View Full Version : Another Terroist Attack London
Just caught the tail end of this rolling news story it happened this morning as a train was pulling in to a 'station' on the district line at about 08.30 this morning 18 injured but no injuries life threatning so far. And guess what the government are holding yet another emergency COBRA meeting the bomb was a improvised device so it could have been much worse Trump has tweeted saying basically we must take down the stuff on the internet that brings so much unrest to normal civilian life so why isn't our government now getting tough on these SN sites?? To much talk about doing it and very little action IMHO so poor London has suffered again. Cheers
Poor London indeed such a cowardly and sickening action that's taken place I wonder when the government will finally wake up and taken proper action instead of just sitting in useless meetings while sipping on coffee they need to wake up and smell the coffee because lets be honest here if all the meetings were actually working these attacks would be on a decline not on the incline. Sorry but this whole mess just grinds my chuffing gears. Probably when half of London is blown up and many of it's citizens are dead :eek: There is no excuse every single COBRA meeting is supposed to make changes I personally cant see any regarding taking action on these SN sites and dealing with the trouble makers that use them. Yes that's right there would be a decline for sure and another thing stop bailing these known terrorists back on the streets cause there is not enough evidence to keep them locked away isn't good enough they pose a huge risk to society :eek: simply diabolical behaviour from the Uk Government! May get you ass in to gear. Thanks saf for your comments Cheers
While it doesn't lessen the horror of this incident, it hasn't yet been determined this was a terrorist attack in the sense of Radical Muslim Extremest terrorism. The method was very crude compared to other proven ISIS related terror attacks.
Trump has already condemned it as such... but that's another issue...
My positive thoughts are with those injured.
Positive thoughts
MyNameIsTerry
15-09-17, 17:36
Should the media be stopped publishing stuff like this?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/isis-supporters-celebrating-parsons-green-11177391
Surely it just signals they need a new place to talk and makes it harder for the authorities?
I don't think COBRA meetings address forward strategy. They include people like the police so the spooks won't be talking in there.
The general public has no idea as to what goes on behind the scenes re internal security. I am hoping today's explosion-shocking though it was- was the work of a radicalised individual. Parsons Green tube station is a strange area to target being above ground and on the outskirts of London proper so I think something must have gone wrong thankfully with the timing device. A few more stops into London would have caused more damage.
Hopefully they will get the perpetrator asap
MyNameIsTerry
15-09-17, 18:22
The general public has no idea as to what goes on behind the scenes re internal security. I am hoping today's explosion-shocking though it was- was the work of a radicalised individual. Parsons Green tube station is a strange area to target being above ground and on the outskirts of London proper so I think something must have gone wrong thankfully with the timing device. A few more stops into London would have caused more damage.
Hopefully they will get the perpetrator asap
I agree with you. If this had been a coordinated attack ISIS would be jumping up & down declaring it to the world. This smells like a lone wolf nutjob who has been radicalised.
Given what he was carrying they should be able to track him across all the cameras they have. Whether it leads them to a cell, we shall see.
They've identified him so hopefully it won't be long before he's tracked down. Our security services are incredible and work tirelessly around the clock.
MyNameIsTerry
15-09-17, 19:46
Ye, they are. We have some of the best in the world.
I just wish they would through more money at them so they can track more on their watchlists.
While we're at it, tell Trump to get rid of his Twitter account. Seriously, the president of the worlds most powerful nation tweeted minutes after this attack calling the perpetrator a "loser"? :doh:
Deeply embarrassing. What next? A twitter poll for when to press the red button?
He seems to have an inordinate amount of time for Twitter when he could be playing golf :lac:
Did Trump let the cat out of the bag by revealing that yet another terrorist was "known" to the security services?
It's not a secret that our "intelligence" services have been supporting terrorists in Syria so was this bomber on their payroll but went "rogue" after coming back to Britain?
Did Trump let the cat out of the bag by revealing that yet another terrorist was "known" to the security services?
It's not a secret that our "intelligence" services have been supporting terrorists in Syria so was this bomber on their payroll but went "rogue" after coming back to Britain?
Known, as in under surveillance. Trust you to strap on the tinfoil hat though.
While we're at it, tell Trump to get rid of his Twitter account. Seriously, the president of the worlds most powerful nation tweeted minutes after this attack calling the perpetrator a "loser"? :doh: Well Yeah so to you then what is this person? Think Trump was being kind when he said that:whistles: Yes a improvised device but with a time installed so while crude it had some sophistication to it in some ways. Probably trying to be like ISIS but way off the mark and actually glad it didn't go off fully it would have caused much more damage hope this waste of space is caught before he strikes again :eek:
My point is that the president of the United States shouldn't be tweeting about a terrorist plot like some teenage girl.
What next? "OMG gurl those bad guys are way lame, lolz."
My point is that the president of the United States shouldn't be tweeting about a terrorist plot like some teenage girl.
What next? "OMG gurl those bad guys are way lame, lolz." Was a bit childish like really. Mind you one tweet I did like he actually said now is time time to get them off the internet now where have I heard the before ahh yes off our own prime minister who is as much use as a chocolate T pot think this will go on and on nothing will be done about cleaning up and ridding SN site of these idiots that don't seem to have a life! Cheers
A few thoughts:
There is no such thing as a "lone wolf" in the Jihad. The word was put forth a few years ago world wide to the Jihadists - kill the infidels (anyone not Muslim) anyway you can - use an F-150 if you have to...and they have.
Trump will never stop Tweeting. Why should he. He tweeted his way all the way to the White House. A direct line to the people without the biased media filtering. Sounds good to me.
My heart goes out to all the victims of this latest attack. Anyone who is willing to accept this as "the new normal" is insane. It's totally unacceptable.
During the 2016 USA Presidential election if instead of Trump saying the often misquoted - "They will let you grab them by the p@$$y" he said - "They will let you grab them by the c-word"...would he have been elected? Just a little linguistics/political question. No offense intended.
N.
There is no such thing as a "lone wolf" in the Jihad. The word was put forth a few years ago world wide to the Jihadists - kill the infidels (anyone not Muslim) anyway you can - use an F-150 if you have to...and they have.
Noone currently has the authority in the Islamic world to declare "jihad" or holy war, the last time someone had that authority was during the time of the Ottoman empire. This is why fake organisations like ISIS and others are not taken seriously by Muslims because they don't have any legitimacy according to mainstream Islam.
The Islam against the West narrative is being pushed by powers that be to prolong the fake war on terrorism in the hope that it will ultimately lead to a world war resulting in the mutual destruction of both sides.
The source of "islamic" terrorism is Wahabbism with it's headquarters in Saudi Arabia, a country that is under the direct protection of USA and NATO.
I don't differentiate between Isis/Hezbollah/Al-Qaeda/Taliban/Boko-Haram...they are Jihadists and that's it. I don't necessarily disagree with you on the money changers in Saudi Arabia. But what would happened if we bombed MECCA into oblivion? The barometer I use to tell me there is a Jihad going on is called...my own eyes.
N.
Terrorism is terrible and needs to be stopped but nuclear war which seems almost certain to break out now terrifies me 100x more. I've literally stopped planning for a week or a month in advance now.
MyNameIsTerry
16-09-17, 18:46
Surely someone as busy as Trump doesn't sit Tweeting himself? I would imagine most celebs have their team doing that for them.
We've gone from one president too afraid to speak out about these terrorists to one who is only too happy.
I think politicians use social media to provoke. They certainly seem to say things they wouldn't in traditional circles and it's caught a lot of them out over their dubious views in the UK.
I suppose it's one way they be assured the media won't twist their words to create a situation.
Trump was calling them losers as he saw it as a way to deny their hero status. Shrug them off as pathetic rather than give them notoriety. Given the press salivating over any attack, I'm not sure it works.
Surely someone as busy as Trump doesn't sit Tweeting himself? I would imagine most celebs have their team doing that for them.
We've gone from one president too afraid to speak out about these terrorists to one who is only too happy.
I think politicians use social media to provoke. They certainly seem to say things they wouldn't in traditional circles and it's caught a lot of them out over their dubious views in the UK.
I suppose it's one way they be assured the media won't twist their words to create a situation.
Trump was calling them losers as he saw it as a way to deny their hero status. Shrug them off as pathetic rather than give them notoriety. Given the press salivating over any attack, I'm not sure it works.
Terry, I have a theory that young Baron Trump is the real Tweeter In Chief:scared15:.
What do you think?
Noone currently has the authority in the Islamic world to declare "jihad" or holy war, the last time someone had that authority was during the time of the Ottoman empire. This is why fake organisations like ISIS and others are not taken seriously by Muslims because they don't have any legitimacy according to mainstream Islam.
The Islam against the West narrative is being pushed by powers that be to prolong the fake war on terrorism in the hope that it will ultimately lead to a world war resulting in the mutual destruction of both sides.
The source of "islamic" terrorism is Wahabbism with it's headquarters in Saudi Arabia, a country that is under the direct protection of USA and NATO.
You make a valid point regarding Saudi Arabia and its wahabbism roots and for those who don't quite know what wahabbism is its a certain sect of Islam founded by a man called Abdul wahab in the 1700s they held very strict and extreme views on the interpretation of the quran and unlike other sects of Islam such as Sufyism which is a very mystical and peaceful sect almost monk-like wahabbism would use a more extreme manner to spread Islam so its no wonder that countries like Syria and Iraq has a very high Muslim death rate by Isis who follow any other sect or religion and lets not forget Isis were founded and created by saudi Arabia. Even the word Jihad has been corrupted by the media over the years before 9\11 most people never even heard the word Jihad but the media would use this word to translate as holy war but it really doesn't the word or even the concept has nothing to do with war in fact the word jihad simply means to struggle or strive so if anybody strives or struggles through hardship no matter what it is For example many on here will struggle to get through anxiety problems or illness problem and that is considered as jihad or if anybody stops themselves from sinning than that is considered as jihad even staying up all night revising for a school exam is considered jihad. Many may have heard about muslims receiving 72 virgins in paradise if they die during war again that is a Shia concept which is a minority sect of its own not 1 out of a billion Sunni Muslims believes in that idea but hey its a good selling point to brainwash the youth into carrying out the most heinous of crimes. Its crazy what's going on in the world today and we are just simply not being told the whole truth of it all.
You make a valid point regarding Saudi Arabia and its wahabbism roots and for those who don't quite know what wahabbism is its a certain sect of Islam founded by a man called Abdul wahab in the 1700s they held very strict and extreme views on the interpretation of the quran and unlike other sects of Islam such as Sufyism which is a very mystical and peaceful sect almost monk-like wahabbism would use a more extreme manner to spread Islam so its no wonder that countries like Syria and Iraq has a very high Muslim death rate by Isis who follow any other sect or religion and lets not forget Isis were founded and created by saudi Arabia. Even the word Jihad has been corrupted by the media over the years before 9\11 most people never even heard the word Jihad but the media would use this word to translate as holy war but it really doesn't the word or even the concept has nothing to do with war in fact the word jihad simply means to struggle or strive so if anybody strives or struggles through hardship no matter what it is For example many on here will struggle to get through anxiety problems or illness problem and that is considered as jihad or if anybody stops themselves from sinning than that is considered as jihad even staying up all night revising for a school exam is considered jihad. Many may have heard about muslims receiving 72 virgins in paradise if they die during war again that is a Shia concept which is a minority sect of its own not 1 out of a billion Sunni Muslims believes in that idea but hey its a good selling point to brainwash the youth into carrying out the most heinous of crimes. Its crazy what's going on in the world today and we are just simply not being told the whole truth of it all.
Couldn't agree with you more. Everything is distorted, corrupted and used to divide people, leading to conflict.
Killing, or attempting to kill and maim, is murder or attempted murder - whatever "cause" or "higher power" is ascribed to it.
Couldn't agree with you more. Everything is distorted, corrupted and used to divide people, leading to conflict.
Killing, or attempting to kill and maim, is murder or attempted murder - whatever "cause" or "higher power" is ascribed to it.
Exactly we all have a right to live a peaceful life without it being cut short by anyone unfortunately though a human life today has no value to it anymore.
MyNameIsTerry
16-09-17, 21:10
Many may have heard about muslims receiving 72 virgins in paradise if they die during war again that is a Shia concept which is a minority sect of its own not 1 out of a billion Sunni Muslims believes in that idea but hey its a good selling point to brainwash the youth into carrying out the most heinous of crimes.
In the words of Frankie Boyle "72 virgins? I'd rather have 2 slaaggggssss" :D
That shows a poorly constructed religion to me. Imagine being nagged for the rest of eternity by 72 of them!!! :sofa:
When have the people ever been told anything? We are told more today than before, we have so much news and investigation going on. Go back 100 years and you did what you were told. Go back a bit further and not doing what you were told meant a likely unpleasant short future life for you.
I wonder what Admin's take would me on a "Anxiety Jihad" thread? :noangel:
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Terry, I have a theory that young Baron Trump is the real Tweeter In Chief:scared15:.
What do you think?
You could be right there, N.
If the response to Katy Perry's recent thickness on stage was "you suck and your dress is shit" then I think you're onto something :winks:
lets not forget Isis were founded and created by saudi Arabia. Even the word Jihad has been corrupted by the media over the years before 9\11 most people never even heard the word Jihad but the media would use this word to translate as holy war but it really doesn't the word or even the concept has nothing to do with war in fact the word jihad simply means to struggle or strive so if anybody strives or struggles through hardship no matter what it is
You make many great points in your post and I agree with all of them. ISIS is just another name for groups that have been around since the 80s. When people stopped being scared of the Al Qaeda brand, they invented ISIS and marketed it as being more brutal and powerful than the previous groups. There is no evidence that ISIS is a real organisation, their leader Al Baghdadi is a Mossad agent and has been pictured with the neo-con warmonger John Mccain.
CIA and others popularised terms like Jihad and holy war through their training manuals to rile up the "mujahideen" fighting the Soviets. Since then the same Wahabbist forces have been used to overthrow nationalist governments in Muslim countries. How can the USA and it's lackies claim to fight terrorism when they openly support terrorists in places like Syria.
That shows a poorly constructed religion to me. Imagine being nags for the rest of eternity
But thats my point its nowhere to be found in the mainstream religion it was made up to suit ones own belief and agenda "go blow yourself up kid its ok 72 virgins await you" say that to some raging testosterone filled guy and he'd do anything and if I was nagged by 72 wives id have to go explore the the universe for a 1-2 million years to get away "ok honey I'm off for a bit of fishing ill be back in a tick"
MyNameIsTerry
16-09-17, 21:40
But thats my point its nowhere to be found in the mainstream religion it was made up to suit ones own belief and agenda "go blow yourself up kid its ok 72 virgins await you" say that to some raging testosterone filled guy and he'd do anything and if I was nagged by 72 wives id have to go explore the the universe for a 1-2 million years to get away "ok honey I'm off for a bit of fishing ill be back in a tick"
You could argue that is the same for every religious text in existence, mainstream or otherwise. There is nothing that proves any of them are any more true than me making one up tomorrow involving going to heaven on a unicyle if you are kind to small furry creatures.
It gets changed as time moves on. It seems if such changes are enacted by someone seen as valid, like a Pope, they should mean something. In reality they mean little more than any man, woman or fish making a change.
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How can the USA and it's lackies claim to fight terrorism when they openly support terrorists in places like Syria.
There in lies naivity to me, Hollow. Do I think our forces don't commit acts themselves? Torture people? Are we some enlightened moral guardians? That would be a bit strange when we sell weapons to nutters (Erdogan, even after he started locking innocent people up who disagree with him and plotting to seize more power), support one head lopping group over another and loved Sadam & Bashar until they fell out of favour with our governments?
We've only got to look at how we love the Saudi's to know it's about money, oil, resources, etc. We are all hypocrits in some way.
Personally I think that the Muslim religion is breeding these sickos. Are we allowed to say that or are we just here to make excuses for this warped stoneaged ideology?
their leader Al Baghdadi is a Mossad agent and has been pictured with the neo-con warmonger John Mccain.
CIA and others popularised terms like Jihad and holy war through their training manuals to rile up the "mujahideen" fighting the Soviets. Since then the same Wahabbist forces have been used to overthrow nationalist governments in Muslim countries. How can the USA and it's lackies claim to fight terrorism when they openly support terrorists in places like Syria.
Al Baghdadi is a joke and a lackey no doubt about it so you have some random guy appear on Tv claiming to be the Khalif (leader) for the Islamic world yet fail to even understand how it works to appoint a Leader you simply cannot just claim to be the leader he has to be recognised by the worlds leading Islamic scholars so they could decide wether he is a worthy candidate or not than he has to go through a voting system just like we have today And importantly a Khalif is forbidden to be named after areas or places Which he is clearly named after Baghdad Iraq. So it goes to show how manipulative these people can be without even trying btw did anyone notice the £3,500 watch he was wearing must have been a nice payday.
Isnt it ironic how the mujahideen who were funded by the west whilst fighting against the Soviets had a leading figure that went by the name of Osama bin laden who also happens to be a wahabi born and bread in Saudi arabia and out of the mujahideen came a small group of students which literally translate as the Talibs (taliban)who seeked out to get revenge on mujahideen rebels for the rape and murder of a family traveling to Kandahar so as the years rolled on and they became a government figure They followed a sect called deobandi which again had major conflicts with other sects resulting in more killings smh.
MyNameIsTerry
17-09-17, 02:14
Personally I think that the Muslim religion is breeding these sickos. Are we allowed to say that or are we just here to make excuses for this warped stoneaged ideology?
Depends who you say it in front of (perhaps avoid those to the far left as they're not too good on free speech :winks:). I made a point about how different countries evolve at different speeds (and I was thinking about homosexuality, women's rights at the time and our own history of the last few hundred years) and got called a racist for it. :huh:
All religions, all political pursuasions, etc have the capacity to do this when people are manipulated by power mad nutters or zealots. But we mustn't forget that your average Muslim, and your average Christian, live by relevant teachings and use them for good.
You could scrap all religions tomorrow and we would join something else and start it all off again. The way to end it...leave the planet to non humans. We've been doing it since the first caveman saw the second and bopped him over the head for his nicer cave. :D
Personally I think that the Muslim religion is breeding these sickos. Are we allowed to say that or are we just here to make excuses for this warped stoneaged ideology?
You are entitled to your opinion but I find it strange that Islam forbids killing as well as all evil acts yet you would somehow connect the religion with these murderers I'm interested to know about this.
MyNameIsTerry
17-09-17, 02:21
Isnt it ironic how the mujahideen who were funded by the west whilst fighting against the Soviets
Every time Rambo 3 is on TV and it comes up at the end about "the gallant people of" it does make me think how times change.
That's proxy wars though, isn't it?
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You are entitled to your opinion but I find it strange that Islam forbids killing as well as all evil acts yet you would somehow connect the religion with these murderers I'm interested to know about this.
Does it? I thought it has disclaimers for when it's justified?
Like Christianity, people need protecting with soldiers and then there are the death penalties of harsher judicial systems over the years.
Slavery has existed in all religions going back far enough, hasn't it?
Every time Rambo 3 is on TV and it comes up at the end about "the gallant people of" it does make me think how times change.
That's proxy wars though, isn't it?
---------- Post added at 02:21 ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 ----------
Does it? I thought it has disclaimers for when it's justified?
Like Christianity, people need protecting with soldiers and then there are the death penalties of harsher judicial systems over the years.
Slavery has existed in all religions going back far enough, hasn't it?
Murder can never be justified no matter how hard these sickos may try in my opinion I believe most if not all mainstream religions somewhat promotes peace and harmony its only man that tends to distort the true message depending on his whims and desires. Yes I agree slavery has existed since time immemorial even we are slaves to the government today we just dont have the chains to prove it I would call it legalised slavery.
MyNameIsTerry
17-09-17, 02:53
Murder can never be justified no matter how hard these sickos may try in my opinion I believe most if not all mainstream religions somewhat promotes peace and harmony its only man that tends to distort the true message depending on his whims and desires. Yes I agree slavery has existed since time immemorial even we are slaves to the government today we just dont have the chains to prove it I would call it legalised slavery.
Murder is a matter of perspective. To ISIS killing me would be justified. To the UK military killing an ISIS fighter is justified. Both have been provided with a nod from a big wig that it's legal therefore not murder.
Christ promoted peace. Religion...not so much. A lot of people were killed in the name of Christianity, and it's different branches within.
Killing can be justified. If you believe it can't, that surely means you have to let someone kill you because you don't believe you should do the same?
Murder is a matter of perspective. To ISIS killing me would be justified. To the UK military killing an ISIS fighter is justified. Both have been provided with a nod from a big wig that it's legal therefore not murder.
Christ promoted peace. Religion...not so much. A lot of people were killed in the name of Christianity, and it's different branches within.
Killing can be justified. If you believe it can't, that surely means you have to let someone kill you because you don't believe you should do the same?
Yeh i agree killing can be justified under certain circumstances such as self defence or to prevent acts of terrorism etc etc but as for cold blooded murder that could never be objectively justified only a subjective justification.
MyNameIsTerry
17-09-17, 04:38
Yeh i agree killing can be justified under certain circumstances such as self defence or to prevent acts of terrorism etc etc but as for cold blooded murder that could never be objectively justified only a subjective justification.
It must go further than that or our soldiers are also guilty as they are killing for other reasons made legal by our government.
I think they just make the same justification so it's not to them either.
When our troops kill them, it's probably murder to their loved ones. Maybe some see if for the war it may be but there will always be those who see it as murder.
So, perhaps the issue is what legalises it to them? Which will take us back round into perversion of religion.
Going back to what you said about how the message can be altered to entice or create something utterly batty, I'm reminded of Red Dwarf:
Rimmer: I never agreed with my parents’ religion but I wouldn’t dream of knocking it.
Lister: What were they?
Rimmer: Seventh Day Advent Hoppists. They believed that every Sunday should be spent hopping. They would hop to church, hop through the service and hop back home again.
Lister: What’s the idea behind that then?
Rimmer: Well, they took the Bible literally. Adam and Eve, the snake and the apple, everything. Took it word for word. Unfortunately their version had a misprint. It was all based on 1 Corinthians 13, where it says “faith, hop and charity, and the greatest of these is hop.” So that’s what they did every seventh day. I tell you, Sunday lunchtimes were a nightmare. Hopping around the table serving soup. We all had to wear sou’esters and asbestos underwear.
Of the scene where the post turns up and the news mentions a missing page found from the first bible with a "to my darling" in it with the "all works are purely fictional" lower down. :biggrin:
Maybe in a post apocalytpic world someone will find my collection Terry Pratchett Discworld books and the dominant religions that springs up believes the world is flat, rides on the back of 4 giant elephants that ride on a huge turtle. :yesyes:
Speaking of flat worlds, what about the utterly batty flat earth mob. I'm sure Gary's had some fun with their beliefs on that forum he mentioned.
It must go further than that or our soldiers are also guilty as they are killing for other reasons made legal by our government.
I think they just make the same justification so it's not to them either.
When our troops kill them, it's probably murder to their loved ones. Maybe some see if for the war it may be but there will always be those who see it as murder.
So, perhaps the issue is what legalises it to them? Which will take us back round into perversion of religion.
Going back to what you said about how the message can be altered to entice or create something utterly batty, I'm reminded of Red Dwarf:
Rimmer: I never agreed with my parents’ religion but I wouldn’t dream of knocking it.
Lister: What were they?
Rimmer: Seventh Day Advent Hoppists. They believed that every Sunday should be spent hopping. They would hop to church, hop through the service and hop back home again.
Lister: What’s the idea behind that then?
Rimmer: Well, they took the Bible literally. Adam and Eve, the snake and the apple, everything. Took it word for word. Unfortunately their version had a misprint. It was all based on 1 Corinthians 13, where it says “faith, hop and charity, and the greatest of these is hop.” So that’s what they did every seventh day. I tell you, Sunday lunchtimes were a nightmare. Hopping around the table serving soup. We all had to wear sou’esters and asbestos underwear.
Of the scene where the post turns up and the news mentions a missing page found from the first bible with a "to my darling" in it with the "all works are purely fictional" lower down. :biggrin:
Maybe in a post apocalytpic world someone will find my collection Terry Pratchett Discworld books and the dominant religions that springs up believes the world is flat, rides on the back of 4 giant elephants that ride on a huge turtle. :yesyes:
Speaking of flat worlds, what about the utterly batty flat earth mob. I'm sure Gary's had some fun with their beliefs on that forum he mentioned.
Oh man Red Dwarf now that's going back a bit whenever I think of Craig Charles I'm always reminded how funny he was narrating takeshis castle.
As for the flat earthers even that has now become a religion to some ive come across a few and I'm dumbfounded with the whole concept of the earth being flat I've never heard about the elephant and turtle supporting the flat earth story now that is some crazy imagination yet I'm more curious to what was smoked minutes before coming up with that idea.
MyNameIsTerry
17-09-17, 07:13
Terry Pratchett's fictional Discworld series is set on a flat world standing on 4 elephants that stand on a turtle that swims through space. The water pours off the edges of the world, presumably to give the turtle a good wash :roflmao:
Maybe he took some of that from flat earthers, I'm not sure as he's seen writing them since the 80's, but he often points out how daft his world is and justifies it by being magical. He often took influences from Shakespeare or modern cinema in constructing his stories or even just the odd sketch.
I grew up on Red Dwarf. Bottom was another one which was hilarious. Challenge used to have Takeshi s Castle on with him running commentary.
If we want a good example of how a book can gain so much traction in modern times we can point to Scientology. Batty as hell and written by a loon. Hollywood love it for some bizarre reason. It's utter nonsense.
Personally I think that the Muslim religion is breeding these sickos. Are we allowed to say that or are we just here to make excuses for this warped stoneaged ideology?
ISIS is a terrorist construct based on the ideology of a warped version of Islam. Even Saudi A, which indirectly funds and supports this organisation, officially condemns their violence, despite the fact that they themselves have their own draconian and "stone-age" laws.
Hate crimes and violence against Muslims has increased dramatically since the rise of ISIS and "terror attacks" and I think the Muslim community has responded stoically. From the Imams in small Mosques to large Muslim countries like Turkey these acts of terror and murder have been condemned.
Furthermore, to create hate and fear and to actually see this as Jihad, or some Holy War, is EXACTLY what these terrorists want. We have moved on since the times of the barbaric Holy Crusades which lasted for centuries, yet these warped individuals want to take us back to those medieval times.
Personally I think that the Muslim religion is breeding these sickos. Are we allowed to say that or are we just here to make excuses for this warped stoneaged ideology? Nah I don't agree with this Gary A I mean we cant keep blaming religion the Karan doesn't preach hatred atall most Muslims are fed up with these extremists just like we are you are entitled to your opinion but feel it's flawed some what :) Cheers
Personally I think that the Muslim religion is breeding these sickos. Are we allowed to say that or are we just here to make excuses for this warped stoneaged ideology?
There's no doubt that the Wahabbist ideology attracts the worst type of people and this is a huge problem in Britain because 80 percent of the mosques are funded by the Saudis. It's also a fact that Saudi Arabia was created by the British and couldn't have survived without US protection. The Ottomans wanted to destroy Wahabism but we sided with the Wahabbists and helped them win, so in a way Britain is the godfather of what's known today as "Islamic" terrorism.
There's no doubt that the Wahabbist ideology attracts the worst type of people and this is a huge problem in Britain because 80 percent of the mosques are funded by the Saudis. It's also a fact that Saudi Arabia was created by the British and couldn't have survived without US protection. The Ottomans wanted to destroy Wahabism but we sided with the Wahabbists and helped them win, so in a way Britain is the godfather of what's known today as "Islamic" terrorism.
Hmmm 80% is a tad high but their is no doubt that the whahabbists has funded certain mosques around the U.k which allowed them to implement wahabi imams and to provide books And literature to support and teach what they believe so its not about attracting the worst type of people its all about breeding and brainwashing innocent young children to accept whabism to be the true Islam hence why they end up turning into the worst kind of people.
MyNameIsTerry
17-09-17, 18:20
Pakistan isn't wahabi and look at what happens if you criticise their religion. Is it just the wahabi majority countries?
Pakistan isn't wahabi and look at what happens if you criticise their religion. Is it just the wahabi majority countries?
Pakistan does have a wahabi influence amongst a certain amount of people just like they a sufi influence amongst other people as well as other denominations being present and technically they are not differant religions but differant sects of the one religion its like having one tree with differant branches on it just like Christianity has Catholics,protestants,Jehovah witnesses,evangelicals etc etc they all still follow Christ and pretty much the same bible but they all have differant views and interpretations on what is the true religion and thats the same with Islam their are dozens and dozens of differant sects ranging from extreme sects like wahabbism to a more mystical and harmonious sect like Sufism and unfortunately today with all the violence going on islam as a whole is viewed like they all follow wahabbism.
Adding in my twopence. My mum grew up in Israel and terrorist attacks like the one that happened in London recently were really common. Everyone in Israel is aware that an unattended bag could be a bomb.
I was once in a cafe in a shopping centre in Israel and I spotted an unattended bag. I asked people around if it was theirs. The people that I asked looked, and immediately moved well away. It wasn't theirs - and they weren't going to take any chances with their own safety. A little area cleared, immediately. My family and I carried on eating lunch, and a few minutes later someone came back to get this bag that they'd forgotten. It was an innocent mistake that time.
My point is, that everyone in Israel is so aware of the risks of bombs that they are able to look after themselves a bit better. Yes the government need to take action, but on an individual level we can all take action by being vigilant for our own sakes.
Look out for unattended bags. We don't have to live in fear of being bombed. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I'm not going to stop using the tube or otherwise living my life, regardless of the increased danger right now. What we can do is be good citizens and be vigilant. I don't need fear to motivate me to do that.
Well said, lior.
I second to that no matter how we look at it its all down to us humans and how we not only treat each other but how we treat the Earth and everything in it. If only we could all stop fighting over our differences and start agreeing with our similarities the world would be a better place.
MyNameIsTerry
17-09-17, 20:43
Adding in my twopence. My mum grew up in Israel and terrorist attacks like the one that happened in London recently were really common. Everyone in Israel is aware that an unattended bag could be a bomb.
I was once in a cafe in a shopping centre in Israel and I spotted an unattended bag. I asked people around if it was theirs. The people that I asked looked, and immediately moved well away. It wasn't theirs - and they weren't going to take any chances with their own safety. A little area cleared, immediately. My family and I carried on eating lunch, and a few minutes later someone came back to get this bag that they'd forgotten. It was an innocent mistake that time.
My point is, that everyone in Israel is so aware of the risks of bombs that they are able to look after themselves a bit better. Yes the government need to take action, but on an individual level we can all take action by being vigilant for our own sakes.
Look out for unattended bags. We don't have to live in fear of being bombed. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I'm not going to stop using the tube or otherwise living my life, regardless of the increased danger right now. What we can do is be good citizens and be vigilant. I don't need fear to motivate me to do that.
The IRA era taught us much the same. Look out for bags in schools is one I cam remember from my childhood.
Later in my late twenties my past company introduced bomb evacuation training and unattended package awareness.
Nothing like Israel of course, I would imagine without naturally adapting to that life would mean you would never leave home.
---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------
Pakistan does have a wahabi influence amongst a certain amount of people just like they a sufi influence amongst other people as well as other denominations being present and technically they are not differant religions but differant sects of the one religion its like having one tree with differant branches on it just like Christianity has Catholics,protestants,Jehovah witnesses,evangelicals etc etc they all still follow Christ and pretty much the same bible but they all have differant views and interpretations on what is the true religion and thats the same with Islam their are dozens and dozens of differant sects ranging from extreme sects like wahabbism to a more mystical and harmonious sect like Sufism and unfortunately today with all the violence going on islam as a whole is viewed like they all follow wahabbism.
Sunni in Pakistan with a small Shia and even smaller Ahmadi population.
Sunni in Pakistan with a small Shia and even smaller Ahmadi population.
Yes you are correct I'm sorry but I failed to mention that within Islam you have 2 major denominations called Sunni Islam and Shia Islam and its from these 2 denominations that we get all the smaller little sects for example wahabbism claims to be Sunni Sufism claims to be Sunni salafis claim to be Sunni etc etc ahmadis agree with both denominations and within Shia Islam you get sects like Alawites (what Bashar al Assad folliws) along with other minority groups within Syria and around that region you also have a sect called the Imamis within Shia etc etc. The problems stems from which one is correct and that is where we get all the aggression and violence from all differant sects believing different things yet claiming to follow the same religion.
Confused yet? Lol
MyNameIsTerry
18-09-17, 05:07
Yes you are correct I'm sorry but I failed to mention that within Islam you have 2 major denominations called Sunni Islam and Shia Islam and its from these 2 denominations that we get all the smaller little sects for example wahabbism claims to be Sunni Sufism claims to be Sunni salafis claim to be Sunni etc etc ahmadis agree with both denominations and within Shia Islam you get sects like Alawites (what Bashar al Assad folliws) along with other minority groups within Syria and around that region you also have a sect called the Imamis within Shia etc etc. The problems stems from which one is correct and that is where we get all the aggression and violence from all differant sects believing different things yet claiming to follow the same religion.
Confused yet? Lol
Hence why regime changes manipulated by us are doomed to fail until they themselves change their attitudes to each other. You tilt the balance in favour of one and they spend their time repaying past atrocities.
I've never thought politics & religion should be mixed. It just doesn't seem to work very well in modern times. And it's very easy to manipulate the believing masses over the more cynical in less religious societies.
I've never had much interest in religion so there is much I could learn about this stuff. Thanks for the explanations, indeed it can be confusing as countries are crossed. Whilst I've had Muslim friends they've been quite modern & moderate so we would be more inclined to be talking about the footie over a few bears than discussing religion on either side. Views respected but more interested in being friends.
---------- Post added at 05:07 ---------- Previous post was at 04:57 ----------
Why do the media keep referring to an 18 year old as a teen? Whilst technically correct he's an adult. Just to make it sound worse? Maybe try to tie it in with the foster carers?
Yes you are correct I'm sorry but I failed to mention that within Islam you have 2 major denominations called Sunni Islam and Shia Islam and its from these 2 denominations that we get all the smaller little sects for example wahabbism claims to be Sunni Sufism claims to be Sunni salafis claim to be Sunni etc etc ahmadis agree with both denominations and within Shia Islam you get sects like Alawites (what Bashar al Assad folliws) along with other minority groups within Syria and around that region you also have a sect called the Imamis within Shia etc etc. The problems stems from which one is correct and that is where we get all the aggression and violence from all differant sects believing different things yet claiming to follow the same religion.
Confused yet? LolInteresting saf so 2 major denominations both Islam based, could one of these actually condone these extremists hence all these attacks on innocent people? Cheers
Interesting saf so 2 major denominations both Islam based, could one of these actually condone these extremists hence all these attacks on innocent people? Cheers
Thats right Dave so you have the 1 Islam which has the Quran as its constitution and than you have 2 major denominations within islam called sunni and shia that also contain many many diferant sects such as the ones mentioned in previous posts and each sect claiming to be the true islam. Now Sunni means "people of tradition" and is usually regarded as orthodox Islam so each sect will claim that the prophet did this that way and another sect will say NO the prophet did it that way so each one will bicker and fight and even end up killing each other.As for shiaism (the party) they were formed a little while after the death of the prophet as a political movement in protest of certain events.
As for condoning these extremists its been done over the years but even muslims will fear for their own lives as these extremists claim anyone who doesnt follow its own brand of Islam is a non believer and may be subjected to death and that is the case with Isis killing thousands of muslims in the middle east.
Interestingly enough was that the Prophet of Islam once said to his followers that there will come a time when Islam would have 72 differant sects and all except 1 will never enter paradise.
Thats right Dave so you have the 1 Islam which has the Quran as its constitution and than you have 2 major denominations within islam called sunni and shia that also contain many many diferant sects such as the ones mentioned in previous posts and each sect claiming to be the true islam. Now Sunni means "people of tradition" and is usually regarded as orthodox Islam so each sect will claim that the prophet did this that way and another sect will say NO the prophet did it that way so each one will bicker and fight and even end up killing each other.As for shiaism (the party) they were formed a little while after the death of the prophet as a political movement in protest of certain events.
As for condoning these extremists its been done over the years but even muslims will fear for their own lives as these extremists claim anyone who doesnt follow its own brand of Islam is a non believer and may be subjected to death and that is the case with Isis killing thousands of muslims in the middle east.
Interestingly enough was that the Prophet of Islam once said to his followers that there will come a time when Islam would have 72 differant sects and all except 1 will never enter paradise. That's frightening 72 sects or cults which can never be good for any one :eek: Even the Christian bible states think it's in Matthew many will come in my name (God) be ye warned don't follow! Yes even Muslims are now fearful of attacks and tbh it will only get worse much worse for every 1 that is caught there's another 10 at least signing up to extremisim so glad Iam not a child in todays world :) Oh BTW don't know if any one has read but another bucket bomb has been found only saw it on the front page of a news paper in some ones trolley at the supermarket so don't know any more than that. Cheers for your comments saf :)
MyNameIsTerry
18-09-17, 15:41
Which one is better? There's only one way to find out -
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/epicrapbattlesofhistory/images/a/a6/Harry_Hill_Fight.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20160719222445
That's frightening 72 sects or cults which can never be good for any one :eek: Even the Christian bible states think it's in Matthew many will come in my name (God) be ye warned don't follow! Yes even Muslims are now fearful of attacks and tbh it will only get worse much worse for every 1 that is caught there's another 10 at least signing up to extremisim so glad Iam not a child in todays world :) Oh BTW don't know if any one has read but another bucket bomb has been found only saw it on the front page of a news paper in some ones trolley at the supermarket so don't know any more than that. Cheers for your comments saf :)
Its ironic that you should mention Matthews gospel because if you read Matthew 7 15-20 its you can connect what Jesus said to what the prophet Muhammad said regarding these 72 different sects. I havent heard anything regarding another bucket bomb ill have a look at the news but its usually the case that an attack happens immediately after another.
---------- Post added at 16:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------
Which one is better? There's only one way to find out -
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/epicrapbattlesofhistory/images/a/a6/Harry_Hill_Fight.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20160719222445
Lol gotta love harry hill I'm on my third round of the Allan partridge show too.
Coming back to your main question the one which is better is the one who adheres to the 5 pillars of Islam
Trust in GOD alone As well as treating fellow human beings with kindness and a way that a Muslim himself would like to be treated
And to remain humble and grateful for what he receives there are more but these are the main ones really.
Its ironic that you should mention Matthews gospel because if you read Matthew 7 15-20 its you can connect what Jesus said to what the prophet Muhammad said regarding these 72 different sects. I havent heard anything regarding another bucket bomb ill have a look at the news but its usually the case that an attack happens immediately after another.
---------- Post added at 16:15 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------
Lol gotta love harry hill I'm on my third round of the Allan partridge show too.
Coming back to your main question the one which is better is the one who adheres to the 5 pillars of Islam
Trust in GOD alone As well as treating fellow human beings with kindness and a way that a Muslim himself would like to be treated
And to remain humble and grateful for what he receives there are more but these are the main ones really. That is ironic saf what does it actually say in those 5 verses? We are for sure living in dark days now it's not going to stop over night either wished it was :) there is too many extremists out there to make any significant change to world peace! Cheers
That is ironic saf what does it actually say in those 5 verses? We are for sure living in dark days now it's not going to stop over night either wished it was :) there is too many extremists out there to make any significant change to world peace! Cheers
Ir basically says this
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
As for stopping all these attacks well its highly unlikely to just end like that since the ideology these extremists use tend to come from the wahabist creed that stems out of not just Saudi Arabia but some of its neighbouring countries so how can they be ridiculed and stopped when they have contractual alliances with the west to protect them in return for selling oil in nothing but Petrol Dollars so its no wonder that the west will turn a blind eye to the butchering and barbarism like stoning to death and beheadings and hangings etc etc that takes place in such countries how many of us know the massacre Saudi is doing to Yemen which is probably the poorest of all Arab countries just because the people ousted a puppet government that was put there by saudi yet we continue to Sell Arms to them.
MyNameIsTerry
18-09-17, 17:56
How little the writer new about horticulture :winks:
How little the writer new about horticulture :winks:
Lmao smh your killing me here Terry.
MyNameIsTerry
18-09-17, 18:04
Science might also disagree with cutting all "bad" trees down... If we want to continue breathing. :biggrin:
This is the thing that gets me about religion, whilst it was conceived so long ago why did the messengers of the the entity that apparently created it all seem so ignorant? Did each version of God forget to come back to update the instruction manual for us?
It would have blown the minds of men back then but it points to a flawed plan by the entity as man would find out for himself that areas of it were BS.
Ir basically says this
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
As for stopping all these attacks well its highly unlikely to just end like that since the ideology these extremists use tend to come from the wahabist creed that stems out of not just Saudi Arabia but some of its neighbouring countries so how can they be ridiculed and stopped when they have contractual alliances with the west to protect them in return for selling oil in nothing but Petrol Dollars so its no wonder that the west will turn a blind eye to the butchering and barbarism like stoning to death and beheadings and hangings etc etc that takes place in such countries how many of us know the massacre Saudi is doing to Yemen which is probably the poorest of all Arab countries just because the people ousted a puppet government that was put there by saudi yet we continue to Sell Arms to them.Yeah know these verses it's brought it all back to me! By their fruits you will know them so true saf so why do people actually get brain washed so easily? Cheers
Well the three main religions we have today Judaism,Christianity and Islam pretty much believe in the 1 same God its just the concept of the 1 god where the 3 religions differ and you can regard the religious books as somewhat an instruction manual given to messengers and prophets for certain people for certain times even the indian Sikh religion believes in the same god they just have their own prophets.
MyNameIsTerry
18-09-17, 18:23
Yeah know these verses it's brought it all back to me! By their fruits you will know them so true saf so why do people actually get brain washed so easily? Cheers
Very simplistic though. Good people do bad things. It's hinting at being born "evil".
Yeah know these verses it's brought it all back to me! By their fruits you will know them so true saf so why do people actually get brain washed so easily? Cheers
Its very easy to teach young children from a very early age to pretty much believe anything to be true because they rely on others for knowledge and information just take the story of Santa for example or even the tooth fairy its all about indoctrination from a early age.
The IRA era taught us much the same. Look out for bags in schools is one I cam remember from my childhood.
Later in my late twenties my past company introduced bomb evacuation training and unattended package awareness.
Nothing like Israel of course, I would imagine without naturally adapting to that life would mean you would never leave home.
I went to a Jewish primary school and we were drilled to deal with bomb scares. We had one or two events where the threat could have been real. Children and adults all over the UK have been experiencing the threat of attack all this time, within religious settings.
It does change how people behave... I reckon there's a lot of fear in the collective consciousness of groups of people and nations who are constantly under threat. Even so, as you say Terry, you can't stop living your life. I refuse to get more scared. That would mean the terrorists are achieving their aims.
I mean, in the long term I'm already s*** scared about there being another holocaust which is not beyond belief. But I'm successfully not thinking about it for now. I've made habits of talking about my sexuality and ethnicity etc in the hope that integrating reduces hate.
Science might also disagree with cutting all "bad" trees down... If we want to continue breathing. :biggrin:
This is the thing that gets me about religion, whilst it was conceived so long ago why did the messengers of the the entity that apparently created it all seem so ignorant? Did each version of God forget to come back to update the instruction manual for us?
It would have blown the minds of men back then but it points to a flawed plan by the entity as man would find out for himself that areas of it were BS.
Earth is about 4.6 billion years old, humans in their evolved form have walked upon the surface for about 100,000 of those years. For the first 98,000 of those years "heaven" and "God" watched with complete indifference to humans dying mostly in infancy.
Then, 2000 years ago, heaven decided to intervene, in a remote part of the desert and for some reason spoke only in Arabic. God seemed to be telling us he was the only one but for some reason also seemed jealous of other Gods.
The best part is that now religious folk like to tell us that this whole plan, 13 billion light years worth of universe, 6 billion years of solar evolution, 100,000 years of known human life was all for our benefit.
I make no apologies when I say it, but I genuinely do not know how anyone with even a minuscule amount of brainpower could even begin to believe such absolute rubbish.
MyNameIsTerry
19-09-17, 02:20
Earth is about 4.6 billion years old, humans in their evolved form have walked upon the surface for about 100,000 of those years. For the first 98,000 of those years "heaven" and "God" watched with complete indifference to humans dying mostly in infancy.
Then, 2000 years ago, heaven decided to intervene, in a remote part of the desert and for some reason spoke only in Arabic. God seemed to be telling us he was the only one but for some reason also seemed jealous of other Gods.
The best part is that now religious folk like to tell us that this whole plan, 13 billion light years worth of universe, 6 billion years of solar evolution, 100,000 years of known human life was all for our benefit.
I make no apologies when I say it, but I genuinely do not know how anyone with even a minuscule amount of brainpower could even begin to believe such absolute rubbish.
But did heaven intervene? Religion, faith, worship, etc all predate modern mainstream religions and don't they include some of the same?
I don't think to look at it solely from this point of view works either. The religious texts were written & introduced by human beings, not deities. They sort to take over all previous religion. And through much of this it was either convert or by killed/persecuted. It's easy to see it was a tool of governments and for all we know they came into existence for that very reason.
But I don't think having faith makes someone less intelligent. I also don't believe those more intelligent take it so literally either, they take elements from it and leave the bits that seem outdated.
Take Noah's Ark. A god so powerful needs to preserve life by getting a human being to load a bunch of animals onto a boat to save them from a flood. That seems like an act of god in those days but in today's world where we can manufacture viruses to wipe people out based on markers, doesn't it make god seem a bit inept?
And killing all the innocents in the process? Poor animals only following the nature instilled into them.
This is why I remain agnostic. I don't know if there is a god. I don't believe in the whole "he works in mysterious ways" stuff as it's too convenient but it doesn't mean there isn't something, somewhere that created everything but just isn't interested in us as we are too insignificant. And I'm not sold on religion because whilst it includes good moral message it also is full of holes that just wouldn't stand up if you tried to introduce any of them now.
God can't be proved or disproved but religion can. But religion was created by man hence is prone to all the failures of us that a god wouldn't be.
---------- Post added at 02:20 ---------- Previous post was at 01:33 ----------
I went to a Jewish primary school and we were drilled to deal with bomb scares. We had one or two events where the threat could have been real. Children and adults all over the UK have been experiencing the threat of attack all this time, within religious settings.
It does change how people behave... I reckon there's a lot of fear in the collective consciousness of groups of people and nations who are constantly under threat. Even so, as you say Terry, you can't stop living your life. I refuse to get more scared. That would mean the terrorists are achieving their aims.
I mean, in the long term I'm already s*** scared about there being another holocaust which is not beyond belief. But I'm successfully not thinking about it for now. I've made habits of talking about my sexuality and ethnicity etc in the hope that integrating reduces hate.
That's true, lior. Sadly even early this year against Jewish schools.
Talking is definatelty good. Ignorance breeds without learning about each other. It riles some morons up but it's the moderate population that hold the balance of power and as we learn we only get stronger against the fringes.
Other holocausts have happened and I have to think Europe will never reach a situation where it could happen again. Whilst there may be far right elements on the rise, they get nowhere without the moderate masses.
Earth is about 4.6 billion years old, humans in their evolved form have walked upon the surface for about 100,000 of those years. For the first 98,000 of those years "heaven" and "God" watched with complete indifference to humans dying mostly in infancy.
Then, 2000 years ago, heaven decided to intervene, in a remote part of the desert and for some reason spoke only in Arabic. God seemed to be telling us he was the only one but for some reason also seemed jealous of other Gods.
The best part is that now religious folk like to tell us that this whole plan, 13 billion light years worth of universe, 6 billion years of solar evolution, 100,000 years of known human life was all for our benefit.
I make no apologies when I say it, but I genuinely do not know how anyone with even a minuscule amount of brainpower could even begin to believe such absolute rubbish.
That's a very poor translation of a text that was probably translated poorly (a thousand times) previously.... But I will stick to science as that is what you have focused on....
I don't know what your educational background is Gary. I studied Philosophy. The branch of mathematics and Philosophy dealing with infinity is called Set Theory which uses the axiom of infinity based on Zermelo–Fraenkel axioms. It is a mathematical model or construct which makes as much sense as err...nothing. There are 8 other axioms which I won't go into. But, you see, mathematics cannot deal with infinity because it cannot define it. Hence why it uses models to express it.
I feel the subject of God and infinity are closely related, in order to bridge both theology and science. We use the term omni- to express the infinite (ie, all). We say God is infinite too: Omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. Perhaps this is why God was created by the so-called "educated" man to express the infinite: because science not only struggles to define what it can see, but actually sees a tiny fraction of what it says exists.
When you actually understand what science is saying (including the holographic universe computer code simulation discovered recently), not to mention the Uncertainty Principle in quantum mechanics, you realise that not only can God (in whatever form) exist, but that HE probably always has and always will.
Everything becomes possible.
Good post KK.
Here's a good article on another religion...the left's religion...(cue the JAWS music please)...Global Warming!
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/19/delingpole-climate-alarmists-finally-admit-we-were-wrong-about-global-warming/
I'm a Christian. I believe in a creator. Atheist's believe in...BANG!
Good post KK.
Here's a good article on another religion...the left's religion...(cue the JAWS music please)...Global Warming!
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/19/delingpole-climate-alarmists-finally-admit-we-were-wrong-about-global-warming/
I'm a Christian. I believe in a creator. Atheist's believe in...BANG!
In a previous post on global warming, I openly said that you could always argue that predicted models were wrong, but what you can't deny is that man made greenhouse gases do cause a global temperature rise. That's the thing, people like you simply say that it's not happening and that global warming is a natural occurrence. It is, of course, but man made greenhouse gases are speeding up the process.
As for atheists "believing" in "BANG", we simply don't have to believe, the evidence of it is right there. The expansive nature of the universe, the mathematical evidence, the cosmic microwave background, it all points at this "BANG". You're the one who needs to believe, not me. I have observable evidence on my side. Do you?
---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:08 ----------
That's a very poor translation of a text that was probably translated poorly (a thousand times) previously.... But I will stick to science as that is what you have focused on....
I don't know what your educational background is Gary. I studied Philosophy. The branch of mathematics and Philosophy dealing with infinity is called Set Theory which uses the axiom of infinity based on Zermelo–Fraenkel axioms. It is a mathematical model or construct which makes as much sense as err...nothing. There are 8 other axioms which I won't go into. But, you see, mathematics cannot deal with infinity because it cannot define it. Hence why it uses models to express it.
I feel the subject of God and infinity are closely related, in order to bridge both theology and science. We use the term omni- to express the infinite (ie, all). We say God is infinite too: Omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent. Perhaps this is why God was created by the so-called "educated" man to express the infinite: because science not only struggles to define what it can see, but actually sees a tiny fraction of what it says exists.
When you actually understand what science is saying (including the holographic universe computer code simulation discovered recently), not to mention the Uncertainty Principle in quantum mechanics, you realise that not only can God (in whatever form) exist, but that HE probably always has and always will.
Everything becomes possible.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's a slightly convoluted description of the God of the gaps argument, is it not? As in, we don't know how that works, therefore God did it? Or maybe I'm reading your post wrong.
Can exist is an absolute minefield. Where does that end? As you say, everything becomes possible. If you delve into philosophy and mathematical models deeply enough, you could say that the Easter bunny and Thor can exist, but the point is, people aren't marching around worshipping these things on the basis of they can exist.
So what are they worshipping? What are they praying to? Noivous has just expressed that. A creator. A being, an entity. What are they basing it on, exactly? Not philosophy, not science, not mathematical models, but sheer faith placed in the type of story I butchered above.
I would have far more time for religion and religious folk in general if they tried to use things like science and evidence to back their belief up, but they simply don't. Noivous has criticised atheists for accepting the Big Bang theory, which has an absolute multitude of testable observable evidence in support of it. That same person then seems to brag about believing in something that has absolutely no evidence of existing. That about sums religious people up for me.
MyNameIsTerry
19-09-17, 18:08
For all we know there is a creator. They may have started the big bang. They may occupy somewhere else. They may have started it off as the result of losing a bet with a rival in another place. They may have no interest in a bunch of ants on one tiny world building monuments to them.
Religion and a creator don't have to have any connection. If atheists look to religion to point out it's not possible I think they are choosing to bias the argument in their favour because only a bloke in some sandals thousands of years ago says a creator gave us any interest.
Trump at the U.N. today:
President Donald Trump: "The problem in Venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented but that socialism has been faithfully implemented. (long pause) From the Soviet Union to Cuba to Venuzela, wherever socialism or communism has been adopted it has delivered anguish and devastation and failure."
MyNameIsTerry
19-09-17, 18:35
I know American presidents often seem to believe they are a deity but I reckon that post was meant for the other thread, N :biggrin:
For all we know there is a creator. They may have started the big bang. They may occupy somewhere else. They may have started it off as the result of losing a bet with a rival in another place. They may have no interest in a bunch of ants on one tiny world building monuments to them.
Religion and a creator don't have to have any connection. If atheists look to religion to point out it's not possible I think they are choosing to bias the argument in their favour because only a bloke in some sandals thousands of years ago says a creator gave us any interest.
Simply put, how can you believe in something that has absolutely no evidence of existing? "Impossible", in my experience, is not a word that atheists use. As KK said above, when you delve in deep enough, anything is possible. What you can certainly say is that all available and testable evidence points away from something, and that "something" becomes less credible with every observation made.
I often say that people who say they think there's "something" even though they don't believe in religion or scripture are quite confusing. It's a bit like saying you believe in Harry Potter even though you're sure the books are fictional. The idea of God or a creator only exists because of religion and scripture, so to utterly reject both then give their main point any credence is a bit baffling to me, really.
I know American presidents often seem to believe they are a deity but I reckon that post was meant for the other thread, N :biggrin:
Duly noted and corrected. Thank you. :)
MyNameIsTerry
19-09-17, 19:32
That baffles me just as much. How can you argue science has tested whether a god exists? What test? What evidence? Lack of evidence counts for neither since the test may not be sufficient. Therefore science has proved nothing either way.
What is science trying to test? Any test based on books written by a bloke who would be amazed at the sight of a flushing toilet is hardly credible.
I remain open to the possibility not that I believe there is something. I literally don't know and until someone can prove either way I choose to remain open to the possibility of some being or entity or energy or something and also open to eventual proof there isn't.
Maybe someone did pop up and claim to be god and then a bunch of ancient Daily Mail writers pushed out the scripture. Science can disprove scripture but can It prove whether the authors were on a wind up, seeking to control others or just the village loony?
I can agree that the concept of God comes from religion whether real or the construct on one original person's mind. But God may vary as people may wish to believe but not In the view forced upon them by a book written by someone with less understanding of the world around them than people today.
I wonder what it would look like if we wrote them today? Thou shalt not have any other gods but I, buy my iPhone and none other. :biggrin:
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's a slightly convoluted description of the God of the gaps argument, is it not? As in, we don't know how that works, therefore God did it? Or maybe I'm reading your post wrong.
Can exist is an absolute minefield. Where does that end? As you say, everything becomes possible. If you delve into philosophy and mathematical models deeply enough, you could say that the Easter bunny and Thor can exist, but the point is, people aren't marching around worshipping these things on the basis of they can exist.
So what are they worshipping? What are they praying to? Noivous has just expressed that. A creator. A being, an entity. What are they basing it on, exactly? Not philosophy, not science, not mathematical models, but sheer faith placed in the type of story I butchered above.
I would have far more time for religion and religious folk in general if they tried to use things like science and evidence to back their belief up, but they simply don't. Noivous has criticised atheists for accepting the Big Bang theory, which has an absolute multitude of testable observable evidence in support of it. That same person then seems to brag about believing in something that has absolutely no evidence of existing. That about sums religious people up for me.
I made the comparison between God and infinity for a specific and pertinent reason. That anything is possible is not pertinent to this argument. Thor or the Easter Bunny analogy is fallacious because neither represent the omni- or infinite. They can or cannot exist - within finite limits.
You cannot debunk "faith". It does not rely on empirical evidence. Nor does it rely on some form of ignorance. An atheist can be just as dogmatic as a "brainwashed" believer of faith. In fact, science can be viewed like a religion if you blindly accept everything you're told without understanding.
However, I would say that religion has been used for more wars than any other "cause", and that based on a "book" that passed through endless literal translations and interpretations is very sad, because the essence of its real meaning has been distorted beyond all recognition then used to divide and conquer.
Man has made God in his image unfortunately.
That baffles me just as much. How can you argue science has tested whether a god exists? What test? What evidence? Lack of evidence counts for neither since the test may not be sufficient. Therefore science has proved nothing either way.
What is science trying to test? Any test based on books written by a bloke who would be amazed at the sight of a flushing toilet is hardly credible.
I remain open to the possibility not that I believe there is something. I literally don't know and until someone can prove either way I choose to remain open to the possibility of some being or entity or energy or something and also open to eventual proof there isn't.
Hardly a good example in Harry Potter. A book written by a modern living author who we know isn't any more than another human being. The author can prove it's fiction, as they claim. That's not comparable to scripture thousands of years old where no such fictional claim was made. That introduces bias straight away but I understand what you are trying to say.
Science hasn't tested whether God exists, its simply looking for the answer. The more testing is done, the more observations made, the more you begin to see that the answer is so far outwith what any human can possibly imagine that the idea of any God just becomes absurd.
Of course, your position is the most logical. You're open to evidence for or against, as I am, actually, but if I'm being honest I don't know what positive evidence of God would even look like.
For instance, not so long ago people could quite understandly say that earthquakes were proof that some entity was punishing people. Mountains and land shifting beneath people's very feet, you really would think that God did that at the time. Then, we discovered tectonic plates, and all of a sudden you realise that this horrific land shifting disaster was simply down to a natural explainable process.
What I'm saying is that something God evoking could happen tomorrow, and I could throw my hands up and accept that as proof of gods existence, but who's to say that in a few decades science won't find a plausible mechanism for that occurrence?
Good chat though, I'm really into this stuff. :D
That baffles me just as much. How can you argue science has tested whether a god exists? What test? What evidence? Lack of evidence counts for neither since the test may not be sufficient. Therefore science has proved nothing either way.
What is science trying to test? Any test based on books written by a bloke who would be amazed at the sight of a flushing toilet is hardly credible.
I remain open to the possibility not that I believe there is something. I literally don't know and until someone can prove either way I choose to remain open to the possibility of some being or entity or energy or something and also open to eventual proof there isn't.
If we are to apply the scientific method to even the big bang or evolution it would pretty much fail just like a religious person would say here I have brought the physical God to you because science is based on probabilities and predictions yet only become an absolute fact through observation, testification, falsification and verification which is impossible to do when it comes to the origins of our universe and how it all began. So it just doesnt work like that for instance many religious people who Believe in a higher power would argue that God is outside of our realm therefore for him to come in front of us he would have to enter into his own creation I.e Time, space, environment etc etc now certain religions would argue he could and he has whereas others religions would refuse to agree and I go back to a few of you're earlier posts when you mentioned we may be too insignificant therefore God has not bothered with us and interestingly enough many ancient religions use to believe that very same thing so they took up statues and idols as demi gods they would than worship these demi gods hoping they could pass on the prayers and needs to the one higher God that left them. So that's when prophets and messengers would appear with certain laws and guidance to remind people what God is and what God isn't.
So two more arrests over the Parsons green tube attack have been made in Newport just several miles away from where I live. As worrisome and nerve wrecking it is when such attacks take place it really starts to put things into perspective when it's right on your doorstep. Lets hope if convicted the necessary actions take place to send out a message.
So two more arrests over the Parsons green tube attack have been made in Newport just several miles away from where I live. As worrisome and nerve wrecking it is when such attacks take place it really starts to put things into perspective when it's right on your doorstep. Lets hope if convicted the necessary actions take place to send out a message. Cool but yeah can see your concerns on this saf just hope they don't get released on bail like so many only to go back and hurt innocent folk again :mad: I say deport them and up to human rights on these cases Cheers
The current Commissioner of the Metropolitan police Cressida Dick doesn't have the credibility or skills to deal with the "terror" problem. Her only qualifications seem to be that she's a woman and a lesbian, this was more than enough for her to land the top job.
Dick was in charge of the police operation that led to the murder of the innocent Brazilian electrician De Menezez in London. Like a coward she didn't take responsibility for this cold blooded murder and instead tried to cover it up by spreading disinformation.
De Menezes family call for Cressida Dick to be barred from leading Met
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/17/de-menezes-family-call-cressida-dick-barred-from-leading-met
Cool but yeah can see your concerns on this saf just hope they don't get released on bail like so many only to go back and hurt innocent folk again :mad: I say deport them and up to human rights on these cases Cheers
Most of the current radicalisation is actually happening in prisons. Arrest a potential terror suspect and put him in prison where he will infect and radicalise others. Unless there is a serious de-radicalisation programme and proper segregation, all you are doing is creating a breeding ground for more of the same, unfortunately.
And deporting even a known hate preacher or terror suspect is a complex and lengthy process. Look how long it took for Abu Hamza to be deported to US to face trial. For "home grown" suspects, it will not be an option, so again, there needs to be a proper rehabilitation system in place.
Most of the current radicalisation is actually happening in prisons. Arrest a potential terror suspect and put him in prison where he will infect and radicalise others. Unless there is a serious de-radicalisation programme and proper segregation, all you are doing is creating a breeding ground for more of the same, unfortunately.
And deporting a even a known hate preacher or terror suspect is a complex and lengthy process. Look how long it took for Abu Hamza to be deported to US to face trial. For "home grown" suspects, it will not be an option, so again, there needs to be a proper rehabilitation system in place. Really, don't kid yourself KK it was on the news last night that Britain ranks number 5 for people clicking on links that show these extremists groups there are some sad people in the Uk wanting to be like ISIS and other extremist groups not just prisoners.
Yeah quite agree on what you say but how on earth can you segregate them all its a impossible task ahh ok build special units to house them all sorry too much money etc and programmes must be set up to help de-radicalise people before its too late unfortunately the internet is partly to blame on this more should be done via SN sites and shut down not some but all people who preach this vile and damaging hatred crap will it happen? Nah I doubt it.
Yeah remember the case in question it took way too long to deport him so the laws MUST be changed to include Home Grown suspects A whole string of measures must be put in place first again its not going to happen for a long time sadly Cheers
Really, don't kid yourself KK it was on the news last night that Britain ranks number 5 for people clicking on links that show these extremists groups there are some sad people in the Uk wanting to be like ISIS and other extremist groups not just prisoners.
Yeah quite agree on what you say but how on earth can you segregate them all its a impossible task ahh ok build special units to house them all sorry too much money etc and programmes must be set up to help de-radicalise people before its too late unfortunately the internet is partly to blame on this more should be done via SN sites and shut down not some but all people who preach this vile and damaging hatred crap will it happen? Nah I doubt it.
Yeah remember the case in question it took way too long to deport him so the laws MUST be changed to include Home Grown suspects A whole string of measures must be put in place first again its not going to happen for a long time sadly Cheers
I think you're being duped, BBoy, if you think there isn't a problem with the current prison system. The Internet is full of ghouls, trolls, wannabes and mindless people addicted to watching violence and killing. But that doesn't make them radicalised Jihadist terrorists. People locked up 24/7 with existing mental health and/or drug problems are easy targets for these people, however.
As for the solution... I'm not saying there is an easy answer. But as we discussed in your 'Prisons Riot' thread, more funding is required; and more attention and importance given to proper rehabilitation. The Internet and Social Media are easy targets, but there will always be other avenues to communicate - eg, the Dark Web - which are even more difficult to police.
MyNameIsTerry
21-09-17, 05:22
Dave, people on political forums seem to look at those sites too for discussion. They need to explain the number inside that who could become radicalised. But it doesn't help having these sites up to promote themselves either as they will see the traffic as supportive or at least use it in their propaganda.
If they put up a video of someone being executed, people over here flock to it because it's current just as they did with beheadings over the years. It's people & the internet craze, the YouTube BS that gets viewed when half of it is mindless crap uploaded for the sake of it.
There has been a report into prisons which concluded that it was a prime breeding ground because there is a lack of PO's who can speak the same languages and understand what is being discussed. And they get put in with the nutjob clerics who can see prison as just another "target audience". Putting clerics in prison really doesn't work unless you put them away from anyone they can try to convert to their cause.
As for deporting home grown radicals, where do you propose to send them? The Middle East? Why? They don't come from there, they come from the UK. Why would any of those countries accept them? They don't want mote violent nutters either. You might as well pick France or Germany or Australia or Tonga, they are as relevant.
I'm all for deporting convicted terrorists back to their countries regardless of human rights. I don't want to be paying for MI5 to watch them forever just because they may get tortured, they don't care about killing or maiming UK citizens. That may sound harsh to some but I'm not concerned with their human rights at the cost of people who need help here, throw that money at the NHS, disabled, homeless, etc. Unfortunately that will never be accepted in a liberal society as we have to be shown to care about their welfare. A better solution is needed for these cases as they are laughing at us as they claim the same benefits as the rest if us.
The current Commissioner of the Metropolitan police Cressida Dick doesn't have the credibility or skills to deal with the "terror" problem. Her only qualifications seem to be that she's a woman and a lesbian, this was more than enough for her to land the top job.
Dick was in charge of the police operation that led to the murder of the innocent Brazilian electrician De Menezez in London. Like a coward she didn't take responsibility for this cold blooded murder and instead tried to cover it up by spreading disinformation.
De Menezes family call for Cressida Dick to be barred from leading Met
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/17/de-menezes-family-call-cressida-dick-barred-from-leading-met
Who gives a f*** if she is a Lesbian oh and a woman? can't have a woman in charge of big tough cops,hey.:mad:
Wait a minute? The woman is a lesbian and her name is Cressida Dick? I'm sorry but I gotta add that name to my "Names that Fit" thread:D.
---------- Post added at 07:20 ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 ----------
In all honesty though when the shit hits the fan I would rather have a big tough cop come to my aid than some girl Dick.
When the shit hits the fan, I would rather have a woman who's name might be Dick.:D.
MyNameIsTerry
21-09-17, 08:42
She joined the police as a WPC and remained in that role for over a decade before joining the accelerated promotion programme that saw her bumped up a few levels two years later.
She would have walked the beat just the same as the men just as WPC's do today.
Hollow's larger point is about political correctness not serving the public's best interests.
MyNameIsTerry
21-09-17, 09:03
Positive discrimination is something we definitely see in high profile roles however Dick was one of two women going for this job and both had a long history in the police with very senior roles.
Given she had left the police to join the Foreign Office, it's possible she was favoured. She's used to high level command though so it's unfair to suggest she isn't skilled.
Who gives a f*** if she is a Lesbian oh and a woman? can't have a woman in charge of big tough cops,hey.:mad:
Nobody knew or cared until she started shouting it from the rooftops.
---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 ----------
Positive discrimination is something we definitely see in high profile roles however Dick was one of two women going for this job and both had a long history in the police with very senior roles.
Given she had left the police to join the Foreign Office, it's possible she was favoured. She's used to high level command though so it's unfair to suggest she isn't skilled.
It fitness standards weren't lowered in the first place then most of these women wouldn't even be in the police force. They will keep shoving political correctness down our throats even if it wrecks every institution in Britain.
Police fitness tests 'downgraded' for women
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-181623/Police-fitness-tests-downgraded-women.html
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/24/01/41B1DE6000000578-0-image-a-56_1498265471340.jpg
What a load of of shit,women here at the Police Academy go through thesame training as men,and a lot do better than them.
Our prison's segregate,the Isil terrorists so they don't radicalise the masses.
I think you're being duped, BBoy, if you think there isn't a problem with the current prison system. The Internet is full of ghouls, trolls, wannabes and mindless people addicted to watching violence and killing. But that doesn't make them radicalised Jihadist terrorists. People locked up 24/7 with existing mental health and/or drug problems are easy targets for these people, however.
As for the solution... I'm not saying there is an easy answer. But as we discussed in your 'Prisons Riot' thread, more funding is required; and more attention and importance given to proper rehabilitation. The Internet and Social Media are easy targets, but there will always be other avenues to communicate - eg, the Dark Web - which are even more difficult to police. KK I never said there wasn't a problem with the prison system, what I am saying is it's not just a 'problem' in prisons, it's in other places too like schools maybe not as bad but it's there. the problem
is global and huge too big for a single government to handle and it's growing big time Sure it's not just the internet but sadly the internet does play a big part and yeah the Dark Web too (but that's still internet really even though it's not main stream) and with the correct tools etc I believe it could be taken down and again yes more funding is required. Thanks for your comments KK :) Cheers
---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:26 ----------
Dave, people on political forums seem to look at those sites too for discussion. They need to explain the number inside that who could become radicalised. But it doesn't help having these sites up to promote themselves either as they will see the traffic as supportive or at least use it in their propaganda.
If they put up a video of someone being executed, people over here flock to it because it's current just as they did with beheadings over the years. It's people & the internet craze, the YouTube BS that gets viewed when half of it is mindless crap uploaded for the sake of it.
There has been a report into prisons which concluded that it was a prime breeding ground because there is a lack of PO's who can speak the same languages and understand what is being discussed. And they get put in with the nutjob clerics who can see prison as just another "target audience". Putting clerics in prison really doesn't work unless you put them away from anyone they can try to convert to their cause.
As for deporting home grown radicals, where do you propose to send them? The Middle East? Why? They don't come from there, they come from the UK. Why would any of those countries accept them? They don't want mote violent nutters either. You might as well pick France or Germany or Australia or Tonga, they are as relevant.
I'm all for deporting convicted terrorists back to their countries regardless of human rights. I don't want to be paying for MI5 to watch them forever just because they may get tortured, they don't care about killing or maiming UK citizens. That may sound harsh to some but I'm not concerned with their human rights at the cost of people who need help here, throw that money at the NHS, disabled, homeless, etc. Unfortunately that will never be accepted in a liberal society as we have to be shown to care about their welfare. A better solution is needed for these cases as they are laughing at us as they claim the same benefits as the rest if us. Terry I understand that. And yes
we all know the BS will continue on You Tube for years to come sadly because it appeals the masses.
I agree that's it's more prolific in prisons because of the sheer numbers of people (often over crowded) and totally understaffed so it's a ideal place there is no easy answer either. Yeah didn't think that one through home gown suspects cant be deported . But I do remember that muslim cleric that it took ages and ages to deport them. and at the time the current home secretary said new laws are needed to make it easier to deport such people has it happened No.
---------- Post added at 10:53 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------
Nobody knew or cared until she started shouting it from the rooftops.
---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 ----------
It fitness standards weren't lowered in the first place then most of these women wouldn't even be in the police force. They will keep shoving political correctness down our throats even if it wrecks every institution in Britain.
Police fitness tests 'downgraded' for women
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-181623/Police-fitness-tests-downgraded-women.html
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/24/01/41B1DE6000000578-0-image-a-56_1498265471340.jpg This pic is outrageous and is wrong and a waste of money in my book what ever next? Cheers
What a load of of shit,women here at the Police Academy go through thesame training as men,and a lot do better than them.
Our prison's segregate,the Isil terrorists so they don't radicalise the masses.
You know that is the best idea I've heard yet about segregating radicals in prisons.
You know that is the best idea I've heard yet about segregating radicals in prisons.
Many countries "segregate" prisoners at risk of causing harm to other inmates but too many of our prisons appear to be run by the inmates themselves - and political correctness.
The remand process is the most problematic, as segregation during this period is almost impossible, and "human rights" laws would probably prevent it anyway at this stage.
---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:19 ----------
KK I never said there wasn't a problem with the prison system, what I am saying is it's not just a 'problem' in prisons, it's in other places too like schools maybe not as bad but it's there. the problem
is global and huge too big for a single government to handle and it's growing big time Sure it's not just the internet but sadly the internet does play a big part and yeah the Dark Web too (but that's still internet really even though it's not main stream) and with the correct tools etc I believe it could be taken down and again yes more funding is required. Thanks for your comments KK :) Cheers[COLOR="blue"]
It's OK Dave - I know you're trying to look for solutions like the rest of us. But it's a very complex problem and the media don't help with their disinformation :lac:
Many countries "segregate" prisoners at risk of causing harm to other inmates but too many of our prisons appear to be run by the inmates themselves - and political correctness.
The remand process is the most problematic, as segregation during this period is almost impossible, and "human rights" laws would probably prevent it anyway at this stage.
---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:19 ----------
It's OK Dave - I know you're trying to look for solutions like the rest of us. But it's a very complex problem and the media don't help with their disinformation :lac: It's very complex KK the media is often a pain in the butt sadly. I have just watched the main ITV news and learned one of the 2 suspects are now released and no charges either this sucks he is now back in circulation to bomb again it makes me sick:mad:
MyNameIsTerry
23-09-17, 05:40
It fitness standards weren't lowered in the first place then most of these women wouldn't even be in the police force. They will keep shoving political correctness down our throats even if it wrecks every institution in Britain.
Police fitness tests 'downgraded' for women
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-181623/Police-fitness-tests-downgraded-women.html
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/24/01/41B1DE6000000578-0-image-a-56_1498265471340.jpg
Then Dick made the physical the same as the men back in the 80's.
I disagree with lowering these physical standards because they are no more than the things we did as children in P.E. lessons. It was a way to get them in, New Labour did lots of that (look at the worthless uni degrees issue), when they should have told them to get fit first and reapply.
As Lola says, men & women can be just as fit and women can be fitter. There is no reason why they couldn't have kept the old standards in my opinion.
As for the "cultural problems" they mention, since most coppers are young they will hopefully have moved on from pinching WPC's bums which will be more the older, more senior dinosaurs. Men & women work together in many jobs these days, it's not the 70's.
I can remember that pic. It seemed like a case of stereotyping. Gay man = camp, gay women = butch. I'm not surprised it peed off gay men less likely to watch to parade in more outlandish ways. I've often seen people in Big Brother discussed quite negatively by gay men when it comes to this as they believe it's stigma.
Remember the army having a camoflage make up stand at one event in recent years? They said it was to attract women, presumably some upper class officer nob thinking of "the little ladies". :doh:
MyNameIsTerry
01-10-17, 11:38
So two more arrests over the Parsons green tube attack have been made in Newport just several miles away from where I live. As worrisome and nerve wrecking it is when such attacks take place it really starts to put things into perspective when it's right on your doorstep. Lets hope if convicted the necessary actions take place to send out a message.
Doesn't it feel strange?
An ISIS supporting Imam is on trial at the moment for 4 months of preaching in the city me & Dave are from. Preaching martyrdom to kids.
There needs to be action against anyone who harbours these idiots but I guess that means local communities shut the police out? But that's bizarre to me as they should want these nutters gone too.
Doesn't it feel strange?
An ISIS supporting Imam is on trial at the moment for 4 months of preaching in the city me & Dave are from. Preaching martyrdom to kids.
There needs to be action against anyone who harbours these idiots but I guess that means local communities shut the police out? But that's bizarre to me as they should want these nutters gone too. What gets me is this Imam was 'allowed' for a whole 4 months to preach this hatred stuff and get away with it for that long it angers me:mad: Don't see that shutting the police out is helpful one bit really more must be done to remove these mindless idiots off our streets. I also think local councils should be proactive on removing them as quick as possible. For every one radicalised person they remove there's another 10 wanting to join forces, again only the surface is being scratched imho. Cheers
What gets me is this Imam was 'allowed' for a whole 4 months to preach this hatred stuff and get away with it for that long it angers me:mad:
Most of these "Imams" are on the payroll of the security services. When hate preachers are "monitored" by MI5, what it really means is that they're under their direct protection.These Imams recruit jihadists on behalf of the the UK government so that they can be sent to places like Libya and Syria to do the fighting on the ground.
MI5 stopped Scotland Yard taking Choudary down, sources claim
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/21/mi5-stopped-scotland-yard-taking-choudary-down-sources-claim/
'Sorted' by MI5: How UK government sent British-Libyans to fight Gaddafi
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488
A comment from a user from the second article:
"The British Government should go ahead and declare them the jihadi squadrons of the Queen's royal caliphate division" :roflmao:
Most of these "Imams" are on the payroll of the security services. When hate preachers are "monitored" by MI5, what it really means is that they're under their direct protection.These Imams recruit jihadists on behalf of the the UK government so that they can be sent to places like Libya and Syria to do the fighting on the ground.
MI5 stopped Scotland Yard taking Choudary down, sources claim
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/21/mi5-stopped-scotland-yard-taking-choudary-down-sources-claim/
'Sorted' by MI5: How UK government sent British-Libyans to fight Gaddafi
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488 Well that sums it up in a nutshell if we cant trust the security services then who can we trust?? Iam gobsmacked by both stories. Cheers
Most of these "Imams" are on the payroll of the security services. When hate preachers are "monitored" by MI5, what it really means is that they're under their direct protection.These Imams recruit jihadists on behalf of the the UK government so that they can be sent to places like Libya and Syria to do the fighting on the ground.
MI5 stopped Scotland Yard taking Choudary down, sources claim
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/21/mi5-stopped-scotland-yard-taking-choudary-down-sources-claim/
'Sorted' by MI5: How UK government sent British-Libyans to fight Gaddafi
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sorted-mi5-how-uk-government-sent-british-libyans-fight-gaddafi-1219906488
Certainly much more going on than people are led to believe, eh? Intelligence agencies can always say (and do) that their involvement was for "infiltration" and/or "monitoring" purposes, but that doesn't always wash, as it means we have to implicitly and without question trust everything they say for our own "security and safety". Accountability is lost.
Amber Rudd: viewers of online terrorist material face 15 years in jail
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail
“I want to make sure those who view despicable terrorist content online, including jihadi websites, far-right propaganda and bomb-making instructions, face the full force of the law,” said Rudd
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaIkCJCoC5RkCHnuiLJTDRJh1QcYOFV eRIliFQ_TKWXomWBtTNTA
Amber Rudd: viewers of online terrorist material face 15 years in jail
“I want to make sure those who view despicable terrorist content online, including jihadi websites, far-right propaganda and bomb-making instructions, face the full force of the law,” said Rudd
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Might aswel as just leave the internet now before we all get arrested. They claim everything is far right propaganda, In before you get thrown in jail for watching youtube videos
MyNameIsTerry
03-10-17, 09:50
So, I might get arrested for reading about the latest celebrity beach shots on The Daily Mail website? :winks:
So, I might get arrested for reading about the latest celebrity beach shots on The Daily Mail website? :winks:
I guess it would depend if the celebrity leans leftwing or rightwing :roflmao:
MyNameIsTerry
03-10-17, 10:30
I guess it would depend if the celebrity leans leftwing or rightwing :roflmao:
It was Trump in speedos, perhaps I need locking up for very different reasons? :biggrin:
Amber Rudd: viewers of online terrorist material face 15 years in jail
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/03/amber-rudd-viewers-of-online-terrorist-material-face-15-years-in-jail
“I want to make sure those who view despicable terrorist content online, including jihadi websites, far-right propaganda and bomb-making instructions, face the full force of the law,” said Rudd
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaIkCJCoC5RkCHnuiLJTDRJh1QcYOFV eRIliFQ_TKWXomWBtTNTA
So...is it ok to view far left websites?
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