View Full Version : Trying to think rationally but struggling
I know I shouldn't be posting this as I'm really trying to overcome this current episode of HA.
My current fear is bowel cancer, this fear has been coming up a few times over the last 12 years. This episode has been ongoing for 6 months now. I have had ins for about 27 years now and it's normally manageable. I know it's linked to certain food and stress. I'm also premenopausal which can cause increased anxiety and ins symptoms.
My stools have been loose on and off over the last few months, I have had normal stools I between aswell. I've had diarrhoea about 12 times over this time too. Usually just once or twice and then it's fine. I panic everytime it happens. I start to think I'm feeling better then my stomach will play up and I'm back to square one again.
My rational mind tells me that if it was something sinister then it would stay like that all the time and not go back to normal but of course my irrational mind doesn't agree.
So tired of this, I really am trying to beat this but it's so hard. I'm barely eating as I'm scared of upsetting my stomach. I'm hungry but can't make my set eat, not sure if the lack of food is making things worse.
Sorry this is so long, had to write it all down.
---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------
Ibs*
---------- Post added at 11:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------
Any tips on how to remain calm? I have my art therapy appointment at 1 and feel like cancelling as I feel very shaky and scared at the thought of going out.
ServerError
22-02-17, 12:02
My advice? Look at your join date. In all these years, has anything you've worried about turned into anything?
Don't avoid your art therapy class unless you want to feed your anxiety further.
You have IBS. At worst, you have a stomach upset of some kind. You could go to a doctor about these symptoms because they can be treated, but they aren't anything to worry about.
IBS notoriously flares up at times of high stress, and also when there's a change in diet.
It would only be logical to assume, surely, that this is what's causing these issues, rather than some horrific illness.
My advice? Look at your join date. In all these years, has anything you've worried about turned into anything?
Don't avoid your art therapy class unless you want to feed your anxiety further.
You have IBS. At worst, you have a stomach upset of some kind. You could go to a doctor about these symptoms because they can be treated, but they aren't anything to worry about.
Thanks for your reply,
I just need to keep rationalizing these thoughts but when the fear hits me it's a huge task. I look back at my old posts and this has happened before, you would think that would be enough to calm my mind. Going to go to art therapy but extremely nervous about leaving the house.
---------- Post added at 12:17 ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 ----------
IBS notoriously flares up at times of high stress, and also when there's a change in diet.
It would only be logical to assume, surely, that this is what's causing these issues, rather than some horrific illness.
My rational mind know that the anxiety is probably causing my ibs to flare up but of course the anxiety is trying to tell me different.
ServerError
22-02-17, 12:28
Leaving the house is not the problem here. The problem is your anxious state, which is manifesting as a fear of leaving the house. The only solution is to accept that fear, and do it anyway. You can do it, I assure you.
I hope you're receiving some help (aside from art therapy) for your anxiety. You've obviously suffered for a long time, but you don't have to continue to do so indefinitely.
Leaving the house is not the problem here. The problem is your anxious state, which is manifesting as a fear of leaving the house. The only solution is to accept that fear, and do it anyway. You can do it, I assure you.
I hope you're receiving some help (aside from art therapy) for your anxiety. You've obviously suffered for a long time, but you don't have to continue to do so indefinitely.
I went to art therapy! I worry when I go out that I'll have an upset stomach and that's why I feel safer at home. I feel exposed when I'm out.
I'm not actually receiving any other therapy. I've had cbt in the past which has helped. The waiting times to see anyone is about 18 months so there's not going to be a quick fix.
ServerError
22-02-17, 15:07
I went to art therapy! I worry when I go out that I'll have an upset stomach and that's why I feel safer at home. I feel exposed when I'm out.
I'm not actually receiving any other therapy. I've had cbt in the past which has helped. The waiting times to see anyone is about 18 months so there's not going to be a quick fix.
Yeah, waiting times can be long. It's a massive flaw. But if I were you, I'd get on the list and look for alternative sources of help in the meantime. There's CBT resources online - not necessarily ideal, but better than nothing.
As for your fear of leaving the house, it's classic anxious thought about losing control. In your case, it's currently manifesting as a fear of stomach upsets, but the actual content of the worry doesn't really matter. What matters is that your mind tells you you might lose control if you leave the house, and that staying in is safer. The problem is that, while staying in might alleviate anxiety in the short term, it will be disastrous in the long term because you'll feed your mind the idea that outside equals danger and inside equals safe.
In other words, seek help, check out some online CBT resources, don't allow yourself to retreat from the world.
Yeah, waiting times can be long. It's a massive flaw. But if I were you, I'd get on the list and look for alternative sources of help in the meantime. There's CBT resources online - not necessarily ideal, but better than nothing.
As for your fear of leaving the house, it's classic anxious thought about losing control. In your case, it's currently manifesting as a fear of stomach upsets, but the actual content of the worry doesn't really matter. What matters is that your mind tells you you might lose control if you leave the house, and that staying in is safer. The problem is that, while staying in might alleviate anxiety in the short term, it will be disastrous in the long term because you'll feed your mind the idea that outside equals danger and inside equals safe.
In other words, seek help, check out some online CBT resources, don't allow yourself to retreat from the world.
I am going to look online for cbt for just now but talking to someone really helps.
I manage to take my son to school and I work part-time but I can't go into town, I get so scared.
MyNameIsTerry
22-02-17, 15:47
Rainbow,
Sadly with you being in Scotland your NHS is long behind us with mental health and the online CBT we can get probably isn't available on the NHS at lower levels for quicker access. You guys are on the old model like we were 10 years ago and waiting times were over a year in my area (still are but that's for the equivalent service to yours, we can use IAPT now which is quicker).
NHS Scotland need to be doing more!!!
I do know of a free no commitment online CBT course that is supported called Panic Center. It's Canadian but anyone can join and it has a small forum to support the course which the company running It lead so it's not so much just members talking. I've heard it's good and with it being free, it might be worth a look.
There are free online CBT workbooks for various anxiety disorders or elements of them through a couple of sites I know of. Just ask if you want a link.
Well done on going. Your anxiety can try and stop you going out, working, etc but then you have to face the anxiety of starting to get back out. Both in my initial breakdown and my later relapse it caused me to retreat this way. If you can keep getting out, it's better.
ServerError
22-02-17, 16:06
I am going to look online for cbt for just now but talking to someone really helps.
I manage to take my son to school and I work part-time but I can't go into town, I get so scared.
You can go into town. I promise you. That fear is a misdirected warning that you don't actually need. Maybe go for a coffee for an hour with a friend.
It's up to you ultimately, but I guarantee you, you can do it.
Oh, and just so you know, I've been where you are. I know how it feels. Please don't think I'm saying it's easy. I know it's not.
Its not necessarily about thinking rationally, but recognizing irrational thoughts as they occur, and just letting them go.
I've been doing a lot of this lately. You can't completely change the way you think, but you can change how you react to those thoughts...
Rainbow,
Sadly with you being in Scotland your NHS is long behind us with mental health and the online CBT we can get probably isn't available on the NHS at lower levels for quicker access. You guys are on the old model like we were 10 years ago and waiting times were over a year in my area (still are but that's for the equivalent service to yours, we can use IAPT now which is quicker).
NHS Scotland need to be doing more!!!
I do know of a free no commitment online CBT course that is supported called Panic Center. It's Canadian but anyone can join and it has a small forum to support the course which the company running It lead so it's not so much just members talking. I've heard it's good and with it being free, it might be worth a look.
There are free online CBT workbooks for various anxiety disorders or elements of them through a couple of sites I know of. Just ask if you want a link.
Well done on going. Your anxiety can try and stop you going out, working, etc but then you have to face the anxiety of starting to get back out. Both in my initial breakdown and my later relapse it caused me to retreat this way. If you can keep getting out, it's better.
I've had a quick look at panic center, looks interesting. The problem with going out is that I get really worried about my stomach playing up and if I get any twinges or sensations in my stomach I start to panic. I don't know why I manage at work, though I do have moments of panic when I'm there.
I'm also worried about the fact that I'm scared to eat, the past couple of days I''ve hardly eaten anything. My 25 years old daughter has anxiety and wants me to go to her gp with her as she wants me to speak for her but I can't do it. I feel so bad for letting her down.
---------- Post added at 17:48 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------
Its not necessarily about thinking rationally, but recognizing irrational thoughts as they occur, and just letting them go.
I've been doing a lot of this lately. You can't completely change the way you think, but you can change how you react to those thoughts...
How can I change the way I react? The fear washes over me and I can't stop it.
---------- Post added at 17:50 ---------- Previous post was at 17:48 ----------
You can go into town. I promise you. That fear is a misdirected warning that you don't actually need. Maybe go for a coffee for an hour with a friend.
It's up to you ultimately, but I guarantee you, you can do it.
Oh, and just so you know, I've been where you are. I know how it feels. Please don't think I'm saying it's easy. I know it's not.
Thank you for understanding,
I want to start living again, doing the things I've always enjoyed but it seems impossible atm.
Rainbow, you manage to work part time which is a lot of hours when the potential for panic is high. How do you manage to get through these hours with just a few episodes of panic which you obviously manage successfully? Is it because you are distracted by the work or because you feel that you are in a safe environment? I'm just guessing here. I think you do remarkably well to hold down a job under the circumstances.
---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:07 ----------
Its not necessarily about thinking rationally, but recognizing irrational thoughts as they occur, and just letting them go.
I've been doing a lot of this lately. You can't completely change the way you think, but you can change how you react to those thoughts...
I very much agree with SLA here. Don't over-concentrate on being rational but learn to recognise what isn't rational?
ServerError
22-02-17, 19:32
I want to start living again, doing the things I've always enjoyed but it seems impossible atm.
I'm just going to keep coming back at you with this. It may seem impossible, but that's a trick of the anxious mind. Anxiety can't stop you doing anything. You absolutely can start living again. Any time you steel yourself to do so, you can do it.
This time last year, my legs would turn to jelly as soon as my feet hit the concrete outside my house. My head would go woozy and I'd want to rush back inside. I would feel on the verge of imminent collapse any time I walked outside. Once I actually found out about anxiety and came across somebody who explained what was happening and that I could do anything I wanted even with these feelings, I lost my fear of it. I still had the symptoms, but I was able to go out and do what I wanted anyway. It took time for the symptoms to go away, but I retrained my brain not fear the outside world by getting out into it, no matter how I felt.
Rainbow, you manage to work part time which is a lot of hours when the potential for panic is high. How do you manage to get through these hours with just a few episodes of panic which you obviously manage successfully? Is it because you are distracted by the work or because you feel that you are in a safe environment? I'm just guessing here. I think you do remarkably well to hold down a job under the circumstances.
---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:07 ----------
I very much agree with SLA here. Don't over-concentrate on being rational but learn to recognise what isn't rational?
I work on a checkout in asda, I work 2 evenings and a Sunday during the day. I'm usually a lot calmer in the evenings for some reason which makes it easier to work. Although I am distracted with work my mind is constantly going over the same things, symptoms, statistics, intrusive thoughts. There's hardly any let up at all.
The thing is I know when I'm being irrational and I can think rationally but there is a never-ending battle in my head between the two.
---------- Post added at 20:59 ---------- Previous post was at 20:57 ----------
I'm just going to keep coming back at you with this. It may seem impossible, but that's a trick of the anxious mind. Anxiety can't stop you doing anything. You absolutely can start living again. Any time you steel yourself to do so, you can do it.
This time last year, my legs would turn to jelly as soon as my feet hit the concrete outside my house. My head would go woozy and I'd want to rush back inside. I would feel on the verge of imminent collapse any time I walked outside. Once I actually found out about anxiety and came across somebody who explained what was happening and that I could do anything I wanted even with these feelings, I lost my fear of it. I still had the symptoms, but I was able to go out and do what I wanted anyway. It took time for the symptoms to go away, but I retrained my brain not fear the outside world by getting out into it, no matter how I felt.
I'm sorry you went through such a hard time, it must have been awful. I'm going to try to push myself to get out of my comfort zone, I know it's gonna be hard but I owe it to my family.
Anxiety is high today, didn't even manage to get my son to school, I feel guilty and worthless!
MyNameIsTerry
23-02-17, 13:03
These things happen, rainbow. I've let people down in mine and you kick yourself for it afterwards. That is natural but try not to let it rule you today and make it bigger for the next day. We all make mistakes and let people down at some point in our lives and trying to push through all that anxiety is hardly what many people have to face yet they still let people down.
Try to accept it. It's a lesson learned. And then do things to take yourself out of the ficus, maybe have some time making your son happy?
Tomorrow is another day and we try again.
ServerError
23-02-17, 13:14
Yeah, give yourself a break. Accept that you're currently experiencing mental health difficulties that affect your ability to fully function. Feelings of blame and worthlessness are just more lies your anxious mind tells you. I guarantee you that you're doing your best for your son and for yourself.
These things happen, rainbow. I've let people down in mine and you kick yourself for it afterwards. That is natural but try not to let it rule you today and make it bigger for the next day. We all make mistakes and let people down at some point in our lives and trying to push through all that anxiety is hardly what many people have to face yet they still let people down.
Try to accept it. It's a lesson learned. And then do things to take yourself out of the ficus, maybe have some time making your son happy?
Tomorrow is another day and we try again.
Unfortunately this has happened a few times recently which isn't good for him at all. I get scared and don't want to move from my safe place on the couch.
My art therapist thinks I'm addicted to looking things up on y phone, which I agree with. My aim this week is to not look at it in the morning before school. I asked her if she thought that I was putting my life at risk by not seeing my gp and asking for tests, she said no. My session with her yesterday resulted in me crying through the whole appt. Was at work last night and had to leave early because I was so emotional. So scared that I becoming deeply depressed.
---------- Post added at 13:35 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------
Yeah, give yourself a break. Accept that you're currently experiencing mental health difficulties that affect your ability to fully function. Feelings of blame and worthlessness are just more lies your anxious mind tells you. I guarantee you that you're doing your best for your son and for yourself.
Thank you, I just feel like a useless parent atm. I don't want to move or do anything, I'm so emotionally exhausted.
MyNameIsTerry
23-02-17, 15:55
Addiction & compulsion are often thought of as similiar but there is a dividing line. Addiction is about reward seeking, compulsion is about mitigation/prevention of feared outcome.
Addictions like gambling are reward seeking hence they are not categorised inside the neurotic disorders category that contains anxiety disorders, mood disorders like depression, etc.
The gambler gets a "high" from it, Dopamine release. The compulsive gets relief, theoretically as it doesn't always do much from my experience (which will be a different chemical).
Are you Googling your symptoms? Looking for others in the same boat to compare? Scaring yourself by looking up symptoms then focusing on the worst case scenario and being triggered further? This is all classic anxiety behaviour.
I wonder whether your therapist was just trying to use plain terms rather than get into the jargon?
Yes, it's not good for your son and the school might take note at some point but I'm sure they will be supportive. But have you missed a few and taken him to the others before & after these days? If so, then it's perhaps less of the deterioration you fear because you are still finding the strength and exercising your will because you could have easily retreated on every occasion from the initially triggering day (I did this and let it take me downhill). If you can keep doing most, you are fighting back and taking control.
On the days you didn't take him, did something make them worse than the rest?
Addiction & compulsion are often thought of as similiar but there is a dividing line. Addiction is about reward seeking, compulsion is about mitigation/prevention of feared outcome.
Addictions like gambling are reward seeking hence they are not categorised inside the neurotic disorders category that contains anxiety disorders, mood disorders like depression, etc.
The gambler gets a "high" from it, Dopamine release. The compulsive gets relief, theoretically as it doesn't always do much from my experience (which will be a different chemical).
Are you Googling your symptoms? Looking for others in the same boat to compare? Scaring yourself by looking up symptoms then focusing on the worst case scenario and being triggered further? This is all classic anxiety behaviour.
I wonder whether your therapist was just trying to use plain terms rather than get into the jargon?
Yes, it's not good for your son and the school might take note at some point but I'm sure they will be supportive. But have you missed a few and taken him to the others before & after these days? If so, then it's perhaps less of the deterioration you fear because you are still finding the strength and exercising your will because you could have easily retreated on every occasion from the initially triggering day (I did this and let it take me downhill). If you can keep doing most, you are fighting back and taking control.
On the days you didn't take him, did something make them worse than the rest?
I understand what you mean about addiction and compulsion and I did think it strange that my therapist said addiction rather than compulsion. I know it's compulsion that's making me looks at things on the net. And, yes I am googling symptoms and other people's experiences and mostly I end up scaring myself and imagining the worst case scenarios.
It's usually when my anxiety is particularly high that I find it hard to take my son to school. It diet help that he hates school and I have a struggle with him most days, he cries and says he wants to stay with me. When he's like this a d my anxiety is high it's easier to keep him at home.
---------- Post added at 16:41 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------
Doesn't*
This is only significant if it becomes a habit. Your son could also be unwittingly picking up ways of getting off school by playing on your anxiety..
Do you get any pay off at all by googling symptoms and comparing "notes" with fellow sufferers? If you didn't google what would you do instead?
This is only significant if it becomes a habit. Your son could also be unwittingly picking up ways of getting off school by playing on your anxiety..
Do you get any pay off at all by googling symptoms and comparing "notes" with fellow sufferers? If you didn't google what would you do instead?
I'm going to try to make sure I always get him to school. My son has anxiety issues as well and he could be playing on my anxiety.
I know googling isn't helping, it's keeping me in a perpetual cycle of short lived relief but then even more fear. If I wast sitting googling all day I'd probably be going out to town with my daughter or reading.
I'm on my break at work just now, I had a bit of an upset stomach not long after I got into work. Trying not to let it get me down, I felt like asking to go home but I'm managing to just hang on.
ServerError
23-02-17, 20:24
If I wast sitting googling all day I'd probably be going out to town with my daughter or reading.
This sentence is pretty huge, in my opinion. You've basically summed up your problem in a few short words, probably without realising. There's nothing about going to town or reading that you should avoid. It's up to you to start breaking the hold this anxiety has over you. It tends to be a bit of a journey with ups and downs, but you can do it.
Personally I feel that googling has become a habit/ritual which you now feel powerless to stop but the fact that you would actually be going into town with your daughter if you weren't trapped in the google cycle speaks volumes and is really positive in terms of you being able and prepared to challenge your HA
I miss doing these things, a huge part of my life has gone along with a huge part of myself. I want to force myself to do these things and sometimes I feel like I can but when it comes to it I get scared and panicky and I know there's a high chance of an upset stomach.
I miss doing these things, a huge part of my life has gone along with a huge part of myself. I want to force myself to do these things and sometimes I feel like I can but when it comes to it I get scared and panicky and I know there's a high chance of an upset stomach.
If an upset stomach is the worst case scenario, is it worth it to at least try to push through?
Positive thoughts
MyNameIsTerry
23-02-17, 23:59
That's the classic reassurance seeking behaviour then. That's a known form of compulsive activity.
Beating obsessive behaviour gets easier if you can reduce compulsive reactions to it, I found. It dialled it down from fever pitch where you feel completely trapped by it.
This means facing the building anxiety that comes from resistance. There are various ways to do this and it can be achieved through gradual elimination, which means slowly removing it. An element of not allowing yourself too much time to be sitting around thinking can be useful as well as learning to sit & tolerate it. The latter is not always practical for longer periods of time e.g. doing endless Mindfulness, just inserting sensible "blocks" of time for such activities is enough otherwise anything initially healthy can become unhealthy if it becomes obsessive again.
If you resist, the tension builds but how long have you tried to resist for? It can reduce after a certain period of time, but it is hard.
It makes sense that the days you've been unable to go, the anxiety had been worse. This still shows you can take control on the other days, that's a good thing add it shows your anxiety isn't constantly triggered to It's highest. I don't know whether this means reducing the heights it can reach through changing how you react to those triggers or reducing your overall anxiety levels so that the triggers have less impact on you. There could be gains available in either.
If an upset stomach is the worst case scenario, is it worth it to at least try to push through?
Positive thoughts
Does an upset stomach mean cancer to you or is more the unpredictability of needing to find a loo asap?
Does an upset stomach mean cancer to you or is more the unpredictability of needing to find a loo asap?
Yes an upset stomach does mean cancer in my mind, so I don't want to go out because if my stomach gets upset when I'm out I worry that I'll panic and it will ruin the day for my daughter. It's easier just to stay in.
My son's at school today although I didn't have to go out as he was given a lift to school. He was really unhappy that I wasn't taking him so I feel really guilty about that.
I want to try mindfulness but my mind keeps wandering back to my worries. I really am trying to beat this but it's so much more difficult this time. When I had the same worry 6 years ago it went on for about 5/6 months and only started to improve after I went on holiday to Turkey with my family. That was a turning point for me as I had to get involved with living, had to go out and do things, didn't have time for googling and I was more relaxed and happy. I wish I could just be normal!
Have to go out to pick my son up soon and the anxiety is horrendous, I feel so scared
ServerError
24-02-17, 14:50
Have to go out to pick my son up soon and the anxiety is horrendous, I feel so scared
You will feel scared. You have an untreated anxiety disorder. You must challenge those feelings. Really examine them. Try to see the other side. And whatever you do, make sure you go, whatever you feel. The problem is not with the need to pick your son up. The problem is with the disorder you currently suffer from.
You will feel scared. You have an untreated anxiety disorder. You must challenge those feelings. Really examine them. Try to see the other side. And whatever you do, make sure you go, whatever you feel. The problem is not with the need to pick your son up. The problem is with the disorder you currently suffer from.
Thank you, everything you're saying makes so much sense.
I picked my son up from school, I did feel anxious and couldn't wait to get back home. My other is now surrounding eating, it's got to the point that I'm scared to eat I case I have an upset stomach. I've hardly eaten anything for the last week. Barely 700 calories a day. I do feel hungry but I'm scared.
Lack of food and low blood sugar will make you feel even more shaky and panicky. You need to eat. You haven't got cancer and if you get an upset stomach it doesn't matter and isn't significant. You need to help yourself now in order to get better?
ServerError
24-02-17, 16:29
Again, your untreated anxiety disorder causes you to equate eating with stomach upsets. It's certainly true that some foods can upset the digestive system more than others, but it's still not harmful. The vast majority of stomach issues are caused by diet, transient infections that may or may not need very straightforward treatment, or anxiety.
The stomach is directly connected to the brain. It also has similar cells and receptors. It's the most responsive organ in the human body to your state of mind - more so even than the heart, and we all know how easily anxiety gets that going. The point is, while you continue on with an untreated anxiety disorder, you're likely to have stomach problems. The more fear you inject, the worse your anxiety will get and the worse your stomach will probably feel.
Again, your untreated anxiety disorder causes you to equate eating with stomach upsets. It's certainly true that some foods can upset the digestive system more than others, but it's still not harmful. The vast majority of stomach issues are caused by diet, transient infections that may or may not need very straightforward treatment, or anxiety.
The stomach is directly connected to the brain. It also has similar cells and receptors. It's the most responsive organ in the human body to your state of mind - more so even than the heart, and we all know how easily anxiety gets that going. The point is, while you continue on with an untreated anxiety disorder, you're likely to have stomach problems. The more fear you inject, the worse your anxiety will get and the worse your stomach will probably feel.
The problem is the long waiting lists for cbt, around 18 months here. I'll have wasted away by then!
I am hungry but I'm so scared to eat much and I'm eating less and less every day. Maybe this is causing some of the stomach upsets, I don't know. What can I do to stop the fear when it starts though?
Feel the fear and do it anyway
Kathryn313
24-02-17, 20:41
Can you go private for some initial CBT? 18 months is a long time to wait!
Feel the fear and do it anyway
Yeah need to try that or I'll never get better.
---------- Post added at 21:41 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------
Can you go private for some initial CBT? 18 months is a long time to wait!
Unfortunately I don't have the funds to go private.
Kathryn313
24-02-17, 21:50
Is there a way to access treatment earlier than 18 month? did the referral go in?
There are free downloadable CBT courses. CBT4PANIC is one of them. When I was in therapy for some depression after my illnesses, I downloaded the course (it was free at the time here on NMP). While some of it didn't apply, a lot did. My therapist was all for it. It was hard work and you really have focus and discipline yourself but it was SO helpful. Not only that, some of the techniques I still use to this day as it helps with everyday work and life situations.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain! Get on the waiting list and then find a free course or worksheets to download and use.
Positive thoughts
Is there a way to access treatment earlier than 18 month? did the referral go in?
I haven't been to see my gp about this, I've been speaking to my art therapist and she told me the waiting list is really long. 18 months is too long to wait.
---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------
There are free downloadable CBT courses. CBT4PANIC is one of them. When I was in therapy for some depression after my illnesses, I downloaded the course (it was free at the time here on NMP). While some of it didn't apply, a lot did. My therapist was all for it. It was hard work and you really have focus and discipline yourself but it was SO helpful. Not only that, some of the techniques I still use to this day as it helps with everyday work and life situations.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain! Get on the waiting list and then find a free course or worksheets to download and use.
Positive thoughts
I had a look at the cbt4 panic and there is a charge for it. I am better having someone to talk to face to face.
I had a look at the cbt4 panic and there is a charge for it. I am better having someone to talk to face to face.
Yes, and it's a nominal fee BUT there are "free" courses! Google "free CBT Courses Online" (that's actually a great reason to Google!) You may be better talking face to face BUT there are worksheets that will help! Don't make excuses. You need to do something... anything as opposed to nothing and allowing this to consume you. Do it for your family and do it for yourself. At least try :yesyes:
Positive thoughts
MyNameIsTerry
25-02-17, 04:48
Is there a way to access treatment earlier than 18 month? did the referral go in?
It's Scotland, they don't have IAPT up there so are on the old CMHT referrals we used to be. It was a minimum 12 months for me before IAPT and it still was a few years back.
CMHT's are there for more severe conditions. They treat people in far worse states so trying to gain priority is going to be hard.
---------- Post added at 04:48 ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 ----------
I haven't been to see my gp about this, I've been speaking to my art therapist and she told me the waiting list is really long. 18 months is too long to wait.
---------- Post added at 22:10 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------
I had a look at the cbt4 panic and there is a charge for it. I am better having someone to talk to face to face.
They started charging for CBT4PANIC in mid 2015. It's a one off fed but it's still a course fee.
If you go with them I suggest you ask if it is a "supported" course. According to the NHS & NICE, supported online CBT has clinical evidence to suggest it can be as effective is face-to-face CBT. The support is normally via email. If it doesn't, it is seen as having no clinical evidence currently. I know the author makes some bold claims about it being as good but the evidence reviewed was of other mainstream online programmes that the NHS refer too, not this one. I think his claims may be a little suspect because of this but if he confirmed it was supported, it would make it closer to the clinical evidence (and he is well qualified).
I can give you a link to some good free online workbooks.
I'm not sure what the evidence was but I suspect it is Mild-Moderate anxiety because these programmes sit at Level 2 in the NICE Stepped Care Model which is the first access point and prior to real CBT therapy.
They may help you. Even if it's just a little, it's better than nothing.
Even if you do sign up for any form of online therapy I think you have to be prepared to reassess your mindset that in you an upset stomach equals bowel cancer
Even if you do sign up for any form of online therapy I think you have to be prepared to reassess your mindset that in you an upset stomach equals bowel cancer
I agree with you on that but the problem is that I've been having stomach issues for 6 months now since the anxiety started. Normally having an upset stomach wouldn't bother me because having ibs it's something that I'm used to. I know it's probably the anxiety that's causing it all as I was having no issues before the anxiety kicked in. My bowels have been my main thought every single minute every day since this started. I've had about 12 episodes of diarrhoea in 6 months and it freaks me out because everything you read about bowel cancer it's says persistent diarrhoea is a sign of it.
I honestly do want to get over this but it's so hard this time.
12 episodes of diarrhoea in 6 months is not persistent diarrhoea though.
---------- Post added at 09:00 ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 ----------
My daughter is currently going through a severe anxiety episode and has had persistent diarrhoea for the last 2 weeks and more. Every day. More than once a day. Along with all the other physical symptoms she is getting it's going to mean an IBS flare-up.
12 episodes of diarrhoea in 6 months is not persistent diarrhoea though.
---------- Post added at 09:00 ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 ----------
My daughter is currently going through a severe anxiety episode and has had persistent diarrhoea for the last 2 weeks and more. Every day. More than once a day. Along with all the other physical symptoms she is getting it's going to mean an IBS flare-up.
I know, I try to tell myself that but all these thoughts come rushing in. This all started because I thought I saw blood when I wiped but I'm pretty sure it was from a pasta sauce that I had. I'be noticed it other times over the years and it didn't bother me but this time my brain latched onto it and I've been having bowel issues ever since. As I'm barely eating I know this will be having an adverse reaction on my digestion. I have all the reasoning for my symptoms but the HA always has a "what if" voice going on in my head.
Has your daughter been diagnosed with ibs? I'm sorry she's been having a hard time lately.
Yes but she's also on the autistic spectrum and has severe anxiety, OCD and depression so IBS comes as an additional "extra". For her it's just part and parcel of the whole anxiety "package". My bowel goes the other way and stops. Anxiety plays a big part in levels of peristalsis in the bowel.
Yes but she's also on the autistic spectrum and has severe anxiety, OCD and depression so IBS comes as an additional "extra". For her it's just part and parcel of the whole anxiety "package". My bowel goes the other way and stops. Anxiety plays a big part in levels of peristalsis in the bowel.
It must be a big worry for you, I hope she feels better soon.
I know that my heightened state of anxiety will be impacting on my stomach but even knowing that I can't shake the fear and I'm worried that because I haven't seen my gp about this that I'm being very stupid and it'll be my fault for dying and leaving my kids without a mother. These thoughts haunt me every day.
---------- Post added at 12:48 ---------- Previous post was at 12:44 ----------
It's Scotland, they don't have IAPT up there so are on the old CMHT referrals we used to be. It was a minimum 12 months for me before IAPT and it still was a few years back.
CMHT's are there for more severe conditions. They treat people in far worse states so trying to gain priority is going to be hard.
---------- Post added at 04:48 ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 ----------
They started charging for CBT4PANIC in mid 2015. It's a one off fed but it's still a course fee.
If you go with them I suggest you ask if it is a "supported" course. According to the NHS & NICE, supported online CBT has clinical evidence to suggest it can be as effective is face-to-face CBT. The support is normally via email. If it doesn't, it is seen as having no clinical evidence currently. I know the author makes some bold claims about it being as good but the evidence reviewed was of other mainstream online programmes that the NHS refer too, not this one. I think his claims may be a little suspect because of this but if he confirmed it was supported, it would make it closer to the clinical evidence (and he is well qualified).
I can give you a link to some good free online workbooks.
I'm not sure what the evidence was but I suspect it is Mild-Moderate anxiety because these programmes sit at Level 2 in the NICE Stepped Care Model which is the first access point and prior to real CBT therapy.
They may help you. Even if it's just a little, it's better than nothing.
I would really appreciate it if you could give me a link to some online workbooks, thank you.
---------- Post added at 15:40 ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 ----------
Upset stomach again today, trying to stay rational and equate it to my anxiety/ibs but it's really difficult.
ServerError
25-02-17, 16:07
How long have you had stomach issues? You signed up to this site in 2014, so you've had anxiety for a long time. I bet you've had stomach issues for a fair while too. If it was anything serious, things would have deteriorated a while ago.
I've had ibs for about 24 years or so. I joined this site in 2004. I've always been anxious, even as a child. I'm just so freaked out with this intermittent diarrhoea and loose stools over the last 6 months, although I have had normal stools inbetween. Tired of the constant worry and anxiety.
MyNameIsTerry
25-02-17, 16:49
Intermittent feeds right into IBS and anxiety. I bet it doesn't in the cancer you fear as that would be growing and symptoms would only worsen?
I found getting more probiotics did help with my digestion. I've been eating worse since Xmas, I need to get back to healthier stuff, and it has given lots of toilet irregularity.
---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------
The modules are here:
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/infopax.cfm?Info_ID=53
On this one if you scroll below the worksheets you will see CCI mentioned, which is where I got the above link, but underneath it shows modules & worksheets relevant to various disorders so it might be worth a look:
http://psychologytools.com/download-therapy-worksheets.html
Anything chargeable, like the audios, will say. Everything else on that download page should be free.
Cancer symptoms aren't intermittent, Rainbow. You have had a few episodes of diarrhoea over the past 6 months. A few. My daughter has had 4 episodes today. Her anxiety is very high and is affecting her bowels. She understands what is happening.
Intermittent feeds right into IBS and anxiety. I bet it doesn't in the cancer you fear as that would be growing and symptoms would only worsen?
I found getting more probiotics did help with my digestion. I've been eating worse since Xmas, I need to get back to healthier stuff, and it has given lots of toilet irregularity.
---------- Post added at 16:49 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------
The modules are here:
http://www.cci.health.wa.gov.au/resources/infopax.cfm?Info_ID=53
On this one if you scroll below the worksheets you will see CCI mentioned, which is where I got the above link, but underneath it shows modules & worksheets relevant to various disorders so it might be worth a look:
http://psychologytools.com/download-therapy-worksheets.html
Anything chargeable, like the audios, will say. Everything else on that download page should be free.
Thank you, I'll have a look at those and try to get a start on controlling my anxiety.
---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 18:16 ----------
Cancer symptoms aren't intermittent, Rainbow. You have had a few episodes of diarrhoea over the past 6 months. A few. My daughter has had 4 episodes today. Her anxiety is very high and is affecting her bowels. She understands what is happening.
I know what you're saying makes sense it's just the past 2 weeks I've had 4 episodes of diarrhoea and a lot of days it's looser than it should be. I'm clinging onto the fact that prior to the anxiety kicking in I wasn't having these issues, just the usual ibs symptoms every now and again. I'm sure the fact that I'm perimenopausal is making my anxiety worse along with all the other stress factors I've had over the last couple of years.
I hope your daughter starts to feel better soon.
Thank you, Rainbow. Thankfully we have a GP appointment on Monday and I am going to ask for her to have some beta blockers to try to dampen down some of the physical symptoms-she can't take most anti depressants due to a very rare medical reaction.
Take a look at the links Terry has provided? It will be more beneficial than endless google symptom searching. Let us know how you get on?
GlassPinata
25-02-17, 19:14
Cancer symptoms aren't intermittent, Rainbow. You have had a few episodes of diarrhoea over the past 6 months. A few. My daughter has had 4 episodes today. Her anxiety is very high and is affecting her bowels. She understands what is happening.
Cancer is not intermittent. It is progressive. This tells me that you are suffering from anxiety symptoms.
I too have IBS- the diarrhea type.
I have been dealing with this for 30 years.
I promise you, although it seems scary, it is entirely stress-related.
Best wishes.
Thank you, Rainbow. Thankfully we have a GP appointment on Monday and I am going to ask for her to have some beta blockers to try to dampen down some of the physical symptoms-she can't take most anti depressants due to a very rare medical reaction.
Take a look at the links Terry has provided? It will be more beneficial than endless google symptom searching. Let us know how you get on?
Hopefully the beta blockers will help with the physical symptoms, they can be really scary. I was put on them 5 years ago when I was going through the same worry. My hands were shaking and my heart was racing, unfortunately they upset my stomach which of course freaked me out and I didn't persevere with them.
I will definitely look at the links, I want to get better
---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:31 ----------
Cancer is not intermittent. It is progressive. This tells me that you are suffering from anxiety symptoms.
I too have IBS- the diarrhea type.
I have been dealing with this for 30 years.
I promise you, although it seems scary, it is entirely stress-related.
Best wishes.
Thank you,
My ibs started with constipation then changed to alternating. Normally I'd maybe have an attack of diarrhoea on a monthly basis and it didn't bother me. It's the frequency of this that's concerned me but I know my mind is constantly on my bowels so it's not helping.
Have woken up really anxious and down today, also feel quite nauseous. How do I get through another day feeling like this.
I think you are going to have to make a decision here. Either accept that you are suffering from IBS-diarrhoea triggered by anxiety and have a look at Terry's links or you will have to be brave and go to your GP and say that you think you've got bowel cancer and want to have a faecal occult blood test for starters.
I think you have to make a decision to do something and it may be that talking about your perceived frequency to the GP will be cathartic? Maybe formal tests would be a way forward for you providing you accept the results?
I can't cope with tests right now, I know my mental health will break down completely if I have to wait for test results. I will not be able to function at all.
Can you function now though? I mean just to get through the day without panic and fear re your bowels? If you don't want tests will you work on trying not to google symptoms?
Can you function now though? I mean just to get through the day without panic and fear re your bowels? If you don't want tests will you work on trying not to google symptoms?
I am functioning right now but it's hard. I can keep myself together and do the things I need to do. I usually feel a lot better in the evening as I rarely have to go to the toilet then.
I want to get my anxiety under control before I talk to my gp about any of thid. My art therapist told me that when I'm googling I'm consuming all these negative thoughts and it will have an effect on my stomach. I have to cut down before I see her next, so we are working on that.
When I read you're previous post my anxiety mind went straight to "oh no, she thinks I need tests, she must think I have bowel cancer!" How illogical is that? I've had a look at the links and I'm going to start working through them.
I really appreciate you talking with me, thank you.
You know that I don't think you have bowel cancer. I just feel that you are stuck in your bowel cancer mindset at the moment so something has to happen before you can move out of this mental impasse..
Having tests actually worked for me- I think it was the fact that I was actually "doing something" no matter how terrifying that was but I was able to believe the outcome of the tests and felt that I was actively facilitating my recovery by going through the process and exposing my symptoms for what they truly were..symptoms not disease. I realise that this wouldn't be an option for you though- I'm just describing how I went about things.
You seem to have a good rapport with your art therapist so hopefully she can support you-along with all of us on this thread-to keep away from unhealthy, anxiety-provoking Dr bl**dy Google!!!
ServerError
26-02-17, 14:06
I keep going back to the fact you signed up in 2004. Are you going to look back one day on all these years you could have been living and regret the time wasted on unnecessary worries? If you're okay with that, carry on as you are.
I'm sorry to sound harsh, but the sad truth for so many anxiety sufferers is that they are wasting their lives with worry. As fishmanpa often says, you're dying above ground. Granted, you do art therapy and the waiting list for CBT is stupidly long, but you've got to start seeking change. Get on that waiting list, even if you do have to wait 18 months. Firstly, you never know, it might come round sooner, and secondly, what's 18 months compared to a decade or more of suffering?
You've got to take this into your own hands and start getting your life back. I'm not saying it's easy, but what's the alternative?
You know that I don't think you have bowel cancer. I just feel that you are stuck in your bowel cancer mindset at the moment so something has to happen before you can move out of this mental impasse..
Having tests actually worked for me- I think it was the fact that I was actually "doing something" no matter how terrifying that was but I was able to believe the outcome of the tests and felt that I was actively facilitating my recovery by going through the process and exposing my symptoms for what they truly were..symptoms not disease. I realise that this wouldn't be an option for you though- I'm just describing how I went about things.
You seem to have a good rapport with your art therapist so hopefully she can support you-along with all of us on this thread-to keep away from unhealthy, anxiety-provoking Dr bl**dy Google!!!
I do realise that you don't think I have bowel cancer it's the anxiety talking to me. I have in the past gone for tests and at one point I was never away from my gp, in fact he was getting really annoyed with me and told me that one day I would be like the boy who cried wolf. After that I stopped going so often. I'be had HA over my kids aswell, my son had a lump on his back when he was a year old that I convinced myself was a rare soft tissue cancer, then he had bloot in his urine a year later that I "diagnosed" as a wilms tumour.
I am trying to stay off Google but the compulsion is so strong. My art therapist suggested audio books as I'm having try concentrating while trying to read. Normally I love reading and can immerse myself completely in a good book. Again, thank you for taking the time to reply to me, I have no-one to talk to in rl apart from my art therapist once a week.
---------- Post added at 14:44 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------
That would be blood, not bloot!
---------- Post added at 14:52 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------
I keep going back to the fact you signed up in 2004. Are you going to look back one day on all these years you could have been living and regret the time wasted on unnecessary worries? If you're okay with that, carry on as you are.
I'm sorry to sound harsh, but the sad truth for so many anxiety sufferers is that they are wasting their lives with worry. As fishmanpa often says, you're dying above ground. Granted, you do art therapy and the waiting list for CBT is stupidly long, but you've got to start seeking change. Get on that waiting list, even if you do have to wait 18 months. Firstly, you never know, it might come round sooner, and secondly, what's 18 months compared to a decade or more of suffering?
You've got to take this into your own hands and start getting your life back. I'm not saying it's easy, but what's the alternative?
I don't think your being harsh, it's true that I could live for another 30 years like this and look back and see the time that I've wasted worrying over imagined illnesses. That's not a life!
I'm thinking about having a phone consultation with my gp and only talking about the anxiety rather than the symptoms but I get scared that once I start it'll all come rambling out and before I know it I will be agreeing to all manner of tests and that will tip me over the edge, I'm sure.
Thank you for your posts, your words are sinking in.
I think if you really believed you did indeed have bowel cancer you would have gone to the GP straight away. Regardless of your fears you would have had these tests for the sake of your family.
You know what is happening but the "what if's" are tormenting you because you are feeding them via Dr Google. Do you think your art therapist would be treating you as an anxiety patient if she felt there was a genuine risk that you may be physically ill? She's seen it all before (as you have).
It's not going to be easy for you because you are so tuned into your symptoms so you'll need as much support as possible from your art therapist and maybe, just maybe your GP could turn out to be more empathetic than you anticipate? Going cold turkey on google is a tall order but every "quick look" will set you back and set your heart pounding and your gut churning. What is the pay off for you in this? It's a compulsion which can only do you harm.
MyNameIsTerry
26-02-17, 17:17
Yes, that's a good idea. A telephone consultation is a compromise and gets you to your GP sooner to start the wheels in motion. Tell them how hard it currently is to see them, they will understand, it's something they come across with people with medical phobias or agoraphobia anyway.
Resisting those compulsions will get easier. Read the workbooks, there may be a module with tips for this. There is certainly plenty on the Internet about what to do when resisting.
For instance, put Internet devices in a place hard to access them. One of my compulsions was constantly checking my watch which fed my obsession with time. My therapist wanted me to put my wrist watch out of reach. If I went out, don't take it. I couldn't do that when out as I would miss appointments so she compromised with keeping it in my pocket. What I also did was fill my pocket with loose stuff to make accessing it longer which meant I had more chance of thinking "stop!".
That was a simple tactic but it did help a little bit so had a small weakening effect on that obsession.
This might not be practical if you need support on here too but you get the idea. Make it harder, we are less tempted when things aren't so easy to just do and the anxiety to perform compulsions peaks & declines unless we are very bad.
If you can't do that, create an alternative that forces you not to even have the time to conduct a compulsion. I couldn't do this because my compulsions were so varied , quick and they would latch onto the alternatives if they involved doing anything in my compulsions e.g. touching objects. But the premise is taking yourself away for a while e.g. compulsion to wash your hands then go and fold some clothes for 15 minutes.
I used other ways for some of mine like conducting some compulsions while trying to hijack the thought process into being "my choice" not being forced out of fear. This helped with some touching compulsions. I wouldn't go this route with yours right now if there are others to try like the above but it's something you may be able to use, like how pulisa took those tests and took control of her thoughts about the obsession of the time. (I'm not saying ignore pulisa's advice on getting tests, just that my way of taking control might not work on the Googling).
I think it's a question of trying different ways to see what helps and what definitely doesn't. I'm still immersed in various rituals and routines and I know how hard it is to check these compulsions-the fact that I've managed to keep my HA in check doesn't mean that I don't fall short in other areas.
I'd agree to make the checking google as hard as possible. For me it would mean complete cold turkey once I'd put my mind to it because I can't do half measures and the temptation would be agony. However restricting yourself would give you control and show how you can actually manage self-restraint. Sometimes anticipating doing this can be worse than actually putting it into practice..
Thank you all for the good advice, I will try to put it into practice.
School mornings are always the worst so I'm feeling pretty anxious right now. I can feel the fear building and I don't want to move, want to stay in bed and hide away.
---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 ----------
I called my gp today but could only speak to a junior doctor. I explained everything to him, about my intense fear of anything medical and that I'm really only just hanging on, how bad I feel for letting my family down, that I can go to work but not really anywhere else. That I'm not eating properly and basically have no enjoyment in life.
He said that as he's only a junior dr that he's going to speak to someone more senior and they're going to call me about 2pm but I'm worried that I'll not answer the call. It took so much for me to call in the first place, I built myself up and I'm scared that my resolve will go before 2pm. I'm terrified that they will say that I need to have tests. I'll lose it if that happens.
---------- Post added at 11:24 ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 ----------
Would love to have some encouraging words so that I don't back out of taking the call. Feeling extremely anxious.
ServerError
27-02-17, 12:10
When that phone rings, instead of fretting about answering it, remember that you've already proved that you can do it by talking to the junior doctor. It's the same thing again. There is nothing about the receiving the phone call that is a problem here. The problem, as always, is with your anxious reaction to it.
Bear in mind that this call could be the start of your journey towards a better life. You have to answer it. Make sure you tell the doctor everything you possibly can. Tell them about your use of this forum, about the length of your thread, about how long you've been suffering and about how the 18 month wait for help is actually putting you off seeking it.
Above all, remember that you're receiving a call from somebody whose only motivation is to help you.
No doctor would refer you for medical tests without actually seeing you in the surgery. You said you had a history of HA with this practice so a senior doctor would have looked back over your records before calling you at 2 and summed up the situation pretty quickly. There is nothing stopping you from picking up the phone..only you and your fears. What have you got to lose? Why turn down a precious chance to speak to someone who could help you? You will be so mad at yourself if you deny yourself this chance.
MyNameIsTerry
27-02-17, 12:36
Well done for taking the first necessary step. :yesyes And you just got on with it, you could have easily let your mind talk you out of it over weeks instead. That's you taking control. Empowerment is important. Wanting to do something is more powerful than anxiety forcing you to do something and it's part of how we recover.
Now comes another step that feels less in your control, hence more anxiety. But the same person who sat listening to the phone ring at their end and didn't hang up can do the same here when your phone rings and you have to get it. Once you are talking, you will regain further control and stay on.
So, it's distraction time for a bit and deep breaths when the phone rings. One foot in front of the other and thoughts of "I want to get over this". You are in a safe place, the phone can be put down at any time and then you are still where you were before.
I seriously doubt a GP will want to do tests unless a HA sufferer pushes for them. What you have been describing could be attributed to anxiety. They will work it out from questioning.
Good luck! The forum is here for you, before & after. Vent if you need to. Hopefully we will see another success as we did this morning. :yahoo: It seems small to a non sufferer but it's far from it. It's like putting your hand in a fire to the anxiety mind, everything is saying no to you.
Thank you all so much, I'm in tears at your posts and continued support.
I've not managed to eat or drink yet today, I feel stuck to my couch. So scared, I don't want to go into my symptoms really, more the anxiety. The junior dr said that it would be better if I could manage in to the surgery but I immediately thought that he wants me there to examine me, my arms went numb and my heart was racing, it was awful. He said that before referring me to therapy there are questions they need to ask and that's why it would be better to see me there. Why can't they just ask me over the phone?
ServerError
27-02-17, 13:07
They probably can interview you over the phone if really necessary. But doctors are human too. They can tell a lot more from face-to-face contact. It's clear from what you're saying that they recognise anxiety as your problem. They won't want to order any tests. It's really important for your future that you don't let these fears prevent you from going forward with this. You can definitely do this.
The closer it gets to 2pm the more anxious I'm becoming. I have a tremor in my head when I'm really stressed and its bad just now.
MyNameIsTerry
27-02-17, 13:16
It sounds like the junior doctor is very limited in his understanding and is falling back on standard protocol.
I don't want you to worry but he may just be thinking about the risk of harm. A doctor may pick up on things face-to-face but in your case I can't see how they would have a worry about that. Even if they did, they can choose to come to you. They must deal or know the existence of severe agoraphobics who just can't get to them? Would they think "oh well, can't treat them then" purely because of the normal protocol of seeing them in the surgery? That would be very convenient but would be a neglect of duty.
Don't entertain those thoughts right now because it's all opinion, not fact. Under the IAPT system in England & Wales we can self refer without ever seeing a doctor. . Weer just ring the provider, they do the assessment. Scotland are on the old system but if we can do that, why can't they since who delivers the therapy always does an assessment well beyond what a GP can?
You. Can. Do. This!! Do it for your family and most of all, do it for you! A better life awaits :)
Positive thoughts
It sounds like the junior doctor is very limited in his understanding and is falling back on standard protocol.
I don't want you to worry but he may just be thinking about the risk of harm. A doctor may pick up on things face-to-face but in your case I can't see how they would have a worry about that. Even if they did, they can choose to come to you. They must deal or know the existence of severe agoraphobics who just can't get to them? Would they think "oh well, can't treat them then" purely because of the normal protocol of seeing them in the surgery? That would be very convenient but would be a neglect of duty.
Don't entertain those thoughts right now because it's all opinion, not fact. Under the IAPT system in England & Wales we can self refer without ever seeing a doctor. . Weer just ring the provider, they do the assessment. Scotland are on the old system but if we can do that, why can't they since who delivers the therapy always does an assessment well beyond what a GP can?
What do you mean about the risk of harm?
I really wish we could self refer here. I'm concerned about how long it's going to take to see someone in psychology. What am I going to do in the meantime? Is this actually going to get me any further forward? God, I'm a total mess right now. Thinking of asking for some diazepam for when it gets really bad.
---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:26 ----------
You. Can. Do. This!! Do it for your family and most of all, do it for you! A better life awaits :)
Positive thoughts
I hope I can! This is why I'm doing it, for my family. The gp asked me if I feel worthless and have feelings of guilt, my answer was a definite yes, I live for my kids and I'm letting them down so badly.
ServerError
27-02-17, 13:42
Forget about the "risk of harm".
Anxiety will tell you that there is something to fear with the phone call. It's up to you how you react to that. I assure you you can do this.
MyNameIsTerry
27-02-17, 13:45
All medical professionals have a duty to assess for risk of harm under The Mental Health Act. They will be doing it in their heads without even telling us because it's their duty of care.
All it means is that anyone presenting with a mental health issue is assessed whether they are so ill that they present a danger to themselves or others. That's not you, but it could just be a reason why the junior doctor was unsure. Unless a doctor hears you saying things that bring this into question, it doesn't matter if you are calling from anywhere.
My therapist explained this to me and she said don't take offence to questions about it as they do it as a matter of standard procedure for all patients as mandated by the government under the Act. It's a safeguard to pick up people who are not saying they feel life isn't worth living but are more likely to act on it. It's a trigger process to the sectioning process. But she also explained that they are used to people like us saying they have thoughts of despair and not wanting to live BUT they ask further questions which probe whether the patient is researching methods to do it AND they ask any likelihood to follow it through AND they ask what keeps you from doing it.
Example. I was asked this at every therapy session from when I was really bad to when I was starting to recover because it's just a monitoring tool. I answered I had thought life wasn't worth living in every single questionnaire. But my likelihood to do it zero of out ten, I wasn't actively looking for methods to act it out and my reason for not taking action was always my family (and other positive things as my mindset was changing).
Do you see what I mean? If you were asked that I have no doubt in my mind that you would be putting your kids in as the reason you would never take action. You're a loving mother!
Don't worry any it. It's just procedure we all go through. I used to fill those things in away from the therapist. She wasn't concerned. So, unless your GP heard you saying some worrying things about wishing to harm, it's just not an issue. A junior doctor may be less experienced in making that judgement call and play safe but an experienced doctor will take a view that bringing you in just for that may be detrimental to your anxiety.
This is a first step. The wait is a disgrace bit at least you are on the list. As SE said earlier, you may even get bumped up due to people being freed up. Kimberley is in Scotland and she got in much earlier due to cancellations.
Don't let them down. Pick up the phone. I think when someone is really anxious it's best to keep emotion out of it and keep advice concise and simple so that's why I'm keeping my posts short.
The waiting will be the worst bit. Not long to go now but don't panic if 2pm comes and goes without a call. You know what doctors are like..
All medical professionals have a duty to assess for risk of harm under The Mental Health Act. They will be doing it in their heads without even telling us because it's their duty of care.
All it means is that anyone presenting with a mental health issue is assessed whether they are so ill that they present a danger to themselves or others. That's not you, but it could just be a reason why the junior doctor was unsure. Unless a doctor hears you saying things that bring this into question, it doesn't matter if you are calling from anywhere.
My therapist explained this to me and she said don't take offence to questions about it as they do it as a matter of standard procedure for all patients as mandated by the government under the Act. It's a safeguard to pick up people who are not saying they feel life isn't worth living but are more likely to act on it. It's a trigger process to the sectioning process. But she also explained that they are used to people like us saying they have thoughts of despair and not wanting to live BUT they ask further questions which probe whether the patient is researching methods to do it AND they ask any likelihood to follow it through AND they ask what keeps you from doing it.
Example. I was asked this at every therapy session from when I was really bad to when I was starting to recover because it's just a monitoring tool. I answered I had thought life wasn't worth living in every single questionnaire. But my likelihood to do it zero of out ten, I wasn't actively looking for methods to act it out and my reason for not taking action was always my family (and other positive things as my mindset was changing).
Do you see what I mean? If you were asked that I have no doubt in my mind that you would be putting your kids in as the reason you would never take action. You're a loving mother!
Don't worry any it. It's just procedure we all go through. I used to fill those things in away from the therapist. She wasn't concerned. So, unless your GP heard you saying some worrying things about wishing to harm, it's just not an issue. A junior doctor may be less experienced in making that judgement call and play safe but an experienced doctor will take a view that bringing you in just for that may be detrimental to your anxiety.
This is a first step. The wait is a disgrace bit at least you are on the list. As SE said earlier, you may even get bumped up due to people being freed up. Kimberley is in Scotland and she got in much earlier due to cancellations.
Thanks for clearing that up, I thought it was about my physical health so ki nda freaked me out.
I was very upset when I called the gp earlier and I just know I'm going to break down again. I'm not a big cryer but I'be barely stopped today. I'm absolutely overwhelmed at the caring a d kindness that you've all shown me.
---------- Post added at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:55 ----------
Forget about the "risk of harm".
Anxiety will tell you that there is something to fear with the phone call. It's up to you how you react to that. I assure you you can do this.
Thank you, I'm going to try to answer the phone. Shaking a lot right now.
---------- Post added at 13:58 ---------- Previous post was at 13:57 ----------
Don't let them down. Pick up the phone. I think when someone is really anxious it's best to keep emotion out of it and keep advice concise and simple so that's why I'm keeping my posts short.
The waiting will be the worst bit. Not long to go now but don't panic if 2pm comes and goes without a call. You know what doctors are like..
I understand.
That's what I'm worried about, the call being late or not at all.
Don't worry about breaking down. The doctor won't be judging you. He needs to know how anxiety is affecting all aspects of your life.
---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:01 ----------
I'm sure there will be a call but it may not be on time. It will be before the afternoon surgery appointments start though.
MyNameIsTerry
27-02-17, 14:05
Don't worry about breaking down. The doctor won't be judging you. He needs to know how anxiety is affecting all aspects of your life.
Completely agree. If anything, it will show him how you feel.
We have this in built need to play symptoms down when with mental health they expect tears. Maybe it's a "stiff upper lip" British thing? I don't know.
Still waiting for the call
ServerError
27-02-17, 14:08
I used to break down in front of my GP all the time. Also did so in front of my therapist. I've never been a "stiff upper lip" kinda guy. I don't regret it, though. It was an important part of my treatment that they saw exactly what was going on.
I think it's good to be able to cry. Keeping it all in just means the mental pain rears its ugly head in anger and physical symptoms.
I need to go and get my son from school, if they call when I'm out I can't take it and all of this will have been for nothing. I've never been so scared.
ServerError
27-02-17, 14:19
I need to go and get my son from school, if they call when I'm out I can't take it and all of this will have been for nothing. I've never been so scared.
Call them! You've done it already today so you know you can.
If you can't get it done today, it won't have been for nothing. You've proven you can do it, so you can try again tomorrow.
MyNameIsTerry
27-02-17, 14:22
I used to break down in front of my GP all the time. Also did so in front of my therapist. I've never been a "stiff upper lip" kinda guy. I don't regret it, though. It was an important part of my treatment that they saw exactly what was going on.
I didn't but couldn't contain the shaking. I only cried once in front of my parents as it was my first time on antidepressants and my GP didn't prepare me do when my mood sunk it temporarily broke me down.
It's just not me, it wasn't in where I grew up and later on my working life. But I respect that you did and that you don't see it as a negative, I think it's great. Some see it as weakness and make themselves worse due to their perceived failure. I've always thought your attitude would give you an excellent start in recovery.
I agree with SE. If you can't speak today get them to call at the end of tomorrow's morning surgery so that it doesn't run into the school pick-up time?
I can't do this again, I really can't
Yes you can. For your family.
MyNameIsTerry
27-02-17, 14:26
Call them! You've done it already today so you know you can.
If you can't get it done today, it won't have been for nothing. You've proven you can do it, so you can try again tomorrow.
Yep, do this. They will appreciate it and just rearrange around you.
---------- Post added at 14:26 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------
Yes you can. For your family.
+1
Deep breath. You want to get better.
Called them, the dr was calling my old landline number. I gave my mobile number when I called earlier so don't know what's happened. The dr is with someone now and they don't know when she will call. I don't want to do this in front of my kids.
It will be really disappointing if the GP fails to ring as arranged but you mustn't give up. Some emergency may have come up. The message may not have been passed on which is why you need to have courage and ring back.
I can't go through another day like today. I've not eaten or had anything to drink, I can't move. This is worse than anything I've felt.
---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------
Still no call
ServerError
27-02-17, 15:26
I can't go through another day like today. I've not eaten or had anything to drink, I can't move. This is worse than anything I've felt.
---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 14:43 ----------
Still no call
There's not much more anyone else here can say. You've been let down by an administrative error, but nobody here can actually get you the help you need. If it were me, I'd be back in that phone. Sometimes you have to be persistent. If it can't be done today, tomorrow is a new day.
You're right, sorry. I think I'm just going to stick with the online cbt and my art therapist and try to get better that way. Thank you all for your support.
MyNameIsTerry
27-02-17, 15:44
It's been a very difficult day for you. Hopefully the doctor will call yet. They will be fitting it around patients in the surgery I would imagine, like with emergency appointments? I'm sure they will do their best.
Whenever we get a really bad experience, we feel the need to retreat. It's natural, it's what fight or flight is supposed to be doing. I've done it many times. It all feels to hard to go through again.
But things will feel different once the current anxiety spike goes. It will be still hard but you will feel less heightened and more able to try again. We need to.
The dr called, I told her everything. She seemed to latch onto the weight loss and suggested that I go in for blood tests! This is what I was scared of about seeing a dr. I told her I can't when I'm so anxious. I told her that I always lose weight when I'm highly anxious and that I have not been eating much at all. She agreed that it wasn't a sudden loss but that if I feel a bit better to go and see her for a check over. This is the reason I haven't seen a dr before now because I knew they would want to do tests.
She's going to refer me for cbt and ask for it to be asap but that she can't do it as an urgent referral. So tbh I feel just as bad if not worse than before.
ServerError
27-02-17, 17:53
The dr called, I told her everything. She seemed to latch onto the weight loss and suggested that I go in for blood tests! This is what I was scared of about seeing a dr. I told her I can't when I'm so anxious. I told her that I always lose weight when I'm highly anxious and that I have not been eating much at all. She agreed that it wasn't a sudden loss but that if I feel a bit better to go and see her for a check over. This is the reason I haven't seen a dr before now because I knew they would want to do tests.
She's going to refer me for cbt and ask for it to be asap but that she can't do it as an urgent referral. So tbh I feel just as bad if not worse than before.
You've taken a positive step. Take some pride in it. You did the right thing.
You mention weight loss to a doctor and there's always a chance they'll want to investigate it. The doctor clearly doesn't think it's an urgent issue. I don't think for a second that you have anything other than anxiety going on, but if you did, wouldn't you want the tests to be done?
In any case, the next step is to go in and see the doctor. Take a friend or loved one for support. You can decline the tests if you must and say you want to focus on the anxiety. Obviously there isn't much else to cover now that you've done it over the phone, but a face-to-face appointment couldn't hurt.
You've taken a positive stop. Take some pride in it. You did the right thing.
You mention weight loss to a doctor and there's always a chance they'll want to investigate it. The doctor clearly doesn't think it's an urgent issue. I don't think for a second that you have anything other than anxiety going on, but if you did, wouldn't you want the tests to be done?
In any case, the next step is to go in and see the doctor. Take a friend or loved one for support. You can decline the tests if you must and say you want to focus on the anxiety. Obviously there isn't much else to cover now that you've done it over the phone, but a face-to-face appointment couldn't hurt.
That's the issue though, my absolute phobia of medical testing, I would fall to pieces while waiting for results, that's why I want the anxiety to calm down first. There's no way in my current state of mind that I would be able to cope and function. I can't put my kids through seeing me like that, it would terrify them. So maybe I'm being stupid and reckless with my health and I'm going to die and it will be my own fault. What a mess!
I presume she's thinking rule out overactive thyroid which can bump up anxiety but it's up to you now. You don't have to have blood tests. No one's saying they are essential in order for you to qualify for HA therapy. The doctor is obviously not concerned. I don't know what more we can do on here.
ServerError
27-02-17, 18:36
Yeah, I echo pulisa. There isn't much more we can say. I imagine your kids would go through something a lot worse if you died through not seeking medical treatment, but that's irrelevant right now. Anxiety is the issue. As I said, you can decline tests if you choose to. You've been referred for therapy, so hopefully that will come through quickly. I'd suggest you seriously consider medication. But whatever you do, go and see your doctor, let her really see what's going on, and show her this thread.
I presume she's thinking rule out overactive thyroid which can bump up anxiety but it's up to you now. You don't have to have blood tests. No one's saying they are essential in order for you to qualify for HA therapy. The doctor is obviously not concerned. I don't know what more we can do on here.
Yeah you're maybe right.
Thanks again, I'm going to stay off of here now.
3rd echo here.... 13 years worrying on the forum and still worrying :( Something's got to give. You just had a door opened. It's up to you to step through it.
Good luck and as always...
Positive thoughts
Yeah, I echo pulisa. There isn't much more we can say. I imagine your kids would go through something a lot worse if you died through not seeking medical treatment, but that's irrelevant right now. Anxiety is the issue. As I said, you can decline tests if you choose to. You've been referred for therapy, so hopefully that will come through quickly. I'd suggest you seriously consider medication. But whatever you do, go and see your doctor, let her really see what's going on, and show her this thread.
You've been helpful but the bit about my kids going through worse if I die really upset me. I get the feeling you think I'm being reckless, I already feel guilty and ashamed and I'm tryingl to do the right thing.
I'm on medication, have been for 13 years now. Citalopram 20mg.
---------- Post added at 18:54 ---------- Previous post was at 18:47 ----------
3rd echo here.... 13 years worrying on the forum and still worrying :( Something's got to give. You just had a door opened. It's up to you to step through it.
Good luck and as always...
Positive thoughts
My last cbt therapist told me that I would never be completely free of HA that it would always be there in the background. I've had 5 years of no HA until last year, exacerbated by my adult son's self harm and addictions.
I fully intend on working hard on my anxiety and hopefully will be able to overcome my fear of medical testing.
Thank you for your input.
Yep, you have IBS, along with many other people on this forum.
Please stop worrying and enjoy your life! (I know it's not that easy to do so :))
ServerError
27-02-17, 19:04
You've been helpful but the bit about my kids going through worse if I die really upset me. I get the feeling you think I'm being reckless, I already feel guilty and ashamed and I'm tryingl to do the right thing.
Notice how you ignored the bit about it being irrelevant and how anxiety is the issue? Notice how your mind latches onto things and twists them into the worst case scenario? This is what you need to begin changing.
I don't believe there's anything wrong other than anxiety. But it's logical and rational that declining tests, should a doctor feel that they are important and necessary, is potentially dangerous. But I'll say it again - it's not relevant right now. You can decline tests if you want to. Your problem is anxiety.
Go and see your doctor.
Sorry for scaring you. It wasn't my intention. I was just trying to help you think a bit more logically. Sometimes we offer thoughts and advice without realising how it might be taken. I've been on the receiving end in the past.
Notice how you ignored the bit about it being irrelevant and how anxiety is the issue? Notice how your mind latches onto things and twists them into the worst case scenario? This is what you need to begin changing.
I don't believe there's anything wrong other than anxiety. But it's logical and rational that declining tests, should a doctor feel that they are important and necessary, is potentially dangerous. But I'll say it again - it's not relevant right now. You can decline tests if you want to. Your problem is anxiety.
Go and see your doctor.
Sorry for scaring you. It wasn't my intention. I was just trying to help you think a bit more logically. Sometimes we offer thoughts and advice without realising how it might be taken. I've been on the receiving end in the past.
I'm sure you did'nt intend to scare me, but it doesn't take much. When the dr mentioned blood tests my arms started tingling then went numb. The weight loss doesn't worry me as I know why I'm losing it, it happens every time I go through these episodes of anxiety. I'm not saying that I'll never have any tests done but I have to lower the anxiety first.
If it hadn't been for you and the other poster helping me I would never have made that call. Hopefully I can find the old me again.
You are really lucky to have been referred for CBT. My daughter doesn't have this option nor does she have the option of anti depressants so we both have to work really hard to keep her anxiety within manageable levels...which is very challenging.
Take this opportunity and for goodness sake stay off the "Is this IBS or something more sinister"-type threads. It's self-sabotage with a vengeance. You MUST help yourself or else you'll just be on an endless loop of HA self-torture and is that fair on your family?
Kathryn313
27-02-17, 21:08
Just caught up with this thread. You have been very brave.
Good luck with the next step of your recovery.
MyNameIsTerry
28-02-17, 05:24
If your doctor had a concern that turning down a test could mean making you ill, you can bet they would make that clear. They would take the flack for not doing so later if it came out.
So, it might just be for ruling things out as pulisa says? Your GP will monitor things anyway.
Perhaps your GP needs to review your meds? It could be that you need an increase and they can poop out meaning a switch is needed. Either way I'm wondering how much they are doing for you right now.
You are really lucky to have been referred for CBT. My daughter doesn't have this option nor does she have the option of anti depressants so we both have to work really hard to keep her anxiety within manageable levels...which is very challenging.
Take this opportunity and for goodness sake stay off the "Is this IBS or something more sinister"-type threads. It's self-sabotage with a vengeance. You MUST help yourself or else you'll just be on an endless loop of HA self-torture and is that fair on your family?
It must be very hard for you and your daughter to cope with. Why will not give her cbt or anti depressants?
I am going to do everything I can to get better, I HAVE to.
---------- Post added at 06:13 ---------- Previous post was at 06:10 ----------
Just caught up with this thread. You have been very brave.
Good luck with the next step of your recovery.
Thank you, I don't feel very brave though.
I've been following your posts and you're doing so well, I really hope I can't get to that point in the near future. Good luck with your appointment today.
---------- Post added at 06:20 ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 ----------
If your doctor had a concern that turning down a test could mean making you ill, you can bet they would make that clear. They would take the flack for not doing so later if it came out.
So, it might just be for ruling things out as pulisa says? Your GP will monitor things anyway.
Perhaps your GP needs to review your meds? It could be that you need an increase and they can poop out meaning a switch is needed. Either way I'm wondering how much they are doing for you right now.
I assume it was the weight loss that prompted her to suggest the blood tests, I did explain to her that I'm not concerned about that as I know why it's happening.
When this all started I had been withdrawing from citalopram and had been given a prescription for sertraline but after reading the side effects, one of which was an upset stomach I decided against taking them. Very silly of me as both my son a d daughter are on these and find them to be a great help.
---------- Post added at 10:10 ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 ----------
Forgot to mention that my gp told me about a place in our town called mindspace that can help with mental health issues, I only need to give them a call and they should be able to see me while I'm waiting for my cbt.
Hi - can I ask a question to the experienced no more panic colleagues?
I was on 50mg of sertraline for 4 weeks then the doctor increased it to 100mg. I've been on that dose for 4.5 weeks. I'm still having down days and trouble sleeping - also a dry mouth from time to time and chatterbox negative thoughts. Is it still too early to feel the full effects even though I've been on sertraline for 8 weeks in total?
Thanks a lot for any help.
NJ
ServerError
02-03-17, 17:32
Hi - can I ask a question to the experienced no more panic colleagues?
I was on 50mg of sertraline for 4 weeks then the doctor increased it to 100mg. I've been on that dose for 4.5 weeks. I'm still having down days and trouble sleeping - also a dry mouth from time to time and chatterbox negative thoughts. Is it still too early to feel the full effects even though I've been on sertraline for 8 weeks in total?
Thanks a lot for any help.
NJ
You're in the period when SSRIs generally start to take effect. But it's different for everyone. The maximum therapeutic dose is 200mg, so it may be that you end up being increased again, or you may end up switching to another. By eight weeks on 100mg of sertraline, I was noticing improvements, but it wasn't a magic switch. I still had the things you describe to some extent.
Also, bear in mind, that you'll never chase away all anxious thought. That isn't the goal. Ideally, you combine meds with therapy, and the meds help you implement what you learn in therapy. In the real world, the waiting list means people are often forced to rely on meds, but in any case, there are so many ifs, buts and maybes with these meds, what applies to one person doesn't necessarily apply to another.
If were you, I'd give them a bit longer, and if you don't feel they're helping, talk about it with your doctor again.
Thanks server error. I will give it longer - I've got a doctors review next week to discuss going back to work but I'm not really up to it yet.
Does the insomnia eventually disappear in your experience?
And do the down days go?
Cheers.
NJ
ServerError
02-03-17, 19:30
I have very few down days now. But the sertraline is only part of the reason. It's also the result of working with a good therapist and a general change in my own attitude to life. But as I said, the goal is not to never have down days. Feeling down is part of the normal human range of emotions. But sertraline certainly helped me change so that I felt down and/or anxious far less often.
I'm not the best person to ask about insomnia as I've always been a poor sleeper. It didn't get noticeably worse when I started sertraline, but I do sleep better nowadays. See the above paragraph for why that is.
I've found that the best anti depressant is mirtazapine for long term depression and adhd as sertraline gives worse side affects
Capercrohnj
02-03-17, 23:51
Just a slight possible warning. If you are bipolar anti depressants can make you hypomanic if taken without a mood stabilizer so if you feel particularly keyed up with lots of energy and can't sleep this is something to consider (and no hypomania is not a positive state to be in)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.