View Full Version : Huge Tower Block Fire (London)
Just switched on BBC 1 seeing what was on next BBC news feed Huge Tower Block engulfed in flames it's horrendous 6 ppl dead 50 are injured, and many more homeless :eek: the building had recently had been totally refurbished so what caused this fire and the way it spread quickly at this stage no one knows shocking any one else knew about this? Cheers
bottleblond
14-06-17, 12:33
Just awful Bboy. I was just watching the news and it said although the work on the flats had been signed off, it's possible there was subsequent work going on which they are now looking in to. :shrug: What a sad thing to happen. My heart goes out to all. x
Update: Just heard that a plastic cladding was used outside the building to probably make the building more appealing to look at WTF Plastic burns very quickly so that is a serious mistake in my book. Iam appalled there was no highriser sprinkler systems installed at least in communal areas and stair wells (which there was only one central stairwell) No emergency lighting in corridors or stair wells Fire alarms again none in main escape routes, apparently there is no current requirement to have a communal fire alarm in a building that holds 600 ppl? Fire doors to contain the fire to a individual apartment (source of the fire) should hold back the fire and contain it for 30 mins within that apartment is being looked at. Serious questions are now being asked after all the refurb cost £8 million very sad. Cheers
I've never seen anything like it in my life. The residents are saying there were no sprinklers, fire alarms, or working smoke detectors. Also the outside of the building was made of plastic or something and went up like a match, it was said.
Why do the poorer folk get dehumanized? It's so sad.
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Update: Just heard that a plastic cladding was used outside the building to probably make the building more appealing to look at WTF Plastic burns very quickly so that is a serious mistake in my book. Iam appalled there was no highriser sprinkler systems installed at least in communal areas and stair wells (which there was only one central stairwell) No emergency lighting in corridors or stair wells Fire alarms again none in main escape routes, apparently there is no current requirement to have a communal fire alarm in a building that holds 600 ppl? Fire doors to contain the fire to a individual apartment (source of the fire) should hold back the fire and contain it for 30 mins within that apartment is being looked at. Serious questions are now being asked after all the refurb cost £8 million very sad. Cheers
Yeah I just posted straight after you and cannot believe this, so many major atrocities happening in London, very sad.
Catherine S
14-06-17, 12:45
Ive been watching this on the news here in Germany all morning and to see that 27 floor tower block completely engulfed in flames was so shocking. I don't know how much more devastation Londoners can endure. RIP once again to those who lost their lives, and bravo to the fire teams who saved so many more.
C x x
Just awful Bboy. I was just watching the news and it said although the work on the flats had been signed off, it's possible there was subsequent work going on which they are now looking in to. :shrug: What a sad thing to happen. My heart goes out to all. x Yes indeed bb and it's highly possible that there were essential services such as gas mains and water and electricity services were being upgraded fire blocks in walls etc where these services run wasn't reinstated properly it at all and guess the work may have been signed off with out being checked thoroughly Some one or more than one has to be held accountable in my book for this very sad tragedy I work in a shop only a small shop that has a 4 zone fire alarm, Emergency lighting every where including the stairs and 3 different routes of emergency escapes.
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Cause of the fire still not known as yet but the spread of fire was accelerated by the use of the stupid plastic cladding that was on the outside of the building who's idea was that?? Cheers
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Further update: It's not confirmed yet, but was said it was possible that fridge in a apartment on the 4th floor exploded but within 20 mins the whole block was ablaze, Which begs the question should all apartments in a high rise blocks have fire blankets and small fire extinguisher provided? Other neighbouring blocks are also undergoing refurbs, should these be halted to all investigations are completed? Yes I think they should. Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
15-06-17, 00:34
It's a terrible tragedy. Residents in other blocks must very concerned.
RIP to the deceased and love & support to the survivors. :hugs:
Didn't some guy catch a terrible baby dropped to safety by a frantic mother? If so, what a great bloke well deserving of public recognition.
It's a terrible tragedy. Residents in other blocks must very concerned.
RIP to the deceased and love & support to the survivors. :hugs:
Didn't some guy catch a terrible baby dropped to safety by a frantic mother? If so, what a great bloke well deserving of public recognition.
Yes but it was more than one person saving the baby out of bedding was made a net type thing to break the fall and people gathered round clutching the bedding and the baby survived :) Why wasn't apparatus along the same lines used to save other people? Lots of questions unanswered still I still cant get over in a building that size the fire quickly spread in very little time. Corners were cut and of the works that was carried out it should have never had been signed off. Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
15-06-17, 15:36
Cheers Dave, I only heard it second hand. I'm a bit behind with the news.
Lots of respect to them for doing that.
Something is very wrong in this case, a building going up so fast. It was like a scene out of the Towering Inferno! It passes building regs yet has this ever happened before? And surely there have been lots of fires in high rise flats since the 1950's? :shrug:
If they find it passed the regs, something is wrong in those regs or the people doing the checks. Maybe a brown envelope job?
Cheers Dave, I only heard it second hand. I'm a bit behind with the news.
Lots of respect to them for doing that.
Something is very wrong in this case, a building going up so fast. It was like a scene out of the Towering Inferno! It passes building regs yet has this ever happened before? And surely there have been lots of fires in high rise flats since the 1950's? :shrug:
If they find it passed the regs, something is wrong in those regs or the people doing the checks. Maybe a brown envelope job?Np Terry :) Indeed hopefully the mother was able to escape too in time :) I actually thought when I first saw the tower engulfed in flames oh no not another terrorist attack :eek: but it wasn't still just as bad. Something is really bad with this case Yes the chief commisioner of the fire dept who tackled the fire said in her 29 years of service she has seen many tower block fires, but this one was the worst ever seen. It's probably both regs and people doing the checks probably more to do with the latter I think, well lets face it, it's a large block so may be everything that should have been checked wasn't and yet still signed off words fail me on this. Do I believe it could have been prevented? Yes Cheers
Well just heard there are around 4000 tower blocks in the uk, 400 of them in the west midlands the West Midlands Fire service are trying to push for sprinkler systems in each of the these blocks other things like types of cladding on the outside of these buildings etc,will also be looked at and one MP is saying we owe to every one who lives in tower blocks (that's 4000 of them)to make these buildings as safe as possible and what ever it takes it to do it we must do it:) they are just waiting on the througher investigation in to the Glenfell tower block fire in London Edit: Watched the news on ITV at 6:30 and Iam shocked at certain things 1 in particular was the use of the cladding a cheaper version was used WTF the safer version wasn't used because it cost £2 a tile more expensive to buy this angers me immensely, tell you there must be justice for all those residents When you think of the rents coming in each month it stinks. 2. Thersa May has offered 5 millions pounds to help ppl affected by this fire and yet 400million £ is set aside for the refurb of Buckingham Palace can hardly see that going up in smoke and will have state of the art fire safety systems If not al ready installed.And well done on the 50 ppl who stormed Kensington Town Hall to get answers I would normally be appalled by this sort of protest sorry not this time I saw very much anger tonight Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
17-06-17, 05:00
Beware MP's using these events. It's too little too late. What they were doing to prevent this is more important. Politics is very divisive at the moment.
The death toll is rising and there are loads of people still missing. I fear the worst for them. Poor children have died too.
I think the issue with Buck Palace will be more that it brings in tourism for the country.
Beware MP's using these events. It's too little too late. What they were doing to prevent this is more important. Politics is very divisive at the moment.
The death toll is rising and there are loads of people still missing. I fear the worst for them. Poor children have died too.
I think the issue with Buck Palace will be more that it brings in tourism for the country.Terry while I agree with you a lot of it was to do with
the management team that owns the flats and the local council not doing their jobs correctly, cutting corners,etc, etc No one apart from the residents of the flats could see the dangers even after repeated pleas it fell on deaf ears, sure local Mps should have kept on at central government to look in to the lack of fire safety in the tower blocks, I mean we aren't just talking about for eg: a single fire extinguisher that's empty or a emergency light on the blink in a corridor it's extremely serious and criminal charges must be brought on those mindless ppl who were involved in these refurb works, ppl are accountable with out a doubt preventable yes I really think so. Cheers
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Further Update: 2 under ground/over ground lines are now shut near the burnt out tower block, as there is growing concerns about the stability of the building so fire and police services are making a assessment of the safety of the building and rightly so :)
Which now begs the question for 2 reasons should the tower block be refurbished ( I am no expert but would say no it cant be saved ) and if it can would any one want to live in it again?? I certainly wouldn't. too much bad karma. Bring back either low rise (4 floors) high housing or rows of houses back then you also get a sense of community back in this area, plus it's safer, not saying there wasn't a community spirit far from it by the way ppl are rallyling around to help each other:yesyes: I personally think demolish the tower as ir was a death trap :eek: Lessons are going to have to be learned from this and fast. Cheers
snowghost57
17-06-17, 14:59
It is truly a tragedy of what happened in that apartment building. I was in college with a minor in Fire Technology and Safety. I was appalled at what we as humans allow to be manufactured for household furniture, drapes even our pipes in plumbing. Look up PCV plastic and polyethylene. All of these products are highly flammable, however, they are accepted in everything in every country. In addition the lack of sprinklers, fire alarms and smoke detectors... I just don't know what to say. This tragedy could have been prevented. My heart and prayers are out to all that were affected.
MyNameIsTerry
17-06-17, 16:15
Yep, Dave. Let's hope criminal charges are applied to any bosses & politicians who didn't stop this happening.
But I'm sick of politicians trying to up their ratings off the back of events like this.
Tower blocks are something I dislike too. I prefer housing. I guess it will be a demolition job as the place is a shell isn't it?
Space being a premium down there means tower blocks help.
Yep, Dave. Let's hope criminal charges are applied to any bosses & politicians who didn't stop this happening.
But I'm sick of politicians trying to up their ratings off the back of events like this.
I was just thinking that! Why the hell is it now about getting Theresa out and corbyn in??!
MyNameIsTerry
17-06-17, 17:54
I was just thinking that! Why the hell is it now about getting Theresa out and corbyn in??!
Yeah, it's not like they haven't been a problem in society for decades. How often were they viewed as crime ridden areas? The media have tended to use tower blocks in many a crime programme.
For some, anything to push their agenda. On the left there will be the current push to get him in at all costs. Thankfully most people aren't like that including those who want to see Labour back in.
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.And well done on the 50 ppl who stormed Kensington Town Hall to get answers I would normally be appalled by this sort of protest sorry not this time I saw very much anger tonight Cheers
The organiser of that protest said"
“I think there are probably fringe elements here that are not connected. There was some violence. But the majority of people here are genuine and demand that the council listen to them.”
Some in the pictures are wearing masks & hoods.
Given the hijacking of this tragedy, I suspect he is right. However, he has been promoting Corbyn through this, which I fear is more about the current campaigning climate than this incident.
Marches including signs about stopping racism and getting the government out are nothing about this terrible tragedy and everything about Corbyn's professional protesters. Very very sad.
The residents, I can well understand. Who wouldn't be outside complaining?
MyNameIsTerry
21-06-17, 05:09
Was reading today that they held a minutes silence. The current death toll is terrible.
Those firefighters must see some terrible things. Counselling budgets were cut to them so let's hope that gets sorted as they deserve it.
Cheaper cladding option was implemented so is it up to spec? There was another similiar case years ago and the inquiry mentioned how cladding solutions weren't in use in many places as to warrant action. Labour were still in for years after this so I wonder where the decision to start using this came about? Did a change in government bring this?
a
Was reading today that they held a minutes silence. The current death toll is terrible.
Those firefighters must see some terrible things. Counselling budgets were cut to them so let's hope that gets sorted as they deserve it.
Cheaper cladding option was implemented so is it up to spec? There was another similiar case years ago and the inquiry mentioned how cladding solutions weren't in use in many places as to warrant action. Labour were still in for years after this so I wonder where the decision to start using this came about? Did a change in government bring this? Yes It a high death toll sadly Terry. Indeed and those fire fighters deserve medals for their bravery and hard work that's till on going now. I don't just think it was cheaper cladding that helped the fire spread so darn quickly,but it did play a part. The cheaper cladding was £2 per tile cheaper and obviously not a fire retardant so why even consider this??
Other things would include internal fire doors on each flat in the block were they of the right spec for the job? (these doors should contain a fire for 30 mins before breaking down) was cheaper ones used in the refurb if they where replaced, Certainly the lack of sprinkler systems/dry riser system in the block would have contributed to the acceleration rate that the fire spread. as would ducting for services like gas, electricity, water mains going through each floor/wall/ceiling where these properly filled in so not to cause a through draft that would increase the spread of the fire quickly. The lack of proper fire alarm system not installed for silly reasons like false alarms etc. Zonal alarms would have been best where a intermittent alarm bell/sounder would say there is a fire but not on your floor but stand by, a constant bell/sounder going off would indicate immediate evacuation and not even a emergency lighting installed either, :eek: The police are now seeing this as a potential crime scene and rightly so many heads must now roll and people must lose their jobs and freedom because of this preventable fire,hope there wont be cover ups Honesty must now prevail for all the victims and their families
Cheers
More protests about how May has dealt with the homeless after the fire still some aren't rehomed no wonder they are angry it hasn't been coordinated properly May didn't shake any ones hand either who was made homeless but did apologise in the houses of parliament today sorry May not good enough I personally think she is on her way out if the protests have anything to go by. Sad but true! Cheers
More tower blocks across the uk are being checked at a rate of around 100 a day so within 40 days all uk tower blocks should have checked on the type of cladding used in any refurbs done. so far 3 tower blocks has had the results come back and it's exactly the same results as Grenfell same cladding was used. out of the 3 results well 1 is believed to have come back from a newly built (only 3 years old) 22 storey tower in Harringay in London with exactly the same cladding on the refurbished Grenfell block this sucks big time folks.
Kensington CEO of the council has now resigned as he couldn't cope I just hope he doesn't get a decent pay out because he has resigned this would only add fuel to the already angry protestors about the way the case has been handled Cheers
You can't really blame them as they've payed a lot of money to live in these apartments, bet they won't be voting Tory again anytime soon.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/819921/grenfell-tower-london-fire-kensington-chelsea-rehousing-theresa-may-outrage-rent-residents?utm_source=CRM&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=Grenfell_rehousing_Kensington_resident s_outrage&utm_campaign=DailyNews_Express
You can't really blame them as they've payed a lot of money to live in these apartments, bet they won't be voting Tory again anytime soon.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/819921/grenfell-tower-london-fire-kensington-chelsea-rehousing-theresa-may-outrage-rent-residents?utm_source=CRM&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=Grenfell_rehousing_Kensington_resident s_outrage&utm_campaign=DailyNews_Express I don't blame them one bit Hollow, Its not how much they have paid but everyone wants to feel safe in those buildings don't they, some of this cladding has been found on premier inns too so many more buildings could have this cladding like schools etc. What I don't understand is the companies that have used this cladding for years will have records of some sort and details of the buildings that have had this cladding installed, I think really the tip of the iceberg has only been found. Personally think now this cheaper cladding should now be not fitted to any more bulidings as only 3 years ago it was fitted to a new build tower block in Harringay shameful A total ban must now happen IMHO :) Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-17, 11:31
You can't really blame them as they've payed a lot of money to live in these apartments, bet they won't be voting Tory again anytime soon.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/819921/grenfell-tower-london-fire-kensington-chelsea-rehousing-theresa-may-outrage-rent-residents?utm_source=CRM&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=Grenfell_rehousing_Kensington_resident s_outrage&utm_campaign=DailyNews_Express
How much will the rent be? I'm just thinking about the years people have been complaining about paying high rents in certain areas of London. If very high, it's going to be looked down on by working class voters too later on.
They do need to be careful how they put this point across. Those named in that article will likely get trolled big time by a certain breed. I'm surprised the one showing compassion didn't want to be named.
How much will the rent be? I'm just thinking about the years people have been complaining about paying high rents in certain areas of London.
I think it's £5000 a month according to a woman in that article, but i don't think the survivors will pay any rent because a lot of them don't work and i'm assuming the government will pay their rent anyway. To me this sets a dangerous precedent as some people might try to burn other towers down so that they might be able to get luxury apartments.
I think it's £5000 a month according to a woman in that article, but i don't think the survivors will pay any rent because a lot of them don't work and i'm assuming the government will pay their rent anyway. To me this sets a dangerous precedent as some people might try to burn other towers down so that they might be able to get luxury apartments. :eek: I know rents in London are really high, but is this for real £5000 a month per flat in a tower block times that by 120 flats nah I cant see it that high they aren't luxury apartments after all that amounts to extortion in my book and a rip off, Yes think you may be right as tenants are getting desperate but would they endanger other tenants lives by starting fires possible but don't think they would go that far? Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-17, 13:14
I think it's £5000 a month according to a woman in that article, but i don't think the survivors will pay any rent because a lot of them don't work and i'm assuming the government will pay their rent anyway. To me this sets a dangerous precedent as some people might try to burn other towers down so that they might be able to get luxury apartments.
So, the tax payers pay. When victims of Grenfell move on new people will move in and get a luxury apartment.
How can anyone working pay that? They wouldn't have been living where they were so it's going to be top ups time.
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:eek: I know rents in London are really high, but is this for real £5000 a month per flat in a tower block times that by 120 flats nah I cant see it that high they aren't luxury apartments after all that amounts to extortion in my book and a rip off, Yes think you may be right as tenants are getting desperate but would they endanger other tenants lives by starting fires possible but don't think they would go that far? Cheers
It says luxury apartments in a high price area but certain amenities are not available like the gym & swimming pool.
I guess we need to see what more sources say to rule out spin.
mezzaninedoor
23-06-17, 13:23
I would hope that if the Government / Councils are using private rentals to house Grenfell Tower victims that they use their compulsory powers to agree the rentals for the short period needed, the Towers must have had empty flats in order to accomadate folks and so they are getting money whereas they didnt get any rental.
Regards the posh folks who already live there, its the right thing to do isn't it so they need to suck it up for a few months Im afraid.
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-17, 13:45
I would hope that if the Government / Councils are using private rentals to house Grenfell Tower victims that they use their compulsory powers to agree the rentals for the short period needed, the Towers must have had empty flats in order to accomadate folks and so they are getting money whereas they didnt get any rental.
Regards the posh folks who already live there, its the right thing to do isn't it so they need to suck it up for a few months Im afraid.
It's a permanent situation.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/21/rehousing-of-grenfell-tower-families-in-luxury-block-meets-mixed-response
Flats purchased. They could always sell them again later. Unfinished blocks so it's not going to a compulsory purchase order as that's 2 years vacant isn't it?
The next issue will be compensation for lost house value I bet when the solicitors start sniffing around.
Interesting what that guy says about the subletting.
£2500 per month for a one bedroom.
I would hope that if the Government / Councils are using private rentals to house Grenfell Tower victims that they use their compulsory powers to agree the rentals for the short period needed, the Towers must have had empty flats in order to accomadate folks and so they are getting money whereas they didnt get any rental.
Regards the posh folks who already live there, its the right thing to do isn't it so they need to suck it up for a few months Im afraid. Well actually some have been put up in hotels and not B&B's the other thing is there are many derelict buildings in London that have been empty for years should these been turned in to affordable housing in stead of offices ?? No real need to keep building new homes as much not when there a empty buildings all over the uk :)
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So, the tax payers pay. When victims of Grenfell move on new people will move in and get a luxury apartment.
How can anyone working pay that? They wouldn't have been living where they were so it's going to be top ups time.
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It says luxury apartments in a high price area but certain amenities are not available like the gym & swimming pool.
I guess we need to see what more sources say to rule out spin. Ha ha exactly you would expect that wouldn't you may be lucky getting a coin operated laundry and lifts that work? :whistles: Cheers
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It's a permanent situation.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/21/rehousing-of-grenfell-tower-families-in-luxury-block-meets-mixed-response
Flats purchased. They could always sell them again later. Unfinished blocks so it's not going to a compulsory purchase order as that's 2 years vacant isn't it?
The next issue will be compensation for lost house value I bet when the solicitors start sniffing around.
Interesting what that guy says about the subletting.
£2500 per month for a one bedroom. Yes read the article Terry one resident of this block as was saying oh the air con stopped work guess what it was fixed in 30 mins sucks doesn't it and yet blocks like the one that is shell probably cant get their lifts fixed for ages a big divide in how the poor and vunerable are treated sadly. Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-17, 14:19
But they pay a charge for that good service. Social housing will always mean putting up with lesser services just as low cost rentals do.
As a temporary thing it's workable. Permanent will obviously bring concerns as there is a question mark over who is moving in. We've got good neighbours in the private rented house next door and they both work. In the past we've had couples that beat seven bells out of each other too. We've got lots of normal working people (and unemployed) up & down our streets but we've also got our share of troublemakers & criminals. But we aren't professionals, they live in more expensive areas.
So, there are some realities in here that affect house prices.
But they pay a charge for that good service. Social housing will always mean putting up with lesser services just as low cost rentals do.
As a temporary thing it's workable. Permanent will obviously bring concerns as there is a question mark over who is moving in. We've got good neighbours in the private rented house next door and they both work. In the past we've had couples that beat seven bells out of each other too. We've got lots of normal working people (and unemployed) up & down our streets but we've also got our share of troublemakers & criminals. But we aren't professionals, they live in more expensive areas.
So, there are some realities in here that affect house prices. Sure but even in the poorer towers you expect the lifts to be working or fixed promptly well I would, and saying that even in poser areas you still have the criminal element! Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
23-06-17, 17:01
Absolutely Dave! Crime is everywhere. But if these are professionals paying for a higher standard, they wouldn't want us plebs in there. Some may, some may be too afraid to say what they think as they will attract some very unpleasant online attention who will be more interested in giving abuse than talking about the whys.
If you take the tragedy out of this and consider it, can you imagine the complaining?
I'm not saying it's right but I can see the reality away from Grenfell when people are already complaining about paying too much for others due to rising rents. London has it's challenges though with space and housing sitting empty being used as investment so I know I don't understand whether there are cheaper solutions even available.
A horrible situation to be in that no one should suffer when it comes to the people of Grenfell.
You just know the exec who walked before he was pushed will get a payout and be in another high paying job elsewhere very soon. Just like the NHS when execs have to leave.
It will be interesting to see what criminal charges the police bring.
Absolutely Dave! Crime is everywhere. But if these are professionals paying for a higher standard, they wouldn't want us plebs in there. Some may, some may be too afraid to say what they think as they will attract some very unpleasant online attention who will be more interested in giving abuse than talking about the whys.
If you take the tragedy out of this and consider it, can you imagine the complaining?
I'm not saying it's right but I can see the reality away from Grenfell when people are already complaining about paying too much for others due to rising rents. London has it's challenges though with space and housing sitting empty being used as investment so I know I don't understand whether there are cheaper solutions even available.
A horrible situation to be in that no one should suffer when it comes to the people of Grenfell.
You just know the exec who walked before he was pushed will get a payout and be in another high paying job elsewhere very soon. Just like the NHS when execs have to leave.
It will be interesting to see what criminal charges the police bring.
Well Terry that would amount to maybe some form of discrimination? Absolutely I can But there again after all what these poorer people have gone through do you not think even them, some of the more well off wouldn't help these victims of such a horrible event? Of course I know he will get a handsome payment and will be placed in another job it's stinks to high heaven, and one would hope the investigation will suss this out. Yes will be very interesting to see how many will get charged for this preventable horrific fire and if no one faces charges then I can presume the protests will get very nasty justice must prevail and not 2 decades or more later like Hillsborough :eek: Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
24-06-17, 15:58
If it's discrimination then we're probably all guilty of it. Worrying what your neighbours will be like is pretty common.
I do think there will be some who genuinely care. But I think you would be mad to indicate you disprove of fire survivors moving in when we have the internet and it's all nastiness that will see you vilified. It can be seen now that they have been called nasty people for airing that concern. But take the fire out of the equation and the situation becomes more about social housing forced on a more expensive area, something which the well off would always complain about.
Remember that drug rehab argument in our city some years back? Residents complaining it would devalue their properties despite the good work it would do? It's not just the loaded, everyone complains about things changing their streets. This isn't a comparison to the people of Grenfell, just an example of how less well people do the same.
I've seen people mention the new block was always going to be social housing. If that's the case, the issue was always about devaluation, crime levels, antisocial behaviour, etc and not Grenfell and it would have been so during any consultation. You wouldn't have a leg to stand on about Grenfell residents moving in but arty the same time perhaps the media might distort your original concerns into ones specifically about Grenfell to stir things up? I guess we need to see if this gets reported.
Have you seen this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40389148
It seems the councils are taking preventative action. Damn scary to be a resident though and for years a fire in a neighbours flat could have put you in the same danger! :ohmy:
MyNameIsTerry
25-06-17, 04:46
Diane Abbott reckons the death toll will be much higher:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-diane-abbott-victims-number-hundreds-labour-shadow-home-secretary-a7806106.html
I'm glad she's not the Home Secretary. Facts are important. This is based on what some locals are saying I think, I've seen that somewhere.
Typical attack on the government though when aren't many of these councils Labour? And some of these flats were built under the last Labour government like the Camden flats they've just evacuated which were refurbished 2006-2009.
Interestingly it mentions how those flats in the luxury end of this development go for £1,575,000 to £8.5m! The 68 are costing £2bn or rather the block is. Is it just them in there? That's a hell of a lot.
Diane Abbott reckons the death toll will be much higher:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-diane-abbott-victims-number-hundreds-labour-shadow-home-secretary-a7806106.html
I'm glad she's not the Home Secretary. Facts are important. This is based on what some locals are saying I think, I've seen that somewhere.
Typical attack on the government though when aren't many of these councils Labour? And some of these flats were built under the last Labour government like the Camden flats they've just evacuated which were refurbished 2006-2009.
Interestingly it mentions how those flats in the luxury end of this development go for £1,575,000 to £8.5m! The 68 are costing £2bn or rather the block is. Is it just them in there? That's a hell of a lot. Well tbh honest Terry she may be right Sure some % of the residents would have been out and about at around 1am clubs and bars still open. I personal will say more people will be found, no one can put a figure on it though.
Interesting the 68 luxury flats will be permanent housing for the survivors (sure that's spelt wrong is it? using windows spell corrector) of Grenfell tower block can only presume the bill will be paid/subsided by the local council!!
Is this just a gesture off the council to show that they are actively doing the right thing?? In some ways it would be better to look at fire safety measure in tower blocks in London and beyond and I don't just mean the cladding either, the full works. Like I repeat I work in a very small shop that actually (to me) has adequate fire safety measures in place so I feel safe. What did Grenfell have, nothing compared to the shop I work in. And if fire regs are out of date these should be updated with new measures put in to the regs!! And Rydon's who have done many installations using this dangerous cladding (not sure if they just installed it or actually had a hand in manufacturing it too) should they also face criminal investigation?? Many questions still remain unanswered Cheers
Resentful' Kensington resident says she'd move OUT if Grenfell Tower survivors were re-housed free in block where she 'pays £15,000 a year'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4633644/Kensington-resident-away-Grenfell-victims.html
I think this is very unfair on these people, they have worked hard all their lives to be able to afford to live in these luxury apartments. Their lifestyle will be severaly effected due to the "survivors" moving in and the place might end up like the Grenfell towers in a few years. They should be given help but not at the expense of ruining other people's lives.
Resentful' Kensington resident says she'd move OUT if Grenfell Tower survivors were re-housed free in block where she 'pays £15,000 a year'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4633644/Kensington-resident-away-Grenfell-victims.html
I think this is very unfair on these people, they have worked hard all their lives to be able to afford to live in these luxury apartments. Their lifestyle will be severaly effected due to the "survivors" moving in and the place might end up like the Grenfell towers in a few years. They should be given help but not at the expense of ruining other people's lives. Hollow so are you on the side of Donna then? I can partly see where you are coming from, but people are people wether you have gold teeth or not ( I actually don't like gold teeth ha ha) but you know what I am saying, these poor people have lost their homes and loved ones,through no fault of their own Wether the flats the Grenfell residents that are moving in to should be a permanent thing that is a different matter people are people at the end of the day and need compassion right now :) Think the council had to work quickly for accommodation for these people but not sure why they chose luxury appartments this is a good debate now folks!! Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
26-06-17, 14:06
John McDonnell called it murder in his speech at Glastonbury.
It's sad to see events like this used to further campaigns.
If Corbyn had won the GE, would Abbott & McDonnell be spouting this trying to whip people up?
John McDonnell called it murder in his speech at Glastonbury.
It's sad to see events like this used to further campaigns.
If Corbyn had won the GE, would Abbott & McDonnell be spouting this trying to whip people up?
If they are politicising this then isn't this guy ultimately responsible? It happened under his watch.
http://memestatic.fjcdn.com/pictures/On+the+london+fire+after+the+horrific+recent+terro r+attack_16337a_6303137.jpg
"Grenfell 'miracle baby': Why people invent fake victims of attacks and disasters"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40419479
There was also a story about a "baby" being dropped from the Grenfell tower and someone catching it, that was probably "fake news" as well, it just doesn't make sense because of the laws of physics. How many other victims, witnesses are fake too?
"Grenfell 'miracle baby': Why people invent fake victims of attacks and disasters"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40419479
There was also a story about a "baby" being dropped from the Grenfell tower and someone catching it, that was probably "fake news" as well, it just doesn't make sense because of the laws of physics. How many other victims, witnesses are fake too?Hollow If only I knew that is so sick and those involved should be prosecuted:huh:. As for the other baby being caught while being thrown out of a window yes that's feasible as a group of people on the ground held a blanket that softened the fall so I can believe that totally! But there is no way a baby caught up in a fire of that scale could remain alive even if the room/area wasn't on fire the baby would have starved to death
Cant bear thinking about it:eek: Thanks for sharing Hollow Cheers
---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 ----------
Just Heard Sir Martin Moore-Bick a retired (72) Senior Appeal Court Judge is heading the enquiry in to the Grenfell Tower Block Fire (never heard of him) Just hope he is a respected Judge and will get the job done. Thersa May says she is leaving NO stone unturned on this, is she fit for the job in hand? Only time will tell. And 137 tower blocks across the country over 41 local authourities has failed the cladding tests, so the company that has installed them across the country did they know how dangerous this cladding really is they must have known to some degree? Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
29-06-17, 13:13
"Grenfell 'miracle baby': Why people invent fake victims of attacks and disasters"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-40419479
There was also a story about a "baby" being dropped from the Grenfell tower and someone catching it, that was probably "fake news" as well, it just doesn't make sense because of the laws of physics. How many other victims, witnesses are fake too?
And that's why I don't believe the likes of Abbot over official announcements by the emergency services.
People must have been thick to be taken in by that story. But most probably just share them to be first & popular.
News outlets debunked it? One call to the emergency services would have done that.
And that's why I don't believe the likes of Abbot over official announcements by the emergency services.
People must have been thick to be taken in by that story. But most probably just share them to be first & popular.
News outlets debunked it? One call to the emergency services would have done that. I agree the first story is a hoax but the second one could easily be true :) so for now unless some one has new evidence I will believe it :) Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
29-06-17, 16:39
Just Heard Sir Martin Moore-Bick a retired (72) Senior Appeal Court Judge is heading the enquiry in to the Grenfell Tower Block Fire (never heard of him) Just hope he is a respected Judge and will get the job done. Thersa May says she is leaving NO stone unturned on this, is she fit for the job in hand? Only time will tell. And 137 tower blocks across the country over 41 local authourities has failed the cladding tests, so the company that has installed them across the country did they know how dangerous this cladding really is they must have known to some degree? Cheers
The question is - why have they failed now? Unless they've just changed the cladding test they must have passed before. Local authorities approve these things as well as check they afterwards to safeguard the public.
So, if the test is the same we must be looking at failure to check plans, failure to check works completed, incompetence or corruption. Any or all of them, but it falls back on who is responsible for the checks. Even if a company submitted the right plans and decided to install unsafe cladding, someone would have checked wouldn't they?
Crikey, renovate a building and the council are out checking you did it per the plans.
Maybe this is a systemic issue at councils? Employers not doing what they should and no one being accountable? Local councils spent decades breaching women's rights to equal pay no matter whether their tie colour was blue, red or yellow.
It matters more who runs the inquiry. The government & parties won't be doing any work. Besides I bet there are a lot of vested interests on both sides.
The question is - why have they failed now? Unless they've just changed the cladding test they must have passed before. Local authorities approve these things as well as check they afterwards to safeguard the public.
So, if the test is the same we must be looking at failure to check plans, failure to check works completed, incompetence or corruption. Any or all of them, but it falls back on who is responsible for the checks. Even if a company submitted the right plans and decided to install unsafe cladding, someone would have checked wouldn't they?
Crikey, renovate a building and the council are out checking you did it per the plans.
Maybe this is a systemic issue at councils? Employers not doing what they should and no one being accountable? Local councils spent decades breaching women's rights to equal pay no matter whether their tie colour was blue, red or yellow.
It matters more who runs the inquiry. The government & parties won't be doing any work. Besides I bet there are a lot of vested interests on both sides. Hmm it's possible that the regs haven't changed for years if they have they wouldnot have passed the tests, would they? How ever my money is on the council who don't run their own tests and rubber stamp it as passed on grounds like was the cladding fitted and secured properly don't want one of the tiles to fall off huge compo claim don't think enough was done like the fire service checking after the installation of these tiles(which they didn't) which brings on me to this: The Retired Appeal Judge who leading this enquiry well seen the news tonight and shock horror he is only involved in finding out the cause of the fire so it's no wonder the residents of Glenfell Tower Block have little faith in him I feel sorry for the residents totally it sucks. Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
30-06-17, 04:52
Yes, but if the cause is determined to be X and Y people it will progress to something else. It would be man slaughter I would imagine and so it has to be a criminal matter for the CPS.
If the inquiry proves the cladding isn't safe, regs will be forced to change.
If the cladding can be proved to be installed due to the correct standards, the company just did what was required. It's the regs that are the issue.
The council can pass it if it's per the regs. If they haven't followed procedure and allowed a company to install unsafe works then they will be accountable for that if their procedures would have meant checking for this.
I reckon it's the regs and probably the checks.
I think they will have to see what comes out of it. The findings may allow some solicitors to pursue a group action on their behalf against anyone found at fault for compensation.
Sadly the council have made it a closed session for now but given the violence at the recent demonstration they have to protect their staff too.
Yes, but if the cause is determined to be X and Y people it will progress to something else. It would be man slaughter I would imagine and so it has to be a criminal matter for the CPS.
If the inquiry proves the cladding isn't safe, regs will be forced to change.
If the cladding can be proved to be installed due to the correct standards, the company just did what was required. It's the regs that are the issue.
The council can pass it if it's per the regs. If they haven't followed procedure and allowed a company to install unsafe works then they will be accountable for that if their procedures would have meant checking for this.
I reckon it's the regs and probably the checks.
I think they will have to see what comes out of it. The findings may allow some solicitors to pursue a group action on their behalf against anyone found at fault for compensation.
Sadly the council have made it a closed session for now but given the violence at the recent demonstration they have to protect their staff too. I personally believe it will result in some criminal prosecutions, With out seeing current fire regs for tower blocks ( be quite a interesting read of these regs) and when and if they were last changed, one would think they would be amended every so often just like the wiring regs these are often amended (not in full) on a regular basis. Yes even tv camera's were asked to leave which may mean people who may end up in the dock actually bricking it not wanting this hanging over them. so behind closed doors and in secret.I don't think it will be done and dusted in a few months time it will probably drag on as many things will have to be a looked at in great detail and residents have every right to pursue this and keep at it :) Either way it's gross negligence and money saving that has caused this to happen. Edit it just gets worse last night on news at 10 ITV the government are now doing there own risk assessment via government staff,when already the Fire Service has done their own tests, the government are possibly thinking actually the cladding isn't to blame for the speed of the fire that turned Glenfell in to a towering infero the Fire Service whole heartedly disagree with this statement and systemic failures have been found so who do you believe? Did try and find a link for this via the red button but to no avail I know who I believe :) Cheers
Grenfell tower survivors threaten to boycott inquiry unless 'white middle-class judge who has never visited a council block' is fired (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4660730/Grenfell-tower-survivors-threaten-boycott-inquiry.html#article-4660730)
This guy is a respected judge according to many people and will probably do a good job but he's not being given much of a chance, being shot down in flames by the "survivors".
MyNameIsTerry
18-08-17, 21:13
Oh dear...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40938697
Firefighters were shown the "fire safety features of the building".
A fire brigade spokesman said it did not "sign off" the refurbishment.
But did it raise concerns? If not...
Documents seen by the BBC show "close liaison" between the Tenant Management Organisation and the London Fire Brigade "throughout the duration of the project".
One TMO document revealed how, at the conclusion of the project, operational firefighters from the local fire station had attended an onsite briefing "where the contractor demonstrated the fire safety features of the building".
Oh dear...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40938697
Firefighters were shown the "fire safety features of the building".
A fire brigade spokesman said it did not "sign off" the refurbishment.
But did it raise concerns? If not...
Documents seen by the BBC show "close liaison" between the Tenant Management Organisation and the London Fire Brigade "throughout the duration of the project".
One TMO document revealed how, at the conclusion of the project, operational firefighters from the local fire station had attended an onsite briefing "where the contractor demonstrated the fire safety features of the building". Oh Dear indeed Terry I have just read the story and the LFB said they didn't sign off the work I think only the TMO (who refuse to comment, why have they something to hide maybe?)and the council could actually 'sign' off the work the fire brigade only liased but saying that
were they shown the specs for the cladding and what fire safety features if any were fitted in the tower block and how much time was given to be shown round the block was it rushed? Personally I don't blame the fire service on this atall thanks for the update Terry :) Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
19-08-17, 01:36
It suspect the lawyers will be telling everyone to say nothing and LFB only gave a stock policy reply that answered nothing about their involvement.
It suspect the lawyers will be telling everyone to say nothing and LFB only gave a stock policy reply that answered nothing about their involvement. Sir Martin Moore-Bick the retired appeal court judge recently has included more things in his assessments of the fire wether this goes far enoughI don't know, TBH how does any one know ( has any of his assessments been in the public domain and what if crucial documents from both the TMO and council have been deliberately destroyed? I certainly wouldn't put it past either of them to have done this already :eek: Comments please!On another note does any know what's happening with the tower like is it going to be demolished, etc? ( I think it should be) and a memorial put up in it's place to remember the victims of this preventable fire.Edit: Further reading the link you sent apparently a 'detailed inspection of the refurb was out of the remit of the LFB such a 30 mi check fire doors etc only Fire Hydrants etc would have been looked at because the LFB didn't have the powers to thoroughly check if this had been allowed, perhaps this fire could have been avoided. Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
20-08-17, 11:06
It wouldn't surprise me either, Dave. It's going to be prison time for some in this case as there will be no getting away from public opinion on this one. The survivors group will push it like the families of the Hillsborough victims (and so they should)
LFB were brought in outside of any legal responsibility. But aren't the panels also legal under regs of the time? If LFB didn't raise any issues with what they were shown it only further backs up that doesn't it?
No doubt they will demolish it, it will be cheaper to rebuild I would imagine. With space for housing being a problem they might put another one back up? I suppose they might gauge the views of the survivors group on that one to see if it would cause offence first?
It wouldn't surprise me either, Dave. It's going to be prison time for some in this case as there will be no getting away from public opinion on this one. The survivors group will push it like the families of the Hillsborough victims (and so they should)
LFB were brought in outside of any legal responsibility. But aren't the panels also legal under regs of the time? If LFB didn't raise any issues with what they were shown it only further backs up that doesn't it?
No doubt they will demolish it, it will be cheaper to rebuild I would imagine. With space for housing being a problem they might put another one back up? I suppose they might gauge the views of the survivors group on that one to see if it would cause offence first?TBH Terry none of the enquirey(s) should havenot been behind closed doors it should have been public all the way don't you think?! Absolutely It has to be prison think many will escape through the back door through by wormng their way out of it:huh: Yes that's the way I read it Terry about the LFB being out side of any legal responsibility. I would say the panels would come under the those regs at that time, but why wernt they tested in any way? It has to be demolished as it's a scar on the landscape and bad reminder of what happened to over 80 residents. Do we have any info what Fire precautions were fitted prior/after the refurb?? I would say there was little or nothing installed. surely during the refurb a comprehensive list of precautions (fire safety) would have been discussed, or may be not? Still many questions unanswered. Cheers
Time to open up this debate again with a update: Just heard on the BBC news at 1 that only 2% of tower blocks in UK are actually fitted with a sprinkler system. The commissioner for the LFB has said it's clear that where these sprinklers systems are fitted they have 99% success rate of saving lives. In Wales a law (mandortory) says all tower blocks must be fitted with such a system. The LFB commissioner is asking for a similar law in UK to come in to force one such council is now retro fitting to some of it's tower blocks sprinklers at a cost of £10 million but are arguing some of the money must come from central government who refuse to help sadly.
Also it must be made law in any new fire regulations but while I welcome this, is it enough and should a package be put in to place such as fire detection systems like fire alarms, emergency lighting to light escape routes be included to help save lives too? To that question I would say Yes. Comments and views on this are welcome. Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
14-09-17, 01:52
I think it's a good idea that anything can help to keep people safe.
Given the BBC article about the LFB, I will wait to see a bit more as it's all politics right now and the LFB may have been exposed in this too. That's a lot of money to come up with so something national really is needed but away from the politics. And controls on what councils do with that money, I don't trust them. :winks:
MyNameIsTerry
18-11-17, 13:46
Diane Abbott reckons the death toll will be much higher:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-diane-abbott-victims-number-hundreds-labour-shadow-home-secretary-a7806106.html
I'm glad she's not the Home Secretary. Facts are important. This is based on what some locals are saying I think, I've seen that somewhere.
Typical attack on the government though when aren't many of these councils Labour? And some of these flats were built under the last Labour government like the Camden flats they've just evacuated which were refurbished 2006-2009.
Interestingly it mentions how those flats in the luxury end of this development go for £1,575,000 to £8.5m! The 68 are costing £2bn or rather the block is. Is it just them in there? That's a hell of a lot.
The final official death toll has come to 71. Utterly tragic.
The so called Shadow Home Secretary should have been sticking to the official lines. The suggested figures like 150 have not been supported. Hints at cover ups and dumbing it down to stop social unrest, etc all undermining what emergency services were saying.
Somehow I doubt Lily Allen's "the police & firefighters told me" was real. I just can't see them saying it and she does like to make herself the centre of attention.
On the news last night the total is 74 dead and all efforts are now ended in the hope of finding any more people, the thing is the immense heat at the fire would have totally (IMHO) consumed many of the victims so guess we will never know the true total.
Now the survivors have a waiting game till next month enquires have finished Then justice might prevail I hope so :) ATB
MyNameIsTerry
18-11-17, 14:55
They say they've recovered the last of the bodies. I wonder if they are saying not all bodies may have been retrievable due to the heat? If not, it must be the the 71.
A very grim task over months.
There was an astounding figure of PTSD cases quoted. I'll have to dig it out but something like 10k!!! :ohmy: How on earth is that possible? The report mentioned about people being triggered watching it (on TV I think) so either this is a new way to collect mental health data or 9/11 must have been far higher?!
Still all these months on and not everyone has been rehoused this is a dreadful situation for those that have suffered such a big loss. Watching the news just now Dame Judith Hackitt (Head of the review panel) Has said the current regs aren't fit for purpose and the use of combustible materials (for refits etc) must be banned now. And future refurbs must also include extra fire safety measures regardless of the cost, she will make her findings known in the spring of next year I hope she is listened too so something like this will never happen again :) ATB
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