Alternative for me...

[cjemc]

Would it be worth me trying to be referred for a capsule endoscopy?
This would at least give some indication if I had anything wrong with me, plus I read that capsule endoscopy can go all the way from throat to small intestine to bowel, so it is a lot more thorough than a conventional endoscopy!

What do you reckon?
It would probably be a lot more tolerable than conventional endoscopy?

If they wont give me that what about trans-nasal endoscopy?
Like an endoscopy but doesn't go over the gag reflex and rarely requires any sedation, etc.

[MyNameIsTerry]

I think the only answer to that is to talk to someone who understands the procedures. If they believe one is needed, they will recommend it. If they believe they can help you beat a normal one, they will go that route.

[Mercime]

Trans nasal is still going down the oesophagus Calum. The tube is smaller, but you still need local anaesthetic, you still have to swallow as the tube is being passed down your throat. To my knowledge it doesn't bypass anything, might be easier as its smaller though.

The capsule endoscopy is used to examine the bowel Calum, it's used because ordinary endoscopies can't reach that far. I don't think it would be appropriate for the problem you seem to have, and I doubt if you would get a referral for it somehow.

Probably best to discuss this with your GP. Any thoughts on tackling the anxiety yet? You seem determined to carry on drinking so little point in raising that topic. Does your doc know though? It's relevant because your problem all but went away when
You stopped - so is endoscopy really necessary?

[MyNameIsTerry]

This retching symptom has been going on since 2011.
I used to go through long periods of not drinking and I felt slightly better but the retching was still on my mind 24/7 even when I wasn't drinking.
Maybe I have some form of sub-conscious OCD ritual related to having to retch and gag who knows?

Did it stop? The first I've heard of that was in the other thread which prompted this response.

So, does the retching come from drinking? I thought the retching eased when drinking, which may just be because of the calming effect?

If this is an obsessive-compulsive cycle, where does the alcohol fit in? And why do you stop the compulsion, which stops the retching, but you are capable of not performing the compulsion despite still feeling the obsession? That is something those of us working through recovery achieve, they don't easily stop on their own.

Personally, I don't think we have ever got to grips with what you do & why. I've never seen it fully explained and I'm well versed in a lot of OCD themes from my own experiences and talking to a lot of OCD sufferers with others. Until it is properly understood at what point the retching takes place and where the alcohol fits in, I think we will just go round in circles and if it has been established, I can't say I've seen it from reading many of your threads unless some members are PMing, in which case it's hard to contribute to partial stories on the forum. :shrug:

[Mercime]

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1334654&postcount=21

Bottom paragraph of the post Terry.

PS. Nearly forgot to add something. Calum, you have sailed into pre-diabetic territory on a few occasions. You may not realise that carbohydrates, bread, potatoes, pasta and rice all push sugar levels up. Fresh fruit juice is packed with sugar, doesn't matter that it's "healthy sugar", diabetic bodies can't tell the difference! Cereal is also one of the worst. Lager, well, you can figure that one out.
Hope you made changes to your diet? Btw - you can get finger prick tests done at many chemists. You could get a meter for yourself.
But even if diagnosed, diet is the first thing to change. Do you mind me asking if your are obese?

[cjemc]

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1334654&postcount=21

Bottom paragraph of the post Terry.

PS. Nearly forgot to add something. Calum, you have sailed into pre-diabetic territory on a few occasions. You may not realise that carbohydrates, bread, potatoes, pasta and rice all push sugar levels up. Fresh fruit juice is packed with sugar, doesn't matter that it's "healthy sugar", diabetic bodies can't tell the difference! Cereal is also one of the worst. Lager, well, you can figure that one out.
Hope you made changes to your diet? Btw - you can get finger prick tests done at many chemists. You could get a meter for yourself.
But even if diagnosed, diet is the first thing to change. Do you mind me asking if your are obese?

I've had finger prick tests before. I am exceptionally slim.

[Mercime]

Yes, I know - reason for mentioning is that you have had those raised pre diabetic levels, that could be one way of keeping an eye on it without going to the doc. I asked about obesity in relation to retching, not diabetes by the way, not all diet controlled diabetics are overweight.
Have you ever vomited in your life Calum?

[MyNameIsTerry]

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1334654&postcount=21

Bottom paragraph of the post Terry.

PS. Nearly forgot to add something. Calum, you have sailed into pre-diabetic territory on a few occasions. You may not realise that carbohydrates, bread, potatoes, pasta and rice all push sugar levels up. Fresh fruit juice is packed with sugar, doesn't matter that it's "healthy sugar", diabetic bodies can't tell the difference! Cereal is also one of the worst. Lager, well, you can figure that one out.
Hope you made changes to your diet? Btw - you can get finger prick tests done at many chemists. You could get a meter for yourself.
But even if diagnosed, diet is the first thing to change. Do you mind me asking if your are obese?

Thanks. So, that's 3 days in years? But where is the tie to compulsive activity? He's talked about general anxiety too in travelling and understanding the retching trigger to this.

The GP thought OCD, which I have reservations over, but if the anxiety is more general this could be just a symptom that comes out under pressure. The constant chasing of diagnosis for the retching can fit under Somatoform, which is complicated territory with OCD due to the overlaps. But I still haven't seen something which doesn't imply self medication of a more general anxiety than OCD. Then there is the agoraphobia.

I think he seriously needs to consider where this alcohol route is likely to take him in future years. I can tell from previous threads that he is in denial over certain issues and I hope he somehow manages to find the courage to take the first steps which may include getting beyond the bias against meds when he is using something already that will lead him down a path he doesn't want to go.

Hopefully one of us will get through at some point.

[Mercime]

I don't see compulsion, but I'm not an expert. The three days in three years could be bypassed as being of no real consequence, but as it seems to be the only time that symptoms have reduced so drastically, I think it needs to be acknowledged. I've highlighted the food side of it because of the raised bg levels which put him in pre diabetes territory, I'd also consider any changes to his previous poor diet as something that can only help stomach issues. Only my opinion (as ever) but it boils down to this.

1) Acknowledging that the way to get a clear picture of the digestive tract is by an endoscopy. Many have fear of vomiting, but if we want answers, we have to get it done.

2) He doesn't vomit when he retches. If he's ever been able to vomit, then that side of things is probably working well.

3) He's using alcohol in place of prescribed meds and it can only be aggravating the very issues he's suffering.

4) Agora is just another outlet for anxiety, another - albeit useful - label.

5) Nothing happening in the way of therapy.

Calum, you strike me as an articulate young man who has had severe stresses in life. That can apply to many of us, and we don't always choose to share this with others on the forum. But the ball is in your court on this, you know it is. So..its down to you to make the move. You choose not to, then you need to take responsibility for not looking into the advice given here.

[cjemc]

I don't see compulsion, but I'm not an expert. The three days in three years could be bypassed as being of no real consequence, but as it seems to be the only time that symptoms have reduced so drastically, I think it needs to be acknowledged. I've highlighted the food side of it because of the raised bg levels which put him in pre diabetes territory, I'd also consider any changes to his previous poor diet as something that can only help stomach issues. Only my opinion (as ever) but it boils down to this.

1) Acknowledging that the way to get a clear picture of the digestive tract is by an endoscopy. Many have fear of vomiting, but if we want answers, we have to get it done.

2) He doesn't vomit when he retches. If he's ever been able to vomit, then that side of things is probably working well.

3) He's using alcohol in place of prescribed meds and it can only be aggravating the very issues he's suffering.

4) Agora is just another outlet for anxiety, another - albeit useful - label.

5) Nothing happening in the way of therapy.

Calum, you strike me as an articulate young man who has had severe stresses in life. That can apply to many of us, and we don't always choose to share this with others on the forum. But the ball is in your court on this, you know it is. So..its down to you to make the move. You choose not to, then you need to take responsibility for not looking into the advice given here.

I don't fear vomiting with an endoscopy. I just have a morbid fear of this particular procedure.
When you say "if I've ever been able to vomit then that side of things is working well" what does that mean? Does it mean its a bad or a good sign that I am not vomiting with the retching?

What's 3 days in 3 years mean? What happened in 3 days and 3 years?

And yes I am a diligent young man who has been stressed badly but these stresses have long gone and the retching continues, surely if it was purely stress/psychological related then once the stresses had passed then wouldn't the symptom which was being caused by the stress also cease? Why does the retching persist even though the stressful events that may have been the trigger have long gone?

---------- Post added at 19:12 ---------- Previous post was at 19:10 ----------


Thanks. So, that's 3 days in years? But where is the tie to compulsive activity? He's talked about general anxiety too in travelling and understanding the retching trigger to this.

The GP thought OCD, which I have reservations over, but if the anxiety is more general this could be just a symptom that comes out under pressure. The constant chasing of diagnosis for the retching can fit under Somatoform, which is complicated territory with OCD due to the overlaps. But I still haven't seen something which doesn't imply self medication of a more general anxiety than OCD. Then there is the agoraphobia.

I think he seriously needs to consider where this alcohol route is likely to take him in future years. I can tell from previous threads that he is in denial over certain issues and I hope he somehow manages to find the courage to take the first steps which may include getting beyond the bias against meds when he is using something already that will lead him down a path he doesn't want to go.

Hopefully one of us will get through at some point.

Hi Terry, when you say the "alcohol route" and "lead him down a path he doesn't want to go" are you suggesting that I may die from alcoholism? I don't think I would ever end up in such a mess hopefully. I don't drink dangerous levels, just enough to relax and help the retching cease.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Hi Terry, when you say the "alcohol route" and "lead him down a path he doesn't want to go" are you suggesting that I may die from alcoholism? I don't think I would ever end up in such a mess hopefully. I don't drink dangerous levels, just enough to relax and help the retching cease.

Hi Calum,

I mean it could lead you to alcoholism. There will be many that have said "I don't think I will drink more and it's helping me now..." in AA's all around the world. There were 2 at the walk-in groups who had beaten addictions, one alcohol, another drugs. I wonder what they were saying before they became dependent?

It may only be 2-5 now, but what if your anxiety gets worse? Will you increase the alcohol levels? What would your GP think about drinking 2-5 a day? Would he/she see that as acceptable knowing the risk factors to not only alcoholism since you are self medicating, but also to more serious physical problems later in life? Are you aware of the risk factors?


Meds scare me and I am not willing to risk the serious side effects.
I was on my way to therapy but had to cancel because I'm agoraphobic.
I went to have my endoscopy done but went hysterical and had to cancel.
I don't want to drink, but if it is the only "remedy" that gives me temporary relief then I don't see why I shouldn't use it for relaxation purposes.

Do you read many threads on here? Have you seen the huge number of us saying how we are afraid of meds? Some are stuck in the rut, like you, many have made the step to trying them. Some people end up riding the rollercoaster in varying states and some get lucky in finding something that helps fairly quickly. Was I afraid of anti depressants? No. Why? Because I trusted my GP. Two days later I was in a terrible state with the Crisis Team sitting in my house! When I relapsed later, was I afraid of these meds? Not really, BUT I was very afraid of what they might do to me because of my previous experience. Guess what? I was far worse the 2nd time and ended up with severe OCD, when I never had OCD before, and spent several years eliminating the many OCD themes I suddenly had. I still battle OCD now, it rules my life in certain ways.

I don't want to scare you about them but I want you to appreciate that you are talking to many people who fear all this too. But I can see that you are trying to not only validate your use of alcohol but bias yourself to only the worst of the side effects of these meds. Yet we all run those same risks as you.

Threads like this, for example:

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=187425
http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=177553

As you can see, I'm not the only one who has picked up on your attempts at validation.

And this:

http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk/showthread.php?t=177927

There are plenty of others in your thread history.

Do I believe you have OCD? From what you have said, I think it's unlikely. Your GP has said you have but there are other possibilities BUT I'm mean other anxiety disorders. Unless you have told your GP absolutely everything to allow them to decide on OCD, I don't believe you have described enough to allow us to work it out. What I see is someone with more general anxiety with social anxiety issues, so it could be GAD or GAD & SA. The alcohol seems to be more about deadening your symptoms and the retching seems to be a stress response BUT I also don't feel there is enough to say this for sure because it's all I can pick out from your threads because I don't believe you have said enough about how it all works, hence I question what your GP sees.

I also question whether you are telling us everything. I'm not going to judge you, none of us on here are anywhere near perfect ourselves, but I feel things are missing so I can't understand it all. I hope that if that is the case on here that you are taking in what we are all saying and can learn to be honest with yourself. I could be wrong, it's just how I feel about your threads but it doesn't mean I don't feel the same need to support you as anyone else on here so please don't think that.

---------- Post added at 05:59 ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 ----------


I don't see compulsion, but I'm not an expert. The three days in three years could be bypassed as being of no real consequence, but as it seems to be the only time that symptoms have reduced so drastically, I think it needs to be acknowledged. I've highlighted the food side of it because of the raised bg levels which put him in pre diabetes territory, I'd also consider any changes to his previous poor diet as something that can only help stomach issues. Only my opinion (as ever) but it boils down to this.

1) Acknowledging that the way to get a clear picture of the digestive tract is by an endoscopy. Many have fear of vomiting, but if we want answers, we have to get it done.

2) He doesn't vomit when he retches. If he's ever been able to vomit, then that side of things is probably working well.

3) He's using alcohol in place of prescribed meds and it can only be aggravating the very issues he's suffering.

4) Agora is just another outlet for anxiety, another - albeit useful - label.

5) Nothing happening in the way of therapy.

Calum, you strike me as an articulate young man who has had severe stresses in life. That can apply to many of us, and we don't always choose to share this with others on the forum. But the ball is in your court on this, you know it is. So..its down to you to make the move. You choose not to, then you need to take responsibility for not looking into the advice given here.

I agree with you about the 3 days but he also said he didn't drink for years. :shrug:

There was an implication that the alcohol use is also a trigger for the retching yet I can't see that. I think the retching is more likely a main symptom in the anxiety and the alcohol is just being used to reduce anxiety levels which also reduces the symptoms.

I don't see the alcohol as compulsive in the OCD sense, more a crutch which can apply to all anxiety disorders.

I agree about the agoraphobia. I've been through that with my GAD and it was always at the worst stages. It may be a separate disorder or just part of something like GAD given the social anxiety issues too that could further point towards GAD.

In the past, when his GP thought OCD, I've considered Sensorimotor OCD. That would fit the retching BUT it would be conscious control to bring it on and this OCD theme is a severe one that takes over your life, it's often found with breathing, swallowing, etc. I think we would have a much greater level of detail about the retching if that was the case.

---------- Post added at 06:01 ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 ----------


I don't fear vomiting with an endoscopy. I just have a morbid fear of this particular procedure.
When you say "if I've ever been able to vomit then that side of things is working well" what does that mean? Does it mean its a bad or a good sign that I am not vomiting with the retching?

On the other thread you said:


Wouldn't this be extremely dangerous given that you would be trying to expel the tube which was in your stomach and in your esophogus?

I was just wondering because I have read stories on other forums where people say they retched/gagged uncontrollably and the procedure had to be stopped.

That's the one thing that has stopped me from having this particular procedure.

So, is it the procedure or your retching if it occurred during the procedure? The latter says it's about your obsession with the retching. It's not a nice procedure, I think we would all agree there.