severe insomnia

[countrygirl]

I have always had sleep problems since a child, never slept well and wake alot but the one thing that always triggers my worst anxiety is when I can't fall asleep. I generally get this 2-3 times a year for week or so but with a few sleeping pills it generally goes away.

3 weeks ago a close friend died, she had cancer but was doing well but had a sudden collapse and I spent 12 hrs a day sitting by her bedside with her husband for 8 days till she passed. I was sleeping okay all this time and for most of the week after but the life returned to normal after being frantic and suddenly no matter how tired I was I just could not go to sleep and was awake literally all night. AFter 2 nights I saw GP who gave me 14 days zopiclone and I also have some nytol ( over the counter antihistamine that makes you sleepy). In the past 10 days I have only had 2 nights of natural sleep, all the other ones I have given in at 2am and taken either a zopiclone or nytol and then I sleep.

My GP has referred me to psychologist on nhs but very long wait time for appt.

I am worrying about the bad effects of taking zopiclone or nytol.
I am worrying about the bad effect on health from long term sleep loss.
I am worrying that I may never be able to sleep again without some drug.
I know this is ridiculous but can't totally get rid of the thought about that very very rare fatal disease of the brain that starts with total inability to sleep:blush:

Just wondered if anyone on here has severe sleep problems and can offer any tips advice on what they do please

[LF87]

Sorry about your friend, I hope you're doing OK.
Try not to obsess too much over not sleeping.
I had this fear a few years ago and I too went through bad insomnia. My psychologist told me you'd have to be severely severely sleep deprived for anything bad to happen to you. As in not sleeping at all for days and days on end. That won't happen to you, your body will put you into a sleep when you need it. I still use nytol occasionally, but ditched the proper sleeping tablets to see how I got on. And sure enough I slept in the end. It may have been at 6am, but I slept and eventually got back to normal. I'm not advising you don't take them if your doctor said to, but from how you're talking it's the fear of not sleeping that's making you not sleep. It's actually a known phenomena, learned insomnia I think it's called. There's some good stuff online to help you through it. If you can try to put the worry of not sleeping out of your mind, and eventually it'll go back to normal :) I had the same thing and I sleep a lot better now X

---------- Post added at 12:18 ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 ----------

https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-first-line-of-treatment-for-insomnia-thatll-surprise-you/ I found that article helpful, particularly second page with good tips :)

[MyNameIsTerry]

Countrygirl,

I'm really sorry to hear about the passing of your friend. :hugs::flowers: You've mentioned before that she had terminal lung cancer which was uncommon in her case with not being a smoker. I remember that because my GF's mother was the same. And whilst you knew this it must have been confusing for the doctors to be happy with her condition yet suddenly this changed?

I'm glad you had time to say goodbye. Despite being terminal she was still with you all for some time, better than the first prognosis milestone if I'm getting things right, so she fought on and with her being stable I hope you were all able to spend some good times together enjoying her time.

I also remember you have these bouts of insomnia and that you have your share of physical difficulties too. It's more a wonder you don't suffer insomnia more regularly under all that pressure so you are obviously doing some things right there!

You know SFI is such a rare condition, you will likely have helped others on the forum to rationalise it. Don't berate yourself for it popping up. Treat it for what it is, the subconscious saying "oooh, could it be this? Did I do good for finding a reason to think about?". That's really all it is after all. And like any intrusive thought, try not to give it importance by reacting with negative emotion, which is hard anyway given what you are going through.

Don't worry about Zopiclone side effects. It's only ever used short term to ensure no dependence developed. I would be wary of using it nightly for longer though as it's dependence is known to develop quicker than Benzodiazapenes. When I first when on the stuff the Crisis Team later told me to use it every other day but my GP prescribed it daily and for a month and I ended up building up a tolerance to it. At the time I was in a bad way (just had the breakdown and started Citalopram, which was the reason for the Crisis Team as I didn't know what was happening to me and my GP didn't understand the drug to calm me) but I weaned myself off in about 10 days. Not sleeping was a big trigger for me too.

I doubt it will come to that but I just want you to know it wasn't that hard to come off, it just meant gritting my teeth a bit and my natural sleep was reduced overall for a while after but I could cope still despite being so bad why the anxiety.

You've used them before and not needed longer doses from what I recall so there is every chance it will be the same. You know the score with insomnia, it's one that will result if you feed worry into it so distract yourself from that where possible.

I'm sure other members will be along to support you soon. You are a popular member here and have always been kind & supportive to others.

[georgewing]

Try no tot focus so much on these problems and try some meditation for sleep you can find it on youtube

[countrygirl]

Thanks everyone really appreciate it. Terry I am amazed at how much you remembered about me, and you are so right.

I was only given 14 zopiclone and haven't taken any for quite a few days but have relied on nytol instead. Nytol aren't good but I feel they have to be better than proper sleeping pills.

I totally agree that what I have is leaned insomnia. Just one night of not being able to sleep triggers my anxiety off big time then the circle begins.

I really really need to not take anything and see if I finally fall asleep even if it is 6am but I usually give in by 2am!

What I could not understand last night was that I had thought I wasn't worrying during the day because I had had a good night sleep drug free the night before but suppose subconscously I must have been worrying as in but what about tonight!!

I find usually that suddenly I will get a change of mindset and think " xxxthis I am fed up with worrying and not sleeping" and then I go back to normal.

[LF87]

Yeah I totally know what you mean. I used to start worrying that day if I was going to sleep that night, which turned it into this massively big deal when going to bed. So obviously I didn't sleep well! I talked myself into it every time. If you find yourself pondering how you'll sleep tonight just tell yourself well it doesn't matter, it's not like I'm doing brain surgery tomorrow is it? Who cares if I feel a bit tired tomorrow? That's what my CBT taught me. Unless of course you are a brain surgeon, then I take it back haha!
Take the pressure off trying to sleep. If you have a crappy sleep a few nights don't worry, it's no biggie. You'll just feel a bit rubbish the next day but you'll eventually fall back to a normal routine X

[Panic sufferer]

Sorry about your friend, I hope you're doing OK.
Try not to obsess too much over not sleeping.
I had this fear a few years ago and I too went through bad insomnia. My psychologist told me you'd have to be severely severely sleep deprived for anything bad to happen to you. As in not sleeping at all for days and days on end. That won't happen to you, your body will put you into a sleep when you need it. I still use nytol occasionally, but ditched the proper sleeping tablets to see how I got on. And sure enough I slept in the end. It may have been at 6am, but I slept and eventually got back to normal. I'm not advising you don't take them if your doctor said to, but from how you're talking it's the fear of not sleeping that's making you not sleep. It's actually a known phenomena, learned insomnia I think it's called.


Hi LF87, I am in a similar situation with average 4 hrs sleep most nights for the last fortnight after anxiety + side effects caused by an increase in strength of meds. Similar to you, often getting the majority of it after 5 or 6am. It's the $64 million question, but can I ask how long it eventually took to normalise for you?

[LF87]

Hi panic sufferer :)
I decided to drop any medication I was on, which at the time was Fluoxetine and sleeping tablets but I don't know what they were called. So I can't speak from a meds point of view to sleep problems. But without, it took me couple of months to get back into a normal pattern. I still wake up during the night but fall quickly back to sleep, but I was like that before anxiety problems. And I still have silly o clock nights where I can't switch off. But I have learned through CBT not to worry too much about not sleeping well, because you induce a pressure on yourself to get to sleep. This causes anxiety and the hormones that come with it which keep us awake. It just takes some time to get back into a normal for yourself. Mine was having a nice shower and reading before bed, and not freaking out if I couldn't sleep right away. X

[Panic sufferer]

thanks! Tbh, just knowing you were in a similar position and it came good gives me hope.

When it started i reacted badly because although I was never a heavy sleeper, I've not had insomnia previously. As in, maybe twice a year I might have a sleepless night, but consecutive nights, never. I agree completely that freaking out about not sleeping induces sleeplessness, which then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It's just hard to keep that perspective at 4 in the morning....!

[LF87]

Are they totally sleepless nights? Or do you manage sleep at a silly time like 4-6am? Because I used to panic when it started getting to 3ish, thinking oh no I've got to be up in 4 hours! But what I realised was I will sleep eventually, even if it is just for two or three hours. I think the realisation that they won't be completely sleepless nights helped me. Even though it's not ideal, my fear of having ZERO sleep disappeared over time as I knew I would eventually drift off. This in turn helped me get over the pressure of trying to sleep.
It is truly horrendous though I know, when bedtime becomes a stressor instead of a relax. But I am confident it'll get better for you (both) over time, when you realise habits or routines that might be unhelpful x

[countrygirl]

Great advice. I got into such a panic and dread yesterday evening, very tired but also obsessed with not sleeping and of course was still awake an hour after going to bed so took a zopiclone, I was asleep before it could have worked properly! I am even getting into panic within a second of waking up worrying about the fact I had to take a pill once again.

I need to break the cycle of getting into such a panic if I don't go straight to sleep and worrying about taking any pills. My husband says I need a plan and stick to it, this has helped me in the past when I have been panicking about physical symptoms.

So for next few nights I will only take nytol if I am not asleep by 2am. Then I will try and do alternate nights even if it means I spend a whole night awake ( this is what I do as I am so anxious my mind can overcome the need to sleep) knowing that I will get sleep the next night with pills.

I see my Gp again next Wednesday and would like to be able to say I am at least trying!

I realise that this insomnia is just another aspect of health anxiety, obsessing about a symptom with severe anxiety.

[LF87]

Yeah that sounds like a good plan. Although I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the 2am thing, cos you're kind of giving yourself a countdown which for me I think would make me anxious. My psychologist actually told me to hide all the clocks at night, and not to check my phone for the time either. And I've also read that same advice on many insomnia pages. Realising the time immediately provokes panic that you're not asleep, then the oh my God it's so late comes on, why am I not asleep! Then I found I'd be awake even longer. Not knowing the time took the pressure off for me, and I still do that now if I can't sleep because I know the anxiety hole it provokes. Maybe give that a try if the other fails? X

[Panic sufferer]

Are they totally sleepless nights? Or do you manage sleep at a silly time like 4-6am? Because I used to panic when it started getting to 3ish, thinking oh no I've got to be up in 4 hours! But what I realised was I will sleep eventually, even if it is just for two or three hours. I think the realisation that they won't be completely sleepless nights helped me. Even though it's not ideal, my fear of having ZERO sleep disappeared over time as I knew I would eventually drift off. This in turn helped me get over the pressure of trying to sleep.


Hi LF87, they weren't totally sleepless, I would usually get 3-4 hrs sleep in patches between 4am & 8am.

Incidentally, I don't know if you have some special power transmitted over the internet, but last night after reading this thread, I slept thru from 2.30 to 9.30, longest uninterrupted sleep I've had for about a month! The power of NMP!!!
:D

[LF87]

Ahh that's excellent! Bet you're feeling nice and refreshed.
Hopefully the start of many uninterrupted sleeps! Just remember not to be disheartened if you do have some interrupted ones, because those good sleeps are just around the corner :) x

[countrygirl]

LF thanks for that.

[LF87]

No worries - let me know how you get on.

[Panic sufferer]

Countrygirl, how did you get on re: sleep? Did the Nytol help?