Diazepam

[shazy]

Doctor has prescribed me 2mg x2 a day, but worried to take it or not, what are your guys views on it or experiences with it?

[SLA]

What are your concerns?

[shazy]

Side effects, withdrawal symptoms..

[YouRemindMeOfTheBabe]

As long as you don't take anymore than prescribed you'll be fine. I take them for sciatia, they do no harm as long as you don't abuse them. 2mg isn't much so don't worry.

[eternally optimistic]

I got prescribed these for flying. Don't take for longer than advised. I felt calm and in control. 5mg didn't make me snoozy or anything.

[Phill2]

Been on 5mg 2 x day for over 10 yrs
No probs

[Dan43]

it depends how sensetive you personally are to the Diazepam. I thought they were great at first because they relaxed me well but after taking them for a while i realised they were damaging my memory and simply just getting me high. its better to try and find anything natural if you can. Everyone knows about the problem with addiction to these tablets aswell and if your doctor refuses you any more, what kind of anxiety will that produce?. At the end of the day its your journey so try to listen to yourself and your body and what thats tellin you and youll be doing the right thing for yourself.:)

[Phill2]

St Johns Wort and brown snakes are natural but neither of those are good for you

[panic_down_under]

its better to try and find anything natural if you can

Diazepam is natural. You've been exposed to it all your life, even in the womb. It, its metabolites and lithium are the only naturally occurring psych drugs.

Benzodiazepine receptors in the brain require benzodiazepines to activate them. There are no known processes within the brain capable of producing them, and while there has been much speculation about how they might be synthesized in the body - gut flora was thought to be the most likely source - no internal mechanism has been found despite much research. So it is now generally accepted that we derive all the benzodiazepines we need exogenously, i.e. from food.

It has been known since the 1980s that plants make benzodiazepine compounds, and that it is also found in animal flesh and organs [1]. Diazepam (Valium) and its metabolites such as lorazepam (Ativan) seem particularly prevalent in plants. My guess is that benzodiazepines are a plant poison to which most life forms, including Homo sapiens, have become so adapted to that we can no longer function without them.

While the quantities we get from food are small, they are not insignificant. Benzodiazepine levels can reach pharmaceutical levels in patients with some liver diseases [2]. Levels may become so high that medical intervention is necessary [3].



References:

[1]
Muceniece R, Saleniece K, Krigere L, et al. (2008)
Potato (Solanum tuberosum) juice exerts an anticonvulsant effect in mice through binding to GABA receptors.
Planta Med. 2008 Apr;74(5):491-6. (Abstract (http://dx.doi.org/10.1055/s-2008-1074495))

Kavvadias D, Abou-Mandour AA, Czygan FC, et al (2000)
Identification of benzodiazepines in Artemisia dracunculus and Solanum tuberosum rationalizing their endogenous formation in plant tissue.
Biochem Biophys Res Commun Mar 5;269(1):290-5 (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10694515))

Sand P, Kavvadias D, Feineis D, et al. (2000)
Naturally occurring benzodiazepines: current status of research and clinical implications.
Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci vol 250(4): p 194-202 (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11009072))

Kotz U, (1991)
Occurrence of "natural" benzodiazepines.
Life Sci;48(3):209-15 (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1992279))

Unseld E, Krishna Dr Fischer C, et al (1989)
Detection of desmethyldiazepam and diazepam in brain of different species and plants.
Biochem Pharmacol Aug 1;38(15):2473-8 (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2502983))

Wildman J, Ranalder U. (1988)
Presence of lorazepam in the blood plasma of drug free rats.
Life Sci. 43(15):1257-60. (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3172979))

Wildmann J. (1988)
Increase of natural benzodiazepines in wheat and potato during germination.
Biochem Biophys Res Commun. Dec 30;157(3):1436-43. (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2849941))

Wildmann J, Vetter W, Ranalder UB, et al (1988)
Occurrence of pharmacologically active benzodiazepines in trace amounts in wheat and potato.
Biochem Pharmacol. Oct 1;37(19):3549-59. (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3178869))

Sangameswaran L, Fales HM, Friedrich P, De Blas AL. (1986)
Purification of a benzodiazepine from bovine brain and detection of benzodiazepine-like immunoreactivity in human brain
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 1986 Dec;83(23):9236-40. (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3024172) | Full text - PDF (http://www.pnas.org/content/83/23/9236.full.pdf))

[2]
Baraldi M, Avallone R, Corsi L, et al (2000) Endogenous benzodiazepines. Therapie Jan-Feb;55(1):143-6 (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10860017))

[3]
Als-Nielsen B, Gluud LL, Gluud C. (2004)
Benzodiazepine receptor antagonists for hepatic encephalopathy.
Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2004;(2):CD002798. (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15106178))

Zeneroli ML, Venturini I, Stefanelli S, et al, (1997) Antibacterial activity of rifaximin reduces the levels of benzodiazepine-like compounds in patients with liver cirrhosis. Pharmacol Res , Jun;35(6):557-60 (Abstract (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9356209))
[Note: despite the speculation in this paper, no benzodiazepine synthesizing gut flora has ever been isolated in any animal species and they almost certainly don't exist in humans]

[MyNameIsTerry]

St Johns Wort and brown snakes are natural but neither of those are good for you

I thought Brown snakes were good for stress relief in Australia, shottie owning ones that is...:winks:

[Phill2]

We had a lecturer over here talking about natural remedies and she opened a box on stage and said "The snake is missing but don't worry about it cause it's natural"
Made me laugh.

[MyNameIsTerry]

We had a lecturer over here talking about natural remedies and she opened a box on stage and said "The snake is missing but don't worry about it cause it's natural"
Made me laugh.

:D

That's what you call an icebreaker!

Crocodile Dundee said they just gave him gas. :blush:

[The G Man]

well terry ive never heard of natural benzos wow for want of a better expression i had always thought of them as being a man made chemical man i feel so uneducated :(

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------

i would just like to say i think diazepam is a wonderfull medicine im well aware of the potential for abuse hence the problem i have,my doctor wont prescibe it for such reason,to witch has become a major problem for me as its the only medicine that i feel helps me i can take 20 or 30mgs sometimes even just 5mgs and be fine for weeks at a time before i feel the need to take any again yet trying to get a doctor to understand that is near impossible and getting one 2 prescibe for me now is virtually impossible ,therefore i have had to try and source them on the internet witch is far from a good idea,does anyone else take diazepam like this IE. 1 or 2 every couple of weeks?

[pulisa]

I always find it ironic that doctors are loathe to prescribe small doses of diazepam to people who are well aware of the addiction issues yet are quite happy to prescribe ever increasing doses of (multiple) antidepressants...with the "discontinuation" risk on withdrawal.

[The G Man]

yes unfortunately that seems to b the way with the doctor,it comes down to the old ego trip as i do get the feeling there a tad miffed at the fact im asking or telling them what i know to make me feel and have a better day 2 day life but as its coming from me and not them mmmm who knows just a feeling as there quick to offer you those most wonderfull of treatments that take 4 weeks and up 2 work!

[snowghost57]

It seems to be a low dose to me. I do know they are very addictive and with drawing is difficult. If you need them to get through a crisis so be it.

My room mate takes 5mg a night to sleep. He has no problems with it. Work with your doctor and see what works for you.

[Turnaround00]

I wouldn't worry about taking 2 mgs of diazaopam. Its the smallest prescribed dose. What are you prescribed it for? Generalised anxiety? Panic attacks? Help with side effects of starting a more long term drug like an anti d? Sorry for asking just seeing if it is a short term or long term type of treatment. Even though youre not meant to take it long term, doctors do prescribe it as and when quite often and I got my hands on it quite easily.
I personally was using it for panic attacks I was getting whilst on an internship type thing. I think the pressure of knowing I had to succeed and be there everyday made me get a bit panciky. I always would have had to fight the panic before but after tryign 2mgs of diazapam I thought my life had been sorted.
It is a great drug and at 2mgs subtly took the edge off for me and if I felt a panic attack coming I would take one and it would disappear after 30 mins.
Unfortunately, I was no longer able to fight the panic without having one and it made my panic attacks seriously bad. I was probably taking 2-6 mgs mon to frid for 5 weeks when it started to backfire then and thats not a large amount so just be careful. Its such a nice drug its too easy to get attached to.
Go for it though if its only for a small while :)

[Phill2]

I wouldn't worry about taking 2 mgs of diazaopam. Its the smallest prescribed dose. What are you prescribed it for? Generalised anxiety? Panic attacks? Help with side effects of starting a more long term drug like an anti d? Sorry for asking just seeing if it is a short term or long term type of treatment. Even though youre not meant to take it long term, doctors do prescribe it as and when quite often and I got my hands on it quite easily.
I personally was using it for panic attacks I was getting whilst on an internship type thing. I think the pressure of knowing I had to succeed and be there everyday made me get a bit panciky. I always would have had to fight the panic before but after tryign 2mgs of diazapam I thought my life had been sorted.
It is a great drug and at 2mgs subtly took the edge off for me and if I felt a panic attack coming I would take one and it would disappear after 30 mins.
Unfortunately, I was no longer able to fight the panic without having one and it made my panic attacks seriously bad. I was probably taking 2-6 mgs mon to frid for 5 weeks when it started to backfire then and thats not a large amount so just be careful. Its such a nice drug its too easy to get attached to.
Go for it though if its only for a small while :)

I've been taking 5mg 2 x daily for 14 yrs without any probs

[pulisa]

Have you ever missed a dose by mistake, Phill? I just wonder what would happen if you did after so many years of regular use.

[Turnaround00]

Gosh that is a long time. Do you mind me asking what you take it for?
I think it goes without saying that you are addicted now. You may not have any problems now but if you ever decide to stop it thats when the problems will happen. Its a normal withdrawal reaction and because diazapam stays in your system for weeks and weeks withdrawal can be long and nasty....

[Phill2]

Have you ever missed a dose by mistake, Phill? I just wonder what would happen if you did after so many years of regular use.

I was originally prescribed it to ease the side effects of Lexapro and just kept it up.
They reckon that it loses it's effect over time and you have to keep increasing the dose but that has never happened to me.
I suppose the addiction aspect varies from person to person.

[pulisa]

Blimey! So no one has questioned the repeat prescriptions? My daughter has also been promised unlimited repeat prescriptions of diazepam because she has complex issues which are now considered "untreatable". I doubt whether this would be allowed to continue in the UK though and at some point some doctor would pull the plug. This is why she won't be taking them as a regular med.

If they work for you, Phill, and you don't need to increase the dose to get the same effect and it improves the quality of your life then they are doing their job. It's whatever works for you.

[panic_down_under]

I was originally prescribed it to ease the side effects of Lexapro and just kept it up.
They reckon that it loses it's effect over time and you have to keep increasing the dose but that has never happened to me.
I suppose the addiction aspect varies from person to person.

Most studies have found relatively few of those prescribed benzodiazepines (BZDs) for anxiety increase the dose over time.

BTW - there is *evidence BZDs inhibit the neurogenesis mechanism by which antidepressants work so they probably should not be taken together for long periods, but only for a few weeks to ease the common initial anxiety spike when antidepressants are first taken, or following dose increases.

* Boldrini M (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4374628/), 2014; Nochi R (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23963779), 2013; Sun Y (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23639432), 2013; Wu X (http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(09)00106-1/abstract), 2009; Stefovska VG (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18991352), 2008

[Turnaround00]

Panic down under, I too heard thst BZD's can inhibit antidepressants working, Do you know much about this? For me antidepressants have worked all my adult life but since I took diazpam for a while when they put me back on an anti d it just wasnt working. Usually yhe anti depressant wipes out all my panic attacks but it didnt work this time and I told the doctor that I was pretty sure the diazapam was involved in it.
Anyway, I was wondering if you know after stopping the diazapam can anti depressants work again in the future or have I screwed that part of my brain now?
Thank you

[panic_down_under]

Panic down under, I too heard thst BZD's can inhibit antidepressants working, Do you know much about this?

Only what I've posted. And it's not just BZDs. Alcohol and the synthetic opioid dextromethorphan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan) which is in some cold and flu remedies can too (it is also problematic because of serotonin syndrome, and probably doesn't actually work).


For me antidepressants have worked all my adult life but since I took diazpam for a while when they put me back on an anti d it just wasnt working. Usually the anti depressant wipes out all my panic attacks but it didnt work this time and I told the doctor that I was pretty sure the diazapam was involved in it.

It may well be the diazepam, but also be aware that the risk of antidepressants working may *decrease each time they are stopped and restarted and this can apply not only to the meds previously taken, but potentially all of them, although, from what I've observed a med from a different class will often work.

* Two studies, Amsterdam JD (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27805299), 2016 and Amsterdam, 2009 (http://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/226611) found the likelihood of antidepressants working drops by between 19-25% at each restart (see also: Amsterdam JD (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18694599), 2009; Leykin Y (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17469884), 2007).


Anyway, I was wondering if you know after stopping the diazapam can anti depressants work again in the future or have I screwed that part of my brain now?

The brain is a very resilient organ and many of the parts involved in anxiety/depression and med function such as receptors and transporters, even entire neurons in some brain areas, are not permanent structures so it is very difficult to permanently "screw" it.

So give antidepressants another shot without a BZD. Low dose mirtazapine is a *good alternative sedative to BZDs for controlling the initial anxiety spike when starting antidepressants, or following dose increases. It might also speed up their kick-in. The main mirtazapine issue is sedation which, unlike the BZDs, tends to continue for as long as it's taken.

* the antihistamine hydroxyzine (Vistaril) may be even better, but I understand NHS GPs probably can't/won't prescribe it.

[Phill2]

Only what I've posted. And it's not just BZDs. Alcohol and the synthetic opioid dextromethorphan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan) which is in some cold and flu remedies can too (it is also problematic because of serotonin syndrome, and probably doesn't actually work).



It may well be the diazepam, but also be aware that the risk of antidepressants working may *decrease each time they are stopped and restarted and this can apply not only to the meds previously taken, but potentially all of them, although, from what I've observed a med from a different class will often work.

* Two studies, Amsterdam JD (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27805299), 2016 and Amsterdam, 2009 (http://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/226611) found the likelihood of antidepressants working drops by between 19-25% at each restart (see also: Amsterdam JD (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18694599), 2009; Leykin Y (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17469884), 2007).



The brain is a very resilient organ and many of the parts involved in anxiety/depression and med function such as receptors and transporters, even entire neurons in some brain areas, are not permanent structures so it is very difficult to permanently "screw" it.

So give antidepressants another shot without a BZD. Low dose mirtazapine is a *good alternative sedative to BZDs for controlling the initial anxiety spike when starting antidepressants, or following dose increases. It might also speed up their kick-in. The main mirtazapine issue is sedation which, unlike the BZDs, tends to continue for as long as it's taken.

* the antihistamine hydroxyzine (Vistaril) may be even better, but I understand NHS GPs probably can't/won't prescribe it.

I haven't read any of that stuff and they work just fine together for me.
Sometimes a little knowledge can be a bad thing.

[pulisa]

I agree, Phill. Psychiatry is still mostly trial and error anyway even in this day and age.

[Turnaround00]

It makes sense though, to me anyway. If I was taking a valium each time I felt panic coming and got use to that then took an anti d but was still just using the valium each time I got the panic then maybe my brain was use to the valium and only able to work off that calm.
I dunno, all I know is that prozac hasn't stopped my anxiety this time

[Phill2]

It makes sense though, to me anyway. If I was taking a valium each time I felt panic coming and got use to that then took an anti d but was still just using the valium each time I got the panic then maybe my brain was use to the valium and only able to work off that calm.
I dunno, all I know is that prozac hasn't stopped my anxiety this time


I took one Prozac and vowed never to touch it again.
It worked too well and then dumped me really hard leaving me wanting another.
I can see how people become addicted to it.

[Turnaround00]

I find this hard to believe.
Prozac doesn't work like that. It is an SSRI so takes a few weeks to build uo in your system first then takes effect but its a gradual effect. Prozac especially has a very long half life so is one of the ones that take longer to build up in you.
Perhaps you were worryign about taking it and was overthinking things

[Phill2]

I find this hard to believe.
Prozac doesn't work like that. It is an SSRI so takes a few weeks to build uo in your system first then takes effect but its a gradual effect. Prozac especially has a very long half life so is one of the ones that take longer to build up in you.
Perhaps you were worryign about taking it and was overthinking things

Sorry
Was thinking of that really strong benzo
Can;t think of the name at the moment and I've chucked the packet