@ElectricAlice sad you deleted, think you had some awesome points

[TheGroundhog]

"I guess it's all about learning to accept uncertainty in life,which is why reassurance seeking will never give you the peace you desire."

You said this, and yes, I think you are so right and your op and subsequent posts were not bashing of THIS forum or the people in in at all. It's forums generally. When I started CBT a million years ago, in group, another member whispered to me to ignore the therapists, they will make you feel worse, if you want to feel better try this, and slipped me a bit of paper, on it the name of this forum! I came home googled and there I was. Perfect every thing that worries me I could just look on here and like a pp said convince myself I didn't have said illness. I still do it now, when I am struggling, it's like bloody crack.

Reassurance seeking will NEVER help you, if I show my therapist a mole and say I'm worried it could be skin cancer, she'll shrug and say 'yeah might be' she'll also insist I give it 3 months, yes months, before I check it out with the Dr (by which time I will probably be on something completely different as it will have failed to change. If I say I think I've got lung cancer, I'm terrified, I have to see the Dr this week, she says 'not on your life' If I say 'what if I die?' 'she says 'I'll come to your funeral'. You have to accept the uncertainty, you could have every single test under the sun, be given the all clear for ever disease known to man and as you walk away from the hospital clutching your results, your body could start the cell mutation that leads to cancer, or you could get bitten by an inset and die of sepsis. Until you live with not knowing, live with vague symptoms, accept your body is a living thing with sensations and feelings you will never feel get any relief. The reason we all constantly hang off of 'what if?' is because this time it might be true, and you know what it might be.

If the forum all ran like therapy it would be great, some of the replies are spot on, some of it is enormously helpful, hard ass it what anxiety suffers need, some will rage and rail and say that's wrong, but if you have been the right side of recovery or in therapy you'll know it's true.

It worries me the sheer enormous numbers of people viewing this specific forum often close to 2,000, when I joined it was generally a few hundred at most, also how incredibly young some of the posters are, the advent of the internet is feeding people's fears like never before.

Thanks to the poster on the thread who saw fit to call me out on posting on that thread and starting one of my own. The one I started asked for no reassurance, did not mention my symptoms, did not mention my trigger. I generally don't come here often now. I am generally recovered, but I have had HA for 20+ years, I relapse, sometimes catastrophically. I posted yesterday because I was desperate and broken and had no one to connect with. I also visited the Dr and called the Samaritans. I have had a massively triggering event, and am struggling to move forward. But no doubt I will, I've done it before and I'll do it again.

[swajj]

I don't like threads being pulled. You shouldn't pull threads because you don't like the responses you received. I put thought, time and effort into my post on that thread. So did other people.

[axolotl]

I think it's a shame too as the central point is very valid. We nearly all came to this forum for reassurance, because we were scared about some "symptom" or another. Some people have Health Anxiety, some don't and are just temporary alarmed by something that worries them, but it's hard to tell them apart sometimes.

I started here reassurance seeking, and have used the forum more recently to work on anxiety (but had to take a break when I was at my worst as it can be an environment that pops brand new fears in your head when your mind is susceptible). I have learnt reassurance seeking, by doing my own cack-handed "research" or directly asking on forums, is the worst possible thing to do. It's a realisation that the forum isn't about lymph nodes, or ALS, or brain tumours, or colon cancer... it's a forum about anxiety itself. In 80% of posts or more, the fears are interchangeable, they're arbitrary and the advice should be the same - work on your anxiety, not convincing yourself you've not got an unlikely deadly disease, because that specific disease isn't the root of it, and another will pop up as soon as you've knocked that one down.

Sadly there are some users stuck in spirals on here who don't want to hear that advice, because they think what they need is reassurance, but all they want to do is have someone going "No you don't have ALS... or MS either... no you don't have a brain tumour... and no you don't have liver cancer now... and your lymph nodes are fine...". It's a position you have to be sympathetic to, but it's a position that comes from not understanding how anxiety works. And as this is a forum about anxiety, we have to be firm in giving tips about anxiety, however much that isn't what people want to hear, not helping them swat every new fear away. We've seen some users at that cycle for years, and those of us who kept that going (myself included) are guilty of keeping them wound up by pandering to their anxious reassurance-seeking. I actually feel bad about this now.

So yes, the deleted post's central point that some people would be better off stopping posting reassurance post after reassurance post, to the point of giving this forum a break for a bit if they can't resist, is actually a responsible stance to take.

[ElectricAlice]

"I guess it's all about learning to accept uncertainty in life,which is why reassurance seeking will never give you the peace you desire."

You said this, and yes, I think you are so right and your op and subsequent posts were not bashing of THIS forum or the people in in at all. It's forums generally. When I started CBT a million years ago, in group, another member whispered to me to ignore the therapists, they will make you feel worse, if you want to feel better try this, and slipped me a bit of paper, on it the name of this forum! I came home googled and there I was. Perfect every thing that worries me I could just look on here and like a pp said convince myself I didn't have said illness. I still do it now, when I am struggling, it's like bloody crack.

Reassurance seeking will NEVER help you, if I show my therapist a mole and say I'm worried it could be skin cancer, she'll shrug and say 'yeah might be' she'll also insist I give it 3 months, yes months, before I check it out with the Dr (by which time I will probably be on something completely different as it will have failed to change. If I say I think I've got lung cancer, I'm terrified, I have to see the Dr this week, she says 'not on your life' If I say 'what if I die?' 'she says 'I'll come to your funeral'. You have to accept the uncertainty, you could have every single test under the sun, be given the all clear for ever disease known to man and as you walk away from the hospital clutching your results, your body could start the cell mutation that leads to cancer, or you could get bitten by an inset and die of sepsis. Until you live with not knowing, live with vague symptoms, accept your body is a living thing with sensations and feelings you will never feel get any relief. The reason we all constantly hang off of 'what if?' is because this time it might be true, and you know what it might be.

If the forum all ran like therapy it would be great, some of the replies are spot on, some of it is enormously helpful, hard ass it what anxiety suffers need, some will rage and rail and say that's wrong, but if you have been the right side of recovery or in therapy you'll know it's true.

It worries me the sheer enormous numbers of people viewing this specific forum often close to 2,000, when I joined it was generally a few hundred at most, also how incredibly young some of the posters are, the advent of the internet is feeding people's fears like never before.

Thanks to the poster on the thread who saw fit to call me out on posting on that thread and starting one of my own. The one I started asked for no reassurance, did not mention my symptoms, did not mention my trigger. I generally don't come here often now. I am generally recovered, but I have had HA for 20+ years, I relapse, sometimes catastrophically. I posted yesterday because I was desperate and broken and had no one to connect with. I also visited the Dr and called the Samaritans. I have had a massively triggering event, and am struggling to move forward. But no doubt I will, I've done it before and I'll do it again.


Thank you very much :) it means a lot to know I in some way did help you. And that was my intention. So thank you for understanding! :) I wish you so much luck in your recovery. :hugs: You also have some incredibly helpful points! Keep at it! You will get there, you definitely know the methods that work for you and that's half the battle. I don't think it was fair of that poster to highlight the fact that you had asked for help on another post. This wasn't useful or kind. At least your trying. :)

The reason I deleted the post is because I hate confrontation and I was feeling quite attacked by some people. Even though everyone is entitled to their opinions, using personal insults really did hurt my feelings. Especially when my intention was truly only to help. The post just became a bit of a battle ground and to be honest it was causing me a lot of anxiety, and I kept worrying about negative replies.

So I thought to save upsetting anyone else deleting it would be the best thing to do.

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------


I think it's a shame too as the central point is very valid. We nearly all came to this forum for reassurance, because we were scared about some "symptom" or another. Some people have Health Anxiety, some don't and are just temporary alarmed by something that worries them, but it's hard to tell them apart sometimes.

I started here reassurance seeking, and have used the forum more recently to work on anxiety (but had to take a break when I was at my worst as it can be an environment that pops brand new fears in your head when your mind is susceptible). I have learnt reassurance seeking, by doing my own cack-handed "research" or directly asking on forums, is the worst possible thing to do. It's a realisation that the forum isn't about lymph nodes, or ALS, or brain tumours, or colon cancer... it's a forum about anxiety itself. In 80% of posts or more, the fears are interchangeable, they're arbitrary and the advice should be the same - work on your anxiety, not convincing yourself you've not got an unlikely deadly disease, because that specific disease isn't the root of it, and another will pop up as soon as you've knocked that one down.

Sadly there are some users stuck in spirals on here who don't want to hear that advice, because they think what they need is reassurance, but all they want to do is have someone going "No you don't have ALS... or MS either... no you don't have a brain tumour... and no you don't have liver cancer now... and your lymph nodes are fine...". It's a position you have to be sympathetic to, but it's a position that comes from not understanding how anxiety works. And as this is a forum about anxiety, we have to be firm in giving tips about anxiety, however much that isn't what people want to hear, not helping them swat every new fear away. We've seen some users at that cycle for years, and those of us who kept that going (myself included) are guilty of keeping them wound up by pandering to their anxious reassurance-seeking. I actually feel bad about this now.

So yes, the deleted post's central point that some people would be better off stopping posting reassurance post after reassurance post, to the point of giving this forum a break for a bit if they can't resist, is actually a responsible stance to take.



Thank you, this means a lot to me too. As this is exactly the point I was trying to make. Sadly others misinterpreted what I meant.

[swajj]

I understood your point and if you read my post you would know that I agreed with you. I just thought it was unnecessary for someone, who claims to have been lurking for years, to join the forum just to attack ISB. If that person has truly been lurking all that time, then he or she would be aware that ISB has dedicated a lot of time and effort over the years to helping other HA sufferers. I stayed out of it because I know you have also done that. That poster should have stayed out of it too.

[Catherine S]

Thanks swajj. It's not easy being me :)

ISB x

[swajj]

It's not easy being me either. lol

Seriously, you are one of the most supportive people here. :)

[MyNameIsTerry]

Alice,

Your point about disconnecting from NMP is far from new. I was surprised by what I saw as it's always something on here support. :shrug:

There have been plenty on here saying the same without what happened.

Some time ago a whole load of the HA people left to join a Facebook group because the HA board was so geared towards reassurance seeking rather than recovery.

I didn't see it as a criticism of NMP. Quite frankly, NMP is not set up to deal with reassurance seeking and Nic herself has said it in the past, as have other Admins. There is a sticky on the OCD board alluding to this too.

From my experience at walk-in groups, coordinators spot this and change the discussion to get the person to focus on something else. That's impossible here, even if Admin had the time to guide the forum.

---------- Post added at 13:03 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------




Sadly there are some users stuck in spirals on here who don't want to hear that advice, because they think what they need is reassurance, but all they want to do is have someone going "No you don't have ALS... or MS either... no you don't have a brain tumour... and no you don't have liver cancer now... and your lymph nodes are fine...". It's a position you have to be sympathetic to, but it's a position that comes from not understanding how anxiety works. And as this is a forum about anxiety, we have to be firm in giving tips about anxiety, however much that isn't what people want to hear, not helping them swat every new fear away. We've seen some users at that cycle for years, and those of us who kept that going (myself included) are guilty of keeping them wound up by pandering to their anxious reassurance-seeking. I actually feel bad about this now.
.

I think you are being harsh on yourself. A doctor does the same, a therapist does the same.

Getting people to challenge their thinking doesn't have to be a negative.

I think when you don't attempt to get them to do this, you can be feeding it. Also engaging too much in detail can feed the obsession too if you don't challenge it also (I know I've done this on occasion).

Your posts come across as challenging their fears.

[Fishmanpa]

So yes, the deleted post's central point that some people would be better off stopping posting reassurance post after reassurance post, to the point of giving this forum a break for a bit if they can't resist, is actually a responsible stance to take.

Reassurance is very easy to come by. In fact, reassurance can be found in the psychological pet food aisle with all the other dragon foods at your local mental health market ;)

Much to an OP's displeasure, I've taken that stance many times. The replies have been less than favorable as you might expect, typically saying "That's what the forum is for". My argument is that it's just feeding the dragon and keeping them stuck in the cycle. Sadly, it's a very common theme and realistically will never end for some :(

Therapists will discourage participation due to the negative effects of reassurance seeking. As I've mentioned before, many here moved on when they realized this and in fact, started a FB page dedicated to recovery (reassurance not allowed and highly discouraged).

Positive thoughts

[Gary A]

Im just glad that there was an argument on here that didn't involve me.

If the world ends tonight don't be surprised. :noangel:

[MyNameIsTerry]

http://yoursmiles.org/tsmile/hug/t4624.gif (http://yoursmiles.org/t-hug.php)

---------- Post added at 13:46 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------


Im just glad that there was an argument on here that didn't involve me.

If the world ends tonight don't be surprised. :noangel:

If it helps, here's a pic of your favourite Nicola Sturgeon...


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzYDnXW4uTWlY6ScOk83JlGGeiorhtj-9wTNhRUW6zN7wVzDY8ag


...oh wait a minute...:biggrin:

[ElectricAlice]

Alice,

Your point about disconnecting from NMP is far from new. I was surprised by what I saw as it's always something on here support. :shrug:

There have been plenty on here saying the same without what happened.

Some time ago a whole load of the HA people left to join a Facebook group because the HA board was so geared towards reassurance seeking rather than recovery.

I didn't see it as a criticism of NMP. Quite frankly, NMP is not set up to deal with reassurance seeking and Nic herself has said it in the past, as have other Admins. There is a sticky on the OCD board alluding to this too.
.

Thank you Terry. Yes I was pretty surprised at some of the hostility I received too. As I have often seen users say things such as 'your therapist would not approve of the use of this forum'.

I was accused of being 'arrogant' and 'waffling' when really my sincerest intent was to help.

I agree that NMP isn't set up to deal with reassurance. You're very right.

[MyNameIsTerry]

Thank you Terry. Yes I was pretty surprised at some of the hostility I received too. As I have often seen users say things such as 'your therapist would not approve of the use of this forum'.

I was accused of being 'arrogant' and 'waffling' when really my sincerest intent was to help.

I agree that NMP isn't set up to deal with reassurance. You're very right.

Leaving the clash aside, there were many good points in the thread.

Lisa's point about using the forum the right way was one. My therapist encouraged me to join the charity walk-ins because I was isolated. I believe Cath touched on that too? I don't have reassurance seeking compulsions so it was never a problem for me in that way.

There are also a lot of positive boards & threads too aiming to help recovery. These places can be a goldmine of useful avenues to explore in recovery. I've learned loads and been springboarded to research more thoroughly.

But again Cath made points about understanding those in spirals and how we have to accept it. We can try and help them out of it but not all are ready.

Your concept was no different from stopping Googling really. It makes sense for those that have a problem with it. As a non HAer, Googling has never been an issue for me either. But for those who do have an issue, retraining their thoughts is essential as well as cutting that reaction. Then you can Google normally just as your reassurance seeking can be normalised so it's no longer an issue feeding the obsession.

[swajj]

Im just glad that there was an argument on here that didn't involve me.

If the world ends tonight don't be surprised. :noangel:


lol

[ElectricAlice]

Im just glad that there was an argument on here that didn't involve me.

If the world ends tonight don't be surprised. :noangel:

:roflmao: I was wondering where you were!

[Gary A]

:roflmao: I was wondering where you were!

I was mostly drunk to be honest. :whistles:

[ElectricAlice]

I was mostly drunk to be honest. :whistles:

Hahaha. Your input would have been even better then! :yahoo: