View Full Version : Apathy
I've noticed when on some online forums such as for social anxiety there is sometimes very little willingness to change. It like people are looking to find somewhere where its acceptable to be content with very little.
The OP will make a thread stating an issue they're dealing with, which is often a moderate/serious one, then most people will not give solutions. Instead I've seen others enabling the issue to persist! With a tendency to tell the OP what they wanted to hear to enable them to rot in their comfort zone. Sometimes the OP will lash out at good advice. What if their friends or family knew they were being enabled like that?
Being social on here with banter and all of that is fine but if there's no intention to change, what's the point in making a thread asking for help? What's the point of these forums?
Not all of us are professionals on these forums but we have experienced problems and its a great opportunity to get free advice, support, guidance and different perspectives to a problem. Its weird to me that often very lonely or isolated people with shared difficulties can get together on a community where they are accepted but they won't truly help each other out?
I have depression, social anxiety and agoraphobia so I wanted to add that extra support from hundreds/thousands of people across the globe. All I feel is apathy... Maybe I've completely misunderstood something??
My personal experience is that social anxiety and isolation does indeed cause apathy. Apathy then becomes part of the problem. Unfortunately I don't see an easy solution. If you suggest to someone an ambitious plan to tackle their problem - then it may seem unfeasible and induce more apathy.
I've noticed when on some online forums such as for social anxiety there is sometimes very little willingness to change. It like people are looking to find somewhere where its acceptable to be content with very little.
The OP will make a thread stating an issue they're dealing with, which is often a moderate/serious one, then most people will not give solutions. Instead I've seen others enabling the issue to persist! With a tendency to tell the OP what they wanted to hear to enable them to rot in their comfort zone. Sometimes the OP will lash out at good advice. What if their friends or family knew they were being enabled like that?
Being social on here with banter and all of that is fine but if there's no intention to change, what's the point in making a thread asking for help? What's the point of these forums?
Not all of us are professionals on these forums but we have experienced problems and its a great opportunity to get free advice, support, guidance and different perspectives to a problem. Its weird to me that often very lonely or isolated people with shared difficulties can get together on a community where they are accepted but they won't truly help each other out?
I have depression, social anxiety and agoraphobia so I wanted to add that extra support from hundreds/thousands of people across the globe. All I feel is apathy... Maybe I've completely misunderstood something??
This is spot on Bee84 to the letter :) I too have seen it many times then another poster will chime in saying oh I am like that too etc etc and so the cycle continues :eek: Yes I too am very isolated trying to reach out to others who are in the same boat not just for words on a screen but for meets that to me is truly helping them out, but some cant/wont see it this way sad really. Yes your post makes a lot of sense Bee84 Thanks Cheers
---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:15 ----------
My personal experience is that social anxiety and isolation does indeed cause apathy. Apathy then becomes part of the problem. Unfortunately I don't see an easy solution. If you suggest to someone an ambitious plan to tackle their problem - then it may seem unfeasible and induce more apathy. Absolutely there is a solution to the problem Dave1 when some one requests a meet go for it even though it might be tough and hard it has to be done to move forward I think :) Cheers
Hey bee84,
I get what you are trying to say, and I (mostly) agree. But I feel I have to add my two cents to your analysis.
I believe social anxiety, more than any other form of anxiety, is related to someone's personality. Socially anxious people are often shy and introverted. Now, one could argue that those attributes cause the anxiety or vice-versa. It's the chicken and the egg question. That being said, I don't necessarily think shyness or being introverted are bad character traits. On the contrary. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: an OP that asks how to deal with a specific situation may not _always_ want to change in a way that seems acceptacle by a society where being loud and obnoxious is rewarded. He or she may only want to find a way to deal with an unavoidable social situation, and not have people lecture about how he or she is not behaving in the "correct" manner.
I myself have social anxiety, among other things (like health anxiety.) I know that I am socially awkward, but it was never an problem for me personaly. Although it has sometimes caused issues because I didn't (and still don't) act in a way others expected. I sometimes have ideas and theories which are unconventional, and people seem to be judging me because of them. Let them. I do not want to change who I am only to please someone. Call me a non-confirmist, but that's just the way I am. And I think many people on here are non-conformist in a some way or another. I found people here are much more open-minded than the general population. Maybe that's why the folk on here seem to get along well.
I am in no way trying to invalidate your analysis, I just wanted to provide a possible explanation for the perceived unwillingness to change. Of course, if someone asks for advice on how to change, and then rejects every idea, it's obviously resistance to change.
--deckard
Hey bee84,
I get what you are trying to say, and I (mostly) agree. But I feel I have to add my two cents to your analysis.
I believe social anxiety, more than any other form of anxiety, is related to someone's personality. Socially anxious people are often shy and introverted. Now, one could argue that those attributes cause the anxiety or vice-versa. It's the chicken and the egg question. That being said, I don't necessarily think shyness or being introverted are bad character traits. On the contrary. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: an OP that asks how to deal with a specific situation may not _always_ want to change in a way that seems acceptacle by a society where being loud and obnoxious is rewarded. He or she may only want to find a way to deal with an unavoidable social situation, and not have people lecture about how he or she is not behaving in the "correct" manner.
I myself have social anxiety, among other things (like health anxiety.) I know that I am socially awkward, but it was never an problem for me personaly. Although it has sometimes caused issues because I didn't (and still don't) act in a way others expected. I sometimes have ideas and theories which are unconventional, and people seem to be judging me because of them. Let them. I do not want to change who I am only to please someone. Call me a non-confirmist, but that's just the way I am. And I think many people on here are non-conformist in a some way or another. I found people here are much more open-minded than the general population. Maybe that's why the folk on here seem to get along well.
I am in no way trying to invalidate your analysis, I just wanted to provide a possible explanation for the perceived unwillingness to change. Of course, if someone asks for advice on how to change, and then rejects every idea, it's obviously resistance to change.
--deckardIf I may add my 2 cents to this I must disagree to some extent it's not necessarily down to someone's personality why they might be shy or introverted. I personally believe outside experiences from the past can clearly turn some one from a extrovert happy confidient person to the opposite Ie in to a introverted shy person. I have found this to be true with all the knock backs I have been having my confidence and happy side is diminishing fast. some will be born this way for sure but not all I am sure others will relate to what I am saying :) Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
02-05-17, 05:38
Bee,
I think you are being a bit hard on yourself here. If you want to help others, it's within you power to do that. Don't worry so much about whether everyone else wants to do the same. You can make your difference.
I've seen you posting on threads helping people. Whilst you feel change is needed on a more widescale, every little helps.
We are all at different stages of our recovery. It tends to fall more to those further along to help those further behind. Those further behind may be struggling to see outside of their situations. Those further ahead have been on a journey that has proven to them that those anxious thoughsts were skewed.
I would be generalising to say that those struggling more can't offer as much help but I think it's the case for some. People in spirals struggle with this but then I still see those who do try to help others. Some are perhaps more naturally drawn towards helping and this plays a part in their willingness, despite their issues at the time.
Look at the HA board. Couldn't you say the same about that? There is an element of people just discussing symptoms rather than lookng outside of them and pulling themselves out of their anxiety. So, it's perhaps a bigger problem?
Please don't let low moods & negative thinking make you believe you are not helping and that everyone is just sinking into a rhythm. Whilst there is truth in it, I believe it's skewed.
:flowers:
I have gone through the people pleasing problem to feel self worth. I wouldn't want anyone to pretend they're OK when they are not. When I signed up, I had to block out the HA board in my settings because I absolutely couldn't stand it. But I have no experience with HA myself.
Yeah its usually introverts and shy folk that get to be physical shut ins. They can get stuck with social stigmas, its unfair to be treated that way by society. I'd say that its usually creative open minded people that get crippled and depressed by their emotional non-expressiveness. In the end, you stop feeling like you could even care.
Yes I forget that I have been pressured and still get pressure from people sometimes who are further along on the path of healing.
They don't need to care about me at all, they can continue on their journeys. I can adopt the same attitude about this, carrying on down my own path.
---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------
If I may add my 2 cents to this I must disagree to some extent it's not necessarily down to someone's personality why they might be shy or introverted. I personally believe outside experiences from the past can clearly turn some one from a extrovert happy confidient person to the opposite Ie in to a introverted shy person. I have found this to be true with all the knock backs I have been having my confidence and happy side is diminishing fast. some will be born this way for sure but not all I am sure others will relate to what I am saying :) Cheers
Are you saying that you used to be an extrovert?
I have gone through the people pleasing problem to feel self worth. I wouldn't want anyone to pretend they're OK when they are not. When I signed up, I had to block out the HA board in my settings because I absolutely couldn't stand it. But I have no experience with HA myself.
Yeah its usually introverts and shy folk that get to be physical shut ins. They can get stuck with social stigmas, its unfair to be treated that way by society. I'd say that its usually creative open minded people that get crippled and depressed by their emotional non-expressiveness. In the end, you stop feeling like you could even care.
Yes I forget that I have been pressured and still get pressure from people sometimes who are further along on the path of healing.
They don't need to care about me at all, they can continue on their journeys. I can adopt the same attitude about this, carrying on down my own path.
---------- Post added at 16:57 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------
Are you saying that you used to be an extrovert? Yes more so years ago ( Iam still not shy) but tend to now get anxious when I am asking for a meet up in case the answer is no, one can only take so many knock backs cant they and then they either give up and don't try any more have felt like doing this recently or they just go back in to their shells both is sad really. I am also trusting people less and less now, well apart from the odd one or two so thank you, you know who you are :) :) Cheers
Bee I definitely feel like introverts are treated differently. Even before I developed anxiety I was an introvert. Have always preferred to be alone etc (excluding my ex partner and I presume any future partners). I don't like loud noise, being around excitable people etc, I've no interest in small talk and so on.
I'm always told I'm boring, miserable, don't want to do anything and so on and it irritates me to the extreme. I couldn't imagine telling an extrovert they're too loud and jolly as it's rude, but perfectly ok for people to tell me how boring I am. I'm sick of it.
Sorry for the mini rant. Just truly sick of feeling like I'm boring just because I don't like the same things as others. The same people who call me boring for not wanting to go anywhere, are the same people who would go abroad and sit on the beach.... Now that is extremely boring in my eyes. I'd rather go sight seeing and exploring.
Bee I definitely feel like introverts are treated differently. Even before I developed anxiety I was an introvert. Have always preferred to be alone etc (excluding my ex partner and I presume any future partners). I don't like loud noise, being around excitable people etc, I've no interest in small talk and so on.
I'm always told I'm boring, miserable, don't want to do anything and so on and it irritates me to the extreme. I couldn't imagine telling an extrovert they're too loud and jolly as it's rude, but perfectly ok for people to tell me how boring I am. I'm sick of it.
Sorry for the mini rant. Just truly sick of feeling like I'm boring just because I don't like the same things as others. The same people who call me boring for not wanting to go anywhere, are the same people who would go abroad and sit on the beach.... Now that is extremely boring in my eyes. I'd rather go sight seeing and exploring.
When I was about 10 there was this boy and girl I played with for a while. The girl was extroverted. She wasn't around one day and in a quiet lull the boy said "you're boring I wish xxxxxx was here." Which made my heart sink.
I've had my interests critiqued. For example video games aren't OK for an adult to play for some reason. I happen to love it. I gave it up for awhile because of what people think and that is exactly how people get depressed.
I love looking within and contemplation. I could be more action oriented if I chose to be. I don't tell off anyone for being loud. Unless they were rude or something I wouldn't feel put off. Extroverts probably could do well to get in touch with their introspective/introverted side.
When I was about 10 there was this boy and girl I played with for a while. The girl was extroverted. She wasn't around one day and in a quiet lull the boy said "you're boring I wish xxxxxx was here." Which made my heart sink.
I've had my interests critiqued. For example video games aren't OK for an adult to play for some reason. I happen to love it. I gave it up for awhile because of what people think and that is exactly how people get depressed.
I love looking within and contemplation. I could be more action oriented if I choose to. Extroverts probably could do well to get in touch with their introspective/introverted side.Hi Bee84 the thing is children can be very cruel and insensitive towards each other still hurts mind you, you aren't boring, just different to the others, and there is nothing wrong with being different atall :) I too was labelled as the same as you so you aren't alone on this :) and it does make you very depressed too. Cheers
Yeah sometimes I don't outwardly express my excitement but I do still feel it. I used to deeply resent and hate him for what he said. Back then I had a negative lens and would only be focused on my catalogue of criticisms received in general. But as I've gotten older its been quite easy to forget and forgive these kids from back then. Forgiving grown ups is the harder part.
I was inspired to start this thread when I noticed this unwillingness for change on another SA board, which I left. They were literally egging each other on, on the downward spiral into isolation which I found insensitive, dumb and stupid. Sometimes we can need tough love in small doses.
They seemed to be very cliquey and probably not even willing to meet up with each other in real life. It was all so fake to me. I usually don't fit in any place so its not that bad that I left.
The video game thing completely confuses me, what is the difference between say playing a game for 4 hours at night, or watching TV (obviously it's different, but I mean why is one more acceptable than the other). My ex and all his friends play video games, they are in their mid/late 20's with no signs of slowing down.
---------- Post added at 12:47 ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 ----------
Also my child doesn't express excitement much either and she has been called 'boring', it makes me so angry because I don't want her thinking she's boring because she isn't excitable and I am not happy somebody else would label my child as boring. We had to take her to the doctors the other week and the nurse even said to her "You're so serious" it really angered me. Those are the kind of comments that make people not want to socialise. I thought it was extremely rude, but my ex couldn't see how. My daughter was not happy and I could see the look on her face.
As long as you love something and it isn't truly hurting anyone, its such a good idea to do it as much as possible.
If these people are so sociable why oh why do they feel the need to put people down? Isn't that unfriendly? If people want to, they can just pretend to feel happy, so its not always genuine confidence we are seeing in someone. There isn't any need to draw comparisons.
Most people I know have 'opinions' like this. Yet we are the negative ones. I'm not going to lie and say I've never thought negatively about others, but I know I've never called people names even if it's something mild such as 'boring'.
I think health professionals should know better, and actually I would have politely said something assertiveness is so important in these situations :) even though I am quite low in my mood I would have had to say something :) It's rude and isn't necessary as it doesn't help the sufferer does it?! Cheers
snowghost57
18-05-17, 21:03
Well cheer up Bigboy! I can understand where you are coming from Bee. I saw a post somewhere about Facebook groups for anxiety. Wow, big mistake, the group I found all they did was reinforce their fears! I was like, this is not for me. I came to this site looking for suggestions and help and many people have posted informative threads and I've even made some friends. I too get frustrated when I see the same posts over and over again and no one is taking the steps to get better. We can offer support only as we are not doctors. I now just skim past the posts that I know are repetitive. There's an old saying, "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything" I just hope everyone finds the peace they seek on this forum.
I was called "boring" only once as I can recall. All because I was offered a alcoholic drink. I was at a party. I don't drink alcohol. I went because I knew there would be trouble if I did not go.
I do not like parties. Any sort of party. I am not miserable either. Whatever life throws at me I refuse to be miserable. I make people laugh, as I have no sense of direction. It amuses people I know,
I like conversation. I will help anyone if I can.
I found a new Butchers shop in town the other day. I asked for one chicken breast.
Left one or right one. I said anyone will do. Ok the butcher said, some people prefer the left one. Well the other butcher came in to the conversation. What a laugh we had in the shop. It's things like that. Makes my day.
I know my punctuation is not good, but I know you won't mind:)
Well cheer up Bigboy! I can understand where you are coming from Bee. I saw a post somewhere about Facebook groups for anxiety. Wow, big mistake, the group I found all they did was reinforce their fears! I was like, this is not for me. I came to this site looking for suggestions and help and many people have posted informative threads and I've even made some friends. I too get frustrated when I see the same posts over and over again and no one is taking the steps to get better. We can offer support only as we are not doctors. I now just skim past the posts that I know are repetitive. There's an old saying, "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything" I just hope everyone finds the peace they seek on this forum. Thanks snowghost :) You know still finding it hard when I see other folk enjoying them selves wether it's a drink outside in a pub,or just 2 people having a walk together it makes me sad thinking this should be me. Every year passes me by and Iam no nearer to reaching my goal ahh Thanks again :) Cheers
As long as you love something and it isn't truly hurting anyone, its such a good idea to do it as much as possible.
If these people are so sociable why oh why do they feel the need to put people down? Isn't that unfriendly? If people want to, they can just pretend to feel happy, so its not always genuine confidence we are seeing in someone. There isn't any need to draw comparisons.So True Bee :) I think some actually may have problems themselves and probably feel they need to think they are better or more powerful hence they have to put others down :eek: it's a nasty trait to have and glad I don't posses this triat :) We all cr@p from the same hole and no one is better than any one else we should be all equal IMHO :) Cheers
So True Bee :) I think some actually may have problems themselves and probably feel they need to think they are better or more powerful hence they have to put others down :eek: it's a nasty trait to have and glad I don't posses this triat :) We all cr@p from the same hole and no one is better than any one else we should be all equal IMHO :) Cheers
Exactly. We do have different races, genders, upbringings, sexual orientations and personalities but we are all human. We all have the same creator/god, I'm sure we all had to have come from the exact same place. Being prejudiced to those different is foolish because we are the same.
There's no power to get from others really. People watch and learn to put people that they feel are not exactly like them down, they believe that's the way to success. It's a crazy world.
---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 13:43 ----------
I was called "boring" only once as I can recall. All because I was offered a alcoholic drink. I was at a party. I don't drink alcohol. I went because I knew there would be trouble if I did not go.
I do not like parties. Any sort of party. I am not miserable either. Whatever life throws at me I refuse to be miserable. I make people laugh, as I have no sense of direction. It amuses people I know,
I like conversation. I will help anyone if I can.
I found a new Butchers shop in town the other day. I asked for one chicken breast.
Left one or right one. I said anyone will do. Ok the butcher said, some people prefer the left one. Well the other butcher came in to the conversation. What a laugh we had in the shop. It's things like that. Makes my day.
I know my punctuation is not good, but I know you won't mind:)
I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates parties! Life's too short to go to any of those. Small gatherings are just fine. I wasted most of my 20s pleasing others by attending things out of obligation. Last year, I finally took action and (awkwardly) declined a family members fiftieth birthday party via email stating "I'm an introvert so I hate parties." I'm glad I didn't go though. It's really bloody hard to say no for me. If I'd have said it sooner when I was younger, it would've been easier.
I wouldn't want someone forcing themselves to enjoy my company, showing up when they deeply did not want to (which has happened). That isn't fair. So yeah I really don't care, whether or not they think I'm boring, even if its family. Yes simple laughs, like you say, are very much welcome but I'm sorry to say are scarce for me most of the time :shrug:
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