View Full Version : SWallowing
I'm sitting here in tears. I don't know where to turn anymore.
When I swallow something defintely feels wrong. It's like when I'm trying to spit up it's as though something is wrong either with the roof of my mouth on right side or tongue.
I've seen neurologist twice and he said it's just anxiety but something defintely feels 'wrong'.
I just feel something terrible is wrong and it's going to be too late because no one believes me. Im so scared.
Sorry you're feeling so bad but I would have to side with the medical professionals. What are you currently doing to treat your anxiety?
Positive thoughts
No-one here is going to argue with the opinion of a neurologist who's actually examined you. Trust the experts.
Hi
I am taking fluoxetine again and upping it from tomorrow. I am also seeing a psychologist. Have my second app tom.
The neurologist did look in my mouth and conducted a neuro exam but. It sure how else he would be able to tell if I was swallowing or my tongue was ok? I was eating mashed potato earlier and felt I couldn't push it tomabck
Of my throat properly. I doesn't happen with more solid type food, bread , meat etc. I also notice it when I'm brushing my teeth and go to spit out, it's like something is stopping my tongue doing it's normal. How can that be anxiety?
So so fed up worrying. I'm convinced my tongue is becoming paralysed.
you've used the word feel so many times in this thread. feeling means jack sh*t. when you cant DO, then be worried.
MyNameIsTerry
12-12-16, 05:49
You would be surprised just how much anxiety can do, things I wouldn't post in a HA board but in severe cases they can manifest things you would think to be impossible.
But please consider how much swallowing is a known problem in anxiety. It's not just lump in the throat thing, it's struggling to do certain things because our muscles are so tight in our bodies.
Think about those of us who feel our breathing is constantly laboured? Muscular tension can cause that as the muscles in the back and around the diaphragm are clenching.
You can find yourself swallowing constantly, trying to do it hard, trying to swallow because it feels like something is there, etc and all this can mean some inflammation like with many manual or forced bodily functions that operate mostly in a subconscious way. Just ask those of us who have been through manual breathing on that one or the far worse cases of those with the Sensorimotor OCD theme.
The important part here is neurologists saying there is nothing to indicate a problem therefore they eliminate real physical concerns and fall back on the anxiety diagnosis.
you've used the word feel so many times in this thread. feeling means jack sh*t. when you cant DO, then be worried.
Hi Josh
I know I use the word feel a lot. I speak like this too. However when I am brushing my teeth to spit out my tongue is not doing what it usually does. The same when I was eating the potato last night my mouth was sticking at the pushing it to the throat. I appreciate what you are saying but surely the weakness has to start somewhere.
The neurologist did look inny mouth. It surely that's not enough??
---------- Post added at 16:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:49 ----------
You would be surprised just how much anxiety can do, things I wouldn't post in a HA board but in severe cases they can manifest things you would think to be impossible.
But please consider how much swallowing is a known problem in anxiety. It's not just lump in the throat thing, it's struggling to do certain things because our muscles are so tight in our bodies.
Think about those of us who feel our breathing is constantly laboured? Muscular tension can cause that as the muscles in the back and around the diaphragm are clenching.
You can find yourself swallowing constantly, trying to do it hard, trying to swallow because it feels like something is there, etc and all this can mean some inflammation like with many manual or forced bodily functions that operate mostly in a subconscious way. Just ask those of us who have been through manual breathing on that one or the far worse cases of those with the Sensorimotor OCD theme.
The important part here is neurologists saying there is nothing to indicate a problem therefore they eliminate real physical concerns and fall back on the anxiety diagnosis.
I hope so Terry. I'm terrified. I've not eaten today because I can't bear the way it is in my mouth. The neurologist did look in my mouth and asked me to say 'ah'. He got me to do it twice which worried me that something wasn't quite right the first time he looked but I was too scared to ask him incase i fixated on it. I have another app with him on the 22nd. I had asked him if I should cancel tjosnat my last app and he said to just wait and see how I feel and that he is happy to see me. It just seems no matter what he says and does to examin me I feel fine for a bit and then start worrying. He said he is not giving me an emg because his clinical exams are normal.
randomforeigner
12-12-16, 16:57
The 22nd is just ten days away. Maybe you could make some notes ("keep a diary") over what's happening and when you get your problems, what you ate, just for those remaining few days. In that way, you'll have something tangible to show, not just (as I'm assuming now) sweeping descriptions how it is often a problem, but with not so much detail. There is obviously a disease called "dysphagia" (learned a new word now). How old are you? That might be important too. One of the treatments mentioned is to go and see a therapist to learn new swallowing techniques, so one cause might be that one has learned or acquired a weird swallowing technique. Whose to know what technique one has learned? I didn't even know there existed more than one technique (mine, of course) but now I've just learned there are several ways to handle this problem, the swallowing problem.
---------- Post added at 17:57 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ----------
You mentioned "reflux" in another of your posts (I searched for 'find all posts by...') and - haha - look here, the NHS lists reflux as one (common?) cause of "dysphagia": "gastro-oesophageal reflux disease (GORD) – stomach acid can cause scar tissue to develop, narrowing your oesophagus". The oesophagus is the food pipe, didn't know that, now I learned yet another word.
The 22nd is just ten days away. Maybe you could make some notes ("keep a diary") over what's happening and when you get your problems, what you ate, just for those remaining few days. In that way, you'll have something tangible to show, not just (as I'm assuming now) sweeping descriptions how it is often a problem, but with not so much detail. There is obviously a disease called "dysphagia" (learned a new word now). How old are you? That might be important too. One of the treatments mentioned is to go and see a therapist to learn new swallowing techniques, so one cause might be that one has learned or acquired a weird swallowing technique. Whose to know what technique one has learned? I didn't even know there existed more than one technique (mine, of course) but now I've just learned there are several ways to handle this problem, the swallowing problem.
---------- Post added at 17:57 ---------- Previous post was at 17:52 ----------
You mentioned "reflux" in another of your posts (I searched for 'find all posts by...') and - haha - look here, the NHS lists reflux as one (common?) cause of "dysphagia": "gastro-oesophageal reflux disease (GORD) – stomach acid can cause scar tissue to develop, narrowing your oesophagus". The oesophagus is the food pipe, didn't know that, now I learned yet another word.
Thanks. Yes you are right I should keep a diary. I will do this. I am 36.
You will have seen that I recently had a brain MRI too which was clear so this is why I'm panicking about ALS. My gp says I have reflux altho never been formally diagnosed via a test.
the neurologist said to me I am focussing on normal phsysiological things and fixating on them.
I have felt terrible. I've managed to bring my neurology app forward to tonight. Woke up
Again this morning with my tongue stuck to right hand side of my mouth. Chewed to bits.
I'm terrified.
MyNameIsTerry
13-12-16, 14:28
Is it worse when you wake?
If you are chewing your tongue in your sleep, you may be grinding your teeth in your sleep. Biting the tongue is common with this.
Is your jaw aching? Does it ache more when you wake or earlier in the day?
Yes worse when I wake. Although I'm noticing I'm clenching my teeth throughout the day too. Just can't stop worrying about ALS. I'm going to ask if I can pay for an emg if he says no to ordering it again on NHS.
MyNameIsTerry
13-12-16, 16:41
Right, well having jaw pain that is worse when waking, according to my dentist, was a sign of grinding your teeth in the night. Teeth grinding is also one you get with anxiety and many meds have this (Bruxism) as a side effect.
You mentioned you were on Fluoxetine and were upping the dose too. How long have you been on it and did this start or worsen around that time? The reason I ask is that Bruxism is listed in the Uncommon (0.1-1%) side effects list.
When I started my current med (Duloxetine), I had the best part of 6 months of Bruxism. It ramped up my anxiety big time. I couldn't clamp my teeth together properly, couldn't open my mouth wide, had some pain when eating, had bad headaches, had right side facial pain that would be up past the temple (the bands of muscle run around there so that when you clench your teeth, these contract), would wake with pain, have difficulty in moving my mouth properly as it felt tight all time.
I didn't have the biting my tongue or chewing it issue but I've spoken to a few on here with the night grinding who have had that.
I didn't know what it was. I had just started seeing a dentist again for other reasons and mentioned it. He had a feel of my jaw muscles and said they were enlarged, hence the issues with clamping & opening my mouth wide (I literally could only open it half the distance). If you've ever lifted weights, like I used to, you will know that you can have days after where the inflammation means the muscle is swollen & weak (because lifting weights or any muscle building exercise causes "micro tears" in the muscles so they rebuild stronger & bigger. Same basic principle with my jaw muscles). He asked if it was worse in the morning. I said yes. He checked my teeth and found evidence of grinding. I had recently had an x-ray with them because I was a new patient and they did this as standard, and this revealed there were no issues there.
He concluded I was grinding my teeth in my sleep and gave me some advice on how to improve this. It eventually went, although I've had the odd few days where it came back due to high anxiety periods.
So, if you read my symptoms above, would that make you worry about things like ALS? Not being able to open your mouth properly, for instance? I don't have any HA elements to my anxiety so I never doubted it was anything but for someone with HA I would imagine your will be thinking of all sorts of muscle atrophy and brain related things?
So, rather than push for tests - how about talking to him about all this and seeing what he thinks? Maybe a trip to the dentist would be an idea? A dentist can easily see grinding signs.
I'm wondering whether you are grinding your teeth so much that it is affecting your tongue & swallowing ability? I couldn't say because I didn't have this precisely, and obviously it's one for a suitable medical professional, BUT I can say I had all the above.
Another thing I went through, at the worst of my anxiety, is questioning automated bodily processes. How do I breathe? How do I swallow? How do I fall asleep? How do I wake up? My need for control meant I questioned some very strange things. AND cognitive issues are a well known symptom of an anxiety disorder, and Serotonin is responsible for these functions, and my mind would be so confused I would be literally trying to remember how to do something like blink.
ScaredLizard
13-12-16, 18:48
The swallowing issues are very stereotypical of anxiety. I've had it too! I'm sure most people in this board have. Take a deep breath.
Hi there
I just want to update. Just back from neuro consult. This is the 3rd time I have been to see this specialist. He did various exams that he has done before reflexes, babinski sign all the facial muscle tests. Then he looked at my tongue, got me to stick it out, checked my palate and throat. He also tested my reflexes on my mouth and lips. Plus a whole host of other things.
He then sat me down and said he cannot find anything clinically wrong with me. The exam is normal. (Again). I asked him about ALS and he said he has seen it many a time and I do not have it. I asked about an emg and he said he will order it if I want but he knows for a fact it will be normal. He said I have to go home and think about it he would prefer I don't get it as he said he only orders a test to confirm what he finds wrong in a clinical exam and given mine is normal he wouldn't normally order it. He said because I'm so stressed though he would do it. I can have it on nhs and wait 4 months or pay for it but he said I am wasting my money.
Again he has said that I am noticing normal functioning and misinterpreting it.
I need to sort my anxiety because this is like a drug this reassurance and to be honest each time I see him the effects last even less. I know I'm
Mad but I think the only way I will settle is to have the emg.
Thanks for all the replies. You have taken a lot of time and I appreciate that. 8' abot tondrive home and will reply properly shortly.
Yeah, we all knew you were fine. Frankly, any posts from here on out regarding your fear of ALS should immediately be redirected to treatment of your health phobias and anxiety. Glad you got good news.
MyNameIsTerry
14-12-16, 04:46
I think he should be firm on the test issue - it won't achieve anything but it will cost the NHS so I don't think they should leave the door open for anxiety to seek reassurance. That's a fault with some doctors. I think you need to really think about this, any relief is going to be really temporary and then it's back to the same issue.
I think it's worth investigating the possibilities with the med and the Bruxism to see if there is an explanation even if it turns out to be due to increased anxiety.
I know it seems easy to say I'm fine but tone I'm genuinely terrified.
I have the symptoms and to me it's because of als.
The inner cheek and tongue biting during sleep is stressig me out so much telling me I have ALS.
My left foots is sore. If I stand on my top toes on this one foot it's sore afterwards. If I do it with the right foot it's not sore.
MyNameIsTerry
16-12-16, 05:41
But your right foot isn't the one that is sore, so why would the toes be sore after standing that way? If you injure a part of the body, placing it under strain again whilst the body is still repairing it will certainly cause it to react with greater pain because it is already sore.
If you dropped a heavy object on your left foot, wouldn't you expect doing anything with that foot to hurt until it had healed? But wouldn't you expect your right foot to not hurt because nothing has happened to it?
Thanks Terry. I understand what you are saying but I have no reason to have a sore left foot in the first place.
It is the thinner one, the thinner ankle and calf and just seems less stable. So when I do the exercises it's sore.
I know it seems easy to say I'm fine but tone I'm genuinely terrified.
I have the symptoms and to me it's because of als.
The inner cheek and tongue biting during sleep is stressig me out so much telling me I have ALS.
My left foots is sore. If I stand on my top toes on this one foot it's sore afterwards. If I do it with the right foot it's not sore.
It doesn't matter what you think. You are wholly unqualified to make that call, and frankly, you talking about a sore foot being ALS, proves to me you don't even know what you're talking about. Your issue is anxiety, period. Get help for it, or dont. Your call. But you do not have ALS.
It doesn't matter what you think. You are wholly unqualified to make that call, and frankly, you talking about a sore foot being ALS, proves to me you don't even know what you're talking about. Your issue is anxiety, period. Get help for it, or dont. Your call. But you do not have ALS.
Josh I don't know why you are so hostile towards me. I am suffering just like the majority of people on here. As I have stated in previous posts I am getting help for the anxiety and I am post natal. I am on medication, I am seeing a psychiatrist and a cpn.
However I am crippled with intense fear. Also there can be pain. Given this foot is also the the thin one and feels unstable. Plus all the swallowing issues. I can't help that I am terrified. I have health anxiety Josh, that's why I'm here. Sorry if I seem to bother you.
LE,
It's great that you're getting help with your anxiety. That's key in overcoming your HA and learning ways to cope when the intense irrational fears are overwhelming as they are right now. Kudos for doing so!
It's very clear you don't have ALS. We're not doctors but it still quite apparent and you admit it's your HA that doing this to you. You're also doing things like self testing that are a way to validate your fear and it's the dragon's way of keeping you in his grip breathing hot fire down your neck.
I've known several members that have been told by their therapists that reassurance seeking is detrimental in their recovery. What does your therapist think of you posting? I ask because in doing so you're just keeping this fear alive.
Positive thoughts
Hi Fishmanpa
Thank you for responding. The thing is it's not clear tonne it's ha? I do think that some of the symptoms could be explained as anxiety but I know they are also symptoms of als. The neurologist I've since discovered is a neuro muscular specialist with 30year plus experience. I try to rationalise with myself that he knows what he is talking about and i don't but when I put food in my mouth and my tongue feels weak it's sets me off. Or when I wake up and ice cheeed my tongue. Or when I constantly clear my throat.
Or when I walk my foot is sore. Yes it gets sorer if I do these exercises but it is generally achy anyway.
Yes you are right about the posting. I have only seen the cpn once so we have not discussed this. But I was in recovery before for 2 years. And yes I was advised to stop visiting the anxiety forums and to stop posting. I was advised to stop self checking. I was advised to take the medication. Through doing these things I got well.
If you look back at my posts I think there was maybe only one in whole of 2015 and similar 2016 until recently. Since I have been off meds and post natal.
The fear is so great at the moment and it keeps gripping me as you say. I keep coming here as I feel the people on here understand and I can try to be more rational when I read people's responses.
I desperately want to believe I am ok. I desperately want my life back. I literally spend every waking hour at the moment terrified. It occupies 100percent of my thoughts x
Josh I don't know why you are so hostile towards me. I am suffering just like the majority of people on here. As I have stated in previous posts I am getting help for the anxiety and I am post natal. I am on medication, I am seeing a psychiatrist and a cpn.
However I am crippled with intense fear. Also there can be pain. Given this foot is also the the thin one and feels unstable. Plus all the swallowing issues. I can't help that I am terrified. I have health anxiety Josh, that's why I'm here. Sorry if I seem to bother you.
I have not once been hostile, I am simply not offering blind reassurance, as it does no good. You are sitting here still saying "to me, it's ALS." If you simply said you were scared, that would be different, but you're literally trying to play doctor and connect all these dots that have nothing to do with ALS, despite highly qualified professionals telling you that you are fine. I'm not sure what else can be offered if you won't listen to a doctor or anyones advice here. We have told you in several different threads you don't have ALS. I have been down the ALS rabbit hole myself and I stopped being in it when I stopped seeking reassurance and thinking I knew more than qualified professionals.
It isn't hostility it is that there is nothing left to say to you. You aren't listening. There are no experts on ALS here, but there are some people who are pretty close to being experts on HA plays with your mind. Also some of the people here have fought the same demons as you plus many, many other ones. We sit here, read your posts and remember when we felt the same as you. That is, absolutely convinced that everyone else was wrong or missing something because we were sure we had whatever dreaded disease we feared at the time. As almost experts on how HA plays with your mind we know you don't have ALS. We also know that it is your imagination and your anxiety that is creating your symptoms. It really is very much a case of been there, done that. You say you have seen a counsellor once. I can tell you from experience that it takes months of counselling before you start to get better. You also say it helps you to come here and discuss your fears. The people here can't convince you that you don't have ALS. So maybe you should try letting them convince you that you have HA. It is pointless you being here if you won't even try.
MyNameIsTerry
17-12-16, 05:12
Josh I don't know why you are so hostile towards me. I am suffering just like the majority of people on here. As I have stated in previous posts I am getting help for the anxiety and I am post natal. I am on medication, I am seeing a psychiatrist and a cpn.
However I am crippled with intense fear. Also there can be pain. Given this foot is also the the thin one and feels unstable. Plus all the swallowing issues. I can't help that I am terrified. I have health anxiety Josh, that's why I'm here. Sorry if I seem to bother you.
Hi Fishmanpa
Thank you for responding. The thing is it's not clear tonne it's ha? I do think that some of the symptoms could be explained as anxiety but I know they are also symptoms of als. The neurologist I've since discovered is a neuro muscular specialist with 30year plus experience. I try to rationalise with myself that he knows what he is talking about and i don't but when I put food in my mouth and my tongue feels weak it's sets me off. Or when I wake up and ice cheeed my tongue. Or when I constantly clear my throat.
Or when I walk my foot is sore. Yes it gets sorer if I do these exercises but it is generally achy anyway.
Yes you are right about the posting. I have only seen the cpn once so we have not discussed this. But I was in recovery before for 2 years. And yes I was advised to stop visiting the anxiety forums and to stop posting. I was advised to stop self checking. I was advised to take the medication. Through doing these things I got well.
If you look back at my posts I think there was maybe only one in whole of 2015 and similar 2016 until recently. Since I have been off meds and post natal.
The fear is so great at the moment and it keeps gripping me as you say. I keep coming here as I feel the people on here understand and I can try to be more rational when I read people's responses.
I desperately want to believe I am ok. I desperately want my life back. I literally spend every waking hour at the moment terrified. It occupies 100percent of my thoughts x
I think that we have to be mindful of the impact of meds here.
I am taking fluoxetine again and upping it from tomorrow. I am also seeing a psychologist. Have my second app tom.
These meds can cause greatly increased levels of anxiety and tons of symptoms. Has your anxiety worsened since starting this med? And how long were you on the previous dose? Fluoxetine is a very slow med to get stable (about 4-5 weeks) and some people on the board for this med discuss how week 4-5 can bring additional new symptoms, a side effect issue noted in medical literature too, so you could even be experiencing some worsening from this. Only you can work that out as there is not enough to try to understand this in the thread.
Furthermore, there is the usual long list of side effects with this med that come with most of them and some of what you have said could easily be attributable to that but again I can't understand it because it means knowing if it was already there before you started the med.
I don't think further tests should even be offered and I'm all for doctors refusing them where they know they will be worthless. But whilst your neurologist is working on dismissing ALS, who is working on determining if this is anxiety, the meds or both? Someone needs to be doing that part to cut off the ALS route.
---------- Post added at 05:12 ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 ----------
Thanks Terry. I understand what you are saying but I have no reason to have a sore left foot in the first place.
It is the thinner one, the thinner ankle and calf and just seems less stable. So when I do the exercises it's sore.
I wake up with aches & pains all the time. There can often be no reason I can point to other than make assumptions about how I slept. And aches & pains are very common in anxiety anyway so that alone can point to a reason.
If you are right handed, you can expect your left side limbs will be weaker. This means you will also have less muscle mass in them. Everyone has this problem, try asking any professional bodybuilder how many years they have sent trying to create equal symmetry. Or ask personal trainers about how they work out training programmes for clients to address imbalances in strength that are naturally caused by a lack of equal training on both sides i.e. if you life a barbell, you will push harder with your dominant side which also means exhausting those muscles more and causing more growth in them.
HA people tend to be very sensitive to imbalances in symmetry and strength. If I take a dumbbell and press it over my head or curl it for the most times I can with my right arm (dominant) I bet you I can do it with more control and for more reps than I can with my left. To me this is all natural because I haven't trained to compensate for something that just occurs as we grow from childhood. To a HA person this can be seen as a possible problem and get linked to some form of physical problem and they chase it from there.
Back to the meds for a minute though, they can take time to help us and so it's not surprising your anxiety will at the least just keep going at the intensity it did before them, if not more intense. We have to be mindful of this and how it means you need time to work on recovery before improvements will show.
you've used the word feel so many times in this thread. feeling means jack sh*t. when you cant DO, then be worried.
How rude and utterly vile :mad:
How rude and utterly vile :mad:
Yet, 100% the truth. Feeling means nothing in ALS. No matter how many times she is told that over the months, she ignores it. So I'll take being "rude" and correct, over polite and misinformed.
Josh I've looked back at your posts form when you were terrified of als and it's like listening to a different person and seeing how kind other people were to you. I'm glad you have yourself under control. It has not been months btw. But compassion wouldn't go amiss. If my posts annoy you so much probably best that you just ignore then.
---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------
Yet, 100% the truth. Feeling means nothing in ALS. No matter how many times she is told that over the months, she ignores it. So I'll take being "rude" and correct, over polite and misinformed.
Also generally yes feeling means nothing. However there are people who had pain in their muscles. The one I have pain in is the foot and leg that looks thinner. It's also the leg that when the neuro did the clonus test on tue night, redid it. He did not do it twice to the right leg. So yes I am worried. I didn't ask him why he he did it twice to the left. I am seeing him again on Thursday and I will ask him then.
And round and round you go...
Also generally yes feeling means nothing. However there are people who had pain in their muscles. The one I have pain in is the foot and leg that looks thinner. It's also the leg that when the neuro did the clonus test on tue night, redid it. He did not do it twice to the right leg. So yes I am worried. I didn't ask him why he he did it twice to the left. I am seeing him again on Thursday and I will ask him then.
Still stuck in the rabbit hole I see :(
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7d/8b/47/7d8b474a33efb6d37a12022ab3cb777a.jpg
Positive thoughts and a shovel for ya ;)
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