she plays it this way, the more she may create that.
The child is priority and this is about the mother prioritising herself above that.
Another possibility is it is a way too get you out quicker, if you think she may be devious.
Hi
Because of the big falling out , I think your ex perceives your mother as a threat.
I agree with Terry's advice. For the immediate future, just consider meetings with you alone with your daughter.
When the situation eventually calms (may take some time!), then some bridge building is required for reuniting with your Mum.
I wish you well:)
SurfingWaves
25-10-16, 09:25
Hey Terry and Lucinda,
all of the above quite honestly. And I am almost certain she is using this as a tool to get me out quicker. So for now it will be me seeing the baby, luckily my Mum understands the game she is playing and will be patient which I told her I am really thankful for.
Today I take steps to become a stronger person. I'm going for a run by the beach and when I come back an hour's meditation before I get stuck in to flat hunting. The only thing is, I feel exhausted and only got up an hour ago! The last 3 nights I have been drinking big bottles of beer on an empty stomach and I'm feeling crappy (dont usually drink alcohol) so that has to stop.
I will try not to take propranalol today and face the adrenaline rushes if I get panicky.
Great!
Remember to eat - even if its something simple like toast/baked potato.:)
SurfingWaves
25-10-16, 16:21
Hi all,
I'm doing OK so far today. I am challenging myself to accept the anxiety attacks completely and I am pleased to say that accepting the anxiety and letting it be there is WORKING for me.
Before, I would put a lot of wasted energy in to trying to get away from my anxiety and would feel much worse for it.
I basically said to myself "I might as well accept every feeling I have now because I have spent years running from my anxiety and it never got me anywhere."
I am still getting the mad rush of panic coming up from my stomach to my chest to my head but I feel it fully now and just notice it. The minute I am not fighting and just observing it, it is LITERALLY CUT IN HALF!
Feels like a small victory for me and I can start to grow from here. I think if I spent more years fearing and struggling with it I would not get anywhere, so yeah BRING IT ON!:yahoo:
SurfingWaves
25-10-16, 23:32
Now I am really struggling again.
I feel stupid to have been so optimistic in the last post, I hadnt eaten all day then got a big meal from the chippy and after eating that I have had non stop hot flashes and intense anxiety. I cant eat without feeling like I want to throw up either, my appetite has been non existent since this all started. I wish it would all end
Fish & chips are greasy & indigestible - no good for stress! Something light, cereal or a simple sandwich would have been preferable.
Nevermind, try something different today. Bananas are good - quick, easy, nourishing.
MyNameIsTerry
26-10-16, 07:58
Yeah, got to agree with Lucinda. I often find potato difficult when I'm not doing well. It can give me some strange heads which are triggering for me.
You are going to be up & down. That's just anxiety. But you had an up point, that's worth something. It's worse when it's constantly down. So, chalk it up as a rough day, move on.
Yeh, I agree with Lucinda and Terry.
My appetite went for a week or so, and I only really ate dinner, and missed breakfast and lunch.
A banana and a strawberry milkshake is my go to thing if I need a reliable source of energy.
And I want you to do this...
Start making a log of all of the positive progress somewhere, whether it is your phone, or a journal.
The post where you observed your anxiety and cut it in half is a HUGE leap forward.
You need to reflect on all of the positive progress regularly.
There may be setbacks every day to start with, and re-reading all of your positive developments will help lift you out of the rut.
I did this by the way, and it really helped me avoid going into depression early on. Don't dwell on the negatives!
SurfingWaves
26-10-16, 09:41
Right, I am stopping junk food from today. I have been meaning to eat healthy for ages so now I will do it, I have cut caffeine out as well as it also brings on more panic and stress recently.
was doing quite ok til I ate that big meal, it just proved to me how important good food is.
Tried to play a game on my computer last night and felt horrible, I dont think Battlefield is helping when I am lying prone in a bush hoping not to be shot haha. Maybe I should stick to minesweeper for now :)
SLA, I will start a diary of the positive things I have done, was thinking about that yesterday after seeing your mission statement video on youtube, great channel by the way
I am seeing my daughter today before my night shift and really looking forward to it She's the light of my life she really is.
MyNameIsTerry
26-10-16, 10:39
I'm having one of my agitation blips so I'm caving the heads of zombies in!
Big meals would make me feel bad a lot too. It's always worse the more sensitised you are.
Healthy meals are definitely a good thing. What might be worth looking at is smaller meals too. Even more of them but smaller portions. See what works for you but try to avoid getting bloated up.
SurfingWaves
26-10-16, 11:58
One thing that is a bit worrying for me is bad nausea every morning I wake up. Again, its since we split up that I am feeling really sick when I get up. I am guessing that its part of my anxiety, I didnt think my stomach could be so affected by it all like this.
maybe eating smaller meals will help with it I will see how it goes.
MyNameIsTerry
26-10-16, 12:22
Yes, nausea is mega common with anxiety. I had it loads when going into places.
It might help to drink something when you wake? It can often help to get us moving if we get on with things, have a drink & some breakfast. The body is going to be at a weak point when we wake so hunger can morph into nausea when you are sensitised.
SurfingWaves
26-10-16, 19:22
She arrived at the flat earlier without the baby and when I asked where she was she said 'sorry she is sleeping, I know you must be upset'
I said its ok I understand (when i was absolutely heart broken) and she started telling me that it is hell at her mums , her mum is trying to micro manage every aspect of her life and they are having rows 24/7.
I said 'please can I see her on friday when you come' and she said 'lets see if you have got the ball rolling getting a flat because I need to move back in here' I said I already have the ball rolling I have 2 viewings for tommorow.
I kept calm with her the whole time she was here but I am so devestated that she is using access to my baby as a way of hurrying me up. She is pushing me to get any bedsit now and I am agreeing to it even though she is clearly being manipulative.
If I don't see her on friday I dont know what I am going to do I am f**king destroyed with this how much more am I meant to take?
I said just come back and I will stay out of your way until I move out, but she isn't up for that.
She is coming on friday because I am going to work friday night then staying at my mums saturday, back to work sunday nighy and staying at my mums monday night so she is coming back to stay 4 nights without me there. then I come back to the flat tuesday day. what a messed up situation.
All the while she wants to be friends and get along. basically spent the whole time listening to her problems with her mum.
Am I mad to be this accepting? my head officially wrecked. Also my shift got cancelled so I am only working friday and sunday. viewing a bedsit tommorow.
sorry for rambling
TLDR : more mind games I cant take much more
Sorry to hear this.
It really isn't right that she said that, but in the grand scheme of things, it's a small thing. You should probably call her up on these small things. I'm not a relationship expert.. (no s**t!) but it seems like it would be easier to point out her manipulative manner now, while the stakes are lower, than when she uses it later on in a really difficult situation.
But it is impossible to rationalise that in the heat of the moment.
I got a lot of the manipulative bullshit.
While I was due to baby-sit my two girls one evening, she was getting ready to go out, and tarting herself up.
We got into a horrible arguement, I forget about what, and she called me depressed and stupid, and said that I was making her feel uneasy just by being there.
Then there was the time she insisted I had to stay with the girls while she helped out "a friend" who needed picking up from the train station. I'd heard enough of the phone conversation to know it was BS, and started to walk off...
She said... "If you go now, then the girls will know how much of a terrible father you are."
These are the two girls that DIDNT WANT ME TO LEAVE tonight when I dropped them off with her.
Its hard. It will probably get harder.
I don't want to say that, but I think you need to know it. You need to prepare yourself mentally for it.
Part of me has already accepted that there will be long stretches of time when I don't see them. It is hard swallowing that. Even just 4 days last week. My youngest, who is one and a half, was noticeably heavier and more aware.
I used to notice it on a day to day basis. 4 days is just so long in a 1 year olds development.
Have you researched your legal rights?
I can recommend the site: http://www.separateddads.co.uk/
I am a moderator on their forums, but have no involvement other than that.
MyNameIsTerry
27-10-16, 06:51
Sorry to hear things have gone like this. You are being very reasonable about everything but she needs to understand it's about give & take. She can't expect you to pack a bag and just go and she can't use your child as a bargaining chip to get what she wants.
It's irrelevant how things are with her mum, she has chose that route and will have to live with it until you have moved or she decides she can share with you until then. She's lucky anyway, you could have not moved if things had been more strained.
It's important for your child too! I never understand how parents play these kinds of games with their kids.
Is the flat in her name? Why do you need to move out and not her?
She left.
You will need to find another home that will accommodate your child staying over (in the future)
So think carefully before giving up YOUR home.
Think about your needs and that if your child. You are an equal parent.
Eventually, you could go to court to get proper access to the child. Not easy. But the option is there.
Actually, you have a point there Dally.
If she walked out, she obviously has somewhere to live, so the normal code of practice is that the marital home would go on the market. You can even live under the same roof while a divorce/separation is going through as long as you have separate sleeping quarters and do absolutely nothing for each other.
However, I have to say that is not the ideal situation to be in as I have lived that myself and the atmosphere and strain is beyond unbearable.
But, once you move out, you have left the door open for her to take a grip on the property. Seek professional advice from a solicitor.
I would also advise, no matter how difficult and angry you get, to try and keep the peace. Do what ever once you are away to get the anger out by running, some sport or exercise, but don't give any ammunition that may come back on you.
It is far more annoying to someone by staying cool and not taking the bait.
---------- Post added at 12:10 ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 ----------
Sorry, just realised you are renting.
There for, you both need to find a new abode.
In your present state, a tenancy would be drawn up in both your names, so she could not just be there is a solo tenant. The landlord would have to be informed and the contract changed.
My thinking that if she gets in and you leave, she will say she has been deserted and claim benefits as a single parent.
Therefore, you could call her bluff and state the legalities of the abode and calmly mention that both parties will have to seek new living quarters.
This will give her something to think about. Much harder to find digs with a baby than stay where you already are and she could end up with something inadequate and then the better option would be staying with a parent.
As everyone else has said , giving her space is the right thing to do . Get yourself sorted out (flat , job, etc) and make her see what's she's missing. If it's for you it won't go past you .
It seems bad now but a year down the line you could end up thinking it was for the best. If you want to chat give me a message x
SurfingWaves
30-10-16, 14:41
cheers for the replies, she came round yesterday (with my daughter, hurray) and I showed her I am serious about getting out. found a flat already and I am looking forward to moving. I was honest about what keeping me from seeing my daughter is doing to me, and it that she cant use her as a bargaining chip. So, got a few things aired from my side and we are communicating better now. Going out for the afternoon with them both on Tuesday, bite to eat and nice walk. Things are getting more rational now, She can see I dont want to keep a relationship going with her, being good friends and living apart has been fine with me since like day 2 of our split.
A lot of my anxiety and fear was from not knowing if she had flipped her lid and would run away with the baby not letting me see her again, and the less I slept and ate the worse my fears became. She certainly didnt help things by restricting access to see baby for nearly 2 weeks but apparently she 'read it on google that is what a lot of mums do'
Will take what I can get for now and hopefully we remain good friends, if only for our daughters sake.
MyNameIsTerry
01-11-16, 05:25
Where on earth did she read that? Some man hating forum? It sounds very Jeremy Kyle show. :doh:
I'm glad this has worked out for you. She could have caused problems, like SLA says - she holds the cards. Hopefully this means you are back to the reasonable side she was displaying initially.
Yes, the same thing happened to my son. His OH refused access to his child for three weeks. "Till lawyers sorted access"
£350 per letter x 3 weeks and it was eventually my son agreeing to his OHs schedule that allowed access to continue!
He wanted one weekday and every full alternate weekend.
He was 'allowed' one weekday and from 3pm-7pm fri. Eventually overnight fri.
The law states both parents have EQUAL parental rights...but the parent the child ' lives with has all the say..unless you take them to court and let a judge decide.
My sons lawyer told him it would cost at least £10,000.
The unfairness is beyond my comprehension.
SurfingWaves
01-11-16, 09:39
My guess is that she has been reading about the 'no contact' rule where a relationship breaks up the rule says dont make any contact at all for at least 30 days.
Which is all fine if it is just the two of us going our separate ways but I think she was trying to include my daughter in that rule too.
I am getting on the train to see them both in an hour and we are having a day together, I just hope she isnt in one of her stressed out moods where she refuses to talk rationally about important stuff, I am dreading asking her about when my Mum can see the baby because that seems to set her off.
Feeling bad on my Mum because she is really upset about not seeing the baby and my ex has said she cant see her until things are 'settled' . Sick of treading on egg shells when such important stuff is still not resolved. I keep telling my Mum please be patient you will see her soon, but I can only tell her that for so long!
SurfingWaves
01-11-16, 23:14
Just a quick update, we had a nice day and are back on good terms. We decided that we will obviously be seeing each other less but when we do, we will have more respect for each other and no arguing any more. It's the best outcome for our daughter that we can hope for. We will do xmas together and will still go on the holiday we have booked for next summer.
It was really nice to see the baby today, I bought her some toys, new pyjamas and some new dummies (she is tearing thru them with her teeth!) We walked along the shore and she was shouting hello at everyone who went past and she absolutely loves seeing the birds :) I feel really proud of her she is such an angel.
Thanks everyone for your support it has been the hardest couple of weeks of my life but thankfully thru the worst of it now.
The next challenge is adjusting to be happy on my own and improving my life, finally facing my social anxiety head-on so I can be the best dad possible to her.
I'm so happy for you. Children are a joy.
I'm sorry for your mum. As a grandparent it is heartbreaking not being included in your child's life ATM.
My only advice is that you will have to walk on eggshells for the moment and try to build good communication and separated relationship with your ex. Bottom line this will be more beneficial for you all especially for the baby.
Your mum WILL get to see the baby, but it must be agonising fr her.
Can you take its of photos to show her meantime?
You do have an option...the legal route.
MyNameIsTerry
02-11-16, 07:11
It's great to hear things are going so well again. What you are saying now is what it appeared to be at the start before her Googling about breakups. I think maturity is more important than any "30 day rule" by a long way and that's what you have been demonstrating all the way.
I reckon she has about as much ground to stand on with denying your mum contact, unless she has worries about confrontation given all your mum has done for her? If the latter, she could arrange a slot and only you be there.
You've already come a long way since the first post!
Enjoy these moments, and immerse yourself in them. Keep on top of it, and make every day count.
There are still hurdles to overcome. Still days where you'll feel like youve been beaten up.
But you are doing great. Even better than I did.
SurfingWaves
02-11-16, 14:54
I have been panicking a lot today, my ex came round to pick up some paperwork and told me she phoned the landlord to tell him we are both moving out and he isnt happy because he hasnt heard anything from me regarding this .I have had to write a lengthy email to him explaining that I was under the presumption that my ex would be staying in the flat with the baby and I have only just found out that she is also moving, that is why I am contacting him today. Me and my ex have both stated that the breakup only happened 5 days ago,
I tried calling him 3 times and left an awkward voicemail before writing an email to him and his wife.
I cant afford for anything to go wrong with my application for the new flat or I will be stranded with nowhere to live.
My energy levels are zero and I am suffering some serious burnout from all the stress the last few weeks and now this. I feel ill .
It takes its toll for sure.
Don't beat yourself up for feeling burnt out. You will do. Give yourself permission to "not give a f**k about anything" for a while. I did, and it helped.
I still get stressed when I have to deal with the Ex, because it is only ever a source of problems these day. Never positive, which is sad.
Took my girls out for dinner last night, and it was heaven. Hard work but so worth it.
My eldest daughter said to me on the way home, completely genuinely, "if I could choose every day, I wouldn't go to school, and i'd spend it with you."
That gave me a real buzz, and still does now. :)
Don't expect to always been on top form, because you won't.
Just always have the resolve to pick yourself up, and dust yourself off afterwards, and keep up the strength you've shown so far.
SurfingWaves
02-11-16, 18:21
Thanks mate, that is so nice to hear that your daughter loves being with you so much! I I will always strive to have a relationship like that with my daughter, I am choked up right now reading that TBH :)
I spoke to the landlord on the phone and he is the most reasonable landlord I have ever met, he is completely understanding of the situation and has offered for me to carry on here in this flat until the end of february at reduction of £150 rent!!! I told him I have already applied for a place and that he may receive a reference form soon and he is happy to give me a good reference too which is the best possible news and nothing like what I was expecting after initially talking to my ex who said he is stubborn and stern and not happy about us leaving all of a sudden.
what a rollercoaster of ups and downs, my feet arent touching the ground at the moment!
I have to get a handle on this catastrophic thinking which is often unfounded and really unhelpful to my anxiety. I need to start questioning all these negative thoughts instead of taking them as fact because I thought them.
For example this morning I was feeling quite positive but as soon as my ex came in to the flat and told me about the landlord problems I went in to full-blown panic mode. Went white as a sheet, started trembling and feeling really ill. had to take a propranalol just to be able to talk normally.
How can I stop fearing catastrophy all the time? there is always something I am worrying about and its sucking the life from me, I feel like I am being told the news someone just died all the time.
randomforeigner
02-11-16, 21:09
I have to get a handle on this catastrophic thinking which is often unfounded and really unhelpful to my anxiety. ... How can I stop fearing catastrophy all the time? there is always something I am worrying about and its sucking the life from me, I feel like I am being told the news someone just died all the time.
Perhaps writing in a diary every day could help sorting out your thoughts or discussing (with yourself obviously) various problems. If you have access to some online music subscription (such as Spotify) you could make an effort to listen to cheerful music which I think could help. I find that Frank Sinatra is particularly useful (I had a colleague who listened to it at the office). You might want to try it.
You can experiment with this and see if it helps: "Young at heart" https://open.spotify.com/track/0C8LePP1gEIcE80KcVLf6K
MyNameIsTerry
02-11-16, 22:54
It sounds like your ex is prone to a bit of an over exaggeration too. Would that be the case? If so, that can form part of strategy in challenging your thoughts because there are ways to tackle the Cognitive Distortions that focus on perceived evidence or rather the lack of.
SurfingWaves
02-11-16, 23:28
Hi Terry, I would say that she over-reactive for sure and admit that I am too, especially with the catastrophic thinking. I hardly think to myself 'everything will work out ok' its more 'oh no but what if' all the time. I go through life feeling like I am narrowly avoiding major disasters even though it isnt true most of the time. and when a disaster does happen like splitting with my girlfriend I am off the scale with panic and anxiety, even more than I imagine others to be in this situation.
How can I tone it down?
How can I stop fearing catastrophy all the time?
Get the audiobook version of The Obstacle is the Way.
We all face catastrophes. Some big, some small.
Don't fear catastrophe. You've already had one in the past four weeks, and you're handling it pretty well.
Sure you've got some worries and anxities, but so what... life is pretty shit for you right now, so allow yourself to feel it.
Don't fight it, but go with it....
The Obstacle is the Way.... :winks:
SurfingWaves
03-11-16, 00:32
I imagine so many catastrophies in the future as well, things that are rediculous but they still make me feel like crap. so many 'oh my god what if..' thoughts and I dont remember to accept them, i carry on thinking and then get bad anxiety and only then do I try to accept my anxiety but never the thoughts. I cant catch them in time to accept them if you know what I mean.
I think practicing mindfulness every waking minute will be the only way I can catch them in time
That's brilliant news from your landlord. And is a reminder that catastrophic thinking is not worth a seconds thought in your mind!! Next negative thought..remind yourself of this.x
Your emotional life right now will be a rollercoaster. You will survive it and believe me you will have good minutes, hours and days in the future. I so glad you have the joy of your child in your life. Relish that.
Any stress takes a toll on our physical bodies, and you have more than usual ATM. It's important that you eat well. Little and often. Fresh fruit or smoothies, high calorie foods when you need extra energy and basic vitamin supplements especially bit B to help with stress.
Controlling negative thoughts is important, I know, I've been there. It's a waste of time and can have you caught in a negative downward spiral. Replace them immediately.
Thinking of you x
What catastophes are you worrying about?
SurfingWaves
03-11-16, 13:42
Thanks Dally, I need to invest in a smoothie blender ASAP, everything is up in the air at the moment and I feel like its hard to concentrate on my physical health with all this stuff going on in my life. I am still looking pale and I lost a full stone in weight in the last 3 weeks, I am now at 12 and a half stone which is ideal for my height and I dont want to get any lower than that really.
You are right, it just proves once again that catastrophic thinking is pointless and I get carried away far too easily.
SLA, heres some of my catastrophic thoughts:
"What if I cant sleep and am unfit for work and lose my job" (I have had this one for a while now)
"what if my ex decides to move to another country with the baby"
"what if she meets someone else and they take my role as a dad"
and yesterday before speaking to the landlord it was
"what if I am rejected in my application for a flat and become homeless, and at Christmas too"
"what if my intrusive thoughts/OCD comes back"
and I will carry on making new ones if I can see any possible threat :(
I rarely worry about my health and dying, and I am sad to say that the past few weeks the thought of that has been a strange comfort to me which I know sounds really bad. This is only when I am feeling REALLY low though.
---------- Post added at 13:42 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------
Just wanted to add that I have had this catastrophic thinking since I was about 14 and it started in school because I would go bright red all the time and had no control over it so I would worry nearly all the time about possible situations it might happen. And it did happen, leading me to think that these catastrophic thoughts come true.
Yes, I have a lot of what if thoughts. They are totally unproductive, and need to be replaced with positive thoughts immediately. X
SurfingWaves
03-11-16, 23:43
Hi Dally, I am noticing the catastrophy thoughts quicker today and turning them around to be positive, feeling a bit better for it too. I'm also going to make sure I spend at least half an hour a day practicing mindfulness every day without fail as I think it will help resilience against anxiety and high stress,
So up and down at the moment. Was real depressed this morning, couldnt bring myself to get out of bed. Just sat reading phone and vaping for 5hrs.
When I got up, dressed and went out for a walk things changed quickly and I felt miles better.
Eating healthier, I have been eating loads of tomatoes, spinach and wholemeal bread. Avoiding salt and sugar, drinking 100% pure pineapple juice about a litre a day and taking a multi-vitamin once day too so hopefully feel the benefits of it all soon. It has to be said my diet used to be terrible! pizzas, noodles, chips and my favourite - kettle chips. That used to be my diet pretty much!!!
Very positive post SW. Ofcourse you will have low periods, but you ARE correcting yourself most of the time.
You've proved to yourself by getting out for a walk (or even just doing any distracting activity) changed the negative feelings into a positive.
When your feeling low, allow yourself a 5 min wallow then make yourself divert your thoughts or physically get up and do something distracting.
That's brilliant you are eating healthily. It will help your body cope better with all the stress you're under.
It is an awful thing youre dealing with, but things will get better.
SurfingWaves
04-11-16, 20:31
Thanks Dally for your kind words, feeling better already today with practicing mindfulness in the morning and a meditation on the train :) Hope you are doing ok
Hey, how have things been lately!?
Mindfulness is really good. Even just 5 minutes of it can turn a day around.
SurfingWaves
15-11-16, 15:41
Hi SLA,
Been busy the last week with getting in to the new flat and having the old one prepared for viewings etc. With having moved my anxiety pretty much disappeared so I think a big part of it was being in the old flat alone with all baby toys and stuff all around me and It must have played havoc in my sub conscious!
I havent seen my daughter since the 5th and I am going round to their new place in an hour or two so I am really looking forward to seeing her.
I did go thru a few more ups and downs since I last posted and my ex 'reassured' me that we will still be good friends and we will have lots of fun times ahead as a family, because I kept getting a feeling it was all a bit unreal. It was a very sudden split and her decision to be apart was a huge blow to me but I am getting used to it now. Still feel its a massive shame to split after 12yr like this but especially when our daughter is so young as well.
The mindfulness is a god-send to me personally. I practiced it years ago and it got me out of a bad OCD / intrusive thoughts nightmare so this time I could get straight into it. I found the first few weeks of learning mindfulness is finding out what it isn't and learning to just be instead of thinking if I am doing it right.It's impossible to be anxious and completely present in the moment, so now I use my anxiety as a signpost to mindfulness!
I do find that when I am not anxious I tend to forget about practicing so I am going to get an app that reminds me.
How are things going with you mate? I saw your video where you had the kids round playing on your synth that was really cool! They are really happy being with you I can tell :)
Wow, you are doing so well. 10 days, that must be do hard! 5 was bad enough for me.
Its so tough remaining proper friends, I hope that works out for you.
Things are good with me, but still putting up with new s**t every week!
MyNameIsTerry
17-11-16, 06:48
The mindfulness is a god-send to me personally. I practiced it years ago and it got me out of a bad OCD / intrusive thoughts nightmare so this time I could get straight into it. I found the first few weeks of learning mindfulness is finding out what it isn't and learning to just be instead of thinking if I am doing it right.It's impossible to be anxious and completely present in the moment, so now I use my anxiety as a signpost to mindfulness!
I do find that when I am not anxious I tend to forget about practicing so I am going to get an app that reminds me.
Yep, I can attest to that one. I know a few others on here who have agreed on this when we've discussed it. I was doing it daily in meditation form. When I drifted away from this, as my recovery was getting better, later on I found myself slipping backwards.
Like Professor Williams says, it's a life skill, not a technique. It's something to have in your life to continue to reap the benefits of. It's like stopping exercise means you become less healthy. The same with the mind. Look at the studies showing how brain training can help the mind. Or the studies about how even gentle exercise like walking several times a week stimulates the mind.
You've got the attitude to the practice nailed! Williams says early on in his book - you will fail. He says not to worry about this as it is expected. You learn from it. So, it's important not to put hard milestones on yourself as this is something that needs to come naturally.
---------- Post added at 06:48 ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 ----------
Hi Terry, I would say that she over-reactive for sure and admit that I am too, especially with the catastrophic thinking. I hardly think to myself 'everything will work out ok' its more 'oh no but what if' all the time. I go through life feeling like I am narrowly avoiding major disasters even though it isnt true most of the time. and when a disaster does happen like splitting with my girlfriend I am off the scale with panic and anxiety, even more than I imagine others to be in this situation.
How can I tone it down?
Well certainly keep up the Mindfulness as that is shown to help with this anyway. Aside from it helping you to steer your mind better, studies have shown (in fMRI scanning) that it reduces the density of the fear centre BUT also increases the density of an area more associated with compassion. I can attest to that latter as I felt a very definite "shift" towards compassion after about 6 months of daily meditation. It's known as a Cognitive Shift, and it changed me from that day.
But if you want to try more therapy based methods, learn about your Cognitive Distortions. The Wiki page is accurate, it matches what the charity I attended gave me and their methods are all CBT based. It can be more difficult at first when trying to spot them in your current anxious thinking so I spent some time reading threads on here and picking them out from what others were saying. This made it easier to apply more intuitively.
Working with these CDs is good because it reveals where your thinking is going wrong and how they feed each other. For instance, catastrophizing is a common one we hear on the forum but how many times do people look at where their thoughts are Minimising, Maximising, Labelling, Overgeneralising, etc. To some extent, you can see that in many threads but learning to spot each element helps you understand how you are fuelling the catastrophizing which comes off the back of some of the others.
Some useful tools to help work with things like this are:
http://psychology.tools/decatastrophizing.html
http://psychology.tools/theory-a-theory-b.html
http://psychology.tools/modifying-rules-and-assumptions.html
http://psychology.tools/what-if.html
http://psychology.tools/abc-belief-monitoring.html
And this one works specifically with those CDs I mentioned:
http://psychology.tools/dysfunctional-thought-record.html
But the standard format for that last worksheet tool is like this if you don't want to do that:
http://psychology.tools/cbt-thought-record.html
Working with Thought Records can be maximised by using positive language. We covered this at the charity sessions along with the CDs because they can have an impact on us. For instance, "should" is a negative word because it implies a fixed goal, something that adds pressure to you. So, instead you use "could" which implies choice, which means you have more control over whether you do not or not and don't feel forced into something. Combining this with therapy tools like the above helps maximise their impacts because you can imagine how included loads of negative words, that your mind it seeing, would hold you back.
Such an awesome post Terry.
I also have to remind myself to practice mindfulness on days where I feel ok. Because it always makes me feel even better, and gives me a boost. I've yet to find a plateau where doing mindfulness doesn't make things even more enjoyable.
I feel like I need loads today. :D :doh:
Surfing, Terry & SLA - mindfulness seems to have worked really well for you!
I became bored with it. Perhaps its time to give it another attempt & try to develop new habits. Working with record sheets challenging distautions is hard work (especially @ middle age - when change seems difficult)
SLA - you seem upbeat 90% of the time! I liked the film featuring your pretty little girls,
the other videos are good too.
Hey Lucinda, thank you so much for your kind words, it makes it all worth it. I'm upbeat most of the time. Maybe 60%. :D The past few days have been rough.
I got bored with it too, but I found a way/technique that works for me.
At various points in the day I will allow myself a few minutes to just enjoy and do one thing. I say to myself... "I am going to spend the next 2 minutes doing... X"
It might be looking at the trees in the local park, or completely enjoying a cup of tea and a biscuit.
My guide when doing this is:
It doesn’t matter what you do, just do it.
It doesn’t matter how long you do it for, if its 20 seconds great, if it’s 5 minutes superb.
It doesn’t matter if you get distracted.
It doesn’t matter if you think.
There is no pressure. No outcome to be attained. No reason to do it other than to bring your attention to whatever it is you are doing.
The reason mindfulness gets lost on people is that it is something which really requires practise and exercise. If you have spent years lost in thought, you don’t just snap out of it.
But with a bit off practise here and there, the benefits are huge, and it has single-handedly lifted me out of my worst days, and turned things around.
I mentioned this before, but Mindfulness for Beginners by Jon Kabat-Zinn was a beacon of shining light during my depression many years ago.
I got goosebumps just writing that, and remembering it.
"The reason mindfulness gets lost on people is that it is something which really requires practise and exercise. If you have spent years lost in thought, you don’t just snap out of it."
The last sentence made me laugh - that's me!
I've read Mark Williams book & have just done a body scan - which reduced my fatigue.
I'll have to try Mr Zinn's book - I did not know it helped so much with your depression. Thats good to hear.
Thanks for all the tips, & good luck to you:)
SurfingWaves
17-11-16, 19:59
Some really great posts on this thread, Terry the links you have posted are very useful so thank you, It is interesting that after practicing mindfulness it can be actually analysed with a brain scan, it just goes to show how powerful a tool this is.
SLA its great that you are practicing mindfulness too, and being 100% into what you are doing, appreciating that moment, that is true presence and the best way to live life! whats great is that the more we practice, that focus and presence will deepen, like you said, even a few minutes can turn a bad day round!
I think there should be a dedicated mindfulness sub forum (and Terry your resource thread should be stickied there) on this site because it is so helpful with a multitude of anxiety and stress disorders.
By the way, the book that got me out of a dark hole years ago and introduced me to mindfulness was The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. Actually cried with happiness when I realised there was a 'now' haha! Joining the present moment after months of constant mental torture felt like a holiday !
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