Russia & Syria etc [Archive]

mezzaninedoor

05-11-16, 11:54

Some of you may help me get a perspective on this, Im pretty sure Terry will have a view and Ive found debates on here useful.

I can't get my head around the wests treatment of Syria, especially after what we have done previously in Bosnia, Iraq, Libya and countless other places.

Russian missiles appear to be raining down on Allepo, estimates are that 500,000 of Assad's population in Syria have died since the Syrian war started. Sir John Sawers wants to jaw jaw more with Putin, Andrew Mitchell wants the UK to intervene. All the time more and more Syrians on both sides are dying in the war. Sawers seems to have a corporate interest as BP gains a 1/4 of its profits now from its dealings with Russia & Sir John Sawers is now on the BP Board ??? Sounds fishy.

I'm not sure how different Clinton and Trump view Russia as Russia seem to favour Trump as the candidate that works for them.

It feels like based on where our moral compass has been in the past we should be more active in Syria on behalf of those getting killed but we seem to be running scared of international and corporate interests. Obviously its an incredibly complex situation indeed.

Any ideas out there ?

MyNameIsTerry

05-11-16, 12:48

Yes, it does feel like we should be more involved based on our past and I think the answer to that is Russia. We are all good at sending in our military machine into some backwater knowing they are firing pea shooters at our tanks but risking a fight with an equal opponent is not what our politicians want. They want to guaranteed a win.

We don't really have wars. Iraq? Hardly a war when you look at our casualties. Definitely a war on that basis if you were an Iraqi. Of course, it's easy to press a button and send a cruise missile from a ship that your enemy have no capability of blowing up. It's different when you are trading blows.

Do we want big losses of men & women because we will if we engage a real enemy. The public complain about losses in Afghanistan. Imagine if it were more like our last real wars?

Obama must know this and we tend to do what the US want us to. I'm no fan of his but he's a clever man and will remember what Vietnam did to the US politically. Putin isn't some tinpot dictator with just enough rifles to go around. And Putin is not a career politician, isn't he ex KGB? So, he has the stomach to fight rather than slither around the electorate.

And so we get another proxy war. We pretend not to really be involved and Russia pretend to believe we are not really involved. If we put boots on the ground, Russia are forced to respond to our aggression. Assad wants them there.

Aren't we supposed to be fighting ISIS? But somehow we get tied up with rebels. These rebels have connections to ISIS. Some of the rebels appear to be just as bad. Was it Al Nusra that beheaded a child on camera which they cheered and displayed online? Amnesty International picked them up on it and the US backed away from this rebel group who they had previously supported. The end justifies the means? Haven't some weapons already found their way into ISIS hands?

Obama said Assad's use of chemical weapons was "stepping over a line". The UN can't find evidence be did, can they? A senior UN figure has said she believes the rebels have used chemical weapons.

There was an article this week about a family who escaped Aleppo. They stated the rebels forced the public to stay, at gunpoint. So, they are using human shields. The rebels were executing one of them for trying to leave.

Who are we getting ourselves involved with here? "Moderate" rebels that sound quite a bit like those naughty men of ISIS. Do we think if we get them into power that they will bow to us and play nice? Or will the torture & murder begin?

I've started to find myself lost in it all. We have the media complaining about whether Russia "may" have allowed bombing of civilians yet Obama gives missiles to rebels, some of whom have also targeted civilians. Double standard? And then there is Saudi and Yemen but apparently that's all fine & above board. Why? Because we need their resources?

It's an area where the election raises some questions. Putin seems ok with Trump. Will Trump aggravate the Saudi's? The Saudi's like Hillary, strange considering their views on women? Hillary wants more action in Syria despite Obama being cautious.

The US & Russia worked together for a time and we seem to have veered off. And a few years back the US liked Assad. The UN started documenting human rights abuses, now the US don't like him? Yet the Saudi's can abuse people and even get a leg up in the UN? What a farce.

I feel a bit lost in why we are there now. More reading needed, I guess. :shrug: