View Full Version : New Debate 2: Prisons Too Soft?
Hi Folks and another new debate this time on Prisons. Are they now too soft and do some of them resemble holiday camps with everything laid on?
I actually think some of them are way too cushy (sure your freedom is limited)
What with TV's in the cells and 3 meals a day GYM etc ,etc. It does make me wonder and discipline should it be harder I think it should. Comments please from all angles! Cheers
Hi Dave not only do i think the prison system is soft but the whole justice system is way too soft there is no doubt that the system is corrupted and maybe it was designed that way to actually aid those at the top in the guise of protecting human right's for example how is it justified by the lawmakers that a convicted paedophile serves a couple of years at best than be allowed back into society with a new identity, new accommodation (usually) up the road from a school and a new beginning shall we say whereas the poor victim has to live an absolute nightmare till the day they die. Maybe we should look at other countries and see how they deal with certain crimes and adopt the same laws because I believe that a person who takes away the human rights of another should not expect any human rights for themselves in a court of law.
Hi Dave not only do i think the prison system is soft but the whole justice system is way too soft there is no doubt that the system is corrupted and maybe it was designed that way to actually aid those at the top in the guise of protecting human right's for example how is it justified by the lawmakers that a convicted paedophile serves a couple of years at best than be allowed back into society with a new identity, new accommodation (usually) up the road from a school and a new beginning shall we say whereas the poor victim has to live an absolute nightmare till the day they die. Maybe we should look at other countries and see how they deal with certain crimes and adopt the same laws because I believe that a person who takes away the human rights of another should not expect any human rights for themselves in a court of law.Hi Saf Actually that was going to be another debate about the justice system but why not we can discuss both mate:) Think you are right it has to be something to do with human rights and prison reform both should be axed or at least not used in every single case, as should light sentencing along with remission if a judge hands down a 5 year sentence then 5 years it should be not half off. It's like with say for eg: The use of mobile phones in cars sure new laws have come in but it's still not enough in my book to deter these idiots from using their phones whilst driving it's now a £200 fine and 6 points not good enough it should be automatic ban on driving and you have to take a another driving test simple as.And if you kill some one while driving sorry but again a lengthy prison sentence must be handed down. Same as the pedo's caught with thousands of images which should not be on any ones pc etc these people should be in prison for a long time and automatically go on register and made to go on a course again with no remission for going on the course. And don't get me started on Hanging as I think this should be still used in some crimes. Thanks for your comments Saf. Cheers
Hi Saf Actually that was going to be another debate about the justice system but why not we can discuss both mate:) Think you are right it has to be something to do with human rights and prison reform both should be axed or at least not used in every single case, as should light sentencing along with remission if a judge hands down a 5 year sentence then 5 years it should be not half off. It's like with say for eg: The use of mobile phones in cars sure new laws have come in but it's still not enough in my book to deter these idiots from using their phones whilst driving it's now a £200 fine and 6 points not good enough it should be automatic ban on driving and you have to take a another driving test simple as.And if you kill some one while driving sorry but again a lengthy prison sentence must be handed down. Same as the pedo's caught with thousands of images which should not be on any ones pc etc these people should be in prison for a long time and automatically go on register and made to go on a course again with no remission for going on the course. And don't get me started on Hanging as I think this should be still used in some crimes. Thanks for your comments Saf. Cheers
Are you calling me an idiot Dave? I'm only joking I detest phone users when driving too I see it all the time and I have a little a fun because when I pull up next to em I adjust my dashcam so it faces them and its absolutely amazing how fast the reflexes on a human body can be. In fact Dave and I didnt know this but apparently it's not just phone users that get it in the neck I spoke to someone the other day and she told me that she was given a £200 fine along with 6 points for operating a sat nav while stationary at the lights and she was told its now a zero tolerance policy on all electronic devices that takes your focus away from the road. Anyway lets get back on the topic and I agree a reform with the justice system definitely have to be considered but the problem is leaving that in the hands of the privileged who probably has never been a Victim of crime making it impossible for them to relate to those who have been a victim to many various crimes. As for scrapping human rights fundamentally we have always had human rights which was the basis of the good ol Common law where it was against the law to cause loss,harm or Injury to another human being no matter what the circumstances are which was punishable by hard time whereas today we no longer have Common law on its own it has somehow been turned into common law and commercial law as you wish where most "crimes" and I use the term loosely is punishable by fines and forfeiture and even when common law is in effect it is beyond a joke how soft it has become.
Hi Dave not only do i think the prison system is soft but the whole justice system is way too soft there is no doubt that the system is corrupted and maybe it was designed that way to actually aid those at the top in the guise of protecting human right's for example how is it justified by the lawmakers that a convicted paedophile serves a couple of years at best than be allowed back into society with a new identity, new accommodation (usually) up the road from a school and a new beginning shall we say whereas the poor victim has to live an absolute nightmare till the day they die.
I agree with your point that soft prisons are only part of the problem and that the whole justice system is corrupt. I would take this further and say that Britain today as a whole is corrupt to the core and is basically being run by a cabal of degenerates. As an example, paedophiles in prisons are being offered therapy to "cure" them but as a result of this "therapy" a majority of them have reoffended after being released. You get longer sentences for "hate speech" than you do for commiting real crimes, this has emboldened criminals across Britain to carry out crimes with impunity.
Are you calling me an idiot Dave? I'm only joking I detest phone users when driving too I see it all the time and I have a little a fun because when I pull up next to em I adjust my dashcam so it faces them and its absolutely amazing how fast the reflexes on a human body can be. In fact Dave and I didnt know this but apparently it's not just phone users that get it in the neck I spoke to someone the other day and she told me that she was given a £200 fine along with 6 points for operating a sat nav while stationary at the lights and she was told its now a zero tolerance policy on all electronic devices that takes your focus away from the road. Anyway lets get back on the topic and I agree a reform with the justice system definitely have to be considered but the problem is leaving that in the hands of the privileged who probably has never been a Victim of crime making it impossible for them to relate to those who have been a victim to many various crimes. As for scrapping human rights fundamentally we have always had human rights which was the basis of the good ol Common law where it was against the law to cause loss,harm or Injury to another human being no matter what the circumstances are which was punishable by hard time whereas today we no longer have Common law on its own it has somehow been turned into common law and commercial law as you wish where most "crimes" and I use the term loosely is punishable by fines and forfeiture and even when common law is in effect it is beyond a joke how soft it has become.Nah LOL Saf ;) I think you have hit the nail on it's head on that they cant have been victims of crimes other wise they would think twice :) Good move on your dash cam lol soon does the trick lol I mean wireless head sets are so darn cheap now there is absolutely no excuse not to have one.Like I say hit them hard enough with a proper deterent and they will think twice on doing it again ;) The old way was best a clip round the ear off the street bobby and one when you got home taught you right from wrong!
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Another issue is with the police is getting pally with suspects calling them mate If you are arrested the police should not be calling you mate and vice versa, it's being too familiar in my book. Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
16-08-17, 16:47
It's local dialect I would imagine. Years ago you might be getting called sir as a formality.
I dislike it when you see them banged up in the cells on TV documentaries and the copper asks if they want a cuppa. I guess they find it helps break down boundaries with them being seen add the enemy but it is annoying.
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My brother's GF has been a PO for years and she worked at an open prison. The prisoners were issued their own keys and they were allowed back into the community for certain reasons e.g. weekend visits.
They were still back in the cells at night but otherwise were left to it. Some were fragile types who would suffer in harder prisons due to mental health problems.
I don't like how these prisons are used by harder criminals and white collar high profile criminals as a way to get a cushier deal. The politicians who spend a week in a higher category prison to be transferred to them are a prime example.
Half sentences. Blair's change more aimed at freeing up cells than anything.
What about that judge who have a very light sentence to a paedophile with the highest category of offending material because he & his wife wanted to try for kids. Bonkers. Also, kids? Future case of re offending springs to mind.
It's local dialect I would imagine. Years ago you might be getting called sir as a formality.
I dislike it when you see them banged up in the cells on TV documentaries and the copper asks if they want a cuppa. I guess they find it helps break down boundaries with them being seen add the enemy but it is annoying.Could be,but think the use of it is more widely used in many areas now than say 50 years ago. Cheers
paedophiles in prisons are being offered therapy to "cure" them but as a result of this "therapy" a majority of them have reoffended after being released. You get longer sentences for "hate speech" than you do for commiting real crimes, this has emboldened criminals across Britain to carry out crimes with impunity.
What really grinds my gears is this subject especially when paedophiles are considered mentally ill and they do what they do because of that mental illness I mean what good is therapy lets look at porn addiction for example it has become a epidemic in today's world but most people will consider that as normal behaviour just something people enjoy however detrimental it could become. Why is homosexuality not considered a mental illness if it goes against the "norm" and thats because its not its just how people are and I guarantee anyone if you brought the death sentence into the equation as a punushment for child sexual predators we will see a massive decline in offences.
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Nah LOL Saf ;) I think you have hit the nail on it's head on that they cant have been victims of crimes other wise they would think twice :) Good move on your dash cam lol soon does the trick lol I mean wireless head sets are so darn cheap now there is absolutely no excuse not to have one.Like I say hit them hard enough with a proper deterent and they will think twice on doing it again ;) The old way was best a clip round the ear off the street bobby and one when you got home taught you right from wrong!
---------- Post added at 15:53 ---------- Previous post was at 15:46 ----------
Another issue is with the police is getting pally with suspects calling them mate If you are arrested the police should not be calling you mate and vice versa, it's being too familiar in my book. Cheers
Whatever happened to the days of parents giving a child a clip around the ear if anything I'm grateful to my Dad for giving me a hiding it made me grow up to mind my Ps and Qs and to show the utmost respect to my elders and those around me yet today in some cases you either have the children beating the parents or totally rebelling against em as for the police getting pally with suspects its important to maintain a high level of professionalism as well as a certain level of giving Humane treatment.
MyNameIsTerry
16-08-17, 18:02
Could be,but think the use of it is more widely used in many areas now than say 50 years ago. Cheers
I agree but I think a lot of that is because of changing standards. Years ago you would have been addressed mor formally with "sir" or "mr", for instance.
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What really grinds my gears is this subject especially when paedophiles are considered mentally ill and they do what they do because of that mental illness I mean what good is therapy lets look at porn addiction for example it has become a epidemic in today's world but most people will consider that as normal behaviour just something people enjoy however detrimental it could become. Why is homosexuality not considered a mental illness if it goes against the "norm" and thats because its not its just how people are and I guarantee anyone if you brought the death sentence into the equation as a punushment for child sexual predators we will see a massive decline in offences.
Homosexuality used to be classed as a mental disorder. It was removed as society moved on. Currently Transgenderism sits as a disorder and I expect, to a degree, that will be removed once medical professionals agree on it. I say to a degree because there may be a subset with actual mental health issues.
Paedophilia sits as a disorder of personality. There is also the issue arising that brain scans are showing differences to non paedophiles so it's obviously in need of more research to be sure.
The trouble with paedophilia is, if they don't see a way to try to treat it, what's the solution? Permanent incarceration? Drugs? And if it's not some sort of mental illness, why should a murderer get out after serving his/her time when they have committed an even worse crime? Why aren't they also drugged just in case they re offend? And what about rapists and other sexual offenders?
Homosexuality used to be classed as a mental disorder. It was removed as society moved on. Currently Transgenderism sits as a disorder and I expect, to a degree, that will be removed once medical professionals agree on it. I say to a degree because there may be a subset with actual mental health issues.
Paedophilia sits as a disorder of personality. There is also the issue arising that brain scans are showing differences to non paedophiles so it's obviously in need of more research to be sure.
The trouble with paedophilia is, if they don't see a way to try to treat it, what's the solution? Permanent incarceration? Drugs? And if it's not some sort of mental illness, why should a murderer get out after serving his/her time when they have committed an even worse crime? Why aren't they also drugged just in case they re offend? And what about rapists and other sexual offenders?
I agree with you about the problem with paedophilia and the solution for it but I'm just not buying this whole mental illness thing lets look at grooming gangs for instance lets say you have a gang of 4-5 should we consider that they all have the same mental illness to do what they do never mind the grooming gangs that contain maybe 15-20 predators. In my book a crime is a crime and should be punished accordingly am I saying a paedophile could never have a mental illness No I just don't think they shouldn't label a paedophile to having a mental illness that causes them to be inclined in that way. Even today I'm sure those who indulge in incest is classed as having a mental illness so who's to say that someday in the future even incest Will be regarded as normal within society as long as you have 2 consenting adults? As sad as it sounds this is the reality of today's world its a very complex situation we find ourselves in.
I agree with you about the problem with paedophilia and the solution for it but I'm just not buying this whole mental illness thing lets look at grooming gangs for instance lets say you have a gang of 4-5 should we consider that they all have the same mental illness to do what they do never mind the grooming gangs that contain maybe 15-20 predators. In my book a crime is a crime and should be punished accordingly am I saying a paedophile could never have a mental illness No I just don't think they shouldn't label a paedophile to having a mental illness that causes them to be inclined in that way. Even today I'm sure those who indulge in incest is classed as having a mental illness so who's to say that someday in the future even incest Will be regarded as normal within society as long as you have 2 consenting adults? As sad as it sounds this is the reality of today's world its a very complex situation we find ourselves in. I don't buy it either Saf when you consider some very high up well educated folk have been involved in this activity like Senior Judges, Mp's etc wether their brain scans show up the same area's as each other is debatable. I sincerely hope that incest never gets the go ahead, It's like beastilality it's bloody awful and sad, talk about flogging a dead horse :whistles: Yeah more research should be done but we must be careful not to blame it on a MH condition which seems to be the norm sadly. Cheers
Even today I'm sure those who indulge in incest is classed as having a mental illness so who's to say that someday in the future even incest Will be regarded as normal within society as long as you have 2 consenting adults? As sad as it sounds this is the reality of today's world its a very complex situation we find ourselves in.
Things are heading in that direction at a rapid rate, basically every type of deviant behaviour is being normalised and actively promoted to the masses especially children. Don't forget that not long ago there was a organisation called PIE pushing for paedophilia to be legalised, these people were some of the most powerful in Britain, they haven't disappeared but are now in our Parliament, courts, police force and media. We're in big trouble and if the masses don't wake up to what's going on soon, the Marxist takeover of this country will be complete.
I don't buy it either Saf when you consider some very high up well educated folk have been involved in this activity like Senior Judges, Mp's etc wether their brain scans show up the same area's as each other is debatable. I sincerely hope that incest never gets the go ahead, It's like beastilality it's bloody awful and sad, talk about flogging a dead horse :whistles: Yeah more research should be done but we must be careful not to blame it on a MH condition which seems to be the norm sadly. Cheers
That's the point Dave where does the boundaries lie with enough pressure and arm bending you can eventually get the government to officially accept any minority group and I like the point you made about the higher ups indulging in such acts why are they never put in the same category as the ones who are less privileged it doesnt make sense look at all the cases of paedophilia coming out of the celebrity world, Political world and even the religious world by those involved with the establishment its been happening for years yet when they catch joe blogs from down the road he was just a lone wolf with a mental illness who was lonely and was in need of company they want the public to be in some way sympathetic so that if those higher up were ever caught they too would expect the public to be sympathetic and serve a very soft lenient sentence from a justice system which they themselves created.
Things are heading in that direction at a rapid rate, basically every type of deviant behaviour is being normalised and actively promoted to the masses especially children. Don't forget that not long ago there was a organisation called PIE pushing for paedophilia to be legalised, these people were some of the most powerful in Britain, they haven't disappeared but are now in our Parliament, courts, police force and media. We're in big trouble and if the masses don't wake up to what's going on soon, the Marxist takeover of this country will be complete. Never heard of that organisation PIE but knew through the news that high up ppl where involved in this evil behaviour and it's because they are high up and highly respected they be come untouchable. similar to JS's Case he did so much for charity yeah right etc he was untouchable too. WTF its dreadful:mad: Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
16-08-17, 19:31
I agree with you about the problem with paedophilia and the solution for it but I'm just not buying this whole mental illness thing lets look at grooming gangs for instance lets say you have a gang of 4-5 should we consider that they all have the same mental illness to do what they do never mind the grooming gangs that contain maybe 15-20 predators. In my book a crime is a crime and should be punished accordingly am I saying a paedophile could never have a mental illness No I just don't think they shouldn't label a paedophile to having a mental illness that causes them to be inclined in that way. Even today I'm sure those who indulge in incest is classed as having a mental illness so who's to say that someday in the future even incest Will be regarded as normal within society as long as you have 2 consenting adults? As sad as it sounds this is the reality of today's world its a very complex situation we find ourselves in.
I agree, labelling needs to be very careful and a very specialised assessment is needed for that. But I think there has to be categories inside paedophilia to separate out those who are committing these crimes for other reasons.
For instance, you mention the gangs. Some of these gangs have a religious or cultural basis, however warped we may view it. These people are not those I would consider having any form of mental health issue as they have be taught to be a certain way is normal by their peers & elders e.g. the gangs exlcusively praying on white children because they view them as trash which came out in the recent case beig discussed on Dave's other thread. Their attitudes were more akin to misogynists. These guys are a far cry from the older image of paedophiles who have other signs of problems in their lives.
Then we have people coming from countries where it is acceptible or legal at ages below ours. Again, these are just criminals.
Was incest considered a crime before it was considered a potential illness? But incest has been around in human society for thousands of years and I don't believe it's a simple issue, just as we are saying paedophilia isn't.
I do think mental health has to be taken into account in crime otherwise it sacrifices people with other disorders who commit crimes such as schizophrenics when in an episode of psychosis or delusion. But it's certainly true that we have moved towards too much categorisation of behaviour. We can learn to understand it without giving them an "out" in court.
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Things are heading in that direction at a rapid rate, basically every type of deviant behaviour is being normalised and actively promoted to the masses especially children. Don't forget that not long ago there was a organisation called PIE pushing for paedophilia to be legalised, these people were some of the most powerful in Britain, they haven't disappeared but are now in our Parliament, courts, police force and media. We're in big trouble and if the masses don't wake up to what's going on soon, the Marxist takeover of this country will be complete.
I view this differently - we have come from a position where it was acceptable.
We had several teachers at my school who kissed, perved over or even slept with pupils under 16. They got slaps on the wrist and continued to practice. The pervy one was watching boys in the showers long before I went there, as my brother is 9 years older than me and he knew about it, and it was going on after I left. Nowadays they get outed in the media and jailed.
Attitudes have changed. They've been hardened to the realities of the damage casued by the cases of abuse in public services decades ago that have come out. A good film depicting it in the US was Sleepers.
Go further back in history, you will see it was fine to marry your daughter of to some old bloke for money. The rich did it more than anyone!
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Never heard of that organisation PIE but knew through the news that high up ppl where involved in this evil behaviour and it's because they are high up and highly respected they be come untouchable. similar to JS's Case he did so much for charity yeah right etc he was untouchable too. WTF its dreadful:mad: Cheers
They latched onto the gay rights movement.
Some of our more recent politicians, including ones still in politics (Jack Dromey in Birmingham, for instance) were connected to PIE when they were working their way up through their early activism circles.
PIE were finally rounded up & jailed.
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That's the point Dave where does the boundaries lie with enough pressure and arm bending you can eventually get the government to officially accept any minority group and I like the point you made about the higher ups indulging in such acts why are they never put in the same category as the ones who are less privileged it doesnt make sense look at all the cases of paedophilia coming out of the celebrity world, Political world and even the religious world by those involved with the establishment its been happening for years yet when they catch joe blogs from down the road he was just a lone wolf with a mental illness who was lonely and was in need of company they want the public to be in some way sympathetic so that if those higher up were ever caught they too would expect the public to be sympathetic and serve a very soft lenient sentence from a justice system which they themselves created.
That's just life, it won't change. Crime pays when you are loaded.
Look at Tony Blair. Untouchable because he will have so much dirt on those that are still around.
People will happily look down their nose at the poor homeless man/woman on the streets begging, brand them as drunks & junkies, and then proclam how great the likes of Amy Winehouse were with their "troubled lives" just because they have a talent. :doh:
[QUOTE=saf138;1709121]That's the point Dave where does the boundaries lie with enough pressure and arm bending you can eventually get the government to officially accept any minority group and I like the point you made about the higher ups indulging in such acts why are they never put in the same category as the ones who are less privileged it doesnt make sense look at all the cases of paedophilia coming out of the celebrity world, Political world and even the religious world by those involved with the establishment its been happening for years yet when they catch joe blogs from down the road he was just a lone wolf with a mental illness who was lonely and was in need of company they want the public to be in some way sympathetic so that if those higher up were ever caught they too would expect the public to be sympathetic and serve a very soft lenient sentence from a justice system which they themselves created.[/QUOTE Exactly Saf But, on a totally different subject (sorry for drifting off slightly OT ;) ) Do you think the Government will actually bend on accepting ISIS and other similar groups No, But know what you are saying As for paedophilia I actually cant see it being made law sure there are pedo's in the parliament but nah don't think it will happen unless the age of consent is lowered yet again think it's too low IMHO doesn't bear thinking about really! Cheers
I bloody hope the government never bend to accepting Isis but than again nothing suprises me nowadays it wasnt too long ago Turkey was caught red handed dealing with Isis with oil and they are still regarded as a valuable member of nato. As for the age of consent that in itself is another problem as it is a subjective issue since to some 18 may be limit and to some others a much younger age would be acceptable like I said its a very complex issue to deal with and I believe that is part of the problem from having a secular system in place it now becomes all subjective to those in power in which endless debates will take place to no avail.
MyNameIsTerry
16-08-17, 20:09
Turkey are tolerated by everyone despite the state of human rights in their country and the power grabs. Can you imagine Turkey joining the EU? I know it's a long way off, if ever, but their current political attitudes are pretty bad. The same with tolerance of various regimes in the ME.
I guess it depends how far politics lurches to the left whether we go that far. :winks: I would hope not but who knows with some of the Labour front bench these days. Of course, it could only last a certain amount of time as public opinion increases and a group like ISIS use it as a means to cause terror in the UK.
One of the issues with PIE was wanting to reduce the age of consent. They wanted it pretty low. The issue of kids having sex is a totally separate one to grown adults wanting to prey on them. But it is a complicated matter where you cross over from 15 as your social circle can still be below the age of consent but I suspect the legal system knows how to deal with that?
Luxrious conditions in jail? Have any of you actually been in jail?
I used to post on a forum with a guy who had a lovely pic he reserved for threads like this, it depicted a tree with a noose thrown over its branch. Under the pic was written "hang em high".
So, so apt.
Things are heading in that direction at a rapid rate, basically every type of deviant behaviour is being normalised and actively promoted to the masses especially children. Don't forget that not long ago there was a organisation called PIE pushing for paedophilia to be legalised, these people were some of the most powerful in Britain, they haven't disappeared but are now in our Parliament, courts, police force and media. We're in big trouble and if the masses don't wake up to what's going on soon, the Marxist takeover of this country will be complete. I hope not Hollow Think it wasn't that long ago in London where some Mp's live in a exclusive digs (just trying to remember the name of the complex)and was involved in some child scandal. So what I want to know why are these high up people getting away with it To me there is no room in Government or the Police Service or any other sector for that matter so why have they got away with it? Cheers
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Luxrious conditions in jail? Have any of you actually been in jail?
I used to post on a forum with a guy who had a lovely pic he reserved for threads like this, it depicted a tree with a noose thrown over its branch. Under the pic was written "hang em high".
So, so apt. No I haven't cant speak for anyone else on here be interesting if any have been in jail. But from what you are saying because I haven't been Jail I wouldn't know?? Well seen many docs on Tv and news bulletins and some prisons are really comfortable and that's why I started this thread and like I say all comments are welcome some down and outs will commit a small crime and will go to prison for say a couple of weeks why cause they get access to 3 meals a day a warm bed and exercise etc. some prisons don't even look like prison like open prisons with no high security fencing. So again some prisons are cushy compared to say 50 years ago Fact! Thanks for your comments! Cheers
I agree with you Dave even though i have never spent any time in jail I once knew this guy who was always getting in trouble he was well known for his naughtiness getting up to all sorts and he once told us that because he could never afford a holiday he would break the law just be locked up for a few weeks to get away I also have a friend who spent 4 years in jail and I once asked him if he regretting everything he did and would he do it again and he told me the way the prison system is he would have risk it all over again.
MyNameIsTerry
17-08-17, 13:34
Well my brother's GF has told us about her experiences in an open prison as well as seeing what others have. Some people say they have a better life inside than out and wouldn't they know?
Are we talking about Australian or UK prisons? What do you know about the UK prisons and justice system? How about living at the shit end of life in the UK?
Thought not. Apparently discussing the light sentencing that the police complain about means everyone wants to hang people. :roflmao:
Trolling again Terry?
Dickhead
MyNameIsTerry
17-08-17, 13:49
Nope, I think it's more likely you are trolling, I'm already involved in this debate. Hardly surprising to me.
Great attitude.
Well my brother's GF has told us about her experiences in an open prison as well as seeing what others have. Some people say they have a better life inside than out and wouldn't they know?
Are we talking about Australian or UK prisons? What do you know about the UK prisons and justice system? How about living at the shit end of life in the UK?
Thought not. Apparently discussing the light sentencing that the police complain about means everyone wants to hang people. :roflmao:
Why do you have to take the piss, Terry? Swajj was voicing her opinion in a civilised way :lac:
MyNameIsTerry
17-08-17, 13:51
Why do you have to take the piss, Terry? Swajj was voicing her opinion in a civilised way :lac:
Was she?
I hope not Hollow Think it wasn't that long ago in London where some Mp's live in a exclusive digs (just trying to remember the name of the complex)and was involved in some child scandal. So what I want to know why are these high up people getting away with it To me there is no room in Government or the Police Service or any other sector for that matter so why have they got away with it? Cheers
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No I haven't cant speak for anyone else on here be interesting if any have been in jail. But from what you are saying because I haven't been Jail I wouldn't know?? Well seen many docs on Tv and news bulletins and some prisons are really comfortable and that's why I started this thread and like I say all comments are welcome some down and outs will commit a small crime and will go to prison for say a couple of weeks why cause they get access to 3 meals a day a warm bed and exercise etc. some prisons don't even look like prison like open prisons with no high security fencing. So again some prisons are cushy compared to say 50 years ago Fact! Thanks for your comments! Cheers
I've been inside almost every jail in NSW Australia. There is not one that could by any stretch of the imagination be described as a "holiday camp". Have I been inside any UK prisons? No but I'd be willing to bet that they can no more be described as holiday camps than Australian jails. If you lock people up and treat them like animals then that is what you put back on the streets "animals".
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I post on NMP infrequently. You post on here all day and night (at least it seems that way). I rarely post on the same threads as you. You frequently follow me on threads and dissect my posts. So who is the troll?
MyNameIsTerry
17-08-17, 14:02
Wrong.
Anyway back on topic.
Prison isn't working as a deterrent for many. It seems hard to make it one workout harsher sentencing.
I was watching that 999 programme last night and several of them got suspended sentencing despite committing ABH with sticks or one who was of a pain threatening to kill (the other got 2 years for having a knife and trying to pull it on the arresting officer).
nomorepanic
17-08-17, 14:28
swajj - no need for name calling please.
I have read a few books from the notorious Mark "Chopper" read and from what I gathered I'd been be more concerned about having an ice pick drilled in the back of my head than the actual prison punishment itself and swajj puts it nicely about putting a pack of animals together in a confined space its either you quickly get yourself in a pack and get very chummy with the screws or your in alot of bother. On a separate note though its not beneficial to anyone if we all start bickering and arguing about petty stuff we all have the right to an opinion and that should be respected.
MyNameIsTerry
17-08-17, 14:38
It's going to differ between countries. Look at the ones in South America :ohmy:
I don't agree with treating people like animals either. For a start, it attracts a certain type of PO that we don't want and it likely only breeds resentment. But then we can go the other way too.
The lack of staffing in prisons isn't helping either. And the mess that was the super prison. What a mess.
Apologies for my part in the thread going OT.
When you have ministers coming out and claiming that prisons are no longer a place for punishment than you know things are definitely bad but the whole situation is so complex maybe a much more strict deterent should be put in place not saying Saudi Arabian deterant for cutting of the hands and what not just a way to make offenders think twice.
MyNameIsTerry
17-08-17, 16:35
Did anyone see the documentary about use of spice in prisons? Pretty shocking. Vulnerable prisoners being exploited to get a hit of it. They were offering themselves for beatings for fun by the dealers. Some were termed "spice pigs" who were used for testing the stuff.
My brother's GF spent lots of time on suicide watches. Lots of mental health problems in her prison. Some just kept coming back as they couldn't cope in society.
It's needs to be tougher on those that deserve it but then the vulnerable ones need a different solution to get them back out so they don't come back in. Those who couldn't care less need it tougher, the police must be sick of them.
I agree with you Dave even though i have never spent any time in jail I once knew this guy who was always getting in trouble he was well known for his naughtiness getting up to all sorts and he once told us that because he could never afford a holiday he would break the law just be locked up for a few weeks to get away I also have a friend who spent 4 years in jail and I once asked him if he regretting everything he did and would he do it again and he told me the way the prison system is he would have risk it all over again. Exactly Saf it needs to get tougher by far Does any one remember that Borstal series on ITV a couple of years back when seven young lads were taken back in time to do Borstal 195o's style what a joke that was some of them couldn't hack it and left on their own accord lol that wouldn't not have been a option in the 1950's I was disappointed in the series though not true to that era:huh:
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swajj - no need for name calling please. Thank you Nic One warning off me any more of it I will delete this thread Cheers
---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:44 ----------
It's going to differ between countries. Look at the ones in South America :ohmy:
I don't agree with treating people like animals either. For a start, it attracts a certain type of PO that we don't want and it likely only breeds resentment. But then we can go the other way too.
The lack of staffing in prisons isn't helping either. And the mess that was the super prison. What a mess.
Apologies for my part in the thread going OT.Terry I Know, but think we mostly agree prison is not as tough as it should be, sure more staff is needed instead of outside contractors like G4 running the prisons I would personally like to see more of a stricter regime basic home comforts and that's it Cheers
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When you have ministers coming out and claiming that prisons are no longer a place for punishment than you know things are definitely bad but the whole situation is so complex maybe a much more strict deterent should be put in place not saying Saudi Arabian deterant for cutting of the hands and what not just a way to make offenders think twice.
That is spot on Saf cant add anything to that apart from Human rights groups would be straight on it like a dog with a bone! Cheers
I haven;t posted before but I thought I would on this one. I've been in prison so might look at things differently than others on here. My father was a prison officer and my older brother is a police officer so growing up all I heard was that crime was out of control, criminals should be locked up and throw away the key and all they should get is bread and water and that was probably what I thought too but when you are there yourself you look at things very differently.
Hi Folks and another new debate this time on Prisons. Are they now too soft and do some of them resemble holiday camps with everything laid on?
I actually think some of them are way too cushy (sure your freedom is limited)
What with TV's in the cells and 3 meals a day GYM etc ,etc. It does make me wonder and discipline should it be harder I think it should. Comments please from all angles! Cheers
I know people think prisons are holiday camps and that the papers go on about that all the time but they are not. Maybe if you have loads of problems in your life and don't have anything on the outside they are but for most "normal" people they are not. I've been in Cat B and Cat C prisons so that;s what I know. The Cat D (open) prisons are probably much different but I've never been in one.
My first night in prison was in a place with more than 1,000 other prisoners. I didn't know anyone and it was a crazy situation. I was in a cell with another guy and was pretty much banged up for the entire week in that tiny cell.
What's the problem with 3 meals a day? Do you think prisoners shouldn't get fed? Breakfast is cereal in your cell. Lunch is salad or sandwiches and dinner is a proper meal, Food is OK but nothing special - like school or hospital food.
Yes there are TVs in your cell. Most people have TVs today. Talk to any screw and they will say it is much better that there are TVs in cells as it keeps prisoners occupied. There are only a few screws compared to the number of prisoners so it makes their lives easier too and means there is less trouble.
You might only get to the gym once a week but it is a good way to let off steam. It's not a big deal really.
Another issue is with the police is getting pally with suspects calling them mate If you are arrested the police should not be calling you mate and vice versa, it's being too familiar in my book. Cheers
It's different with the police and the screws. When you get arrested it makes sense for the police to try and get on with you as they are looking for you to talk. My brother says that the best thing used to be letting a prisoner have a smoke but they can't really do that now as they aren't even allowed smoke outside now. They prefer people to be co-operative.
Similar like I said about the screws. There are only a few of them compared to prisoners and it's easier for them if they get along with the prisoners. They don't get too close to us but you can be around them all day. No prisoners wants to be seen as too friendly with the screws either.
No I haven't cant speak for anyone else on here be interesting if any have been in jail. But from what you are saying because I haven't been Jail I wouldn't know?? Well seen many docs on Tv and news bulletins and some prisons are really comfortable and that's why I started this thread and like I say all comments are welcome some down and outs will commit a small crime and will go to prison for say a couple of weeks why cause they get access to 3 meals a day a warm bed and exercise etc. some prisons don't even look like prison like open prisons with no high security fencing. So again some prisons are cushy compared to say 50 years ago Fact! Thanks for your comments! Cheers
The prisons I was in had high walls and fencing. As I said before life would have to be pretty bad to "want" to go inside but there are those who have been in prison so much it is like home. Prison was probably worse 50 years ago - even 20 years ago - but so were people's lives outside of prison too. Times change and things change too.
I've been inside almost every jail in NSW Australia. There is not one that could by any stretch of the imagination be described as a "holiday camp". Have I been inside any UK prisons? No but I'd be willing to bet that they can no more be described as holiday camps than Australian jails. If you lock people up and treat them like animals then that is what you put back on the streets "animals"dissect my posts. So who is the troll?
People never think about that though. 99% people get out of prison and what happens then. There should be much more in prisons about doing education and courses and getting people lined up with work for when they get out.
Another thing that somebody said was about letting people out early from their sentences, But that's the system and teh judges know that when they sentence you. I got 3 years so they knew I would do half in prison and the rest on license. And when you are on license you still have to be monitored by the Probation Service and can get recalled to prison at any time if you breach your license so you are not exactly a free man.
MyNameIsTerry
18-08-17, 01:50
Judges are still too light regardless of the half sentencing. If I cite one I read today, a man convicted of GBH put on a 2 year suspended in a domestic violence case. :shrug: Slap on the wrist.
It's the lack of parity between courts & judges. I then read about a substance misuser committing two basic robberies getting sent down for years.
As far as being lined up for work when prisoners leave jail, courses are fair enough but then it's in the queue with everyone else looking for work. They shouldn't be prioritised. It's going to hard to find that work with a record though for many and then the cycle just comes back round again for many but unfortunately that can't be resolved as employers should be able to choose so they are naturally going to shy away from those with criminal records. The same can be said for being unemployed, employers prioritise those already in work but it;s not something easily solved.
Hi and welcome to NMP, Ryan :welcome:
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whereas the poor victim has to live an absolute nightmare till the day they die.
^^^ A very important point there. In many crimes the victim may spend their lives dealing with the aftermath (we have had domestic violence victims on here, for instance) so in the case of some crimes there can be little sympathy for loss of rights in prison, surely? For instance, murders. The victim gets a life sentence.
Obviously its not the same for many petty crimes although it's one to judge on merit as even those can have long reaching effects e.g. pensioners burgled.
There is a guy down my dads local pub who's son was slowly poisoned with anti freeze until she was finally caught. Imagine the damage that caused? He's blind, for instance. Can I have much sympathy if she loses any privileges?
Hi Ryan and welcome aboard to NMP :) Sure I hear you and yeah you lose your freedom mate, but I disagree quite a bit, it should be made tougher inside as a deterent if you read the whole thread you will see what we are saying, no disrespect to you for being on the other side of the fence I am not saying bread and water etc, but think it's gone too far in the wrong direction if you follow? Some open prisons there's one near where I live about 6 miles away at Werrington and it's a open prison no high wall etc. To me the regime should be military style in my opinion or at least to some degree. and as Terry says in some countrys there prisons are worse than our Victorian jails when they were first opened. so it's swing and roundabouts I guess. Thanks for your comments Cheers
---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:21 ----------
Judges are still too light regardless of the half sentencing. If I cite one I read today, a man convicted of GBH put on a 2 year suspended in a domestic violence case. :shrug: Slap on the wrist.
It's the lack of parity between courts & judges. I then read about a substance misuser committing two basic robberies getting sent down for years.
As far as being lined up for work when prisoners leave jail, courses are fair enough but then it's in the queue with everyone else looking for work. They shouldn't be prioritised. It's going to hard to find that work with a record though for many and then the cycle just comes back round again for many but unfortunately that can't be resolved as employers should be able to choose so they are naturally going to shy away from those with criminal records. The same can be said for being unemployed, employers prioritise those already in work but it;s not something easily solved.
Hi and welcome to NMP, Ryan :welcome:
---------- Post added at 01:50 ---------- Previous post was at 00:47 ----------
^^^ A very important point there. In many crimes the victim may spend their lives dealing with the aftermath (we have had domestic violence victims on here, for instance) so in the case of some crimes there can be little sympathy for loss of rights in prison, surely? For instance, murders. The victim gets a life sentence.
Obviously its not the same for many petty crimes although it's one to judge on merit as even those can have long reaching effects e.g. pensioners burgled.
There is a guy down my dads local pub who's son was slowly poisoned with anti freeze until she was finally caught. Imagine the damage that caused? He's blind, for instance. Can I have much sympathy if she loses any privileges? Terry that's a terrible story what was her sentence after she was caught bet it wasn't worth writing home about? I personally would have 0 sympathy, 0 Empathy too so feel exactly like you do so sad.Edit: Judges well they cant always be blamed it's down to our parliament that set guide lines etc Take Maya Hindley life then meant life as it should be today with no remission Just because you behave your self behind bars should not give you a automatic right to time off your sentence the justice system needs overhauling big time and across the board. Cheers
Thanks for the welcome - I know my views on this won't be the same as many people but just wanted to post and appreciate you not having a go at me and listening to my take on things.
I guess most of you are saying that sentences should be longer and maybe they should for some crimes and especially for repeat offenders - even I can understand this. But people give out about how much it costs to keep people in prison so that would cost even more. The one thing I can say is that if you get a long sentence even mine you have plenty of time to think about things like how you ended up in there and how it affected my victim as well as my family and girlfriend. O did think about all that alot. You might be surprised that most prisoners when they leave prison say they will start again and stay out of trouble and won't be back but that doesn't always happen. When I was inside I saw people get out and ending up back in prison in a few months or even less.
Judges are still too light regardless of the half sentencing. If I cite one I read today, a man convicted of GBH put on a 2 year suspended in a domestic violence case. :shrug: Slap on the wrist.
It's the lack of parity between courts & judges. I then read about a substance misuser committing two basic robberies getting sent down for years.
As far as being lined up for work when prisoners leave jail, courses are fair enough but then it's in the queue with everyone else looking for work. They shouldn't be prioritised. It's going to hard to find that work with a record though for many and then the cycle just comes back round again for many but unfortunately that can't be resolved as employers should be able to choose so they are naturally going to shy away from those with criminal records. The same can be said for being unemployed, employers prioritise those already in work but it;s not something easily solved.
Hi and welcome to NMP, Ryan :welcome
On the work thing there are some schemes where you do get help with getting a job but not too much and they are for pretty standard jobs and you have to work hard to get it. I was working in the kitchens and did 2 courses and ended up when I got out getting a trial working in a kitchen in a hotel. It really helped me having a job to go to instead of having to look around. I really think there should be more of that.
Hi Ryan and welcome aboard to NMP :) Sure I hear you and yeah you lose your freedom mate, but I disagree quite a bit, it should be made tougher inside as a deterent if you read the whole thread you will see what we are saying, no disrespect to you for being on the other side of the fence I am not saying bread and water etc, but think it's gone too far in the wrong direction if you follow? Some open prisons there's one near where I live about 6 miles away at Werrington and it's a open prison no high wall etc. To me the regime should be military style in my opinion or at least to some degree. and as Terry says in some countrys there prisons are worse than our Victorian jails when they were first opened. so it's swing and roundabouts I guess. Thanks for your comments Cheers
Hope you don't mind me asking how do you think they could make it tougher inside than it is and would work? In some ways the toughest part for me was not being around for things that were going on in the real world. I missed out on my girlfriend giving birth and seeing my baby and the worse thing was not being around when my mother was sick and not getting a chance to say goodbye and having to go to the funeral in handcuffs and with prison guards and everybody seeing me like that especially with having police and prison officer background. That was hard and I know prison is meant to be a punishment but with other things as well it made me really decide to change my life and never end up back inside again. I think some of it was realising I wasn't a kid anymore and with a girlfriend and baby now had responsibilities. My big problem was/is drink and what I did when I was drunk so I have pretty much stopped drinking since getting out and know i am better person because of that.
Also interested in what you say about military style prisons. I joined the Army when I was 18, did a tour in Afghanistan but ended up getting discharged from the Army. I also spent some time in MCTC Colchester (the army's jail) and it is so much different from regular prison. From being in the Army I could have coped with that but don't think it would work for most people inside.
I know there are many places with worse prisons than UK - have seen stuff on Russian prisons and South America and Asia and am much happier that I was in prison here but there are some places like Norway where prison is meant to be very easy and I think they say that the re-offending rates are lower there. So does that mean softer prisons are better?
MyNameIsTerry
18-08-17, 22:01
Ryan, I don't think you are the kind of person I would think of needing things to be a deterrent as losing your freedom was important you. It's more those prisoners who couldn't care less and it's just a way of life to them. you sound like a guy who thik a about the consequences of his actions, that's a million miles away from some of the people I've known. I grew up around guys like that and the problem was very much inside them and how their families were. It really isn't a surprise about the staying out of trouble lasting very little, certainly not to me anyway.
I knew a guy at the walk-on groups who had been an alcoholic for most of his life. He said going to prison was the best thing that happened to him...and he was 8 years dry the last time I saw him years ago and went into prisons to talk to others.
Good on you for stopping what was taking you a place you didn't like. :yesyes::yahoo:
I don't think you can link hard jails meaning more offending when looking at very different countries. We're not in the Favelas. Comparing similiar countries is more interesting though.
I agree with the courses. As long as there is equality between the unempolyed, that is.
We could argue no one should be put in prison because it costs money. It's an argument some have for the death penalty too. But it's a necessary evil and sentences really shouldn't be influenced by government penny pinching.
You have to be pretty open minded in a forum like this. Many of us have come off the rails in different ways to be in the position we are in wanting help (I'm not squeeky clean, just been lucky). There was a guy on here who recently left who was in a far eastern jail, I bet he would be a good person to talk about this as his conditions will be awful.
Yeah thanks. With everything I've been through I am a much different person than I was 5 years ago. I suppose looking back getting a 3 year prison sentence changed my life and eventhough it was tough it probably worked for me so I can see the positives of it now. Life is much better for me now and I just hope I never end up back in prison but I know if I did I could cope.
Thanks for the welcome - I know my views on this won't be the same as many people but just wanted to post and appreciate you not having a go at me and listening to my take on things.
I guess most of you are saying that sentences should be longer and maybe they should for some crimes and especially for repeat offenders - even I can understand this. But people give out about how much it costs to keep people in prison so that would cost even more. The one thing I can say is that if you get a long sentence even mine you have plenty of time to think about things like how you ended up in there and how it affected my victim as well as my family and girlfriend. O did think about all that alot. You might be surprised that most prisoners when they leave prison say they will start again and stay out of trouble and won't be back but that doesn't always happen. When I was inside I saw people get out and ending up back in prison in a few months or even less.
On the work thing there are some schemes where you do get help with getting a job but not too much and they are for pretty standard jobs and you have to work hard to get it. I was working in the kitchens and did 2 courses and ended up when I got out getting a trial working in a kitchen in a hotel. It really helped me having a job to go to instead of having to look around. I really think there should be more of that.
Hope you don't mind me asking how do you think they could make it tougher inside than it is and would work? In some ways the toughest part for me was not being around for things that were going on in the real world. I missed out on my girlfriend giving birth and seeing my baby and the worse thing was not being around when my mother was sick and not getting a chance to say goodbye and having to go to the funeral in handcuffs and with prison guards and everybody seeing me like that especially with having police and prison officer background. That was hard and I know prison is meant to be a punishment but with other things as well it made me really decide to change my life and never end up back inside again. I think some of it was realising I wasn't a kid anymore and with a girlfriend and baby now had responsibilities. My big problem was/is drink and what I did when I was drunk so I have pretty much stopped drinking since getting out and know i am better person because of that.
Also interested in what you say about military style prisons. I joined the Army when I was 18, did a tour in Afghanistan but ended up getting discharged from the Army. I also spent some time in MCTC Colchester (the army's jail) and it is so much different from regular prison. From being in the Army I could have coped with that but don't think it would work for most people inside.
I know there are many places with worse prisons than UK - have seen stuff on Russian prisons and South America and Asia and am much happier that I was in prison here but there are some places like Norway where prison is meant to be very easy and I think they say that the re-offending rates are lower there. So does that mean softer prisons are better? Hi Ryan Not atall so it worked for you for the reasons you stated, but even with the same reasons other prisoners keep returning time after time. I admire and respect you for admissions etc that cant be easy? I am not on about being violent to them but think because people are people many need bringing down a peg or 2 and are too cocky for their own good It may not work for everyone but those who didn't tow the line would be shouted out and sorry and I mean shouted at and in their face, and basically given tasks to do like menial labour etc .You say you have been in the army mate Respect to you for that:yesyes: Great training, good prospects and good mates :) You stated
you did some time in the army's Jail(how many times if you don't mind me asking?) and coped with that, is that because You had already got used to the army's regime so knew what was coming?
I think for the habitual offenders army style prisons run like the army(even disciplines in the army etc have slackened off in some ways, over the years) could be the way forward and even maybe some first time offenders should be given a short introduction to that type of prison hoping it sinks in and give them a wake up call. Just my opinions, but that's what makes this forum great we are given a platform to have our say :) Cheers
---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------
Yeah thanks. With everything I've been through I am a much different person than I was 5 years ago. I suppose looking back getting a 3 year prison sentence changed my life and eventhough it was tough it probably worked for me so I can see the positives of it now. Life is much better for me now and I just hope I never end up back in prison but I know if I did I could cope. Well yeah but infact you probably only did 18 months (unless you misbehaved) you said it was 'tough' but say you hope you never go back to prison! You need to be 100% on this mate.What Cat Prison was it? If we go back a few posts on Education programmes Yeah I am all for this too and when any one leaves prison either on licence or not they shouldn't be just chucked out and left to fend for them selves there must be proper support too :) Cheers
Exactly Saf it needs to get tougher by far Does any one remember that Borstal series on ITV a couple of years back when seven young lads were taken back in time to do Borstal 195o's style what a joke that was some of them couldn't hack it and left on their own accord lol that wouldn't not have been a option in the 1950's I was disappointed in the series though not true to that era.
That is spot on Saf cant add anything to that apart from Human rights groups would be straight on it like a dog with a bone! Cheers
I never did watch the series about the Borstals but I can just imagine how much of a failure it was and that is because its just a series that's not taken seriously enough the problem with the youth today is that they have become quite lazy and that is mainly do to the times we live in with all the technological advances around us thats supposed to make our lives easier is in fact making us lazier in many ways for for example God forbid we were hit with a huge natural disaster where we had to rely on ourselves for survival how many people out there know how to grow a simple tomato? Or start a fire? Or even something simple as collecting rain water?
So its no wonder the young lads couldnt hack it on the series its simply down to them not being able to handle situations that's taken em out of that comfort zone.
As for your second point about human right groups being on it like a dog with a bone I wonder if they would have the same reaction if it was on the other foot and it was they who had a loved one raped or murdered touch wood it doesn't.
---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 15:03 ----------
A very important point there. In many crimes the victim may spend their lives dealing with the aftermath (we have had domestic violence victims on here, for instance) so in the case of some crimes there can be little sympathy for loss of rights in prison, surely? For instance, murders. The victim gets a life sentence.
Obviously its not the same for many petty crimes although it's one to judge on merit as even those can have long reaching effects e.g. pensioners burgled.
There is a guy down my dads local pub who's son was slowly poisoned with anti freeze until she was finally caught. Imagine the damage that caused? He's blind, for instance. Can I have much sympathy if she loses any privileges?
So what is your view on say Americas 3 strike rule whereas the third strike no matter how petty the crime would see the offender doing time for quite a few years maybe we should adopt the same system as a way to deter those reoffenders and I even mentioned Saudi Arabia's law for theft for instance okay the law says it could mean the offender loses a hand but not many people realise it must go through a judicial system first in where the offence has to be reviewed entirely and why did the offender commit the theft was the offender poor or rich? was it due to extreme poverty? Was the offender forced into doing it? And its a very lengthy process and if the offender is found to have done it out of desperation he could be let on his way so laws like that is a means to deter those from commiting the offence in the first place. I agree that a life for a life should mean just that unless it was in a form of self defence.
As for the guy who was sliwly poisoned things like that should never be tolerated in any justice system that's disgusting thing to do what was the outcome for the person who did it?
Hi Ryan Not atall so it worked for you for the reasons you stated, but even with the same reasons other prisoners keep returning time after time. I admire and respect you for admissions etc that cant be easy? I am not on about being violent to them but think because people are people many need bringing down a peg or 2 and are too cocky for their own good It may not work for everyone but those who didn't tow the line would be shouted out and sorry and I mean shouted at and in their face, and basically given tasks to do like menial labour etc .You say you have been in the army mate Respect to you for that:yesyes: Great training, good prospects and good mates :) You stated
you did some time in the army's Jail(how many times if you don't mind me asking?) and coped with that, is that because You had already got used to the army's regime so knew what was coming?
I think for the habitual offenders army style prisons run like the army(even disciplines in the army etc have slackened off in some ways, over the years) could be the way forward and even maybe some first time offenders should be given a short introduction to that type of prison hoping it sinks in and give them a wake up call. Just my opinions, but that's what makes this forum great we are given a platform to have our say :) Cheers
---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------
Well yeah but infact you probably only did 18 months (unless you misbehaved) you said it was 'tough' but say you hope you never go back to prison! You need to be 100% on this mate.What Cat Prison was it? If we go back a few posts on Education programmes Yeah I am all for this too and when any one leaves prison either on licence or not they shouldn't be just chucked out and left to fend for them selves there must be proper support too :) Cheers
Yeah I got 3 years but kept out of trouble in there and got out after 18 months for good behaviour and then was on license for the other 18 months. I started off in a Cat B prison (Manchester/Strangeways) and it took me a while to get approved for Cat C because of what I was in for - GBH. Got transferred to Risley which is Cat C and training prison.
Everybody starts off on standard regime but you can get changed to enhanced or even super enhanced after a certain ammount of time and you get more privileges. You can also get reduced to basic where you lose privileges.
Yeah I mostly enjoyed my time in the Army. It was always what I wanted to do as a kid. I had a couple of nights in the Guardroom cells for minor things but only did one sentence at the army jail (MCTC Colchester).
I had been warned that I would end up there and had heard stories about how bad it was so I knew what to expect. It was likebeing back in basic training again only worse. It's divided in two - one unit for those soldiering on like me and another unit for those getting kicked out.
For us it was getting up first thing - PT, drill, marches, inspections and army training with other courses to do as well. The staff were very strict and you were kept busy all day long. When we were going anywhere we had to march at double speed (Trot) and got punished for doing anything wrong. You did have some free time in the evening but that was mainly spent getting your uniform and kit ready for inspection. I always felt wrecked by the evening and just wanted to go to bed. There was plenty of getting shouted at and menial labour as you say. We had no TVs (DVD at the weekend) and everything was a privilege you had to earn - even being allowed to smoke. It was tough and I remember when I was in prison thinking how would some of the lads in there cope with that. In MCTC nearly everybody accepted the way it was and there was very little trouble or people kicking off but that wouldn't be tolerated. Looking back on it I left there as a much better and fitter soldier and got back to my unit and contiued on as a soldier for a couple of years.
There's a documentary you can see on You Tube called the Glasshouse about MCTC Colchester and what it is like there. It's from maybe 10 years before i was there but it was pretty much the same for us (apart from the haircuts which looked mad and wouldn't be allowed when I was there).
I even mentioned Saudi Arabia's law for theft for instance okay the law says it could mean the offender loses a hand but not many people realise it must go through a judicial system first in where the offence has to be reviewed entirely and why did the offender commit the theft was the offender poor or rich? was it due to extreme poverty? Was the offender forced into doing it? And its a very lengthy process and if the offender is found to have done it out of desperation he could be let on his way so laws like that is a means to deter those from commiting the offence in the first place. I agree that a life for a life should mean just that unless it was in a form of self defence.
I agree with you mate we need strong deterrents for the types of crimes being committed in modern Britain, take for example the grooming gangs, they should be castrated in the streets. We're dealing with 3rd world crimes like gang rapes and acid attacks using 1st world deterrents and it's clearly not working. These types of crimes will only increase as Britain continues to turn into a 3rd world country.
It's interesting that you bring up Saudi style of punishments, i have read that they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world so obviously it does work. My only issue with that is if the law will apply equally to everyone, as the Royal princes over there can get away with anything. This is the same in most countries, one law for the masses and another for elite deviants.
I agree with you mate we need strong deterrents for the types of crimes being committed in modern Britain, take for example the grooming gangs, they should be castrated in the streets. We're dealing with 3rd world crimes like gang rapes and acid attacks using 1st world deterrents and it's clearly not working. These types of crimes will only increase as Britain continues to turn into a 3rd world country.
It's interesting that you bring up Saudi style of punishments, i have read that they have one of the lowest crime rates in the world so obviously it does work. My only issue with that is if the law will apply equally to everyone, as the Royal princes over there can get away with anything. This is the same in most countries, one law for the masses and another for elite deviants.
I totally agree with you and we see the example of ruling elites around the globe taking advantage of the masses and Saudi is no exception in fact I would go further and say its becoming a dictatorship there which is rife with greed and hypocrisy but we must call a spade a spade and state the facts when it comes to statistics and you are right again Saudi Arabia does have one the lowest crime rates in World on all different aspects of crime and I believe its down to the deterrents they have in place. Just look at the thousands of loopholes in our justice system which are exploited everyday by the higher ups but yet when the public catch on and begin to use the same loopholes they are either banged up, heavily fines or that very law is reviewed and altered so one loophole is closed yet another one opened so is the law really there to protect us or them.
I'm sorry but are people genuinely saying that Saudi Arabia, a nation that has implemented the religious nuttery that is Sharia law, have a good record with crime?
Yeah, I guess that's quite an easy thing to do when you cut people's feet off for stealing bread or stone women to death for adultery.
Jesus Christ. :roflmao:
MyNameIsTerry
19-08-17, 23:58
Didn't Saudi Arabia execute one of it's princes not long ago?
I'm sorry but are people genuinely saying that Saudi Arabia, a nation that has implemented the religious nuttery that is Sharia law, have a good record with crime?
Yeah, I guess that's quite an easy thing to do when you cut people's feet off for stealing bread or stone women to death for adultery.
Jesus Christ. :roflmao:
Oh god here we go I sense an argument brewing nobody is agreeing with what Saudi Arabia has implemented or not we are discussing differant ways of deterring offenders away from crime so it highly unfair for you to just come along and start ranting.
Oh btw what happens to the man who is caught for adultery? And didn't the person you mentioned also implement the same laws in the bible? where on earth did you get your information from?
---------- Post added at 00:06 ---------- Previous post was at 00:04 ----------
Didn't Saudi Arabia execute one of it's princes not long ago?
I'm pretty sure they did in 2016 over a shooting murder.
MyNameIsTerry
20-08-17, 00:50
So what is your view on say Americas 3 strike rule whereas the third strike no matter how petty the crime would see the offender doing time for quite a few years maybe we should adopt the same system as a way to deter those reoffenders and I even mentioned Saudi Arabia's law for theft for instance okay the law says it could mean the offender loses a hand but not many people realise it must go through a judicial system first in where the offence has to be reviewed entirely and why did the offender commit the theft was the offender poor or rich? was it due to extreme poverty? Was the offender forced into doing it? And its a very lengthy process and if the offender is found to have done it out of desperation he could be let on his way so laws like that is a means to deter those from commiting the offence in the first place. I agree that a life for a life should mean just that unless it was in a form of self defence.
As for the guy who was sliwly poisoned things like that should never be tolerated in any justice system that's disgusting thing to do what was the outcome for the person who did it?
I can't see an issue with slapping a bigger sentence on a repeat offender, they take their chances. Some to the left will argue some areas of society are given no hope as they grow up in areas where they have few chances but the victim didn't get one either. So, taking in consideration previous offences is no issue to me if they want to add some years but I don't mean a lot of years.
I wouldn't want to see justice Saudi style, I think that's too extreme. On a personal level if someone robbed from me I would like the option to take my own justice out on them by way of breaking some bones BUT we can't run a society like that as it will go very wrong very quickly.
If we had SA penalities I think most of our politicians would be waving one hand around in Parliament. :roflmao:
It would be nice to see the Lords removed for crimes like Lord Pig Farmer who continued to scam the system even after coming out of prison for the same offence.
It would also be nice to see the move from different cat prisons, as Ryan explained, applied to white collar rich types. For instance, the Huhnes who got an easy quick time and then a transfer.
---------- Post added at 00:50 ---------- Previous post was at 00:47 ----------
There's a documentary you can see on You Tube called the Glasshouse about MCTC Colchester and what it is like there. It's from maybe 10 years before i was there but it was pretty much the same for us (apart from the haircuts which looked mad and wouldn't be allowed when I was there).
That takes me back, I remember watching it on TV!
I think we have the same argument when people say national service should be brought back. It would be the making of some but it doesn't matter how much someone in a uniform shouts at some, they will just laugh in their faces as they do the police. Aside from physical punishement, their type can't easily be got through too as they only understand someone worse than them.
I never did watch the series about the Borstals but I can just imagine how much of a failure it was and that is because its just a series that's not taken seriously enough the problem with the youth today is that they have become quite lazy and that is mainly do to the times we live in with all the technological advances around us thats supposed to make our lives easier is in fact making us lazier in many ways for for example God forbid we were hit with a huge natural disaster where we had to rely on ourselves for survival how many people out there know how to grow a simple tomato? Or start a fire? Or even something simple as collecting rain water?
So its no wonder the young lads couldnt hack it on the series its simply down to them not being able to handle situations that's taken em out of that comfort zone.
As for your second point about human right groups being on it like a dog with a bone I wonder if they would have the same reaction if it was on the other foot and it was they who had a loved one raped or murdered touch wood it doesn't.
---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 15:03 ----------
So what is your view on say Americas 3 strike rule whereas the third strike no matter how petty the crime would see the offender doing time for quite a few years maybe we should adopt the same system as a way to deter those reoffenders and I even mentioned Saudi Arabia's law for theft for instance okay the law says it could mean the offender loses a hand but not many people realise it must go through a judicial system first in where the offence has to be reviewed entirely and why did the offender commit the theft was the offender poor or rich? was it due to extreme poverty? Was the offender forced into doing it? And its a very lengthy process and if the offender is found to have done it out of desperation he could be let on his way so laws like that is a means to deter those from commiting the offence in the first place. I agree that a life for a life should mean just that unless it was in a form of self defence.
As for the guy who was slowly poisoned things like that should never be tolerated in any justice system that's disgusting thing to do what was the outcome for the person who did it? Saf it was a failure from the start the governor was joke tbh with you and if some one couldn't hack it they could leave the borstal that wouldn't have happened back in the day it was very tame on the last day the governor did man up shame he didn't do that from day one think it had some thing to do with human rights ahh. How ever it was little strict but by no means tough enough IMHO. Cheers
---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 ----------
Yeah I got 3 years but kept out of trouble in there and got out after 18 months for good behaviour and then was on license for the other 18 months. I started off in a Cat B prison (Manchester/Strangeways) and it took me a while to get approved for Cat C because of what I was in for - GBH. Got transferred to Risley which is Cat C and training prison.
Everybody starts off on standard regime but you can get changed to enhanced or even super enhanced after a certain ammount of time and you get more privileges. You can also get reduced to basic where you lose privileges.
Yeah I mostly enjoyed my time in the Army. It was always what I wanted to do as a kid. I had a couple of nights in the Guardroom cells for minor things but only did one sentence at the army jail (MCTC Colchester).
I had been warned that I would end up there and had heard stories about how bad it was so I knew what to expect. It was likebeing back in basic training again only worse. It's divided in two - one unit for those soldiering on like me and another unit for those getting kicked out.
For us it was getting up first thing - PT, drill, marches, inspections and army training with other courses to do as well. The staff were very strict and you were kept busy all day long. When we were going anywhere we had to march at double speed (Trot) and got punished for doing anything wrong. You did have some free time in the evening but that was mainly spent getting your uniform and kit ready for inspection. I always felt wrecked by the evening and just wanted to go to bed. There was plenty of getting shouted at and menial labour as you say. We had no TVs (DVD at the weekend) and everything was a privilege you had to earn - even being allowed to smoke. It was tough and I remember when I was in prison thinking how would some of the lads in there cope with that. In MCTC nearly everybody accepted the way it was and there was very little trouble or people kicking off but that wouldn't be tolerated. Looking back on it I left there as a much better and fitter soldier and got back to my unit and contiued on as a soldier for a couple of years.
There's a documentary you can see on You Tube called the Glasshouse about MCTC Colchester and what it is like there. It's from maybe 10 years before i was there but it was pretty much the same for us (apart from the haircuts which looked mad and wouldn't be allowed when I was there). So if some one is well behaved do you believe it's right to be let out in the half the time? No disrespect to you Ryan but actually don't think so think years ago it used be a 1/3 rd off now it's half. Did you respect the way the Army did things mate? Were you ever shouted at or had your kit chucked of the bed and told to do it again?. A really good series was shown think they did a couple of series Bad Lad's Army it was excellent viewing think ITV should commission another series seem very true to life in many ways :) but think it was axed because of the rough treatment some of the recruits got. Cheers
---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 ----------
I'm sorry but are people genuinely saying that Saudi Arabia, a nation that has implemented the religious nuttery that is Sharia law, have a good record with crime?
Yeah, I guess that's quite an easy thing to do when you cut people's feet off for stealing bread or stone women to death for adultery.
Jesus Christ. :roflmao:Think they are tougher on crime for sure. TBH though it's quite a detterent isn't it and doubt you would steal again if you stole a loaf of bread! Not saying the Uk should go that far, but am saying it's quite lax the uk is it's gone to far the other way now. Hanging too should be brought back for certain crimes when their is no doubt that that person was involved it's cheap, quick and finished in seconds Don't think it will ever come back though. Cheers
Can anyone remember when David Cameron pushed for that hug a hoodie campaign to make the youth feel more loved so that they eventually have a change of heart to commit a crime I wonder how many hoodies he's hugged so far. Terry made a valid suggestion about changing the law so that the victim could seek revenge on a offender however I believe it will someday happen as people become more and more frustrated with the softness of the law people will take the law onto themselves to seek justice.
Can anyone remember when David Cameron pushed for that hug a hoodie campaign to make the youth feel more loved so that they eventually have a change of heart to commit a crime I wonder how many hoodies he's hugged so far. Terry made a valid suggestion about changing the law so that the victim could seek revenge on a offender however I believe it will someday happen as people become more and more frustrated with the softness of the law people will take the law onto themselves to seek justice. Yeah I can Saf I mean come on what's that all about?? Well I know what it's about but doesn't make sense to me. And that's the other thing if I was victim of crime I wouldn't want to talk to the offender again ever but there are schemes like this today. Does make me wonder at times Ahh Cheers
Can anyone remember when David Cameron pushed for that hug a hoodie campaign to make the youth feel more loved so that they eventually have a change of heart to commit a crime I wonder how many hoodies he's hugged so far.
Yeah, i remember that campaign.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/19/article-2132079-066493CB0000044D-358_468x341.jpg
Yeah, i remember that campaign.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/19/article-2132079-066493CB0000044D-358_468x341.jpg Yeah the pic is priceless can you see the look on Cameron's face lol
As if to say heck what have done! Cheers
Yeah, i remember that campaign.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/19/article-2132079-066493CB0000044D-358_468x341.jpg
Lol Cameron looks rather upset I wonder if it was because the young prospect rejected Camerons offer for a nice heart warming embrace. The kids like "Yo Cameron come hug these"
Lol Cameron looks rather upset I wonder if it was because the young prospect rejected Camerons offer for a nice heart warming embrace. The kids like "Yo Cameron come hug these" Or could it be where the young prospects hand is lol:whistles: CHeers
MyNameIsTerry
20-08-17, 16:16
I think he's just shouted "eff the pigs" and Cameron misinterpreted the meaning and thought it was a slur on him...:whistles:
---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------
I misheard Cameron's message. On the bright side though I was up 6 wallets, 4 watches and a few bags of weed from mugging them. :yesyes:
I think he's just shouted "eff the pigs" and Cameron misinterpreted the meaning and thought it was a slur on him...:whistles:
---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------
I misheard Cameron's message. On the bright side though I was up 6 wallets, 4 watches and a few bags of weed from mugging them. :yesyes:
And the latest copy of modern warfare for the Xbox.
MyNameIsTerry
20-08-17, 16:38
And the latest copy of modern warfare for the Xbox.
I'm a Playstation man so I consoled myself by giving him a good kicking whilst filming it on my phone. :yesyes:
Lol steady on wasnt this whole thread about how to reduce crime? And I must admit I admire your chioce in what game console you play I love my ps4 I was once given the first Xbox for free by my brother and I played it for a week and gave it in to a charity shop and got my self a ps2. What game you playing at the moment if you dont mind me asking?
Lol steady on wasnt this whole thread about how to reduce crime? And I must admit I admire your chioce in what game console you play I love my ps4 I was once given the first Xbox for free by my brother and I played it for a week and gave it in to a charity shop and got my self a ps2. What game you playing at the moment if you dont mind me asking?
Another PS4 loyalist here never owned an XBOX, currently playing Uncharted 4.
Lol steady on wasnt this whole thread about how to reduce crime? And I must admit I admire your chioce in what game console you play I love my ps4 I was once given the first Xbox for free by my brother and I played it for a week and gave it in to a charity shop and got my self a ps2. What game you playing at the moment if you dont mind me asking? LOL Eh Yeah it was ,taking over my thread the Delete Button is close to, you know :roflmao: Ha ha only joking folks. Terry your console joke is so cheesy lol where do you pick them up from :whistles: any way as you were folks Cheers
Another PS4 loyalist here never owned an XBOX, currently playing Uncharted 4.
Very good game with good ol Nathan and sully I'm almost done with a game called Yakuza 0 which I would highly recommend in fact its very close to knocking the witcher 3 of my all time best game played.
---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------
LOL Eh Yeah it was taking over my thread the Delete Button is close to you know :roflmao: Ha ha only joking folks. Terry you console joke is so cheesy lol where do you pick them up from :whistles: Cheers
You leave that delete button alone Dave Orrrrrr are you an Xbox player? Just messing its a little diversion I agree.
Very good game with good ol Nathan and sully I'm almost done with a game called Yakuza 0 which I would highly recommend in fact its very close to knocking the witcher 3 of my all time best game played.
---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------
You leave that delete button alone Dave Orrrrrr are you an Xbox player? Just messing its a little diversion I agree. Ha ha Iam in control on my thread lmfao:yesyes: Nah had a Wii a few years back and before that had a Coleco Vision console have you or any one else heard of them liked the retro games on that one Currently don't have a console though! Any way a small diversion is fine lol Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
20-08-17, 20:50
Dave & saf who asked about the anti freeze case;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1580205/30-years-in-jail-for-anti-freeze-poisoning-wife.html
Mr Knight was in a coma for 10 weeks and is registered blind as a result of the poisoning. He is also profoundly deaf, has no kidney function and some paralysis of his facial muscles. He is currently awaiting consideration for a kidney transplant from his brother, the court heard.
She got 30 years.
---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:46 ----------
Lol steady on wasnt this whole thread about how to reduce crime? And I must admit I admire your chioce in what game console you play I love my ps4 I was once given the first Xbox for free by my brother and I played it for a week and gave it in to a charity shop and got my self a ps2. What game you playing at the moment if you dont mind me asking?
Another PS4 loyalist here never owned an XBOX, currently playing Uncharted 4.
:D
I've only played Gears Of War on the old xbox once and saw how behind the PS3 it was compared to something like COD. The new one doen't go as far into next gen as the PS4 so it won't be as good and the PS4 really is a step up as you see from the graphics straight away.
I'm currently working my way through Lego games. Just finished Marvel Avengers so now onto Batman 3. Then it will be The Hobbit and the Star Wars game. I've played the older ones on the PS3 and they are funny.
Got loads to work through. I've not been playing for a while as I find it hard with my GAD & OCD which has focussed on daily routine since the relapse so I have periods where I do play or don't.
Ha ha Iam in control on my thread lmfao:yesyes: Nah had a Wii a few years back and before that had a Coleco Vision console have you or any one else heard of them liked the retro games on that one Currently don't have a console though! Any way a small diversion is fine lol Cheers
You are definately in charge of the thread and I have never heard of coleco vision I had to take a quick lesson from Google about it and it seems that coleco vision was pretty popular back in the days I have to admit though the old retro games were more enjoyable to play whereas today game makers tend to focus more on graphics in favour of gameplay.
---------- Post added at 23:33 ---------- Previous post was at 23:28 ----------
Dave & saf who asked about the anti freeze case;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1580205/30-years-in-jail-for-anti-freeze-poisoning-wife.html
[I]Mr Knight was in a coma for 10 weeks and is registered blind as a result of the poisoning. He is also profoundly deaf, has no kidney function and some paralysis of his facial muscles. He is currently awaiting consideration for a kidney transplant from his brother, the court heard.
Oh my that is crazy what a horrid human being they should have done the same to her or locked her up and threw away the key and just to think in 3 more years she'll be free to live her life yet the poor guy has to suffer forever in his own personal prison without any release date all for absolutely nothing. Grrrr
MyNameIsTerry
21-08-17, 01:13
Oh my that is crazy what a horrid human being they should have done the same to her or locked her up and threw away the key and just to think in 3 more years she'll be free to live her life yet the poor guy has to suffer forever in his own personal prison without any release date all for absolutely nothing. Grrrr
It's stuff like this that makes you think of lopping bits off people. Acid attacks are another good example. A life sentence for the victim, some uncomfortable years in prison for the attacker.
The trouble with lopping off bits though is then we will chuck money at prosthetics for them and they will be claiming they need benefits and so sooner or later the media latches onto the cost again...same issue with sterner sentences, more money = less NHS.
It's stuff like this that makes you think of lopping bits off people. Acid attacks are another good example. A life sentence for the victim, some uncomfortable years in prison for the attacker.
The trouble with lopping off bits though is then we will chuck money at prosthetics for them and they will be claiming they need benefits and so sooner or later the media latches onto the cost again...same issue with sterner sentences, more money = less NHS.
Gordon Bennett Terry your evolution for adjusting the legal system has gone from longer sentences to giving chavs a good ol kicking in to lopping bits of people LMAO and the ironic part is you might actually be onto something there :yahoo: and don't even get me started on the rise of acid attacks what a sick way to permanently disfigure someone what ever happened to the days when people would duke it out with a classic fist fight and than shake hands afterwards? And with the way things are heading I guarantee we will see an increase in public lynching just like those 3rd world countries that recognise the government and laws to be corrupted as hell so they take it upon themselves to bring true justice about.
MyNameIsTerry
21-08-17, 06:30
:roflmao: It does sound extreme but it's how you feel sometimes when you read about crimes. When you know idiots who don't care about the law you know you can't win and the police just become useless.
Hah! These days you end up with all their mates and even the GF jumping on you.
If we are going for lynching then I would suggest a very small noose...it won't be for the neck :winks:
Police State Britain!
CPS to crack down on social media hate crime, says Alison Saunders
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/21/cps-to-crack-down-on-social-media-hate-says-alison-saunders
Prosecutors will be ordered to treat online hate crime as seriously as offences carried out face to face in plans announced by the director of public prosecutions.
Also note this is the same woman Barrister that decided not to prosecute notorious paedophile Grenville Jenner because of his "ill health". Further proof that Britain has been hijacked by fifth columnists and is being destroyed from within.
Dave & saf who asked about the anti freeze case;
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1580205/30-years-in-jail-for-anti-freeze-poisoning-wife.html
Mr Knight was in a coma for 10 weeks and is registered blind as a result of the poisoning. He is also profoundly deaf, has no kidney function and some paralysis of his facial muscles. He is currently awaiting consideration for a kidney transplant from his brother, the court heard.
She got 30 years.
---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:46 ----------
:D
I've only played Gears Of War on the old xbox once and saw how behind the PS3 it was compared to something like COD. The new one doen't go as far into next gen as the PS4 so it won't be as good and the PS4 really is a step up as you see from the graphics straight away.
I'm currently working my way through Lego games. Just finished Marvel Avengers so now onto Batman 3. Then it will be The Hobbit and the Star Wars game. I've played the older ones on the PS3 and they are funny.
Got loads to work through. I've not been playing for a while as I find it hard with my GAD & OCD which has focussed on daily routine since the relapse so I have periods where I do play or don't. What a horrendous story Terry Even if he had died as a result of the monster's actions she would have served a minimum of 30 years still not enough in my book her husband is now disfigured for life and very much so his life is ruined so while some say the judge pushed the boat out it wasn't pushed out enough Now the tax payer will foot the bill for her keep in jail sorry but she should have no tv or any priviliges atall but she will be treated just like any other inmate makes me sick step in the right direction maybe, but not enough. Thanks for the link Terry :) Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
21-08-17, 12:01
Police State Britain!
CPS to crack down on social media hate crime, says Alison Saunders
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/21/cps-to-crack-down-on-social-media-hate-says-alison-saunders
Prosecutors will be ordered to treat online hate crime as seriously as offences carried out face to face in plans announced by the director of public prosecutions.
Also note this is the same woman Barrister that decided not to prosecute notorious paedophile Grenville Jenner because of his "ill health". Further proof that Britain has been hijacked by fifth columnists and is being destroyed from within.
Oh well, it will still be ok to hate old people so the Brexit hard Remainers will have something to hang onto.
Good job Labour didn't get in then or perhaps Chakrabarti would wave a magic wand and antisemitism would no longer exist. :winks:
Police State Britain!
CPS to crack down on social media hate crime, says Alison Saunders
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/21/cps-to-crack-down-on-social-media-hate-says-alison-saunders
Prosecutors will be ordered to treat online hate crime as seriously as offences carried out face to face in plans announced by the director of public prosecutions.
Also note this is the same woman Barrister that decided not to prosecute notorious paedophile Grenville Jenner because of his "ill health". Further proof that Britain has been hijacked by fifth columnists and is being destroyed from within. To me Hollow it sends mixed messages to me on one hand she is saying Hate Crime must be harshly treated but compassion must be shown cause a'notorious' pedo is ill gets off scot free again this is sending the wrong message out to criminals, very strange to me Thanks Hollow :) Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
21-08-17, 12:25
Oh well, it will still be ok to hate old people so the Brexit hard Remainers will have something to hang onto.
Good job Labour didn't get in then or perhaps Chakrabarti would wave a magic wand and antisemitism would no longer exist. :winks:
They missed off xenophobia. Why? Given all the squawking over increases due to Brexit and the actual crimes committed you would have expected to see this too?
So, they use Charlottesville as am example of hatred yet fail to respond to a rise in anti European hatred despite the high profile over the last year.
Seems like a badly devised policy to me. Online hatred should be tackled as the internet is used by both sides of the political spectrum to abuse others but it already is in terms of things like racism. They can already uplift sentencing due to this being categorised a hate crime. Seems more like the CPS playing catch up to me.
So if some one is well behaved do you believe it's right to be let out in the half the time? No disrespect to you Ryan but actually don't think so think years ago it used be a 1/3 rd off now it's half. Did you respect the way the Army did things mate? Were you ever shouted at or had your kit chucked of the bed and told to do it again?. A really good series was shown think they did a couple of series Bad Lad's Army it was excellent viewing think ITV should commission another series seem very true to life in many ways :) but think it was axed because of the rough treatment some of the recruits got. Cheers
I get that people hate the fact that prisoners seem to get off easy by only serving half their sentence in prison and the rest on license but that's the system. Plenty of people do get recalled from license if they get arrested again. From having been in prison I think if you do behave and do your courses you should get a shorter sentence - nobody whose been in prison would want that to change but I know people won't agree with that. I dd 18 months of the 3 years I got and can tell you it was long enough for me - 3 years would have been much worse for me.
Maybe it should be less remission if it's your second time or third time or whatever but people get longer sentences if they have previous for the same so maybe that covers that.
There is time off for good behaviour from army jail as well - I think it is just 25% though and you can lose that remission much easier in Army jail.
Not sure if I'd say that I respected the way the Army did things buy had a good idea what to expect. The thing with the Army is that they don't tolerate any crap or messing around. You just had to do what they said and get on with it. You would definitely come off worse if you didn't.
Getting shouted at and getting my kit thrown back at you and having to do it again happened me all the time - every day for the first few weeks but a bit less as the time went on. Like I said before similar in ways to basic training. They could find dust and dirt anywhere and creases were never good enough. That's why the small bit of free time you had you would spend working on your uniform and kit. You learnt not to react to them or you'd be doing press up or extra work. I remember thinking I would like to punch the lights out of some of the staff but of course never did. The one thing I realised it did was to make us all doing time there come together and work together and have common shit feelings - made us realise we were all in the same boat and had to work together. It was not personal either - everybody got a hard time of it whether you were a teenager like me or some of the older lads who had been in the army years or were Corporals or Sgts.
I remember seeing that series Bad Lads Army when I was growing up. Any of those programmes can never be real as people can just walk off if things get too tough and you can't do that in prison.
That case is horriffic about the poisoning but that is a really long sentence. Most prisoners probably would want people like that to get serious time and have a rough time in prison. And I agree that if anybody did anything to hurt my girlfriend or son I would want them to suffer but that's only natural.
I get that people hate the fact that prisoners seem to get off easy by only serving half their sentence in prison and the rest on license but that's the system. Plenty of people do get recalled from license if they get arrested again. From having been in prison I think if you do behave and do your courses you should get a shorter sentence - nobody whose been in prison would want that to change but I know people won't agree with that. I dd 18 months of the 3 years I got and can tell you it was long enough for me - 3 years would have been much worse for me.
Maybe it should be less remission if it's your second time or third time or whatever but people get longer sentences if they have previous for the same so maybe that covers that.
There is time off for good behaviour from army jail as well - I think it is just 25% though and you can lose that remission much easier in Army jail.
Not sure if I'd say that I respected the way the Army did things buy had a good idea what to expect. The thing with the Army is that they don't tolerate any crap or messing around. You just had to do what they said and get on with it. You would definitely come off worse if you didn't.
Getting shouted at and getting my kit thrown back at you and having to do it again happened me all the time - every day for the first few weeks but a bit less as the time went on. Like I said before similar in ways to basic training. They could find dust and dirt anywhere and creases were never good enough. That's why the small bit of free time you had you would spend working on your uniform and kit. You learnt not to react to them or you'd be doing press up or extra work. I remember thinking I would like to punch the lights out of some of the staff but of course never did. The one thing I realised it did was to make us all doing time there come together and work together and have common shit feelings - made us realise we were all in the same boat and had to work together. It was not personal either - everybody got a hard time of it whether you were a teenager like me or some of the older lads who had been in the army years or were Corporals or Sgts.
I remember seeing that series Bad Lads Army when I was growing up. Any of those programmes can never be real as people can just walk off if things get too tough and you can't do that in prison.
That case is horriffic about the poisoning but that is a really long sentence. Most prisoners probably would want people like that to get serious time and have a rough time in prison. And I agree that if anybody did anything to hurt my girlfriend or son I would want them to suffer but that's only natural. Yeah you even said 18 months was enough for you and the full sentence would have been worse for you! Many regular offenders would easily sail through a 3 year stretch LOL Why cause they use the system to their advantage and can survive in side! So you are saying that every one that is released early goes on licence? If it does, it never used to be like that only certain crimes or probation orders would mean that?
Yeah or no remission ;) needs to be much more of a deterent and for very serious crimes like that poisoning of that poor man they should be NO time off absolutely NOT no effin chance :mad: Actually one or 2 Guys on the series actually tried to escape and were marched back to the camp as it should be mate. Thanks for your comments Ryan :) Cheers
---------- Post added at 15:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------
They missed off xenophobia. Why? Given all the squawking over increases due to Brexit and the actual crimes committed you would have expected to see this too?
So, they use Charlottesville as am example of hatred yet fail to respond to a rise in anti European hatred despite the high profile over the last year.
Seems like a badly devised policy to me. Online hatred should be tackled as the internet is used by both sides of the political spectrum to abuse others but it already is in terms of things like racism. They can already uplift sentencing due to this being categorised a hate crime. Seems more like the CPS playing catch up to me. Terry it's all about Free speech I guess and the authorities DO have their hands tied regarding what is and what isn't acceptable I also believe the likes of FB and Twitter should be doing more perhaps a Zero tolerance is the way forward on this it's worked for other things so yes think it would go a long way to tackling this huge out of control problem :) Cheers
Yeah you even said 18 months was enough for you and the full sentence would have been worse for you! Many regular offenders would easily sail through a 3 year stretch LOL Why cause they use the system to their advantage and can survive in side! So you are saying that every one that is released early goes on licence? If it does, it never used to be like that only certain crimes or probation orders would mean that?
Yeah or no remission ;) needs to be much more of a deterent and for very serious crimes like that poisoning of that poor man they should be NO time off absolutely NOT no effin chance :mad: Actually one or 2 Guys on the series actually tried to escape and were marched back to the camp as it should be mate. Thanks for your comments Ryan :) Cheers
You have to survive inside but that doesn't mean it's easy.
Everybody is on license when they get out early in that you are still technically serving your sentence so and can be recalled to prison if you do get arrested again for something or if they know you are in breach of your license you can end up back inside. I got paperwork to sign agreeing to it. Just looked it up and have copied out what t says online about it:
There are seven standard licence conditions for prisoners serving determinate sentences
(a) be of good behaviour and not behave in a way which undermines the purpose of the licence period
(b) not commit any offence
(c) keep in touch with the supervising officer in accordance with instructions given by the supervising officer
(d) receive visits from the supervising officer in accordance with instructions given by the supervising officer
(e) reside permanently at an address approved by the supervising officer and obtain the prior permission of the supervising officer for any stay of one or more nights at a different address
(f) not undertake work, or a particular type of work, unless it is approved by the supervising officer and notify the supervising officer in advance of any proposal to undertake work or a particular type of work
(g) not travel outside the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man except with the prior permission of your supervising officer or for the purposes of immigration deportation or removal.
(Source: Ministry of Justice – PSI 12/2015)
Extra conditions may also be imposed under one of the following categories:
(1) residence at a specified place
(2) restriction of residency
(3) making or maintaining contact with a person
(4) participation in, or co-operation with, a programme or set of activities
(5) possession, ownership, control or inspection of specified items or documents
(6) disclosure of information
(7) curfew arrangement
(8) freedom of movement
(9) supervision in the community by the supervising officer, or other responsible officer, or organisation
If there was no remission at all things would be much worse in prison for screws as well as prisoners. Everybody wants to get out and for most people (not all - I know there are some but not as many as you think who don't care) knowing you could lose some remission is a pretty big incentive to stay out of serious trouble. I think every prison system including the Army's has remission because of that. But I agree maybe it should be a smaller part of the sentence for really serious crimes.
On the Bad Lads Army thing I don't remember them forcing lads who wanted to leave back. Could they really do that? It was only TV after all and not like a real prison sentence but it's a long time ago since I saw it so maybe I'm wrong.
MyNameIsTerry
22-08-17, 04:12
Everybody is on license when they get out early in that you are still technically serving your sentence so and can be recalled to prison if you do get arrested again for something or if they know you are in breach of your license you can end up back inside. I got paperwork to sign agreeing to it. Just looked it up and have copied out what t says online about it:
The trouble is, that's after we have another victim.
It might be hard on PO's if remission were less but to be honest, that's less of a concern than to ensure their has been justice for the victim. The question is more whether it leads to rehabilitation rates being higher.
---------- Post added at 04:12 ---------- Previous post was at 04:11 ----------
On the Bad Lads Army thing I don't remember them forcing lads who wanted to leave back. Could they really do that? It was only TV after all and not like a real prison sentence but it's a long time ago since I saw it so maybe I'm wrong.
I doubt that would even be legal.
You have to survive inside but that doesn't mean it's easy.
Everybody is on license when they get out early in that you are still technically serving your sentence so and can be recalled to prison if you do get arrested again for something or if they know you are in breach of your license you can end up back inside. I got paperwork to sign agreeing to it. Just looked it up and have copied out what t says online about it:
There are seven standard licence conditions for prisoners serving determinate sentences
(a) be of good behaviour and not behave in a way which undermines the purpose of the licence period
(b) not commit any offence
(c) keep in touch with the supervising officer in accordance with instructions given by the supervising officer
(d) receive visits from the supervising officer in accordance with instructions given by the supervising officer
(e) reside permanently at an address approved by the supervising officer and obtain the prior permission of the supervising officer for any stay of one or more nights at a different address
(f) not undertake work, or a particular type of work, unless it is approved by the supervising officer and notify the supervising officer in advance of any proposal to undertake work or a particular type of work
(g) not travel outside the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands or the Isle of Man except with the prior permission of your supervising officer or for the purposes of immigration deportation or removal.
(Source: Ministry of Justice – PSI 12/2015)
Extra conditions may also be imposed under one of the following categories:
(1) residence at a specified place
(2) restriction of residency
(3) making or maintaining contact with a person
(4) participation in, or co-operation with, a programme or set of activities
(5) possession, ownership, control or inspection of specified items or documents
(6) disclosure of information
(7) curfew arrangement
(8) freedom of movement
(9) supervision in the community by the supervising officer, or other responsible officer, or organisation
If there was no remission at all things would be much worse in prison for screws as well as prisoners. Everybody wants to get out and for most people (not all - I know there are some but not as many as you think who don't care) knowing you could lose some remission is a pretty big incentive to stay out of serious trouble. I think every prison system including the Army's has remission because of that. But I agree maybe it should be a smaller part of the sentence for really serious crimes.
On the Bad Lads Army thing I don't remember them forcing lads who wanted to leave back. Could they really do that? It was only TV after all and not like a real prison sentence but it's a long time ago since I saw it so maybe I'm wrong. Hi Ryan that's interesting so ok are you saying I say commit a crime not serious and go to prison for 6 months (actually get out in 3 months) I would automatically be out on licence? I thought 1. It depends on the crime and 2. On the actual sentence imposed before you are on licence if everyone was on licence the system would be overloaded!
Yeah I am pretty sure on bad lads army some guys did try and walk out, only to be brought back to camp it was much better to watch than that joke of a programme on Bring Back Borstals. Think only 2 series was made (more the pity it was well worth watching it) it's got to be over 10 years ago now I would have thought mate :) I guess it's difficult to understand ALL view points on this debate. Even what you have said still convinces me it should be much harder just to send the message home to even first timers inside that it's not worth commiting a crime. So any one what (measures) would keep some people out of prison in your honest opinion? Cheers
Hi Ryan that's interesting so ok are you saying I say commit a crime not serious and go to prison for 6 months (actually get out in 3 months) I would automatically be out on licence? I thought 1. It depends on the crime and 2. On the actual sentence imposed before you are on licence if everyone was on licence the system would be overloaded!
Yeah I am pretty sure on bad lads army some guys did try and walk out, only to be brought back to camp it was much better to watch than that joke of a programme on Bring Back Borstals. Think only 2 series was made (more the pity it was well worth watching it) it's got to be over 10 years ago now I would have thought mate :) I guess it's difficult to understand ALL view points on this debate. Even what you have said still convinces me it should be much harder just to send the message home to even first timers inside that it's not worth commiting a crime. So any one what (measures) would keep some people out of prison in your honest opinion? Cheers
Yes everybody that gets released early goes on license for the rest of their sentence. But you are right too that it depends on what offence and the sentence what happens when you are on license. So in the example you gave if you got 6 months and got released after 3 you probably wouldn't even have to see a probation officer. I am guessing if you were in for a sex crime you would be monitored a lot. For me in the first year I had to go and see my Probation Officer but they were only quick meetings and that was it. After a year out I did get arrested again for something minor and then I had to go and see my Probation Officer a few days later and told I was at risk of getting recalled and it was more strict for the last few months.
I looked it up and Bad Lads Army was on 2002-2006 so we were both right. Like Terry said i don't think it would be legal to make someone stay on a TV programme.
I'm probably the last person to ask about how to keep people out of prison since I didn't keep myself out of prison but you might be shocked that I agree with you in some ways. I just don't agree that prison is as easy as some people make out.
When I got out of the Army I think I missed Army life and started getting into trouble mainly minor stuff and was in court a few times. I got fines and then community payback - and that didn't really bother me apart from having to wear the orange bibs with Community Payback on them. I didn't really think about the consequences of what could happen when I did what I did until it was too late.
For me if I had got tagged and a curfew earlier on I might have copped on and done something to change things earlier. That would have been hard on me not going out and not getting drunk but I would still have had a semi normal life and kept my job.
I'm not saying that I would have wanted this but it would probably work better if they sent you away for like 2 weeks to an army style prison and you then got out with a suspended sentence and conditions that you know you have to keep or you serve the full term. The first 2 weeks are the worse in prison - you start to get used to it after that so the first while in there has the biggest impact.
Another thing that might work is getting people to meet the victims if the victims want to. As part of the anger management course I had to do in prison our group had to meet with 3 victims of similar crime. We had to listen to what they said and hear the impact of what happened to them. I can tell you that was something most of us found hard - it's strange seeing lads who think they are tough and mouthy not being able to say anything. It would have been much tougher if it had have been our own victims if you know what I mean.
The biggest thing for me and I would say alot of other lads is actually growing up and having responsibilities and not wanting to waste your life being locked up.
Yes everybody that gets released early goes on license for the rest of their sentence. But you are right too that it depends on what offence and the sentence what happens when you are on license. So in the example you gave if you got 6 months and got released after 3 you probably wouldn't even have to see a probation officer. I am guessing if you were in for a sex crime you would be monitored a lot. For me in the first year I had to go and see my Probation Officer but they were only quick meetings and that was it. After a year out I did get arrested again for something minor and then I had to go and see my Probation Officer a few days later and told I was at risk of getting recalled and it was more strict for the last few months.
I looked it up and Bad Lads Army was on 2002-2006 so we were both right. Like Terry said i don't think it would be legal to make someone stay on a TV programme.
I'm probably the last person to ask about how to keep people out of prison since I didn't keep myself out of prison but you might be shocked that I agree with you in some ways. I just don't agree that prison is as easy as some people make out.
When I got out of the Army I think I missed Army life and started getting into trouble mainly minor stuff and was in court a few times. I got fines and then community payback - and that didn't really bother me apart from having to wear the orange bibs with Community Payback on them. I didn't really think about the consequences of what could happen when I did what I did until it was too late.
For me if I had got tagged and a curfew earlier on I might have copped on and done something to change things earlier. That would have been hard on me not going out and not getting drunk but I would still have had a semi normal life and kept my job.
I'm not saying that I would have wanted this but it would probably work better if they sent you away for like 2 weeks to an army style prison and you then got out with a suspended sentence and conditions that you know you have to keep or you serve the full term. The first 2 weeks are the worse in prison - you start to get used to it after that so the first while in there has the biggest impact.
Another thing that might work is getting people to meet the victims if the victims want to. As part of the anger management course I had to do in prison our group had to meet with 3 victims of similar crime. We had to listen to what they said and hear the impact of what happened to them. I can tell you that was something most of us found hard - it's strange seeing lads who think they are tough and mouthy not being able to say anything. It would have been much tougher if it had have been our own victims if you know what I mean.
The biggest thing for me and I would say alot of other lads is actually growing up and having responsibilities and not wanting to waste your life being locked up. Yeah that's true Ryan It also depends on what pre sentence reports are made and what offence. Sex offenders will automatically go on a register and will have certain or extra conditions added that have to be adhered to! but some shop lifter wont if you follow :) I mean it's pretty simple to go and see your probabtion officer once a week for so long, tapering off to no visits.
As for Bad Lads Army I am going to have to see if there any episodes on You Tube (hopefully the full series ) and see if I can find a particular episode! Don't think it's been aired since well if it has it hasn't been repeated much, not sure why though!
It may not have been easy mate for you, but guarantee for the regular ones that keep ending up in prison it doesn't seem to affect them in the same way as it did you.
Think that would work sending first time offenders to a army style prison may be not 2 weeks but a month certainly no longer than that but make it hard in a short period of time and think many would think there's no way I am going through that again.
Hmm maybe Iam not so sure though I wouldn't like it if I was a victim of a crime meeting some one who had violated me in some way some say it works, others wont so for me no way Iam not interested why they violated me they should have know better, no excuse what so ever in my book but that's my opinion. Again thanks for your input mate :yesyes: Cheers
MyNameIsTerry
26-08-17, 14:15
How real was Bad Lads and all that? Didn't that copper in Big Brother who married Rylan go in early in his fame chasing career?
As for having to see probation officers, any unemployed signing on has to do so every couple of weeks and face a load of questioning or ludicrously designed & managed medicals with appeals for certain ones. Hardly a big ask for a prisoner serving licence.
How real was Bad Lads and all that? Didn't that copper in Big Brother who married Rylan go in early in his fame chasing career?
As for having to see probation officers, any unemployed signing on has to do so every couple of weeks and face a load of questioning or ludicrously designed & managed medicals with appeals for certain ones. Hardly a big ask for a prisoner serving licence. Terry think it was more real than that Bring Back Borstal series well it seem that way, the borstal was too pc and too tame I only saw the governor of that man up once and it worked should have done that earlier on I think. I agree with the probation thing, it's not a big ask once a week for 30 mins or what ever it is probably less time now as they have big case loads to get through, make the figures looks good etc, etc:flowers:
Cheers
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