Schiz OCD(?) [Archive] - No More Panic

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Juustopallo

29-09-17, 17:48

Hello everybody!
Unfortunately I write to you with a lot of worry in my mind. I have a huge fear that I'm experiencing the prodromal stage of psychosis. I think about it all the time. I'm a 23yo male.

One year ago I got really anxious. I had panic attacks many times a day. I started to worry I was losing my mind. I often spent my days googling my symptoms looking for relief. Always found it but hat relief was always short lived. Depersonalization made me worry even more. After some time that worry got company from intrusive thoughts. I had them about everything. I thought about super nasty and scary things all the time. At nights I would wake up with my mind racing with very random images and feeling super dissociated. I cried every day. I was very obsessed about my symptoms and also all kinds of stupid things like ending up killing myself against my will, losing my love towards my dear girlfriend, the meaning/meaninglessness of life etc. All the time I was still worried that I would end up being a schizophrenic. Constantly checking for hallucinations and "psychotic" or weird thoughts.

This summer I decided I had to change something. Waiting and spending time alone didn't do anything good. I found Mark Freeman's youtube channel about OCD and started to take steps towards a healthier life. I started going out again on a daily basis, learned that my existential obsessions didn't need to be answered and slowly I started to feel somewhat normal again (I still had the fear of going crazy but it didn't stop me from doing the things I wanted to do). My intrusive thoughts lessened and I started to have a more positive look towards future. "Maybe it was just OCD playing tricks with me."

After cutting out the compulsive google searching, I started to feel very anxious again. I needed to be sure I was ok. Racing thoughts and weird thoughts/perceptions came back. The weird mind pops also came back. Now I'm in a point where I'm constantly visualizing how my hallucinations would look.
If I hear a sound of a car, I think to myself "I could imagine that this would be a sound of a scary monster" and then be freaked out by that image of monster in my head.
"Why would I think something like that! What if I started to believe that there are monsters in my house?!"
These thoughts just get even more abstract and disturbing with time.
"What if I started to believe someone is planting these thoughts in my mind?"
"What if I started to believe I'm possessed by demons?"
"What if all this is just my hallucination and I'm actually somewhere else?"
"What if I started to believe I was one with the universe and somehow share my being with nature?"
"What if I started to believe that these buildings/trees/cars/just about anything I'm seeing are alive and want to do something bad to me?"

And the supidest of them all "What are X (insert anything in the world) anyway? Does it look/feel weird to me? After this thought it always does. And this of course means to me that I'm going crazy. Everywhere I look, I ask myself "does that look weird somehow?" and if it doesn't, I keep staring until it does. I see everything through the lense of my fear of going crazy! Everything looks/feels weird because somehow I want everything to look/feel weird to confirm that I'm becoming schizophrenic. After thinking thoughts like this all the time + checking if they feel "true", you can imagine how crazy and weird I feel. I would choose any other theme of worry over this one. Even the suicide obsessions were easier to handle.

I don't know if this is Schiz OCD or actual prodromal psychosis. My symptoms are exactly like prodromal psychosis, but I know that much of these thoughts are just pseudo psychotic. They are intrusive and obsessive thoughts about my biggest fear. Thoughts that I would never want to think about.
Many times all the symptoms vanish if I'm doing something pleasant like having an intensive conversation or having a few drinks. I'm not sure if psychotic people feel that way. But then again I just can't be sure. What if I keep telling myself it's just OCD and end up having a full blown psychosis...
- vivid intrusive thoughts
- weird + random thoughts
- racing mind
- illogical fears
- weird perceptions and feelings
- problems with sleeping
- daily anxiety and worry

I've seen so many posts about fear of schizophrenia. Many times people tell the worriers they are probably fine. But no one is telling how to get over these fears. Have you experiemced anything like this? How can one be sure? How to eliminate all of this bs?

sheslostcontrol

30-09-17, 08:09

Hey! :)

You’ve described my experience to a t, really, I have experienced or still experience all of these on a daily basis. I feel with you, because it’s awfully unpleasant and makes you feel truly... ‘crazy’ at times.

I’d say that if your ‘psychosis’ began with panic attacks and you only built yourself up to more and more worry, it’s not a prodromal stage of anything. It’s just that - anxiety, obsessive thoughts etc. But only a professional can diagnose you - have you been to see one?

You can never be sure and that is what you have to accept. It’s what an obsessive mind hates, but we have to accept the uncertainty. If we were to worry about all the things that might happen to us at some point somewhere, we’d probably actually ‘go crazy’. :D

As for what helped me, cutting the googling definitely did. Also Citalopram stopped the panic attacks, the physical symptoms and maybe even a bit of the anxiety itself, like it’s much easier for me to accept the uncertainty now. And it’s also allowed me to go on about with my life like before, maybe with the weird thoughts, maybe with thoughts ‘what if I saw a person on that chair? I don’t want to see a person on that chair!’, but I just go on.

I hope you feel better soon! :)

Juustopallo

30-09-17, 08:50

Thanks for your reply!

How long have you been suffering with this? The scariest thing to me is that prodromal symptoms of schizophrenia can arise even 2-3 years before the actual psychotic episode. The most usual is just few months though. I've seen many professionals. One of them was worried that this would be the prodromal phase and sent me to further examinations. During the summer I met a psychologist weekly and had two meetings with a doctor. They both said there was not a reason to worry about psychosis since I was so reasonable and logical the whole time. I've gotten some new symptoms since then but to be totally honest, my ability to function normally has gotten a lot better since those days. There was a time (winter-spring) when I would just lie in bed thinking I'd probably die soon and no one could help me. My memory has gotten better and I'm studying in university again. Could a soon to be psychotic person do that? I don't know. Maybe not.

When I've been able to forget about my worries, most of the symptoms have also disappeared. I can do this when I'm out with my friends. One psychologist said that this is a great sign. Of course there's a temptation to be slightly drunk many times a week. What I've noticed however is that alcohol relieves the pain in short term but often the next day is much worse. No alcohol for me. Just friends and good time. Also often when I wake up, I'm symptom free. Then during the first minutes of the day I gradually remind myself of all these things. One by one the symptoms and worries come back.

sheslostcontrol

30-09-17, 10:52

Well, I’ve been suffering with this particular obsession since July. My acute anxiety began in April, though, but at first I was mainly concerned about my heart and physical health, only later on, thanks to a couple of intrusive thoughts, the concern has moved on to mental health. I used to spend like eight hours each day googling, just lying on the couch, worrying about what was going go happen to me, scared I’d never get better.

This whole ‘psychotic obsession’ has been a very rocky road for me, and currently I’m relapsing a bit after a few pretty good days due to family problems (my therapist has pointed out I seem to pick these obsessions up in order to cover my actual worries, which seems like a credible theory to me).

I’ve been seen by two psychiatrists (and I’m still being seen by one of them) and am currently seeing two therapists and neither of them even got the thought of me being psychotic. The therapist (a clinical psychologist) that was diagnosing me even said she saw no need to do the whole testing thing at all, that I was far from being psychotic and that my thinking was intact. The fact that I am under their care definitely calms me down because they have a lot more experience and knowledge than I do and I’m pretty sure they’d spot anything ‘out of the ordinary’.

Believe me, 9 out of 10 ‘soon-to-be-psychotic’ people would not willingly start studying at university again. And even if so, their performance would keep on getting worse and worse until they wouldn’t be able to keep going.

I think the ‘schiz-OCD’ is fairly common with young people (especially if you have derealisation/depersonalisation on top of everything - I do) and it will pass as you get older. And you’re in a better position - you’re male and already 23, men usually get it before 25 or so. I’m a female, 19, so you’re better off! :D

Have a great day. :)

Juustopallo

30-09-17, 13:03

Good to hear that you are in good hands! That theory sounds interesting! Are you in a psychodynamic therapy?

What I'm most afraid of is that these symptoms aren't just self suggestion of health anxiety but actual symptoms that I'm overlooking. I have weird feeling thoughts many times a day. Their content can be normal (say image of my dad) but they feel weird, distant and scary. Also when I'm stressed out I look for everything to feel or look weird and imagine scary creatures around me. I know they are product of my imagination, but I'm scared that one day they'll turn into actual hallucinations. They are so constant when I'm stressed about my condition. If i ignore the symptoms, they lessen. But I'm afraid to do so. I somehow feel that ny worry keeps me sane.

sheslostcontrol

30-09-17, 13:50

Yes, I’d say it could be considered to be psychodynamic therapy (the one with the other therapist I’d just call talk therapy with some CBT at times - not sure if it’s a ‘good’ idea to be seeing two therapists at once, but it helps me, so why not). It often revolves around my feelings and their origins since I rarely feel any strong emotions and even less often do I express them (funnily enough it never came off as distressing until I read about ‘emotional flattening’ related to schizophrenia or psychopathy).

I can relate to this as well - like I occasionally ask myself ‘but what if I stop worrying I’m schizophrenic, won’t it mean I am schizophrenic?’ You mustn’t be afraid to ignore the symptoms, though - you have to let them come and go, the more attention you give them, the stronger they will be. Anyway, what helps me is telling myself ‘your thoughts aren’t you - your behaviour is you’. Schizophrenia affects your thoughts and your behaviour. But intrusive thoughts are just that - thoughts.

Anyway, feel free to PM me if you want to talk. :)

AntsyVee

30-09-17, 22:15

Yes, you are just experiencing "Schiz OCD". As sheslostcontrol says, you're experiencing intrusive thoughts about having a disease that less than 1% of the population has. OCD is way more common ;)

Juustopallo

01-10-17, 13:19

Weird thing happened to me last night. I had many dreams about doctors and other people telling me I'm ok. In the dreams I was anxiety and obsession free since then. When I woke up in the morning, I felt very calm. Hope it was a premonition :D

AntsyVee

01-10-17, 20:08

Are you on any meds, pallo?

Juustopallo

01-10-17, 22:54

No I'm not. I really hope to get some help for these weird experiences but I'm little sceptical towards medication. So many serious side effects...

AntsyVee

01-10-17, 23:40

The side effects are usually temporary and go away after the first 6 to 8 weeks. One of my good friends with fears of harm OCD must take meds to make her intrusive thoughts go away. Although I don't have OCD, I have GAD and PTSD, meds help me with my thoughts as well. Many people with chronic conditions like ours use meds in addition to therapy to help cope. I think it would be work checking out for you as well. Don't knock it till you try it.

Juustopallo

02-10-17, 00:20

If this is just OCD, I know what to do and how to take steps towards recovery. Even without meds. But if this is something worse, I have no idea what to do. There is just no way to tell...

AntsyVee

02-10-17, 02:31

Well, it sounds as if it's just OCD to me. But even if it were worse, psychologically speaking, the treatments are the same: meds and therapy.

scareeed

02-10-17, 18:45

I have similar experiance,harm ocd, suicade fear and especially huge fear of psyhosis. Im analyzing all kind of psyhosis symptoms in me. Especially paranoid thoughts cuz i dont have any halucinations for now.I can get all sort of paranoid thoughts cuz i read about paranoid shizophrenia,but no metter if i think and know thouse thoughts are stupid,crazy,not real,i just cant calm down,they cause me a lot of fear and some times panic attacks. I dont know anymore what scares me contents of thoughts or that i have that kind of thoughts in the first place. I also have alcohol problems to,it really calms me down but next hangower day raises my anxiety to the roof. I really hope its just shiz ocd. Justopallo can u describe thouse steps you take to recover from ocd please ?

Juustopallo

03-10-17, 13:05

Of course bro!

Sorry to hear you're wrestling with this too! We'll get over it together!
The key is to fight your compulsions, not the obsessions. By trying to analyze and figure "it" out you actually make the obsessions worse. By engaging in compulsions, you feed the OCD. So you have to find out what your compulsions are and cut them out. Compulsions are any behaviors you do (in your mind or by acting) to relieve or run from your anxiety. Cutting out your compulsions will make you feel more anxious than ever but this is a good sign. By not responding to that anxiety, you'll start to create distance between yourself and your obsessions. In short you have to give yourself permission to have all the thoughts, images, urges, emotions... in the world while doing the things you really value. Always go towards anxiety, not away from it. Make sure you have something nice to do every single day. No matter what goes through your mind at the time.

It is possible to recover from ocd by doing this by yourself but help from a therapist could make it so much easier. And what you have to realize is that once you get better, you can't go back to your unhealthy ways. You don't go back to eating hamburgers after getting fit and expect to stay in good shape. You have to keep taking the steps. Recovery is doing the things that make you healthy, not the absence of anxiety and uncertainty. Relapse isn't something that falls out of the sky. It's a natural consequence of engaging in unhealthy compulsive behaviors. If your themes change, don't panic. It's still the same things that will make you healthy.

I can't post links to the forum but search for Psychology Today articles "How to Beat OCD Without Drugs (It's Simple But Not Easy!)" and "Mental Rituals in Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder"

+ search for Mark Freeman and Katie d'Ath in youtube

Bigboyuk

05-10-17, 10:53

Hi Jusstopallo nice post mate :) You have posted 10 posts and should be able to post a link here's a eg: www.nomorepanic.co.uk (http://www.nomorepanic.co.uk) Cheers

Juustopallo

12-10-17, 21:50

I've been feeling pretty good recently. One important aspect I've realized that anxiety is fighting internally against something. When anxious, I'm using so much energy on trying to push things away. It's like trying to push beach ball under the water. Soon it will surface anyway. So recently I've been asking myself "What am I trying to push away?" and then let myself feel whatever comes up. Often times the surfacing thought/emotion is much smaller that I'd previously thought. It gives such a relief.

Today I had a presentation about Carl Jung at the university (it went great btw!). I was feeling so nervous before hitting the stage. I got all my symptoms back in one night. I slept bad and started to look for auditory hallucinations again. It's almost funny to see how this whole fear around schiz is so tied with general stress. Now I know what triggered it so it's easier to handle and resist the compulsive checking for symptoms.

I also found a helpful article about anxiety and fear of going crazy if you're interested.
http://www.mindandsoulfoundation.org/Articles/486124/Mind_and_Soul/Articles/Anxiety_Fearing_Psychosis.aspx

I'd like to hear from you guys! How are you doing?

Alfiemoon

14-10-17, 10:35

I have just read through your posts and what you have described I could of wrote myself, its a awful fear but deep down I think we are super anxious, I am on meds but going to review them this week with my doctor. I totally understand where your coming from though. I found your link very helpful too, We will get over this fear together !

Juustopallo

17-10-17, 11:30

I spoke to my psychiatrist today. I told her even my craziest symptoms and she reassured that she has never gotten an impression that I would be psychotic. She also said that I've been seeing so many professionals that some of them would have noticed if I was actually going crazy. She said that when the person is tired and hypervigilant (looking for danger), he/she can experience all kinds of symptoms that sound crazy but aren't psychotic. But she also pointed out that these symptoms are a sign that something is wrong and that they should be dealt with in psychotherapy.

What I've learned is that the best way to deal with this stuff is to participate in real life. To see friends, visit family, study, work, excercise... not worry about it 24/7. Hopefully psychotherapy would help me get over this stupid phase. I'm really hopeful.

Juustopallo

18-10-17, 15:20

I talked to my friend who is writing her thesis. She told me that all the stress and information overload had made her feel very groggy. Today she found herself
- thinking it's friday already
- going to a meeting that actually takes place thursday, not today
- not being able to recognize a person she has met many times before
- feeling like she's on another planet and can't focus on anything since there are million thoughts on her head at the same time

All of these would have gotten me thinking that I've lost it. All of this happened to her because of stress. How powerful can stress + anxiety be? It made me realize that stressed out brain can come up with all sorts of weird symptoms and it still doesn't mean shit. She's perfectly healthy and even if having all this happen to her, she isn't worried about going crazy!

scareeed

26-10-17, 15:39

Hey justopallo how are u holding with shiz ocd? Any progres in overcoming it? Im still the same, cant get it out of my mind,always looking for shizophrenic symptoms in me. I have a huge fear that there is a small line between (fear we feel in ocd) and (fear that shizophrenic person feels with his delusion).

Duchesskitty

29-10-17, 01:36

MyNameIsTerry

29-10-17, 01:50

I just want to say, I used to work with people with psychosis and I’m going to be frank with you: if you truly were psychotic, you would not be worrying about it and able to rationalise it. Psychosis is defined by a split from reality, so hallucination, delusions, ideas of reference which are pretty set and someone believes truly. Some acutely psychotic would think these experiences completely reasonable and would not be saying “what if I have x experience”?
I was always told that if you can sit outside your thoughts etc and debate them, that isn’t psychosis! I think you have classic rumination, obsessive thoughts and intrusive thoughts!

You're absolutely right. NHS documentation found about such matters says excatly the same too. We've had a few members who have experienced psychosis or seen it in others and it's night & day compared to any worries on here about losing your mind.

It must be challenging to work with people experiencing it.

Fear of schizophrenia is so common in OCD it even got coined Schiz OCD by sufferers (there are plenty of similiar threads across NMP). But then anxiety is often about fear of losing control and this is just another way that manifests in us.

Juustopallo

29-10-17, 08:07

I'm not completely over it but it doesn't bother me anymore. I do get short moments of obsessive thinking but I've learned new ways to manage them. The more you engage in real life, the more you'll create distance to the obsession. One shouldn't however run from oneself, but do the important things while having the stuff in your head. One thing I realized that looking for solutions was and is the main fuel behind the obsession. As simple as it sounds, when you stop the compulsions (even the mental ones) the obsessions start to fade away.

You must give yourself permission to feel anything and have any thought, image, urge etc in your head. I'm not sure what your compulsions are but I tried to run away from my symptoms and ultimately myself to constant analyzing, google searches, podcasts, smoking, porn, and any activity that would be loud enough to make me not experience those thoughts. When I stopped doing that and let myself feel the negative thoughts, I started to realize it was increasingly easier for me to get out of the obsession by just living a normal life. The feeling would fade away on its own. And it did so easier/quicker every time. It's so hard to put it in words but you'll learn by yourself what I mean. The best way for me to get out of my head was to extrovert my senses by spending time with other people. Every time when I felt like I had to leave, go to the bathroom to secretly google about my symptoms, obsess etc, I would engage myself in conversations about anything but my ocd. It felt like I was cheating on myself but soon those urges to obsess started to cease.

One thing that was and is also helpful for me was to get known to Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell and other mythologists. Their philpsophy has helped me tremendously to see my suffering as a meaningful, almost heroic path to more complete and stronger self. What once used to be unreasonable suffering, now has a context and meaning. There are countless examples in myths all around the world of acrhetypal heroes getting over the necessary obstacles. These aren't stories about historical events, they are stories about us. I'd be happy to write more on the subject if anyone is interested. Of course these guys' philpsophy isn't for everyone since they talk a lot about religion, but as a spiritual guy I've found their work very helpful.

Hopefully you'll find these tips helpful! You'll get over this! It's just a matter of learning the necessary skills to overcome it! Step by step you'll find it to be easier I promise!

Juustopallo

12-11-17, 15:27

Hello friends! How are you doing?

vekiqf

16-11-17, 13:07

If you have a fear of developing Schiz result is that you will never get it ..more chances are that North Korea become state like Switzerland in one year compared to your risk to develop schiz...schiz people dont question their thoughts for them they are real...if they have hallucinations they hear them for real like you hear when somebody is talking to you...if they beleive that somebody is watching them they do and you cant convince them opposite....You have OCD and you must fight with it...if you want to take any meds best one for me was Zoloft..but CBT is most important..especially expose to the fear. When my obsession was on peak my doctor arranged that I go to mental hopital and talk with people with schiz...for start it was terrifying but after few visists I was much better...not only that I realized that I cant develop it but I also learnd that this mental problem is not something that will destroy my life and that it is managable with descent therapy and meds. I suggest that you apply on some group for support of this type of mental patients it will be hard but it will help you..

1st - People with OCD very often have this fear
2nd - If you have OCD you cant develop schiz as these are totally diferent disorders

I had this same fear but I managed to get ridd of it...now I have a fear of heart attack but OCD always find different obsession and very funny is that old fear looks very easy compared to new ones...

AntsyVee

17-11-17, 04:46