View Full Version : Boundaries
I suppose boundaries are familiar to the majority if not all of the members here at NMP. We are doing well, so our confidence grows and we push those boundaries back. We take on more commitments, make more promises and this is all hunky dory while we remain well. But what happens when we hit a bad spell?
This is where I am now. I've been driving my daughter to college and her relevant placement since about last October. She hasn't had to catch a bus at any point. My wife has a catalogue of health issues including epilepsy and rheumatoid arthritis. My Dad is having work done on his house, new windows and back door, a new bathroom and I feel he wants me there while the work is carried out as he's 87. That said, he's a very independent 87 so why do I feel guilty if I'm not there? As anxiety sufferers we often forget we have an illness or 'condition'. Any thoughts on this folks?
snowghost57
07-03-17, 19:36
My therapist tells me to focus on what is in front of me and what I am doing at the moment. If you dad wants you there and you are worried about it, just ask him? Problem solved you won't need to think about it. Is driving your daughter to school stressing you out? I know with my anxiety I feel better if I face it, make a decision and go on to the next task. It's a constant process.
I think you have a carer mindset here, fishman, as you have a lot of responsibility for your wife's wellbeing and you have carried that over onto your daughter and now your Dad who you say is very independent but you still feel that you should be supporting him while he has this work done.
Don't get overwhelmed by all this? Your Dad may be quite ok dealing with this on his own-he may even prefer to be solely in charge of the workmen? You sound as if you have more than enough on your plate at the moment and you need to keep well for your wife's sake.
Obviously if your Dad asks for you to be there then that's a different matter but I wouldn't put yourself under more pressure if it's not essential?
I tend to agree with Pulisa.
Having a similar situation to you Fishman, it is a worry to our health too and as time as gone on, I have noticed that I am taking on more and more duties since recovering from my breakdown and learning to cope with anxiety.
The worry also is, will it make me very ill again?
Well, I had a chat to my therapist about this and she has noticed that I have taken on more duties, some which are probably not necessary, coupled with the worry and even guilty conscious that I should be doing this and that.
Her reply was, do what you feel able to do, but it is important to take time for yourself and more importantly some relaxation time that you deserve, like reading a book or something like that. You need to make time and even give yourself a slot so everyone is aware of that.
There will come a time when your father may need you more and for the time being you should make the most of it now. Like my dad when he was alive, will call you if he needs you and ask when he wants something done.
The worrying is the hardest to stop, but if you find yourself a little hobby, even if it's gardening or making your self an area where you can be alone for a bit, it will help. x
Thank you snowghost, pulisa and Carnation. Your input is greatly valued. I think you are right pulisa about the carer mindset. I try too often to be all things to all people and that is now taking it's toll in the form of increased anxiety. There is a fine line we walk in which we try not to fall into 'avoidance' but simultaneously not cross that line into overload. I'm pretty sure the workmen at my Dad's won't want too many people watching over them anyway.
Only about 10 days ago I was concreting posts and nailing panels, purchased myself from the builders merchant's, all without any anxiety of note. Yesterday I scurried outside to an ice cream van even though I didn't particularly want one, just to 'test myself' :lac:
Once again guys, thank you, it means a lot :hugs:
MyNameIsTerry
08-03-17, 16:58
I think the thing is, you adapt. If you broke your leg, you wouldn't be able to do these things but because of your mindset I bet you would still make yourself feel guilty for a time because you feel you are letting others down.
I agree with pulisa & Carnation. You are very clearly a caring person so you want to help others. The trouble is, we can be our own worst enemy when we lose the balance.
When you are struggling, pacing can be important. Sometimes we just push on and get through the other side but if not, change strategy.
There is some obvious things here. Your dad is old but independent. No doubt he greatly appreciates your help but I bet be would sort it all himself and be loathed to ask. It's a parent thing, I find, in that you go out of your way to try to do everything for your kids but don't tend to want it back when they try to do the same - because doing everything has been your role. Maybe your dad is like that? If so, as long as you extend the option to help, that may be enough? Then you face it if it even comes.
With your daughter, it's pretty simple. She may not realise you need a break but dad taxi can't go on forever. Who knows, she might like a bit more independence with the travel? It might make her plan forward more about driving?
It's your wife that sounds the difficult issue here in that she does need your support for a certain amount of things. She wouldn't want to running yourself into the ground though.
I can understand you may be hesitant discussing it with your wife as you may not want it to come across to imply you are burdened in case she thinks about herself but could you get her support on the other issues? She might already be concerned about you?
---------- Post added at 16:58 ---------- Previous post was at 15:57 ----------
Only about 10 days ago I was concreting posts and nailing panels, purchased myself from the builders merchant's, all without any anxiety of note. Yesterday I scurried outside to an ice cream van even though I didn't particularly want one, just to 'test myself' :lac:
:
Damn, I've just we realised it's a question about best use of fencing panels. :winks:
I think as 24/7 carers we deal with what we have to deal with but anything above and beyond that can quickly spiral into overload and increasing anxiety. I know I'm my own worst enemy with this but can't stop myself and this really frustrates me. If you can get the balance right and keep your anxiety in check it's so much better for you and for your wife as you know. Sometimes events mean that you just can't and you just have to do the best you can but here it seems that your Dad is pretty capable and probably more than happy to be in charge of things.
:blush: Terry...I did make it sound like fencing was a cure for anxiety didn't I. Thank you for your very logical and comprehensive analysis and you are of course right, we are frequently our own worst enemies. So often I wish I were a self-centred !@&# and cared only for myself. But then I probably wouldn't have anxiety if that were the case.
About my wife, you have hit the nail right on the head there. I have to be careful in what I say, including how I'm feeling in case she interprets this as me complaining or as you say, implying she is a burden. That said, she certainly doesn't want me to 'go under' in any way as she would suffer. I do the vast majority around the house, she would struggle without me around but this is not to denigrate her because her health problems cannot be helped any more than mine.
Oh Carnation...I love gardening but this last week I haven't been able to even think about the garden. Once the storm passes, maybe then.
---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------
I think as 24/7 carers we deal with what we have to deal with but anything above and beyond that can quickly spiral into overload and increasing anxiety. I know I'm my own worst enemy with this but can't stop myself and this really frustrates me. If you can get the balance right and keep your anxiety in check it's so much better for you and for your wife as you know. Sometimes events mean that you just can't and you just have to do the best you can but here it seems that your Dad is pretty capable and probably more than happy to be in charge of things.Ooops, missed this pulisa. It's difficult not to care isn't it. You care for someone too?
I'm a carer too Fishman. I've actually had a conveyer belt of parents to care for.
It's a huge responsibility with no support for the carer and very hard work.
That's why you need to have that 'Me' time, no matter how little it is. :hugs:
You know just how it is then Carnation. Give yourself a huge pat on the back, but yes it is a responsibility, one that can weigh heavily :hugs:
You feel guilty because he's your Dad, he's 87, he's having a lot of work done and you feel it's your responsibility to be there to help him. Perfectly natural but what you feel probably isn't what he's thinking. Like the others said, he would actually ask for help if he needed it and he wouldn't take all the work on unless he felt he could manage it because as your Dad, I'm sure he must be very aware of your situation and how much you already have on your plate.
I was often faced with the same feelings about my mother when she only had me to turn to. I'd feel guilty if I wasn't there for her so I tried to always be there for her. She used to jokingly say to me "Haven't I got a home to go to?" It was my own anxiety. She was very independent but she always knew I was there for there if she needed me just as I'm sure your Dad does too. All I feel you can do is say to him sometimes, I'm here if you need me but I'm quite sure he enjoys keeping busy. That's why he's such a good age too.
My Dad was always a very proud man and wanted to stay in charge of his own life as much as he could despite suffering from severe macular degeneration. He was very aware of my responsibilities as a carer for my daughter and never wanted to add to my workload. For him it was very important to be independent as men of his generation often want to be if possible.
I don't know about you, fishman, but I'm not "allowed" to be ill so it's important to know your limits and to recognise when you've taken on too much. My daughter is terrified if I show any signs of panic/anxiety so I'm not doing her any favours if I can't follow my own advice and pace myself. There is a very fine line between doing what you need to do as a carer and stepping back when you don't but it is just an ingrained pattern of carer behaviour. I'm sure most carers have this problem especially when it is a way of life for many years/decades.
Pulisa, I'm in a very similar position to you so I can relate and agree with everything you've said, and with others posts, especially about not being "allowed" to be ill.
Since reading this, there is something that I will always feel guilty about which was really beyond my control but I'll always feel bad about it. It was when my mother became too ill to cope. They suggested she needed a transfusion and I said to her I thought she should, thinking she would soon be home. On the day I took her to the hospice to have it done though, I felt so nervous that I had to use the loo which held us up. When we did leave, halfway up the road a hearse pulled out in front of us. I tried to slow down hoping that the hearse would turn off which it eventually did but it haunted me for the rest of the journey and ever since to this day because if I hadn't needed the loo, she would never have seen it. After reaching the hospice she deteriorated and a few weeks later after visiting her every day I lost her so she never did come home. I'll always feel bad about it but I know she wouldn't attach any blame to me.
We can do our best to care but we can't always protect those we love because life just isn't like that.
I really feel for you, Bill. Sometimes we just can't shift guilt even when we know that things were beyond our control. I have terrible guilt over how my Dad spent his last few days-in a flagship care home on a 14 day trial period-which ended tragically after 2 days. I couldn't look after him myself and entrusted him to a team who were found to be neglectful as a result of a year-long safeguarding enquiry. Things were beyond my control but I was the one who drove him to that place and persuaded him that he would be comfortable there..
You're right, we can't always protect those we love but we can have a damn good try and do the best we can under difficult circumstances. It sounds as though you have always been very supportive and caring of your parents, Bill, and sensitive to their needs.
Bill and pulisa, you are both clearly sensitive people and my heart goes out to you. Neither of you are to blame and I totally 'get' the guilt issue. I have an older brother who lives 4 miles closer to my Dad but hardly ever goes to see him. I don't think he even knows my Dad is having this work done. He also has no long term health condition that would keep him from visiting. And yet I still feel bad if I don't go and give my Dad some moral support?? Though come the day (Tuesday) I might feel ok? That's what drives me nuts about anxiety.
It's all that pesky anticipatory anxiety, fishman! I'm sure your Dad will contact you if he feels he needs some support on Tuesday but I'd concentrate on your daily duties (which I'm sure are extensive) and try and keep Tues at the back of your priority list? Come Tuesday then you can reassess the situation if needs be?
Fisherman, I think if it were me, I'd just give him a call on Tuesday and ask if everything's ok. He will probably be fine and it'll put your mind at rest.
Thank you Pulisa, my fate has always seemed to be a carer. When my father became ill I supported my mother to look after him and then I supported my mother after I lost my father. There is more family but I was the only local one. I loved my parents so I never thought of it as a burden. I wanted to be here for them regardless of any off days with anxiety or how anxious and worried I was when they became ill. However, there will be traumatic memories that will always stay with me but regardless of how I felt, I had to focus on being here for them. I try not to dwell on any guilt, the bad and sad times but try to remember the good times we shared. After I lost my father, I rang my mother in the evenings to make sure she was ok. It became a habit for nearly 6 years but I liked to know she was ok. It put my mind at rest just as I wouldn't leave her when taking her home until she was indoors and waved at the window so I knew she was safe. I think it's true what they say that when we're lucky enough to have wonderful parents, we should make the most of their company while we still have them. Time goes by too fast.
I completely agree with you, Bill. I was also lucky to have wonderful parents and would never consider them a burden-I'm sure I was burden to them over the years when I was growing up though!
I lost my Mum 27 years ago and my Dad stayed on in the family home until his death 2 years ago-I'm not going to count his final 2 days which were spent in the care home because his wish always was to leave his house for the final time in a hearse but medical necessity conspired against him.
He didn't know the extent of my "issues" and I never told him. He was a "coper" and I hope I am too-I'd like to think that I have inherited his determination to carry on at all costs because I think it's important with anxiety management, despite some "experts" telling us otherwise.
What I think is that there are two sets of parents that were extremely lucky to have two such caring and devoted children :)
Pulisa, I never told my parents the extent of my issues either. When I was a teen I tried to hide my anxiety but at times it would surface and they would notice. I must admit I just put them down to nerves and as just a part of who I was. I wasn't aware my issues had labels or titles. I think my parents thought they were just a part of me too when I couldn't hide them. I think if anything they probably thought I was just sensitive which as fishman said is quite true, probably Too sensitive. I also think in their day, anxiety didn't have a label but I'm quite sure it existed and they called it something like trouble with bad nerves.
When I went through my bad spell, they couldn't fail to notice because my father would collect me from hospital after od's. He never said anything about it on the way home though other than asking if I was ok and to remind me they were there for me. In truth, they new my reasons exactly and I know they were extremely worried but I think they felt it was something I just had to sort out myself which fortunately I did because later I was then to look after them when they needed me.
I don't think I was a burden to them though. We were very close and I'm sure I caused them a lot of concern. I can remember my mother telling me she was proud of me which stuck in my memory because I'd never heard her tell me that before and I also remember her saying she felt she wouldn't have gone on for so long after losing my father if it wasn't for me so hopefully I made up for some of the distress I must have caused them.
I must admit though after losing my mother, I realised how much she was helping me to keep going too so without her I had to find other ways to fill the void.
I feel I've learnt how to cope with most aspects of anxiety but one aspect I think I'll always struggle with is sad flashbacks. They say to think of the good times but even the good times make me feel sad because I know my parents will never come back. It seems no matter what I do, that void is always with me like a black dog that never leaves my side, even when on the outside I'm smiling and laughing. I manage to cope and I'm getting on with new projects but I can't help feeling the happiest times are behind me before I lost my parents and before I went through my bad spell. Strange isn't it.
Fishman, I just did my best to be here for my parents because of how much I loved them but I know I was extremely lucky to have them because they would do anything for anyone in need. I think the one stand out thing that I did for them which I felt really pleased about was for their 50th wedding anniversary. I told them I had made a reservation to take them out for an expensive meal at a hotel but what I didn't tell them was when they arrived, the rest of the family would be there too. See, even that memory makes me feel sad though because I've since lost other close members of the family who were present then too. That's life though, isn't it.
Pulisa, as you say, we just have to carry on at all costs because although life brings sadness, we live in the hope it can bring happiness too.
Just a little line I thought of which is how I thought of my parents-
Love is a four letter word but without love, there would be no five letter world.
Struggling, struggling, struggling. Amazing how we think we've got this condition under control until it comes knocking on our door again.
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