Scrupulosity, fundamental Christianity and anxiety

[TheAnxiousEnglishman]

Hi everybody,

My story is a long one, so I'll make it as short as possible.

I'm 23 and English (so this may be alien to a lot of fellow Brits), and was raised in a very unimposing Christian home, where I felt very unthreatened regarding religious dogma, although I felt I was a Christian and stuck up for my beliefs when pushed by my atheist friends who wanted to get in a couple of digs.

I think because of this anti-God society we live in (not an attack - just an observation) along with my atheist friends, I was pushed to the extreme in defending my faith and ended up going from moderate Christianity to accepting fundamentalist Christianity. I felt as though I needed to to defend what I believed. In the end, I suppose if you want to defend the bible, you really have to know all the creation and theological arguments etc...

I joined the church and started to seriously read the bible for the first time. I was went in expecting to read about grace and mercy etc... but I was really shocked to read about the wrath of God, which paints God as unloving at times.

I've studied about the doctrines of eternal Hell and damnation, and now my 'relationship to God' is almost entirely based on fear and condemnation. My preconceptions about the bible being true and defending my faith, automatically got me to believe in Hell and all sorts of troubling dogmas in the Christian church today.

I spoke to some members in the church who defended Hell entirely and believe that the 'unsaved' should deserve to be punished forever, which, of course, I don't wish to believe.

Now I struggle with obsessions over Hell, eternal damnation and the unforgivable sin (a story for another time). I've believed myself into a right mess.

P.S. I don't consider myself unintelligent, despite the fundamentalist Christian stereotypes (I have a masters degree in classics). I think I'm just a guy who didn't realise the serious effect this stuff has on the mind.

Any advice from people who get anxiety and racing thoughts over these issues?

TheAnxiousEnglishman

[Fishmanpa]

It's a slippery slope to discuss religion on any forum and it's as different to the individual as fingerprints are.

A masters degree at 23? Wow! you must have been quite the advanced student? Congrats. I happen to enjoy studying religious history and have read many a book on the subject. Having that masters degree means you now these things are words on a page and how you interpret and process them should be based on the historical and social context at the time they were written. That alone should quell some of your thoughts.

Good luck and positive thoughts

[TheAnxiousEnglishman]

Hi Fishmanpa,

I know religion is a sensitive subject, but I was sincerely looking for people who are going through anxiety related to more damaging doctrines and how they have processed that (either leaving the church or taking a more moderate approach) as opposed to a religious debate.

Thank you for your response and advice anyway - its good to have a solid online support network.

[Fishmanpa]

As one who was employed at one time by a rather large church as Creative Arts Director, I have a somewhat intimate if not skewed view of the business of organized religion.

I did give you a way to process it. Like I said, I study religious history as a hobby (no formal schooling) and one must take into consideration the social-economic and historical aspects of when it was written.

The sheer contradictions in the Bible and Christian doctrine alone can boggle the mind. Take for example at the time the Bible was written, the Earth was the center of the universe etc. etc. etc.

What you choose to believe is what you choose to believe. Allowing what you believe to cause you anxiety is also a choice. You can view your beliefs as truth or in context with the way things actually are. If your beliefs or your participation in a church causes you distress, you have the choice to change those beliefs and what you accept as truth as there is no absolute proof either way.

Good luck and as always...

Positive thoughts

[beatroon]

Hi there,

I think I can relate to some of what you're saying. It's a pitfall of any kind of advanced study, that you get into the existential stuff - a questioning mind is just that, and we can't always be in control of what stones we turn over.

However, it sounds like you're aware that you are experiencing more than the usual level of doubt and angst, and that this may be related to anxiety. Without knowing you, it's impossible for me to say whether or not you have a history of being anxious about other things, but I would say that any kind of obsessive thought that is causing you distress is worth investigating on its own terms, i.e. separating it from the topic of the obsession and working on the obsessive thought patterns themselves.

There's a saying that anxiety tends to attack the things that are dear to us. Your faith is obviously important to you and you're struggling with certain elements of it, but is it comforting to know that if your relationship with God were unimportant to you, you wouldn't be having these worries in the first place? There's another saying, which is that it's important to develop psychological flexibility in order to be resilient, and it seems that might be something worth focusing on. People with anxiety problems tend to be very rigid and hold themselves to higher standards than others around them, and ultimately in order to be well we have to relax our grip somewhat.

Good luck and keep us posted!

[TheAnxiousEnglishman]

Yes, I didn't mean to be dismissive in my response. Sometimes an intellectual reasoning is easier to overcome than an emotional one. Perhaps I just need to wait for the toxic elements of the theology to run out of my emotional system.

I've not come across the geocentric model being taught in the bible - I will look that one up.

[Fishmanpa]

I've not come across the geocentric model being taught in the bible - I will look that one up.

It's not actually taught in the Bible but it was the widely believed truth during that time in history. And it persisted for hundreds of years. The same thing goes for the flat earth theory. That's what I'm referring to with taking into context and consideration the social-economic and historical aspects of the times. The way the Bible has been interpreted is changing to this very day.

Positive thoughts

[MyNameIsTerry]

Is this about anxiety in general due to your learning or truly OCD? I say this because the discussion seems to be completely about religion so far and it feels, with respect to others, like engaging in the obsession rather than looking for the problems it is causing.

Feel free to discuss this theme of OCD though, religion can be emotive but so can many themes of OCD and Admin don't have objections over them from what I've seen on here. If people choose to post due to a clash in beliefs, Admin can stop that as it's not what the subject should be about anyway.

[TheAnxiousEnglishman]

Hi Terry,

I think my anxiety is a result of obsessing over the doctrine of eternal damnation. I feel as though I have believed in a very damaging doctrine and now am trapped by my belief.

This isn't bashing Christianity by any means, but an attempt to heal from the wounds that any doctrine can cause when held sincerely and seriously followed. I'm wondering how other people have recovered from what I believe is being labelled 'Religious Trauma Syndrome'

[MyNameIsTerry]

Ok, thanks for the clarification. I asked because whilst there's obviously an obsessional element, it didn't quite map to my understanding of it in OCD. Please feel free to post though, I'm not suggesting it shouldn't be discussed on this board.

You spent a lot of time focusing on one branch and with peer influence. Would you say this has caused you to neglect the other branches? I'm wondering whether part of the solution means redressing the balance? If you wish to continue to have faith rather than avoid it, your perception is what might need the change so at a subconscious level your beliefs also shift back to something more mainstream?

This is obviously hard for me to truly understand, I'm agnostic CofE, but you obviously understand the need to correct your relationship with God and (I hope this doesn't sound offensive, it's not meant to be but it's not easy to word) I've found those more devout to be less accepting of the beliefs of others which is clearly not how you come across.

I'm wondering whether you've had the opportunity to discuss it with a more moderate viewpoint in the church? Their understanding of this issue must be great.

[TheAnxiousEnglishman]

Hi Terry, thanks for your response.

Your absolutely correct - there needs to be a rebalance. My problem is the obsession over Hell, which has been pronounced by the foundation for my faith, based on fear and condemnation. Right now, I feel as though Christianity is all about 'believe or be eternally punished', so while my faith is completely disfunctional and does a massive disservice to me, I'm trapped in a corner because the nature of the theology of Hell and eternal damnation (which most denominations adhere to, although it's not preached much in UK churches) puts you a position of once your in the door, you can't leave - so it's an authoritarian system which comes across as very threatening.

While I hear the 'God is gracious' type of preaching on a Sunday, the bible is very strong on Hell and punishment (especially in the New Testament). So even though I would leave, my beliefs are so invested in Christianity, that I can't see the exit, because I do believe the bible to be true in its other areas of teaching.

I'm not sure if I should take a break from Christianity for a couple of months and try to clear the air, before redressing these issues?

[vicky23]

Well I certainly know what you're going through as I'm in pretty much exactly the same boat!

I have been part of a Pentecostal Church for the last 12 years and the concept of hell has always been troubling to me.
This is how I felt; I emotionally and logically felt it had no place in my faith but the Bible includes verses that seem to say that the unsaved will go to hell.! I couldn't rely on my emotions and mind because I can't rely on those things as I could be deceived by the devil or my own heart which is deceitful above all! ''

It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I started to really research it. The Bible is a complex thing, it has been used to condone slavery yet we wouldn't dream of condoning it today, it also says lots of things about not eating shell fish or mixing fabrics etc but we have to interpret the Bible. It was written thousands of years ago and translated many times in languages that don't always translate their meaning well. From my studies I am confident that the Bible doesn't say that the unsaved will suffer eternal concious torment. I think it points more to annihilation, I'm not a scholar and can't defend my position 100% but to be honest I don't think anyone can! there will always be people arguing over the Bible and I choose to believe that the whole theme of the Bible is love and Grace so I take passages that seem to suggest hell and look at them in the light of this.

It's a HUGE complicated emotional topic but I feel at peace in my own mind now. I'm taking a break from my Church because I get angry at the thought of worshipping with people who think it's acceptable for human beings to burn for all eternity and justify it with 'God's ways are higher than ours'

Have a look at the website 'unfundermentalist Christians' by John Shore, this has been of great comfort to me in realising that I'm not alone in this.

I still have moments of fear, what if I'm wrong and I am going to hell for not believing God's word? I guess that's where the OCD/anxiety comes in. It is called the doubting disease after all.

Bless you on your journey

[viking111]

Hi!
A fellow christian here. From historical perspective, Old testament was written as a kind of mytical representation of what happened in the middle east between 4-1 k BC. It's kind of people wanted to put their perspective about life so they wrote about hard times and understood it as God's punishment. However, in New Testament, it focuses on Jesus's message about love and forgiveness. You need to focus on New Testament, because it represents what Jesus is truly about, the message and all. Old Testament is more likely a representation of what people believed about their hard life in the old times, while New Testament is kind of more focusing about love, hope and forgiveness. I am not saying to disregard the Old Testament, but you must understand that it represents the view of life in the old days where life was really rough and people believe God made it rough for them.
I can't say I am a 100% believer, but I do believe there is a higher power as a system behind all science, physics and mathematics and I believe Jesus's message is truly a message of hope and love so it is worth looking into it.

[foureyedfool]

I hope you're doing better! I too struggled with fears of hell and the unforgivable sin (oh boy, that was a HARD one for me!). What helped me more than anything was studying universal reconciliation/Christian univeralism. 4 out of 6 of the earliest church fathers didn't believe in ECT (eternal conscious torment), one believed in annhiliationism (ie, that sinners simply cease to exist when they die) and only one believed in hell as we understand it today.

I also let go of the belief that the Bible is completely inerrant and perfect. There's just too much odd stuff in the Bible for me to accept it, but I realize it's easier said than done to simply change your belief on things. Anyway, again, I hope you're doing better, and hopefully it just helps you to know that there's other people (Christians :) ) out there who go through this stuff too!

[GlassPinata]

I went to catholic school when I was a child, and even at a young age, a fundamental paradox occurred to me: that if hell and eternal damnation are real, then there really cannot be any heaven- at least not for me personally- because I could never be happy if I knew that my loved ones were suffering eternal torment in hell.
Now that I am a parent, I feel that even more strongly.
If my children were in hell- which according to fundamentalist faith, they probably would be, seeing as how none of them is particularly religious- then in fact I would want to be there too, just to be with them and protect them as best I could. There could be no heaven for me under the circumstances, despite the fact that I am a baptized and confirmed (though long fallen-away) catholic.

I don't really believe in an afterlife of any sort.
This does not prevent me from (sometimes) feeling that there is a supreme being, or someone in charge. I just don't really believe that we continue to exist after we die. I do pray sometimes, because... why not? Even if there is no consciousness after death, that does not preclude the possibility of a loving god who might still be willing to help us out while we're here on this earth, right?

So that's where I stand on this whole religion thing.