View Full Version : New Debate: Gun Attack Nevada
Hi this is so sad over 59 people killed and over 500 injured when a retired person in a hotel room started machine gun fire on people below enjoying a concert outside. Motive not known as yet in the hotel room 10 high powered guns and rifles were found. Folks no disrespect to those members who live in America but isn't it now time to have some gun laws in place?? One would think that Donald Trump would be in favour of this some how I don't think any thing will happen As always comments welcome Cheers
Absolutely horrific loss of lives and send condolences to families who lost loved ones.
Perhaps debate can happen once families have grieved. Must still be very raw...
Thanks for posting, Dave.
Yeah a bad day for all concerned even trump was moved by it Guns kill fact it's time now for things to change!! Hey np KK :) Cheers
bottleblond
02-10-17, 23:21
Yeah a bad day for all concerned even trump was moved by it Guns kill fact it's time now for things to change!! Hey np KK :) Cheers
Let's get one thing straight here!. Trump has compassion for no one and nothing. He is all for the gun culture in his country so he has no right to throw his pretentious compassion in any victims direction.
Trump is not against anyone carrying a gun so in my view, it's his bloody country now so the blood of these poor people lies in his hands as well as the shooters.
He's a war monger!. :mad:
Let's get one thing straight here!. Trump has compassion for no one and nothing. He is all for the gun culture in his country so he has no right to throw his pretentious compassion in any victims direction.
Trump is not against anyone carrying a gun so in my view, it's his bloody country now so the blood of these poor people lies in his hands as well as the shooters.
He's a war monger!. :mad:
okay I have to get back to Earth right now. I'll leave you here on the planet lunacy. I'll take this up later. At a more proper time. What's in that class you are holding?
bottleblond
02-10-17, 23:29
okay I have to get back to Earth right now. I'll leave you here on the planet lunacy. I'll take this up later. At a more proper time. What's in that class you are holding?
Lunacy?.
I don't "hold" classes Noivous!. Have you drifted from Uranus?. :winks:
....yes to yours so get ready
bottleblond
02-10-17, 23:40
:ohmy::roflmao:
LOL!!!! Can you meet me in London? :D
bottleblond
02-10-17, 23:58
WHAT?...That's a whole different country. :roflmao:
KK can meet you in London. I shall post him via the Tardis.
MyNameIsTerry
03-10-17, 00:45
Guns just make it easier to do more damage. The trend towards using vehicles shows it can be achieved with less traceable methods too. But in ate objects don't kill people, people do.
I'm in favour of gun control but it won't stop murder. They will just use knives or something else. It just makes it less prevalent and less extreme in terms of the damage that can be done before they are stopped.
Nothing to do with Trump as an individual, he goes where the popularity is (he was a Dem supporter not so long ago). They were killing under Obama too. And as president, a leader, a statement is expected whether they care or not. Give a statement, don't give a statement, either way someone will object no matter who is in charge.
A sad state of affairs. Removing guns would take time though, you don't want to hand the advantage to the criminals who will rob you with even less of a thought. It's much harder than it was to remove our guns.
I’m ready for an assault weapons ban on some of these high capacity, automatic rifles. I have no issue with gun ownership, but no one needs an AR-15 that shoots 50 bullets in a minute. You want protection, sure, have a regular gun, but no one needs to put 50 bullets in a home intruder. A gun like that is a weapon of mass destruction.
MyNameIsTerry
03-10-17, 05:04
I’m ready for an assault weapons ban on some of these high capacity, automatic rifles. I have no issue with gun ownership, but no one needs an AR-15 that shoots 50 bullets in a minute. You want protection, sure, have a regular gun, but no one needs to put 50 bullets in a home intruder. A gun like that is a weapon of mass destruction.
I agree.
Possibly a limit of the number of guns too?
Weren't older automatic weapons exempt from new laws? That also seems stupid to me. I wouldn't want to be on the end of a WWII Bren gun!
We have our own issues with weapon control too. It's easy to buy a load of combat knives or swords. You need a licence for an airgun but can purchase a far more deadly bow without one. :shrug: Crossbows are licenced though I seem to recall...Our law must think it's a problem with triggers.
In Australia, although laws differ from state to state, ordinary people can't carry any weapon (gun, knife, knuckledusters, bow and arrow, whatever) on them in public for any reason, including self-defence. It takes a while for people to realise that they are safer that way, but eventually they do.
Again, you can own a non-automatic gun, but you must have a reason other than self-defence (eg a farmer, sports shooter), and it has to be stored locked up and never carried on the body when not in use.
Of course, there are people who break the law, but people like me only read about it in news reports. Otherwise, I never see a gun for decades at a stretch.
In Australia, although laws differ from state to state, ordinary people can't carry any weapon (gun, knife, knuckledusters, bow and arrow, whatever) on them in public for any reason, including self-defence. It takes a while for people to realise that they are safer that way, but eventually they do.
Again, you can own a non-automatic gun, but you must have a reason other than self-defence (eg a farmer, sports shooter), and it has to be stored locked up and never carried on the body when not in use.
Of course, there are people who break the law, but people like me only read about it in news reports. Otherwise, I never see a gun for decades at a stretch. Yes pretty much the same in uk but in America the laws are a mess re guns only changes in the current laws will make a difference. apparently there is as many guns as there is people in America that one heck of a lot of guns any army would proud to have. Cheers for your comments hanshan
I'm in favor of banning all guns.
N.
---------- Post added at 13:58 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------
WHAT?...That's a whole different country. :roflmao:
KK can meet you in London. I shall post him via the Tardis.
I'm in NYC I can be there in 6 hours:). No! Not KK...no one wants to meet with the boss.
I’m ready for an assault weapons ban on some of these high capacity, automatic rifles. I have no issue with gun ownership, but no one needs an AR-15 that shoots 50 bullets in a minute. You want protection, sure, have a regular gun, but no one needs to put 50 bullets in a home intruder. A gun like that is a weapon of mass destruction.
Actually AntsyVee a semi-automatic weapon is exactly what one wants for self defense. Its not always "one" home intruder. Sometimes it's four.
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Btw the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting or target practice. It's about government tyranny.
MyNameIsTerry
04-10-17, 12:00
In Australia, although laws differ from state to state, ordinary people can't carry any weapon (gun, knife, knuckledusters, bow and arrow, whatever) on them in public for any reason, including self-defence. It takes a while for people to realise that they are safer that way, but eventually they do.
Again, you can own a non-automatic gun, but you must have a reason other than self-defence (eg a farmer, sports shooter), and it has to be stored locked up and never carried on the body when not in use.
Of course, there are people who break the law, but people like me only read about it in news reports. Otherwise, I never see a gun for decades at a stretch.
Same here, hanshan.
Making access to weapons always cuts down their use in crimes but there are limits. Whilst we could ban all hunting knives outside of professional use tomorrow those who carry will just switch to domestic knives (they already do).
Carrying a weapon for self defence increases the risk it will be used on you. But when you are in a dark area with 3 blokes about to beat you up because they don't like the way you looked at them, the mind veers more towards wanting something hard or sharp in my pocket as I would rather be facing a charge than being in a coma.
Our laws of self defence are really dodgy in the UK. Interpretation of reasonable force is shaky ground. But sometimes I think protection of family & self trumps laws and you have to prioritise it over some safe wig in a court room who's never been there disagreeing.
My dad quite often has an assortment of axes & machetes in his car boot since he still does some part time landscaping/gardening work. We've often joked about if the police pulled him over what they would make of that. :biggrin:
Trump is now saying this isn't the time to make amendments to the gun laws( I suspect it's because people need to grieve over lost ones) how ever lobbyists will be saying when?? Cheers
Hey BB good topic...one of my faves. Do you realize Chicago is among the most strict places in the USA in regards to gun laws. It is also the most deadly city in the country for deaths by shooting. Virtually all of those deaths were by illegal guns.
Another thing 2/3 of gun deaths in the nation are by suicide.
And I would say that alcohol related deaths far outpace gun deaths...either by affecting health or car accidents. Do the folks that want to ban guns also want to ban alcohol? It would save a lot of lives.
And I find it funny that many of the folks that want to take the guns out of the public's hands are at the same time referring to Trump as Hitler.
N.
---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:23 ----------
Op-ed from the Washington Post. Interesting findings on guns by a statistician.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/opinion-i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/ar-AAsRR7y
Hey BB good topic...
Agent N: Could we please refer to Bigboyuk as Comrade BBoy in future. Unfortunately there is only room for one BB, and even then she struggles with her boobages, knocking over complaints piles :lac:
Hey BB good topic...one of my faves. Do you realize Chicago is among the most strict places in the USA in regards to gun laws. It is also the most deadly city in the country for deaths by shooting. Virtually all of those deaths were by illegal guns.
Another thing 2/3 of gun deaths in the nation are by suicide.
And I would say that alcohol related deaths far outpace gun deaths...either by affecting health or car accidents. Do the folks that want to ban guns also want to ban alcohol? It would save a lot of lives.
And I find it funny that many of the folks that want to take the guns out of the public's hands are at the same time referring to Trump as Hitler.
N.
---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:23 ----------
Op-ed from the Washington Post. Interesting findings on guns by a statistician.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/opinion-i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/ar-AAsRR7y Hey thx Noivous np I like to get debates going as it takes my mind off my many problems and hopefully others too :)
No I didn't know that guess it varies from state to state? Well if those stats are correct then new laws must be put in place real soon. Did you see the news tonight the number of high powered (not guns) rifles was in that hotel room at least 30 :eek: sorry no one needs that many weapons to protect them selves! Think if Trump can make changes then he certainly can! Thx for (file://\\thxfor) your comments
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Agent N: Could we please refer to Bigboyuk as Comrade BBoy in future. Unfortunately there is only room for one BB, and even then she struggles with her boobages, knocking over complaints piles :lac:yeah I like that KK Thx :shades: Cheers
sorry no one needs that many weapons to protect them selves! Think if Trump can make changes then he certainly can!
That's true. There are always arguments of a single-shot firearm not being enough. "What if you're attacked by armed terrorists with machine guns?"
What next? Civilians with Uzis?
MyNameIsTerry
05-10-17, 02:01
Hey BB good topic...one of my faves. Do you realize Chicago is among the most strict places in the USA in regards to gun laws. It is also the most deadly city in the country for deaths by shooting. Virtually all of those deaths were by illegal guns.
Another thing 2/3 of gun deaths in the nation are by suicide.
And I would say that alcohol related deaths far outpace gun deaths...either by affecting health or car accidents. Do the folks that want to ban guns also want to ban alcohol? It would save a lot of lives.
And I find it funny that many of the folks that want to take the guns out of the public's hands are at the same time referring to Trump as Hitler.
N.
---------- Post added at 17:29 ---------- Previous post was at 17:23 ----------
Op-ed from the Washington Post. Interesting findings on guns by a statistician.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/opinion-i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/ar-AAsRR7y
The trouble is if you go by this rule then you need to scrap cars first, start scrapping foods, scrap sex (:ohmy:), etc. It's more a question of why you need it? Alcohol is something that is entwined with our culture so it's like trying to scrap religion in some ways but guns just don't feel quite the same to me.
But I appreciate there is a massive difference between the old UK gun culture and the US one. Hunting was never much of a thing here and most shooters are shotguns whether clay or live. We just never had people walking around with guns like you do. Our culture just didn't allow for it as we were no longer living so much outside of cities or in the wilderness.
What I question is whether the illegal trade in firearms is worse because guns are legal? If so, why? Why aren't the ATF doing their jobs? Where are the guns coming from? Mexico? Perhaps the ATF would be better utilised stopping guns rather than farting around about fireworks which seems like madness to me.
If the US banned guns in 30 years would they have a culture like ours? Would illegal guns be much less available?
And scrapping guns would likely help with suicide. It won't stop people but it brings it back to ease of use. If it doesn't then you need to question why, if it exists, there is a culture of suicide in the US that doesn't match to other countries.
---------- Post added at 01:57 ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 ----------
I'm in NYC I can be there in 6 hours:). No! Not KK...no one wants to meet with the boss.
You voted for Trump. Londoners would be waiting for you at the airport to protest you are allowed to enter our country waiving a petition at you.
Come up north of the M25 and people wouldn't give a toss.
---------- Post added at 02:01 ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 ----------
Trump is now saying this isn't the time to make amendments to the gun laws( I suspect it's because people need to grieve over lost ones) how ever lobbyists will be saying when?? Cheers
Politicians jumping to promote their policies off the back of tragic events should be viewed with disdain.
Anyway, there's a process 1) candle vigil, 2) handwringing 3) forget about it and 4) another shooting so rinse & repeat. At least this is how it seems as nothing seems to change.
It's a case of industry getting too powerful. Look at the fag companies when we wanted to scrap smoking? It got there in the end though. But now we have the monopoly issues with utilities - cap their profits and they just ship off jobs to India. Too much money allowing powderful people to dine with our leaders.
Agent N: Could we please refer to Bigboyuk as CApologies all BBoy in future. Unfortunately there is only room for one BB, and even then she struggles with her boobages, knocking over complaints piles :lac:
Oh! That's true! I didn't realize...yes of course I'll comply sir. Apologies all around.
Lucky complaint piles btw:winks:
The trouble is if you go by this rule then you need to scrap cars first, start scrapping foods, scrap sex (:ohmy:), etc. It's more a question of why you need it? Alcohol is something that is entwined with our culture so it's like trying to scrap religion in some ways but guns just don't feel quite the same to me.
But I appreciate there is a massive difference between the old UK gun culture and the US one. Hunting was never much of a thing here and most shooters are shotguns whether clay or live. We just never had people walking around with guns like you do. Our culture just didn't allow for it as we were no longer living so much outside of cities or in the wilderness.
What I question is whether the illegal trade in firearms is worse because guns are legal? If so, why? Why aren't the ATF doing their jobs? Where are the guns coming from? Mexico? Perhaps the ATF would be better utilised stopping guns rather than farting around about fireworks which seems like madness to me.
If the US banned guns in 30 years would they have a culture like ours? Would illegal guns be much less available?
And scrapping guns would likely help with suicide. It won't stop people but it brings it back to ease of use. If it doesn't then you need to question why, if it exists, there is a culture of suicide in the US that doesn't match to other countries.
---------- Post added at 01:57 ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 ----------
You voted for Trump. Londoners would be waiting for you at the airport to protest you are allowed to enter our country waiving a petition at you.
Come up north of the M25 and people wouldn't give a toss.
---------- Post added at 02:01 ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 ----------
Politicians jumping to promote their policies off the back of tragic events should be viewed with disdain.
Anyway, there's a process 1) candle vigil, 2) handwringing 3) forget about it and 4) another shooting so rinse & repeat. At least this is how it seems as nothing seems to change.
It's a case of industry getting too powerful. Look at the fag companies when we wanted to scrap smoking? It got there in the end though. But now we have the monopoly issues with utilities - cap their profits and they just ship off jobs to India. Too much money allowing powderful people to dine with our leaders.
Haha! True Terry...I might not even be allowed in. Maybe Parliament would take up a vote?
That's the thing, guns are actually part of our culture. There are 90 million legal gun owners in the USA. That's more than the entire population of the UK I think. It's 30 million more people than voted for either Trump or Clinton in the presidential election.
Guns are a reality in this world yet I don't hear anyone calling for gun control in any mid eastern country. Only in the US are people calling for gun control (i.e. people control). Like I've said in my mind either anybody can own guns or no one can own them...no one.
The government is just people. It's a large group of people. No more stable or sane than anyone outside of government and that includes cops, FBI, CIA or any other agent from the government. Why should one group be armed and one group be unarmed? It was one of the first moves of the 3rd Reich in the thirties. Disarm the public. Don't think that stuff can't happen again...even here...by communist/socialists...or worse.
The second amendment was created to guard against a tyrannical government having total control of the citizens. Those guys lived in tyranny under the British don't forget.
As a country we're still very young. But so far it has been a grand design for a nation...based on freedom...self rule...warts and all. I often wonder why so many people want to come here if it's so bad. People around the world seem to have no compunction in criticizing my country. I don't think you can look back on these boards and find me seriously criticizing another civilized country or it's leader. You might but I don't think so.
N.
The government is just people. It's a large group of people. No more stable or sane than anyone outside of government and that includes cops, FBI, CIA or any other agent from the government. Why should one group be armed and one group be unarmed? It was one of the first moves of the 3rd Reich in the thirties. Disarm the public. Don't think that stuff can't happen again...even here...by communist/socialists...or worse.
The second amendment was created to guard against a tyrannical government having total control of the citizens. Those guys lived in tyranny under the British don't forget.
N.
I know where you're coming from Noivous and I understand why the right to own guns is so important to patriotic Americans. It's literally a matter of life or death. The fifth columnists in your country are trying to use these events to take out the 2nd amendment, you probably saw that corporate whore Jimmy Kimmel cry fake tears.
The takeover of America by the cabal will not be complete until all nationalists are disarmed and have no way to fight back. It could well be that sometime in the future, this will be the last place still standing against the new world order.
I know where you're coming from Noivous and I understand why the right to own guns is so important to patriotic Americans. It's literally a matter of life or death. The fifth columnists in your country are trying to use these events to take out the 2nd amendment, you probably saw that corporate whore Jimmy Kimmel cry fake tears.
The takeover of America by the cabal will not be complete until all nationalists are disarmed and have no way to fight back. It could well be that sometime in the future, this will be the last place still standing against the new world order. Interesting I have no problems either apart from the fact robust laws must be in place :) The Guy was crazy really killing innocent people just enjoying a concert Cheers
So back in the nineties they nicknamed Nottingham shotingham because of all the drug dealers shooting at each other , you could buy a gun if you went to the right pub , cops where trigger happy back then as well ,had a gun pointed at me more than once for being in the wrong place , once the laws got tightened and semi automatics were banned it all quietend down its very rare you here of a shooting round here ( they do still stab each other though ) maybe America has gone too far to turn back ,making automatics illegal but selling kits to convert semi automatic to automatic still legal shows they weren't really going far enough , no civilian needs an automatic rifle our army are lucky to get hold of one .
You may think what the hell does this Brit who's never been to the USA know but I've seen nearly all of the Clint Eastwood films and I don't ever remember seeing Clint holding a semi to sort out four bad guys sometimes just a piece of wood ( hickory )
A good start would be to change the second to the right to arm bears and don't try to ban guns just ban bullets ( think outside the box )
Next time my idea on putting Trump and Kim in a cage with a bat each and let them have their own fight without involving thousands of innocent people .
I haven't slept in a verrrrry lonnnnggg time
MyNameIsTerry
06-10-17, 02:10
So back in the nineties they nicknamed Nottingham shotingham because of all the drug dealers shooting at each other , you could buy a gun if you went to the right pub , cops where trigger happy back then as well ,had a gun pointed at me more than once for being in the wrong place , once the laws got tightened and semi automatics were banned it all quietend down its very rare you here of a shooting round here ( they do still stab each other though ) maybe America has gone too far to turn back ,making automatics illegal but selling kits to convert semi automatic to automatic still legal shows they weren't really going far enough , no civilian needs an automatic rifle our army are lucky to get hold of one .
You may think what the hell does this Brit who's never been to the USA know but I've seen nearly all of the Clint Eastwood films and I don't ever remember seeing Clint holding a semi to sort out four bad guys sometimes just a piece of wood ( hickory )
A good start would be to change the second to the right to arm bears and don't try to ban guns just ban bullets ( think outside the box )
Next time my idea on putting Trump and Kim in a cage with a bat each and let them have their own fight without involving thousands of innocent people .
I haven't slept in a verrrrry lonnnnggg time
:roflmao: That's a very "Crocodile Dundee" way of resolving it for the bears, if you get the reference? :D
I thought converting semi to full with a kit was illegal in the US?
---------- Post added at 02:10 ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 ----------
Haha! True Terry...I might not even be allowed in. Maybe Parliament would take up a vote?
That's the thing, guns are actually part of our culture. There are 90 million legal gun owners in the USA. That's more than the entire population of the UK I think. It's 30 million more people than voted for either Trump or Clinton in the presidential election.
Guns are a reality in this world yet I don't hear anyone calling for gun control in any mid eastern country. Only in the US are people calling for gun control (i.e. people control). Like I've said in my mind either anybody can own guns or no one can own them...no one.
The government is just people. It's a large group of people. No more stable or sane than anyone outside of government and that includes cops, FBI, CIA or any other agent from the government. Why should one group be armed and one group be unarmed? It was one of the first moves of the 3rd Reich in the thirties. Disarm the public. Don't think that stuff can't happen again...even here...by communist/socialists...or worse.
The second amendment was created to guard against a tyrannical government having total control of the citizens. Those guys lived in tyranny under the British don't forget.
As a country we're still very young. But so far it has been a grand design for a nation...based on freedom...self rule...warts and all. I often wonder why so many people want to come here if it's so bad. People around the world seem to have no compunction in criticizing my country. I don't think you can look back on these boards and find me seriously criticizing another civilized country or it's leader. You might but I don't think so.
N.
It's more bomb control in the ME, N? :winks: I know what you mean but I think there is this view of the US being the head of the free world and so you get judged by a different standard. Just look at women marching all round the world against Trump being appointed when there are plenty of countries where women are treated like utter dirt (in recent news Saudi Arabia now allows women to drive, presumably as long as their appropriate men authorise it first, those progressive types that they are :doh:).
The US gets a lot of stick, that's true. Part of the problem might be because the US likes going around telling others how to be? And the far left have real problems with the US dating back a long way yet they love Russia. But I think it's more a criticism of your politicians, not the people. It can be annoying seeing foreign commentors sneering at your country but it's usually out of ignorance or doesn't take into account their own country's issues (which we are all probably guilty of doing at some point).
There will always be some sneering at others. They will likely also sneer at their own people who they view as less intelligent or enlightened. I tend to just think of them as loons and laugh at them.
Whatever happens, there need to be better controls on how accessible your guns are. Whilst a high % of legal gun owners might be highly responsible about control of their weapons, I'm more concerned about the illegal ones were 99.9% of those will be the total opposite.
I also think that old laws need to adjust to changes in society. Amendments set to protect the populace with militias is part of your past. It needs to be there for a different reason now or not there at all. Remember, we had laws enabling us to shoot a Scot crossing the border at some point in history but that law is largely irrelent now (I say irrelevant as Nicola Sturgeon & Al Salmond come to mind :whistles:)
We have plenty of violence in the UK. God, imagine the shootings at football matches if we had lots of guns? :scared15: It's much harder to get a gun now whereas before many were coming back from wars, squadies (which raised another stupid issue with the MoD lack of control), etc. They are still out there but having a sea border helps keep it down.
On the issue of guns Americans seem to be polarised so it's going to take a brave government to change it and gain some chunks of voters whilst losing others. I doubt it helps being a two party country either.
In future years you may find less guns in the hands of law enforcement like ours. I think there is a case for a number of law enforcement always having access, since criminals always do, but law enforcement will always have it's bad apples so I understand what you mean.
At least if the zombies attack you will all be ready! :yesyes:
Like you say, your country is still young. I don't think we would worry about returns to extremist governments in Europe (although Spain must be opening a few eyes and rasiing some eyebrows at the moment) outside of the eastern European regions. The checks & balances would need to go before we start to worry about those possibilities. Civil wars are always the dirtiest and we all easily accessible to each other in this country so it would be impossible to protect soft targets from the mob. Hopefully those days are over for us as we have moved on. Who knows? They would need a much bigger army though.
The land of opportunity. Like here, the land of benefits. It's a lot better than where they are coming from most of the time. Perhaps it;s more the privaleged homegrown that complain? Being English means you are supposed to feel guilt for it. Being Welsh, Scottish, NI, etc you can feel patriotic. One of the daft things that has come from looking back at history and feling shame for how peopel of the time acted...when in that world so was everyone else.
I think there is always a chance any nation can desend into totalitarian rule. Human nature hasn't changed since the dawn of time and never will. An armed citizenry is the greatest defense against that ever happening.
MyNameIsTerry
06-10-17, 05:27
It's one reason no one wants to invade the US either! (well, they do it stealthily these days :winks:)
What I would like to know is why does the US seem to have a problem with these spree killings? What is driving them? I appreciate they will differ as some of them are people that would be likely spending their lives in prison at some point for other reasons and then you have the people who experience severe psychotic breaks.
YouTube alters search algorithm over fake Las Vegas conspiracy videos
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/06/youtube-alters-search-algorithm-over-fake-las-vegas-conspiracy-videos
A “Las Vegas shooting” search on Thursday, after the algorithmic change had taken place, produced substantially more reputable videos, mostly from mainstream news sources.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSfjkjksWvO8NF5WwOgmpPtJyyaYLSea DL8Zi-5aaJC4XKJPw8F
Um...so what if something truly is a fake event or a false narrative...like lets say...oh I don't know...a video causing an attack on a US embassy in Benghazi...or something like that...
---------- Post added at 10:34 ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 ----------
Here's a theory I have. The LV shooter is actually a gun control nut. I think that is very plausible.
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American Hunters – The World’s Largest Army
Published November 4, 2013
Thoughts on Hunters, this is an interesting slant on things.* The world’s largest army; America’s hunters!* I had never thought about this, but a blogger added up the deer license sales in just a handful of states and arrived at a striking conclusion:
There were over 600,000 hunters this season in the state of Wisconsin.* Allow me to restate that number: 600,000.* Over the last several months, Wisconsin’s hunters became the eighth largest army in the world:* more men in arms than in Iran.* More than France and Germany combined.* These men and women deployed to the woods of a single American state, Wisconsin, to hunt with firearms, and no one was killed.
That number pales in comparison to the 750,000 who hunted the woods of Pennsylvania and Michigan’s 700,000 hunters, all of whom have now returned home safely.* Toss in a quarter million hunters in West Virginia and it literally establishes the fact that the hunters of those four states alone would comprise the largest army in the world.* And then add in the total number of hunters in the other 46 states.* It’s millions more.
The point?* America will forever be safe from foreign invasion with that kind of home-grown firepower.* Hunting, it’s not just a way to fill the freezer; it’s a matter of national security.* That’s why all enemies, foreign and domestic, want to see us disarmed.* Food for thought, when next we consider gun control.
Overall it’s true, so if we disregard some assumptions that hunters don’t possess the same skills as soldiers, the question would still remain, what army of 2 million would want to face 30, 40, 50 million armed citizens?* For the sake of our freedom, don’t ever allow gun control or confiscation of guns.
---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 ----------
It's one reason no one wants to invade the US either! (well they do it stealthily these days :winks:)
What I would like to know is why does the US seem to h. ave a problem with these spree killings? What is driving them? I apprec. iate they will differ as some of them are people that would be likely spending their lives in prison at some point for other reasons and then you have the people who experience severe psychotic breaks.
The first "spree killer" in the US was Starkweather I believe. Not to get nit picky but I'm not sure this is classified as a spree killing. But I take your point and it's a good question. Mass shootings are very rare but in recent years seem to be on the rise. Why? Could it be that with the advent of technology these would be lunatics can now get the attention they crave on a massive scale almost instantly? I think that's part of it.
But mass killings are nothing new...all the way back to Herod. Believe it or not I think the biggest mass killing at a school in the U.S. in 1927 - a madman with explosives in Michigan.
Guns, knives, bombs, trucks don't kill. People do.
N.
Again interesting comments Noivous but again there must be some rules in place like should mentally ill people in any country be allowed to carry a single gun? No in my mind no way . And yet 600,000 wisconians (hope that is correct) took to the woods and no one was killed which is :cool:. Do you own a gun or guns? Rules are there to protect innocent people who are minding their own business then shot at for no reason that's why rules must be put in place. Ok a question at what age can a American own a gun? I am going to guess and say 16 :eek: also the number of guns in ones possession mustn't be limitless either, sorry just my views and I sure some parents etc of those 50 people shot at that open air concert would agree on what I am saying may be not all but some for sure. Cheers
Bigby...there are thousands of gun laws on the books right now. Laws that don't allow certain known individuals to legally purchase a gun. Most of them are just feel good laws that will never stop a maniac from committing mayhem. Nor will they stop any bad guys from gaining guns.
What do you tell the woman who's ex has just been released from prison bent on doing irreparable harm to her and her 2 young children? She can't have a weapon to protect herself? What do you tell the young man who's home when 3 home invaders break in - one armed with a knife and the other two armed with brass knuckles - you can't have a weapon to protect your home and family? That happened earlier this year. All 3 intruders are dead thanks to an AR15. Too bad for them but thank goodness he had it.
I've always said sometimes violence is the price of freedom. But I'll still take freedom every time.
N.
---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:34 ----------
...a government of the people, by the people, and for the people...that is how this nation is governed. I'm not sure those outside of the USA get the concept of those beautiful words. (there are many here that don't either btw). It means "We the People" are the boss not the politicians. The 2nd Amendment is going to keep it that way. If we lose the 2nd Amendment this grand experiment is over.
N.
So flip side of your argument to have arms for home protection, the women armed to protect herself maybe not familiar with guns leaves it loaded waiting for the ex to turn up , the kids and who have been brought up playing with toy guns like over here get hold of the gun and one kid is dead ( it happens ) , now a case over here a farmer wakes to find two burglars in his run down farm house that looks derelict he runs down stairs with a shot gun and they run for it , he shoots a 16 year old in the back killing him , right or wrong ? Was that self defence or execution for trying to rob him ?
Violence always breeds violence, no one would ever be daft enough to send an army to America that threat will come from the sky's and no amount of hunters will stop that .
We are dammed if we do dammed if we don't so I'll carry on building my bunker out of marshmallows and donuts , mmmmmm dooonuts :D
Every woman I know who owns a gun is very adept at handling it. Every bit as good as men. As for the 16 year old burglar...it's too bad but as soon as he entered that house what ever happens to him is on him.
Violence always breeds violence is a nice cliche but it isn't true. Often times violence is ended by violence.
But we're getting off track a little. as I said the Second Amendment's sole purpose was to deter government tyranny...which it has...so far.
Mmm...marshmallow bunker. I'm in!:)
N.
---------- Post added at 00:37 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------
Hey Buster - Check this out. I don't expect to change your mind and you won't change mine but you could probably learn a little something about gun owners in America from it. It's a Maryland State Police Commander talking about gun owners.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdUaPDiW-GY
MyNameIsTerry
07-10-17, 02:27
If a burglar breaks in and you come down with a gun, he flees and you chase him across the garden and pump him full of lead in the back...surely that's murder? You are not in any danger or fear for your life.
That's like what happened in the case of the farmer Buster mentioned. He could have fired in the air or waved the gun & shouted. They had left and he was in no immediate danger at the end. But that case involved a more sustained level of problems between him and the people (gypsies?) that had been bothering him. He was jailed, rightly.
If someone breaks into my house and I punch him unconscious - I'm likely going to be ok with a self defence case (I say likely because self defence is so poorly understood in the UK that until you get in a courtroom, you really don't know as the police & lawyers seem to all disagree with each other). But if I then proceed to kick 7 bells out of him on the floor...that's no self defence.
The trouble is, we don't live in this nice Queensbury Rules world that the law expects. If some bloke is on the floor, he's going to get a kicking off me rather than him get up and do what I was ok defending myself about before. It's not a boxing ring with the opponent getting up to start again - he's going down, and he's staying down until the plods can be ar5ed to turn up...which is often when they can ar5ed these days.
---------- Post added at 02:27 ---------- Previous post was at 02:22 ----------
So flip side of your argument to have arms for home protection, the women armed to protect herself maybe not familiar with guns leaves it loaded waiting for the ex to turn up , the kids and who have been brought up playing with toy guns like over here get hold of the gun and one kid is dead
Our laws prevent this now. Guns in locked cabinet and ammo in a separate place. No use for self defence though.
If we ever had guns there would have to be rules stating they were kept in a secure place away from kids. Not ideal for defence if you have to go to a cabinet to retrieve a gun.
There's a better way to prevent crime, if they can crack how to make it work for self defence only. All trousers fitted with a groin battery pack that discharges a high charge into the gonad region. :yesyes:
Fair enough. Certainly each case is different. What happened to the farmer? And even though the farmer is culpable for his actions the young burglar surely bears some responsibility for what happened to him. When you invade a person's home you gotta know anything can happen. Home invasion is a very serious crime here and for good reason. But I'd like to know what happened to the farmer.
We also have tons of rules and regulations in regards to gun transportation and storage.
But again the 2nd Amendment is about curtailing government tyranny. That's it.
N.
MyNameIsTerry
07-10-17, 15:26
Fair enough. Certainly each case is different. What happened to the farmer? And even though the farmer is culpable for his actions the young burglar surely bears some responsibility for what happened to him. When you invade a person's home you gotta know anything can happen. Home invasion is a very serious crime here and for good reason. But I'd like to know what happened to the farmer.
We also have tons of rules and regulations in regards to gun transportation and storage.
But again the 2nd Amendment is about curtailing government tyranny. That's it.
N.
You can read about him here, N:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)
Note he was an active National Front member. His uncle was one of the founders. The NF were racist thugs who committed violent acts all over the UK. The old image of the bomber jacketed skin head with swastika tattoos might spring to mind.
He got off because he got a mental heath diagnosis and some sympathetic judges. It was a poor life term, as is often the case in the UK where life often doesn't mean life.
The robbers were scumbags, but so was the shooter in this case. He had previous form too. This guy really isn't a home invader case with a normal citizen.
Funny how all those mental health conditions popped up so late along, eh? Oscar Pistorious springs to mind there :winks:
---------- Post added at 15:26 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------
But again the 2nd Amendment is about curtailing government tyranny. That's it.
N.
Then it surely has no basis in self defence outside of against the state/government?
How does that translate into carrying firearms for self defence or using them to defend your home in a burglary? Is it true to say the 2nd Amendment has been hijacked for this purpose?
To me, there is a different argument between the two and the same for how one could be seen to be needed now whereas the other relies on very extreme circumstances by comparison.
Hunting doesn't even figure in that. There are valid reasons for animal control but I'm otherwise against hunting. Hunting for pleasure, I would be happy to see hunting hunters for pleasure. Being an animal lover, I would care as much for hunters as I would for the welfare of a criminal breaking into my house.
Your home invasion is worse than ours because of the guns and drugs problems. I think your drug problems are worse than ours. But we face beatings and ever now & again a story crops up of a pensioner beaten black & blue by these thugs (not that a gun may have helped them as they were quite frail so would be very scared).
Although the Catalon's might have faced less of a government ordered beating if they had to thunk twice about getting fired at. :winks:
Terry I put practically zero stock in Wikipedia. I'll dig it up somewhere else. Thanks.
Right. The right to personal self defense is another issue. The 2nd Amendment allows Americans to own guns to maintain a free state. Everyone has a right to defend themselves whether with a gun a knife or a fist, however. Are you suggesting one can defend themselves...just not with a gun?
Terry I put practically zero stock in Wikipedia. I'll dig it up somewhere else. Thanks.
Good call Noivous! Wikipedia can't be relied on for truthful information, it's very biased and pushes your towards specific agendas. It's OK for general stuff but for serious research on the more "controversial" topics you need to look elsewhere. In any case, can you really trust this guy with the truth?
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/can-i-have-like-20-bucks-wikipedia.jpg
Haaa!! So true!
A lesson for all about Wikipedia by a real journalist.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU
MyNameIsTerry
07-10-17, 16:17
Terry I put practically zero stock in Wikipedia. I'll dig it up somewhere else. Thanks.
Right. The right to personal self defense is another issue. The 2nd Amendment allows Americans to own guns to maintain a free state. Everyone has a right to defend themselves whether with a gun a knife or a fist, however. Are you suggesting one can defend themselves...just not with a gun?
It was a national case here, N. You will find it all over the nationals. That's why I gave the Wiki, it saves reading half a dozen sites. He wasn't a law abiding citizen by a long way.
No, I'm suggesting those claiming it has anything to do with the 2nd Amendment are falsely using it based in what you just clarified about it.
As far as I'm concerned guns are not for self defence but that's within the UK. So few criminals have access to them that they aren't needed. It's different for your country.
---------- Post added at 16:17 ---------- Previous post was at 16:12 ----------
Good call Noivous! Wikipedia can't be relied on for truthful information, it's very biased and pushes your towards specific agendas. It's OK for general stuff but for serious research on the more "controversial" topics you need to look elsewhere. In any case, can you really trust this guy with the truth?
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/can-i-have-like-20-bucks-wikipedia.jpg
So are you saying they are wrong in this case? Like I said, it's a well established case and for the purpose of saving time. I would also question how someone outside of the UK is going to navigate our left & right wing media outlets.
Wiki has errors and it's open to abuse but feel free to fact check the guys case, it's all public record They have their agenda like anyone else but dismissing everything is no better in my opinion.
So are you saying they are wrong in this case?
No Terry, I don't know anything about this case. My post was about Wikipedia in general.
MyNameIsTerry
07-10-17, 16:42
Some info on other cases:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20398432
It's quite obvious why these burglary victims were cleared (thankfully). Being tied up isn't uncommon by invaders. Compare that a NF illegal gun possessing shooting in the back. Night & day. But I can understand how in the heat of the moment you are terrified and shoot at someone running away who is still in your house.
This case is more complicated to me:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munir_Hussain_and_victims%27_rights
Imagine how angry you would be experiencing that in your home? If the injuries they inflicted had been less I wonder if this would have been a suspended sentence case to let him off whilst trying to maintain that you can't step over the line into vigilantism? I could see myself doing exactly what he did.
Just punching someone in a fight can do enough damage to see you inside for years even though it was just the same thing seen in fights across the country daily or even in schools. If someone hits the pavement badly you can end up on a man slaughter charge. That's what this case is like to me, too much damage inflicted for the court to brush under the carpet as human rights group & the media would just start whipping it up.
---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:37 ----------
No Terry, I don't know anything about this case. My post was about Wikipedia in general.
The whole concept of people updating a site always seems badly flawed. They certainly got hammered over Daily Mail links.
I would agree with you about being careful with it. I use it for mental health as a reference point to get to the papers behind it and see what is really said. Even then it depends on the update being agreed as many medical studies are tossed aside.
I think I would be very skeptical about it over politics, especially more current stuff. Big money in driving opinion as Google show.
Terry - It's very short and to the point...I'm sure by design. It's clear.
The Second Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791. It reads:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The Second Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791. It reads:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Crikes, Agent N! Modern weaponry and world has moved on a bit since 1791....I mean, they used cannons to crack walnuts in those days :wacko:
That's an old specious argument my friend. Doesn't matter. It's about government tyranny not the caliber of gun.
You mean in the days of unstable, corrupt governments, constant runs on the banks and the Wild West? Damn right you'd need a gun :roflmao:
Now stop getting all hot and bothered under your collar, Noi :lac:
I think there's a racial angle to this whole issue as well, as white Americans are increasingly becoming a minority they're worried that in the case of a race war, they'll need to be heavily armed in order to protect themselves.
Looking at the violence coming from groups like Black Lives Matter and Antifa, this line of thinking is understandable.
Personally, I think this guy has the right idea..
http://quotespictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/i-have-very-strict-gun-control-policy-if-theres-a-gun-around-i-want-to-be-in-control-of-it.jpg
Yah at last Clint Eastwood makes an appearance .
I did take the time to watch the clips and I do appreciate that if you ban all guns ( not ever going to happen ) only the law abiding peeps will give them up the naughty ones will hang on to them , not good , so problem would still be the type of firepower needed by your average joe and I wasn't saying women can't handle guns I was just referring to your exemple , so correct me if I'm wrong but automatics are illegal but a bump stock to convert a semi to rapid fire is sold legally pretty sure that's what the lv shooter had , now a hand gun or shot gun would be ample to stop any junky from stealing your playboy collection , so why keep selling these conversions? Had the psycho in the hotel had a hand gun or shot gun he would have had to be a hell of a lot closer which would have meant he'd be stopped a lot quicker , there is still the chance he'd just carry a bomb or drive a truck you can't reason with crazy , my other gripe and again I may be wrong but is it the case only businesses have to do a check on a gun buyer , if it's sold privately does the seller have to check or can they sell to anyone ? Ooh another point this ones more of a question is any training compulsory for a first time gun buyer or could a chap ( or chapess ) just get a permit and buy a gun ?
Just a couple of wiki stats , 6000 people were killed mistakenly putting their hand guns to their ears instead of their cell phones , another 1000 were shot while poking out belly button fluff with a gun barrel , and 10000 guns had to be retrieved from peoples butts after they accidentally sat on them while naked and covered in baby oil , it's on the net so it must be true . Yoall have a nice day now ya here :D
:roflmao:
Cows with guns :D.
MyNameIsTerry
08-10-17, 04:27
Terry - It's very short and to the point...I'm sure by design. It's clear.
The Second Amendment was adopted on December 15, 1791. It reads:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Being so simple also makes it open to interpretation. For instance, at the time everyone had a gun because they were as intergral to life as clothes. You hunted, you had to keep predators away from your livestock and there were other forms of criminal/invaders.
But does this still hold in modern society? Now the amendment is obviously there to allow the state to fight a federal government, in line with how your states ceded power to a federal government rather than the other way like ours have worked.
So...a modern interpretation, if you created that amendment now, could be that central gun points are placed throughout a territory to allow a militia to be called to them to be armed. It's only the same as how the National Guard have to report to access their weapons in a way?
Why does that amendment mean guns have to be kept in the hands of anyone in the state, which would also include those who intend to fight the state as they agree with the federal government?
Is it just that it was created at a different time when this was the norm?
Then if this was done, hunting licences would allow for a small number of single shot rifles. It wouldn't do anything for self defence but then that amendment has no say in self defence as said weapons are only for the purpose of a state called militia to defend it.
---------- Post added at 04:27 ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 ----------
so correct me if I'm wrong but automatics are illegal but a bump stock to convert a semi to rapid fire is sold legally pretty sure that's what the lv shooter had , now a hand gun or shot gun would be ample to stop any junky from stealing your playboy collection , so why keep selling these conversions?
One side could argue that the restriction of automatic weapons puts the state militia at a disadvantage to the federal troops. A modern way to erode the 2nd Amendment?
But then the other side could argue the amendent made no stipulation what "arms" means. Interpret how you will. At the time it was all they needed. But now the army have tanks, aircraft, etc.
Surely conversion kits are illegal? What's the point otherwise?
We have a law on carrying knives that (not considering other laws about use in self defence or acceptable carrying judgements made by police) that says we can legally can a non locking blade of no more than 3 inches in blade length. Our courts wouldn't allow someone to test that with a seperately purchased blade extending kit or locking mechanism. It would now be covered as a weapon as our law happily considers improvised weapons...so adding spikes to your toaster and mounting it on the end of a sweeping brush really won't be alllowed :D
I'll wait for confirmation on wether conversions are a legal buy in the states Terence but then look at our laws you can buy everything to grow cannabis legally but if you grow it it's illlegal and picking and eating magic mushrooms is ok but if you dry them out it makes them illegal , not all laws are thought through too well .:D
MyNameIsTerry
08-10-17, 13:50
I'll wait for confirmation on wether conversions are a legal buy in the states Terence but then look at our laws you can buy everything to grow cannabis legally but if you grow it it's illlegal and picking and eating magic mushrooms is ok but if you dry them out it makes them illegal , not all laws are thought through too well .:D
Don't forget B&Q bomb making kits, MrB :biggrin:
A high velocity Geranium up the bottom might please some though :winks:
I've said it before, but it bears repeating: in Australia an ordinary person does not have the right to possess or carry a weapon for the purposes of self-defence. This effectively means no carried knives or handguns owned apart from specialised sporting pistols, which must be kept locked up and only used at a shooting range. Obviously, there are plenty of knives, screwdrivers, chisels etc around the house that could be used as weapons, but that is not their intended purpose. I understand that the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental part of US culture, but Australians think differently. I honestly feel safer not owning a gun in Australia, and I would feel very unsafe visiting the US because of guns - in fact, I will probably never go there for that reason.
Even with all the weaponry privately owned in the US, it would not be much use against an invading army which had artillery, tanks, air support and months' supply of ammunition. I'm sure there are people with a shed full of ammunition, but at the rate assault weapons can fire clips, I imagine most people would exhaust their supply quite quickly in a combat situation. But there is no credible threat of an invasion of the US. It would most likely need to be seaborne at least in part, and just think of the logistics involved. The reality is that in the past hundred years, it's the United States that has been the country most consistently able to launch invasions in distant lands with which it shares no borders.
A quick check of the internet tells me that there are approximately 1,000 accidental hunting shootings each year in the US and Canada, of which around 100 are fatal. That doesn't include accidental weapon discharges and near misses where no-one is hurt - so it's not really so safe.
Finally, the fact that two thirds of gun fatalities are self-inflicted really heightens the fact that gun-control is part of a broader public health issue.
MyNameIsTerry
08-10-17, 14:04
Speaking of improvised weaponry, Buster, and with Halloween approaching it gives me an excuse to put up Bottom and their cattle prod...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRj2qIR1_G3jsWZ0ZGF1WVRbESNFq7bZ j6osP4IYhkjdsav-vEcDQ
Trick or treat :roflmao:
Speaking of improvised weaponry, Buster, and with Halloween approaching it gives me an excuse to put up Bottom and their cattle prod...
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRj2qIR1_G3jsWZ0ZGF1WVRbESNFq7bZ j6osP4IYhkjdsav-vEcDQ
Trick or treat :roflmao:
But what about the good old bottom frying pan scene mindless violence at its funniest so wrong that it's right , I'm already eyeing up pumpkins trying to come up with a new one for this year :D
https://i.imgur.com/dF0xjzi.gif
Oh I do miss Rick mayal , as a teen I'd watch the young ones over and over , laughing has got to be better than shooting each other eh ? :D:roflmao:
Oh I do miss Rick mayal , as a teen I'd watch the young ones over and over , laughing has got to be better than shooting each other eh ? :D:roflmao:
His cameos as Lord Flashheart in Blackadder were great too.
MyNameIsTerry
09-10-17, 01:52
But what about the good old bottom frying pan scene mindless violence at its funniest so wrong that it's right , I'm already eyeing up pumpkins trying to come up with a new one for this year :D
There's always Eddies's exploding carrots. :yesyes:
The frying pan got plenty of use as did the fridge door.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a5/59/6e/a5596e953437fa023748bd7d00e3149f.gif
MyNameIsTerry
09-10-17, 08:33
I've said it before, but it bears repeating: in Australia an ordinary person does not have the right to possess or carry a weapon for the purposes of self-defence. This effectively means no carried knives or handguns owned apart from specialised sporting pistols, which must be kept locked up and only used at a shooting range. Obviously, there are plenty of knives, screwdrivers, chisels etc around the house that could be used as weapons, but that is not their intended purpose. I understand that the 2nd Amendment is a fundamental part of US culture, but Australians think differently. I honestly feel safer not owning a gun in Australia, and I would feel very unsafe visiting the US because of guns - in fact, I will probably never go there for that reason.
Even with all the weaponry privately owned in the US, it would not be much use against an invading army which had artillery, tanks, air support and months' supply of ammunition. I'm sure there are people with a shed full of ammunition, but at the rate assault weapons can fire clips, I imagine most people would exhaust their supply quite quickly in a combat situation. But there is no credible threat of an invasion of the US. It would most likely need to be seaborne at least in part, and just think of the logistics involved. The reality is that in the past hundred years, it's the United States that has been the country most consistently able to launch invasions in distant lands with which it shares no borders.
A quick check of the internet tells me that there are approximately 1,000 accidental hunting shootings each year in the US and Canada, of which around 100 are fatal. That doesn't include accidental weapon discharges and near misses where no-one is hurt - so it's not really so safe.
Finally, the fact that two thirds of gun fatalities are self-inflicted really heightens the fact that gun-control is part of a broader public health issue.
Same here, hanshan. Carrying a weapon for self defence just means you are treated the same as if you were carrying it to intentionally harm others.
If you have one in the car it differs. For instance, having a kit in the boot with a blade in will likely be dismissed by police but if it's in the door pockets or glove box then it's not their for rescue.
Carrying weapons in a boot can be acceptable where travelling to a place where they are to be used legally. For instance, my GF is a member of an archery club so carries bow & arrows on certain nights. My dad is still doing some gardening work so will have an axe or machete in the boot. Someone working as a ranger of some sort may carry an air rifle in the boot (but not uncovered in the car as that suggests use outside of their work). Martial arts instructors or pupils transporting sparring weapons on their way to classes will be fine in a boot if they can prove where they are going if asked.
There will also be responsibilities when travelling even with a valid gun licence e.g. shotguns not on car back seats.
In the home it's all about "reasonable force" whether you hit someone with a TV or stab them with a knife.
As far as US hunting accidents go I'm less concerned. It's just a sporting safety issue and points to a need to address that rather be an issue for society like crime. Even if guns were banned, these people would still get licences and what prevents those same accidents?
Suicide is an interesting one. Guns are easy to reach for but would taking them away just mean they reach for a knife instead? If so, guns aren't a consideration and using suicide as evidence should be disregarded as a bit of a bandwagon by those less concerned with health and more interested in using it to achieve their aims.
We had a control bought in that restricted sale of paracetamol to two packs only per purchase. I wonder how effective that is when you can buy 500 more if you go back to the supermarket shelf then automated check out. Or you just go to other supermarkets & pharmacies, corner shops, etc.
I guess the question is whether making it less spontaneous reduces the likelihood of action?
Hello Terry - I think you are right to a degree about the suicide issue. If a culture of suicide has developed, then people will choose the means available to them - pills, hanging, and so on. We can see this in Japan and Korea, where guns are not easily available but suicide rates are still high compared with other developed countries.
It's a complex issue, but I think that if a culture of easy suicides via guns has developed in a particular country, then limiting access to guns may help reduce suicides within that country if it is combined with a broader anti-suicide health policy. Just removing guns with no other health intervention may simply push people onto other methods.
Yah at last Clint Eastwood makes an appearance .
I did take the time to watch the clips and I do appreciate that if you ban all guns ( not ever going to happen ) only the law abiding peeps will give them up the naughty ones will hang on to them , not good , so problem would still be the type of firepower needed by your average joe and I wasn't saying women can't handle guns I was just referring to your exemple , so correct me if I'm wrong but automatics are illegal but a bump stock to convert a semi to rapid fire is sold legally pretty sure that's what the lv shooter had , now a hand gun or shot gun would be ample to stop any junky from stealing your playboy collection , so why keep selling these conversions? Had the psycho in the hotel had a hand gun or shot gun he would have had to be a hell of a lot closer which would have meant he'd be stopped a lot quicker , there is still the chance he'd just carry a bomb or drive a truck you can't reason with crazy , my other gripe and again I may be wrong but is it the case only businesses have to do a check on a gun buyer , if it's sold privately does the seller have to check or can they sell to anyone ? Ooh another point this ones more of a question is any training compulsory for a first time gun buyer or could a chap ( or chapess ) just get a permit and buy a gun ?
Just a couple of wiki stats , 6000 people were killed mistakenly putting their hand guns to their ears instead of their cell phones , another 1000 were shot while poking out belly button fluff with a gun barrel , and 10000 guns had to be retrieved from peoples butts after they accidentally sat on them while naked and covered in baby oil , it's on the net so it must be true . Yoall have a nice day now ya here :D
Buster - Good questions all around. There are federal gun laws and there are state gun laws. Federal gun laws affect the entire country. State laws vary from state to state. Some are conservative some are liberal in regards to gun ownership.
As for bump stocks...most people had never even heard of them until the LV shooter - including gun owners. I'd never heard of them. It was the Obama administration that actually permitted them. The problem is...I don't know if you've ever heard of this crew...it's called the Democrats? With them nothing is on the level. The way you know they are lying is their mouths are moving. So that's what legal law abiding responsible gun owners fear...the slippery slope.
I would also argue that abuse of the first amendment (freedom of the press) has taken far more lives than abuse of the second amendment (the right to bear arms).
MyNameIsTerry
09-10-17, 14:57
Converting to auto fire isn't that new is it? I've not heard the term "bump stock" but I'm sure I've come across semi-to-auto conversion before? :shrug:
So, the federal government make a mess of legislation by leaving a backdoor for technology? :doh:
Jill Snyder, a special agent in charge at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, said at a news conference in Las Vegas on Tuesday. “Bump-fire stocks, while simulating automatic fire, do not actually alter the firearm to fire automatically, making them legal under current federal law.”
Or did they know all along so legislation got through knowing the back door would appease?
What a stupid law. I could carry 2 3 inch non locking blades but any functionality which allowed them to combine into a longer blade would make them Illegal.
Hello Terry - I think you are right to a degree about the suicide issue. If a culture of suicide has developed, then people will choose the means available to them - pills, hanging, and so on. We can see this in Japan and Korea, where guns are not easily available but suicide rates are still high compared with other developed countries.
It's a complex issue, but I think that if a culture of easy suicides via guns has developed in a particular country, then limiting access to guns may help reduce suicides within that country if it is combined with a broader anti-suicide health policy. Just removing guns with no other health intervention may simply push people onto other methods.
As our resident authority on all things Asian let me ask you a question - are suicide rates among Asians higher than other populations? I know several Asians (one is a very close friend) and they just seem so damned intense, I even bring this up to my friend and he's says it's the culture. This is a guy that was born here but raised in the Chinese culture - even has a bit of an accent. I'm not saying all Asians are like this but I know another guy - Vietnamese - and he's very similar in intensity. It seems like a pride thing with them...and I let them know it, too. So just wondering about the hari kari.
N.
---------- Post added at 14:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:08 ----------
You mean in the days of unstable, corrupt governments, constant runs on the banks and the Wild West? Damn right you'd need a gun :roflmao:
Now stop getting all hot and bothered under your collar, Noi :lac:
Great Britain
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.xDLSkXiPx3Tc0D3uZEQHTQEsDH&w=299&h=193&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7
America
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.w6VXmMyWS2D7xwAslzAKQAFNC7&w=300&h=168&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7
MyNameIsTerry
09-10-17, 15:26
As our resident authority on all things Asian let me ask you a question - are suicide rates among Asians higher than other populations? I know several Asians (one is a very close friend) and they just seem so damned intense, I even bring this up to my friend and he's says it's the culture. This is a guy that was born here but raised in the Chinese culture - even has a bit of an accent. I'm not saying all Asians are like this but I know another guy - Vietnamese - and he's very similar in intensity. It seems like a pride thing with them...and I let them know it, too. So just wondering about the hari kari.
N.
I grew up with Chinese friends and I wouldn't say they were intense. They loved a good laugh and we laid back about stuff. I run into one of them now & again and he hasn't changed 20 years on.
What I did find is that they are very serious in their commitment to family & work. But that's just one family with one branch off, so very much an anecdote.
It will be interesting to hear what hanshan says.
---------- Post added at 15:26 ---------- Previous post was at 15:23 ----------
Great Britain
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.xDLSkXiPx3Tc0D3uZEQHTQEsDH&w=299&h=193&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7
America
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.w6VXmMyWS2D7xwAslzAKQAFNC7&w=300&h=168&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7
Very true but we're pretty aligned as cultures go. We are closer to you guys than we are mainland Europe.
But the days of us having weapons ended a very long time ago. And back the the common man had far less rights than any criminal today. Our young children died working in mills, for instance.
How much responsibility do the ones who drive our culture bear?
From Pulitzer Prize winning (2017) columnist Peggy Noonan last week.
Peggy Noonan: Why do Americans own so many guns? Because they don’t trust elites to protect them.
When news broke at Christmastime five years ago of what had happened at Newtown a friend, a news anchor, called and said with a broken voice: “What is the word for what we feel?” I thought for a moment. “Shattered,” I said. “We are shattered, all of us.” When people in ensuing days spoke of what had been done to the little children in the classrooms, I’d put up my hands and say no, we can’t keep putting those words in the air, we can’t afford it. When terrible images enter our heads and settle in, they become too real, and what is real is soon, by the unstable, imitated, repeated.
When Columbine happened in the spring of 1999, it hit me like a wave of sickness. I wrote a piece about the culture of death that produced the teenage shooters: “Think of it this way. Your child is an intelligent little fish. He swims in deep water. Waves of sound and sight, of thought and fact, come invisibly through that water, like radar. . . . The sound from the television is a wave, and the sound from the radio; the headlines on the newsstand, on the magazines, on the ad on the bus as it whizzes by—all are waves. The fish—your child—is bombarded and barely knows it. But the waves contain words like this, which I’ll limit to only one source, the news:
“. . . was found strangled and is believed to have been sexually molested . . . had her breast implants removed . . . took the stand to say the killer was smiling the day the show aired . . . said the procedure is, in fact, legal infanticide . . . is thought to be connected to earlier sexual activity among teens . . . court battle over who owns the frozen sperm . . . contains songs that call for dominating and even imprisoning women . . . died of lethal injection . . . had threatened to kill her children . . . had asked Kevorkian for help in killing himself . . . protested the game, which they said has gone beyond violence to sadism . . . showed no remorse . . . which is about a wager over whether he could sleep with another student . . .
“This is the ocean in which our children swim. This is the sound of our culture. It comes from all parts of our culture and reaches all parts of our culture, and all the people in it, which is everybody.
The establishments and elites that create our political and entertainment culture have no idea how fragile it all is—how fragile it seems to people living normal, less privileged lives. That is because nothing is fragile for them. They’re barricaded behind the things the influential have, from good neighborhoods to security alarms, doormen and gates. They’re not dark in their imagining of the future because history has never been dark for them; it’s been sunshine, which they expect to continue. They sail on, oblivious to the legitimate anxieties of their countrymen who live near the edge.
Those who create our culture feel free to lecture normal Americans—on news shows, on late night comedy shows. Why do they have such a propensity for violence? What is their love for guns? Why do they join the National Rifle Association? The influential grind away with their disdain for their fellow Americans, whom they seem less to want to help than to dominate: Give up your gun, bake my cake, free speech isn’t free if what you’re saying triggers us.
Would it help if we tried less censure and more cultural affiliation? Might it help if we started working on problems that are real? Sure. But why lower the temperature when there’s such easy pleasure to be had in ridiculing your mindless and benighted countrymen?
Great Britain
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.xDLSkXiPx3Tc0D3uZEQHTQEsDH&w=299&h=193&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7
America
https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.w6VXmMyWS2D7xwAslzAKQAFNC7&w=300&h=168&c=7&qlt=90&o=4&pid=1.7
Did you study history at school, Agent N?
I'm afraid you are stuck in an 18th Century parochial time-warp and I will have to get BB to fetch you back to the 21st Century with the Tardis, old boy :shades:
I blame the GOP and Trump for this nationalistic mess :lac:
Nationalistic! Thanks for the compliment, Pal!:hugs:
I'm a 100% nationalist. MAGA!:yahoo:
Nationalistic! Thanks for the compliment, Pal!:hugs:
I'm a 100% nationalist. MAGA!:yahoo:
I have a new avatar for you :shades:
https://2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Maga+brothers+aftermath+bril+red+big1+counter+peti tion+to+ensure+donald+trump+receives+the_5aa194_60 85980.jpg
Hey...that's cool. That's a keeper.
MyNameIsTerry
10-10-17, 02:24
It's a bit hard to put this one on Trump, it's been raging forever in the US...Obama was in there too.
If the US doesn't look towards ways to reduce gun availability then they will have to learn to accept "shit happens" and put up with the crime rates and every so often madman running amok.
---------- Post added at 02:06 ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 ----------
How much responsibility do the ones who drive our culture bear?
From Pulitzer Prize winning (2017) columnist Peggy Noonan last week.
Peggy Noonan: Why do Americans own so many guns? Because they don’t trust elites to protect them.
When news broke at Christmastime five years ago of what had happened at Newtown a friend, a news anchor, called and said with a broken voice: “What is the word for what we feel?” I thought for a moment. “Shattered,” I said. “We are shattered, all of us.” When people in ensuing days spoke of what had been done to the little children in the classrooms, I’d put up my hands and say no, we can’t keep putting those words in the air, we can’t afford it. When terrible images enter our heads and settle in, they become too real, and what is real is soon, by the unstable, imitated, repeated.
When Columbine happened in the spring of 1999, it hit me like a wave of sickness. I wrote a piece about the culture of death that produced the teenage shooters: “Think of it this way. Your child is an intelligent little fish. He swims in deep water. Waves of sound and sight, of thought and fact, come invisibly through that water, like radar. . . . The sound from the television is a wave, and the sound from the radio; the headlines on the newsstand, on the magazines, on the ad on the bus as it whizzes by—all are waves. The fish—your child—is bombarded and barely knows it. But the waves contain words like this, which I’ll limit to only one source, the news:
“. . . was found strangled and is believed to have been sexually molested . . . had her breast implants removed . . . took the stand to say the killer was smiling the day the show aired . . . said the procedure is, in fact, legal infanticide . . . is thought to be connected to earlier sexual activity among teens . . . court battle over who owns the frozen sperm . . . contains songs that call for dominating and even imprisoning women . . . died of lethal injection . . . had threatened to kill her children . . . had asked Kevorkian for help in killing himself . . . protested the game, which they said has gone beyond violence to sadism . . . showed no remorse . . . which is about a wager over whether he could sleep with another student . . .
“This is the ocean in which our children swim. This is the sound of our culture. It comes from all parts of our culture and reaches all parts of our culture, and all the people in it, which is everybody.
The establishments and elites that create our political and entertainment culture have no idea how fragile it all is—how fragile it seems to people living normal, less privileged lives. That is because nothing is fragile for them. They’re barricaded behind the things the influential have, from good neighborhoods to security alarms, doormen and gates. They’re not dark in their imagining of the future because history has never been dark for them; it’s been sunshine, which they expect to continue. They sail on, oblivious to the legitimate anxieties of their countrymen who live near the edge.
Those who create our culture feel free to lecture normal Americans—on news shows, on late night comedy shows. Why do they have such a propensity for violence? What is their love for guns? Why do they join the National Rifle Association? The influential grind away with their disdain for their fellow Americans, whom they seem less to want to help than to dominate: Give up your gun, bake my cake, free speech isn’t free if what you’re saying triggers us.
Would it help if we tried less censure and more cultural affiliation? Might it help if we started working on problems that are real? Sure. But why lower the temperature when there’s such easy pleasure to be had in ridiculing your mindless and benighted countrymen?
Plenty, I'm sure, but you fight the battles you can and leave the big stuff to those who want to put their life into that. I take personal responsibility.
When I consider where I live, arming anyone would mean I would need a few guns because all the morons in the area will also have them. I don't want to see our society go down that path because it will be hard to come back from and a lot of people will get hurt.
But, I don't carry a knife. Some around here do. I have a few at home and that's where they stay. I just have to hope I keep myself out of a situation where I'm confronted with one but some of this is down to fate too. If I tool up though, I'm going to have to face the consequences of that one if the police stop & search me.
Society will never be fair, neither will life, we all know that one. But something to question is why do American's need guns to defend themselves against their own government when the rest of us see this as bizarre? A government might go bat shit crazy at some point but how likely is it? What if the choice is "just in case" vs. saving lives?
This is one issue where you find the US & UK are very different. Most of us are going to be wondering what the point of guns is as it's alien to our culture, so I guess that's the same as you guys on the other side looking at us seeing us as a bit odd for not having them? I wonder what your cops think of our bobbies having a spray & baton having to confront anything including a firearm?
---------- Post added at 02:18 ---------- Previous post was at 02:06 ----------
I would also argue that abuse of the first amendment (freedom of the press) has taken far more lives than abuse of the second amendment (the right to bear arms).
The media are out of control. They are too big & too powerful now, on a global level. They can influence our governments so much and our votes. We need enforcement of better standards for many reasons. They certainly do fuel violence through their campaigning.
But like I said, there are far too many morons in the UK to make gun ownership a scary prospect.
---------- Post added at 02:24 ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 ----------
Hello Terry - I think you are right to a degree about the suicide issue. If a culture of suicide has developed, then people will choose the means available to them - pills, hanging, and so on. We can see this in Japan and Korea, where guns are not easily available but suicide rates are still high compared with other developed countries.
It's a complex issue, but I think that if a culture of easy suicides via guns has developed in a particular country, then limiting access to guns may help reduce suicides within that country if it is combined with a broader anti-suicide health policy. Just removing guns with no other health intervention may simply push people onto other methods.
Hi hanshan,
I makes me think about medication too. I remember a lady from the US who joined purelty to post about losing her son. He had just started a SSRI and used his gun to end his life.
I wonder how many fall into that bucket? Hopefully few but they may be masked as depressed indviduals as it would be in the interests of drug companies to keep the lid on it...and we know the power they have given how they are ripping off our health systems and not looking into drugs as they can sit back and reap the profits.
It's hard to get good statistics on suicide rates and make meaningful comparisons between populations. Some countries have very young populations (eg Vietnam) while others have rapidly aging populations. Suicide may be disproportionate among the elderly, the young, males or females, and so on. Some countries may seek to downplay suicide rates by classifying them as accidental or natural deaths (eg official rates from China in the past). And rates change from year to year, often in line with economic conditions.
Nevertheless, it seems that the suicide rates in Korea and China are around double those in the US (as a comparison - also official figures for China and estimates vary considerably, and population demographics are also under great change). Suicide rates in Japan are around 20% higher in Japan compared to the US. However, suicide rates in Vietnam are (officially) lower, perhaps due to the young population.
I honestly can't say whether Asian people are more intense, but maintaining face is a strong cultural value, and this includes not letting down your group. There has been great pressure to equal or surpass the west in economic development - this may take its toll on those who may feel they have failed to live up to expectations in some way. So instead of intense, I'd say there is probably more group pressure - a bit like being born into a high achieving sports team, whether you like it or not.
Military Surgeon Says Videos of Las Vegas Gunshot Victims Are Fake
https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/10/09/military-surgeon-says-videos-las-vegas-gunshot-victims-fake/
https://media.giphy.com/media/1vogIoe1P9Pkk/200w.gif
http://www.snopes.com/2017/10/12/conspiracy-theories-las-vegas-mass-shooting/
People died in a mass shooting, many were badly injured, families lost loved ones.
Show some respect and stop turning everything into a conspiracy circle jerk for you and your equally paranoid conspiracy theorists you absolute clown.
Snopes is your friend hollow. Add it to your bookmarks. :winks:
'Fact checking' website Snopes on verge of collapse after founder is accused of fraud, lies, and putting prostitutes and his honeymoon on expenses (and it hasn't told its readers THOSE facts)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4730092/Snopes-brink-founder-accused-fraud-lying.html
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/26/20/42B6538A00000578-0-image-a-23_1501097971989.jpg
---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:47 ----------
Show some respect and stop turning everything into a conspiracy circle jerk for you and your equally paranoid conspiracy theorists you absolute clown.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgrckQMlxwa7U60XnvBCBoAvtB3IT5H _E699LimPV3ffuJuB8
Snopes is your friend hollow. Add it to your bookmarks. :winks:
Snopes is a hard leftwing publication which has been largely discredited.
MyNameIsTerry
18-10-17, 16:38
Snopes always sounds like somewhere to buy some shoes. :biggrin:
What would be gained by a false flag in an event like this? Some said the Manchester bombing was a government job. Talk about paranoia. If the government was like in some futuristic film where they all walk around with assault rifles wearing black arresting us for having the wrong sort of books or clothing then there would be cause for concern.
(I might have just described Spain there...:biggrin:)
Hollow likes to discredit anything "official" until it agrees with his rampant paranoia. He's spent the majority of his time here discrediting the US army and anything it stands for, yet he's all over this because, apparently, a "military surgeon" says the photos are fake.
Got to love conspiracy theorists, they go against anyone in authority until one of them starts foaming at the mouth and giving them something to get a semi erection over.
As I said, absolute clown.
MyNameIsTerry
18-10-17, 18:14
Hollow likes to discredit anything "official" until it agrees with his rampant paranoia. He's spent the majority of his time here discrediting the US army and anything it stands for, yet he's all over this because, apparently, a "military surgeon" says the photos are fake.
Got to love conspiracy theorists, they go against anyone in authority until one of them starts foaming at the mouth and giving them something to get a semi erection over.
As I said, absolute clown.
There is a lot of bizarre stuff out there.
Not even just the public or paid media fakers either if you look at Diane Abbott, Lammy, etc on Grenfell "authorities are hiding the true death toll". Hound on the Manchester bombing. It's all very bad taste & disrespectful.
Fake news is the term for what has existed for a long time.
The Nazis would blow their minds if they read our media & internet. :biggrin:
omg suddenly you are concerned about the veracity of the source? Too funny. :roflmao:
Hmm...conspiracy theories...well lets see...911 was a conspiracy...Arch Duke Ferdinand a conspiracy...Abraham Lincoln assassination yep...The Night of the Long Knives oh yeah...Boston Marathon Bombing sure was...Thirty Pieces of Silver definitely...72 Summer Olympics Munich big time conspiracy...et tu Brute? one of the all time classic conspiracies...and on and on and on...enough to fill these blank pages many times over. So yes absolutely conspiracy theories.
The CIA The NSA The FBI The KGB MI6 MOSSAD INTERPOL...why do you think these agencies exist?
N
Don't forget JFK Conspiracy, Agent N. Bloody Allen Dulles, the Freemasonic swine :lac:
MyNameIsTerry
19-10-17, 01:32
You never know in some cases so in 20 year maybe we will hear something that challenges our views of today? For instance, if we were all told Jimmy Saville was the worst paedophile in our history what would we have said 20 years ago?
All those wonderful public children's homes...and only in recent years have all the paedophile ring stories been taken seriously.
Remember Tony Blair & Iraq? :biggrin:
You know KK...your the second person (a friend of mine being the first), on the second day (yesterday being the first), on the second continent (North America being the first) that has referenced the Dulles brothers in regards to the JFK assassination. My friend is very versed in the subject. He has read about ten books on it and that's his belief...Dulles was behind it. I wonder how much the Bush's had to do with the Dulles boys? Are you aware that George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA prior to being Reagan's vice president...then president. And his father was a US Senator for two terms. Talk about being connected.
You know KK...your the second person (a friend of mine being the first), on the second day (yesterday being the first), on the second continent (North America being the first) that has referenced the Dulles brothers in regards to the JFK assassination. My friend is very versed in the subject. He has read about ten books on it and that's his belief...Dulles was behind it. I wonder how much the Bush's had to do with the Dulles boys? Are you aware that George H.W. Bush was head of the CIA prior to being Reagan's vice president...then president. And his father was a US Senator for two terms. Talk about being connected.
You don't get a major airport named after you unless you were one (or two) serious dude(s) - Dulles was instrumental in CIA formation and, especially, expansion, Agent N. Well versed in the area of mind control and those who laugh now at conspiracy theories should question why only some classified information is released long after those involved are dead, buried and forgotten. History is written by those who hold the power in their desired version.
MyNameIsTerry
19-10-17, 02:17
Hillsborough springs to mind.
A few of us at work have a conspiracy theory on who keeps knocking off the dunny paper, I reckon it's my boss,she always has the shits.:D
The one going around now is Melania Trump :roflmao:
It's true. I saw it. Melania has been replaced by a stunt double. Dark glasses and a completely different nose. Can we believe in anything the government wants us to now????
Claiming that events like the Sandy Hook elementary school shootings were faked are beyond offensive. Twenty school children were murdered that day. To even suggest that such an event was a staged hoax is absolutely appalling.
I'm all with swajj's comments above. There's a "fake Melania" meme doing the rounds at the moment. I only wanted to make fun of that.
I keep forgetting that Australians who mean exactly what they say never say exactly what they mean ...
Yep that is me.:yesyes:.So glad I live in this place Australia, honestly don't know how lucky we are.
Claiming that events like the Sandy Hook elementary school shootings were faked are beyond offensive. Twenty school children were murdered that day. To even suggest that such an event was a staged hoax is absolutely appalling.
I've never said or claimed Sandy Hook was a hoax or that people aren't dying in "terrorist" shootings or bombings. Tens of thousands of children are also dying in wars currently being waged in parts of the world like Africa, Middle East and Myanmar, to name a few, but the media isn't interested in putting them on the front pages.
My comment wasn’t aimed at you kk.
My comment wasn’t aimed at you kk.
Then keep calm and carry on posting in HA Forum ;)
Hey...the jihadists are burning kids alive in cages...but I digress. Why is the entire European continent concerned with our liberal gun laws here in the land of the free? What about guns in...let's say...Afghanistan? Where's the outrage?
Here's a question...should the USA pull up stakes from every foreign nation and come home to MAGA? No more aid to any other country (because I'll bet my last buck the US gives more than every other nation combined in aid). No more military assistance to anyone either. So to all the complainers about my good ol USA being the bane of the planet I'd be very happy if we'd take a hands of approach in regards to the world's ills. It must be nice to live in a perfect panacea. :D
N.
MyNameIsTerry
19-10-17, 17:11
It's because the US is seen as the leader in the West despite not being as liberal as many Western countries. The president is touted as "the leader of the free world". So, with the big ups you are going to be under the spotlight about any of your transgressions.
Trump gets elected, women March around the world. Women, LGBT folks, ethnic groups & lesser volume religions get persecuted in many a country and it's "that's life over there".
That's why when your police do something, they are vilified in the West. A daily beating or stitching up in Iran isn't seen the same.
And don't forget the far left have a real bone for you guys. They let Putin off with anything. They let people like Saudi treat citizens like dirt daily...but the US they loathe.
It's just part of life's rich tapestry of hypocrisy (we all do it somewhere) but everyone always likes knocking the big rich guy.
---------- Post added at 17:11 ---------- Previous post was at 17:10 ----------
Was Sandy Hook in an earlier post? I must have missed it.
The latest:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/breaking-vegas-shooters-laptop-missing-hard-drive/
MyNameIsTerry
26-10-17, 02:36
The latest:
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/breaking-vegas-shooters-laptop-missing-hard-drive/
I've not seen anything recently on this (UK media has moved on as usual) so what is the ISIS connection in this? Has that been corroborated?
A few things I've read lately Terry:
The Shooters hard drive has gone missing.
The security guard who was shot has left the country.
The Shooter has been in contact for months with radical Muslims
Isis is still claiming the shooting
---------- Post added at 15:37 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------
Oh yeah...his brother has been arrested for child porn
Hey...the jihadists are burning kids alive in cages...but I digress. Why is the entire European continent concerned with our liberal gun laws here in the land of the free? What about guns in...let's say...Afghanistan? Where's the outrage?
Here's a question...should the USA pull up stakes from every foreign nation and come home to MAGA? No more aid to any other country (because I'll bet my last buck the US gives more than every other nation combined in aid). No more military assistance to anyone either. So to all the complainers about my good ol USA being the bane of the planet I'd be very happy if we'd take a hands of approach in regards to the world's ills. It must be nice to live in a perfect panacea. :D
N.
We are all taught from an early age what historians and governments want us to know and believe , growing up in the 70s 80s we had terrorism in the uk from the I.R.A which got a lot of funding from the USA to plant bombs in our pubs and shopping centres and shooting each other in Ireland , women dragged from their kids and shot for being informers. What we weren't taught at school is why the Irish hated us so much and how our government had starved thousands of them to death .
Non of our histories are whiter than white a lot have argued Hiroshima and Nagasaki were unnecessary the war was all but over but a h bomb had been made and needed to be shown , you might see why the world might see the USA as a little trigger happy when trump decides to show his country's force who will suffer not him he'll be tucked up in his bunker with his fake wife watching it on tv like when he dodged Vietnam with his fake dodgy foot .
Now we did send one of our representatives to the USA to try and tell you to "give peace a chance " but it didn't end too well , could we maybe send cliff richard to pop a flower into your gun barrels ( bang 💥 splat ) no more cliff :D
There is a conspiracy theory that noivous is not American but maybe Iraqi or Canadian :D
Definitely not anti American where would we be without the simpsons , Doh , Doh Doh and without guns there would be no kickback vids on YouTube
Yoall have a nice day now :hugs:
he'll be tucked up in his bunker with his fake wife watching it on tv like when he dodged Vietnam with his fake dodgy foot .
Now we did send one of our representatives to the USA to try and tell you to "give peace a chance " but it didn't end too well , could we maybe send cliff richard to pop a flower into your gun barrels ( bang 💥 splat ) no more cliff :D
:roflmao:
Off with Cliff's head! :D
Ah...I see you avoided the question Buster.
When you say funding came from the USA to the IRA to kill little innocent children do you mean the US government was doing the funding?
You won't get any argument from me on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. I'm with General's MacArthur and Patton along with former President Nixon who were totally against the bombing. Twas Democrat President "Give em Hell Harry" Truman who actually did give the Japanese a living hell when he ordered the dropping of Fat Man and Little Boy.
Btw...it's not Yoall. It's...Y'all
And how dare you call me a Canadian! Blimey!
I remember another representative you sent to see a bloke named Adolph. He came back from Berlin waving a little paper screaming something about "peace in our time". How'd that work out for you? Not to good till Uncle Sam pulled your chestnuts out of the fire...again.
Cheerio!
---------- Post added at 22:31 ---------- Previous post was at 22:11 ----------
Noivous and Buster on a road trip together:D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvAG5Zeuwgs
MyNameIsTerry
27-10-17, 01:45
If we're sending Cliff over it's probably best his private concert doesn't kick off with "Wired For Sound" to save the nerves of the paranoid spooks :whistles:
---------- Post added at 01:42 ---------- Previous post was at 01:36 ----------
What we weren't taught at school is why the Irish hated us so much and how our government had starved thousands of them to death .
Hopefully people aren't so daft as to not hate a foreign government rather than it's people. What Fred the milkman gets up to on a daily basis has no impact on Patrick the farmer. The Scots must really hate us! "FFFRRREEEEEEDDDDOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!" :biggrin:
I remember being taught about what Germany did yet I don't recall us hating the later generations.
---------- Post added at 01:45 ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 ----------
A few things I've read lately Terry:
The Shooters hard drive has gone missing.
The security guard who was shot has left the country.
The Shooter has been in contact for months with radical Muslims
Isis is still claiming the shooting
---------- Post added at 15:37 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------
Oh yeah...his brother has been arrested for child porn
Sounds like his brother should have "lost" his hard drive too. :winks:
Has the government made any comment on the ISIS element?
If ISIS has claimed responsibility for the Las Vegas psyop then this was a Mossad operation. ISIS is just another name for the Israeli Security Intelligence Service. It was later changed to IS or Daesh because people were beginning to question why this fake organisation doesn't attack Israel. Infact the Isrealis have been treating ISIS fighters in their hospitals near the Syrian border and providing them with air cover.
The current leader of ISIS, whose real name is Simon Elliot is a Mossad agent.
http://www.whitedeathofislam.josru.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/isis-is-mossad.jpg
Ah...I see you avoided the question Buster.
When you say funding came from the USA to the IRA to kill little innocent children do you mean the US government was doing the funding?
You won't get any argument from me on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. I'm with General's MacArthur and Patton along with former President Nixon who were totally against the bombing. Twas Democrat President "Give em Hell Harry" Truman who actually did give the Japanese a living hell when he ordered the dropping of Fat Man and Little Boy.
Btw...it's not Yoall. It's...Y'all
And how dare you call me a Canadian! Blimey!
I remember another representative you sent to see a bloke named Adolph. He came back from Berlin waving a little paper screaming something about "peace in our time". How'd that work out for you? Not to good till Uncle Sam pulled your chestnuts out of the fire...again.
Cheerio!
---------- Post added at 22:31 ---------- Previous post was at 22:11 ----------
Noivous and Buster on a road trip together:D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvAG5Zeuwgs
Now I wouldn't avoid the question it's just my memory is so bad by the time I start to reply I can't remember the question .
Noraid were the fundraisers for the beloved IRA but maybe the government too who the hell knows were our money gets spent .
All this talk of fat man , little boy , Uncle Sam and special relationships makes me feel like I'm being groomed , should I tell an adult ?
Now the 1939-45 war as we know it ( you may know it as 41 -45 ) worked out ok I've been driving and restoring Volkswagens for many years I love them and we don't speak German so all good we even nicked the Wolfsburg factory after the war , result :)
I really do love all things American , keanu reeves , Pamela Anderson , celine
Dion , Bryan Adams .
I'm no terry Thomas but I'd be up for that road trip , we could be Anglo American pickers :D
Have a nice day , you all .
Now I wouldn't avoid the question it's just my memory is so bad by the time I start to reply I can't remember the question .
Noraid were the fundraisers for the beloved IRA but maybe the government too who the hell knows were our money gets spent .
All this talk of fat man , little boy , Uncle Sam and special relationships makes me feel like I'm being groomed , should I tell an adult ?
Now the 1939-45 war as we know it ( you may know it as 41 -45 ) worked out ok I've been driving and restoring Volkswagens for many years I love them and we don't speak German so all good we even nicked the Wolfsburg factory after the war , result :)
I really do love all things American , keanu reeves , Pamela Anderson , celine
Dion , Bryan Adams .
I'm no terry Thomas but I'd be up for that road trip , we could be Anglo American pickers :D
Have a nice day , you all .
Hahaha! Fair enough...I'll gas up my 72 Beetle!
Btw my greatgrammy's name was Braun (no relation to Eva)...right off the boat from Germany late 1800's...married a Brit.
Sprechen sie deutsch, Mate? No wonder I'm so confused:wacko:.
N.
Hahaha! Fair enough...I'll gas up my 72 Beetle!
Btw my greatgrammy's name was Braun (no relation to Eva)...right off the boat from Germany late 1800's...married a Brit.
Sprechen sie deutsch, Mate? No wonder I'm so confused:wacko:.
N.
Holen Sie sich jetzt für eine Besprechung ins Hauptquartier! :lac:
Holen Sie sich jetzt für eine Besprechung ins Hauptquartier! :lac:
Jawohl Herr Kommandant, KK!
MyNameIsTerry
28-10-17, 02:28
Btw my greatgrammy's name was Braun (no relation to Eva)...right off the boat from Germany late 1800's...married a Brit.
Did she invent any gentlemen's facial care impliments? :D
---------- Post added at 02:28 ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 ----------
I really do love all things American , keanu reeves , Pamela Anderson , celine
Dion , Bryan Adams .
Just give me two good reasons for that? Oh hang on...:winks:
Ah ahhh , walked right into my little trap , had you been American or Canadian you would have picked up on my list of favourite Americans when in fact they were all Canadian ( shock horror ! ) it didn't take much to flush you out as German noivous or should I call you fritz? If I'd asked you to show me the engine on that 72 bug you would have gone straight to the rear were as any true American would have opened the front Hood ( bonnet ) and shouted " hunny someone stole ma ingine go get ma gun " .
It wouldn't surprise me if you weren't even in America you are probably hiding out in Buckingham palace with our inbred German blood sucking lizard royal family :D
Can't wait for these secret files to be released to see if JFK really was the first man on the moon or if it was indeed buzz lightyear :doh:
Auf wiedersehen y'all
Lol...Are you kidding I picked up on that instantly, Buster. I know they're all...ugh...Canadians. I thought you were just tweaking me a little. send me a name I'll tell you whether or not they're Canadian or American.
---------- Post added at 23:14 ---------- Previous post was at 23:05 ----------
Did she invent any gentlemen's facial care impliments? :D
---------- Post added at 02:28 ---------- Previous post was at 02:23 ----------
Just give me two good reasons for that? Oh hang on...:winks:
Hmm...facial implement? What are you trying to say about my ancestors, Terry?:ohmy:
---------- Post added at 23:15 ---------- Previous post was at 23:14 ----------
Hahaha...if you asked me to see the engine in the VW I would just pick it up and show it to you then put it back.
---------- Post added at 23:25 ---------- Previous post was at 23:15 ----------
In heaven the Italians are the lovers, the French are the cooks, The Swiss run the hotels, the Germans are the mechanics and the British are the Police.
In hell the Swiss are the lovers, the French run the hotels, the British are the cooks, the Italians are the mechanics, and the Germans are zee police!
N.
Lol...Are you kidding I picked up on that instantly, Buster. I know they're all...ugh...Canadians. I thought you were just tweaking me a little. send me a name I'll tell you whether or not they're Canadian or American.
Hahaha...if you asked me to see the engine in the VW I would just pick it up and show it to you then put it back.
What's this abooot? Canadian? What's the meaning of this? You're not American? Utter slander I say!
Lie detector test immediately! :lac:
MyNameIsTerry
29-10-17, 01:45
Hmm...facial implement? What are you trying to say about my ancestors, Terry?:ohmy:
Something that buzzes loudly as you rub it near to an orifice :D
Something that buzzes loudly as you rub it near to an orifice :D
:roflmao:
Which hole Terry?, I got me a Braun lady shaver for my mo,lol.:D:
MyNameIsTerry
29-10-17, 03:49
:roflmao:
Which hole Terry?, I got me a Braun lady shaver for my mo,lol.:D:
:roflmao: I never thought of that one, Lola :roflmao:
I didn't know they had Casual Friday's at Buckingham Palace:D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-0trkDwWtpE
I didn't know they had Casual Friday's at Buckingham Palace:D
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-0trkDwWtpE
Get the leeching swines out of the palace, Agent Noi. 1000 years of "royal bloodlines" and we still bow down in servitude. They should put their money where their big gobs are, gassing about "mental health awareness", and open the palace's doors to the homeless. It's the size of a small hospital and could serve as a hostel for hundreds. But let's dream on :lac:
I do wonder whether the Royals can shape-shift, however :scared15:
But about Kate?! What about Harry?! What about...Camilla?!!!!
Hey forget the JFK mystery...what about Jack the Ripper? I read somewhere once that there is evidence that he could be part of royalty and that's why we never found out his identity.
Hmm...this might be a job for...agent n...shhh...
But about Kate?! What about Harry?! What about...Camilla?!!!!
Hey forget the JFK mystery...what about Jack the Ripper? I read somewhere once that there is evidence that he could be part of royalty and that's why we never found out his identity.
Hmm...this might be a job for...agent n...shhh...
Off with their heads! :lac:
Please report for a briefing from BB who is working on infiltrating the Dr Who Fan Club (based near Westminster). She will direct you to the Tardis.
Dio ti protegga! :shades:
MyNameIsTerry
30-10-17, 02:22
Kiss all the tourist cash (all those Americans) away with them though.
Sadly the monarchy will pretty much die when the Queen's generation goes and we are stuck with these idiots.
Kate does a load for mental health awareness so that's helpful but like any public figure or celebrity it's more just adding your name to it. We live in a world these days where celebs make fake connections to charities saying they waive their fees but they know free work boosts your salary just the same as it's all about profile.
Many a murder back then would have gone unsolved or beaten out of anyone wandering past, N. The cops were as bad as the crims back then.
Here's the classic Two Ronnies sketch "The Phantom Raspberry Blower Of Old London Town" and it's the monarchy again!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwaEPTSRcSw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nyE1DFNmfY
OK noivous so I was going to throw Bruce Springsteen and Barack Obama at you to see if you knew your Americans but you seem to have passed the second test in showing a sense of humour so you can't possibly be German and to be honest I had to Google famous Canadians after Adams and Dion because I didn't know any , it's like calling the Welsh , Irish or Scots English you might as well slap them in the face , we are all like brothers sharing a bedroom you love them but wouldn't mind putting a pillow over their faces at times .
Don't get me started kk on how big B palace and it's grounds are in a city with people sleeping in cardboard boxes let them sleep in a shop doorway for week .
Used to take daughter to school in this one she hated it so much she'd hide in the footwell so I'd pap the horn as she left .
eight people murdered in New York City. Run over buy a pickup truck. Oh no I think we really should have some truck control in the United States. That Don truck killed some people. nobody should be allowed to own a truck.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2017/10/31/shooting-nyc-n2403020
Now I see your point about evil f&@kers using whatever means they can to kill but a truck does have a purpose other than killing people where as guns have one purpose , I also can see your point about not trusting governments and keeping arms incase you need to start a rebellion, in our country a tiny minority own the vast majority of the wealth and are trying to control everything, the people vote and the rich try to reverse it if they don't like the outcome , I'm from Robin Hood county one day we'll put on our green tights and take it all back even things out a bit .
Did you see the piers Morgan gun debate ? One Englishman who most would like to shoot and the angriest pro gun American who due to his anger issues probably shouldn't have a gun , he had a fair case but someone a little calmer might have been a better choice he looked like he was going to explode .
Now it's been another sad day for you guys in the USA and I have been pulling your chain a little lately so here's a short list of the good things that the good old USA gave me growing up across the pond .
In order of appearance
Elvis ( thanks mum )
Dukes of hazard ( daisy in particular)
Jonny cash
Evil kinevel
Monster trucks
Paul Newman
Steve McQueen
BMX Bikes , se racing
The Ramones
Metallica
Nervana
Stepside trucks
Cal look Volkswagens
Baywatch
Tom hanks
Snap on tools ( bling for grease monkeys )
I'm on the fence on apple and google life was simpler before Dr Google
Point is it's not all doom gloom guns and hate there are still good people out there that don't want to kill each other .
Ta ta :)
You can't leave out Knight Rider! :shades:
MyNameIsTerry
02-11-17, 02:44
Frank Dreben.
Amercian Dad & Family Guy.
Clint Eastwood.
Route 66.
Good 'ole boys & country
:biggrin:
Guys I leave the thread for a while and I come back to mayhem lol no seriously Like Noivous has posted yet another terrorist attack even though the swine who did this wasn't part of ISIS he watched propagander material which is still so darn easy to get hold off, With all this tech in place its easy to get these videos off the internet stuff human rights and free speech on these matters. I listened to what Trump had to say on this recent attack, and sorry I totally agree with him 100% It's time to get serious now on this type of crime Cheers
There are no lone wolves in the Jihad:
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/american-attacks.aspx
Ohhh kk knight rider , The Hoff was so uncool he came all the way round to being cool , I'd say knowing these shows and films shows your age but so many have been remade I could be talking to a teenager , a talking car we'd tie it to a stake and burn it for witchcraft.
I see the latest dumb f&@k terrorists plan didn't work out , kill some innocent people then wave a fake gun and death by cop except he didn't die and go to paradise he's got to answer for what he did , they shouldn't have a shoot to kill policy it should be aim for the nuts .
Missed off spider man batman superman , what the hell would we have watched , The good life , blahhhh
Dunkelheinburger
02-11-17, 11:27
What a dumb discussion
Why was this guy carrying a paintball gun? From what I've heard there's no shortage of real guns in USA. It's also very convenient that he left notes on the scene pledging allegiance to ISIS, I'm surprised he didn't also leave his passport. This guy was from Uzbekistan, that's not a Arab country so why was the note written in Arabic? A "witness" denied that he heard suspect shout Allah u Akbar and the video footage from the scene is heavily edited.
This is a another false flag event designed to push the "clash of civilizations" narrative. It helps to continue the fake war on terrorism and also distracts attention from issues unfavourable to the goverment. That website you linked to is propaganda and is probably being run by Isrealis.
What a dumb discussion :huh: Well don't post on here then simple :D
---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------
Why was this guy carrying a paintball gun? From what I've heard there's no shortage of real guns in USA. It's also very convenient that he left notes on the scene pledging allegiance to ISIS, I'm surprised he didn't also leave his passport. This guy was from Uzbekistan, that's not a Arab country so why was the note written in Arabic? A "witness" denied that he heard suspect shout Allah u Akbar and the video footage from the scene is heavily edited.
This is a another false flag event designed to push the "clash of civilizations" narrative. It helps to continue the fake war on terrorism and also distracts attention from issues unfavourable to the goverment. That website you linked to is propaganda and is probably being run by Isrealis. You mean the religionofpeace.com site is not what it seems? This guy was from Uzbekistan ok and it's not a Arab country so what are you driving at? You only have to look at the Uk some british white people are either following in ISIS footsteps (probably through radicalisation etc) joining the troops in various countries or on our turf making bombs right now so to me it doesn't matter what country you come from more and more are joining forces of this evil ideology we aint really touched the surface in combating this evil force and it will go on for many years to come sadly. ATB
Dunkelheinburger
02-11-17, 12:24
Cheers :D
Now I see your point about evil f&@kers using whatever means they can to kill but a truck does have a purpose other than killing people where as guns have one purpose , I also can see your point about not trusting governments and keeping arms incase you need to start a rebellion, in our country a tiny minority own the vast majority of the wealth and are trying to control everything, the people vote and the rich try to reverse it if they don't like the outcome , I'm from Robin Hood county one day we'll put on our green tights and take it all back even things out a bit .
Did you see the piers Morgan gun debate ? One Englishman who most would like to shoot and the angriest pro gun American who due to his anger issues probably shouldn't have a gun , he had a fair case but someone a little calmer might have been a better choice he looked like he was going to explode .
Now it's been another sad day for you guys in the USA and I have been pulling your chain a little lately so here's a short list of the good things that the good old USA gave me growing up across the pond .
In order of appearance
Elvis ( thanks mum )
Dukes of hazard ( daisy in particular)
Jonny cash
Evil kinevel
Monster trucks
Paul Newman
Steve McQueen
BMX Bikes , se racing
The Ramones
Metallica
Nervana
Stepside trucks
Cal look Volkswagens
Baywatch
Tom hanks
Snap on tools ( bling for grease monkeys )
I'm on the fence on apple and google life was simpler before Dr Google
Point is it's not all doom gloom guns and hate there are still good people out there that don't want to kill each other .
Ta ta :)
B70! Thanks friend.
Don't forget Russ Meyer!:winks:
MyNameIsTerry
02-11-17, 17:39
Notice how this is close to 9/11 (a bit behind though)? And wasn't this near to Ground Zero? Are any WWII commemorations due?
Sounds like an anniversary attack and let's hope it isn't part of a wave of them.
I guess we will have to wait to see what they find out and whether ISIS start mouthing off about upcoming attacks again.
I saw the victims named on the news last night. It really makes you think when you hear how young they are or the kids they left behind.
Now I see your point about evil f&@kers using whatever means they can to kill but a truck does have a purpose other than killing people where as guns have one purpose , I also can see your point about not trusting governments and keeping arms incase you need to start a rebellion, in our country a tiny minority own the vast majority of the wealth and are trying to control everything, the people vote and the rich try to reverse it if they don't like the outcome , I'm from Robin Hood county one day we'll put on our green tights and take it all back even things out a bit .
Did you see the piers Morgan gun debate ? One Englishman who most would like to shoot and the angriest pro gun American who due to his anger issues probably shouldn't have a gun , he had a fair case but someone a little calmer might have been a better choice he looked like he was going to explode .
Now it's been another sad day for you guys in the USA and I have been pulling your chain a little lately so here's a short list of the good things that the good old USA gave me growing up across the pond .
In order of appearance
Elvis ( thanks mum )
Dukes of hazard ( daisy in particular)
Jonny cash
Evil kinevel
Monster trucks
Paul Newman
Steve McQueen
BMX Bikes , se racing
The Ramones
Metallica
Nervana
Stepside trucks
Cal look Volkswagens
Baywatch
Tom hanks
Snap on tools ( bling for grease monkeys )
I'm on the fence on apple and google life was simpler before Dr Google
Point is it's not all doom gloom guns and hate there are still good people out there that don't want to kill each other .
Ta ta :)
"a truck does have a purpose other than killing people where as guns have one purpose"
I understand your point about trucks and guns B70. The larger point is that no one blames trucks when this stuff happens. But to be clear guns often times keep people from getting killed. As a matter of fact on the bike path in NY it was a good guy with a gun that stopped the terrorist.
I was talking to a cop the other day and he was saying how he is all in favor of law abiding citizens having guns because he knows that if he is ever in a jam they would help him out...I know I would.
N.
"a truck does have a purpose other than killing people where as guns have one purpose"
I understand your point about trucks and guns B70. The larger point is that no one blames trucks when this stuff happens. But to be clear guns often times keep people from getting killed. As a matter of fact on the bike path in NY it was a good guy with a gun that stopped the terrorist.
I was talking to a cop the other day and he was saying how he is all in favor of law abiding citizens having guns because he knows that if he is ever in a jam they would help him out...I know I would.
N.
Hey , I know it's a different country, culture etc so is hard to compare with ours but a cop over here recently said that they don't want to be armed even with the terrorist attacks , we've had terrorists since the 70s and it only stopped with the peace talks , if a nut drives a huge truck at a crowd intent on killing and wants to die a gun is not going to stop him , trump thinks he can get tough on them but you can't argue with crazy , the new breed of terrorist are home grown , could be a neighbour you've know all your life who has converted. How many people who go on a killing spree were previously law abiding citizens beforehand , some people have never had a brush with the law and then just go out and kill or kill their own family , when a gun license is handed out they only go by the past not what you might do in the future or how you might be mentally, I'm certainly not the same person I used to be people change .
I don't think there is an answer to it humankind is pretty f&@ked up maybe keep guns and ban religion?
A film quote springs to mind " there are sheep, wolves and shepherds " something to that effect we need shepherds to protect us from the wolves .
Not wanting to end on a negative so , heeeyyy ! Happy days , The fonz :yesyes:
Actually a gun might stop him...or at least keep him from killing more people.
To answer your question as to how many terrorists were law abiding citizens...I'd say not many.
How many drivers licenses are handed out to people who seem perfectly fine then go out and kill someone with their car? We gotta stop blaming things and start blaming people. You can destroy every gun on the earth and murders will still be committed on a mass scale. In fact the biggest mass murders aren't by guns at all.
If you discounted all the murders by guns from the four largest cities (btw which were committed by illegal guns by about 99%) in the US murders by guns would not be in the top 5 methods of murder.
It's a very complicated issue and has more to do with sociology than guns.
---------- Post added at 00:31 ---------- Previous post was at 00:26 ----------
Ok...Happy Days. Good for two seasons then got really weird. Martians and jumpimg sharks.
Looks like Harvey Weinstein is in deep shit. Along with Kevin Spacey.
Chickens coming home to roost? Could be. The absolute filth that Hollyweird has been pumping out for years is finally coming to fruition. It's about time.
MyNameIsTerry
04-11-17, 04:30
The point is:
- guns were created to kill. That's it. They have been used as deterrents, for protection, to save lives, etc but the point holds that they were conceived to rip the party apart & kill. It doesn't matter if I spread my butter on my sarnie with a double-headed war axe, the impliment was still created to rend flesh.
- trucks were created to improve our lives through lugging stuff around and cutting out the horse & cart, barge, etc.
- toasters were created to burn bread.
I could kill you with all of them. But out of them how can they be considered the same as guns?
Guns are used for hunting. Most human beings hunt with a shopping trolley & credit card. Hunters hunt for vain reasons and I completely disagree with killing animals for sport.
Guns are used to ensure a government doesn't go bonkers in the US to preserve each state. A deterrent. Then we could give each state a nuclear weapon each. Stalemate. But if the state needs to protect itself then why can't they have gun points? Why do guns need to be in people's homes? Why not locked points only authorised to open by a state official in times of war?
Sport shooting. Keep them in gun clubs. Don't we do that here? I know we do with .50 calibre shooting.
Sport shooters & hunters get more freedom to do what they want but is that a worthwhile trade off against a society with less gun crime? (and by this I mean in the future when illegal guns have been removed or drastically reduced).
Defence. The legitimate reason for possession. Not that you need 30 guns for that. Until a society has reached a certain point with removing weapons from criminals, citizens may need to protect themselves. This one is really tricky because at what point do you start removing the legal guns for protection?
I could go on a rampage with a kitchen knife and kill a lot of people before the police finally got there. But how will we cut up out foods if we ban them?
In the UK we don't need guns outside of a number of police units and the military. We have some shotgun owners and that's about it. We still have gun crime with illegal weapons but it won't be anywhere any society with legal guns. Our problems are more knife crime and have been for some decades now.
Knifes in the UK are an area where we look stupid. We have a knife amnesty now & again. I never understood why when you could just dump them in any canal or waterway and job done. And I could purchase 30 knives online to tomorrow. I've purchased some knives for various reasons and the only checks are age & address, I saw no mention of quantity issues. Whether they inform the police, I'm not sure (like how they do with high gambling payouts as a mate of mine found out when he won over £10k and the rozzers knocked him up one morning).
The issue is always people, it always will be. But there are times when you have to consider whether it's worthwhile to live with freedoms at the cost of problems like this. And how useful is the item in question? For me, guns don't figure as we just don't need them. But again it's back to people because there is this Amendment issue. When our guns were clamped down on I don't remember people complaining about the need to fend off a rogue government. Our countries differ in our attitudes and that is one of them.
---------- Post added at 04:12 ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 ----------
And I should also mention our other issue, sport shooting of live animals. And hunting which I was sad to see being proposed to make a come back.
There is no possible justification for a bunch of la di da's shooting birds for fun. If mothr nature could evolve these birds to come equiped posh nobhead seeking missiles it would be a good thing and most of us would be cheering at them getting taking out by an Incontinent Class of Bigheaded Nobs (ICBN).
That includes the lovely Wills & Kate who are fine with it in the UK but have a problem with fluffy orphaned animals when it suits them whilst condoning shooting their parents by some rich white bloke for kicks.
---------- Post added at 04:30 ---------- Previous post was at 04:12 ----------
Ok...Happy Days. Good for two seasons then got really weird. Martians and jumpimg sharks.
Looks like Harvey Weinstein is in deep shit. Along with Kevin Spacey.
Chickens coming home to roost? Could be. The absolute filth that Hollyweird has been pumping out for years is finally coming to fruition. It's about time.
Yeah, and you can bet it won't stop once the door is opened. Our historic sex abuse cases started a few back and it exploded to cover politicians, gentry, etc. And in the last week the latest scandal of abuse, including rape, at Westminster with MP's and other staff.
Spacey seems to be using his case as a way to come out. Did anyone really not already know? I've seen him accused of using his sexuality to divert away from the fact he has an accuser who was 14 at the time which brings paedophilia into the story. :ohmy:
I expect you will also get a load of cases where people put their careers first too and now look for some retrospective payback or just to get their profiles raised (many celebs don't seem to have many morals when it comes to getting in the mags).
One massive issue is social media here. Mud sticks and how can you prove either way in many of these cases? You can accuse anyone on the internet and they get descended on by trolls & people who are taken in. There are obviously all the legitimate cases too but I wonder how many may use it to slur. It doesn't matter that there is no proof and you put up a statement about your innocence as "no smoke without fire" will always be in the minds of many. This issue has been under debate about actual criminal cases and how naming someone who is later acquitted can still wreck their lives. Trial by Twitter, bring your own pitchfork.
Cliff Richard springs to mind. The police tipping the media off so they could film his house being raided after an accusation from many years ago and years on he is cleared due to lack of evidence. But how many will think he did it regardless as lack of evidence isn't not guilty?
What is this about Dustin Hoffman? :ohmy: And can he use Mrs Robinson as a getout by claiming it traumatised him into being an abuser :winks:
As I've said on these boards before I'm for banning ALL guns. Either anyone (law abiding citizens) can have guns or no one can have guns...and that means no one. Alcohol has no positive benefit to society and takes far more lives than guns do. Where's the outrage? Do you realize how much better off society would be without alcohol? Not only does alcohol kill thousands and thousands yearly it causes spousal and child abuse and all sorts of other mayhem. And just saying well it's part of our culture aint good enough. People are dying from it. I might even argue that some feel the need to own a firearm because they fear a threat from a raging alcoholic. And if we got rid of alcohol all methods of murders would decrease including those committed by a gun. Have you ever seen someone die from cirrhosis of the liver? It's not pretty.
Guns are made to protect and deter. Some misuse them as some misuse trucks, knives, baseball bats, jet liners, anti freeze, rope, pitbulls, hammers, wood chippers, chainsaws, bottles...minds and hands.
N.
---------- Post added at 09:40 ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 ----------
One thing about the Kevin Spacey thing. A homosexual preying on adolescent males is not a paedophile. A paedophile is someone who preys on very young children...prepubescent. The homosexual lobby wants and tries to label the Kevin Spacey's of the world paedophiles because of the political and societal backlash they fear. They did it with Catholic priests who were preying on adolescent males...to great success I might add. Spacey's behavior if true is disgusting and illegal but not paedophilia. He's a homosexual.
Noivous I completely get you on what you say there is no getting out of it Guns Kill full stop we live in very dark times where everything seem to be blighted even the internet is blighted big time you only have to look at the dark web and SN sites springs to mind.
Don't get me started on Kevin Spacey no sorry I disagree he is a sexual predator especially as he was accused of assault on a 14 year old boy (who by no means is a adult) It's a world I don't want to live in really but have no choice Thanks for your comments :) ATB
I didn't say Spacey wasn't a predator BBUK. Please re-read my post to understand the point. A sexual predator who preys on a 14 year old boy or girl is not a pedophile...neither clinically or legally. What if a 17 year old boy has sex with a 14 year old girl? Would you say he's a pedophile?
And this is absolutely no defense of Kevin Spacey (the guy's a scumbag puke based on what he's admitted) but let's convict before we convict.
N.
I didn't say Spacey wasn't a predator BBUK. Please re-read my post to understand the point. A sexual predator who preys on a 14 year old boy or girl is not a pedophile...neither clinically or legally. What if a 17 year old boy has sex with a 14 year old girl? Would you say he's a pedophile?
And this is absolutely no defense of Kevin Spacey (the guy's a scumbag puke based on what he's admitted) but let's convict before we convict.
N.Sure I do understand Noivous, but some people would label him as a pedo no consent from the 14 year old either, I guess it's a grey area in some ways so at what age would it be classed as a pedophile? People have different opinions on this but what does the law say? I would say it's bordering on that though. ATB
Yes I agree and so does the law btw a 14 year old is not an adult and that's why there are laws of consent.
Yes I agree and so does the law btw a 14 year old is not an adult and that's why there are laws of consent. So these laws of consent (if Iam right) means if the 14 yo said it was ok there would be nothing illegal about it, I hope iam wrong on this cause that doesn't sound right to me. ATB
Paedophilia by definition is someone who preys on prepubescent children. A 15 year old could be a pedophile. I actually was trying to make a point on the homosexual lobby and how they twist the narrative on these cases. A very creepy discussion though huh? The whole thing gives me the heebee geebee's.
---------- Post added at 12:57 ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 ----------
No the law of consent means anyone under a certain age CAN'T give consent even if they want to. Usually around 17 years old.
Paedophilia by definition is someone who preys on prepubescent children. A 15 year old could be a pedophile. I actually was trying to make a point on the homosexual lobby and how they twist the narrative on these cases. A very creepy discussion though huh? The whole thing gives me the heebee geebee's.
---------- Post added at 12:57 ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 ----------
No the law of consent means anyone under a certain age CAN'T give consent even if they want to. Usually around 17 years old. Ahh yes and that's the way it should be really :) Yes these lobbists well they are actually not making matters any better are they? Creepy in some aspects yes ATB
MyNameIsTerry
04-11-17, 13:24
When I said paedophile it is because we commonly associate any abuse of an underage person as one. The exact definition is different which I'm well aware of. But a child is a still a child and Spacey was an adult.
This doesn't define him as an adult homosexual. It may define him a having an option or preferred philia as well.
Whatever lobby can try to define him to distance themselves but he's still a child abuser, if guilty. Over here that means prison and the sex offenders register with post prison terms to keep him away from all children.
A 17 year old over here is not classed as a child in terms of sexual behaviour because our age of consent is 16. Whilst the court will take this into account, it would still be an offence. But an older person would be having the book thrown at them and sexuality would mean nothing as it's sexual abuse ranging up to rape.
As I've said on these boards before I'm for banning ALL guns. Either anyone (law abiding citizens) can have guns or no one can have guns...and that means no one. Alcohol has no positive benefit to society and takes far more lives than guns do. Where's the outrage? Do you realize how much better off society would be without alcohol? Not only does alcohol kill thousands and thousands yearly it causes spousal and child abuse and all sorts of other mayhem. And just saying well it's part of our culture aint good enough. People are dying from it. I might even argue that some feel the need to own a firearm because they fear a threat from a raging alcoholic. And if we got rid of alcohol all methods of murders would decrease including those committed by a gun. Have you ever seen someone die from cirrhosis of the liver? It's not pretty.
Guns are made to protect and deter. Some misuse them as some misuse trucks, knives, baseball bats, jet liners, anti freeze, rope, pitbulls, hammers, wood chippers, chainsaws, bottles...minds and hands.
N.
---------- Post added at 09:40 ---------- Previous post was at 09:27 ----------
One thing about the Kevin Spacey thing. A homosexual preying on adolescent males is not a paedophile. A paedophile is someone who preys on very young children...prepubescent. The homosexual lobby wants and tries to label the Kevin Spacey's of the world paedophiles because of the political and societal backlash they fear. They did it with Catholic priests who were preying on adolescent males...to great success I might add. Spacey's behavior if true is disgusting and illegal but not paedophilia. He's a homosexual.
I suppose it is the same argument for guns and alcohol, not everyone who has a drink turns into a raging alcoholic some just enjoy a drink and don't go to the extreme of getting smashed you can't ban it for all because some abuse it .
Maybe we get the edited version but does Trump ever say anything that's not inflammatory? Going to Japan and saying look what happened when people messed with us in the past , he does seem trigger happy on a global scale .
I'm not sure spacey's defence of being gay and it's ok he was 14 would hold much water in jail , over here they are known as beasts and nonses and in jail they get boiling water thrown over them , I'm pretty sure prisoners over there have similar system .
Sorry to see you've had another shooting and I do mean that .
Oh nearly ended on doom and gloom so edit end . Banana splits , tra la la
MyNameIsTerry
06-11-17, 02:58
I'm not sure spacey's defence of being gay and it's ok he was 14 would hold much water in jail , over here they are known as beasts and nonses and in jail they get boiling water thrown over them , I'm pretty sure prisoners over there have similar system
The thing is, 14 now but maybe 10 next time and 5 after that? There are different definitions for age ranges but there is always that question of whether it only ends at one age group and given how broad they can be, it's little better than being the defined paedophile in som cases.
And that actor looked pretty young, he wasn't a case of looking older (not that it would matter as Spacey would have known him).
Being gay means nothing. If it did, it would excuse any hetero from child abuse too. But people seem to be angry that he is finally coming out off the back off the allegation, which seems like a way to divert attention away.
Actually I agree with you about Spacey, He may very well be a pedophile, Terry. But my larger point was about the powerful homosexual lobby twisting the narrative.
Certainly any adult preying on a 14 year deserves everything the law will allow and bears watching.
When I was a kid in my teens a friend of mine who was 17 at the time got caught quite literally with his pants down with a 14 year old girl. She was built like Rosina Revelle and knew more about sex than either me or my friend combined. Well the case was eventually booted but not before charges of child rape and thousands of dollars in legal fees paid. There was a very good chance my pal was looking at some very real prison time. So each case is different and people need to be careful before labeling a person this or that certainly before the facts come out but also using the correct terms when doing so.
btw my old friend has been happily married for years and has 4 children now...all girls!
N.
MyNameIsTerry
06-11-17, 17:08
It catches people out here too if you have a girl that looks closer to 18. Some will shout paedo then too but most look at the picture and see how mistakes can be made.
Then you have a couple at 15 and one turns 16.
It's a matter of the CPS deciding what is in the interests of the public. An adult will always face prosecution but two kids on the cusp, I doubt.
Yes, definitely it must be individual. I hate this trial by Twitter stuff too. Mud sticks and it mat not be long before we see cases that are dubious. If people are willing to go to court with false cases they won't think twice about a Tweet.
and right on cue in regards to adults having sex with children from the most left-wing lunatic state in the United States, Massachusetts.
http://newbostonpost.com/2017/11/01/massachusetts-senate-gutting-statutory-rape-key-legislator-says-no-but-family-advocate-wary-of-bill/
MyNameIsTerry
07-11-17, 01:45
and right on cue in regards to adults having sex with children from the most left-wing lunatic state in the United States, Massachusetts.
http://newbostonpost.com/2017/11/01/massachusetts-senate-gutting-statutory-rape-key-legislator-says-no-but-family-advocate-wary-of-bill/
Isn't this just about someone cocking up a wording? Or do you mean they tried to sneak it through intentionally leaving a loophole?
A bit of common sense would mean a term that "penetrative act" would mean no squabbling??? Save you guys some bucks with bureaucrats needing several meetings about a couple of words. :winks:
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